The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Chicago Bears Draft Insight, Caleb Williams vs Justin Fields, Jordan vs LeBron

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Colin Cowherd is joined by Chicago Radio Host Danny Parkins to discuss all things Chicago. The two radio hosts talk shop about the radio industry and the difference between the local Chicago audience and being a national sports talk show host (5:00). Next they discuss the NBA's biggest issues and why Michael Jordan is the clear GOAT over LeBron James (21:40). The Chicago Bears have the #1 pick in the NFL Draft so Colin & Danny discuss Caleb Williams and what they should do in the draft (26:10). Danny's upcoming book "Pipeline to the Pros" is coming out soon so Colin asks him the motivation and favorite parts of the book while getting into some personal stories. Lastly they finish with Justin Fields and if the Bears made the right decision to trade him to the Steelers (58:05). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right, a really talented guy. I really hope you listen to the next hour with Danny Parkins, Chicago Radio host, and the most talented sports talk radio host, I think out there right now at his age, younger than I would hope for. I was hoping he was old and beat up, but he's young and great, and he'll come on our show today to talk the Bears, the draft, radio, his book, all that stuff. Before we get to Danny, I want you to grab your smartphone and download the GameTime app.

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The code is calling. Download game time today. Please do that. Last Minute tickets. Lowest price is guaranteed. Always. Well, I first heard of Danny Parkins from Nick Wright, who had said, hey, I work with this guy. And, you know, Nick had introduced me to two or three people. A couple of them were just obnoxious and annoying. And then he introduced me to Danny and told me to listen to his show. And so I fashioned myself as some sort of talent scout, obviously not. But since I started the volume, I really enjoy it. And so I said, oh, shit, this guy's really good. And then I go to Chicago regularly and listened. And I thought, wow, this guy's about the best young guy I've heard in the country. Because I, you know, I've been listening to Sports Talk Radio forever. And he's come out with a new book,

which feels like an intellectual exercise, which I think is really important in our business, because sports radio can be on our best day somewhat mindless. It's called Pipeline to the Pros. Danny, you're a really good writer. How D3 Small College, nobody's rose to rule the NBA. And I'll get to that in a second. But it does look a little bit. And when I wrote a book, it was sort of like, you know,

I just wanted to prove to everybody I wasn't a radio idiot completely. But I want to start with something else, I think, because I listen now to Sports Radio and you. and I contend New York, Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Philly is better sports talk radio than Los Angeles. That's not a personal attack on anybody. I do think they're really talented people in L.A. But when the weather's good and there's lots of options, people bail on teams very quickly when they're not good. But the HUD levels and the Buffaloes and the New York, Chicago, Detroit, you stay indoors and you watch your crappy teams and you got strong a

opinions. And, you know, that fosters sort of sometimes resentment and angst with your teams. In L.A., if I turn to sports talk radio, there's a 50-50 shot. It's Guy Talk, which doesn't really interest me. So that's my kind of theory on it. Kansas City is another really good sports talk radio market where you came from. Do you buy into my theory? A hundred percent. I've got some friends, including Nick Wright. And by the way, thank you for not characterizing me as obnoxious, even though maybe don't know each other well enough because some definitely would. Nick worked in Houston. our buddy Mike Meltzer worked in Houston,

and it's not a great sports radio market, but you would think that it would be because there's so much traffic and they love football and football dominates sports radio, but there's two shares that they're getting because there's other things for people to do, warm weather, all this, Miami. They're great shows that have come out of there,

great talents that have come out of there. They don't get any numbers. I would put Cleveland on the list. Great sports radio market. They pull huge numbers in Cleveland. Cleveland, love the teams. Minneapolis pulls huge numbers on K-Fans. So yeah, I think there's a ton there. And it'd be really nice to live in a place where you could go outside. But today it's snowed in Chicago in April. So we're supposed to talk about baseball on the radio. I'm like, I don't know,

it feels like football weather to me. Well, you know, when, so I did sports radio for a while. And then I wanted to create mostly out of survival when I was at ESPN. I said, guys, I've got to create a simulcast, AM radio is not a dynamic next 10-year horizon. And so ESPN did not think I was talented enough to be on ESPN too, apparently. So I said, all right, I'll jettison this place. I do appreciate it. And things have gone well. But when I went to television, I always did a show with a lot of football. But I think I have moved in the direction of more football. Part of that is, when you can see a TV number every day, you see what's working in. and you see what's not, and football almost almost works.

Secondarily, though, big beats small, scale beats up boutique. The NFL makes everything now look small. I think it's well run. I think sports gambling helps. I think it's better on television. I think other leagues have made mistakes. One and done is hurt college basketball, men's anyway. What percentage of your show?

Mine's about 70% NFL. I don't want to be on the NFL network. I've talked about a lot of college basketball in the last two, three weeks. What percentage of yours is NFL? Obviously it depends on the time, right? I mean, we're Cub's opening day. We're doing a ton of Cubs. We're the home of the Cubs.

But even leading into that, the bears have been the dominant storyline with the last two years having the number one overall pick. They're the biggest story in the NFL for the off season. So obviously, they're the biggest story here. So even with a two-team town, there's only three cities that have two baseball teams. Baseball on the radio is still incredibly powerful. You know, the Cubs are the biggest client of my radio station, 670, 4 by far. We're still, and I wish the number was higher.

My co-host is a bigger baseball guy. It's over 50% for football, even in opening day week with two teams in town because it's all about Caleb Williams and the ninth pick and are the bears on the come and all of that. And the other thing, at least in this market that I would say, is football's the great unifier. When I was growing up, kid in the 90s in Chicago, the Bulls were king, the Blackhawks weren't even on TV, but there were people that were Blackhawks fans and not Bulls fans, even at that period of time. And certainly when they had their dynastic run with three titles, the Hawks kind of overtook the Bulls as being the toughest ticket in town and that sort of thing. Cubs and White Sox split.

