The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Dr. J Talks “Soul Power” Documentary, Drew Dalman Retires From Bears

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

Colin’s joined by NBA legend Julius Irving to discuss his new documentary Soul Power: The Legend of the American Basketball Association. Finally, Colin reacts to the shocking retirement from Chicago Bears Center Drew Dalman. How will this impact Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears going forward?  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. to the 1021 podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor American beverage. If you think about some of the most iconic drinks in the country, the ones you grab at a barbecue,

the ones you raise to celebrate your team that have been part of your story for decades, Coke, Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, there's something people don't always think about. The companies behind those brands are still making. their drinks right here in the U.S. While there's a lot of talk about bringing manufacturing back, America's beverage companies never left. They're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometown. So 275,000 men and women across all 50 states, real jobs, good paying jobs, the kind of jobs you can raise a family on. So more than 100 years, those brands have been part of everyday lives and they're still here, still investing,

still operating in communities around the country. So if you care about strong local economies and companies that walk the walk, check out the good work and what they're doing, at we deliver for America.org. Well, like the rest of you, I love a good sports documentary. And when I heard there was a doc on Amazon Prime about the ABA, for many reasons I was fascinated. It's called Soul Power, the legends of the ABA. So I've said many times on my show The Herd, 10 times, 15 times, the first basketball player I fell in love with was Julia Serving. But I was born in 1964, as Julius now joins us. And I didn't watch sports until 1972.

I remember it clearly on a black and white TV, Julius. I watched the Miami Dolphins at the time Washington Redskinned Super Bowl, dolphins won 14 to 7. It was about that time. I'm six years old, seven years old. I'm getting into sports. So my mom bought me a subscription to Sports Illustrated. So I could watch baseball was the national pastime on TV, college football, college basketball was big.

But like anything else in life, the one thing I couldn't get was the ABA. So I had to rely on the sporting news, which actually did ABA guides, and Sports Illustrated twice put you on the cover. I remember this. So I'm in my formative years, and I'm like, who's Dr. J? Nobody's called Dr. J. So because I didn't get, you didn't have a TV contract. Because I didn't get ABA games as a Seattle kid, my parents bought me an ABA ball. So it's fascinating to me. So let's go back. And I've always felt that the NBA should include ABA numbers and stats. And the reason I do is something I think you'll believe in,

that I didn't know this about the ABA, Julius. I knew about the nuggets and the spurs. I knew about you. I knew about how many good players there were. I did not know much about the exhibition games with the NBA in which the ABA teams clobbered them regularly. So let's talk. Let's start with that. The NBA in the 70s was considered a little white and overcoached. And the ABA was more stylistic. It was more fun. It was more fashionable. It was a little rowdy. When you matched up against those NBA teams, was there a chip on you, I know your league's shoulder facing like the adult. the parent league that you knew in many instances you were superior to.

Yeah, I played in two of those games, and ABA versus NBA. And the excitement surrounding it was unbelievable because it was just the exhibition season. And, you know, we had training camp, play exhibition games, and then played a regular season. So everyone always look forward to the regular season and the playoffs. And that was the big deal. But these exhibition games against the NBA, you know, became a big deal more so for the ABA than the NBA because the ABA was the league that was trying to establish itself, also trying to prove it and self-worthy. And, you know, wanted to have some bragging rates. So you beat an NBA team.

They're going to make excuses. They're going to say, well, our guys aren't in shape. Right. And it's only a practice game or whatever. but, you know, the ABA guys who were probably younger and more excitable, kind of like young NBA players are now, you know, looking forward to having the chip on their shoulder and all of that good stuff. So winning those games, especially if you're playing on your home court, because the city that you're in, you know, would always stick a chest out a little bit and say, hey, yeah, you know, we knocked those guys off. And, you know, the league's been around longer. and, you know, those names are known.

People know Oscar Robinson's name, Clyde Frazier, Will Chamberlain, you know, Wes Ansel. They know those guys' names, and, you know, we took them down. Those are the same guys. You know what, guys? If they cut, they bleed just like we do.

If they get an elbow, they bend over and they act like they're hurt, just like we do or whatever. So, you know, we're all human beings and because you wear a title and you're your, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're going to make you different.

Uh, so, so it was a good confidence boosted for us. And, you know, a lot of people who went to those games alive became believers. And also, you know, that served to, uh, feed the cause. And the cause was, you know, we had seen the AFL and the NFL, you know, merged someone league. So we had witnessed that and globally, this same type of thing was happening. It was happening in soccer and it was happening in other sports that have played universally, not necessarily in the United States. So that became a mission for the ownership.

The players, you know, my opinion was I came out of school after my junior year. I played two varsity seasons. And our team had been invited to the NIT, even though I record was good enough to be invited to the NCAA tournament. We weren't. And it felt like we were snubbed. And after that, after my junior year, I got approached by an agent. And the numbers that they started talking about, you know, were comparable to the best players in the NBA. And they said, this is going to go away.

