The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Damian Lillard on Portland Loyalty, McCollum Relationship, Future

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

Colin explains the similarities between Kyrie Irving and Aaron Rodgers, why people shouldn't freak out over Elon Musk buying Twitter, if Jay Wright should entertain NBA coaching offers, and if Jerry West shouldn’t be so irate about his Winning Time portrayal.  Then, 6-time NBA All-Star Damian Lillard joins Colin to discuss why he’s stayed loyal to Portland in an era of NBA player movement (22:00), why so many elite point guards come from small schools (25:00), if stars should take less to build a better roster (28:00), if he would accept a lesser role later in his career (31:00), if he’s bothered by social media criticism (33:00), his reaction to seeing his longtime teammate and friend CJ McCollum get traded (41:00), his first encounter with a trash talking Jordan Poole (45:00), why he’s so tight with Draymond Green (48:00), how he’s handled teammates that don’t love the game like him (50:00), his process for writing a song (55:00), and if he’s fully recovered from his abdominal injury that caused him to miss most of the season. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

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Sign up promo code Colin so they know we and I sent you. The Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandulul Sportsbook. Hi, everybody, Wednesday morning podcast, Damien Lillard. is going to stop by, talk about the NBA playoffs and his buddy, C.J. McCollum, crushing it now for the Pelicans. So I got a couple thoughts heading into it. So we obviously know the Brooklyn Nets have completely imploded. I do not blame Kevin Durant. You know, I don't really blame anybody. I think Kyrie Irving set the tone. And they always say the people who succeed most in life, their personalities perfectly fit their jobs. And this is where I think Aaron Rogers and Kyrie Irving are really solo artists who just happen to be brilliantly talented in a team sport.

I think Aaron Rogers would be better as a singer, not even in a band, just as a solo artist. Grab a guitar, do your own stuff. Kyrie Irving. I mean, we've seen it multiple times now. Doesn't play well with others. In my industry, Keith Oberman, really talented. teamism, working with others, many close allies. It's not his game.

That's why he's been fired five or six times. He's a brilliant writer. Very thought-provoking guy. Emotionally, he can wear you out. But he just happens to be in an industry now with digital where he can pretty much do stuff on his own. That's actually perfect for his skill set and his personality. Listen, Aaron Rogers and Kyrie Irving should have been

tennis stars. Should have been UFC or boxers. They're perfect for it. But sometimes you're just so gifted and Kyrie and Aaron are in a specific job that you make it work. But there are limitations to playoff success for both Aaron and Kyrie because there's so many talented people in those respective professions that there's people that are as talented or more talented that do work well in a team construct. They just. just don't happen to. A prime example of that with Aaron Rogers is Brian Gudenkunds, who runs the Green Bay Packers, was recently asked about the draft in Aaron Rogers. And he said, I'm in communication with Aaron a lot in the off season. But right now is his downtime. And he

really enjoys his downtime, meaning, yeah, I'm not going to be able to really get a hold of Aaron Rogers. Similarly, or conversely, Nathaniel Hackett, new Denver coach, former Packer assistant, was asked about Russell Wilson recently and he said, you know, Russ, Russ likes to be in charge. The guy loves practice. He loves the process. When the practice is over, he looks and says, can we do more? So that's a prime example. Russell Wilson, baseball player shortstop, team construct, football, working with others. That's why he got so frustrated in Seattle. Yep, Pete Carroll wouldn't let him drive the offense and lead the offense. People think I just take shots at Aaron Rogers.

But you get more and more examples of this where you get guys who are really gifted. They're not built for this team stuff, good enough to succeed in it, but not really great enough to dominate it like they should for their skills. Aaron Rogers likes football and is great at football. He doesn't love it. nor is he totally committed to it. It's not who he is. It's not who he's ever been.

He's got his money. He likes his free time. He doesn't pour over tape. This is stuff that's all understood within the league and in fact, within the Packers' organization. It's like Brian Gudenkuntz and Mark Murphy said this offseason. Aaron doesn't have a three-year contract. He's got three one-year contracts. He's his own guy.

He could leave the band at any moment. So Elon Musk bought $20. Twitter and people freaked out. Listen, you've got to be able to get along with people. I say this to all you conservatives listening to this podcast or watching it on YouTube. You do realize that all the TV shows you watch, all the movies you watch, even YouTube, Google. They're mostly run by liberals. Silicon Valley is overwhelmingly 90-10% run by liberals.

