The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Colts GM Chris Ballard on Wentz → Matty Ice, Irsay Influence, Draft Process

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

First, (3:00) Colin tries to figure out why Dallas isn’t at the top of NBA free agent lists, why college football desperately needs the glamor of The U for the good of the sport, and if it's Ryan Tannehill’s job to mentor Malik Willis. Then, Colts GM Chris Ballard joins Colin to discuss if he likes working for outspoken owner Jim Irsay (11:00), if this draft was as bad as advertised (15:00), if he’s changed his draft philosophy due to the NFL’s offensive explosion (21:00), and how the Matt Ryan trade materialized (25:00). He also explains the importance of sticking to his draft board (28:00), what it’s like to not have a first round pick (39:00), why the current transfer happy college environment is bad for the NFL game (41:00).  Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Colin so they know we and I sent you, the Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandul Sportsbook. Hi, everybody. Welcome in Wednesday morning podcast, one of the sharpest GM. in the NFL, Chris Ballard, who had a lot to deal with this offseason, stops by. Three thoughts before we get to Chris Ballard. Number one, obviously Luca is going to have to carry the Mavericks if they're going to beat the Phoenix Suns. Phoenix is the most consistent, predictable team in the league.

They shoot over 50 percent, the Kings of Mid-Range, it's 88 basketball. I love it, 1988 hoops. I love the construct. I love the chemistry. By the way, chemistry appears to matter in basketball. The Sun's guys don't take load management games off. It's obvious. They have great chemistry both ends of the floor.

But I think what's fascinating with the Mavericks, and I've talked about this with friends for years, if you were an NBA free agent, 82 game schedule, 20 different road trips, right? I mean, there's 41 games, but you go on a lot of road trips. Wouldn't Dallas be top of your list? I mean, if you are on the East Coast and have to fly to Portland or Sacramento, or if you're on the West Coast and have to fly to Boston or Miami, for the longevity of your career, fewer hours on a plane, why isn't Dallas as they seek a number two star for Luca?

Why isn't at the top of everybody's list? No state tax, three-hour flight max to the furthest points in the NBA from that destination. Mark Cuban is a pro basketball, pro player owner. I've never understood this. It's remarkable to me. I understand Miami being big and free agency. It's a winter league, perfect weather, Pat Riley, Eric Spolstra. But Dallas offers much the same without being geographically located in one of the furthest

points from the west coast. Is it because Dallas is viewed as an NFL town? or that Mark Cuban is such a well-known owner. He takes a little bit of the star power away from the players. But think about this. Their biggest stars ever have been two international players, three, if he count Steve Nash. What is it about domestic American players as free agents

that they don't choose Dallas more often? Middle of the country, decent mild winter weather, no state tax, very pro-player owner. I mean, if you're a single NBA player, even if you're married, good schools, I've never figured it out. It's one of the mysteries in the NBA. Why does Dallas not get more free agents? By the way, Luke is going to be the point guard. So you don't have to carry a scoring burden.

You'll get your points, but he'll carry the ball. He'll take care of a lot of the facilitating. There's something about the Mavericks that does not appeal for the last 20. years for free agents. They always get the second tier level of free agents. I can't figure it out. So, speaking of Miami, Mario Cristobal just bought nearly an $8 million mansion in Miami. And I'm listening to a lot of you guys out there. You know, you want everybody to believe you're such tough guys on Twitter. Some of you guys are fearmongers. You're terrified of change. You know, a lot of people are saying, oh my gosh, this NIL is going to kill the little guy.

College football and the SEC killed the little guy a long time ago. The last 15 years of college football, the SEC has won or played for the nattie, 14 to 15 years. Who are you kidding? You think college football runs through Iowa State? You think it runs through Boise State? It's been running through the SEC, Ohio State, and the big dogs forever. The second thing is what college football is lacking.

Because whereas the NFL ratings are going up, up, up, college football's attendance and ratings in the last three years, attendance has been down for seven years. Ratings have been down for three to four. Why? Fatigue on Alabama. Fatigue on the regionalization, the lack of glamour.

