The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - College Football Reaction: Does Ohio State Need A Coaching Change? USC Getting WORSE Under Lincoln Riley

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Colin’s college football reaction is presented by JLab! He’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the biggest storylines from college football They discuss why head coach Ryan Day isn’t able to maximize Ohio State’s incredible talent and continues to lose big games, why Lincoln Riley hasn’t worked at USC, and why the Trojans might be trapped. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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find the blue box at Walmart, Target Best Buy, or go to J-Lab.com. Love their stuff. The Blue Box. Let's go to Michigan 13, Ohio State 10. We have to talk about a couple of college football situations. So I did not think, I think this is the biggest, in the history of this rivalry, it's got to be the biggest upset. Michigan passed for 62 yards, had two picks on the road and still won.

I mean, Michigan hasn't thrown the ball. Michigan's a very easy team to defend. They can't pass. You can be hyper-aggressive. So I thought one of the things I compared to, today in my car, I did a little thing on Twitter. I compared Ryan Day, the Ohio State coach. I wouldn't fire him, but there's a clear hole. He's Mark Rick. So Mark Rick had been a quarterback coach like Day, was an offensive coordinator like Day, and then got a blue blood job.

And I always felt when watching Georgia under Mark Rick, he had several top 10 finishes, but in the big games, you never felt they got the most out of the roster. And that's exactly how I feel about Ryan Day is that he can recruit like Rickt. He's a nice guy like Ricked. But those Georgia teams never had an identity. They just had really good players. Even when they had like, I think Matt Stafford he had. Like he would have, they would have moments and you'd be like, oh, my, this team's the best in the country. And they won a lot of big games. He won three out of four games he coaches. And Ryan Day wins five out of six games he coaches. But they have no identity. And I thought that game. Here's my take. So Ryan Day is one of those guys that, you know, Urban Meyer, he wins at

Bowling Green. He went at Utah. He went to Florida. But the time it gets to Ohio State, he has got a lot of confidence. His shit works. Jim Harbaugh, my shit works, right? Ryan Day, what does he fall back on? So remember when he got really defensive when old Lou Holtz took a shot at him? and they won a game and the post game, he takes a shot at rickety old blue holds. And I'm like, wait a minute. Why do you care about that? Because he doesn't have a history of success. Mark Richt did neither is that when you, you know, Saban, Michigan State, LSU, Alabama, NFL, people can take shots at you.

You have a formula that works. Ryan Day doesn't have a formula that works. He's two and four in Bulls. He can't beat Michigan now four years in a row. And I thought the game plan was fascinating, John. He was trying to prove how tough Ohio State was in the first half. Say, bro, you have major matchup advantages at wide receiver. He wanted to prove, hey, people say we're not.

This game's always decided by rushing yards. I'm going to prove, I'm going to blow this hole. I can't coach tough football teams because he got very, defensive with Lou Holtz questioning that. And this is Ryan Day. And we'll get into Lincoln Riley in a second. He's a little lost. When you start worrying about voices outside the building and narratives and it starts changing your game plan. Their first half game plan was embarrassing. Like what was it? He was trying to prove we can win tough. Just win the damn game. You know, I've had this theory with politics for a while that sometimes the media is detrimental to candidates and a certain party. And I think, you know, CNN and NBC, right, are in the headlines a lot, a lot that no one's watching them anymore. Right. They're losing a lot of viewership.

But their clips go viral. And I'm on a million text chains that see them constantly. And they're constantly lecturing people that whether it was Biden's cognitive ability or that Kamala was. a great candidate. And eventually the people are like, yeah, just come on, right, pump the brakes.

And I think for a long time, there has been a media apparatus that has told everybody, you Ohio State fans are lunatic, get lectured them, that they're lunatics and this guy is ex. Look at his record.

And it's like, guys, most human beings now, over 30 years old, have been alive long enough to see Pete Carroll, Urban Meyer, Nick Sabin, Kirby Smart,

dabble. Like, they know what a really good coach looks like. They also know that the Big Ten, beside a team or two every once in a while, is not very good anymore. Yeah. Most of these teams, like beating Nebraska and beaten Minnesota, when you're at Ohio State and you have unlimited resources,

is not that impressive. So you are basically paid to beat Penn State, Michigan, and the other top teams that you play, whether it's Notre Dame or whatever you play in the playoffs and stuff. That's it. Like, no one, you get no credit for beating the shit out of Minnesota, Nebraska, whoever. You better win those games, but no one cares.

