The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - CP3/Poole Trade Reaction, Wembanyama #1 + 5 Draft Player Types

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

First Colin gives his instant reaction to the news of the Warriors trading Jordan Poole to the Wizards in exchange for Chris Paul, and what it could ultimately mean for Klay Thompson. He also gives his thoughts on ‘can’t miss’ #1 overall pick Victor Wembanyama. Then, he joins  Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf and the guys from Nerd Sesh to discuss if Wembanyama can live up to the ‘generational talent’ hype, if the international player takeover of the NBA is good for the game, Timpf’s 5 draft player types,and if the Blazers will deal Dame Lillard after drafting Scoot Henderson.  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Chris Paul Wizards to Golden State. My reaction. The draft picks are irrelevant. For Golden State, everything is on Steph Curry's timeline. That's also why they got rid of Jordan Poole. I was told after the Draymond Green punched to Jordan Poole that it was a culmination of many things. Jordan Poole trash talking clay, trash talking Steph Curry, trash talking Draymond Green. And inevitably, that chemistry and that fissure was never healed.

There's video of the Warriors during the playoffs. Jordan Poole walking past and pushing Draymond Green. I'm not in any way saying he doesn't have a right to be bitter. And that relationship was never going to be close. But the truth is, it didn't get progressively better. And go ahead and blame Draban. Draymond's more important to the team. You know, we see it all the time in sports.

Two guys battle on a team. You get rid of the less talented or less crucial player. Draymond Green opted out because he can and the warriors are going to pay him more to come back. He is their best defender. He is often their best rebounder, best screener, one of their best passers, catalyst, heart and soul of the team. Curry is the shooter and score. Heart and soul of it remains Draymond.

They're not the same team when he's off the floor. Jordan Poole comes off the bench and can add offense. But this is on Steph's timeline and Poole is seen as just too immature now and going forward. Now, you say, well, they didn't get much for him. So let's talk about what you get for Jordan Poole. What's his market? What the Warriors are telling you is when Steph Curry misses games, or when Steph Curry is on the bench,

or when Steph Curry takes a rest during the playoffs, they don't trust Jordan Poole, who did not have a very big trade market. It wasn't like a lot of people were calling the Warriors asking about Jordan Poole, an expensive, albeit talented guard with immaturity issues. You look around the league right now, Zion Williamson's immaturity, Jha Morant's immaturity, Jordan Poole is a less talented version of those two. He didn't have much of a market. So what the Warriors were seeking is when Steph is out, missing, taking a breather, big

playoff moment, Chris Paul's the grown-up who can fill in and lead the offense. I also believe it tells you something else because everything goes through Steph Curry. They gave him a heads up on this trade. He was fine with it. Does it tell you that Chris Paul believes he is going to have opportunities to start and play alongside Steph Curry? Because of Curry's capacity to shoot and ability and because, because, you know, he is going to have opportunities to start and because he's known as one of the great

movers without the basketball. Steph Curry can slide over to the number two. Now it would be a small back court. Chris Paul the point, Curry off ball. But Steph Curry is great off ball. And what this would allow move off

Clay Thompson. Just a thought. Is this the first of other moves? Because yes, Chris Paul, Clay Thompson Steph Curry, but then there's Gary Payton and Moses Moody. Again, five guards that need time.

You know, you start looking at Golden State, and my takeaway is, the signal I get is they're resigning, Draymond Green, they're not relinquishing Looney or Wiggins. Steph Curry is the face of the franchise. Is this a preemptive move to get Curry to play some two guard

and move off Clayton? Thompson feels like it to me. The idea that Chris Paul is, he's just simply too old. Again, you're not asking him to play big games or big minutes. What you're crossing your fingers on is availability in important minutes, vital minutes late in the season. That's what you're making this move for. All right.

I think Chris Paul comes into this situation. eager, willing to restructure his deal, willing to come off the bench, willing to be the lead and let Steph play off the ball. I think a lot of this works because the Warriors called Chris Paul. He's a high Q player and said, listen, we'd like to bring into a winning culture. We're going to ask for some sacrifices. And I think Chris Paul at this stage in his career looked at the Clippers really all. Old, Kauai and Paul George never available. Lakers, really old.