I mean, if the league folds, it's going to go away. and if the NBA continues to, you know, maybe put you out of business or, you know, maintains a superiority complex, then those numbers are going to go away. And, you know, 100,000 is going to turn into 25, 30,000 or whatever. So, you know, I took the deal. I took the deal. It cost me a lot because I was, I had to forego being an Olympian. And I had played in the Olympic development program.

And, you know, at my size and with my game, I was leading score and rebounder in the Olympic development program. We went over to Russia, Poland, and Finland played. And, you know, I was a shoe to make the team. But that in that era, representing your country and playing for the United States of America in 1971, 72, was not. the most popular thing to do. It's not like we were just dying to do it. So I chose I chose

the pro rote. And at that time, you know, this is 20 years before pros were allowed to play in the Olympics. So you had to be an amateur to play. And, you know, sorry about, you know, getting off this subject, but I'm just kind of, this fill space is very, very important in terms of the ABA story and the ABA as a hockey series because there's so much to it beyond just basketball. You know, there's the culture, you know, that we have. There's the racial tension, you know, that was evident. And then there's, you know, just the global situation where, you know, we're still learning things.

And there are a lot of things that have gone on for hundreds of years. that haven't been fixed yet. So who's going to fix this? Who's going to fix this? So basketball couldn't be the most important thing for me in my life, but it was it was the path that I needed to take. Yeah. Yeah.

What's interesting, because I grew up in the 70s, you know, the NBA was not a rich league in the 70s. In fact, I can remember the NBA finals being on tape. delay after the 11 o'clock news. Young fans now that can watch every game every night. So I remember NBA teams at that time, Julius, traveled on commercial, first flight out of town out of Seattle. They traveled.

So what was travel, right? That's right. So what was travel like hotels travel in the ABA, which was financially in a tougher spot than even the NBA in the early 70s? Yeah, so, you know, we didn't have the top-notch hotels. We had what was available to us. We had roommates. You know, everybody had to pick a roommate.

So no single rooms. I didn't experience a single room until I got in the NBA and I was in Philadelphia. And I didn't want a single room. Actually, Steve Mix was my roommate for five seasons. That was my boy. And I learned a lot from him and he learned a lot from me. So, yeah, the accommodation piece, I don't know. You know, if your college team was in the Big Ten or maybe, you know, out there in a PAC 12 or whatever, you know,

maybe the travel was a little better. Maybe the hotel accommodations were a little better, you know. But, you know, I played with the Minutemen, formerly the UMass Redmond, and we were in the Yankee Conference. Right. So I travel. I travel with us a lot by bus. I mean, we bused over to Buffalo. We bused down to Penn, Pennsylvania to play Penn.

And then all throughout New England, we played Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, you know, all of those schools. You were built for it. And we took buses. So the move to the ABA was actually a step up in terms of travel and in terms of hotel accommodation. So I'm from Seattle. So another player who was groundbreaking. with Spencer Haywood. So I, yeah.

So, you know, I grew up not only with a downtown Freddie Brown, DJ, Gus Williams, Jack Sigma Sonics, I grew up with Spencer Haywood, John Brisker, the young teams. And I tell people this, because for young fans, the ABA, this is why I supported the Live Tour to the PGA. My takeaway is, folks, watch what Lyft and Uber did to taxis. You need disruptors in society.

And the ABA was really the, one of the first disruptors in sports in this country. And when, I mean, you were a nine-time All-Star, five in the NBA, four in the ABA. You were a three-time, you were a four-time NBA. 16-time All-Star. So you were six- I was an All-Star every season, but in terms of all-pro, that was five in the NBA. And four, first team in the NBA.

I already played there five years. So I was second team the other year. So in the history of American basketball, professional basketball, there's a real argument that the most unrewarded, overlooked player is you, that you were, you spent probably 40% of your best days, you know, you're in your athletic prime in the ABA. Have you ever thought about, I mean, do you regret that decision? Have you ever thought, man?

because the Olympics back in 72 wasn't what they are now. We watched for gymnastics. We watched for a lot of things. The dream team kind of made Olympic basketball a showcase. But when I look at you, I think, of all the great players, you probably have been overlooked more than any great player. Because I remember in the 70s turning on the TV, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and watching you against the Blazers and thinking, what am I? watching. Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever had regrets about your your journey? It's an excellent question. And I kind of stand on the ground that the journey that I took,

the path that I took made me who I am today. You know, never one to ego trip and feel like I deserve more than I've received. I'm more sensitive to the guys who get no recognition. I at least get some recognition. I was on eight covers of Sports Illustrated and multiple colors of Sport magazine and, you know, participated in a lot of charitable endeavities which led to endorsements.