It's like James Harden scoring 50 against Sacramento Kings in January. Like, I'm sorry, no one puts any stock into that after a while. And I think everyone getting lectured constantly about Ryan Day, Ryan Day, it's like, guys, we've seen them in these big games and it's something's off. Right. Something's off. And in this game specifically, right? The last couple of years, Harbaugh has had a team that was elite.

Yeah. So you get beat. That happens. Kirby Smart's lost. Last year, Michigan had better players than Ohio State. They had 70 guys drafted or whatever. This year, you, like, we've all seen. crazy games. In college, we've seen 20 plus years insane. That to me, obviously we've seen

bigger outcomes like Vince Young. That was a national championship game, right? Or even Ohio State lost or won national championship. In a regular season game, I think that's one of the crazier outcomes I've ever seen in my entire life. Start to finish. Because not a person in the world, especially a Michigan fan, would have bet on Michigan. And as the game was going, you kept thinking yourself, this can't be happening. But he tried to get into a heavyweight fight with the one thing Michigan can do. And Chip deserves Blank too. Run it up the middle. It's like they're two good players with the defensive tackles. You have

three NFL guys. But I keep thinking that after the game and everyone's shitting on Ryan Day, it's like, well, they've been lectured for five years that he's a great coach. And it's like, I'm just waiting for him to beat another. Like, we don't care that he's beating James Franklin now four straight times. Yeah. Like you can't beat Michigan,

which in this program clearly is borderline the equivalent of like the national title game at this point. And he loses against the other good teams. when he plays them in big spots. So you're watching him and you go, the cockiness, the third base comment, most guys that get those jobs,

Jim Harbaugh to get the Michigan job, had to coach at San Diego, Stanford, and then win at the 49ers. You know, this guy had never been a head coach, and he got the job and handed to him by one of the greatest coaches of his era. So Ohio State fans literally know what it looks like with Urban Meyer.

And you go, well, we're not that physical. We have this pass. And here's, I was thinking about this too, because I've been critical of this guy for a long time. Sarkeesian's got Texas in the SEC championship year one. Yeah. And I'm watching him last night, and I went to watch him live,

Sark takes his offensive guy, like Ryan Day. Well, he's also the play caller. So half the game is his baby, right? And the program's his baby, but the play calling. Well, Ryan Day is, like, turned into the CEO, even though he's this offensive-minded guy, he has to hire Chip Kelly, and you're watching him on offense just look terrible

against the Michigan team. Their best corner, Will Johnson, who might be like a top. five pick. It's like Travis Hunter 2.0 at corner is out. You're slicing. I was like, what are you guys doing? Like you're supposed to be an offensive mind yet chips call on the place.

And then your team's not that tough. And I do think to look after the game where they plant the flag and he stands there. It just listen, they're in the playoffs, so you're not going to fire him today. I don't see how this moves forward. I think it's very possible

that this type loss they could just lose immediately in the playoffs depending on who they play. But I do think Ohio State fans, and I'm an Ohio State hater, but if I was in their shoot, I'd be tired of being lectured constantly by, and listen, I get it, Joel Clatt and all these guys, like Ohio State is a huge part of the business. And they're awesome. I like watching them too. But like we have to ride a day, like Kirby Smarts, the Knicks-Avins, like he's at Urban

Myers. He's not even remotely on their level. No, he's not. It's not even debatable. No, no. He is much closer to Mark Richt, who, you know, George is better now without Mark Rick, who was a really nice guy. But, I mean, I had an NFL GM tell me years ago.

He'd love drafting Georgia guys under Mark Rick. He goes, because they were, he goes, if you drafted a Nick Saban guy at Bama, he'd already squeezed all the juice out of the player. Yeah. He goes, these Georgia guys, like, they still had two gears of shifting, you know, like, they were always like, oh, they're way better than you think. The other thing is that the transfer portal and the NIL have actually created parity. And I was talking with a guy today who's a, he runs a message board for Ohio State. And I said, you know, you used to be able to, years ago, when you had 125 scholarships in the John McKay era for USC, you'd take like four running backs in the West Coast just to hog them, even if you didn't play them. And then we got down to 85 scholarships.

