The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Celtics/Warriors Finals GM 2 Reaction

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

Colin and Hoops Tonight  and Lakers Tonight Podcast host Jason Timpf react to the Warriors bouncing back with a convincing Game 2 win over the Celtics to even the NBA Finals at 1-1 (3:00). They also look ahead as the series heads to Boston for Game 3, and discuss, and if the Jazz need to trade Donovan Mitchell to re-shape their roster (23:00), and what moves the Lakers can make to improve their roster before next year (34:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer,

Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The Volume. Colin Coward Podcasts presented by Fandual Sportsbook. No better place to bet the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. There's a lot of reasons. It's America's number one sports book, incredibly easy to use, super safe, totally secure, super fast, payouts in as quick as two hours. You're not going to get that anywhere. Also, same game parlay bets, live betting. It's the best. Hey, if you're new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app.

I did it in 15 seconds. Get started now. Sign up. Please use the promo code Colin so they know we sent you. Please use the promo code Colin, C-O-L-I-N. Fan dual sportsbook app, sign up. And welcome in everybody. The man alongside me is Jason Timp, who is amazing. He does hoops tonight. for the volume and go into our little foray for the next 30 minutes or so. That was obviously not resembling game one in the second half. You know, it was interesting as I'll just give you kind of my minute spiel on this. So as I watched the first half, once again, the refs were allowing a lot of physical play, which I do think bodes well for the Celtics over the long haul.

But as I was watching the first half, I was saying, listen, if Jordan Poole and Clay Thompson aren't going to be here offensively in this series. You can't, you can't ask, you know, Steph to be the shotmaker because you're not getting anything from Draymon or Looney. Somebody's got to give Steph some help. And then in the second half, Jordan Pool delivers. I think Clay played pretty good defensive basketball. He's okay. He was fine. But I thought you saw a huge pullback on Marcus Smart offensively, Al Horford. And this should be noted. This is something we talk about. When Marcus Smart, he's shoots like he averages 20 a game. He's a very confident guy. But you only get that about every fourth game from him. Whereas Tatum, staff, there's some offensive leaning players in the series. Marcus

isn't. And tonight was below his usual standard, but he has a lot of nights like this. You're going to get three of these in the series where he's just not going to hit shots. And then it becomes very Jalen Brown-Tatem Reliant. They missed a lot of closer shots. And because of that, you know, the game gets out of hand. If you're the Celtics, though, there's a couple of things here. They're going to let the guys play. That's going to be, I think, over time and advantage to the Celtics. The second thing that jumps out to me is that's about as bad as Boston can play.

They're hard to blow out because they play such good defense. So you know they didn't play Robert Williams much, Jason. So they made a decision pretty early as we're just going to get him healthy. Assignment done. we got a split. We're not going to play Robert Williams a ton. So I think you're going to get a very spirited effort by Boston in game three. You know, what was so interesting is through three halves,

you could get this feeling like the game was just easier for Boston. And a huge part of it was that physicality you're talking about. So, you know, a lot of times people focus on interior size, but I would argue in this era of NBA basketball that, perimeter size is actually the most important element in the game. The reason why is more than ever, it's become important to cover ground, especially in rotation. So getting bigger athletes that are running around on the perimeter, they just take bigger steps. Like, guess what? If Jalen Brown is closing out on a shooter, it's just different than if that's Jordan Poole or Clay Thompson closing

out on a shooter. They're bigger, they're stronger. You've been big on this since game one. The physicality. If, you know, hand checkings allowed both ways in this series. If you watch, it's hilarious how much fouling is taking place. There's a play in the first quarter. Oh, no, it's incredible. Around the basket, they're letting everything go. Yeah, it's outrageous.

There was a fade away that Jalen Brown took over the top of Draymond Green at the foul line. And they showed it on replay. And Jeff Ann Gundy's like, look at this amazing defense from Draymond. I'm like, he fouled him six times on that possession. But it's like, I'm not mad about it because it's happening with everybody. And, you know, that dynamic through three halves was leaning heavily towards Boston. And so what was really interesting and I thought was really smart, I think it's probably Steve Kerr that kind of picked up on this.

