The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Clutch Jimmy G, Russ/Seattle Divorce (?) and Rodgers Media Beef, Packers Playoffs, NFC North HC Firings w/ Tyler Dunne

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Colin talks about why Jimmy G's games are so unusual (3:00), the "painful" performance from Carson Wentz (6:00), the weekend coach firings and approaching Black Monday (8:00), what this season exposed about the Giants organization (10:00), and what he's heard about Russell Wilson's future with the Seahawks (11:00). Then, Tyler Dunne - founder of the Go Long newsletter - and Colin discuss Aaron Rodgers' beef over MVP voting (14:00), if Rodgers needs another Super Bowl to cement his legacy (17:00), the reason this Packers team is different from past ones (25:00), what the Green Bay media really thinks of Rodgers (28:00), the drastic moves the Vikings need to make (30:00), the best move for both Russell Wilson and the Seahawks (32:00), and the sleeper team that could stop the Packers (34:00).  Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. There's a lot of reasons. It's America's number one sports book. Incredibly easy to use. Super safe, totally secure. Super fast payouts. In as quick as two hours, you're not going to get that anywhere.

Also, same game parlay bets, live betting. It's the best. Hey, if you're new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app. I did it in 15 seconds. Get started now. Sign up. Please use the promo code Colin so they know we sent you. Please use the promo code Colin, C-O-L-I-N. Fandle Sportsbook app, sign up. Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Monday morning podcast. Tyler Dunn, founder of GoLong newsletter, it's a Packer's newsletter. We use him half dozen times the year he's great on Packer Insight. Before we get to that, my thoughts on what I saw this weekend. First of all, the

Rams 49ers has become the best rivalry in the NFL. It's the Raven Steelers of 10 years ago. The difference is I think it's a smarter game offensively. You've got two really good quarterbacks. Back then it was Flacco and Big Ben. Now it's Stafford and Jimmy G. And believe it or not, Jimmy G is good. You know, I say this all the time about Jimmy G.

He's the opposite of Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins shrinks in prime time. Kirk Cousin shrinks on the two-minute drill. Kirk Cousins is not a guy I ever trust in the biggest spot against the best team. Jimmy Garoppolo is the opposite. He'll flail in the second quarter, in the third quarter. You get him late in a big game when it matters. He's really good.

I mean, people point to the Super Bowl. He led Mahomes for three quarters. Yes, he missed on a deep throw. Folks, Michael Jordan missed free throws. Like, these are pro athletes. against pro athletes. But I just think it's a great rivalry. You've got two of the smartest, if not the smartest, offensive coaches in football.

Both teams can be physical. The Niners, it's really entrenched in their culture, the physical run game. I would say as much as I like the Rams, what concerns me is the Niners and that power physical running game has their number. The Tennessee Titans had their number. you can push the Rams offensive front around. It's a highly rated offensive front, and it's clever and it's smart, and there's a lot of miles on those tackles. They've been around this game for a long time,

but too often in big games, I feel like they get pushed back. Now, it should be noted. This game had much more sudden death urgency feel for the 49ers. They win they're in. And they also, the Niners feel like a playoff team to me. Give me a great coach. give me a power running game, give me playmakers on offense, you know, give me a pass rush, give me physicality. That is emblematic of playoff teams. It's like, am I surprised the Titans record is as good

as it is considering Ryan Tannahills the quarterback and they lost Derek Henry for a big chunk of the year? Yeah, but they give me so many things that playoff teams do, smart, physical, great coach, playmakers on both sides of the ball. So the Niners are in, they feel like a playoff team. And once again, Jimmy G. In a big spot in that two-minute drill or in overtime delivers. It's remarkable to me. Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo get more crap than any other quarterbacks in this league.

And for the life of me, I can't figure it out. All right. So one of my favorite people in the NFL is Chris Ballard, the GM of the Colts. they missed out on the playoffs because they gagged at Jacksonville. Listen, when they went and got Carson Wentz, what were the options? I mean, Philip Rivers was old. So I thought it was a good move. I still think it's a good move.