Blackhawks and Bulls split. Everybody cares about the Bears. Everybody has an opinion on the Bears. and for the national side of it, yeah, sports gambling, yeah, fantasy, but I think like the simplest way to explain it is that every game matters. It's one of 17, and no other league has that. If I miss Bulls Hawks and I don't talk about it on the show the next day, we don't get a single text call or tweet being like, hey, you missed this really important thing.

Because if a really important thing happens, I see about it on social media, it cuts through, we talk about it. But if you came out on the Monday after a Bears Packers game or a Bears Lions game or a Bears Jaguars game or a Bears Bucks game, whomever, even if they were five and ten, and you didn't do four hours on the Bears game, the ramifications, who played well, who didn't, who's going to get fired, who's going to get extended, all of those things. People would think you were insane.

So it's the great unifier and the thing that it has is that every game matters. and the rhythm of it, I think, is great. You play a game on Sunday. You react on Monday. The coach and the quarterback speaks on Wednesday. You start looking ahead to the next game. Then there's a Thursday night game. Teams in your division matter.

It's just for local sports radio, national TV, there's just such a great rhythm to football. I feel lucky a lot of times. What I like mostly is what the country likes. Yeah, me too. I have a growing interest in soccer over the last decade. My mom was British. I went to England as a kid, got a little soccer set. The World Cup was going on at that time.

Johann Croyfe, England. I remember Netherlands was great. England was great. And then in the Northwest, soccer was around me. The Sounders, the Timbers. University of Portland had a great program. So I've always been more of a soccer fan than the average person. I try to invest in the MLS twice, but I'm not.

not Tony Robbins or Magic Johnson. Not yet. Yeah. I love NFL. I really, really like college football. I really, really like the NBA. March Madness is fun. And I do like an occasional fight, now more UFC than boxing.

But an occasional fight on a Saturday night, I'm going to tune in and buy the UFC card. So are you aligned with the audience, or do you have to sometimes go, I don't care about this? I'll talk about it. that is the baseball part of it. It's not that I don't care about baseball. I grew up, you know, I'm 12 years old in Chicago in 1998. Jordan is completing the third, the second three-pe and Sammy Sosa's hidden 66 home runs and saving baseball. I love the Cubs. I grew up a Cubs fan. I'm invested in it, but I can't say that I care about a bullpen decision in a game in May. Yeah. And one of 162. Yeah. And the minutia of it, I just, I can't.

Yeah. And so that, but that is a necessity in Philly Sports Talk Radio, Chicago Sports Talk Radio, New York Sports Talk Radio. We do do some of that. And that is the part that, I mean, if that's the part that feels like work, okay, I'm not on the side of a road, I'm not welding. I'm not, you know, I still love my job every day. But there definitely is a.

an element of, man, this is a little bit of an effort. Boog Shambi, who's terrific play-by-play guys, a buddy of mine, he's the voice of the Cubs locally, does a lot of stuff nationally, calls the World Series nationally for ESPN Radio. Him and I were talking about it one time, and he had a great point about it, said, you know, if they were creating baseball today, they wouldn't say 162 games. It makes no sense, but they'll never go back because,

and people are, oh, it's because of the numbers and the stats. That's because of money. We're recording this. The Cubs are getting ready to play a game. It's 38 degrees and it was snowing today. Yeah, no. I had this argument years ago. I said if I think I did a segment or two on it.

I said if sports started today, baseball wouldn't make it. You'd say, okay, 162 games, slow pace, no real clock, although they have it now. Multiple pitching changes. Any little weather delay, they'll cancel it. Sometimes, other times you'll sit in a stadium for three hours. You'd be like, yeah, that doesn't work. It's not very riveting on TV. You would have UFC, NFL, NBA, college sports.

You'd probably always have golf because it's an event and it's infrequent. The Olympics, it's an event, it's infrequent. But I do think, I will say this. I think Fox, the company I work for, I think they have the right baseball. They have postseason baseball and that's what I care about. I can flip a switch a little bit on baseball and really deeply care if the Yankees or the Braves or, you know, the Cubs World Series. I didn't miss a pitch.

Of course. I mean, it was one of the greatest sporting things of my life that I've ever watched and people are crying and people are listening to the game on the radio in a cemetery next to the headstone of their father. You know what I mean? There is a connective tissue of baseball. There's a romanticism to baseball. There's a comfort of baseball that I do like and appreciate and the history and how much

it matters locally. And people say baseball is dying. I do think the new rules have really helped it. Yes. But also it's a $12 billion. industry. It's not, it's not dying. It's just football makes its billions with $100 bills. Baseball makes its billions with singles and fives, right? It's a, it's regional. It's a local thing. Your local TV deal matters. How much money you spend on tickets locally really matters. The NFL, all that

matter, these NFL stadiums are television studios. They make their money from Fox, CBS, NBC, ESPN, Amazon. That's how the NFL makes its money. Baseball, the Cubs make their money from Wrigley Field, tickets sold at Wrigley Field, and the Marquis Sports Network. And that's why it's very different. The White Sox play eight miles south. Their economic situation is very different. They're in a huge market, but not as many people go and not as many people watch on TV. Same sport. So it's just a, it's a sport of haves and have-nots. A lot of it's archaic. I am drawn still to a ton of it, but that's more based on tradition and where I was born than like the current. product. Yeah, and I also think there are, you know, I think sports is in a really good space

for a lot of reasons. I think college basketball's got some challenges because of one and done, but the Ignite league that went, or the Ignite team that left probably helps a little. NIL probably helps men's college basketball a little. I do think the NBA, and I'm a huge fan, so I'm going to Nick's Bulls Friday night in Chicago. So I love, yeah, I love the NBA. You're always at Bulls games in Chicago. Yeah, I'm always. buying a Bulls, Blackhawks concert season ticket. My wife and I are this weekend. So we go to Chicago a lot and it's an easy flight.

And she loves Chicago and she loves going out. She really likes going to NBA games. She really likes fights and NBA games and concerts. It's a great wife. She likes fights? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I order UFC cards. We got a group getting together for UFC 300 in a couple of weeks, but not at my house. No. My wife's like, you want to do that? Okay, fine. But either when I'm out of town or you go to your buddy. So my wife is flying into Vegas to go to the UFC 300 with me. And what's interesting is my wife doesn't love sports, but she likes events.