And he has been, I think, in all likelihood, the best halftime adjustments guy in this playoff field. I think when you hear things like, oh, who's the better third quarter team? The better third quarter team, that usually comes down to coaching, that comes down to a coach that can identify where you're, issues were in the first half, explain what needs to be done, and then they go out and execute. And I think Kerr understood, as is a very interesting psychological phenomenon that takes place with NBA officiating, the team that's at a disadvantage, whether it's on the scoreboard

or in the series, is just going to get more leeway with officiating. Because that's just, it's just human nature. I'm with you, Colin, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I don't believe anything's rigged. But I do think that naturally officiating gears towards the team that's at a disadvantage. I think Kerr came out at half time and was like, I need you guys to beat them up back because they're going to let you because you're at a disadvantage. And they picked up that physicality in that third quarter. And all of a sudden, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum weren't getting the dribble penetration that they were getting earlier. All of a sudden, they had a dominant quarter that was very similar to what Boston did to them in the fourth quarter of game one. And next thing you

know, the series is tied. Even though you were probably the worst team for three of the halves to this point, just like that, you needed something to tip the dynamic and you hit the nail on the head with Jordan Poole. This Golden State team desperately needed somebody to step up offensively because it was looking like Steph at the top and then like four Boston Celtics and then maybe Jordan Poole after that, they needed somebody to shift that dynamic. And today was Jordan Poole. And Clay Thompson, even though he didn't have a massive scoring night, I thought he hit some big shots to start the third quarter that kind of just loosened things up a little bit for them. Yeah, and I think Clay always gives you like a really smart defensive effort.

He's got his hands in the right places. Listen, both these teams, I mean, Wiggins missed about six chippies. Clay missed three. Boston missed 20. It was not an artistic masterpiece. Most of the runs were on outside shots. I was like you. After six quarters, I thought to myself, well,

Boston's four best players are all in their prime. Warriors' four best players are all out of it. It's something. It's not everything. It's something. Boston looks a little twitchier and a little quicker. You know, I think game three, I think you're going to get more Robert Williams. I really do think the Celtics came in here thinking, and listen, let's just see how it goes.

The minute it got out of hand, we're not going to, just not worry about Robert Williams. just Al Horford, let's get him out of there, Robert Williams. So I'm interested to see the line in game three because I would favor the Celtics. But here's something now, Jason. So, you know, when you go on the road, Boston has been a team when they're favored like game six against Miami, they get tight. So now we go home and we all expect them to play great. they're five and four at home. I think it's their last nine games, like five and four at home.

So whereas tonight, in these first six quarters, it's a little bit of house money. There's not a lot of pressure. They're the underdog. It's at Chase. They tend to play really well and tough and scrappy as underdogs.

Now they go home and we're like, oh, they were just humiliated. This is their game. They're not yet to me, nearly as comfortable. Golden State's very comfortable, sometimes too comfortable as a favorite. They get sloppy and smug. Golden State, Boston gets tight. They get a little tight. And this is by, you know, we both know this. That's what young teams do. Until you've got the title, you're not something until you are. So I'm really interested to kind

of see Boston now has home court, just got humiliated. Now they have to. to be they have to perform great and uh now i think the series really gets interesting now it to me it really gets interesting and i i still lean slightly golden state but if the refs allow this and i said this after game one if robert williams plays in six games and the refs allow this it's a coin flip to me it really is i feel like if boston plays a certain way they're going to win this series. The question for me is whether or not they're going to play that way. You know, what I call it is it's like, if you ever heard this expression, Colin, it's like being allergic to success. And it's just the kind of personality or the kind of groups or the kind

of teams where when they're having success, they struggle to identify what's causing the success. So for instance, Jason Tatum tonight. You know, Jason Tatum had a nightmare shooting night in game one. But I thought he played better basketball in game one. Because as much as he missed shots, he was engaged in physical and a defense event. And most importantly, he understood that his role on this team with the way that Golden State is guarding them is to create the initial advantage. And the way that that manifested was 13 assists. And I believe he only had three assists tonight. He was minus 36. It didn't play in the fourth quarter, which is an outrageous number. But it's again, it's because Tatum looked at it as like, I need to get going as a score in game two.