The sport has no glamour right now. And I know none of you folks like glamour. I know you're all just Midwestern guys. you're all farmers listening to me and you don't like any glamour. Oh, bullshit. Miami and USC are the two glamour programs in the sport. I mean, let's not kid ourselves. Miami and Los Angeles are places you go to party.

There are places you go to vacation. Nobody goes to Ann Arbor and Stillwater to vacation or Tuscaloosa. Okay. So don't try to sell me on that stuff. The program lacks juice. It lacks glamour. lacks big city. The NFL gives you everything. You get Green Bay. You get Indianapolis. You get New York. You get L.A. You get San Francisco. You get everything. You get Buffalo, the small town,

New Orleans, the party city, L.A., the glamour city, and the Packers. College football is just small town after small town and increasingly, overwhelmingly, about four programs. So Mario Cristobal is unbelievable for the sport. Listen, even in tennis, tennis ratings fluctuate based on star power. The NFL draft. Lowest ratings in a decade. Why? No quarterbacks. So the idea that we don't like glamour with our football is absolutely utter nonsense. Chiefs games, Packers games, they get bigger ratings. College football needs the Trojans and needs the canes. Badly, attendance and ratings have been slipping for years. So Ryan Tannahill was asked about new Titans quarterback, third-round draft pick, Malik Willis.

And he gave one of my favorite answers. He said, it's not my job to develop him. I'll be a good teammate. If he learns things from me, that's great. Can I defend Ryan Tannehill here? teams don't want players getting into their personnel department. So teams shouldn't ask players to develop said player. I mean, if teams are like stay away from our personnel choices, okay, then you stay away

from me developing my replacement. That's not Ryan Tannihil's job. If you're an employee, companies are constantly looking for a cheaper, version of you in every field. I don't care if it's movies or landscaping. If somebody can put in the hours, get paid less, and do as good or better a job, you'll be replaced. Because most of us don't have contracts. I do. Most people don't. So Ryan Tanale's saying, hey, I'm not going to find my heir apparent. I'm not going to develop my heir apparent. If he wants to watch me and he wants to glean something from me, that's awesome. I'm not going to bark at him in the quarterback.

room, but I'm not going to share snaps with him. I will defend any pro athlete who gives that answer. You draft and develop, I'll stay out of it, but I am going to try to win my job and cut the throat of anybody who's out for my gig. There's 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Average salary right now is about $25 million. Yeah, I'm not going to find my replacement. Sorry. All right, Chris Ballard. He'd been a GM now, what, five years, former director of player ops personnel, Bears director of pro scouting, a guy I implicitly trust, a lot smarter on me than me on this stuff. And I was thinking about this morning when I was, I knew I was going to interview you.

I thought, okay, I got to ask him, you're in a very unique position. You have an owner who gets the sport, like truly understand it. Jim's in a class of about two owners. I mean, Jerry Jones played it. But Jim really, he really knows the sport. And he's brutally outspoken. I mean, I brought him on my show nine months ago. He'll talk about anything.

And he's going on, he goes on McAfee's show the other day. I like Pat a lot. And he said, yeah, that Wend's thing was a damn mistake. And I'm like, well, it was 27 TD, seven picks, 64, 63% completion percentage, 3,600 yards. It's one of the great mistakes in league history because it was pretty good. But when you have an owner that knows the sport will give strong opinions, is that good for you? How do you view that?

Because that's rare, the knowledge and the willingness to go and say stuff that other owners won't. It's great for me. I mean, I have a lot of respect for Mr. Arsay just because he's done the job. Like, he's done it at every level from equipment. room, you know, folding socks and all the way up to the GM level. So, and he's seen a lot of football and over the years. And I have great respect for when we talk about football, it's one of the great things about being here.