Anthony Davis, not often available. And then he looked at the Warriors and thought, Steph, Draymond, Wiggins, Looney. These guys want a title a year ago. So I think discussions were had between the Warriors and Chris Paul. Chris Paul is agent. Chris Paul, Steve Kerr, Mike Dunleavy, Jr. I think Chris is going to Golden State with the idea of being part of a championship team. He knows where he's at.

at this point in his career. And it is interesting. Porzingus to the Celtics is viewed as a big gain by Boston. Yet Boston doesn't have a title. Porzingus gets hurt a lot. They still don't have a facilitator at point guard. And Jalen Brown and Tatum are still sort of clunky at the end of possessions end of games. Yet that's perceived as a win. The often injured Porzingis. Who is at time struggle to play with others. Marcus Smart to the Grizzlies, that is a win. They let go of Tyos Jones, a significantly more dynamic offensive player for old Marcus Smart. That's viewed as a win. Tyos Jones to the Wizards. That scene is a bit of a steel. He is a really, really talented young player. Why is there so much cynicism with winning point guard Chris Paul going to a chance

championship culture, with Wiggins, Draymon, Steph, Steve Kerr. I think a lot of it is kind of a belief that this great dynasty has ended, and now it's just going off a cliff. But weren't these same people excited for Chris Paul to the Lakers and Chris Paul to the Clippers? Kauai and Paul George are never available. LeBron's giving you now 58 games a year in a year. Anthony Davis has given you 60.

Why are people excited in Los Angeles for Chris Paul to the Lakers that would take the ball out of the hands of Austin Reeves, who's not a natural two guard, and LeBron, who just came off his shooting year and doesn't play off the ball well? But they don't think it works in Golden State? Folks, basically, Chris Paul is a high IQ veteran player that will spell Steph Curry, high IQ veteran player and allow Steph to occasionally playoff ball. I don't see the miss here. You can't be excited about Chris Paul to the Clippers and the Lakers and then think it's a fatal

mistake, Chris Paul or the Warriors. He's going to have better, more reliable teammates with the Warriors, better culture with the Warriors, better teammates, Steph Curry, with the Warriors. I think it works. All right. Second thought, Victor Wembeñama, going number one, San Antonio Spurs from France. Over the course of my life, I have seen basketball pivot, professional basketball pivot several times. So when I grew up, it was Wilk Chamberlain, you know, the big centers, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond.

You really had to have a dominant big to be a championship contender. It all started with Bill Russell back in the 60s. And then the emergence of skill and the dynamic athlete, the Michael Jordans, the Kobe Bryant's, that wing players were now more marketable, more explosive, more talented, and they could lead you to championships. And then, of course, we have seen the emergence of small ball where centers back to the basket centers have been completely marginalized, small ball warriors. play small, play fast, hit threes. I do think the league is pivoting again, and a lot of it is the European influence of seven foot plus athletes from Europe

who are highly skilled. Victor Wembenyama, 7-3, dribble, got the bag, shoot threes, Yokic, point center, Yonis, dominant player, both ends of the floor. And I think it's going to change. the league that that I feel over the next four to five years, maybe longer, that Janus and Yokic will go back and forth like Bird and Magic did as best player, most influential

player in the NBA. Now, Victor Wembenyama in about three to four years may surpass both, may. But I like the emergence of gifted, big European centers. And there's two reasons. One, I think the constant barrage of three-point shots can be boring. It's not terribly layered. I miss big men. I grew up, you know, we all love what we love at nine years old in sports, teams, players, cultures. I miss in baseball, you know, home runs and strikeouts don't do a thing for me. I miss the extra base.

I miss stolen bases. That's what I grew up with in baseball. That's why I'll always have a soft spot to some degree on running the football in the NFL. Like, I think it matters. In the NBA, I like centers. I like bigs. I like physicality down low. So that's the first part of it.

The second thing is, I think you get a maturity with a European kid, often over an American kid. American kids feel like it's their league. The AAU circuit, I don't think, helps team basketball. I'm not sure it actually helps the individual. Steve Kerr said it fundamentally hurts the growth of a basketball player. the American kid grows up with a little bit more entitlement in the NBA. European players come in more mature.