And she likes, hey, let's go get a cocktail. Let's go out to dinner. Let's dress up. It's fun. And she'll ask a million questions, but she kind of has a sense of it. And she likes the event of it. And the NBA games are an event. UFC's an event.

She couldn't get my wife to a baseball game or a football game in the snow. There's not a chance in hell. So she's not a sports fan, but she's aware of it. and she asked the right questions. If she asked a question, it's like, oh, yeah, that's a thoughtful question. And hopefully I'm a sportscaster and have most of the answers. But I would say this. I do, and I think sports in a great spot, I do think it's easier to be a harsh parent and get soft.

It's much harder to be a soft parent and then pretend to get tough and your kids roll your eyes at you. The NBA has always been a player's league. I do think they've crossed a line. The load management to be is outrageous. Hockey doesn't do it, and they have 82 games, and those guys are kicking the shit out of each other and have no teeth. And it's hockey, by the way, if you've ever gone into a hockey locker room, in between periods or after, the smell is...

Oh, it's disgusting. It is mildew meets perspiration, meets death. Those guys work harder than any pro athlete. Colin, I lived, when I graduated, college in 2009, I moved in to an absolute shithole of an apartment by Wrigley Field, about a block and a half away, with four buddies that I've been friends with since third grade. And so already, it's five, 22-year-olds, 23-year-olds in an apartment that we could afford a block and a half from Wrigley Field. It's disgusting. Now add in that two of the five were

big-time hockey players, like state champions in our high school, played college club hockey. And so they would play in men's leagues and they would come back with their uniform and their pads and their hockey sweaters or whatever and like dump it in the on the back deck you could smell it in the front room of the house it is so disgusting but yeah hockey live by the way it's great it's a great time because if you're like oh i've ice skated before i've skied i consider myself mildly coordinated and then you go out there and you see these guys are 200 pounds and they're shooting the puck a hundred miles an hour and they're hitting each other on blade It's ridiculous.

And my take is they play. They play hard. They drink. They sex. I mean, hockey guys are legendary for they play hard. They fight. They sex. They drink.

Rinse and repeat. Complete degenerates. Yes. And we love them. The best of Europe represented in Canada and the United States. The NBA guys often on a Saturday night, yeah, I'm going to take a night off. I think it's egregious. I think it's hurting the league.

I think it's a cautionary tale what you're seeing with lower quality in men's basketball and massive ratings. You're giving us effort. And I'm an NBA guy, so I'm not here. There's a lot of people out there that are dishonest. They're not fair actors. I think it's a real,

Mark Cuban sold his team. I think Mark Cuban sees it. So when we watched the NBA playoffs last year, it was like, holy shit, this is a different sport. because I watch, I don't know, 70 of the 82 Bulls games live. I'm a big Bulls fan. We're the home of the Bulls.

Good NBA City. We talk about them. And they're bad. They're the ninth seed this year. They're the ninth seed last year. But I watch a ton of NBA. I stay up late and watch West Coast NBA on Tuesday night to watch whatever the game is. I wrote a damn book about the NBA.

I love the league. But they very clearly flip a switch come post season time. and it's kind of insulting. Yes. And it doesn't mean that they're not a thousand times better and more skilled than at any point in the history of basketball and that it's still a better caliber of basketball than college basketball. But when you know, even if I can't really tell and I could see Steph Curry drop 50 on a given night and you can see, you go to an NBA game in person, you'll see something amazing, which is another reason why it kicks the shit out of baseball, because you. you go to a random baseball game, it's 3-0, you see nothing that's impressive.

Like, okay, what the hell did I do other than have some beers in the sun? But you go to any NBA game, you're going to see something amazing. Every time. Because honestly, even if the top three or four guys sit out and you're disappointed because that's the guy whose jersey you wear, there's more than 300 good basketball players in the world. You know what I mean? So, like, the eighth, ninth, or tenth guy on a team that never gets any run

can come in and drop 25 or drop 30 or can do a windmill dunk or whatever. But I think when we see the switch being flipped in the playoffs, it's insulting to our sensibility. So it's 2024. And let's talk about something really, really important. If you're ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan to America's largest injury law firm. And they are there for you. Over 100 offices nationwide.

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Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill?

Well, you can find out on The Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We'll get to his book in a second. This is Danny Parkins, co-host of Parkins and Spiegel show in Chicago. It's a very, very good. show and Danny to me is probably the most talented young sports talk radio host in the country. He's got kids. He's not that young. But he knows my admiration for him. And I felt that about Nick Wright before I had heard Danny. And the book is Pipeline to the Prose, which we'll get to. I'm not putting it off because it's really well written. And I'm not, no, I'm not talking to you. My audience is probably saying, get the goddamn book, Coward. Nobody cares about you.

No, no, I know. I work that, that little extra plug in to give you my NBA bona fides. By the way, can I, because we do not do a ton of Jordan v. LeBron goat stuff. It obviously comes up, but it's like a little bit like taboo to do it locally. It's like it's a little hacky. It's like Pete Rose should he be in the Hall of Fame. But I get why it drives a lot of conversation nationally. Can I tell you the thing that doesn't get mentioned enough nationally because it's germane to this conversation we're having? Okay.

Congratulations to LeBron for longevity, for spending a million dollars a year on your body and a wild night out being splitting a $2,000 bottle of red wine. Jordan was doing it with 36 holes of golf, 10 Miller lights, a run at the blackjack table, gambling debt, and like sweating out tequila. And he was dropping 40 and he was playing every damn night. So can we grade on a curve of degeneracy for the era, please? Like that's the thing that no one talks like, yes, the skill is better. Competition is better.

LeBron, you know, as an underdog, he loses in the finals, he wins, whatever. I understand LeBron is amazing. I'm not trying to take away from him. But I'd like to see the guy play 36 holes of golf and then go drop 45 on the next. I'd like to see it. I'm not sure that he could do it. No, we all meet guys. I had a friend one time.