I mean, I'm there for getting before I took the job, you know, talking to people had been here before, you know, well-respected people. And they said, Chris, you will not work for a better owner in terms of. of wanting to win and knowing how to do, knowing the game of football and knowing how to do it the right way. And look, we both are very strong-willed. And that can lead to some very animated discussions between both of us. And that's a good thing. That's one of the things I really love about him is I don't have to, like I don't, I don't have to sugarcoat anything. Like, when we have a game on Sunday, he knows what he's looking at. He that, you know, I can't

will BS him and, well, this is, no, he's looking at the same thing I'm looking at. So the, and I think the only way is an organization that you can really make progress. And this league's hard. I mean, it is really hard. And it is hard to win. But the only way you can really make progress is if you are internally focused on yourself and really having hard evaluations that need to happen. and not be worried about people's feelings along the way. I mean, look, we screw things up. It happens. And, you know, the willingness of him to be able to listen, see it, and admit, like, hey, man, we just, we got it wrong.

Let's move forward. That's a comforting thing for me as a GM. And I'm naturally, that's a little of my nature anyways when I, and Lord knows I've had my share of screw ups. But knowing you have an owner that understands that that happens is a, it's very securing for me. I enjoy it. You know, I was talking, I called Tom Telesco after the draft to congratulate him. And I said, you know, it can't be that bad of a draft when you can get Isaiah Spiller in the fourth round. And I watched the big back.

And I'm like, you know, I watched him at A&N. a couple of years, big back, big production in the best college football conference. And then I saw a safety, he's got a hyphenated name, Oklahoma, went in the fifth round. And he's small, but he's really active, really smooth. And I look at this draft and I'm like, you know, that UCLA tight end, Dulcich goes in the third. And I'm like, Jesus, he's a dynamic tight end. So as I looked at this draft, I thought, you know, next year, we could have five, first round quarterback so it will be viewed as a dynamic draft. But when you, if you take the

quarterback position out in the last two or three drafts, was this draft a notch below or just didn't have the headliners? You know, I think there's players in every draft, I do. Now, do how many actually become real superstars in the league? I can't tell you that. I mean, I think the way we kind of looked at it, there was six or six. seven real, you know, we thought really had a chance to be dynamic, but it doesn't mean you won't hit somewhere else in the draft and find those dynamic players. We thought there was a lot of really good depth in this draft, really hitting about midway through the second into the third, fourth, and fifth rounds. We thought that was the real meat of the draft.

And I think you're going to find that there's going to be some really good players come out of this draft from those rounds. The biggest horse race, race of the year is quickly approaching, and you can bet the derby risk-free up to $200 with TVG. That's right, new TVG players can get started with a risk-free bet up to $2,000 in your first single horse win wager. That means you get up to $200 back if your horse doesn't win. The TVG app gives you all the tools you need to bet the derby. You get access to free picks, analysis, wagering advice from industry experts. I'm picking Messier to win it.

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Yeah, the, you know, it's an interesting offseason for you guys because you had a couple of clear things you wanted to get. Obviously, wide receivers have grown in importance in this league. When Tyreek Hill went to the Dolphins and I saw five draft picks, my jaw dropped. I'm like, whoa, forget a housing bubble. We're in a wide receiver bubble. Like, come on, we're being crazy here. And then I take a step back driving home that day from the show and think, well, the rule changes. I mean, good God, the Bengals had a bad old line, pretty average linebackers.

And they got to a Super Bowl because they were really dynamic on the perimeter. Do you think it's possible? You know, we've had tech bubbles, stock market bubbles, housing bubbles. Are we in perhaps a little bit of a wide receiver bubble overvaluing how big it is? I mean, you always want playmakers. I mean, you always want as many playmakers as you can have. I always go back to like the fundamentals that I've always been taught in this game. And I think you can see teams around the league going back.

You know, like that's the one misnomer of Coach Rita, Andy, that he always starts up front. Like, that's his, you know, everybody sees. the offense and he throws the ball a bunch, but it always starts up front with him on the O-line D-Lod. And then if you get dynamic quarterback played, you know, from a quarterback that can get the ball in the hands of some real weapons, then you've got a chance to do something really special. And I think the quarterback determines so much of that, Colin, like the success. Like I'm not saying the wide-outist change teams won't have success. It'll be interesting to see. But when you have a great quarterback and who can get the ball in their hands, that makes a big difference too.