Whereas the reality was, is like, actually they were winning, even though if you just take that same set of shots you took, maybe you make a couple more great, but you need to do exactly what you did in game one. That's what I mean by allergic to success. It's like you're failing to understand that the reason why you had the advantage to begin with is the Celtics were getting into their drive and kick game and getting wide open shots out of them. that but there was nowhere near and jalen brown had a rough night tonight so it was even more important for tatum to be the guy that could be that consistent force but it's like and then the other issue too here Colin is like it's it's almost like the the the problem with being too talented as a skilled

basketball player where it's like you could see tatum take these incredibly difficult jump shots like sidestep jump shots step back jump shots turn around jump shots and it's the curse of being as talented as he is because that counts as settling, essentially meaning like you understand you have a physical advantage against somebody and you could physically press that advantage and get a high quality shot, but you also work a lot this summer on this nifty little step back. And it looks pretty when it goes in and you know you can make it. And so you're staring at the guy and you're like, I could just take this step back. It'll be easier on my legs.

Maybe it'll go in. And that to me is an example of that, the burden of almost too much talent. Like he got away from what was working for him in game one, which was sloth. flashing, getting into the paint, collapsing the defense, and getting everybody else going. I almost feel if Jalen Brown had Jason Tatum's offensive talent and Tatum had Jalen Brown's confidence, you'd have two stars. I think Jalen thinks he's a little better than he is, and Jason doesn't know how good he is. And so, you know, like there are nights that Jalen's off.

And I just want to say pull back, but that's not who he is. He's super athletic. he just he believes he can score anybody. Tatum's gifted, but you can see it. We talked about this after game one. If Jason misses a couple shots, has a couple of bad times down the floor, he's much more willing to get rid of it. He's just not going to shoot through it. And that's just his personality. A couple other things that jumped out to me is I did think the Warriors got the whistle in the first half. You know, it's going to weigh it's going to work. The other thing, though, if you're Boston, that you have to feel pretty good.

So if you watch the Celtics enough, they have these six-minute lulls, even on good nights. And they had one tonight. But at one point, they had it. And then they corrected, and they took the lead. It was in the first half. And I'm like, wow. Like, that's trouble for the Warriors.

The problem is they had a second one in the third quarter. And you're like, you can't have two of those against the Warriors. But the thing that I think, well for Boston is when they have these six and seven minute lulls, and the warriors don't always have them. But the warriors usually have them when they're motion. They don't move enough. They get very ISO, and that's when the warriors are in trouble. And they're very talented. So sometimes they just get into watching stuff. But the Celtics get into this because if Tatum's not hitting, it's not a beautiful offensive team. Tonight they had two or three long

stretches, but they usually don't. And I'll go back to this. In that first half, when they had a six and a half minute lull, it didn't do much, they were down like eight, nine, and they got right back into it with a couple threes. They're not going to be this bad. This is the worst Boston's going to play. This will not happen again, and Jordan Poole is not going to hit 38

footers again. So I think my comp, if I look at the eight quarters played, take out the fourth quarter of game one for the Celtics. take out the third quarter of game two for the Warriors. And my takeaway is something you said. I think Horford's better than he was tonight. I think we're pretty even on shot makers. Unless Clay goes to the next level,

they both have about three or four guys that can make shots. And I think, will Robert Williams remain healthy? Draymond doesn't get another technical. like I think we're going to have a really close series. Takeout, tonight's third, and game one's fourth. It's a pretty good matchup. You've got shot makers, both play really good defense, both have a star. My only tweak on the series is, I think it may go seven.

Yeah, I mean, it's exactly what we hoped this series would be. Like, finally two teams to where, if they don't bring their best effort, they're going to get their butt kicked because you're playing against the team that's actually at your level. I thought I'm with you. If you're a Boston fan tonight, and I'm with you, I'm not ready to jump off my Golden State pick. I was on Golden State in seven. And because I predicted this exact phenomenon, the Jekyll and Hyde Boston thing. When they, when they look good, it looks like other teams are just completely swallowed up by their athleticism and their ability to play both ends of the floor. But then when they get sloppy on

offense, they go through stretches where they look like they literally don't know what they're doing on offense. And then, you know, I thought this was a textbook game from Golden State, too, where they controlled all of the, all of the little details of basketball games that are all factored into what makes a good team. Like, for instance, they took better care of the basketball than Boston. Boston had 19 turnovers. The Warriors scored 33 points on those turnovers. Again, Colin, like, when you turn the basketball over and you don't give your defense a chance to get set, there's just a huge difference trying to get a stop against the team that's running at you when you are not set versus when you've scored the basketball or you've got a quality