He would go to South Carolina in the summer. And he didn't have a ton of money, so I'd do like a three-day vacation. He would golf 36 holes, three days in a row, get bombed each night. And I'm talking 94 degrees in the heat. And I'm like, bro, I'm nine holes on Friday out. Two Miller lights, I'm out. Some guys, and Jordan was one of them, have this relentless genetic thing. And I've gone to college with guys.

They could drink all night long, no hangover. And Jordan to me is one of those athletes that is once in a lifetime that did not treat his body with a great deal of love and admiration. and just when I saw the MJ story and he before the Eastern Conference games with the Celtics, he's getting 18 holes in the sun. I'm like, that's my day. I'm having dinner at five. I'm out. You had pregame steaks.

He smoked regularly. Like he mixed booze all the time, beer and liquor. Like it is insane. And these guys, they're like, oh, we've invested in a wine company. Like we have an in-house Somalié for the Miami Heat. Awesome. Awesome. I respect the professionalism, but then you also take off when, oh, man, they have a two-day stay over in South Beach, so guys are going to take off.

No, no, no. Jordan would close down the club in South Beach and then go drop 40. I always felt this about Johnny Bench, best catcher ever. Not just because I think he's the best catcher ever. AstroTurf. Gear. Oh, absolutely. By the way, back then, a lot of days.

games. He would. Now, Bill Plummer was the backup, so he didn't do both games of a double header, but he would do Friday night in Cincinnati, Saturday, National TV Sunday. Steve Garvey told me it was so hot in Kansas City and Riverfront. Now, he was a national leger, right, Dodgers? He said, Pittsburgh, Philly, and Riverfront, you'd have to put lettuce in your shoes to keep it cool. He goes one time in Philadelphia, his cleats stuck to the turf. And Johnny Bench had that gear on and would go three first. four with two jacks game goes 12 innings and he is catching the four threads picture people have no idea baseball players in the 70s to about 85 it was 140 degree field in the midwest oh i mean

listen i mean different eras too i mean guys would have like bags of cocaine fall out of their pocket on the base paths you know what i mean like just like what they would do like if you go and by the way it's why also if you go back and you watch a game from the 90s and like oh it was better they weren't more skilled they were slower and 30 to 50% of the guys were hungover so not it really wasn't better but there is a element of nostalgia to it and an amount of respect so i don't spend any time on social media some of that is simply because i have a staff at the volume i'm very fortunate and a pretty hearty staff at fs one i i you know my my kids are not on it my my son never is on it my daughter in frequent but used to be not anymore. But I, yeah, it's pretty toxic. So, you know, I think about this because one of the things about our business, and I don't get many people on that I got to talk about the business,

which is why I'm doing it now, because you love radio, I love radio. And I do think occasionally, fans like to just hear how you and I think and talk about this crap. And, you know, I'm thinking one of the criticisms I've gotten through the years and even back to doing local is, well, Colin, you said this. like six weeks ago. And I'm like, there's new information. And I always say, you know, if a pilot came to you and said, folks, we got a lightning storm that's moved in. And he said, but I'm going to fly right into it. There's, there's no reason to deviate. I've got two hours ago. There wasn't, and I'm going to fly into it. You'd be like, oh shit, I'm going to cancel my flight.

So I didn't like Ryan Poles initially. Veles Jones, I watched them at USC, could not track the ball. I mean, I literally text you GMs and I'm like, he doesn't know what he's doing. That he can't play. He's a part. He can't play. So, but I watched USC, maybe more than Ryan Poles. And then there was the Chase Claypool, which I defended because of the body type. But Chase ended up going sideways and not being very mature.

And so my takeaway is I don't trust the ownership, Ryan Poles, Matt Eber, Fluse. And then probably knowing he butchered Bealus Jones and knowing that there are certain things about offense like line play. I think he's drafted it pretty well that he knows. He went and got DJ Moore. He went and got Keenan Allen and move Mooney. And I thought, oh, and then he brings in Gerald Everett. And he's Swift, who's a good, he can catch the ball to the backfield. And I'm like, oh, now I, new information. I think Ryan Poles knows what he's doing. I think his last six move. I love the Monta's sweat move. It got heat, but I'm like, folks, there's nobody in the second round as good as Montes Sweat. Right. No guarantee you to get him in a free agency.

That's right. But what is the takeaway, because the There's, Iber Fluse has been criticized, the ownership has, but where is everybody sitting on your GM, which in football is such a substantial position because the rosters are so big and there's so many moves to make. I don't know how you could have any grade on him other than an A. It doesn't mean that he's perfect and you've listed a few of the big misses. Like, Valis Jones is the first offensive player that he ever selected, but it was in the third round. teams miss on third round picks all the time. Chase Claypool. It was a panicked move.

It was I'm trading away Roquan Smith. I'm trading away Robert Quinn. I'm carrying the most dead cap space of any team in the league. But I am trying to be fair to Justin Fields, who is an 11 out of 10 as a person. And I'd like to figure out if I have something here, I've got to give him something. And he over-traded for the traits of Chase Claypool. and I think he undervalued the personal stuff. Because then when he learns the mistake from that,

and he trades for Montes Sweat, there were a lot of people saying, trade for Chase Young off that defense. More talented, better pedigree player, all of that stuff. But he loaves. He takes plays off. And Montes Sweat, whatever he's got, he's given it to you. And so I think that is a direct,

because it's the exact same trade. It's a second round pick for an established player, that you're hoping to pay. They paid Montez Sweat. They obviously didn't pay Claypool. So I think also with anything, learning, proving that you learn from your mistakes and that you don't double down. That's a sign of intelligence to me.