If you don't want to use Google, if you don't want to use search engines, if you don't want to use technology, go live in the hills. But that's the reality of it. You better be able to understand people have opinions that don't align with yours. And I say this as liberals and Democrats melted down with Elon Musk buying Twitter, you do realize in my 25 to 30 years in broadcasting. Everything you watch on TV that sports and business is overwhelmingly run by conservatives. In my years at Fox, in my years at Disney, at my years in local TV, 14 years, conservatives owned, conservatives ran on a day-to-day basis, 80-20 split. So if you like sports, know those owners are mostly conservatives. By the way, the richest people in Los Angeles live in Beverly Hills.

They voted for Trump. That's why I say, you've just got to have the ability to handle people. that see the world differently than you. You are its conservatives. You want to watch television? It's all made by liberals. And almost every product you own, there is a conservative behind it. Silicon Valley is mostly run by Democrats.

A lot of those devices, that's conservative money. They're not going to go public with it. Listen, there's NBA owners. NFL owners are overwhelmingly conservative. There's NBA owners who are conservative. They just don't go public with it. So Jay Wright was asked a question yesterday on morning radio if he'd ever be interested in coaching the NBA. And his answer was, who knows?

That is a perfectly reasonable answer to a question. The media generally just doesn't like it. I was thinking about this the other day. the media is seeking closure on stories. They have a lead. They have an arc. They have the final paragraph, the close. They're always looking for closure in the stories.

But if you ask me about my life right now, outside of my kids and my wife, the answer to almost every question is, who knows? I mean, I've been in L.A. for six years. I've had three houses. Will I be in the house I live in from this studio you're watching in one year? Who knows? My contracts run out at Fox and Iheart Radio in three years. Colin, will you be working at one or both? I don't know.

The world's changing. There may be a new platform in three years that doesn't exist today, like a TikTok where I could take my show globally. Who knows? Jay Wright's answer is an easy one to figure out. What he's saying is, I had a great college career. I'm going to hang around that university, for about a year or two upstairs in a cubicle,

and if I'm bored, I'll take calls about the NBA. Too often the media wants a definitive answer. Look at your own life. Outside of your family, isn't everything a... Who knows? I think I'll be in this house. If somebody walks up tomorrow and offers double what it's worth, I'm out. When I started the volume, I called Mark Cuban.

I leaned on some really smart people. and you know I asked him give me some advice for starting a company and across the board their answer was don't be rigid be willing to pivot you may figure out after six weeks something doesn't work get rid of it and something you didn't think work does double down on it so their answer was who knows be twitchy be nimble adapt I think one of the things I see in America with unhappy people. I don't see this with happy people. I see this on social media with unhappy people.

They're rigid. They need you to think just like them. I couldn't give a shit. I really don't. I care about me. You do what you want to do. I am always willing to take a phone call and listen to a pitch. And I think you're doing a disservice to you.

if you don't think the same. I know one of the hardest things for me to do with the volume is going to be to retain many of my most talented people. That's why I've got to make sure I keep in communication. We talk. How are things going? What can I do? How do I serve you?

People should take the call. Always. Because who knows? So Jerry West has been deeply bothered by how he is portrayed in HBO's winning time based on the Jeff Pearlman excellent book about Jerry Bus buying the Lakers and the years of Kareem and Pat Riley and Magic and Norm Nixon wildly entertaining. I really like it. But Jerry West is so bothered by it. He said he'll take it all the way to the Supreme Court, whereas HBO released a statement saying, this is not a documentary.

We are not presenting it as a documentary. My takeaway on this is really simple. We should all be honored that people would write a book and do a film on our careers. And that at some point, basketball is art and the people who create it are artist enablers. And Jerry West is the logo. That in itself is art, right? It's not like the commissioner drew that up. They went to a firm of artists and creators who made the logo.

Jerry West has benefited from that art. He benefited from the artistry of Magic Johnson. And by the way, Los Angeles being the entertainment capital of the world. What a sales pitch to so many stars through the years. Don't you think that was attractive when Lou Al Cinder was in Milwaukee and came to the Lakers? the ethereal living, the sunshine, the Pacific Ocean, Hollywood. So he has benefited greatly in his career from art and the artists in his community and that surround him. I mean, the biggest Laker fan for years was Jack Nicholson, Jerry Buss, toiled in Hugh Heffner's world and Hollywood's world.

They benefited the Lakers greatly from Los Angeles and the entertainment and movie industry. And now he is bothered by art, which he believes is framing him as a sociopath. No, it's not. It framed him in the early episodes as having a temper. His well-chronicaled, difficult childhood has led to that. He acknowledges that is true. and so now he doesn't like how he's by Hollywood being presented. But Jerry needs to understand.