Yeah, shoe deal with converts, yeah. My shoe deal with Converse and Fitz balding and, you know, my invitation to become a Coca-Cola bottleer with Bruce Llewellyn. And so there were things that happened. I've had a good life. I've had a very, very good life. And could it be better? I don't know. It could be different.

It could be different. But my empathy goes, you know, to the guys who have passed on. don't have the recognition, their families, they don't have the financial support, you know, of pensions and gifting. And so there's things that are more important than my ego. And I think that my statistics can be matched with anybody's. I mean, you know, they're the guys who came after me and played better in the NBA than they played in the ABA. And my stats, in the NBA were probably a little better than the NBA, but I was playing with a different team.

I came my whole career with the Philadelphia 76ers. The first day I got there, the general manager came in and said, look, we got George McGuinness here, we got Doug Collins. So we don't need you to score 30 points a game. And I've never experienced that where I've gone and the coaches told me to tone it down.

Or general manager has said tone it down. And so that were a burst in which, you know, the Dr. J of the ABA came out. But most of the time, it was, as you had said about the NBA, you know, slow down, structure. Structure. Playing a certain type of game. So I was encouraged to play that type of game, although inside of me, you know, there was always that ability to do more. And who asks an athlete to do less? Nobody.

It's kind of crazy. Well, it's interesting because it's so much of your journey is fascinating. And the aforementioned Philadelphia 76ers is one of the first teams I loved. And they had Steve Mix, ABA, you, ABA, George McGuinness, ABA, Bobby Jones, ABA. It was an ABA All-Star team. Caldwell Jones. Yeah. That 76ers team was an ABA team winning the NBA finals, was it not?

Absolutely. Going and losing the Portland and winning ultimately in 83 against the Lakers. We had much ABA representation there. Plus, you know, the guys who didn't get the ABA experience, I always, you know, taught them things that I brought over from the ABA, you know, And I used to tell Andrew Tony, I'd say, you know, George Gervin came in my second year in Virginia. And the practice was over, and he wanted to go home. And I was like, gee, we got work to do.

You ever hear overtime? So we would stay in the gym and it was at this Jewish community center. We would stay in the gym and we play one-on-one and, you know, maybe put in an extra hour, an extra hour and a half and go home exhausted. And when Andrew Tony came in, it was the same thing with him. I said, look, you know, you're going to be my new Iceman Gervin because you're really good. And I could use the work myself. So, you know, I would keep him afterwards.

And that was something that Ray Scott showed me in the ABA about, you know, staying after putting in the extra time. And, you know, really the other things about taking care of yourself. and then the other things about just some fundamental things that you need to do during the course of the game. You don't have to always jump as high as you possibly can. And you see it in today's game

where guys, they step back and shoot set shots. Yeah. Whatever. So the jump shot, you know, is a little bit overstated because, you know, the true jump shot where you go to your pinnacle and your peak and then you let it go, you don't have to do that. It actually takes more.

energy and it's actually a risk reward shot because you probably if you probably will shoot less of a percentage from shooting that way as opposed to stepping back and shooting the set shot. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook, March is here. You know what that means. College basketball going to take center stage. The stakes are rising. The shots are falling. Hey, now's the time to use Hard Rock Bet's app. With basketball on every night, every night a shot to build the same game parley and score a major bucket. If you ever miss like tip off, don't worry about it. Hard Rock bet lets you bet live all game long. First basket to the buzzer. So you're never too late to find a winner or grab that player prop you head circle.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. A pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, we're joined by our first ever guest. Sorry, our first ever human guest. I don't think I could be in the same room with Shamrock the parrot. I'd be too nervous. That's right. The very funny Will Ferrell joins Rory Scovel and me, Josh Dean,

for an episode dedicated to the many crimes committed by people also named Will Ferrell. They called to his fellow officer for the nippers. What are the nippers? Very good question. No, I was thinking, would that be a good name for like a salad dressing? Simple assault. And it's a play on word, salt? Maybe not.

I say we invest and we see. See. There's only one way to know. This did not amuse the cops. By the way, normally the cops are amused, but this did not abuse the cops. Will even comes clean about some of his own crimes. I didn't get caught. You know why?

If you don't want to be suspected of anything, you whistle as you walk. Listen to crime lists on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self. When you hear the word healing,

what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three P's that I live by. I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts,

You need to move forward and thrive. You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the council. It's your responsibility. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Here With Dr. Jade on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Yeah, I mean, I could certainly make the argument that you came into the NBA at the

perfect time, that they needed a face. It was not a three-ball league. You were, there was no dominant team. So the league was wide open for Julius Irving. And, you know, it's the duality of life. You could look at it and go, man, I wish I was in the NBA. But the truth is, it was overcoached. It didn't have a great TV contract. And there was so much mystery around you. By the time you entered the NBA, you were a star the first day in the NBA. I remember it. I mean, I remember the news stories about the merger. Did you know the merger was coming or did you get a phone call?