So to me, like, it's like, yeah, did it start a little choppy? No question. But he also inherited one of the oldest teams in the league with a ton of bad contracts, a quarterback that someone else drafted. no first round pick in his first year. So his first draft picks are second round picks, both of whom, by the way, pretty good, Kyler Gordon and Jaquan Brisker,

two guys who are starters in one of the best young secondaries in football. Then when he gets a first round pick, a lot of us are saying, Jalen Carter, Jalen Carter, Jalen Carter, Jalen Carter, you need a three technique for this defense. He moves down from 9 to 10, picks up an extra fourth round pick, drafts Darnell Wright, right, right tackle to support the quarterback. He makes all rookie team. Looks like he's going to be a star.

at right tackle for 10 years. And then the biggest thing by far, and the sweat one was big and the Keenan Allen was big, is he trades the number one overall pick and picks the right team to trade to gets DJ Moore, gets the second round pick that is Tyreeks Stevenson, another starter at cornerback who was really damn good last year, gets the first round pick this year, which is going to be, you know, Caleb Williams, a once in a generation, quarterback prospect. He has their second round pick

next year from Carolina. And oh yeah, by the way, DJ Moore. So it's one of the great, I mean, people will reference the Herschel Walker trade. It is truly one of the great trades in modern NFL history. If Caleb Williams is everything that you and I and the vast majority of people

think that he will be, they've got a very good cap situation. They've got very good players in their athletic prime, Jalen Johnson, Tremaine Edmins, Montez Sweat, Colquette, DJ Moore. These guys are all 25, 26, 27 years old, under contract, good players on rookie deals, Brisker, Gordon, Tyreek Stevenson, Darnel Wright, Tevin Jenkins, who I hadn't mentioned. And now you're going to inject the ninth overall pick, whoever he ends up taking,

and there's a ton of great options, and Caleb Williams and a good quarterback on a rookie deal, the Bears should be set up under Ryan Poles for a really long runway of success here. I can't be the only person that has noticed Matt Iber Fluse, the coach has changed his look. What's up with that? Yeah. So he credits his wife and daughters. And it's very weird because when Matt Eber Fluse talked before the beard and the little product and the little product, he sounded really dumb. And now he's saying the same things with like designer hoodies and a beard and a little scruff and a little product.

And I'm like, how Fluse has some swag. There's like, like, my coach is like, I'm. flusiastic. I'm like, that's a really corny dad joke, but I respect it. He's like for some, like, he's like sitting court side next to handsome Matt LaFleur. And I'm like, ooh, which is the more handsome NFL head coach? Is it Matt LaFleur? Is it Matt Lebrose? He's carrying himself with a little swag. My problem with Iber Fluse, um, yeah, a couple of assistant coaches, including his defensive coordinator, who he brought over Alan Williams left in disgrace. Um, I don't like hiring a defensive

coach, I'm biased to offensive coaches because it's just sustained success. I think it's the best way to foster an environment for a quarterback. My thing was, when you hit the lottery of getting the number one overall pick for Caleb Williams, are you really telling me that the best possible person to develop him is Matt Eberfluse and Shane Waldron? Or would Jim Harbaugh have been better? Or would Ben Johnson have been better? Would Ben Johnson have taken this job instead of going back to Detroit?

because I think this job would be really damn attractive if it was open. And they have a pretty good offensive coaching staff because it's an attractive job and you get to coach Caleb Williams, but you obviously were limiting your talent tool if you're only hiring for coordinator. So that was my issue with how polls handled the coach. But he swears by him. He swears by the culture. He swears by the effort.

And the team did play hard and the defense did get better. did finish the season relatively strong, and they should be a top 10, maybe top five defense next season. So there are reasons to keep him, and he's swaggy now. So that's also too. Yeah, my wife always says that. My wife has this ability. It's so, I don't have it, that she has great, funny lines, and she can hold them for 12 years. And then she'll drop it at the perfect time.

And I'm like, where did you hear that? She goes, oh, I heard that in eighth grade. And I'm like, I couldn't hold up for 15 minutes. If I went to out to dinner with you, I would find a way to get it into the conversation just to impress you. Sure. And so one of the things, you know, like one of her things she said to me one time and I made a mistake. And she said, honey, you're either right or you're learning. She said, unless you keep making the same mistake, then you're wrong.

She goes, you don't make the same mistake much. So you're right or you're learning. I'm like, God, I got to steal that. The other one, she said to me, when we started dating about three years in, I was not a very good dad or something. I made a mistake. And she goes, be a great example or a horrible warning. Kids learn from both. I'm like, we're going to do a book now.

Come on. You're holding shit now over me. It's like I'm a old Joel Osteen meets Tony Robbins. Where's this stuff coming from? Yeah, she's a philosopher who loves. the UFC? Where did you find this unicorn? This is unbelievable. So she is big, speaking of Iber Fluse, she is always, she is big on current. Her big line is with everything, your career, your look, just stay current. She said, you know, musical acts, they look backwards. And I've

always had a thing where I always say, I'm a windshield guy, not a rearview mirror guy. Most of that, I didn't have a traditional upbringing. But I think the point with Iber Flus, and I think we've talked this in our careers. You and I may have grown up baseball fans. We shifted to NFL fans and sports talk gambling topics because that's where the, that's where the audience went. It is how comfortable, I am comfortable with sports gambling, the distort or the disturbance rates 1% it's 6% for alcohol. You know, the people that go sideways, draft Kings told me very early. It's $4 per bet. That's literally what the average bet is. So it's hard to break your family up. But there are some do-goaters, some, you know, there's the kind of precious sports media out there often that says gambling is the end of society.

You're a guy that is, I believe, a poker player. You're very mathy like Nick Wright. You'd be a lawyer if you didn't do this or a financial guy, right? Like, you guys are both very mathy. Of course, I would never give my money to Nick because of the black and tans or whatever he smokes. He gets sideways very quickly. Yeah, he's been quitting smoking for 20 years, while. wearing a nicotine patch and buying

cigarettes individually. Yeah, individually. We're stopping off for a Lucy again. Just buy a pack. It will save us time. You're bumming individual cigarettes from different people at the casino. You could just buy a pack. You can afford it. You're on TV. Are you ever uncomfortable talking sports betting? No. I blame my parents. My parents were market people, finance people. And I'm like, that's gambling. Now, the difference, of course, is

invidia is not going to zero tomorrow. And if I bet the over in the Bears game and it's under, that bet goes to zero. So obviously there are differences. But it's all just a market. It's a market of expectations. And I find it actually really informative, even for people who don't gamble, because they don't just come up with these things randomly, sharp better set the lines.