And I give, like the one thing I'll say about the Bengals, and I give their organization a lot of credit because they took a lot of crap a year ago when I didn't think it was necessary. Like they just, hey, this was the best player for us when they took, you know, the wide out at LSU. And they were right. And they knew they had a special quarterback who was extremely smart and who could get the ball in their hands, and that's what they did. You've had some real success drafting offensive linemen.

I thought it was a real good tackle draft. I love Tyler Linderbaum. I'd said months before the draft, I thought he would end up in the 20s and be, end up being a Pro Bowl player potentially several times in his career. It's interesting. We look at the SEC as being sort of, you know, it's an annual gold rush for talent. but this year I felt for some reason I felt the big 10 had a lot of good players and I and I thought to myself well about four years ago five years ago Harbaugh gets into the conference the recruiting gets better I did it felt like the big 10 had a better than average year to me am I seeing things what what did you make of it no there was I mean look Ohio State Michigan their talented programs I mean when you just I was always always always going to have players.

Yes. I mean, now look, I'm a homer because I'm a Wisconsin grad, and I got close ties to the program, and I love them. But then if you just look position by position in the league, you've got, you know, you got Watt. It's probably one of the best rushers in the league. You got Russell Wilson, who's one of the better quarterbacks in the league. You got Johnson Taylor, who's one of the better running backs in the league.

You got Ramcheck, who's one of the better tackles in the league. Like, though, I've always thought it's a misnomer when people act like there's no talent that comes out of the big 10. Right. It's just that the SEC is so talented. Like there's so many good players that come out of there. You almost brush over all these other good players that are coming out of these other conferences just because they're so talented. So let's go back to acquiring Matt Ryan and I think he's a really good fit.

So take me to the conversation, you and Jim Mersey. So you're moving off Wentz. Are you driving to work? Are you driving home? Like was it a long process? Take into the first conversation you had with Jim. Well, I mean, I give Ms. Sersay a lot of credit. I mean, I'm pretty patient by nature.

I mean, I don't really care what's going on outside of our walls and the panic that happened. So, you know, after we made the trade, you know, Mr. Sersay, Frank and I had talked. And he said, look, just be patient. Something good is going to happen. Just be patient. Don't panic. and just sign a player to sign a player just to fill the need to make everybody happy in the moment. And, you know, when the Deshaun Watson stuff started happening, we just, we have been tracking

it and looking at the teams who he could go to and where, you know, the quarterbacks could be available. And, you know, we got a, we got a call one day from Atlanta and said, hey, look, you know, we're in this. And would you be interested in, and Matt Ryan? Because he's going to have, he's one of the places that he said he has interest in going is Indianapolis. And, you know, at that point, we just, we kind of worked through it with Atlanta. And when they didn't get Deshaun, we stayed in contact. I'll never get the night before I told him the Thursday. Say, hey, look, this is where we at. And he just said, Chris, get it done. And I said, good, because I feel the same way. Now, you were blocked, weren't you by the Texans for Deshaun? That was a story.

Oh, that was a story. There's lots of stories, Colin. Half of them are true, half of them or not. So I guess you can block people for a request, right? You can. You have a right to block people? I mean, people call to trade for players all the time and I tell them no. So how many calls a day do you get from an executive in the league that's not a Colts employee? There's some guys.

I mean, I wouldn't say every day. But I talk to, I mean, there's certain GMs around the league that I have tremendous respect for. that there's a trust level there that I do talk to and some of the same ones you know. Yeah. That I just have great respect and can bounce things off of and know that it won't be on, you know, it won't be in the news the next day. And we're pretty active, you know, even though people don't think we are, we're pretty active around the league.

