The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - CJ Stroud Debate, Rodgers Rebrand, Dak Drag w/ Middlekauff

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

Colin is joined by 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff to discuss if Texans rookie CJ Stroud can see immediate NFL success despite the Texans issues, if they learned anything new from Johnny Manziel’s new Netflix doc, how Hard Knocks is helping Aaron Rodgers rebrand himself with the Jets, if Dak Prescott will be too much of a liability to win a Super Bowl, if the Jags are a legit AFC contender already, and why the Commanders still feel as dysfunctional as ever. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Herd #Volume #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Hi, everybody. Welcome in. Great podcast for 30 minutes today. John Middlekopf, former NFL scout, part of the volume team. His three and out podcast is money.

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minute deals. Lowest prices guaranteed. $20 off your first purchase. 20 bucks. Terms. apply. Colin, football season is upon us. Sun is out. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm, you know, I was saying today there's a lot more than you think. There are 10 teams in this league, and I won't count Tampa because I don't think they have what they perceive as a franchise quarterback in the building. There are 10 teams in this league from Mack Jones in New England, Kenny Pickett, Justin Fields, the Colts rookie quarterback Anthony Richardson, San Francisco, Brock Purdy. There's 10 teams in this league, Atlanta, Desmond Ritter,

that are really in the, we hope we have the right guy in house stage. And so tonight, C.J. Stroud is the first look we get at him. Now, his numbers were very good in college, but you can go up and down the list of last 17 years going back to Troy Smith. All Ohio State quarterbacks put up big numbers. So what was yours, as a former NFL scout, what was your view?

Your prospect profile of C.J. Stroudon. You know, I wasn't the biggest fan because a lot like Mack Jones and even Tua, who, you know, last year was better than I thought he would be. I think he benefited a lot from playing with Tyree Kill. It was just one of the great players of all time. But when you play with a team that has better wide receivers that you will have in the pros in college. Yeah. And that offense, it's like with Mack the one year in 2020, it was shooting fish in a barrel.

but part of it was he's a pocket quarterback he's throwing a wide open guys but then in that Georgia game he showed what I think the modern day quarterback needs to do right keep plays alive with his legs be a playmaker very instinctive

playing against I mean all 11 those guys when you play Georgia they're all in it's you're playing an NFL team especially on defense and he was he was awesome and I think that changed the perspective around the league because the big knock on him you know kind of an old school pocket quarterback easy offense

he has way better athletes than the rest of his conference for sure, right? You know, all the teams they play in the Big Ten. But that game changed my opinion. And listen, D'Amico is just a stud. And to me, he's the real deal. And if he signed off on you, Casario, kind of old school Belichick, they're big on character. So they really like this guy. Now, I don't have inside information. A lot of people thought the owner was force feeding it on them, which, which, you know, that can happen. That guy signs the checks and he's a little kooky. But yeah, I mean, I was definitely more bullish based on that big time performance, right? Because it really was. It was not. It was one of the better

performances of the season than any player. Yeah, well, Justin Herbert, game against Wisconsin, people thought he was mechanical. Then he ran against the Badgers. And Tom Telesco, the Chargers, told me he was there. And it was, it was a wow moment. It's like, well, he's making all Big 10 defensive players in Jim Leonard's system miss completely. in open space. And Telesco said, he said, you know, I had this high appraisal of Tua. And then I sat there and watched how big and lean and quick he was. And Badger linebackers who were all conference are missing on him in space completely. And it's like, oh, okay, we've got a franchise quarterback. So I do think a lot of times college coaches, John, if they don't have a capable backup and are playing for what

they perceive to be an elite bowl game or championship, they don't run their star quarterback until the last game of the season. No. Yeah, for sure. And that's where I think the event evaluation process could be very difficult, right? Because it's not often, right, when you're an offensive tackle and I think, hey, you might be a top 50 player and you don't play one guy who's going to get drafted off the edge, right? If you're in, let's say, the Mountain West Conference. It's like, yeah, I think he's got all the skills and he's got the intangibles, but I've never really seen them until the senior ball, which an All-Star game is not a regular season game. It's why the SEC thrives. Because you go, well, that's an NFL player. That's an NFL player. And for three

straight weeks, they're going to battle with third rounder, second rounders, and it makes the evaluation. Probably sometimes small school guys. They get drafted high. Sometimes they hit. And sometimes they're just big whiffs. And honestly, it happens at Ohio State and Alabama, too. But a little less likely, you feel pretty good when you draft a guy from Georgia, right, or Michigan right now than when you draft some of these random schools. Well, yeah. And his comp has been Jared Gough. Jared Gough was a wreck when he had the wrong staff. Then when he had McVeigh got to a Super Bowl. So if you're betting, really if you trust Amico Ryan's, then C.J. Stroud's story

probably has a happy ending. Because I don't think, I said this today on FS1. The NFL only gives us about one every five years. Burrow and Andrew Luck, a quarterback good enough to overcome nonsense. Bad old line, bad coach. Burrow did it.