And if you look at the contract, it can very easily be a two-year deal. This is not a college draft of note for quarterbacks. Ballard knew that a year ago. Everybody in the NFL front offices knew that a year ago. This would not be a big college draft. So last couple of years, they've picked up young guys. They're basically putting band-aids on a problem. They have a great Super Bowl roster, and it's Philip Rivers to Carson Wentz.

There are just some players that their DNA, their football DNA, is reckless. They're often big physical players, Sam Darnold, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz. These are not finesse guys. They were the big guys in high school, in college or a junior college, and they were physically imposing their entire lives. So they're playmakers. And that's Carson Wentz. I mean, there was a play in which an offensive lineman didn't have a lot of help. And Carson Wentz tried to make a play. He was not blindsided. He tried to make a play. They were already trailing and they were going to lose. But it was so Carson Wentz, it was painful. He just

doesn't have a governor on this engine. He plays one way. It's all out. And those, Those guys are, you know, they're what baseball loves right now, strike out or home run. That doesn't work in the NFL. I mean, Matt Stafford's got his issues, but he can go on eight, 10, 12, 15 straight completion streaks. He is really, really accurate. With Carson Wentz, what were their options? I still think Carson Wentz was the move. They can get out of the contract.

It's not punitive after next year. In that division, Carson Wentz is still more physically gifted, I believe, than Ryan Tannahill or anybody Houston has right now. So they'll probably run it back with Carson Wentz. But this is the downside to having a playmaker at quarterback. All right. A lot of coaches are going to get fired. Mike Zimmer is out in Minnesota. Vic Fangio is out in Denver.

Matt Nagy is out in Chicago. reportedly David Cully in Houston could be in trouble and Matt Rule in Carolina could be trouble. You know, my wife used to work in HR and she always said, you get yourself fired. That's not necessarily true in the NFL, although if you look at key decisions throughout the course of the year, you know, these guys didn't do themselves favors. But none of them have a great quarterback yet. And that's why they're getting fired or potentially getting fired. And they're all getting fired for different reasons. Matt Rule's getting fired because he has a really impatient billionaire owner, and he rolled a dice on Sam Darnold.

David Cully is getting fired because he wasn't a big time hire in the first place, and maybe they all along planned a one and done. Vic Fangio is getting fired because his quarterback isn't getting better. Drew Locke had a pretty good weekend, but over the course of the year, he's not elevating the quarterback position and the offense. It's a pop gun offense with way too much talent to be that. Mike Zimmer, it feels like they're trending in the wrong direction. He doesn't have a great locker room presence. He's not beloved by players, and they're going in the wrong direction. Matt Nagy, many people feel he's smart, engaging, good guy, but did he butcher the Andy Dalton, Justin Fields platoon?

So they're all getting fired for different reasons. In the end, though, it's very similar on one thread. none of them have an A quarterback. Herm Edwards told me this years ago. I wouldn't be coaching college and I wouldn't be broadcasting if you gave me a top 7, 8 quarterback in the NFL. The worst team in the league and the most hopeless team is the New York Giants. And I said this last week on Fox Sports,

is that I can make an argument that the Jets were at least getting better at the end of the year, specifically Zach Wilson, the young quarterback. I can make an argument. I mean, the Lions beat the Packers. They've got some nice skill people offensively. They need to shore up the defense, go heavy in that and free agency in the draft. But there's a pulse there. I can make an argument.

The Houston Texans found Davis Mills. There's a reason to believe in a weak college quarterback draft, you may have found your guy. Go get 7, 8, 9 new starters in the draft. You may have found your guy. Davis Mills can make a lot of throws. The New York Giants are the exception. I don't see a way out. Joe Judge, there's arguments to be made.