And there are formulas and Excel spreadsheets that predict, oh, this guy is going to have, is expected to have this number of yards. that might be relevant for if you play fantasy football or just who do you like you know there are practical implications to it that i do think are relevant even if you aren't putting four dollars forty dollars or four thousand dollars on the game and also i mean and this is back to the shop talk it is supporting the industry it you know it for a while it was beer for a while it was car dealerships now it is legalized gambling and throughout history, prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work with alcohol. It doesn't work with weed. It doesn't

work with gambling. I'm not saying that nothing should be illegal, but there's something to no speed limit on the auto bond. You know, like just in general, people are going to do what they are going to do and it may as well be regulated and taxed and try to funnel that money into something productive. Are there going to be consequences of it along the way? For sure, but that's why taxes on cigarettes are expensive. That's why if you walk into a dispensary here in Illinois and you want to buy a pre-rolled joint, it costs way more than it would if I got it from a dude in my next door neighbor, but I know what it's going to be.

So it's the type of thing like it's taxed, it's regulated, you know where the money goes. So no, I have no qualms about it. I've been betting on sports since I was 15 years old. I love it. And I'm thrilled that all of my vices are now legal. It's great. Everything's coming up to me. All right.

The NBA season is in full swing, coming down the stretch. Then we move right into the playoffs in April, May, and June. I can't wait. Spice things up with Draft King Sports Book and official sports betting partner the NBA right now. All you have to do is put down five bucks and get $150 instantly in bonus bets. Pretty good tradeoff. I pay five. I get $150.

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Draft King Sportsbook app put in Colin. New customers bet five, get $150 back in bonus bets instantly. That is the trade. Code is always Colin. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler. Or in West Virginia, visit 1-800 gambler.net. In New York, call 8778-8-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY 4667-369. In Connecticut,

help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-777 or visit ccpg. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. One no sweat bet per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes

for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we. went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it, including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the book is Pipeline to the Pros. Woj gives it a great recommendation. If you love basketball, you'll devour a pipeline of the pros. So I'm a couple of chapters in. You're a very, very clever writer, which doesn't surprise me at all. So let's start with this. Tell the audience why you decided. to write this book and the connectivity from your family from you.

Right. So me and my buddy Ben Kaplan, who's the co-author on the book, so Ben played D3 basketball and I went to Syracuse. And he was the starting point guard on our high school team, and I was the guy who was doing the play-by-play on the radio. We've been best friends since third grade. Nick is my best friend since college. Ben is my best friend since third grade. they were both groomsmen in my wedding. So he came to me and he said, I got this idea. There's a story here.

And we've been going to NBA games our entire life. And I didn't know anything about it about all of these D3 guys who had broken in to the NBA, former Division III players who made its way to being coaches or executives. And when he pitched me the idea, 12 of the 30 teams in the NBA, either their head coach or their top basketball decision maker had played D3 basketball. And I'm like, that's insane.

And I was drawn to the disproportionate nature of that number. You would think cleanest path that that job would be you play at Duke or you play in the NBA, whatever the case may be, right? And so that just instantly fascinated me. And the network side of it, like networking, you go to Harvard Medical School. There's a network of the alums. you go to Syracuse for broadcasting. There's a network of the alums.

These guys all know each other, and they're all helping each other, and they're hiring their friends, and a few people got in and broke down the door, and then they were like, hey, you know a guy, and they started hiring these people, and it has, as the league has changed, and it's gotten more smart and more analytical,

these smart guys from these liberal arts colleges have taken it over, and I was just instantly drawn to, like, the management and the networking, and how some of the lessons in the book I think are applicable to, hey, are you considering a liberal arts education? Like, it's a basketball book, but there's a lot of things that are really practically applicable to any walk of life,

I would say. And then just like one more personal anecdote. We, I didn't, I almost didn't take the project on because my, at the time, my dad was dealing with dementia and my brother had been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. And so you have those two things. You have a young son and you have a pregnant wife with your second along the way. And I'm like, I am spent.

I cannot take on anything else. But we, you and I think are maybe cut from the same cloth. Like, I need more than one thing for my creative outlet. I need to be intellectually stimulated. And it's not that I'm not for my four hour a day radio show, but I've got my 10,000 hours in it. I know how to do this. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to really, regret it if I don't partner up with one of my best friends. And, and then his father ended up

getting diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and passing away. So from concept to publishing, we both lost our dads and I lost my brother. And so that's who the book is dedicated to. I'm donating a portion of each book sold to brain cancer research and honor my brother. But like, it was a, his passion project became our passion project. And he doesn't have a media profile. And it's obviously a niche subject matter. D3 guys make it to the NBA. So the book would have never been made if we didn't partner up together with my media profile and all of that. So like it, we worked really hard on it for a couple of years and, we're really proud of the final product. Yeah, you can tell you put the time into it. It's not only an

intellectual project. It's so deep. It's so smart. It's so thoughtful. And I think you and Nick are very similar. So you, Nick likes to prod. He really likes to poke people in the ribs. I don't think you're quite that from what I've heard on your show. But you get exhausted. You don't suffer fools gladly. You get exhausted very quick with nonsense. Yes. When you do a project like this and you go through all this drama and I mean, what was Nick's first react?

Because I know Nick read it. I know Nick's so proud of you. What was his first reaction to it? Because Nick is so competitive. and he loves you dearly, he probably thought, I've got to write a book. That's funny. I wish, you know, he got on national TV and I was like, I got to get on national TV. You get to drive really nice cars.