Right? Burrow, we didn't know the coach. We don't love the owner. The organization's wonky. Battle line got hurt. Burrow just overcame it. Andrew Luck. Did it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as good as Trevor Lawrence and Herbert are, they had to get the right coach to get like playoff wins. So I think Luck and Burrell in the like, I think Caleb Williams has some of that secret sauce too. But I think C.J. Stroud falls into the Jared Gough. Right coach, right direction probably succeed.

Now, two revelations on TV this week. As a scout, the Johnny Mansell Netflix story where he didn't watch tape. Now, I was told for years by people inside the building with the Steelers that Big Ben would watch tape during practice. You know, nine in the morning, eight in the morning till four or five in the afternoon, but he would never take it home. Is that what Johnny Manzo was saying? Or is Johnny saying, you know, I didn't even really give a shit in the meetings. Because if he watched it in the facility and that he just didn't take it home, Big Ben

wasn't known as a voracious consumer of tape at home. You don't have a choice when you're in the building because the majority of your day is in a meeting room, right? you're only on the practice for two hours. So even if you're putting a seven, eight hour day, their meetings, position meetings, group meetings. If you're just awake, you're going to see it. I think what he was saying is I did nothing beside what was mandatory of the rest of the team.

And to me, my take this week was simply the majority of guys in the NFL are not Mahomes, Josh Allen, Trent Williams, Micah Parsons, are not the elite guys. The majority, just like in any business, are just all kind of in the same level, right? Now, because the NFL, it's such a. competitive industry, if you don't do everything to maximize it, you have no shot. And I'll never forget, I think one of his first games, because a huge part of his success in college was running around, right? It was running around. Even he said, this was like the best throw of my career. I think it was a game against Alabama. It's not like throwing, I mean, he was obviously played

quarterback, but he was known for his athleticism and making plays with his legs. Yeah. And then when he got to the NFL, I think they were playing, it was either a first or second star. I thought it was, I think it was a Thursday night game. And Luke Keekely, for every step Johnny took, Luke was taken about three and caught him within two seconds. And Johnny didn't even get close to running around like he was used to playing, even obviously the SEC has fantastic athletes. And I went, this is not going to work.

And I thought he was a pretty intriguing process, but didn't have a great arm. And then when you factor in zero work ethic, I mean, I watched it with my girlfriend, she looked at me like, this guy's a loser. You know, and that's just, that position doesn't translate to being a loser. The difference with Rathosberger, elite physical.

attributes, right? Yes. So you can get by with a little less work ethic, Shaquille O'Neal, Ben Rothlisberger, they're outliers physically. But he was, you know, much closer to the rest of the pack. And you're either growing or you're dying. And it's every team in the league has the saying, like, you're either getting better, you're getting worse, nobody stays the same. Because it is kind of true, right? The thing that makes Mahomes or Josh Allen or even the great players, Bosa, they're constantly getting better, even if it's just incremental and they're already way past you. So when you kind of are average and then you just don't improve it or don't even try. That's that way, honestly, it's pretty embarrassing.

You know, it really was to like take pride in not trying. Like this is a pretty big deal. Yeah, no, I think, um, it's, it's kind of that Baker, Texas, Oklahoma attitude. Yeah. You know, it's kind of, I've seen this Jay Cutler kind of the Southern attitude. Kind of, um, there's a coolness and a casual nature of it. Like I'm town. Will, Will Levis has.

some of this. It's kind of a cool. I'm quarterback, got a little attitude, going to show off the gun show, and they almost take pride, and I'm so talented, I don't have to grind. You know, Brady and Eli Manning, I mean, take Brady, not cool, a grinder. Russell Wilson, some say cringy, Kirk Cousins, you know, like, not cool. But I see Johnny Mansell, and it reminds me a lot of Baker, where it was like he's almost more concerned about being viewed as cool than winning football games. You know, I heard you say something today on the radio show that, and I've always thought this for years, is the disingenuous nature of the media when they get uncomfortable with the questions that are asked during the draft period? It's like a team is not just hiring some 23-year-old out of Oklahoma to pay him 75 grant.