They play against older players. They come out of the academy system. Like all of us, they feel like visitors to America. There's a sense of loyalty, not being concerned with their brand. It's about winning basketball, being loyal to Milwaukee, being loyal to San Antonio, being loyal to a Denver or a Dallas. And I think that's good for the league. I don't think mobility is a bad thing.

I have defended LeBron James and Kevin Durant for years. But I think ideally, you get players who go to a team and stay in that city for 15 years. Brady, New England. Mahomes, Kansas City. I mean, if you look at the NFL, Farr and Aaron Rogers primarily stayed in Green Bay. It's okay if you leave at the end of your career. But I think that's one of the secret sauces of the NFL is that great historic players stay in a city for 15 years. I think it's better serve for the NBA to stay stars staying in their

cities. I mean, Shaq's career was always amazing to me. I know he left and won a title in Miami, but I look at Kobe's career as greater than Shaq's career and many historians don't because my memories of Kobe are so positive through the Lakers, winning with Gasol, winning with Shaq. He's a Laker. Shack's career at the end was, the hodgepodge of weird fits and weird jerseys. It doesn't, it doesn't to me feel as formidable, as pure as Kobe Bryant's career, though many people see Shaq as a greater all-time player. And so I think Janus and Yokic and Wenbenyama and Luca,

I think they're going to be with their teams for a majority of their career. And I think it's good for the league. I can think two things. I think LeBron's mobility was good for LeBron. But if you take LeBron out of it, a guy who's jumped from team to team to team and one and one and one, look at Kevin Durant. Should have never left Golden State. He made one jump, perhaps Phoenix 2, too many.

So we have this perception that the league is too mobile. It's really not. And mobility builds great dynasties. Even the heathles with three Hall of Famers, D-Wade LeBron Bosch, two titles, four years. Not much of a dynasty. So I like the emergence of highly skilled, more loyal European players. I like the layering of it. I miss centers dominating the game.

I think they're players that come into this league with a single mission to win games and get better. And I like it. That doesn't mean I can't root for Scoot Henderson or Zion Williamson, John Williamson, John Morant, to turn it around. It's not that I don't enjoy watching those players. But the European influence, I think is good for the sport. It is for my eyes. I loved watching Yokic. That was, I know it's a lot of garbage points in the eyes of younger NBA fans.

I thought it was great basketball. Movement, elevation, shooting, passing, everything I love about hoops. Okay, I'm going to now let you hear about 15 minutes of. of what we did live last night. Jason Timph hoops tonight, myself, and the two young guys, Carson and Logan for NerdSesh, went live during the NBA draft. The crew edited about 15 minutes of it, our thoughts.

Listen, the draft only gives you about three to four highly impactful players. I still love the draft. I love the construct and the architecture of pro sports. Love the draft. Here it is. Do you have some home projects you need to get done? Whether you own the house or you rent it in your apartment, your condo, or your townhome.

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Colin, it is great to have you. How are you doing today? Well, I just watched a three-minute highlight package that I had not seen before of new Victor Wimbunyama highlights. It's like a video game. His ability. I said today that we got Porzingis in the league eight years ago. You know, the European 7-3 can slash can head a jumper. And he doesn't have nearly the skill, Victor Webonyama.

He has a cruder offensive game. But there are some elements here that we're seeing from European basketball players. They play against grown men, they come in pretty humble and mature. They've got making sheet jumpers. You know, Yokic, Janus, Christops, Wembenyama. You know, when I watch him, one of the things that really jumps out to me is just how fluid it is. It's just a very easy, it's not a soft game, but it's, it's not a soft game. but it's pretty.

It's a really pretty game. He'll make spin moves and have a little shoulder dip to kind of drive his position. But he's just so fluid. The game is, you know, the game, the great players make it look easy. Everything, to me, the ball's on such a stream the way he handles it. He's just a very fluid, natural basketball player, very comfortable in the perimeter, driving, transition. You know, and sometimes you just need guns gifts.