He has been a 50-year beneficiary of the city of Los Angeles and those artists who have been such an attractive feature to many of the stars. For the record, Jeff Perlman's book is better than the show. And many times the book is better than the following television or movie presentation. but I've never thought less of Jerry West watching this. That's the funny thing to me. The early stuff was over the top, but since then he's been a steady hand, in my opinion, watching Winning Time of the Lakers organization,

which had a crazy time owner whose mom was kind of wacko, Kareem was stoic, magic was fun and playful, and he had to balance all of it with a coach that almost died in a bicycle accident. But Jerry, if you benefit from something, and then you feel like you're not benefiting from the same thing you benefited from, I'm not as sympathetic. NFL draft is here. If you've never been on the NFL before,

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Visit 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. All right, one of my favorite players, I've said this before,

if there's two guys in the NBA to hit his shot in the last 10 years, it's Dame Lillard and Steph Curry. I love everything about him, his loyalty, his intensity, his smarts, his art. and I used to live in Portland for six years, so when you watch him here on YouTube, I don't know where you live, and I'm not going to ask for a street address, but that shit looked good.

No, I'm actually at our, like in the back of our practice facility. We got like a stretching area, and I usually come back here as a mat is nice. You see why I'm back here, basically. You see why I'm my spot. You know, in a weird way, Dame, you're perfect for Portland. You know, Weber State, you were allowed to carry it.

They put their arms around you. You've been incredibly loyal. You go back annually. You play every minute in those games. And I love Portland when I was there. Now, for my career, I kind of needed to get to the next level. But, like, I get it. Like, they love the team.

And do you ever feel like from high school college to pro that maybe because of your size, you were overlooked initially and that maybe you're just one of those. those NBA guys that you're more loyal. Just your DNA is you're just a loyal dude. I mean, I don't know you well enough to say that. But like, you're not really interested in chasing things other guys are. And maybe that just comes from your parents. Where does it come from? I think that's right. You know, it comes from my upbringing. And the kind of, the kind of environments that I was raised in, you know, the kind of people that I was raised by, it's not so much that I got such a huge issue with other people doing what they choose, you know, with their career.

That's what feels good to them and that's what makes them happy. Like I don't have an issue with that. But for me personally, you know, I come from a clock in an environment and neighborhood and family of people that, you know, embrace finding a way. You know, I think you hear a lot of people say, you know, the most, fun is in the journey, you know, in the process. And, you know, once you reach whatever it is that you reach, it's like, you know, you have that moment of triumph or joy or happiness or celebration or whatever.

But most of, you know, what you enjoyed and what was fun was the process of you getting to that point. Right. And that's what I come from. You know, I don't, I know who I am as a person and I know how it would feel for me to accomplish what I want to accomplish in the way that it's satisfactory. three to me, you know, and when I think about, you know, ways outside of that, I just know that,

you know, I would be happy in whatever that moment was, but it wouldn't feel how I wanted to feel, you know, and I'm content with that. I'm comfortable with that. And I understand that, you know, I play in the era where it's like, oh, he has never won a ring. This guy didn't do that, you know, and they try to downgrade everything that you've done and what you're capable of and how good you are and things like that. And, you know, I can live with that too, you know, And I think that's just where I am. You know, I can live with that because I know that I put my best foot forward. You know, I know my character is true.

I know I am who I say I am. You know, I'm just, I'm fine with going about it the way that I want to grow up. So I'm going to throw a theory at you. I do this from time to time. You tell me if I'm crazy. I'm going to say great point guards. Steph Davidson. John Morant, smaller school.

Dame Lillard, Weber State. You start looking around the league. A lot of point guards. You start naming them around the league. Yeah. Chris Paul, Wake Forest, James Harden, although not a classic point, Arizona State. When you go around point guards, my thing is,

a lot of the wings and bigs, they come from big schools. But the reason a lot of the point guards come from smaller schools, because you've got to have a chip on your shoulder. This is a big man's league. And the point guards in this league had to carry less talented people in college. And Damien, this happens in the NFL. Almost all the great quarterbacks,

they didn't go to Ohio State. They didn't go to Oklahoma. You know what they went? NC State, Texas Tech, because you have to figure out how to carry less talented people. And I look at you and I think, you've been asked to carry a program since you were 17 years old.

Yeah. So do you think my theory is nuts? I don't think it's nuts at all. And I also think it's not just having to carry a program, but it's the development of your development as a player and as a man. You look at a lot of those small school guys you get named. And we came into a situation where we had to buy into a program. We had to buy into culture.

and to a belief that it's like, this is the program that you're joining. It wasn't like we came in there and they was like catering to us and, you know, making sure we was comfortable and making sure they didn't step on our toes. It was like, look, when I got to Weber State,

my coach said, if you don't want to show up the class on time, if you don't want to be at every practice and work hard, if you don't want to be coachable, if you want to, you know, get in trouble and chase girls around campus all the time and give us a bad reputation, just don't come, you know, like, we just going to send you home, so don't come.