And our pro scouts do a tremendous job talking and making sure their contacts around the league are strong and that we know what's going on. Yeah. Do you ever, like some of this stuff, when I was in the Chargers War Room a couple years ago, I was fascinated by how Telesco ran it. And, I mean, just having his director of scouting, people next to him, working the phones. And to me, it was like, this is such a great tight wire job. When you go into draft day, do you do, they do like dress. rehearsals.

Like, do you say to your staff, all right, we're doing a dress rehearsal and make it as hard as you can on me in multiple trades? Like, because the way he told me the story is like, listen, we, we kind of, we're going to predict some wild turns on this stuff. Do you go through the same process? I know, but we, so we, we do it a little different to some people that we meet. So we watch, like Colin, we watch everybody. like from free agent all the way up to the best picks we watch them all and we it's a three month

process and so as we're going through it and we spend a lot of time stacking it the way we see it and then on draft day like always tell our guys like hey are you are we sure in the second round here we because if because as this thing pills off if that's the last name that's who we're taking like i'm not we're not doing all this work for the last year and then all of a sudden on draft day flipping and going I don't feel good about this guy now no we and so how we end up I think we ended up probably more I think we had 181 guys on the board this year which was a lot for us usually usually will be in the 160 range and I think at the end of the draft there was 15 names left so I thought we identified who needed to be up there that was fits for us and the way we saw it and then on draft day like Like we don't, because we spend so much time stacking it, it peels off. Colin, it's usually pretty easy and simple. Like there might be, sometimes there might be one name left.

This year there happened to be three or four at 42. They were like, okay, that's when we made the trade back to 53. We said, right. We still think we can get, you know, these guys at 53. So we let our board determine. And I think we're all pretty good. we're all pretty quick thinkers on our feet. Like I got a really great group from our,

from Ed Dodds, my assistant GM, the Kevin, you know, who director of player personnel to Morocco to our analytics guys and they're all, they all communicate to me of what's going on, what's happening in the moment. We get a lot of,

because people know we'll trade. They know we'll move down. So we get a lot of calls during the draft because they know we're willing to move. And all of our. guys are really good at it. So let's say you're in the third round, you take Jelani Woods, the tight end, and you're moving down the board, and tight end was a need. You wanted another tight end, but let's say you get to pick 73. And he's not your 73rd best player, but he's darn close.

Do you sit here and think, okay, I got two guys ahead of him, but I, you know, I don't need a quarterback and I don't need this. And then, like, how far will you go if it's like, listen, we have him highly ranked and he's darn close at this draft spot. Do you go down three spots, five, eight, like explain that process? I think it depends on, you know, like our analytics guys do, I mean, these guys are good now, Colin. They freaking nail it every year for us. And they could do a good job of projecting where the range these guys are going to go. And if they fit for us from a talent standpoint where we've got them lined up, like we just line them up, like I don't ever worry about where the media and the experts have them lined up.

We line them up as we see them. And then we figure out, okay, let's say we got a guy in this third round. And our analytics guys help, okay, you might be able to get this guy 20 picks later, Chris. So then we, okay, is it worth the risk? You know, what are we gaining by moving up? So then when we move back, let's say we trade back in the third 10 picks and we pick up an extra five. But what's the cluster of players look like in five that we think?

think we're going to get and we have ranked in that area. It was, so I'll give our staff a lot of questions. So like we really liked cross from Maryland who we took. And we ended up moving up and we're giving up a fifth and a third next year to get cross. Colin, that happened. There was a minute left on the clock with Denver. And I just kept telling them, just keep calling.

Somebody will do it. And then finally there's a minute on the clock. And Kevin yelled over, hey, I got Denver. They'll do the deal. And I mean, so then you got to call the league. Both teams got to call the league within a minute and get the kid on the phone to make sure he's around. That was probably one of the funnest moments of the weekend for us because we didn't expect it. We didn't think we were going to get him.

We'd already taken, you know, three really good players that we liked. And then the get cross at the end, that was kind of the cherry on top for us. You had a coach who felt like he disappointed you after Jacksonville. You had an owner that's pissed. You had a quarterback that has taken a lot of hits. You're right in the middle of it. Was there about a 10-day stretch where it sucked to be cross-ballered? I mean, look, I'm harder.

