The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Coach K on Tourney Upsets, NIL Explosion, UConn/San Diego St. Breakdown

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

First (3:00), Colin gives his take on the controversy surrounding LSU’s Angel Reese trash talking Iowa’s Caitlin Clark during the Women’s National Championship game,  predicts the Men’s title game between San Diego State and UConn, explains why MLB rules speeding up the game are good for MLB business, and why he's bullish on the WWE/UFC merger. Then, Former Duke Head Coach and five-time national champion Mike Krzyzewski joins Colin to discuss why the NCAA Tourney upsets are here to stay, what it was like for Duke's new coach to replace him, dealing with the NIL issues, why this college basketball season was so unusual, his reaction to the idea of a position-less basketball team, the NBA star who was too far ahead of his time, how he knew which recruits would turn into stars, the coaches he loved facing, his memories of Duke's legendary win over UNLV, how UConn regained powerhouse status and why it's crazy to say there were "no blue bloods" in this year's Final Four, his approach to recruiting, and the things he doesn't miss about being a coach. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Hi, everybody. Welcome in to our Sunday night YouTube or Monday morning podcast, whichever you prefer or saw first. Three things to talk about. Number one, it got me to a television set. I do not watch as much women's basketball as I do the NBA or men's basketball,

but the Caitlin Clark story at Iowa got me to a TV set. set. You know, kind of a Steph Curry phenomenon in terms of shooting from a distance, few do, setting records. But I had predicted on social media that LSU would win. Iowa was a cool story. LSU was a deeper, better team. And I also felt much like TCU when they got blown out by Georgia.

Remember, they expanded so much energy against Michigan in the upset. And then they fell emotionally and physically flat against Georgia a week later that Iowa came out and it was such a big emotional win over number one South Carolina. They were bound to be flat. And they were. Plus, LSU was deeper, longer, better. So, you know, listen, there's a lot being made of some of the taunting at the end of the game. I've come to terms with over the course of two hours, three hours of physical competition, stuff happens.

coaches say things to refs that they probably regret. Players make moves, talk trash. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't regret. But the right team won. LSU is a deeper, better team. And Caitlin Clark was just a really great player, great story. But I felt like it was a fairly predictable conclusion.

I also feel like San Diego State, with a last second win, it will be impossible to duplicate that energy so high after beating Florida Atlantic that they're bound to be a little flat against Yukon. And like LSU and the women's natty, I think Yukon and the men's natty will separate about halfway through the first half and win the game going away. I just think it's really hard, be it TCU football, Iowa, women's basketball, San Diego State, college basketball men.

When you have these like historic, shocking, expansive wins, you just can't duplicate it the next time out a few days later. So I think the Huskies, the Yukon Huskies will end up being crown national champions on Monday night. Something else that we talked about, we talked about it a couple times. But Tyler Kepner is a baseball columnist for the New York Times. very, very good. In fact, his book is a history of baseball in 10 pitches, which I haven't gotten to yet, but I purchased it about a year ago. I'm going to get to it. So I follow him a lot and read his stuff. And he already statistically noticed this. Games are now faster in Major League Baseball,

two hours 41 minutes. That's the average. Steals are up, more base runners, 87.5% success rate. And more batted balls are turning into hits. All incredibly predictable. Now, the diehards, the rigid baseball seamheads will say, well, the game's not better. Remember, TV networks pay the freight. They don't care what's better. They care what drives a rating. And long does not generally in sports drive a rating.

Sucinct short can help. So you could have a good baseball game, but if it's three hours and nine minutes and two hours and 40 minutes, the chances it will be slightly higher rated are with the more succinct shorter game. And so what you're going to see happen this year, not that it'll be a major renaissance, but you will see an uptick, I would imagine, in Fox ratings and ESPN ratings based on the brevity of the action. It doesn't matter what's better. What translates to a better rating? what's more compelling. What can people stay watching longer? The pitch clock speeds the game up.