And I was the best recruit that they had, you know, like, and they told me that from jump. So, like, when you come to, when you're a part of something like that, I was, I was there for four years, you know, and they basically raised me. And they, you know, they taught me to keep a standard and, you know, how to lead and how to be the example and how to be accountable for myself, you know, and to care about other people. to do things beyond myself. And that helped me, you know, become a better leader, but it also made me a player that could pull other people along,

you know, with my ability. So, you know, when you look at that compared to if I would have went to Kentucky, you know, where it's like, I'm going here knowing, like, I don't really gotta even beat that class. It's real. Like, I just gotta get through this season. And I'm going top 14, you know, like,

so I think it's just different, you know, and I think when you get to the NBA and it requires so much responsibility. It requires you to be able to, in the NBA where everybody's making the amount of money we make, guys aren't going to listen to you or follow you or, you know, believe in you if you don't have those characteristics, you know. And I think that's why you see a lot of guys that are talented enough and, you know, they come in with hype. But, you know, people looking at him like, man, this dude's selfish, you know, like he out for self and they're not going to follow you and that leads to lose. You know, I've talked about this that baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Broadcasting doesn't have a salary cap.

So I can't really relate to this. But I do think when you watch Brooklyn play last couple years, they just don't have a bench. You know, they got a lot of money at the top. You know, Lakers, they don't have a great bench. Warriors will have to probably get rid of Andrew Wiggins. You won't have as much depth. But I'm not going to tell a guy to not take. the most money he can.

Like, as a professional athlete, you have a music career that makes money. You have an apparel career that makes money. Yeah. If I was your agent, and I said, Dame, listen, you're very lucky.

Basketball players have apparel money. Football guys don't. You have music because you're gifted there. Most athletes don't. Is it offensive to say, I'd take a little less to get like a really couple solid role bench guys? Like if somebody says that to you or suggests it, are you like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I got like eight years to make my money. How does a pro athlete see that in salary cap sports when they're a star especially?

Well, I think there's multiple ways to look at it. For me personally, I know that I've made max money over my last two contracts. But I'm also looking at, you know, when I look around the league, like you use Brooklyn as an example, and you use. use the Lakers as an example. Those two teams have two guys making basically the same number that I'm making. We have one. So the way I look at that is we still have opportunity to have a balanced roster. You know, now I've actually taken less money.

Like my first max extension, I didn't get the full max. I take less money. And, you know, our team was kind of in the same position, you know. It was like my work and what I was coming to do every season was the same. So the next time it came around, it wasn't a situation where I was like, oh, am I going to take less money or am I not? It was like, this is on the table. I'm taking it, you know? Like, that's what was on the table.

But in a situation where if they, you know, they were to come to me and say, we could get this done with this happening. I would definitely be willing to listen, you know, but the reason for that wouldn't be because of what money I make outside of this. You know what I mean? Let me throw this at you. You're going to age well because you're a shooter. And I've said this before.

Like I said this on the years ago. Russell Westbrook is a great athlete. I don't know if you'll age well because when you get slower and can't beat people off the drivel, there are always room in this league for shooters. I mean, Steph Curry and you could play forever. You know, Kobe, but there does become a time where it's like, I don't want to play nine minutes a night. You're still, you have many years left as a marquee player. Do you ever think about how it'll end?

Will you be like, man, if I could go to a winning culture, first guy off a bench, I would have no problem if you're like, it's not my jam. But part of me thinks, man, if I was tight with guys, I love my crew. How does a star think about it? Do you ever even think about that? Is that ever in your mind? I do. I think about it.

You know, not I'm going to go somewhere and get him off the bench. I never think about it in that way, but I do think like, you know, when I'm not at the height of my career anymore, but I'm still a player that can be a part of winning just because of my mentality and I can shoot the ball. I think the game well. I see the game well. I watch a lot of things. So I know what I'm up against, you know, every night.

I can play a long time. But I think, like, you know, the way I look at it is like the next five years, six years, I know that I can be very good because I don't live a hard life. When I step off the court, you know, I'm not doing crazy. I don't do drugs and out all the time drinking and staying up late. You know, I don't, I take care of myself. So I know that's going to give me a great chance. to play. I take care of my body. I train the right way. And like you said, I can shoot the ball

and I'm a student at a game. So, you know, once I get past that point and I'm like, okay, I'm not, I'm not in my prime no more, but, you know, I can still give the team some good minutes. I'm not, you know, I don't want to just be out there being a liability. You know, that's what I'm not going to get to that point. But when I get to that point where it's like I'm not what I was, but I'm still a good player and I can help a team. You know, I definitely can see myself doing that. You know, I said on the air today on TV, I said NBA players are like international soccer stars. They become basketball stars and deal with a blowback.