He's lost the locker room. They don't have a quarterback nor a succession plan. Dave Gettlement butchered too many free agent signings and draft picks. And are we sure the Mara family are great owners? Or they just hit a home run on Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning? To me, that desperation, especially because it's been so many years of futility, that desperation points to the giants trying to solve a lot of their issues

with one big swing. And that big swing could be Russell Wilson. I think Russell Wilson wants a new coach and would prefer an offensive coach. I was told this weekend a very interesting story by somebody over the last five years that was in the scouting department for the Seattle Seahawks. And we were talking about the situation in Seattle, and I said, I like John Snyder, but they have whiffed on so many first round picks. In the last four drafts, they've hit on a punner and D.K. Metcalfe.

And I think the latter's a tad overrated at times. And the source told me, he said, I like John Snyder and Pete Carroll, but Snyder too often deferred to the coach and not the scouting department. and it's cost them dearly. I think Seattle has a lot of issues. I think they have the weakest roster in their division. I think they have a quarterback who does not have a consistent run game to support him. I still think D.K. Metcalf has a number one wide receiver body but is inconsistent.

I think they have a lot of problems in Seattle. O-line needs upgrading. Dwayne Brown had a bad year. cornerbacks are bottom 10 units in the NFL. So many issues. I think Russell Wilson wants a new coach and he won't say it publicly. And I do believe, and Jay Glazer reported this, it's a keep your eye on the situation in Seattle. I think Seattle's Pete Carroll is too loyal to Ken Norton.

I think the schemes defensively feel outdated. How many offensive coordinators can they go through an offensive line coaches? So I think if you ask Russell Wilson what he wants, it's a new guy at the top. And 70-year-old coach or franchise quarterback, I think the decision is very easy. Well, John Snyder, who has deferred to Pete Carroll on so many drafts, have the guts to encourage or advise the owner and the ownership group to do that. But I just don't think you can run it back if you're Seattle. I don't think you can run it back. And Russell Wilson is aspirational.

He's told people that I know. He has no interest staying in Seattle. If this is the trend, he doesn't like the current drafts. He doesn't love the offensive line. He doesn't love the lack of a consistent running game. And all of these are true. All right. Let's bring in Tyler Dunn, founder of Go Long, the newsletter, a great source for all things Green Bay,

all things NFC North and a lot of NFL sources. So let's start with this. That hub-archish Aaron Rogers situation, what's funny about it, Tom Brady would not have reacted to it. Russell Wilson would not have reacted to it. I don't think Patrick Mahomes would have reacted to it. I don't think Justin Herbert would have reacted to it or Lamar Jackson.

Aaron not only reacted to it, was hyper aggressive. And it's, how did that land for you that he went right? I mean, I don't care. I thought it was funny. It's just, it's football theater to me. But how did that land? I mean, I'm sure all Packer fans supported him.

But for you, how did it land? Right. I think that we all, we all heard the comment. And it's, it kind of catches your attention when you hear somebody who's voting for MVP, use that for reasoning. But you're, I think a lot of quarterbacks. I think Tom Brady maybe says. between five to eight words and has no reaction to something like that.

But that's what makes Aaron Rogers different. He cares about this stuff. He cares about what people think about him, what they say about him. His antenna is up 24 or seven. Yeah. People are telling him what's being said, what's being written.

And he's going to react. He is really in effort mode. And he said it himself. He's going to react to these things. And I think that the MVP award, Colin, this season especially, you know, to the narrative of his career. I think very much like, kind of like Kobe Bryant was so consumed with, you know,

the narrative of his career and kind of scripting a movie, Kent Bab wrote a great story, I believe in the Washington Post a few years back on this. Some athletes, they care deeply about that story arc and how they'll be remembered, I think this MVP award more than any other, more than maybe anything means a ton to Aaron Rogers. So yeah, when he hears that, he knows other voters might think that way, and he's going to go nuclear. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I said this the other day. I said when I take the last two years of Aaron, which he's looked so good and so effortless, very merino-like, it's just easy. I said, Eli Manning needed two Super Bowls, especially over Belichick and Brady to become a

a Hall of Famer. Big Ben, I don't think he's better than Aaron Rogers if he had three. I don't feel like this Super Bowl for Aaron. I really don't. He's a top 10 quarterback ever. He's maybe a top five talent. There's an Elway.