And you can still do a little bit of that. Nick Saban can do it, Kirby Smart. Well, now a backup left tackle at, let's say, Ohio State. Louisville comes in and says, we'll pay a 300,000. dollars. You're a starter for us or a right tackle at Ohio State. Well, he's, you want to be a left tackle and she'll scouts that, you know, whoever's got money, whatever team, Texas A&M could say, come here, start at left tackle. So there's less depth. And then an Ohio State could lose an elite offensive tackle where it's always been my whole life. The top programs have tour, they have

backups that would start except for there's a first round guy in front of them. Well, that guy now just goes and plays at a lesser program. Gone. And so if you have an injury, so let's say you're Georgia and you lose, you know, Brock Bowers and then a tight end gets hurt. And the other tight end who you had, he got purchased by Wake Forest or somebody or Oregon. Well, now you're, now your tight ends no better than the guy at Purdue. So these teams like Alabama and Georgia and Ohio State,

if they have a key O line injury or a linebacker injury, they don't have great backups. Those guys have been purchased in the NIL to go to lesser programs. And I mean, I know a program that was, I mean, Washington, I mean, they were in the Harbaugh Michigan teams. They were like, okay, who's not starting that we recruited, who's a five-star guy, who's behind a, you know, a sophomore who's got two more years there. That's the game now.

I think Ohio State, though, if you look at this, this offseason. It's well reported they spent 20 million. Yeah, I think these numbers, yeah, could be 25, could be 18, could be 12. You know, who knows the actual number, but they spent a lot relative, and I think widely considered the most of any college football team. And they bought Ferraris.

I mean, Caleb Downs would start for every NFL team immediately. He's great. You know, they bought multiple sweet players, and then they signed Kansas State's quarterback, who some believe was not going to be their starter anymore, because the other kid that was

coming up that played this year, they were going to go to him, a little more dynamic. And you look and you go, well, shouldn't, if you're going to buy a Ferrari and a Rangerover and not have a garage, like, it's a pretty risky move. You know, Cam Ward was clearly the guy, but you go, Chip Kelly Ryan Day, I bet they wouldn't really love Cam Ward. A little bit, you know, it's not really their type player, especially Chip. Yeah, doing his own thing. Will Howard, you're, well, Howard, that's, yeah, was much more their type guy.

And you watch Kyle McCord at Syracuse, who just takes down my aunt. He's had a pretty good year. They blamed everything on him last year. And listen, he was up and down for him. But I think sometimes in this NIL era, when you're paying people, especially quarterbacks a lot of money, you can start doing finger pointing where in the history of the sport, you would just give that guy a couple of years to be a starter. And maybe that one year you look back, you win the national championship the next year and you go,

we live through that. Look what Harbaugh did with J.J. McCarthy and that crew of guys. They lost that devastating game to TCU, right? It was hard to stomach a couple years ago. Everyone came back and they won it. Well, now in the NIL era, if you're just pointing the finger, you make a couple guys transfer, they're not good enough, you upgrade. How could you lose a game where the opposing team, if I told you at the start, how much money would you put on Ohio State? If they're starting quarterback through for 60 yards and through two picks, you'd be like, I bet they win the game 40 to 10.

I thought they'd kill them. I thought it was going to be. I honestly thought 38, 13 would be close. I thought it was going to be a blowout. you just can't you just can't fake toughness and i've been around these coaches long enough and know these guys and these nfl teams and these programs some guys have it and some guys don't and a small percentage truly have it like urban mire nicks avin it's not about like your size or you're a coach but you're like everyone when you walk into the room they kind of their

shoulders kirby clearly has it right it's a small percentage of guys and ryan he's not bad like but he was also handed, I think, the best program in the country with unlimited resources and we'll do whatever he wants. And they are regressing. Four straight times to Michigan. I think he's a loss. We'll see who they end up playing in the first round. Let's just say they play Tennessee. That's what I thought.

They play a team like, and they lose. I mean, now who are they going to hire? Like, it's Mike Vrable's not coming to college football in this era. Right. So it's like who, you know, do you hire the Iowa state coach? There's no. You might just get the same thing. Like, you're probably not getting Nick.

Saban or Urban Meyer, you know, the next version of that. So you're just, this is where they're kind of, you know, it's not that bad, but it's clearly not good enough. Because if you can't get Michigan now, like, you just beat a team that was so desperate they paid a kid $12, $15 million to be their quarterback who's 17 years old. That's the team you just lost you. All right. I want to finish USC Notre Dame.