They become apparel stars and deal with a blowback. And they also become social icons in fashion or music often. You know, whereas Josh Allen can be a great quarterback for the Buffalo Base. bills. That's where it ends. He's not making a zillion in shoes. He's not a music guy. He's not a social icon. Just a big dude with a good arm. Basketball players come into this sport younger than football players or baseball players. Your thrust into the national spotlight with shoes, with merchandise, with basketball, iconic in often the black community. A lot is asked of you, socially, culturally. And I, Adam Silver said a couple years ago, he said a lot of my players are

I get it. I don't see it with you. But is there ever a time? God, Damien, you're literally, you're just, you're, you're out there all the time. Does it get to you? Are you ever like, man, I need a vacation. This social media stuff, you seem to handle it well. And the commissioner said two years ago, I got unhappy players here.

And I'm like, and I see KD fire back at guys. You've reached out to me a couple times on social, but I don't, you're kind of playful on it. You're fun on it. You know what I mean? You'll go after somebody. But tell me, take me to your space. Does it ever bother you, the criticism and the harshness? Sometimes the, I would, when I was younger, the criticism really bothered me because I just carried a chip on my shoulder, like about everything because I felt like I had to earn everything. So every little thing I felt like I had to fight for. But I would say like over the last, you know, three or four years, I've just been more like, I've learned that people don't,

really do their homework. You know, people just, right. People, people speak on things and react to things on a service level. And I'm like, everything that I do is like, has depth.

You know what I'm saying? Like, so people don't take the time. It's easier to say, oh, he just tried to get an all-star game. But like, I was mad about not making an all-star game

in 2014, 15. It's like, that was eight years ago, you know, and people still say that now when really it's like, well, since then I didn't

made all-N-B-A how many times I've been first team since then I've been an all-star how many times since then I've averaged 30 points I've been you know I don't miss games all the way up to this season where I had an abdominal injury

I was out there you know I play I don't sit out of practice you know it's like I just feel like I give my real self people ask me a question I tell them the real answer if I get mad about something I get mad if I like something I like it.

And I feel like because I was consistent at being my, people, people wasn't okay with that. You know, it's almost like they rather have something that's pretend or something that's fake. And once I kind of stepped back and realized that, I was less moved by who was saying what because it's like they don't even know me. Because if they knew me, it's no way that they would get at me like this. You know what I'm saying? So like, I'm not really, to answer your question, I'm not as bothered as I used to. Of course, some stuff come up now.

where I'm like, how can you say this? And then on the other hand, you know, say this. I kind of, I look at stuff that way now. But I think the reason why I come off as not as bothered by it, because I do, I am a lot of places, you know, I do Gatorade and Adidas and Modelo and all these different things. But I think the reason why I can be at peace and, you know, kind of be cool about all of it is because I don't do anything that doesn't, that's not in line with who I am as a

So it seems like everything that I do like Modelo is like I'm not a big beer drinker, but I do feel like the fighting spirit represents me. You know what I'm saying? Like with Gatorade, you know what I'm saying? Boxing is my favorite sport outside of basketball. I partner with a boxer. My music is playing in the background of the commercial. I drink Gatorade. You know what I'm saying? Like sure. It's easy. You know what I'm saying? So it's like everything that I do. that people see me doing is in line with who I am, so I'm not stretching myself thin doing things that is not who I am. This week's gold medal performance goes to one of my favorite people in college basketball. Jay Wright shocked the college hoops world by announcing his retirement from Villanova. With a transfer portal and the unregulated NIL rules, it's easy to see why. He doesn't want to be a used car salesman. Jay is a young 60, but he's a two-time champ, been to four final fours, twice been national coach of the year. He's got dignity. His legacy is intact. He's going out at the right time. This week's gold medal performance sponsored by Legacy Precious

Metals. The uncertainty in the world is leading to market volatility. My friends at Legacy Precious Metals are here to work you through why gold is the way forward through these unsteady times. Legacy precious metals can advise you how to roll your existing retirement account into a gold IRA and provide steps to take should you want to hold physical metals in your home. Call Legacy Precious Metals at 866-674-HR-D. That's 866-674-HERD. Or download your free investors guide at legacy p.m. Investments.com. in an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the

enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was

having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is

right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, on TikTok. So C.J. McCollum, I have a couple friends that are season ticket holders. Great guy. Smart guy. You guys, you know, there were years, I had said a couple times on the air, there's a little duplication here.

I'd move C.J. McCollum. I'd get a wing defender. But you guys work so well together. It's hard. It was almost like the Splash Brothers. You liked each other. You respected each other. you got two 20-point-a-game guys in the back court.