I mean, like I watched a couple of blocks on the perimeter here on this highlight package. It's just, you know, he can, when you can be burned and block the shot, it's one thing to be burned and recover. When you could be burned and block a shot, be fooled. You know, some of that late is just, he's just a remarkable player. I said the other day, there's only 10 players since magic. I believe we're not only consensus number ones.

and had no red flags. Wembe, Anthony Davis, LeBron Duncan Robinson, the key, magic. I'm missing a couple, Tim Duncan, I think, where, you know, like Wembe is thin. That's not a red flag. That's a developmental issue. Anthony Davis was thin in the waist. People thought, you know, but if you watch him now, he's obviously the back, the shoulders. I don't really consider that a red flag.

Ben Simmons was a consensus one, but was aloof. didn't make the tournament, couldn't shoot. It's hard to find people that said he was communicative or a leader. John Wall was a consensus won. A lot of turnovers out of control, could not shoot. Those are great players. But I mean, a no red flag number one, since Magic, there's, I think, Wembe's the 10th. It's a remarkable rarity in this league for all the talent. And I just, those three minutes of video I had not seen. It's, it's just. different. It's like LeBron's high school stuff. You're right.

I hope that's a grown man playing a sophomore junior high school. Like that doesn't look like other players. No, he doesn't. I mean, he really is one of one within the scope of NBA history. The combination of you mentioned fluidity and offensive skill and shooting ability and the defensive potential at 7-4 with an 8-foot wing span. Like there's possessions where he's targeted out of pick and roll and he is just so incredibly massive that you can't offer any resistance. I think it's interesting that you came in talking about the sort of international flavor to his game and the comparisons to Porzingis and whatnot, because this is in some ways an interesting culmination of like the global takeover of the NBA that we've seen where the last five MVP awards have all gone now to international players between Embed, Yolkich and Janus, and now we have this totally generational prospect who is officially being selected by the Spurs.

as we speak. What do you think that does for the health of basketball overall, Colin, just this incredible blooming international group of players? Well, Jason and I talked about this. I think it's good for the league. I think I'm old school, so I grew up with Bob Lanier and Kareem. I grew up with Biggs, and I missed the layering. I miss centers. I grew up with Walton. I covered Arbina Subonis. So I like the layering. I, I, I like the layering. I, I grew up with Biggs. I, I'm okay with small ball. I don't want to see the whole league go small. I don't want to see every center marginalized.

I think, first of all, these are European players because they play against older players and the European culture where you travel within countries on the train system. They speak multiple languages. They're, I think, more mature than our players. They come in hungry, humble, and loyal. I think they're likable players. They're not always the flashiest or the most dynamic. But I think they're mature.

They're great players. They're good citizens. They have multiple skill sets. They're very layered. And I've always thought guys old school. I like size. I like size in the league. There's nothing against Morant and Rose and Law.

I understand it. They're dynamic. There's room for that too. But man, there is watching Yokic. I think Yolkich and Yonis are going to go back and forth over the next six years, being the best bird magic, best player in the league for about six years. years, maybe five, and then I think

Victor's got taken over. Yeah, and what we're seeing is the evolution of the big man to be incredibly skilled. And that's what I think the international pool helps us with. It feels like every year we see prospects who are just inconceivably skilled all around at 6-9 and up. And we've got another one of those guys in this class, Jason, with Brandon Miller, who has been long sort of seen as the favorite for the number two

pick to Charlotte. Now Scoot Henderson has started to really reemerge in those conversations. What do you think goes down with this number two pick? Well, I have no idea what Charlotte's going to do. I know what I would do. I would take Brandon Miller. And a lot of it just has to do with my view on the archetypes of players. I think there are five core archetypes of players in the NBA. There are playmaking forwards, scoring forwards, hyperathletic guards, your star centers, and then your unicorns, which are guys like, like Janus and Steph Curry, which don't really fit into any of those molds. And the hyperathletic guard is, in my opinion, the least successful archetype of star that we've seen in the impact between Russell Westbrook, Derek Rose, John Wall.