By the way, Marcus Freeman, the coach for Notre Dame, Peter Schrager is reporting this. tonight. This is the second person I've heard it from. Marcus Freeman. The Chicago Bears are interested, culture builder. So just throw that out there. That's being talked about in NFL circles. Notre Dame coach Marcus Freeman. Would you, would you leave Notre Dame making $10 million a year to the Bears? No. If you had to answer to Kevin Wilson, I would not either. No. But it's interesting. They can't get rid of Lincoln Riley. He had his contract turned over. So it's nine years, 90 million left. They just put 300 million in other facilities.

Their collectives up to 18 million. So it's not a money issue. Their collective is now up to $18 million. I was told by an agent yesterday. That's not it. But it's so they're not going to get rid of Lincoln. They're not going to do it. USC is not going to buy them out.

It's not the SEC. And his best talent is young and their defensive line talent, they've recruited the last two years is much better, blah, blah, blah. But this goes back to the Ryan Day thing. So he was handed an Oklahoma program. And the culture was set. And he was very clever. He was a better offensive guy than Stoops.

So he goes to USC and he doesn't really have to build a culture because Caleb Williams is so much better than everybody else in the conference. And they win 11 games. Should have beaten Tulane should have won 12. The following year, about halfway through, you're like, wow, they have to replace the defensive staff. He deserves credit for that. But if you, I believe, and somebody said this to me, they said he's getting, why isn't he replacing offensive coaches? They have one good, not great offensive tackle in the program, three years in.

The backup left tackle is 6-2, 3-10. He's a center. They have one really nice, draftable running back in three years. He's leaving. They don't have a draftable defensive player on this team. I think Camari Ramsey, the safety is draftable next year. Notre Dame's a better football team. Should have won.

It's not that. But now we're going into year four. Forget the defense, which is better, but not elite. They don't have enough good offensive talent. This quarterback they have is a Hammondegger. I mean, either he can't read the middle of the field or they don't trust him. Everything's up the sidelines. Everything's bubbles green up the sideline.

They don't throw the ball of the middle of the field. What I am hearing is he is alienated L.A. high school coaches. I mean, they're L.A. recruiting stinks. So USC is trapped here. They can't buy him out. He's gotten stubborn on the offensive coaching where they're just not getting outside a receiver.

They just don't have good enough players, forgettable running backs, forgettable tight ends, don't have any tackles outside of Elijah Page left tackle. When they signed him to a 10-year deal, you thought you were getting a steal. I'm nuts. This is the first time I've really, I look at it and I'm like, wait a minute. they're getting worse every six games from the beginning of Caleb's first year to the next six to the beginning of year two to the last six this team beat LSU at the end of the year the last three years they're not very good football team that is bad coaching if i would have told you in august that they would have one more win on December 1st than UCLA he would have said john put down the drugs i thought UCLA was going to win like two games this season and honestly that It's not like they beat the brakes off them. That game probably could have gone either way.

Yeah, the fourth quarter, it was close. UCLA being five and seven and you being six and six. What a disaster for USC for the Big Ten. UCLA has no money in their collective. USC has 18 million. So it's not a fair fight. Well, let's, you know, we were talking about Ryan Day. He inherits Ohio State.

The recruiting mechanism was already set in place, like what Lincoln had in Oklahoma under Bob Stoops. it was already the guys flowing there. He just had to keep it rolling. And he's done that. It's why his disasters are 10 and 2. Everyone wants to fire him. Lincoln would die for that.

Lincoln had to start it from scratch. To me, if you don't nail the best players in California, obviously the Transfer Portal has changed classes a little bit. That's pretty embarrassing. And I get this is not the Pete heyday, but like, why do Kirby and Nick and the guys that win in the South win? Because they nail the players in their region. Yes.

And there it's harder because you have to recruit. If you're at LSU, you at Georgia, at Alabama, you know, Florida ever got good. Now Tennessee, you're all recruiting against each other. Like, obviously, Oregon has to come down to Southern California, but you still have a huge advantage. And everything the nostalgia of the Reggie Bush of what it used to be, it's just got to be gone. If you meet someone now and young people that work for you and, you know, I'm around young people, like a 25-year-old was born in 2000, right? So that guy in the heyday of Liner.

and Reggie and Lendell White was five or six years old. So those guys that are now 18 years old, think about it, they were like the Clay Hilton era. So this nostalgia of what used to be exists to me and you or older people, not to the people that matter the most. And if you piss off these high school coaches, like the high school coaches are the lifeblood of someone's program because they funnel you guys.