If Elway would have won one Super Bowl and that's it, I'm good. It's still one of the most remarkable. Marino never won any. And I've really come to terms with Aaron that I always liked him more than Farb. I thought he was a smarter version of what Green Bay's quarterbacks had been, Brett Farv. But I really looked today. And, you know, Aaron said after that first Super Bowl, he said, this is it.

I thought it would feel bigger. And would it be crushing to him if he didn't win it? Because I think he knows now. I think Aaron knows. Listen, I'm a top 10 guy ever. I'm going to beat the records, the regular season stuff. I mean, what if Aaron loses in the second round? Is it a crushing thing?

Does it influence where he plays next year, in your opinion? Boy, it was really interesting last year when, I mean, immediately when they lost to Tampa Bay, what happened, Colin? It was he threw his future into the darkness instantly. Like, I don't know what's going to happen. I mean, I don't know. I mean, we'll see. and he kind of changed that narrative.

It wasn't one and four in the NFC championship game. It was how could Green Bay do this to Aaron Rogers? How could they put him in this mental space where he might not want to be there this year? I remember Matt LaFlor was asked about him. He's like, dang right, I want him on this team. I want to be the quarterback. I don't really know where that's coming from. So to answer your question, I think if they were to lose in the NFC championship game,

again, we might get something like that, right? Where I don't know what he really thinks. I don't know what he really feels. I'd be completely speculating, but I do think that if they do lose, it's going to be instantly, meticulously. It's kind of somebody else's fault. You know, at this point last year,

he was doing a big story with one of his allies out there that, you know, he's not a victim. He's not a victim, right? He's in this amazing mental place where he just learned to let go. And then they lost that game to Tampa Bay. And then what did he do for six months? He played the victim. And he drew the Packers,

dragged the Packers through the mud and wanted his GM fired. Didn't exactly shoot down that report. So we have to believe that. I don't know. It could go either way, right? They win it all. He's a hero. They're building statues.

They're naming streets after him. And Packer fans love him forever. If they lose, it could go that direction again. I think it's resolved sooner. I think he's right there. It will be resolved sooner. But I do think it will probably be somebody else's fault, not his.

And that being said, I think they go to the Super Bowl and maybe when did it. I don't know who really scares you in the NFC right now if you're Green Bay. All right, the college football championship is here to celebrate Fandall Sportsbook, hooking up new customers. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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What worries me about Green Bay, and I've said this for several years, they're pretty. Like, if you tell me, Aaron's going to be great, they're pretty, they're not great coming from behind. But they're pretty, the winner division going away, my interpretation of that is, yeah, that's what I've seen for the last 10 years mostly. Early in the year, I thought there was a physicality that really impressed me. And then I watched them play Cleveland and Chicago. And I'm like, they're not putting these teams away. And these teams are running the ball on them. And I thought to myself, oh, they're getting pretty again.

And they are. They're the best watch. Kansas City and Green Bay are just, it's fun. You know, Buffalo's got that component. Knockouts, big plays. Are you concerned at all that teams like the Niners or the Eagles or if Leonard Furnett comes back or Sony, Michelle and Cam Acres that you can run and take Aaron out of this game? Because if you look at the yards per carry aloud, Tyler, it's bad. It's like 28 through below.

Great point. We forget about Fournette. He was playing so well. Right before that injury, that Colts game, it looked like the Buccaneers. We're going to run through him 30 to 40 touches the game if they wanted to. I think it should concern Green Bay to an extent. I think that, yeah, you don't want your MVP quarterback on the sideline just neutralized over there while a team's running and running and running. But I think Green Bay can kind of play that game too.