Well, when I was negotiating my contract three years earlier, two years earlier, the agent kept saying that, you know, there would be a merger between the two leagues. So that was in 1971 when I signed with the plaintiff's question. It was five years before the merger. They said in two or three years, it would happen. Two years came, three years came, and it didn't happen. Right. It didn't happen.

It happened in year five. And I was a part of the conversation, you know, with the Players Association. I was involved. And then we had our owners group. And those conversations went back and forth, and they were very intense. And it didn't look like there was going to be a merger. and then the ownership of the Nets, which was Warren Bow and the ownership of the Denver Nuggets,

which is called Shire, I believe. They applied for membership into the NBA. So this comes out in our docu-series. This comes out in the story. They shot the whole league. And they were just like, screw everybody else. We're going to get our franchises then because the NBA is into expansion

and they're much better at expanding one or two teams. in a year rather than the whole kitten caboodle and all hell broke loose because we said what about the other teams and what about the jobs and what about the pensions and so on and so what's going to happen I mean it was it was really a scary time and we went back to the drawing board and as it turned out two teams did not make it five teams did yep and so the other way around. And the teams that made it, Denver, San Antonio, were very good immediate.

Denver won their division, if I recall. Yeah, they did. Yeah, they did. They did. Nets were good. Denver was good. San Antonio. Yeah.

Was good. And Indiana. That's right. Indiana was good. George McGinnis. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had gone to Denver by then,

because he was with the six. He started in Indiana, and he was part of the championship teams that they had in Indiana and the ABA. And he came to the six years the year before me. And then two years after he got to Philadelphia, he got traded to Denver for Bobby Jones. That's how I became teammates with Bobby Jones. George, George went to Denver. The, when you got to the NBA, And Portland was good. You were good. The Warriors were good. The Sonics with, you know, they were very good. The Washington Bullets at the time were very good teams.

Lakers are always good, right? Lakers Roe is good. Was there, who was the first NBA player when you merged that you had not played against and you immediately thought, okay, because you were the best ABA player. There was a couple of exhibitions, but you watch on TV or you read about. Who was the first NBA guy you played against and went, sheesh. I think with the Knicks, since I was a New Yorker, and they had Willis Reed and Clyde Frazier. And, you know, I mean, those two would have been Clyde, Clyde and I had the same agent. My agency was Walt Frazier Sports Enterprises run by Irwin-Wingham. So I had seen Clive off the court. I'd been in his Rolls Royce, and we had gone shopping together,

but we had not played on the court against him. And, you know, so he was, he was one of the guys. He played real defense. Yeah, yeah, the ultimate, the ultimate. And the Knicks, you know, they also had Dave DeBuscher. And we played them in exhibition games. And the exhibition games were all very good. I think we beat them.

But, you know, they, always had the excuse our guys aren't in shape yet because, you know, we really take the off season off. And then training campus when we get in shape and get ready for the season, and that's when you see us out of best. And I'm like, every time you step on the court, I'm supposed to see you at your best, you know? Don't make excuses, man.

How much of your artistry was practiced and how much was instinctive, the dunks, the swoop, I mean, a lot of times you can go to Rucker Park or you can go to the park. But some of the stuff I watch feels like it was, I mean, the dunk over Cooper, I'm sure you'd practiced it, but that the ball was loose on the left side, right outside of the coaching box. How much of your game was instinctive and how much was practiced? My answer to that Is the greatest compliment that I've ever received Were from teammates Al Skinner, Henry Bibby, Steve Mix

And they took the time to say, Doc, I had to tell you something I said, what's that? He says, you just play differently from everybody else. And I'm like, what do you mean? The dribble, my dribble left hand, right? But the fundamentals are the fundamentals. You know, you pass, you rebound, you score, you defend.

The fundamentals are fundamental. And they said, no, no, not the way you're doing. And these were my teammates. Yeah. These are my teammates. So I try to get a big head out of it. but I had no way to prove it. You know, we could look at film and we could look at the, you know,

you have these guys now who are the analysts, analytical people, and, you know, each franchise has 10 to 15 of these guys who go through that and then they give reports. And they could see things that a player couldn't see. and they, and obviously that's why they have the job that they have. But my job was, like Iceman always said, my job was to perform. I like to put on a show. Right.

So I get out there on the court and I want to put on the show. And when I did something special, I didn't run down the court and get ready to play defense, you know, not celebrating and banging the chest or jumping on the stands or, you know, falling into the fans. And so when I watch the game now, I'm not all that enthralled with the celebratory part. Right. And I was with, I'm in Vegas now.

I was with George yesterday. And I said, you know how many times you could have looked at one of your opponents after you scored on him and put your hand down like he was just too small to guard you? You know how many times you would have done that, bro? And he said a million, he said a million times, but that wasn't my style. That wasn't our style.