So it's different in football. Again, it's once a week. It's okay if a sport asks you to hang around for three hours and 35 minutes if it's once a week. Baseball, you got five, six games a week. You've got to speed it up. Can't be a three and a half hour schlog. And so New York Times, Tyler Kepner, already. The pitch clock, the eliminate.

of the defensive shift are already paying dividends and there's no looking back. Baseball sees it. It's exactly what baseball wanted and it's happening in a week. Here was another story. I probably like the business side of sports more than you do. But I like it. And one of the cool things about owning this company, the volume, I can talk about what I want to talk about.

And a lot of this stuff I don't talk about on FS1. or Premier Radio. So the WWE has been purchased by a company that had previously purchased the UFC. Now the WWE and the UFC together will form a separate company. And here's why it's interesting to me. I know Nick Con and Dana White, who run the WVE and the UFC respectively. And boxing, because it's been so poorly managed forever. has really wilted and mostly vanished.

There are occasional fights I like, but it's just not consistently delivering entertainment. And I said this years ago, and I covered boxing in Vegas, that the UFC took advantage of the scarcity of boxing matches, the cost whenever there was a good one. So UFC, whether you like it or not, just delivers a more consistent product.

WWE, same, delivers a more consistent product. And so to combine those two for a new business to me is utterly fascinating. And I went to the WrestleMania with my son on Saturday night at SoFi. I knew I could watch on YouTube TV highlights of the college basketball games, which I did Sunday morning. So the best way to describe 80,000 people at WrestleMania is if you take yourself or you take life too seriously, you're probably missing the point on WrestleMania. I don't think my son, who's not a big sports fan. You know, he likes to ski, he likes to water ski, anything in the pool he's good with. You know, he's played a little basketball, a little soccer, a little football, but not really a team sports kid.

The environment, I haven't seen him laugh like that. I haven't seen him smile like that for three straight hours. I couldn't tell you when. It's just a spectacle. And, you know, I watched it as a kid, and then he used to lampoon, make fun of wrestling fans. But then when you have kids, things change. And as a dad, I'm always looking for connecting points with my son, who's very much into science and tech, two things I'm not necessarily into. So I'm always looking for, like, connecting points.

And so I told them, I said, we're going to go to this. And I have a feeling. You're not going to know all the storylines, but you're just going to boo and share. Thumbs up, thumbs down. And we got pretty good seats. And I got to tell you, it was as good a night as I've had. in a long time. And I've said this before.

My wife isn't into sports. She loves going to UFC because she likes the spectacle, the crowd, the glamour, the cocktails. My favorite sports to go to for years and years was boxing, but there's just not that many fascinating boxers or boxing matches. So I just found that story at WWE and UFC being combined. I can't wait. my wife and my son's favorite thing to go to. And now they've morphed. Can't wait.

I want to bring in Mike Shoshiewski, the legend coach K, who as you know has retired in the last year and John Shire has taken over that program at Duke. We got a lot of things to talk about. He'll talk about that Yukon basketball team, which I think is going to be the national champion on Monday night. With the NFL season over, all lies in the sporting world. turn to everything from the NBA to college hoops to the NHL. Plenty of games to watch are even better.

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Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, Podcasts Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Mike, I thought it was, it's an interesting year.

I follow recruiting, so Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, Yukon are having very vibrant recruiting years. So I imagine next year the big brands will be back at the top of college basketball. That's my guess. Or has the transfer portal created a new phenomenon where the San Diego states, the Florida Atlantics are going forward going to have older players, elite transfers. How do you view this wacky kind of unique March Madness this year? Well, I think it's a sign of the times, Colin. And I think there's going to be a mixture.

And they're going to be more really good teams. I'm not sure how many great teams. Because to be great, I think you have to be together for a little bit more than one year. And so over the years, we've had good recruiting classes. And we've been able to try to mesh them in one year. And then a lot of them go. Well, now, when they were talking about one and done, they're about 1,100 one and done's in the transfer portal. And so, no, each year in the last few years, so probably be more this year.