Yeah, you know, that's funny. He was surprised. Really? So he was surprised in the, not in that I couldn't do it, but that I, or that I didn't have the bandwidth for it, but just like the nature of the project. He's like, you're doing what? He's like, you and I talk once or twice a week. We've never talked about this. I'm like, yeah, man, I don't know. I got a few other interests, like a few other things. Like I keep surprising you. So I think that he's like, I figured if you're writing a book, you're writing a book on gambling.

You're writing a book on, uh, on media. You know, you're writing a book on something like that. So I think like the, the research nature of it and the depth of the project. But again, like I have to credit my friend for bringing me the story. And so this is a thing of opportunity. But yeah, him and I are always coming up with, Nick and I are always coming up with like, we should do this. We're going to do this together. And we've done a lot of those things. Like, you know what I mean? We've, we've helped each other throughout our career. We always have big ideas. Sometimes our conversations end up like, oh, we're doing it again. We're spinning this thing forward 17 permutations into the future, you know? And so when I told him about,

this he uh i think he wanted to know if i was going to tell him about it again or if it was just an idea in the moment and then damn near three years later we got we got a we got a book out of it well because that's the thing like we're both doing full-time jobs he has three kids i have two kids we've got all this personal trash like we were really doing this and we knew we weren't like competing we don't have to be we don't have to worry about being first to market we're with a with a d3 NBA but no one else is on this corner give me so yeah danny give me a story. Let's do a little tease for the audience. Give me one of the unconventional paths that was very endearing and connected with you. Okay. Well, I mean, so Jeff Van Gundy

wrote the forward of the book. And he was the perfect person to do it because he hired a bunch of former D3 people, including his brother, Stan Van Gundy. But he was the transfer portal before there was the transfer portal. We are 100% sure that Jeff Van Gundy is the first and only person to transfer from Yale to Menlo Junior College. He then transfers to Nazareth and then he finishes at Brockport. Goes to Yale thinking he can play in the Ivy League. They say, no, not good enough. We're not even going to let you try out for the team.

Goes to Menlo. Goes to Nazareth where his dad gets a job. They fire his dad. Out of loyalty, he ends up at Brockport. So four schools following his for the love of the game, And he is convinced that because short guy, white guy, nerdy guy comes out of Brockport ultimately, that he will never get a shot. But brilliant dude through connections, through camps, grinds, grinds, works his way up and eventually is on Pat Riley's staff with the Knicks.

And Riley leaves. He'd been there through a couple of different coaches. He's there. He's there for four years. He is named the interim head coach of the Knicks. he is the head coach of the Nix. And the New York Daily News runs a column that lists back to gambling the odds on who the next full-time head coach of the Nix is going to be. Larry Brown's the favorite.

John Calipari is the next favorite. Lou Karnaseka at 71 years old is listed at 5,000 to 1. Red Holtzman at 76 years old is listed. as a $1 million to one to be the next head coach of the Knicks. And Jeff Van Gundy was given 50 million to one odds in the New York Daily News.

Well, he is the current head coach of the next to actually keep the job as head coach of the next. And he gets it, he perseveres, and between him and his brother, who he hired, and Jeff Van Gundy, and Tom Thibito,

and Steve Clifford, and Andy Greer, and all these other guys that he brought into the league. It's over a thousand wins between Jeff and Stan Van Gundy. A couple of D3 guys. Their name is now synonymous with the NBA.

So these guys who are the best to do it were doubted when they literally already had the job. One more quick one. Greg Popovich, maybe the best coach ever. He's a coach at Pomona. Just goes into the Hall of Fame. It's April of 97. He has just gotten a three-year extension

because he was the GM and the coach for a minute in San Antonio. When the three-year extension gets announced, the San Antonio newspaper does a survey of readers, what do you think of the Greg Popovich extension? 92% of respondents said that Greg Popovich should be fired. In 1997, when he was about to become the dynastic Greg Popovich, so these guys, they were overlooked for forever,

and just through intelligence and being good teachers and good networkers and hard workers, they rose their way up. I could never play in the NBA. I could never play in Riggily Field or the NFL. But there is something to like the work ethic and the intelligence and the networking that I was just drawn to the story. And I think we really covered it well. It's pipeline to the pros.

This is a more personal question. And we can edit it out if you're not comfortable. But you had a very... You're a smart guy and your parents were successful. And you've had a very redeemable career, an ascending career that very few people have in our business. And then your brother and your father's dying is painful. A brother dying is a whole different story. And this is so personal.

How are you equipped? not that you hadn't had struggle but how are you equipped to deal with it have you been equipped how difficult i mean that's i can't i mean i get emotional not knowing your brother i don't know i don't know how i wouldn't be equipped um okay so that's that's that's a good question um brad was diagnosed with glioblastoma june 5th of 2020 my son, my first son, Owen was born at 31 weeks. So he was born nine weeks premature, January 17th of 2020. We all know what happened in March of 2020.

I remember vividly saying to my wife in call it April. No, no, no. Excuse me. It was like June 1st. I don't know that I can take anymore. It was just super stressed. Money stress, pandemic stress, new baby stress, feeling overwhelmed. My dad's dementia diagnosis was, it was ugly.

Alzheimer's. It's a terrible, terrible, horrible disease. I honestly don't know that I can take anymore. Three days later, my brother gets diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. You just learn that you can deal with more than you expect. And it hurts if you stay in bed and it hurts if you get up. So you may as well get the fuck up. Like that's what I've learned if I've learned anything.

I have cried. I've been in therapy. I have definitely not handled everything perfectly throughout this process. But I have learned that it hurts either way. So you may as well keep going. because your world can change with a phone call tomorrow. So I don't know if that answers your question, but I would not have said that I was equipped to handle it,

and it still devastates me every day that my brother isn't here, but somehow I'm still here and I'm doing what I'm doing. Well, first of all, I appreciate you answering that. It's probably too personal, but I also think, I knew you'd go to a place because you're so capable. Somebody is listening to our podcast and dealing with a very similar situation in the family. And when I heard your story, it made me think about a friend I had years ago in Vegas that lost his wife. And so first of all, I thank you for sharing that.