I mean, the league's moving away from centers to wings and smalls. You're probably not surprised by his success. Like, when I look at the Pelicans, they kind of needed, not a grown-up, but they kind of needed a little bit of like an adult to come into the room and go, okay, all you young chest pieces, I'm going to move you around. And I see, so you're not, I imagine you're not surprised at all by CJ's success and the Pelicans given the son's trouble. I'm not surprised at all. I mean, to go back to what you was saying, like, me and CJ had a real friendship. You know, we didn't have one of these like, oh, that's my brother.

And, you know, like, we spent time together. We went on vacation together. I was at his house. He was at my house. We talked on the phone late at night about, you know, our struggles. You know what I mean? Like, and to this day, we still, we still talk, you know, and that's one of the, in my career, that's one, this is one of the things I'm most disturbed. you know um because it's crazy me and him would always talk about we knew this moment would come you know eventually if we couldn't win a championship we would tell each other if we don't win a championship in the next couple years like it's going to be over you know it's like it's going to be over so it wasn't like we didn't know like even the night before he was traded we was on a phone

at midnight like I think something about to happen you know like something is about to happen And he was like, yeah, man, you know, we, you know, we knew. So, you know, it's been tough. But I'm not surprised by it. And I said it. I think that he was exactly what New Orleans needed. They got a lot of talent. You know, they got Herb Jones and Diane Williamson and Brandon Ingram.

And now you add, you know, Alvarado. They got a lot of Murphy or, you know, is that his name? Trey Murphy, is that his name? Yep. I mean, they got a lot of, they got a good team. And you had a dynamic, you know, scoring guard that has experience, that's tough, you know, he unselfish. You get it, you get a player like that and you put that with them, it's makes them dangerous like they are. And I also think that, you know, with me and CJ, it was two guards, you know, and it's, it's hard for two guards to coexist and do well and win big. And we just figured out how to do it, because we

actually liked each other and we was good. I cared about his success and he cared about mine and we both just wanted to win enough, you know. But I think naturally a guard goes better with a wing, you know. I just think it's a better fit. So I think him and B.I is just a better, it just flows easier to have a guard and a wing instead of two guards. You know, it's funny.

Jordan Pools ascension is pretty amazing. 28th pick. At some point he's down in the G league. And then I watched him. And I talked to a buddy of mine who's a warrior fan. I'm like, dude, what's that guy doing in the G league? He's explosive. And he's not a catch and shoot guy.

He's not Steph the shooter. But there's a little step to him. There's a little, he's got a little flash to his game. Did you see him coming? I mean, did you look at him and think, oh, that guy is going to be 22 a game? Or like, were you caught a little off guard too? I wouldn't say I was caught off guard because I didn't really pay attention to him until like, you know, maybe like two years ago we played against Golden State and Steph was hurt, Tramon was hurt,

and we was playing against him. And he wasn't playing a lot of minutes, but he like did a move and he scored on me. And he hit a shot. He had a three. And he started talking shit. And I was like, you know, I don't, I don't talk shit. Like I don't say nothing. I just play.

If somebody say something to me, I'll say something back, but whatever. He said something, so I kind of look back like, what? You know? So, we keep playing or whatever, and they had like a bunch of young dudes out there, and they was high energy. They had it going that night. You know, you run up against one of those young teams that just got it going that night.

So I think I had like 40, but we lost that to go to state. And towards, like, I think it was towards the end of the first half, maybe, or whatever. I'm at the free throw line, and he's just back there just talking. So I turned to him and I'm like, man, like, shut the fuck. No I'm saying? Like, shut up. That's how I said. He was like, make me.

He was like, make me. So my natural instinct was like, bro, like, I train in combat. Like, I'm from Oakland. That was my natural. So we start going back and forth. And then like shortly after that, we played him on, I think, MLK Day in Portland. And he was on a bench. And I started the game real slow.

And he on a bench, he says, Because, oh, he ain't on shit tonight. That's what he's on the bench. So I turn and look at him. So then Draymond is sitting next to him. And me and Draymond are real cool. So in that game, I end up scoring 60 points and we beat them in Portland. I remember that.

So I end up scoring 60 points and we beat them. And I just remember telling Dr. Ma, I'm like, man, I don't mess with that dude like that. Like, I don't like them. But then from that from those interactions, I paid more attention to him. And as I paid more attention to him, you know, I started to notice his game more like, oh, he actually got something to him. And he got like, you know, confidence about him. So like I paid more attention to him and I noticed him getting a lot better.

So I can't say he caught me by surprise, but it is impressive to see like the growth. But I think coming under, you know, Draymond and Steph and club. you can definitely see the impact that they've had on them. So, I mean, it's definitely been impressive, though. By the way, I love Draymond. He's part of my podcast network. I freaking love the guy. I've never had a relationship with a pro athlete who works harder.