If they're drafting the guy in the top 15, they were paying him millions. of dollars. Any other company that was making an acquisition, you know, first, a top 10 pick is getting 20, 25, 30 million dollars guaranteed. You do a lot of, I don't know, due diligence, right? When you make an acquisition of a business. The business is the person. So what are you going to do? You're going to look into the person.

And sometimes you've got to ask uncomfortable questions. And where do they usually come from? Your scouts, when they go into these schools being alerted to this stuff. It's not like they just pull them out of thin air. most of these GMs never enter the schools until the draft process starts around the combine when they're given all this information to hey, we need to look into this, this and this.

And sometimes that opens doors into other things. But the majority of the NFL, and you know a bunch of these guys, you've been talking to them for a long, are high-level guys. You don't have to spend that much time on their character. But there is a percentage, especially that are drafted pretty high,

that have some red flags, that you have to ask uncomfortable questions. Yeah, hey, Lane Kiffin told me years ago, he begged Al Davis not to draft Jamarcus Russell. One of Calvin Johnson, right? That's a high character, all-time great player. Yeah, so, you know, and Johnny Mansell was telling you what he was. You know, Maya Angelou, people tell you who they are, believe them. He was bragging about money and, you know, the money sign. He told you who he was. Cleveland didn't want to listen.

All right, the other TV revelation, not sure if it's revelation, but I thought HBO Aaron's using it as a rebrand. I'm a good guy. I get along with others. I'm not selfish. I'm not arrogant. And I think Tom Brady had a bit of a rebrand when he went to Tampa.

Like, hey, I have a personality. I'm fun. It's helped his business and endorsements. I thought Aaron came across says, hey, man, I got to do this thing. I'm going to rebrand it. And I think you can watch HBO and Aaron are trying to convince you, hey, I'm a different guy and I'm not the bad guy. The media portrays me as.

I don't think it's wrong. I think it's pretty smart. But that's how it felt to me. It's a rebrand. Aaron's all in and HBO's helping him. And I'm not criticizing HBO. I think they think that's an interesting, captivating part of the Jet story. Well, totally is.

I've been out on hard knocks. Every other show eventually gets canceled or stops and that keeps going. But if you're just going to give me Aaron Rogers, Hackett and Sala for four episodes, I'm in. Because I don't care about the random undrafted free agent that's eventually going to get cut. But I can watch Aaron Rogers and Hackett figure out this offense. That to me is intriguing. He's done a rebrand really since he showed up, right? I mean, the whole thing of being there in the offseason, taking all the young guys out to Madison Square Garden,

going to the concerts with, again, the young guys, which was the issue last year. Hey, Aaron, we got a lot of young guys. I'm not coming in the offseason. Then he pulls the Brady, which he deserves credit for, because I don't care who you are. $35 million a lot of money gives it back to help the team. And he even said, it's not even just for this year. It's about the big picture.

I'm in, I believe what they say. And they've clearly done a good job of this process of him believe in, trusting them. You and I talked about it a couple weeks ago. I think it's easier too when the super rich owner tells you like, hey, man, I'll cut this check for this guy. We'll do this guy. I'll tell Joe, we have no problem trading a first round pick next year. year if we need to go get our Trent Williams or we'll do whatever it takes for you right a little NBA style and that's how I think he's being treated a lot like Tom was treated so it's easy to be

happy when everyone's kind of kissing your ass like let's face it they're kissing his ass as they should be they're desperate yeah so you know a lot of times um the Dallas Cowboys are brought up and I'm and I'm guilty of this and I don't think I'm guilty I just think this is my business plan is when I was a local radio host you would talk about local teams when I got to the syndicated job, it became very obvious to me that you couldn't just talk any team you wanted to, that you had to talk the biggest brands. And that would accumulate the largest audience. So very early, I was into Brady and LeBron, Notre Dame football, Duke basketball, Yankees baseball. I've moved off baseball a lot since the 20 years ago that I started doing it, a syndicated radio. But the Dallas Cowboys, the Packers, the Steelers have a lot of reach.

but I actually think this version of Dallas, this season is kind of fascinating. DAC, and there's a clear correlation, the more you ask of him, the more mistakes he makes. I mean, there's a line of DAC markation. 35 or more throws, he's way under 500. 33 or fewer, he's a really good quarterback. And so his most efficient year as a pro was year one, Zeke, number two, rushing yards, best O-Line and football, Dak was on the cheap.