I think that's what maybe makes Green Bay dangerous is, you know, they can play the shootout style if that's what it turns into. But they can play that grimy game. they can win that 23 to 13 game if they have to. They can unleash AJ Dylan and all 250 pounds of muscle on you and Aaron Jones and run the ball. I mean, their line's been been beat up all season. Now they're getting David Bactiari back. I feel like this Packers team, unlike past Packer teams, can A run the ball with a, with a mashing back and bad conditions. You know, the one year that Eddie Lacey was in shape and was doing that, they had the crazy NFC championship,

lost to Seattle. So other than that, they haven't had them back. They had a rushing offense like this with Aaron Rogers. And defensively, they're opportunistic. And it's always tricky to play that way, you know, to rely on turnovers. But man, Roussel Douglas, it's always somebody, Devandre Campbell, Sean Gary, somebody knew every week making a big, big play. There's a gnarly component to this defense they just haven't seen there come January.

So I feel like they can win. that type of game that you're describing still. For the people who cover Aaron, because my guess would be, you know, fans will always have Aaron's back, especially when he's winning. But for the people who cover Aaron, yourself included, if you took a vote anonymously, will he be a Packer or not? What is the vibe today?

I think that, man, I think right now people would, the educated guess would be he's back in Green Bay. I think you would take him at his word that he's had these productive conversations with Brian Gutikens and Matt LaFleur and he loves Nathaniel Hackett. I mean, they're really, really close. I would think that if it's about football, then you obviously stay, right, with the team that's around him. I don't know where you're going to go. That's better than this. And the autonomy at the line of scrimmage to do whatever the hell you want, he can do whatever he wants in Green Bay.

I'm not going to get that elsewhere. So I think if you add that all up, you lean toward that, but this is somebody who changes his mind, you know? Who knows? Whatever Aaron Rogers is thinking right now, he could change his mind with a win or a loss in the playoffs. He easily could do that. I mean, I think it's for real that up to the 11th hour,

he was seriously considering retirement into this season. I mean, when he said that at the press conference, I don't think it was bluster. I mean, everything I was hearing, everything everybody was hearing, this was real. like he was okay stepping away. That could be a possibility. Maybe he retires.

So I still think, Colin, it could go in a million different directions. And it's up to him. But it's also for the team. And I think there's also a lot of money ramifications. How in the hell are you going to keep Aaron Rogers and Devante Adams? You know, if you're going to pay Aaron Rogers what he's worth, pay Devante Adams what he's worth. I don't know if you can. Those are cab gymnastics that I don't know if anybody could pull off.

Some thoughts on the division. Mike Zimmer is fired. Agree with it and who do you think or hear they'll go after? Haven't heard anything on who they'd go after, but this is something the Vikings have had to do for a long time. Right. I mean, this is a team that's just kind of stuck in eight win, nine win, even 10 win purgatory where, man, okay, you're competing. You're making the playoffs. You're building a new stadium. you're filling up that stadium. You're selling hope. But I've always felt like until they're willing to take those five steps back,

they can't step forward. I mean, they could have moved on from Cousins. They could have gotten out of that and taking their owl into 2020 and just said, all right, you know what? Let's move on. But they doubled down. They tripled down.

They did their own cab gymnastics to try to make a contender, that COVID year. They dragged it into 2021. And I don't know. I think you got to blow the whole thing. up and you need a coach, I guess, who can beat Green Bay. I mean, you need that that's the team that's still in your way. I think you still have to operate like Aaron Rogers is going to be there for a while.

And they're right back to where they really have always been since 0,8, 09. Matt Nagy out. I don't think either one of us is surprised. You go into a season with a veteran like Andy Dalton and Justin Fields. It's rough. That's why Kyle Shanahan just stuck with a veteran. And there's an argument to be made that, you know, that's a safer route. And now, you know, field struggled.