And so how can people build chemistry in one year? And so the people who go to the transfer portal a lot, they're going to have to spend time trying to figure out how they develop culture. I just think like when the year started, I said it's going to be wide open. And I didn't think it would be this wide open. But it's wide open. And I don't think anything's going to change next year. You know, replacing a legend is hard. I think you did it the right way.

You gave it a lot of thought. Right. And John Shire to me really works. But have you ever thought, okay, because if I'm John Shire, I'm like, okay, I want to be respectful to Coach K and the culture, but what if there's something I really like that really is different than Mike? Like, have you ever thought about replacing you as not the easiest thing in the world? Well, yeah, I've talked to my wife about it and at times she said that it wouldn't be that hard, but most of the time she said it would be hard. You know, it's not just picking the right

person, but giving the amount of time that's needed. John was with me for nine years and when he he was announced as the head coach, we had a runway of about 17 months before he ever coached. So he could recruit two classes on his own. In other words, with them knowing that I'm not going to be the coach and the developed of relationships that were needed. And I think you saw it this year. He had great relationships with his team. And we had an outstanding year. I've always told me, just be you, man. Being you. A lot of what you are will be us because we've spent so much time together, but you can't fill someone's shoes. Just be comfortable in the shoes you're wearing and you know our culture and you develop it the way that you think is right. I have all the confidence in the world in John.

I am a big fan of new things, but also regulation, be it Wall Street or Tech. I am for the transfer portal and NIL. but there needs to be guard rails for everything. It doesn't matter if it's our freeways, our government, Silicon Valley or college sports. It was a little to me wild, wild west for the first 15 months. It was just the gold rush, right? Is there anything you see so far if you could make a change and go like on the NIL? Let's start with the transfer portal because the NIL, some schools are just not going to partake in it,

but transfer portals here for everybody. Is there anything you would say, hey, let's be very careful of this or maybe alter this? Yeah, I think, first of all, Colin, you know, both concepts are really good. There were intended consequences that are easy to see, you know, an athlete should be allowed to, you know, to benefit from their name image and likeness. an athlete should have the opportunity to move. And so, okay, that sounds really good. But if it's a business, you say, okay, these are the intended consequences. What would be the unintended?

In other words, put the guardrails up before you let the horses out. And once they're out, like, I don't see how you can control NIL completely. And it's a free market. Yeah. Like if you have a better NIL than me, what are you going to give it up? Is someone going to put a limit? Where do we put a limit on anybody in our society and how much they make? Right. And so the transfer portal, I think it's been confused a little bit with the extra year of COVID. You see, I mean, that combination, NIL, add that to it. Add that to it. And so you have guys who, they're at three different schools.

They're in a five-year period. I think the average age was a year and a half older this year than it's normally been for college and for college teams. And the thing that happens, too, when these kids stay, there are less scholarships for the high school kids. And so that was not an intended consequence. I think, you know, I think, first of all, if we think Congress, is going to solve all this. We've got to be loony tunes here. But the main thing Congress can do is to make it equitable in every state, which it isn't.

Transfer Portal is equitable. NIL is not. There are some states that don't allow it. And so it's got to be equal for everybody. And, you know, my big thing, I wish we could take men's and women's basketball and make its own entity, just like football is. And be autonomous. Have a certain foundation of rules with the NCAA, but let our two sports.

Our sport be run like a business, have a marketing plan, have, be autonomous. Football is autonomous. The game of basketball is not. Speaking of the game of basketball, I just read where the NBA is proposing going forward a positionless all NBA team, which, and I remember years ago, I worked in Portland. This is a long time ago. Bob Witsitt was the GM. And I remember Bob's smart guy saying, Colin, you guys in the media get too caught up on positions. I just want good, good long, fast, twitchy basketball players. I don't care.

So Bob was about 20 years ahead of me. Right. Unintended consequence, I do like an old school point guard who distributes first, score, second. That's me. I'm probably outdated. What do you make a positionless basketball? Or does LeBron make everybody think it's easy or the truth is positions are pretty good? It's just LeBron's blown it up because he can do anything.