I mean, they're very, very important. Obviously now money changed hands, but to me, SC, like Caleb Downs, whoever that, the equivalent of those type players every year, it should be between Ohio State, USC, and Texas. Like if they're not in on every,

and why are Sark and Ohio State's roster is so good because they're buying all the sweet players who are available? And obviously they recruit really well. Is Lincoln going to have a top 10 recruiting class this year in the nation? Top 20? 12 to 14.

And here's the problem. Ohio State, even with, Ryan Day, it's not going anywhere. If they keep them for the next five years, they're going to win 10 or 11 games every year. Oregon clearly is going nowhere. And listen, we can. We'll see what, James.

Jedfish can recruit. So Jedfish will get that puppy to nine wins fast. And I've heard that they did not use much NIL money this year because they wanted to take a deep breath. They're going to be blown it this year. So they will be aggressive. And Penn State, we've already seen the stats over the last six years or seven years if they would have the playoffs. They'd be in it every year.

And the one thing James hangs is, hat on is recruiting. Yeah. Right. It's one thing you say, James Franklin is great at recruiting. Right. In game coaching, recruiting.

So I, you could argue this could just, nothing could change. You know, six and six, maybe they're eight and four. But I don't know, they'd have to catch lightning in a bottle.

I don't know if you're ever going to see the Lincoln that they bought. I think this might be the new normal, you know, which is when you're paying that type of premium, what was that building, was that a home game for Notre Dame? No, it was 75. It was 80, 20 USC. It was a, Notre Dame was not an apathetic group yet, but they've got to be pretty down, right? They're headed toward apathy. The Big Ten saves them

because the Nebraska's Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State travel so well. That's what really saves them. They'll have good revenue because of their collective. And let's be honest, 20,000 Big Ten fans in the winter, they're going to LA to watch that game. To me, where you have no excuse, like, listen, you lose Oregon, you lose Ohio State. Like, maybe you're not as good. You cannot be losing to the middle of the pack.

Maryland? And when you look at the middle of the pack and the Big Ten, what is the difference between UCLA and Rutgers and USC? Like, that's what would really shake me if I was a USC fan. We're not just middle of the pack from a talent standpoint when I watch them play. it looks the same. It's always been my defense of the SEC. It's like you just watch the SEC looks different. Like, yeah, it's just more obviously Ohio State and Oregon have the equivalent, but the middle of the Big Ten and the middle of the SEC, even if their records are the same,

the talent discrepancy is obvious. And USC's, they kind of had an easy schedule this year. Did they play Ohio State? They did not play Ohio State, nor do they play Ohio State next year. So if you look at, I mean, Lincoln got a big break. He didn't get Oregon or Ohio State this year. He doesn't get Ohio State next year. So even, it's funny you ask, I looked at USC schedule yesterday and they have the home and a ways. It's a really, they get Michigan at home.

They get a couple of their, you know, they get a couple of their tough games at home. So they're getting, they don't have an LSU on the schedule. They play like Georgia Southern, Southwest Missouri State. They do an SEC out of conference schedule. So if you look at the schedule next year, John, it is, by Big Ten standards, it is a cakewalk. The other thing is, and obviously football at USC is way bigger than basketball. Yeah. But Musselman kind of has a history of winning and just kind of playing the part.

Yes. So he's just, God, he just can shake some hands, he can put on a smile, he can play the part. Like, you don't get to be just grumpy Belichick in college, right? You can do that in the NFL as long as you win. In college, you do have to shake hands, donors, NIL. And now they're going to be comparing him to Eric Musselman, who's been winning at all these places. And then you got Lincoln kind of honorary scowls, not smiling. I think you ask yourself, and this is what I said from the beginning.

Does he even want to be there? Did he just get an offer so gigantic that no human could turn down where it's like he was already so rich. He's looking at his bank count my life. Do I regret this? I think he got to say if he could do it over. again, is he the coach at USC right now? I think you'd have to say no, right? I still think he believes, based on the recruiting, the interior defensive line recruiting the last couple years. I think he believes next year's the season, but they don't have a quarterback.

They don't have an elite quarterback, so shit, who knows? John Middilkoff, former NFL scout, as always, crushed it, buddy. Thanks, Colin. Talk to you soon. The volume. Hey guys, it's us The Jonas Brothers, I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

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Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind

the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was calling you. You just understood.

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