shot and your defense was set so that now they can come down and they don't have an initial advantage. When you get a team like Boston in the half court is going to have a big advantage in this series because of their physicality because of their size. But if you can as Golden State get a third of your offense just by running up and down the floor for layups and wide open threes when they're throwing the ball away, you're going to have your opportunities there. But I'm with you. If you're Boston like you're going to go home in game three. They're three and a half point favorites right now in Fandul. I expect them to play. Okay. So the Celtics are three and a half point favorites? Yes. And so the way I'm looking at that is I think that to your point, Boston's not

riding high anymore. They just got their butt kicked. You know they're going to come in and play with intensity and with focus. You know, Tatum and Brown are going to bring it. I wouldn't be surprised at Boston won big in game three. But then it's like, we're going to be sitting here having a conversation. And it's going to be like, what are you expecting game four? I expect Boston to come out flat. Because they've done that time and time and time again throughout this playoff run. I thought just in general, them of Golden State flipping that physicality dynamic was it was very good for them in that second half. But for the series, in all likelihood, that's an advantage that will stay in Boston's corner.

If I'm hand-checking you and I have an extra 20 pounds on muscle on you, my hand-checks are going to do a better job of holding you in your spot than if you're skinnier and smaller than me and I'm driving on you. Even if you got your hands on me, I'm going to blow right through that. So I think over the course of the series, that advantage favors Boston. But kudos to Golden State for flipping it on them tonight. The NBA finals are here and so is your chance to score big on Fandall Sportsbook. Throughout the finals, Fandals giving new customers, $200 in free bets. $200 bucks, free bets, guarantee when you place your first $5 bet. Bet the money line, point spreads, player props.

Just sign up. The promo code is always Colin. That's me, C-O-L-I-N. If you haven't tried Fandul, now's the perfect time. Give it a shot. The only thing sweeter

than watching the finals is cashing in on the action. Join today, promo code Colin. Turn a $5 bet into $200 in free bets. Win or lose. Make every game feel like game seven with

FanDuel Sportsbook. FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. 21 plus and present in Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Indiana, and Louisiana. Permitted parishes only. Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, Virginia, or West Virginia. First online, real money wager only. Refundit refund issued as non-withdrawable site credit that expires in 14 days.

Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. Gambling problem, 1-800 next step or text next step to 5334-2-Arizona, 1888-9-7-7-77-7-7-7-7. Or visit catt. Connecticut, 100, gambler, or visit fandul. com slash RG and Colorado, Indiana, Jersey, and Virginia. 1-7-7-0.

stop in Louisiana, 1,800-2707-1-1-7 for confidential help in Michigan, 1877, H-O-E-N-Y, or text, H-O-P-E-N-Y-4-6-6-9-9-N-N-N-N-E-ROTE, LESE, 8-9-9-T-C, visit 1-800-Gambler. Gambler.net in West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. If you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different. intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Yeah, I thought if you're a warrior fan, you have to feel good about Jordan Poole because he was completely ineffective in game one and mostly ineffective.

of both sides of the floor in game two in the first half. And as we started this, I said, this can't be just Steph. Like, Clay's not what he was. He's just not getting as good a looks. He just, he doesn't, his, his movement's a little off. You know, two big injuries. It's a little off. Not quite as quick.

But he's always been a guy that shoots, you know, Clay is funny. Van Gunny was kind of criticism, criticizing him tonight for some of his shots. But Clay has got a lot of. leaners. You know, he doesn't create a shot as well as like Steph or maybe a Tatum. So some of the shots are just ugly. He does a lot of leaners and a lot of them go in. But there, Jordan Poole's not going to hit as much as he hit tonight. They're going to need Jordan pool to not freeze in the headlights in Boston because this defense and you saw it, you've seen it in probably, you know, of the eight quarters, you've probably seen it in five to

five and a half to maybe six of them, they're making Boston take some off-balance, hurried shots. There's a reason the Warriors are missing some gimmies when you have to hurry. Some of those with Wiggins, he's contested. He's got a hand in his face. So, you know, you can just say the Warriors are missing gimmies, but that's the reality of it.

And for the record, Boston missing gimmies too, because Looney's a presence defensively and Draymond's a presence. So I didn't think either team, both left about 20 points on the table on little chippy stuff inside. But, you know, I think you and I both agree to long series. I do want to, and again, I want to remind people, please subscribe to our channel here. See it off to your right, I think it is. Maybe at your left. Subscribe to the volume sports.