You know, our style was not to degrade people. I mean, we wanted to win and we wanted to beat them. And at the end of the day, I mean, lots of times in the ABA, we went out to dinner with the opponents.

And, you know, we spent time together, and we made friends. And because one thing about the ABA, it was one for all and all for one. That's right. So if anybody got any publicity, you were fighting uphill. People, yeah, we're fighting uphill every day.

And if people got publicity, we would salute it. We wouldn't be haters. And it was a good thing about that time in my life. I mean, that was between age 21 and 26. And if I just could chop that out and created a dash between that time, I would have to say probably the most enjoyable part of my basketball experience. Wow. Is there an ABA player?

One was certainly introduced to me in the documentary that I wasn't aware of, but is there an ABA player that you wish would have transitioned to the NBA and fans could have been given a glimpse of, like a player that didn't do the transition that you look back and go? So Jimmy Jones comes to mind who play with Dallas and lives, here in Vegas. Jimmy Jones was a great player. I mean, I never hear anybody talk about him.

And I speak to him, you know, once every other month or what I view. He's, you know, by being on the board of governors at a Hall of Fame, I tried to get him mentioned in the conversation about former ABA players who were not recognized and a Hall of Fame worthy. Jimmy Jones, Willie Wise, Matt Calvin, you know, those three. Then there's another guard who played for Utah. I can't think of his name right now, and I apologize for that. But yeah, so there's this guy, I mean, it's probably a dozen.

If we go through the rosters who I can pick out, who, you know, I just have a certain feeling about because I know planned against them when I had my career high in, I guess the San Diego conquistadors, they had a player on their team named Warren Jabali. And his name when he came out of college was Warren Armstrong. And he was kind of a militant type guy. He changed his name to Javali. That's right. He's featured in the documentary. Yes.

Whatever. But I scored 63 points. It was a four-over-time game. Ryan Taylor scored 50. Jabali had like 54. And this guy was a militant. He was militant. He is described, I think, accurately as kind of anti-white.

He had felt oppressed in his life as many black basketball players in the country watching the NBA. And he just didn't, he didn't hide it. For the record in the documentary, they don't spend a ton of time on him, but his physique, he looks like an NFL defensive end. He's six foot four, strong as a bull, and loved to play inside. He loved to get into paint, and can nobody do anything with him. He would get into paint, and he would do Warren. So he was special, and he was a tough matchup. I got along with him.

I mean, I kind of get along with everybody, so I didn't have any real issues. And, you know, I had one fight. And I got hit by Maurice Lucas. Well, he hit a few guys. And we became friends after that. Maurice was an enforcer. Like, I could get you on my side because Window Latin was gone. But that's what happened with Window Latin.

That's how we got him. Because Kevin Lockery, he always said, man, this guy, he was playing. for Kentucky. And he says he's so reckless. He's going to hurt Doc. And I can't have that. So we traded Mike Dale for Wendell Ladner and Mike was a really good player. But then we had Wendell and, you know, we won the championship of Wendell in 74. One of the things about the ABA that I didn't know, and they had a lot of footage of it. Because you guys were fighting for your basketball lives and your economy, the fights in the ABA. And the footage in the documentary, I don't know where they got all the footage, but there

are fistfight. And at one point in the documentary, they're like, it was a nightly occurrence, the fights. Yeah. That is, Julius, I didn't know. I had no idea. It was nuts. I caught the second half for that because I wasn't there in the first three years.

Okay. And when I got there, I just heard story. after story and warning after warning. Don't mess with this guy. Don't mess with this guy or whatever. And I was, what do you mean? I'm going, I'm dunking. You know, I'm free.

I couldn't dunk in college, so if he's under the basket, he's going to catch it, and he might not like it. But, you know, you always got to have an importer. And, you know, we had a guy when I was with the Nets, we had Rich Jones and Tim Bassett. And those two guys, they were my enforcers. They wouldn't let anybody touch me. Somebody hit me the wrong way.

It's a little like hockey. One of those two. If Rich didn't get them, then Tim got them. So that was just the way up the world, you know. And enforcers, they probably don't have as many enforcers out there now because, you know, nobody wants to get hurt. That's right. Everybody's rich.

Everybody's rich. And rich guys don't want to get hurt, you know. That's right. The face is the moneymaker. Yeah, exactly. With your poor guy, you know, you didn't get an average. The money didn't, you know, you just swing for the fence. But, yeah. There's, you know, I grew up in the West Coast.

When I went to New York, I visited Rucker Park, which is a legendary place. So, you know, it was one of those things where I had an afternoon after doing my radio show. And so. What did you see? Well, you know, there was a piece. I didn't see some great game. It's a regular, like a Wednesday. So you went there on a Sunday in the summer. No, no, no. But I wanted to go see it for history's sake. I want to go see it. Yeah. So for the uninitiated here, people in New York get it, old heads get it. But Rucker Park was a place you made your name.