Well, you know, your love for the point guard, I'm a point guard. So in some essence, you have a love for me. but maybe it's not that big. But the old-fashioned point guard just doesn't exist or it's like an extinct animal right now. You know, really, in the late 80s and early 90s, we started at Duke, what I call positionless. I always used to tell my staff and family, look, this isn't a baseball team. There's not a third baseman. They go to a position.

why the heck do we have guards forwards and centers? Just introduce them as players. In other words, like you and I are two of the top four players on a team, and we are both the two guard. Am I only going to play one of us, or am I going to play my four best players? I'm going to play both of us. So why put a limit on us saying that we're two guards?

We're really good basketball players. and both of us can shoot. I always like saying that because I wasn't referred to as a good shooter. That analogy. Actually, I feel pretty good about it. Well, you were a defender and you were tough. You had the many of the Chris Paul qualities I like, which is that's where I'm very much about,

I like the new basketball. I think it's very, very skilled. I covered Arvita Sabonis, who was pre-yokic, almost like a point-sense. No, he would have been the greatest player, one of the great, if he was here young, you know, young, like in his early 20s, he would be one of the top five or 10 players in the history of the game. Yeah, no question about it. You got him later in his probably mid-30s or something like that. Yeah.

But he was a great player, not a good player. Oh, I mean, Mike, he would hit a 24-footer and he would make a behind-the-back pan. I got the heavy-footed Arvita Sabonis. Yes. A remarkable player and a fun guy to cover. So do you remember because really what you, you, you, Nick Saban, it doesn't matter if it's Beheim, Mark Few, your talent accumulators. So what you're doing is you're and you're finding kids who aren't fully developed emotionally, physically. It's very difficult.

A pro football coach, I get four years of film through college. I know what he can. can't do. You're taking kids. I'm a late. I'm a, I blossom late, I think, in my career. I think a lot of people do. Um, how often do you see a player? And did you know instantly, oh, okay, that person will be a pro. Now, at Duke, I think a lot of people would suggest, oh, it's Duke guys. But you've recruited some three star guys in your career. I can follow it. How often did you see a LeBron-ish player and go, okay, that's done? Or do players develop more slowly than most of us think?

Yeah, well, there are a few. I mean, you can see Zion, if Grand Hill was in this time. Yes. You know, those players, Jason Tatum, you know, Bagley. Wendell Carter could have probably stayed another year. But no, you can see it. But you also can see like where are their bodies? In other words, do they fit the dimensions of an NBA player?

Winkspan. It's not just height. It's wing span. Speed. Okay. And then are they, where are they emotionally? Yeah, we try to recruit kids with good character because they're going to, in order to not just to get there, but to stay, they're going to have.

have to have balance. And so we're able to see that pretty much. With the guards, like when I saw Tyos Jones the first time, I said, wow, this kid's like a machine. Now, he is an old point guard. Right, right. And when he has his name on that ball, you can't, when he throws it, you better catch it because he doesn't want to turn it over. When I saw him the first time, I said, I got to have him. I didn't know that he would be a pro. right away. I felt that he would be a pro after a while. Mike Dunleavy, when we recruited him, he's out of Portland. Yeah. And he was six, six and a half, 175, had no hair on his chest, did not shave. Three years later, he was six, nine and a half and two 30. And so there's some guys,

Brandon Ingram, when we recruited him, I told his parents, they were going to the McDonald's game. I said, we're not allowed. The first day, you know, the pro people will be there. Your son will be a top five draft pick after the workout. And they said, what do you mean? I said, he's got all the dimensions. He's got, you know, not only that, but he can play any position. He can be a guard.