The next year, year two, John, if you remember, Zieg suspended six games. In those six games, Dak had five touchdowns and seven picks. The minute you asked him to do more, he provided more mistakes. Yeah.

So here we go into this year. He's been a pro bowler twice. In both those years, Zeke led the NFL in rushing attempts and yards. Zeke's gone. O'Line. Rebuild, working in a new receiver, lost in elite offensive coordinator, and DAC now is having a camp full of interceptions. I love this defense.

What are we going to get from DAC this year? Because there is a correlation. The more you need, the more mistakes you get. It's not arguable at this point. I think I'm not just saying this because you're here. I make a point to listen to you have Albert Breer on every week. I think he's he can articulate. He's to me one of the best hybrid of just knowing guys in the league,

articulating what's going on and just and being able to report just his interactions with people. And he said something to you about what McCarthy said to him about they're asking DAC to ad lib and be a little bit more of a playmaker. And when I heard that, my jaw dropped. Like Mike, this is not Aaron Rogers here, buddy. the reason he was a fourth round pick because his physical attribute, he's a good athlete, he does not have a great arm.

The clip of there was a pick, I don't know, he's throwing a bunch, but yesterday or the day before, like a post route where digs undercut it. Rogers, you can miss that ball deep. You can't miss it short. That's where the ball always gets picked off. And to me,

Dak is much closer from an arm standpoint to Alex Smith, to Kirk Cousins, play within the context of, the offense, I can have Rogers, Allen, or Mahomes, add living because they're throwing a hundred miles an hour. So, well, who did McCarthy have the most success with his career? Aaron Rogers.

So maybe in his mind, he's thinking that. If that is honestly their mindset, I think they're bad shit crazy. And that is going to be a disaster of just trying to have him be a quote-unquote playmaker. The reason Cousins is having so much success over the last four or five years statistically in his teams that their defense is good, consistently go to play. He just plays within the offense. And when Dak does that, he's pretty good too. But when he starts ad-libbing, I do.

I mean, that pass, his arm is actually for a guy that's big, right? Just because if you've ever met Alex Smith, he's 6-4, right, just because your 6-4 does not mean you throw 100 miles an hour, right? Pedro Martinez was shorty through 97. So Tim Linscombe was small. Some small guys throw harder. Baker actually has a pretty good arm for a small guy. Oh, Aaron Rogers is 6.1.5-218.

It's got a freaking hose. Yeah. So it just, it doesn't translate. So maybe it's because they're not as confident. Pollard's a little more of a hybrid back, not a true like pound it between the tackles, Emmett Smith style. But last time I checked when they were winning a bunch,

Troy Aikman wasn't a big ad libber, right? He kind of just played the position like it's supposed to be played. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

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Carolina for me, they played the Packers yesterday and gave Aaron some trouble. I have you know there's always a team in this league that doubles their win total so last year my big one was minnesota now they didn't double their win total but I said most improved team in the league so yeah so I got that one right I there's something about Carolina I love rike he makes your quarterback more efficient I think Bryce young is one of those lower ceiling but ready to play today I think their front seven's good I think their own line due to the draft last couple of years is now more than competent. You know, and the division's a little vulnerable. Carolina's my, as Aaron Rogers found out in the inner squad scrimmage, they got dudes. They got real dudes. Do you have a team like that for you that you just,

people look at it and say five or six and you're like, I watched Carolina a couple games last year without Reich. They're spicy. They can play. They definitely have a lot of talent. The team I told you, I think we talked about this over the summer, was Washington. I'm going to throw that take into the garbage. I'm not going there.

And I was kind of low on the Giants. I thought they would come back. But the one thing, if Darren Waller is healthy and high at the receiver from Tennessee that is running like Hussein Bolt, no one can cover them, they might actually, and now Sequan is in a good place. Maybe they get back to 1011. To me, the team, talking with some people in Jacksonville, I don't know how great the defense is going to be, but the division stinks.

Could they be a top two or three offense in the league? I mean, Doug Peterson is just tailor-made for modern-day NFL. His personality, his understanding, like, obviously he's the play caller. He succeeded there, him dealing with Trevor. Trevor last year, what, 25 touchdowns? Could this year be one of those, like, 38 touchdowns? You get Calvin Ridley, who I'm told is just, they're blown away by him. We saw Christian Kirk was a really good signing for him.