Like so if you, there are a playground, Lloyd Daniels, when I used to work in Vegas and cover Tark. You know, Lloyd Daniels. There was old footage of him. talk a little bit about Rucker Park and your introduction to it and how again, no cable TV, ABA. The truth is, Doc, you know, people didn't know who you were. You go and you're putting on a show there. Yeah. Well, so I grew up in Long Island. Yeah. You know, Rucker Park's Manhattan and it's hometown.

It's in Harlem. So I've been to and through Harlem many times. You know, I actually had a job while I was in college delivering books. And I live around Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Long Island. And, you know, I had a card. We have books in the back of the car. We can go to these people's houses. Sometimes the blinds would be open.

And then when they saw you're knocking the door and they had to pay for the book that they ordered, the blinds would go down. It's like nobody's home. So collected was pretty tough. That was a tough job. But I never played in Rucker Park until I signed a pro contract

because it was a pro-summer league. So I signed a pro contract with the Virginia Squires. Charlie Scott is the starter team. Yep. They call them Charlie the Great Scott. And that's where I got my nickname, Julius Dr. J. Irving. Because my friends, they would call me Doc, or they would just call me the doctor. But Dr. Jay was a better fit with Charlie the great Scott, Julius, Dr. J. Irving.

So the Squire started marketing us. So Charlie says, man, I've got to take you to where I play in the summer. And I was like, okay. So, you know, we're in Virginia. We're giving the car. we drive up to New York, takes me this playground, people are all over the place.

And it was very special. I mean, my heart started palpitating. I mean, I'm like, whoa, this is great. And Peter Vessie, who you know, he was coaching the team. Our team was called the West Siders. And so we had some guys from St. John. Billy Schaefer and Billy Paltz and Georgie Bruns and me and Charlie, Ali Taylor,

a few other guys who I can't think of all their names at the time. But, you know, I mean, they were good and some of them played little ABA, some of them played NBA. And some of them didn't play at all. They just were streetball players. Yeah. So, so my. first experience was to come there on a Sunday with Charlie and I was just going to follow him. Whatever his routine was, that's what I was going to do.

And I knew he was going to shoot. So that was part of the routine. Well, that was Charlie Scott's game. Putting out some shots, right? So Charlie, at first he would park his car. And then he took the young man who was out there. And he said, you watch my car. you watch it

and it's all you got to do it made me came like 10 bucks whatever so so you got to take care of the guy watching your car because otherwise after you play you go back out there your car ain't going to be there

or tires are going to be missing or something's going to happen right so take care of the guy come out on the court and Charlie and I like we clicked right away we could I mean he took me in

took me on his wing and you know I mean, I knew he was the man on the team, but I was going to be the man next to the man. And I knew that a couple weeks in, I mean, I didn't know it right in the beginning, but a couple of weeks in when Al Bianchi, who was a great coach, very level player's coach. And, you know, he gave me pretty good responsibility early. And our team, we didn't have a great team. We had Fattie Taylor, Bernie Williams, Doug Moe, Neil Johnson, and Ray Scott.

Ray Scott was the veteran player on our team. So I knew Charlie was going to shoot, and I had a little more of it all-around game. So, okay, he's a shooter. So I'm not the gunner, per se. But there was an opening for a rebounder because I had average 20 rebounds a game in college. you know, this is the pros. Maybe I can't average 20, but I'm going to try, you know. And I got 15, 16, most nights.

And that experience, once again, you know, it wasn't the quote, unquote NBA experience, but I was now a pro. And I was officially a pro because I was getting paid to play. And I'd never been paid to play before. and that was the beginning of the journey with the Virginia Squires. And it was also beginning of learning something because our trainer, we had a trainer there. And we were having a scrimmage and he told Coach,

you take me out of the game. And it's 1971, right? Takes me out of the game. And I come over and I had only been playing a couple of minutes. and he told the coach in front of me, he says, the guys we're playing against out there, they're going to try to hurt him. And he said, I don't want that to happen.

Wow. He said, they're going to try to hurt him. So that was an awakening too. You know, somebody's saying, somebody's going to intentionally try to hurt you because you're better than they are. You know, that was an eye-opener. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers,

and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, no? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you. You get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, we're joined by our first ever guest. Sorry, our first ever human guest. I don't think I could be in the same room with Shamrock the pair. I'd be too nervous. That's right. The very funny Will Ferrell joins Rory Scovel and me, Josh Dean,

for an episode dedicated to the many crimes committed by people also named Will Ferrell. They called to his fellow officer for the nippers. What are the nippers? Very good question. No, I was thinking, would that be a good name for like a salad dressing? Simple assault. And it's a play on word, salt? Maybe not.