And so you can see those type of things and predict them. And some kids, you can't batty-eat did not. fit. He wasn't a great athlete. But after a while, he became, he was intellectually ahead of others. And in today's game, the younger players are not, they're more athletic, but they're not as savvy about the game as the players even five years ago. That's something with all the workout guys and that. They're great, but they teach you stuff with the ball. And if we're playing a 40, minute game in college, if you have the ball three minutes, that's a lot. So you better learn the game without the ball. You got to learn to get your shot before you get the ball. That's not

taught to the level that it used to be. So I think we're getting better athletes, but more undertaught players as far as the game goes. I always love when the Patriots play the Chiefs because I get a chess match between Belichick's brain and Andy Reads. I love that. I love when they play. Was there a coach, and maybe it's a well-known coach, it's a Jim Calhoun, it's a Dean Smith, Smith, but is there a coach maybe that I wouldn't think of off the top of my head that you love the intellectual chess match, that he was just move for move.

You always knew it was not only between Duke and a team, it was between you and that coach. Yeah, I think the frequency of the time competed against Dean Smith, you know, because he was a remarkable coach, and he had immense loyalty from his players. You know, he really wanted great coaches of any sport. my buddy, Jim Valvano, this spontaneity of doing anything at any time. There was some predictability with some coaches up to a point,

and then there was the unpredictability of like Jim. And, but sometimes you play against the, you coach against the team that you say, I don't know if I can coach a team better than John Becker at Vermont, you know, and who year after year just produces that high level of team. I thought one of my good friends, Fran Duffy, who got back into college coaching when he was to coach at Penn, he was on a decade movement of just he got it at a high level. But I think you weren't from coaching against all different types of people, but those are a few of the ones that made an impact on me. I remember covering, I was a young sportscaster.

I was in Denver. Bobby Hurley had a bout with stomach sickness. I'll leave it at that. Yeah. And so I remember you saying it could have been to me or a group because I was in Vegas as a sportscaster. Right. You, and this meant so much to Tark.

I can't tell you how much this meant to Tark. You said, we play hard at Duke. I've never seen any team play that hard between Gurgrich and Tark. And I covered Tark. You have no idea. You and Mickey were very complimentary of him. It meant so much to him. And I look back at your career.

And I think that's one of your great moments because that team was stocked. Yeah. So you lost in Denver the following year. One of your stars was a true freshman. You'd been beaten badly by him the year before. There was a psychology there. Go back to the time you beat you in LV. If I said to you three or four moments of your career,

I remember walking out of that game and thinking, I don't think the media gets what just happened. I thought it was just an incredible moment. You know, I've done a lot of speaking. And since I retired, I did a couple commercials. I've done some things. One of the statements and one of the commercials was close the gap. And we were able to close the gap from 90 to 91.

Grand Hill helped us close that gap. Yep. But also the experience, we were pretty good. But then we got to be really good. And the 91 semi-final Final Four game with Vegas is one of the epic games. in the history of our sport. Yeah. One, I had Jerry Tharkhani and I were good friends, and I had ultimate respect

because anybody who can get his team to play that hard with that, especially that level of talent, you got to be crazy good. And, but we were really, really good. And I thought what helped us in that game was that it was a semi-final, not the final. they had won 45 in a row. They had beaten us. Psychologically, we have an advantage.

You know, we do have an advantage. And they had destroyed everybody. No, not beaten. Crushed. Crushed. Everybody. So we got, we were talking about, if we can get them in the last few minutes, we've been there before.

or they haven't been there before. And everyone talks about Leitner shot against Kentucky and which they should. But one of the defining moments for me was Hurley shot with just over two minutes to go. I think they had gone up by five

and Tark went to his amoeba defense. And before I could say anything, call out anything, Hurley comes down and he jacks up with three and he hits it. So for me, I think in possession, There were three two-point possessions up. His shot knocked it down to one two-point possession.

It was really one of the biggest shots for my career that a player took. And I didn't call it. I didn't call it. And then we were fortunate. We got their guard filed out. And Greg Anthony. and Weightner hit some free throws, and God bless America. You know, we won.

A lot of sad people in Sin City. Believe me, I was a sportscaster there. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I want to pivot to Yukon, San Diego State. So I had Duke winning. I felt it would be

a hard bracket, a hard marks to predict. I didn't think there was a great team. I thought there were a lot of good ones. And then after about three games, I just said on the air, okay, Yukon's going to win this thing. They're really good. And Hurley, the coach had said in January, early January, there's a quote. He said, you better get us now because we're figuring things out really quick. So I tend to like them over San Diego State.