Like that specific archetype of player, they almost always are bad defenders because they're relied on in large doses to create offense. And so they conserve energy on that end. When they conserve energy, they can be downright destructive to a defense because they don't have the length and athleticism with just their size and alarms to bother things even when they're being lazy, they tend to rely on their athleticism too much. So they're not very, they're not gym rats. They're not good at polishing up their skill set because they have this superpower in their athleticism that allows them to beat their peers without having to work as hard as many of their peers have had to work. And so we've seen that archetype fail miserably time and time again.

I should fail relative to the other stars at the top of the league. And the one guy you can point to who really kind of succeeded in that archetype in recent NBA history is Dwayne Wade. And a couple things. He's bigger than all of those guys. He's 6-4 built like a truck. And he was an outstanding defensive player. And those two things are what allowed him to kind of break that mold. And again, he's the exception that proves the rule. So to me, Brandon Miller, big scoring forward, spitting image of Paul George and some of the fluidity and length stuff. Only thing I don't love about him is his release is a little low down on his head, which in the NBA, when guys are testing shots, higher release points like

Paul George, like Brandon Ingram, where they're a little bit more over their head. They're better at getting shots off over defenders. That's my one concern right now, but I think he's almost guaranteed to be a perennial 20-pointed game guy plus for a long time in this league. I think that's the best description

I've ever heard by any analyst on the prototypes of players. That literally is as well done. Seriously, I, you have been able to synthesize all my feelings for years on the air about Westbrook Wall, I always say they're firework shows. They're spectacular.

But then somebody's got to clean up the fireworks show. Who's the cleanup crew after with the turnovers, the no defense? But they are so alluring aesthetically, the Scoot Henderson that you fall in love with them. They're just in their dynamic. I mean, I'm watching Scoot's highlight takes. It's like, oh, I've already liked it. It never drove a ball in the league. I'm a more than a fan.

He shot only 7% from threes. Like many of these, they're not polished. They can't shoot. He won't be a great defender. That's really well put. That is, you know, a lot of the things, it's, it's, I, my son said one time, he says, he goes, I wish vegetables taste as good as chocolate. And I'm like, I know.

And that's, the problem is most stuff that's very bad for you. Like, ice cream is fantastic, and you can eat the pint. Nobody eats a pint of broccoli. And in small doses, that point guard, when you don't rely on them, can be effective. But, I mean, Isaiah and Steph Curry, guys, that's rare where you win a championship to a point guard. And those guys are, let's be honest, they're two of the top 15 players in history, arguably the league. So I'm really interested, though, as we're going to watch this live, it'll be on the podcast. If Portland takes scoot within a minute,

Portland's going to go from, we're not interested in any discussion of a trade to we're taking calms. I don't know what you do here. It's fascinating. Sorry, Jason, I think you do make an excellent point. If you look through the past 40 years of basketball guys, Dwayne Wade is the only downhill rim pressuring guard. That's his first primary skill set that has ascended the mountain and climbed and won a title,

you know, not by himself, but almost single-handedly, right? He doesn't have the cleanup crew that Collins is referring to. He's got Antoine Walker and Shaq putting up 13 a night in the NBA finals. Russ failed in the playoffs repeatedly as one of the worst playoff performers in NBA history. Derek Rose sadly gets injured. Jha has yet to do it too. I think that is the reason that you take Brandon Miller is not only the ceiling too, but I think he immediately helps the Hornets in their deficiencies. He's one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Steve Clifford wants to reenact, get the Hornets back to being a really physical defense. And they were 29th in shooting last year.

How do you maximize Lamello Ball? One of the best young playmakers in basketball, you give him an elite spot-up shooter. That's exactly what Brandon Miller does immediately. So I think he's the right pick. I think he helps them immediately, but he also has a massive ceiling where I think he could be a lead star scoring wing. We've gone through back to the basket centers. We've gone to dominant wings, Kobe Michael. We got into small ball, three and D guys.

Guys, the league is getting big and Europe is part of it. I mean, to me, here's a long, great frame, got to put even more weight on. I look at Brandon Miller and can we argue? And I don't know if this is right or I'm overreacting to recency bias, guys. but the bucks were big, the Laker bubble team was big, Denver was big, the Raptors with Marcus Sol Siaakum were long, are we moving out a small ball? And Europe's a big part of this. Victor when Mignam is another player. Is it going back to more of a big league, but a highly skilled big league? I tend to think that in general, as a society, we overreact the exception to the rule.