I say we invest and we see. There's only one way to know. This did not amuse the cops. By the way, normally the cops are amused, but this did not abuse the cops. Will even comes clean about some of his own crimes. I didn't get caught. You know why? If you don't want to be suspected of anything, you whistle as you walk.

Listen to crime list on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self.

When you hear the word healing, what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three P's that I live by, I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me. From understanding your mental health to doing the work,

we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the council. It's your responsibility. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold

and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Here with Dr. Jade on the IHeart Reheart. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The ABA experience, the fashion was a big deal. They note the afros and the fashion was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah.

And a lot of it, I wondered if some of that was, listen, you know, a lot of young guys. You're all young guys. Young guys like fashion, much more than an old guy like me. But was some of it a way to say, hey, man, this league were stylish. There's art to the ABA. The NBA was overcoached. But you guys had a style. By the way, the media liked the style.

That's why they paid attention to you. A lot of startup leagues, Julius, don't get any attention by, you know, mainstream legacy media. The legacy media paid attention to you. And I wonder if the style and the fashion played into that. Yeah, but now you're talking about, you know, 1970 to 1976. Okay, for me, those were my five years, 71 to 76. And during that time, you know, wearing bell bottoms, wearing afros, and where dashikis, and stuff like that, was very much in fashion.

And, you know, people strove to have an individuality. Yeah. About, you know, their personal lifestyle and even the spouses, you know, the way they dressed. And, you know, when I got married, which was 74, my wife used to say, where are you going? She'd see what I had on. She said, where are you going? Like, I'm going out. She said, well, maybe you want to tweak this a little bit, do this or whatever, you know.

And so I think a lot of the guys had assistance from either their wives or their sisters in terms of creating their style, especially with the hair. Yeah. The hair was, I think, a matter of addressing your heritage. Yeah. You know, we really are an African American. then you're a descendant of an African tribe of some kind. And when you see tribes, you could see it froze. You see, you know, like now it's the braids.

Right. Yeah, and the twists and the turns, whatever. I never had my hair braided. And it was long enough to probably braid, but I always thought that was like a sissy look. But now it's very masculine. and it's prevalent. Before we let you go, your game was so unique and inventive and creative.

When you did get to the NBA, and it was a more structured league, there was that push and pull where to be Julius, you got to let the best guy be Julius. But was there that first year in the NBA, did you feel a little push-pull? stylistically with your game and the NBA rigidity. Absolutely. You did?

Absolutely. And it was really more with myself and my teammates. And we had Daryl Dawkins. We had World Be Free. We had Doug Collins. We had, World Be Free. Yeah, World Be Free. And we had, you know, Dougie Collins and George McGuinness, Cornwell.

and we got to mid-season with that team. And I wouldn't say it was easy. The team had its struggles. But, you know, we had won maybe 80% of our games. By the time we get to mid-season. And then we wanted Billy, that was the second year, it was Billy Cunningham, his first year, where we wanted to.

bring somebody in and change a dynamic of the team. And the first year with Gene Shoot, we didn't have to do that, but with Billy Cunningham, we did. And we bought in Clement Johnson and Reggie Johnson Boys and whatever. And one was big, strong and a husky, and the other was a finesse player. It was a shooter. And both of them great guys. And they just made a seamless transition into what we had going. And unfortunately, some of the guys who were there in their first year, they were no longer there the second year.

Because we'll be free, went to Cleveland, and George ended up going to Denver. Yeah. So, you know, the question once again, was there adjustments? Hell yeah. There were plenty adjustments. And I had gone from the school. wires to the nets. So I had experienced an adjustment, but the adjustment from the nets to the sixes was a much bigger adjustment. It was huge. It was huge. And, you know, the reward was,

hey, this is a business, you know, got a good contract. Let's go. You get paid to play. So, so go and play. Do you think your ABA stats will ever be included in NBA history? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like right now, I would say 99% of the times when I go somewhere or make a public appearance or whatever, they always, you know, mentioned that I'm at the 30,000 point club and I'm a four-time MVP and a two-time playoff MVP and so on and so forth. The basketball community accepts.

So it's a given. basketball community accepts it. And I think, you know, sometimes in television broadcasts, they don't like to go earlier than 1992. It was like when they're doing, three and three. So I noticed that because, you know, I mean, there was no ESPN when played. And, you know, so, you know, ESPN is kind of like the sports network.

Right. other than the cable situations. And so they didn't exist, so they don't have a handle on that. They don't care about it. I care about it. Of course. Soul power. It's on Amazon Prime, legend of the ABA.

It's fascinating. The footage, the archive footage is remarkable. The fights are crazy. Fortunately, you didn't have a ton of them. You had a skirmish or two with Larry Bird, but every, did, except maybe magic. So that doesn't count. That's funny.

I'm going to start using that. That's okay with you. We want everybody but magic, right? Yep. Great speaking with you. Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Absolutely.