He works like a broadcaster. I mean, I'm not kidding. The game's over. He, like, rushes home and does a podcast. I'm like, bro, you don't have to do that. Like, he is, why do you think you guys connect? Well, what is it? I think we connect.

because like he just is who he is. Like even when people get mad at him and they like, oh, you're not even that good. You just do this. You just do that. He like, he keep the same energy, you know, and he is who he is. And I can appreciate that because, you know,

when people talk, I listen. And when people behave a certain way when they have success, I pay attention. When they behave a certain way when they struggle, I pay attention to that. So, Jermann is one of the few people that I can say, respect in all of those situations. Right.

You know, his response and his reaction in all those situations. And then even in person, when me and him happened did like this, he'll step to me, I'll step to him. You know, we didn't got double text before. And then after the game, we're talking, you know, like nothing happened. Just like. Yeah. But he's being who he really is and I'm being who I really am.

So I think because of that, you know, we've always gotten along really well. from like the pre-draft, the combine of Chicago, we, or, what was it, the rookie transition program, like me and Dremont, you know, we connected over that. And, you know, I remember him talking about like, man, I'm going to drop to the second round. I'm better than these dudes. And I was telling them, like, bro, you're going, like, you're going to be all right, you know. So, like, we've always connected like that. You know, there were rumors.

about a year ago, maybe less, about Ben Simmons in Portland. Yeah. And one of the things I said, I'm like, man, Damien loves basketball. He's not going to be great with this. If you don't love basketball, if you're indifferent, it's not going to work. And you know, Dame, not everybody loves basketball. Some guys love what basketball does for them. That's fine.

I mean, I love broadcasting. Not everybody loves it. They like to check. I look at this situation and, Brooklyn, and I don't know Ben Simmons, but I'm like, man, if you love it, I mean, Michael Jordan was fighting with a broken toe to play. And the doctors are like, you can't play. You have broken feet. Like, I watch it and I look at him, and I'm not an expert, but I wonder if he loves the game.

And, Dame, have you ever played with guys that you don't think love it? Yeah, I play with people that I was just like, you know, when it's going well, they really enjoy it. You know, but everything that comes with the game, you know, it's a lot of, you know, you beating yourself up. You know, you're tired. You've got to travel. Like it. And then there's those times where everybody's going to have that hot, you know, wind streets, big scoring nights, hot street, whatever. It's a lot of things that can get you on a high where you're just loving it.

But there's more situations outside of that where it requires you love in a game to push through. And I think when those moments come, which they come off, and you notice in a lot of players where it's like, he don't really love it, love it. You know, he enjoys it. But like, you know, if I tweak my ankle in the first quarter, like, I'm going to walk it off. I'm not going to the back.

If I do a little something to my wrist or if something happened where it's not like nothing, but it's a little bit of something, I'm going to test it out myself before I'm going to have the training. The training staff come check me out for, and I'm out the game. Like, no, I'm going to like walk it off. I'm going to take a shot. I'm going to do something where I'm testing it myself because like I want to be out here. You know, it's been a lot of times where our staff would be like, so damn, you know, tonight, you know, we got a back to back tomorrow.

You know, what do you think about, you know, tonight? Just sitting this one and then, you know, we'll have you for the second I have it back to back. like, well, I'm playing tonight and I'm playing tomorrow. If I can't play, like, we're going to find out during the game. We're not going to go into this, you telling me, like, I'm going to play tonight. If my body don't recover or like, we'll see, you know. But it's just I want to play. I want to be out there, you know.

So, and I don't, it takes a lot to a lot of love to be that way. because I have games where I, you know, the East Coast Road trip, middle of the trip, and I, man, I'm in the layup lines and I'm just like, my body is like, man, I do not want to be out here right now. And I might start the first quarter slow, but like second quarter is going, it's going to turn on and it's going to be there. But my love for the game allows me to have that moments. Yep. It's like, man, I don't want to be out here, but I know something going to get me there. And then I get there.

So you definitely got to love the game, man. I don't think it's I don't think it's that many people that really, really truly love it like that. Finally. Now, this is going to sound like I just don't know anything, but I'm going to ask you a music question. So when you're creating a song, does it start with a melody? Is there a lyric? I mean, have you ever driving in your car and you're just thinking about something and you hear something and think it's a sentence? Or is the hook a melody?

When you create something, is a lot of it ad-libbed? Or do you go into the studio? You have a real sense. I mean, I've watched a lot of these documentaries on songs. I mean, I was watching one on the Beatles like two months ago. And they were sitting there playing for like 40 minutes. And then one of them rift for like four seconds. And they all went, that's it.