And then you got a GM who's felt like I've let an owner and a head coach and a team and a city down for the way that thing ended. Like, I don't ever look, I'm grateful to do what I do, Colin. I'll never one day take, even the bad, you know, even the hard parts of the job, I'll always be great. I mean, look, I could have to go get a real job. That would shock. I mean, I couldn't imagine going to get a real job. My whole life I've been able to work in football, and I am just really blessed to do that. Now, did I go into a little bit of a dark place?

Yes. But that dark place wasn't, it was more of the disappointment in myself that we didn't get it. done and then sit and the one thing that my wife my wife's always she said Chris you're so you're you're your you're your your happiest in chaos you know you I mean and Lord knows I've created enough of it and I love like one of the things that I really love about this job is the problem solving aspect of and figuring out okay how how we're going to do this like how is this going to come together. And if you've got enough really good people around you that are really smart, like I don't ever take that for granted. Smart people figure problems and they're good

teammates. We'll figure it out together. And if our process is really good, this thing will work out. And we think it did. Now we've got to go prove it. Like all this stuff, yeah, I mean, like all the offseason and like people, people forget about all this once the season starts. I know you're shocked, but this week's gold medal performance goes to the New York Jets. I don't really do draft grades much, but I did love the Jets draft. Their first three picks were all consensus top ten prospects and ranked the best at their positions. Of their seven picks, they came away with five potential immediate starters. The jury's still out on quarterback Zach Wilson and head coach Robert Sala,

but they got a keeper in GM Joe Douglas. That was one of the best drafts I think I've ever seen. This week's gold medal performance sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. The uncertainty in the world is leading to market volatility. My friends at Legacy Precious Metals are here to work you through why gold is the way forward through these unsteady times. Legacy Precious Metals can advise you how to roll your existing retirement account into a gold IRA and provide steps to take should you want to hold physical medals in your home.

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Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. in probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

You know, there's a trend now, and I don't know if it was started by the Rams, but the Rams and less Sneed, their takeaway, you know, I think is kind of, listen, if I can make a trade and get Jalen Ramsey and Matt Stafford, I'll trade that for a first round pick every day. you did that when you go to a draft and don't have a first round pick though are you thinking man man i like john lynch didn't have one until like pick 60 and i'm thinking of myself man i'd struggle to be in the draft as a gm and i got i got nothing and it like is it anxiety driven for you or do you like you just know hey we got it this going to be a second through a fifth we're going to get our players no i don't ever well first thing is when you talk about the rams in that light Like they've done, like what less than his group have done has been tremendous. Like they get, there's a lot of, there's a lot of talk and it deservedly so about all the

picks they've traded. But what people don't talk about enough is the comp picks, they, they do an unbelievable job working in the comp system. They get a lot of third, fourth, fifth, six round picks. And then they're hitting on them. They've got a great, they got a great vision with their coaching staff of how these players are going to fit because they have to. just because of the financial restrictions they have from having so many great players.

And then when you don't have a first round pick, like we didn't have one in 20 when we took Pittman, Taylor, and Blackman. There's good players at every level. It's just making sure you identify them and then being smart enough to take them. I mean, look, I've done some, there's some players I've passed up on that I look back and I go, you are an idiot. Like, what were you thinking? I mean, you, I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I just, and then, you know, then you get it right. You take a tailor and a pitman. You're like, okay, I got that one right. But then you look back and you, because we post mortem a lot of, we post mortem everything. And that's how you grow and that's how you learn when you reevaluate past drafts of who was on the board. And should you have taken this guy over this guy? But like not having the first, it, nah, it doesn't. Whatever.

I mean, I'll probably trade out anyways. Here, I'll throw this at you. the duality of football. So the transfer portal and NIL. So you're going to get different players. There'll be entitlement. There'll be one of the things I hear about coaches. Saban says this.