Here during the finals, we've gone live. We haven't already done that before, but we just want to give you the most urgent. thoughtful stuff that Jason and I think of immediately after the game. I did want to touch on one thing. Quinn Snyder, and Brad Stevens did this in Boston. He lost the locker room. He said, you know, certain guys are turning me out. And he went upstairs and made the Al Horford trade, right?

Good trade. Derek White move. Quinn Snyder, I think, looked at this. Rudy Gober and Donovan Mitchell don't get along. It's the worst kept secret in the world. And Snyder's a really good coach. I think he coached Missouri seven years. They had a winning record every year.

He had a winning record in the tournament. You know, after the first couple of years, he took over a rocky situation with the jazz. He's had a great record, number one record in the West, one or two years. He'll get a job. He'll get a pick his assignment. He's got young kids. You know, he's not going to quit working, and a lot of people like him. And I think he'll sit back for a year and kind of pick the job he wants.

He's very well respected, super cerebral guy. But it's interesting because I, do think Donovan Mitchell's a great, to me, is a great two. He's a willing defender, though not a great one. When he went to Louisville, actually, he told me with Petino, he came as a defensive guy. Like, Patino made him play defense. And now he's become a very, an abundant offensive player. But I think wherever he goes, you know, the Knicks may try to make him a one. I think he's better as a two. But how do you see the Utah situation? Because to me, it feels like, listen, it's almost as good as they've been, it feels like a little bit of a

reboot. That's what it feels like to me is that like when Mitchell and Gobert do not get along, Quinn's like, I'm out. It's a sign. You know, not that they're waving the white flag here a little bit, but it is sort of a, all right, the coach is out, the stars hate each other. What do you think happens with Utah and Donovan Mitchell? So it's super interesting. You said Donovan Mitchell's a number two. A huge part of that is he, to me, qualifies as a number two. It's a reason why a guy like Devin Booker falls into that camp for me is if you can't be a reliable offensive fulcrum, meaning the guy who has to make the majority of the decisions on every single possession, both guys like Devin Booker, guys like Donovan Mitchell are way

too volatile as playmakers. Donovan Mitchell is a lot closer to like almost like a Russell Westbrook with his shot selection and his approach every trip down the floor. He obviously, he's obviously a different type of player in a lot of different ways, but his approach to the game, He never sees a shot he doesn't like. He doesn't understand the flow of a game. He's not good at keeping his teammates involved. He's a big part of why Rudy Gobert wasn't able to punish mismatches under the rim

over the course the last couple of years. So there's a lot of issues there. The issue to me, in terms of moving forward with Utah, is which guy do you trade? Because the easy answer is like, oh, you move Gober. Donovan Mitchell looks like a star. The fans love him there. That's all great.

The issue is, I am worried about Rudy's trade value because he's so bad offensively. of the criticism of him on defense is completely wrong. Like it's more of a Twitter meme than it is a real thing that's happening on the court. He is a phenomenal defensive player in every facet of defense. If anybody tells you something differently, they don't know what they're talking about. The issue is, is he's a offensive liability. You can't punish mismatches. He's basically Clint Capella on offense. And he makes like $47 million five years from now. So that's the issue. It's like I'd like to say you rebuild around Donovan Mitchell, but I don't know how you trade

go bear what are you going to get for him probably bad contracts in return and so i i know it sounds crazy but what i would look at and i jazz fans don't want to hear this but i i think donovan mitchell is closer to a russell westbrook type of personality than to like a john morant someone i'd feel really comfortable with my franchise moving forward he's shown zero commitment to defense exactly he's donovan mitchell hasn't even like he's if anything he's completely like go with the defensive rope since he was in college. He has trade value. So I would be targeting someone like Toronto, someone that needs offense. And I'd be like, hey, what can I get for Donovan Mitchell? Can I get Pascal Seaccom? Can I get Pascal Seaccom and maybe one other really good wing? Because then what I'm

looking at if I'm Utah is like, what if I had Rudy Gobert with good defensive players? Because Rudy Gobert has carried a terrible defensive roster year in and year out for the last half decade. Can you imagine that guy with real defensive wings? That would be the approach that I would go. I just think that's a quicker path to a quick rebuild that shuffles the culture and has them playing better, as opposed to trying to trade a bad contract and Rudy Gobert. And again, it's Donovan Mitchell's trade value. You just have more options there.