But it's, you know, it goes back to a saying. It's kind of a cliche, but we've heard it before is you just never know. what people have gone through in a day. Just be nice to people. I know. Social media does not elevate the life experience. It deteriorates it. That's why I stay away.

So that was a pretty remarkable answer. And I do, Danny, I appreciate that. And I don't want to end on this because you're not a downer. It's a really raw topic. And I thought it was I wanted to hear, I wouldn't have been equipped. I don't know how you would have handled it. And I guess I think you probably would have been, but you don't know until you're confronted with it. And I'm glad that you haven't been and you don't want anybody to deal with it.

And I, you know, grief is hard, man. Grief is really hard. And yeah, it is a downer, but it is relatable. Yeah, there's a thing called anticipatory grief, which I didn't even know about. But it's like when you get a terminal diagnosis and then you're like grieving and you're like, waiting for the actual person to die. And you think, like, you have, you're dealing with anticipatory grief. Like, you know eventually your dad's going to pass away.

He has Alzheimer's. You know your brother's going to pass away. He's got terminal brain cancer. And then it happens. And it's like, oh, it doesn't actually replace the real grief. So you just deal with it. And because you have literally no other choice. But I don't know, man.

Buy a book. I'll donate a portion of it to brain cancer research. And it's really, it's so smart. It's such a. Thank you. It really is. So, you're a good man. Thank you.

You bet. I want to circle back is that Chicago to me is, I kind of feel Chicago people, there is a divide. Sometimes it's financial, sometimes it's in reach, obviously, between syndicated national and local. I think local sports radio is much better than national sports radio. And I think you're at the top of the heap, and I say that, the best show I've ever heard. I think you're the best talent doing it in the country. I think Felger and Mazz in Boston have the ability to be in a very tribal town, incredibly honest and hated and adored simultaneously.

It's a really good listen. Yeah. I pull huge numbers. Yeah. I used to, as I was crafting this scrawny physique, I used to sit in my downstairs in my weight room and just sit there and I would watch them for an hour. Chicago is, to me, it's just everything I watch on TV, local TV still matters. It looks like syndicated.

It looks like national. It's, I mean, Lester Holt, I think, came from Chicago. My buddy Joe Donlin's an anchor in Chicago. I think he's as good a local anchors you're going to get in the country. Chicago Sports Radio to me, I love listening to it because it's just the perfect mix of tribal, smart, insane. Oh, yeah. If you have recently taken a rare, you're a liked figure, the voice, you're tolerant, you're bright, but you are a little bit, you kind of moved into a space as far as I can tell.

You were not really a Justin's field guy in the city was, you know, of course they're clinging to it working. Hell, the bears were clinging to it. They wanted to say, we'll get nine picks for Caleb Williams. Everybody wanted it to work. So what is it like now? probably for the first time in your career as being a villain for a few months. Okay, so this is fascinating. I'm going to take off my headset for just one second because this will make sense.

There is an exact moment when my likability plummeted. And it's, wow, I just have to pull out a prop real quick. I didn't know if we were going to talk about this. Hold on. So I commissioned a Caleb Williams 13 Bears jersey the day that. got the number one pick. So with a week left in the season. And so Justin Fields is still on the Bears.

It's been he's likable. He's fun. He's exciting. He was voted the 86th best player in the NFL coming off of the 2022 season when they had the most dead caps face and no one else good on the team. People love Justin Fields. And the Bears did not treat him well. And it was not fair.

And they did not build around him. And the situation that Caleb was walking into is a thousand times but life isn't fair. And I was like, listen, here's the thing. I like hangar steak, but I've got a chance for 8-5 Wagyu. And it's cheaper. Like, for some reason,

for some reason, the Waggo is cheaper than the hangers-thake. Like, I'm going to go for it every time. And so when I, people are like, I, because now everyone's pumped for Caleb. But I was just like,

this is how it's going to end. And I told them how it was going to end before they were ready to hear how it was going to end. and if I would have just had the take, people would have really disagreed, but for some reason, the fact that I spent $140 on a jersey and became a prop comic for a minute

and, like, showed, like, I showed you how positive I was, that this was how it was going to end. Ooh, buddy, were people mean to me on the internet? Like, man, but it's so weird about the whole thing is that I'm going to,

to be right. Like, I bet Mitch Grubisky at 200 to 1 to win MVP, blew up in my face. I said there was a 0% chance for White Sox were going to hire Tony Larusa, blew up in my face. Like, I've been wrong plenty of times. We give 20 hours a week of opinions. You're going to be wrong all the time. But man, did people hate this jersey? But now it's going to be the number one selling jersey in the NFL for the next like five years.

So I'm a, I don't know if you knew this. I'm a fashion icon. I'm a trendsetter. I'm ahead of the curve. People are dressing like me now, and I frankly love it. But yeah, did I have it on my board that the thing that would make me most hated is the thing that I have been the most right about? No. I did not expect that to be how my career is gone.

But now people are being pretty nice because they're pretty excited about Caleb Williams. Should be pipeline to the pros, how D3 small college nobody's rose to rule in the end. NBA, Ben Kaplan, Danny Parkins, forward by Jeff Van Gundy. I say this authentically and accurately and with 100% belief. I think you're, how old are you now, 42, 43, 40, how old are you? I'm 38. Jesus Christ. It's disgusting how good you are at 38.

It's really such a bummer. I was hoping you were 54 and this was years of training and you, you were. training and you are really gifted and um oh actually hey i'm 37 i turn 38 in october oh you're just a jerk now now you're just piling on anyway you're great at what you do i love listening and uh congratulations on the book your career your ascension and i love you man i think you're i just i just think you're just everything wrapped in empathy curiosity smarts funny and a little bit of a villain that's okay it's fun yeah lebron didn't like it in Miami, but you know, it is. It's part of the merry-go-round of our life. I can handle it,

and it's just sports at the end of the day. So, like, I can't take it all too seriously. But, no, listen, thank you for the kind words and the platform and supporting this and trying to hire me a couple of years ago. I'm not done. I'm not done with that. So we'll make another run on that, buddy. I appreciate you, Colin. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.