That's it. Like, take me to the genesis. of a song. Where's the hook? The melody? Is it lyrics? Where does it come from? I mean, for me, I'm usually, it usually comes from whatever the production sounds like. You know, I, like for me, I rap. So, I'll have, you know, a specific producer that I work with because he makes the sound that I typically like. So he, I'm usually getting a lot of my beats from him. I go to the studio and, you know, I'll just listen to, you know, say they send me 60 beats. I'll play one.

I'll let it play for about a minute. And in that minute, I'll know, like, how do I feel about this? Do this move me anyway? And I'll be like, go to the next one. And it'll play the same, it'll play another one. Then I'll go to the next one. And then I'll hear one. It'll just do something to me.

And then I'll be like, Luke that. So the beat will just continue to play and play. Sometimes I'll sit there 30 minutes just like, and I'll just be mumbling to myself. Like it'll literally be like that. I'm in like just kind of on the couch, just mumbling to myself. And then I'll go into my notes and I'll find something.

And I'll be like, it'll be one line. And I'll start with that line. And, you know, that usually would determine the direction that I'm going to go in with the song. And once I do that, then it's like, I like to find a way to, I like to find a way to incorporate some type of melody within that. It's not like, oh, this don't sound like this. It's going to sound like that. It's like everything is piece after piece for me.

You know, I think it's different for everybody, but I'm never just like, okay, this is the hook. Okay, I'm going to say this. Okay, this is what, you know, I'm just kind of like piecing it together as I sit there. And then other times, I'll hear a beat in the car. I could be driving and I could just start thinking of words. You know, I could just start thinking of rhymes in my head. And sometimes I'll write it down so I remember it as just like a foundation or something. And then when I get to the studio, I already have a foundation of what I was thinking at that time.

And sometimes I forget how I said it to make it fit into the beat. Right. I got to find it again. But like, that's usually how my presence is. All right. I was concerned that that was going to be the worst question you've ever been asked in the history of your career. Oh, that's a good question because I've always, I've always wondered. Like, I wonder how other people do it until I was in a studio with Wayne. I was in a studio with Lil Wayne one time.

And I was just like, oh, so he just, you know, he was just going from track. He was kind of doing something a little bit similar when I was there. Or it was just like he would play a beat. He had just going there and stand at the mic and just start rapping. He just started saying stuff. And then he was like, all right, let me hear something else, you know. And then he had just wrapped, like, he just constantly is rapping, rap, wrapping. So it wasn't like he was writing nothing down.

He's just like piecing it together, but on the mic, you know. So it was, it was impressive. But I've seen people for different. How's your abdomen injury? Oh, good. 100%. So you're good now. Good, yeah.

You feel as healthy as you felt? I feel as healthy as I've felt in the long term. just like the number one thing like with my with my injury that I have was I've had it for so long like the first time I I started to deal with it was in like 16 but it wasn't as bad as it got it was just like at the end of practice I would be like it would just be locked up I wouldn't be able to like I can't run anymore you know like and then the next day I would feel fine and then it would just lock up at the end like the more I pounded on it it would just tie it. lighten up and I would get more uncomfortable. And then the next year it was a little worse. The next year was a little worse. And then I think last season was not this past season that just finished, but 21, 21 season,

that was the worst it had been. And then I think just going from the season straight to get ready to go play in the Olympics, like by the time, by the time I got to Vegas, like at our first practice, like I told, you know, I told Poppin and like, man, I, and they was like, you know, just let us know what you need. So I basically limped all the way through like Vegas through Tokyo, you know, and everybody on the team was like, man, just give us what you give us.

And I was like, shit, I'm here now. So I might as well finish it out. But I think just, you know, that part, I knew it was done. And then I like had my wedding coming up. I had my honeymoon planned. I'd already pay for everything. So I couldn't, I couldn't schedule the surgery. And then the recovery in that window of time.

So I got married in September. And we got back from the Olympics in like mid-August or something like that. So I just didn't have a window of time. So I was like, whatever, I played through it before. So I took some time off. Then I started training again. And then when I came back to training camp, I knew the first day at camp, like, there's going to be a tough year, you know,

but I didn't see it getting to the point that it got to. It just kept getting worse. So, you know, I went to see some specialists and they was like, yeah, you need to have surgery. So I just went on and went and did it. And, you know, I know now for sure that I made probably the best decision for my career. Well, a member of the 75th anniversary team in the NBA, one of the class guys in the league, easy to root for on a beautiful Oregon afternoon. I appreciate you doing this. You're a busy guy.

You got a million people grabbing at you. I'm a huge fan. And this is great. Draymond's going to love this too. He's a big dog in this podcast world. You could be if you wanted to be, but I really appreciate it, Dame. I appreciate your having me, man, for sure. Much respect.

The volume. Make sure to check out the Dremon Green show. I brought Dremon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope, also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardweight with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff To Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.