It's like, for instance, like if someone said, oh, Denver won the title. and they were awesome offensively. Does that mean we don't need to guard to win? No, that's not what it means. You have to be able to guard to win. Like, they were the exception. And the same thing goes with that Warriors team. I mean, Steph is literally the only player below 6'5 that's in the top 20 all-time NBA players. So maybe anything that he accomplishes, we should just throw aside as a complete outlier, you know what I mean? And that's a thing. Like, yeah, they succeeded playing small ball. They had a 6-6-6-center. They played a 6-7 power forward. And like that that worked because Andreigua is one of the best perimeter defenders to ever play the game.

Draymond Green is a defensive anomaly at his position as one of the best defenders of this era. And Steph Curry is the best small player in the history of the NBA. And so, yeah, you're right. Like if you want to win today, you have to go with what has been reliably great. The best indicator of future performance is past performance, not just one specific thing that you cling to. And so another athlete that can help crash from the perimeter and grab contested rebounds. Like that was an underrated part of that Denver team. It wasn't just Yokic bowling people inside. It's Aaron Gordon and Michael Porter Jr. jumping over the top of people.

It's Bruce Brown jumping over the top of people. Perimeter size is massively important. To the scoot Henderson, Brandon Miller, cup, like, that's the thing is like, Brandon Miller, you know, the worst version of this story is he's Andrew Wiggins. Like, that's the worst version of this story. And Andrew Wiggins was the second best player. the championship team. The Scoot Henderson thing, like it's a huge wide range of outcomes. That doesn't mean he can't win or break that mold. But if he did, he would be the outlier, which as from the

standpoint of a front office means that he's less of a safe bet than Brandon Miller is. Right. And it's the multifaceted impact. And that's part of the value of this wing archetype over the dynamic downhill guard that we all agree on. Logan and I have both been believers that Brandon Miller should go second overall, and he does. And it's beyond just this incredible scoring upside, right? The flashes of playmaking, the versatile defensive impact. He's a better fit in Charlotte as long as they believe that Lamello is a cornerstone piece for them long term.

But now we do have this decision for Portland, which as Colin mentioned, if they take scoot, you got to wonder if they are simultaneously putting Dame over the edge to where he may actually ask out. Logan, we'll go to you first. What's your expectation for the direction that Portland goes here and organizational? If Portland has two brain cells to rub together, they'll deal Damian Lillard. I mean, I just don't understand going in on this core again. I just don't see a title window opening with anything that you can do with this pick. I don't see any stars available on the market that you can pair with Damian Lillard. Importantly, I don't see enough depth pieces to get this roster over the top. I believe in Damien Lillard. I believe in Damien Lillard. Let me make that clear. I think Damien Lillard is still one of the 10 best offensive players in the NBA. I genuinely believe that. I think he's an offensive engine. I think you can win with him as your best offensive player. But around him, you have to have a lot of pieces. I just don't see any area, any route for Portland to take this pick, to take their current assets and build a contending team around Damian Lillard. So I just think you're endlessly chasing your tail when the alternative to this option is to explore taking Scoot Henderson. You put them alongside Aunt Simons, who I love.

You put him alongside Shaden Sharp, who I love. You have a brand new timeline ready to go with all these young assets that you can build around and chase a title down the road, not chase your tail next season. So I think that's what Portland should do with the pick. Colin, what about you? What do you think Portland should do? Move down one spot, take a forward, Cam Whitmore, and get something for Scoot Henderson. It's not going to happen, and I know it. But they've been looking for a forward for 10 years.

Listen, I think generally I'm a believer and get talent, figure the fit out later. It is different, though. This is not the – I said this today. This is not the Packers taking Jordan Love that ticked off Aaron Rogers. Okay, that's a prospect that needed years. This is the Packers taking Justin Herbert, bigger, stronger, more dynamic. Aaron Rogers going, time out. Wait a minute.

That's not an idiot. What's going on? Volume. Another podcast from some has. SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. in an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an I-Heart podcast Guaranteed Human