You've had many classic battles with Yukon, the toughness of the program. their ability to find talent everywhere. You've watched them in this tournament. If watching them from outside, what makes them good? And why do you think it took them a while to figure it out? Well, they have a lot of new pieces. And Danny and I are really, we're really the Hurley family and our family. We're bonded together.

You know, to me, to me, what they've been able to do, they have great depth. Okay. And by the way, I hate when people say there are no blue bloods in the final four. You have to be kidding me.

What Jim Calhoun built, you know, one of the great coaches, but also maybe the greatest builder of a program, you know, since 1999, they've won four national championship.

Yeah. Maybe give them a different color, but certainly they're at the level of all the teams of the few teams that you say are blue bloods. And so what they have is incredible depth. They stay fresh. You know, I've been amazed at their rim protection, their backup center, how good he is. And their bench, their bench comes off feeling like their starters. And I think any coach, if they use eight or nine players in a game, if they can teach and get across to their players that when you're in, you're not replacing anybody. You be you and have a starter's intellect.

I think all of them have starters intellects. And they're not afraid. They are not afraid, just like they're just like their, just like their, coach. And I want to commend Danny, too, because I've watched him mature as a coach. He's always been a good coach. A lot of times he was fighting referees more than the other teams. Yes, that's right. He admits that. Yeah. And he's changed that completely. But, you know, and they could keep it going. They, you know, they have a lot of underclassmen. It'll be interesting think to see what happens with a success of maybe a national champion, will the guys on that

team stay? But let's try to win a national championship first. Well, what strikes me is you say Dan Hurley has changed. You did with one and done. I think the great coaches in my lifetime. Nick Saban, there's a great New York Times article talking about Lane Kiffin. And he and Lane could have battled, but he came to an understanding when Lane was on his staff is, I can't stop these offenses anymore. Years ago, Alabama was known for linebackers. Now they're known for quarterbacks and wide receivers. The world changed. And you were very good at that where the one and done, I think your comment was, well, I started getting beat by him, the one and done.

So I must well take a few to my program. Do you remember the epiphany, Mike? The moment you're in a car. You're talking to Mickey that you just said, okay, Mike, get over, Mike. I got to evolve here. Right. Well, I don't know if there was one moment, but over a period of time, you know, we stopped. Yeah, remember in the late 90s guys could go.

We recruited Kobe Bryant, LeBron left, Kevin Garney. And so we stopped looking like I just did a. about a month ago, a conversation with LeBron. And he and I are very close. And he said, you know, you didn't recruit me. And I said, I knew I wasn't going to get you. And he started laughing. He said, you're right.

And so I had that mentality for a while. And then these guys had to go to college. And I don't know, over a period of time, I said, why aren't we recruiting these guys? But don't, these guys are not different than the guys we recruited. In other words, they got talent. They're pretty good academically. And they got good character. So really, it wasn't, it wasn't that we recruited a different kid.

We recruited kids that might go or had a chance to go. And that was a good decision to make. That was a really good decision to make. Yeah, Stanford admits with some of their best students, if you have an idea, it will beat the diploma. You have to leave early. And I think that to you, you came with an understanding as, listen, they're all good kids. Some are just going to be able to leave early. Like, that's the world we live in, right?

No, and you mentioned, you know, Duke is the same way. And there are young men and women here who don't complete their four years because after their sophomore year, they're starting. in a startup company. But we're the one or kids in other sports, you know, in tennis or golf or whatever. There were kids going early, but because of the spotlight on our program, it appeared that only our guys went early. And now everybody's the one and done. I love how, I love how that's how that's changed.

Finally, before I get to Affleck, there's a lot of things you're going to miss, the camaraderie, although you still have that because you have an office. But is there anything that you think, you know, I don't miss Blight? Now, there's a list of the things I don't, I don't know. The main thing that I don't miss is preparation. You know, in other words, everybody wants to win unless you're an idiot. You know, do you want to win? Yeah, I want to win.