Yeah, it's a really well-run franchise. Donovan's, I mean, listen, Westbrook has moved multiple times. So I do think Donovan has some Westbrook tendencies. I trust him more taking a jumper. I've met him before and I really like him. I give him a little bit of a pass because I don't know, he and Gobert just, you know, after that COVID thing, it's just disintegrated.

He just doesn't, he won't pass to him. Like, he just won't. So, I mean, listen, I've always had this theory in the NBA. you can't win a championship with an awful contract. Donovan is going to make a lot of money, but there are some offensive gifts. Gobert's contract is, at the end, awful. I mean, it's just awful, so I would move probably Rudy.

And I also think there's an argument to be made with the Dallas Mavericks. See, I've argued this for years. Steff's never going to be a great defensive player. Own it. And then surround him with twitchy athletes. Luca, we're four years in. when I was four years into my career in this business, I've gotten better, but there were certain things that I did well.

I still do well. There are certain limitations. Four years in the NBA, I know what you are. Luca's never going to be an elite defensive player. So surround him, and Jalen Brunson, if you resign him, he's tiny. So like, to me, Gobert makes sense there. Just get a rim protector because people are getting by Jalen and they're getting by Luca. and, you know, that one makes a little bit of sense to me.

I think I'd probably try to keep Donovan and work around him. Listen, the tougher situation to be in is the Lakers where you've got two big problems. Westbrook is toxic and has no self-awareness and is way out of his prime. At least Donovan Mitchell's kind of in his prime. So Westbrook's out of his prime, toxic, and it just doesn't get it. And I was told yesterday by somebody around the Lakers that it's worse than you think. Okay. So the organization is just like, oh, it's bad.

The other problem you have is not just that Anthony Davis has always heard. Anthony doesn't work terribly hard. And that's just guys do or they don't. You're either Russell Wilson, Brady, LeBron, where you're just possessed by it or you're not. and there's there's I say this all the time there's a lot of things you can coach you can't coach indifference you just can't so anyway that's my two big takeaways you do hoops tonight on the lakers give me give me your thumbnail on again to our audience on what to do if you're the GM of the lakers and I said okay you get two big moves what would they be oh that's interesting okay so first of all

Flipper us role players. And then learn from what I always tell I always say on my show. Learn from what is working in this playoff round. If you're a fan of some team out there and you're wondering what they should do this off season, pay close attention to your television screens and what is working in this league right now. How many Dwight Howard types are getting meaningful minutes and actually playing a meaningful basketball?

Not many at this point in the season. So if you're targeting that type, your mind's in the wrong place. How many 6-6-6-9 strong twitchy guys have been functional or useful in the late playoff rounds? All of them, right? And so that's what I would target is overpaid, you know, longer deals for bigger wings. You know, I'm not a huge fan of Gordon Hayward with his injury history, but that's the kind of guy that if you can bring him in in a tertiary role next to LeBron and AD, he can be super

functional. He can bring a ton more value than what he did for Charlotte, where they needed him to do so much more offensively. That's the type of player that I would target. Now, the second thing here is you've got these two first round draft picks, but you also have this Kendrick Nunn contract who's a pretty discounted backup point guard around the league. You can have him for $5 million.

And then you've got Talen Horton Tucker, who's been a disaster with the Lakers this last season. But Colin, like, how much can you blame the kid? Can you imagine being a 21-year-old in that shitstorm trying to develop as a basketball player as you're having everything going on with Westbrook and the passive aggressive comments and post game pressers and guys in and out of the lineup and then the Laker fan base and how hard they can be on people like it's just tough I I'm a big believer that Talen's not a star but he can be a functional player somewhere in the league so you package a guy like Talen with Kendrick Nunn in a draft pick and again

target another wing the Lakers you know I talked about perimeter size to begin this show it was the number one thing I learned from the film study from game one of the finals. And by the way, for everyone listening, the day after these shows, I always rewatch the game in its entirety. And I do about a half hour of just notes, just X's and nose, all in the weeds of the series. So stay tuned to our YouTube feed tomorrow morning if you want to see that. But when I was diving into that film, once again,

it was perimeter size for Boston that made that difference. I would like to see the Lakers rectify their catastrophic issue from last year, which was way too much. Anthony Davis and LeBron in the front corner, Anthony Davis and Dwight with Avery Bradley and Kendrick Nunn and Taylor, or not Kennerner with Taylor, Talen Horton Tucker and Malik Monk and all of these really small, skinny players on the perimeter that were just getting destroyed. So I'd like to see the Lakers get back to their 2020 identity, which was big wings, Alex Caruso, contavius Caldwell Pope, Kyle Kuzma, all 6'5 to 6-9 compete physical rebounders.