Like, listen, if you're going to just transfer every time you've got a problem, you're not really, you're not, you don't have that, that thin, that thick skin and that kind of metal that this sport requires. Quarterbacks especially, Chris, and I've noticed this for a decade. You know, if a kid goes to a program and they bring in another kid, hell, he'll transfer six months into the program. Like, I'm not getting snaps. I'm out. That's pretty precious. Do you sense a little bit of that like, hey, dad's hovering over the program.

I don't get a start. I worry that you're going to lose sort of that innate 80s, 90s sort of like, because the media is harder. Social media is more brutal. coaches are tough, and yet you kind of grooved into a starting job in college and not challenged much. Do you worry all about that? Absolutely, I do. And this will, I mean, all right. So look, there's always some extenuating circumstances why does transfer.

But the one thing that bothers me is we're making it. It's so easy to transfer now. Like we're teaching kids it's okay to quit when it gets a little hard. When there's a little competition there, it's, you know what, I'm out. I don't want to stay and compete. And that's the wrong, like football, like what it gives us, Colin, like what this game gives kids playing it. It teaches all the right things. And even, and I tell our guys here, you know, that, you know, when football's over,

Like, you've got a skill set that the rest of the other people don't have. I think you've learned how to work. You've learned how to persevere. You've learned to work in a team. You've learned to solve problems. Like all these cool things you've learned, you're going to be able to apply in the real world, whatever your passion is. But now we're saying, okay, it's okay. You know what?

I'm not the starter. So instead of just grinding it out, I'm going to transfer. Could you imagine if Tom Brady were to transfer from Michigan? I mean, like, he had every reason to. He was a highly recruited quarterback. He had to grind. Like I would tell you, and I don't, I mean, I don't know Tom well enough to ask it, but if you ask Tom Brady, what helped make him who he is today,

I think grinding through what he had to grind through at Michigan was part of it. People don't want the hardness of the journey. They want the success in it to be handed. and it is the absolute wrong message that we're sending today. It's bothersome. It's really bothersome. Yeah, psychologists will tell you that, you know, kids will say today, I want to be happy. Well, the action comes before the feeling.

So you get happy accomplishing stuff. It doesn't work the other way around. And like, to me, I like fulfillment. I get it finishing a project. like the journey is what I like, right? It's no different, Colin, than like everybody wants to be a, I mean, I don't know. I didn't exactly grow up wanting to be a gym and just, I got lucky and fortunate. But like, okay, I'll have people ask me, well, you know, I want to be a gym one day, you know,

but I want to do it on this time frame? And but do they want to be a gym and go work in Kingsville, Texas for $12,000 a year for seven years? Do they want to go work for the Chicago Bears and be an area scout for 11 years? You know, do they want to grind up? Like, they see the top level, but they don't understand all the things that came in between to get there. And there's a lot of work and sacrifice. Like, people want the ultimate result without the work and without the sacrifice and without

the struggle and without the failure. Like, that's what I worry about. I worry about that we're not teaching that anymore. All right. Do you get a summer vacation? We're going to go take your family for a week. more fun. Well, I got five kids. So I got one at Baylor, and she'll be home for this summer, which will be great. The other four, two are playing baseball, tour, soccer. We'll go to Wisconsin.

We go to northern Wisconsin. Oh, it's great. Yes. Great. We go for. Called the Dells? No, we go even northern up to, it's called Boulder Junction. It's up in North Wisconsin, and we just love it. We go every year for about eight days, and it's great. Oh, my wife is from Chicago. And so she's told me about Wisconsin summers for years, how beautiful it is. Absolutely. And you get that perfect crisp nights, no humidity, 78, 82 degrees. God, that's good living.

Oh, it's incredible. Like, I have no desire to go back to the heat. I grew up in it. I'm okay with the cold. I'm one of the few psychos who like it. It's great seeing you, man. Thanks so much for doing this. All right, Colin.

Thank you. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also, chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the Volume podcast. Network. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Cliford Show on the IHeart Radio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed Human.