Somebody says, I want to lose. Says, I'll see you later. I'm going to talk to the person who wants to win. But not as many people prepare to win. You know, I've coached some amazing anal preparers, LeBron, Kobe Bryant, JJ, J.J. Reddick. And I was kind of that way. but also preparing means recruiting. And so much time, it wasn't to change the transfer portal,

it's just too much time. I'm 76 years old and, you know, I've coached almost 50 years. I don't miss any of that. And like people say, boy, with the final four, I'm excited for these guys. You know, I've been there a lot, won, lost. And now it's okay to watch. The one thing I do miss is the development of a relationship with a young man.

And I still keep that somewhat with John Shire. You know, even though I'm not at practices, I'm tried to keep away in games. So it's his thing. But privately, we talk many, many times. and I've loved that level of relationship that he and I have. And I'll always have that. But yeah, I'm okay. I'm having, I'm busy.

I'm happy. I'm doing a lot of speaking all over. And anyway, I've been the luckiest guy in the world, coaching at West Point, Duke, and 11 years with the U.S. You've got to be kidding me. You know, it's been an honor to do all those things. Yeah, I think successful people have a threat, a common threat is they are grateful. Yeah.

It's hard. Everything's hard. Parenting's hard. Coaching's hard. Life can be hard. Aging is hard. But you're grateful for it. And you can tell.

I think you look great, by the way. The Zoom cameras often don't make people look the greatest. You look healthy. I just walked my dog. too, that I have a new dog, one-year-old lab. His name's coach. His name. I didn't name him, but, and we have a lot of land.

So he's, I love, I love taking him out and running around. And we got him at eight pounds and eight weeks at our basketball banquet. He's just over a year old, and now he's 82 pounds. to the to the very last you know days of my mother's life a wonderful lady she her animals give her such incredible joy and i got that from my mom we've got buddy and yosi and finny in the cat and we have a little bit of land in utah we got goats and three horses and there's just something about the love it just keeps you young they make me laugh yeah and like this morning you know him we have some streams here and that he'll run through

streams, he's jumping. And look, I got two artificial knees and hips. When he starts doing all that stuff, I said, man, I wish I could do just a little bit of that. So finally, I love that you're doing Affleck because I think Saban's really, really fun. We see these football coaches. We see Mike Shoshchewski is very intense. But it's playful. It's fun.

I think Affleck gets it and talk about it. Well, I love doing it with Don Staley. I think she's one of the really great people in sport. And I love doing it with Affleck because I really believed in what they're doing. I didn't realize there's such a gap between, you know, what insurance pays and then the bill. Huge. Huge. So I got educated. I've been out recruiting too long.

and I didn't know that. So they said, you know, we got a goat, we got a duck. It's the Affleck duck, and we got the Gap goat. And I said, all right, let's see how that works. I said, but one stipulation, I'm not going to talk to any animal. Okay, I'm only going to talk to Dawn because I know I'll get it. And the expertise that they put together to put, you know, for these, commercials there are 130 people there you know like you're doing it over and and over again and

and i laugh with the yeah i'm i got some street cred from the commercials really uh and especially being with dawn the duck and the gap goat holy macro yeah well about once a year you and i get a chat and i've always appreciated um and you text me from time to time i always appreciate uh that i know you're a very busy person. I learn things every time. And I just, Mike, it's been a pleasure to cover you in your career. And I just want to thank you again. Yeah, thanks a lot. And by the way, I'd become a big Las Vegas guy, you know, with U.S., we practiced there for 11 years. And we go there all the time. And it's ironic, you know, it's ironic that although the first time I coached the U.S. team in an exhibition game there.

They did boo me, all right, even though I was the U.S. coach. But I understood it. I didn't take it personally. But Vegas, what they've done with Vegas sports-wise, it's incredible. The final four will be there in a short time. And hopefully an NBA team will be there in a short time. Good to be any coach. All right.

Thanks, Carl. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite unhumor me. with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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