Andy was better at the end of the year, but not in the middle of the year. Do you agree with the move and gut feeling on which direction they go? I have questions about them. I like some of their offensive pieces, but the defense is old. They have too much money in the front seven. It feels like to me it's closer to a rebuild than they want to acknowledge. I agree. You can talk yourself into their drafts. You know, Ryan Pace, you can, you can kind of talk yourself into this third or fourth round or that third. You know what? Go back to

Kevin White all the way through. I mean, you've got some pretty epic mistakes, epic bus. And that stuff adds up. I mean, I think that they're, you know, more, they're their further way than they'd like to believe as well. And it's just, it's a matter of quarterback. It's going to be, we thought this past off season was nuts. This offseason is going to be ridiculous. Like what there's so many teams that are quarterback hunting and so many quarterbacks regardless of what they say publicly, hello, Russell Wilson are probably going to want out. The Bears thought they had Russell Wilson. Everything I was told, they thought that was a done deal. They were going to get Russell Wilson. And at the 11th hour, it didn't happen. And, you know, they were willing to basically give Seattle anything other

than Kaleomack. And I think John Schneider was all in. I think Schneider was ready to move on. Maybe he was even a little tired of Russell Wilson. Okay, let's turn the page. Pete Carroll did not want to. Pete Carroll's oldest coach in league. He wanted to win now.

And so they get him an offensive coordinator that and try to get him to buy into that offensive coordinator in a new way of doing things and away from the ground and pound and running the ball all over the place. And Russell Wilson was kind of talked off the ledge from what I was heard or heard from his quarterback's coach, Jake, he keeps. see he talked to him he got him to buy in and they won what seven games this year i i know he's going to say nice things about seattle i know seattle was going to say nice things about him it's best for seattle move on and it's best for rosa wilson move on he wants to own a team one day he wants

to be surrounded by billionaires he wants to go to a different market yeah i i think there's no question he will not return of pete carroll and in my opinion some outdated schemes uh he'll believe if that isn't changed. Finally, Green Bay gets a buy. Who should they be worried about as a potential first round playoff opponent or a first opponent for them? Who would worry you? Who do you think deep down there a little skittish about? Love the question. I think it's San Francisco and it's weird to say, I mean, this is a team that, God, I was banging the drum for Trey Lance. It's like, man, if you're going to give away all these firsts for somebody, just play and move on. But then you watch a game like that tonight.

And Jimmy Garoppolo threw two picks. But man, through a thumb injury, he made some big throws. He does just enough. He's got playmakers all over the place. Debo Samuel is unlike anything in the NFL with what he can do. Elijah Mitchell as a rookie back, maybe one of the more underrated players in the league. George Kittled the best tight end. They're going to get Trent Williams back.

The defense is loaded and made a ton of plays. They're not going to be afraid. I mean, they're not going to be afraid to go to Lambeau field and grime it up and force a couple turnovers and run the ball. Like you said, to keep Aaron Rogers off the field. They really should have beat Green Bay earlier in the season. They gave that one away. That scared me if I was Green Bay that they snuck in. Yeah, I agree.

And I also think you could put an occasional package in with Trey Lance, which you haven't done a ton of in the regular season. But, I mean, you're playing with House money. Green Bay struggles against the run. You put in a red zone player two, a couple of sets, a series with Trey Lance, catch the Packers off guard. The Packers, again, are going to sit out for two weeks. They'll be a little rustier.

I think that's a fascinating matchup. When you face these teams, especially if San Francisco goes into the playoffs, they just beat the Rams. They win a first round playoff series. They are a mile high. Yeah. Playing with house money.

Those are frightening teams. Tyler Dunn, great seeing you, great 25 minutes, buddy. We'll talk soon. Anytime, Colin. Thanks so much for having me, man. You bet. All right, he's Tyler Dunn, the newsletter. We've talked about it.

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