That's what won you, the championship. that's what's winning for both of these teams right now in the finals. That needs to be the direction that they go in. But what are the Lakers probably going to do, Colin? They'll probably be like, can we get Zach Levine? Like, what if we could flip Russ for John Wall? Let's get a star in here. You know, that's just their approach to everything.

All right, let's go back to the finals. It's 1-1. Celtics 3.5 point favorites. I like Boston. I think they win by about 5 or 6. I think Horford rebounds. you get a friendly whistle. I don't think Jordan Poole can duplicate some of the shots tonight.

I do think Clay is going to play better. You know, my take is as a franchise, they were kind of resting Robert Williams tonight. We're going to see what they got out of him. I think you'll have more minutes from Robert Williams, a better game from Al Hortford, a better game from Marcus Smart. I think the Warriors pull back a little bit offensively. they won't be quite as hot.

I'm going to take the Celtics by about five in game. Three, your thoughts? So I actually expect Boston to win big in game three because I just think it'll be the wave of the crowd, the first NBA finals game in Boston since 2010, right? There's going to be an incredible historic type of vibe in there. The Celtics facing a little bit of real adversity. You know, you were talking about Horford having

better game. Colin, our own Dremon Green, who as you have said, and I agree, has the best sports podcast in America right now. In the world. Yeah, in the world. In the film when I was watching it, he was kind of like, you know, in the game when you're watching it live, you see what's happening, but you have to rewatch to really see what's happening, which I totally understand for you. You're way too busy of a man to just sit down tomorrow morning and watch three hours of Warrior Celtics again. But like on the film, Draymond was. daring Horford to shoot. There wasn't even a closeout on most of them. Tonight, Al Horford, zero three point attempts. Dremont completely erased that factor from the game in one night.

He said on his show, he'd make the adjustment, and he did. And you know, sometimes, especially for, there's a lot of guys like Al Horford and Derek White in particular, they'll shoot when they're open. And when they get a groove, they'll be a little more aggressive, but they're not gunners. So like, if you can throw them a soft close out, they won't even shoot. You know, they'll just keep it moving. And that was an interesting example from Draymond tonight to flip that dynamic. But that said, Boston, 19 turnovers for 33 points tonight. That's something they'll clean up.

Tatum and Brown both had rough nights. They're going to be better in game three. I expect that physicality dynamic to flip back towards Boston. One of my favorite bets on Fanduil lately has been alternate spreads. I actually was on it tonight for Golden State because I expected them to win big. but I got him at minus 14 and a half for like plus 400. That's going to be the kind of thing I'm going to be looking at in this game three spread is what kind of odds we can get on an alternate spread in that 10 to 15 range.

Because I think that in Golden State also with Steve Kerr knowing they have some older guys and some guys that are dealing with some injuries, I could see him pulling the plug a little bit early too if the game is out of hand. So I expect Boston to win big in game three and then game four becomes the pivotal moment of the series. Does Boston put a second good effort together and put themselves in a big advantage? Or do they let their foot off the gas? You would mention Jordan Poole. He's obviously the biggest swing factor. I'm with you. I don't think Clay's going to get it going. He's just not getting good shots. It's not like we're sitting here watching Clay choke under the pressure.

He against this Boston defense, if it's, if it's him flying off a screen, it's still contested. His fadeaways are incredibly contested. He's had a handful of plays where he's gotten a layup attacking a closeout. He's not getting good looks. Clay's not going to get going in this series unless Boston makes a lot of mistakes. But Jordan Poole is going to be the guy to watch. Steph has just become reliable. You could just count on the guy to be a monster every single night, but they need something from Jordan Poole to steal one of these games in Boston.

All right, Jason Tim, hoops tonight. He'll break it down. We'll put it all over our stuff, all over the volume. Please subscribe to the volume sports YouTube channel. It's left or right, one of those. All right, my man, good job. We're nodded at one. game three is Wednesday, same time, same place.

Thanks, man. See you next time. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardweight with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having him with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.