And, you know, there's so much more to be told. You know, I'm just telling my version of it. And the fans will really enjoy this story. Oh, it's a great four-part series. For all you documentary fans, sports or non-sports, fashion style, the merger, the, I mean, the race. Behind the scenes, there's all the behind the scenes stuff too. Oh, it's unbelievable. You know, with the recruitment of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and George Miking and all that stuff, it's good stuff.

Thanks, Julius. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. So a little non-Julius Irving news, Drew Dolman, the 27-year-old Center, who I believe played every snap for the Bears last year, suddenly retired. Smart guy, Stanford guy, you know, had made his money and just decided it is a, listen, man, playing center in the NFL is a daunting physical experience. You're dealing usually with somebody about 30 pounds heavier, you know, nose tackles,

the Jalen Carter's are an experience like none other on a football field going mono-e-mono. Now, Joe Tuny and Jonah Jackson at the guard positions, and the bears are above average on the O-line as a unit. And it's not a bad center draft in the NFL. It's a good O-line year in the NFL, and the Bears have a first, a second, a third, a fourth, a fifth, and a couple seventh rounders. So they'll obviously furnish this draft's going to be all. all defensive players and probably a center now. I'd mentioned before they could go all defense during their draft. They'll obviously somewhere in one of those picks.

There's not a first round center, but it's a good center draft. Not a great wide receiver tight end or running back draft. Good tackle, good center draft, good edge rusher draft. But Dolman's one of those guys. Listen, players make more money. We've had a couple of Stanford guys retire early. You know, players, I mean, Andrew Luck retired early, Stanford. Drew Dolman retiring early, Stanford.

Years ago, the San Francisco 49ers had an interior offensive lineman. Retire early. Chris Borland, Wisconsin Badger, 49ers retired early. You know, offensive linemen, quarterbacks, you know. offensive linemen are in the trenches. Think about it. No unit in the NFL is more physically taxing, yet gets less credit than offensive line.

You know, pass rushers, D-Linman, it's all anybody talks about during the broadcast. They get the big money. Left tackles get money, but interior linemen rarely do. And, you know, Drew Dahlman, he still has, you know, physically he's still in a good space. So it happens. Caleb Williams went to Twitter and had a sad emoji Hulk. It is a loss. It's the first thing Ben Johnson addressed was the Interior O line. It comes as a shock.

But I'm always going to defend guys who retire early, especially guys in the trenches. I remember having a conversation years ago with Ed Cunningham, who played at the University of Washington for that national championship team. and played for the Arizona Cardinals. His career was about 10 years. And he retired and he was still in physically good shape. And he just talked about what playing center, because he was an undersized center, kind of a cerebral academic center, but undersized, what it did to your shoulders and your hands, and that it's a really tough position to play. I mean, you age fast on the interior offensive line. And so, you, you. You know, I grew up. There was a center name Jim Otto who played forever for the Raiders.

And pretty sad, Mike Webster for the Pittsburgh Steelers. And in the history of the NFL, those two guys had some post-football trauma they dealt with, which has been well chronicled. And I understand in this great game, players retiring earlier, especially those who are playing in the most daunting punitive positions. And so I wish Drew Dalman the best, you know, between Atlanta and the Bears, it's a career to be proud of. But, you know, the Bears are going to have to address it. The good news is the offense is stacked. Ben Johnson has a great sense of offensive personnel especially.

And I think they'll figure it out. but it comes as a shock. And you're seeing not every football player lives and breathes for the sport. You know, a lot of them love it. It's a journey. They ascend and they reach a point physically where they don't want to be wobbling with their kids. You know, they don't want to have a bad back and, you know, by the seventh shoulder surgery, I've told the story before.

I read a story a couple years ago in Travis Kelsey and he's already had 10 surgeries. was aware of like one. So I'm always going to defend an athlete, a professional football player who retires early. Tip of the cap to Drew Dahlman, and now the bears need to go to work. Shoot your shot. Get paid double only on Hard Rock Bet. Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal way to bet the NBA, teams, players, points, and more. He shoots. He scores. And when you sign up for Hard Rock bet, your bets paid double winnings. Don't just count the basket. Count it twice. He's on fire now. Yes, new customers get paid double on your first. First 10 bets. Try hard rock bet today.

Max bet of $50 per bet. Offered by the Seminole tribe of Florida must be 21 plus and physically present in Florida to wager. Terms and conditions apply. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, please call 1-833 Playwise. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports.

And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it. just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven,

Mark keep coming to you. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio. Nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7. Hey, head over to iHeart.com.

Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free right now. Awesome health and wellness tips 24 hours a day. seven days a week. Remember, stick to the fight. When your heart is hit, it's when things seem worst that you must not quit. Don't quit.

Body by Jake Radio, where hope meets momentum. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day. IHeart Radio. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.