ETS, like the modern-day hybrid back. Now, you never want to discount Tennessee, and I have, but I do, you know, you got to take Vrabel very seriously. I think in a coaching draft, he'd be a top-fight pick. I mean, he's the real deal. But the talent's just not quite there. Could be a little bit of a comeback year. So I think the Jags, I don't like them as a Super Bowl contender just because their defense is

going to be good enough. But last year, I don't want to call it hollow because that was a big year, especially based on the urban year. But I think this year could feel more real than last year was. And you kind of see, like, they're a piece. or two away on defense, maybe get their Nick Bosa or their Brian Burns or something, then watch out. Well, yeah, I thought they played the Chiefs twice last year. And I literally watching both games, I had the same feeling. It's like the NBA playoffs, Denver two years ago. Sacramento

this year in the NBA. They're just not ready to win big close games yet. I think the Kings will be next year with Deerran Fox. And I watched Jacksonville. I thought, oh, they're a year away. They need to lose to Kansas City twice. They don't know how to win. They don't know how to put those 12 play drives together the way Mahomes and Reed and Kelsey. They're good. They don't know how to manipulate games. So Jacksonville, I think, has to get to that point. And that's a real thing.

Like the really good teams, New England manipulated games where they were outplayed. I think Kansas City does that. Big time. Yeah. And I'm like, Jacksonville just has talent. They just don't know how to, they don't know how to win games. They don't play perfect football. Well, they might win or lose the game, but the three guys in the AFC, Mahomes, Allen,

and Burrow never walk on the field against the other guy and definitely the rest of the league thinking that they're not the best player on the field and they're going to win the fucking game. And I wonder if Trevor, you know, for the first time in the league had a taste of that last year, had the big, you know, it couldn't have gone any worse, right? He basically, if he was a golfer,

hit like seven shots out of bounds on the first hole in the first half against the Chargers. And then to me, the mental fortitude, I mean, that, that, he easily could have gone in the tank. And no one would have blamed him. Like, you know, first playoff taste, bad game, threw a bunch of picks. He did not flinch, came back, made a bunch of plays.

So I would expect just a massive year from him. And to me, Doug has a personality a lot like Andy, very even keel, not a big screamer, offensive guy, former quarterback, you know, just kind of, he's just an NFL guy. He just gets pros. And I think he's going to be really good for them. He has been. One thing you touched on this week, and I want to bring it back for people that didn't hear it, is your take on Ron Rivera.

and Eric Bienemy where Ron not only stepped in it, he created it with the comments about Bianami. Take our audience here back to that because I thought it was a poignant point about in the NFL, there's enough landmines. Don't throw your own grenades. Well, to me there's a reason, and I don't blame coaches for lying, right? It's not, it doesn't behoove them to give out information that just creates chaos. Most people on the team are well under 30, live on their phone. You've got to be very careful. It's why so many coaches don't really say anything.

And when they do, it all leans positive. For him to come out and acknowledge, it'd be one thing right, if there was something simmering. There was a powerful story from a wicker sham from the athletic. It would be like, what's going on? He gets asked about it. Any kind of steps on it. You would understand it.

Maybe you got cornered a little bit in a press conference. That was not the case at all. I don't know about you. I hadn't heard anything, right? unless you knew a player or someone on the staff, no one would have been talking about it. So for him just to acknowledge that was borderline unprecedented. I mean,

you never see that in the NFL unless, you know, is he already trying to point the finger at him? He sees it not going well. Ron, it's not like Ron is some modern day progressive, easy-going NFL coach. This guy's an old school, screamer,

yeller, defensive guy. So he wouldn't have a problem with you coaching hard. Does he think it's not going well? Does he see our, quarterback situation is a disaster. I've seen some headlines multiple times. Part of the reason I started getting off them before this story even kind of came out because of Ron was because he kept mentioning Jacoby Brissette.

He kept, don't sleep on Jacobi Burset. I know. And I went, what? We've seen Jacoby. Just keep measure backup. What are we talking about? So maybe there's some butting of heads when it comes to personnel. You got new ownership.

Let's face it, if Ron were to go, seven and ten or like his, he would not. get fired, he's never going to get a head coaching job again. Like, this is his career's over. So it did feel a little bit like he's pointing the finger. Not just a bizarre story, just one you never see. You never see. Coaching hard, what does that even mean? You go to a practice in high school people are getting screamed at.

It's not even that weird. John Middlough, go low is his golf podcast, and three and out is his football podcast, full of information. This is fun. We'll be doing it every. week during the NFL season. I'm watching the game starting tonight and all weekend. Can't wait and we'll talk soon.

Have a good weekend, Colin. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.