The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Draymond Green on Celtics Matchup, Steph Legacy, KD Exit, Defending Luka

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Colin explains how KD and Kyrie’s bad career decisions are on full display in the Finals (3:00). Then, 3-time NBA champion - and host of The Draymond Green Show - Draymond Green and Colin discuss the Celtics’ Game 7 ECF win over the Heat (9:00), how the Warriors are preparing for Boston this week (11:00), his feelings about KD’s decision to leave for Brooklyn (21:00), what Steph Curry critics don’t understand about his greatness (27:00), how they were able to wear down Luka Doncic in the Western Conference Finals (32:00), who influenced his game the most growing up (38:00), what jumped out about the Celtics in their regular season matchups (40:00). Finally, Draymond puts Colin on the hot seat over an old Warriors take that didn’t age particularly well (46:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #DraymondSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Get started now. Sign up promo code Colin so they know we and I sent you. The Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandall Sportsbook. Hi, everybody, and welcome in to the Tuesday morning podcast. The great, soon-to-be Hall of Famer, Draymond Green, will be joining us. My first ever interview with Draymond Green. His first ever interview interviewing me. So let's be honest about this.

It's a big day for both of us. I want to talk about a former teammate of Draymond Green, Kevin Durant. And I'm sure it isn't lost on any of you that these finals are Kevin Durant's former team that he bailed on, the Warriors, against Kyrie Irving's former team he wanted out of the Celtics. Burn. I think KD is a cautionary tale of something that men seek and often to their peril, and that is power. Bill Belichick had so much power in New England.

I was told that in January, starting about six years ago, Belichick would call off the scouting department and tell them, I'll take the draft from here. Well, what followed was four or five straight egregiously bad drafts. Belichick acknowledged that he was going to give more sets of eyes power in the draft room in 2021. And they had their best draft in five or six years. this year again, Belichick took it over, and the Patriots had what we can call it best an odd draft. Robert Kraft acknowledged this not long ago saying, hey, we had a really great 2021 draft. It made up for the previous four drafts.

This happens in movies. Martin Scorsese is a legendary director, but he's become so all-powerful that when he made the Irishman, it was three and a half hours long. I really liked the movie, but I didn't love the movie because when a movie is too long to watch even on a plane, probably should cut out 40 minutes. Garth Brooks had this in the 90s when he was not only a sensation, he was the most powerful person arguably in music, not just country music. And when he came up with the idea to create a new character called Chris Gaines, a moody pop star,

and make a movie about him. He had so much power, nobody raised their hand in the room and went, Garth. This is a terrible idea. Of course it was. It flopped. The movie was never made. And I think you see this time and time again, that men often seek power or become so successful, people don't challenge them. And what you get any time you're making decisions in an echo chamber is that you're

a higher percentage of poor decisions. And this is really Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant, nobody checked him when he said, I want to leave the best coach I've ever had, the best culture I've ever had, the best teammate Steph Curry I've ever had. Nobody checked him. His agent, Rich Climman, didn't check him. His shoe company apparently didn't push back. The feeling was, hey, Kevin Durant, he's going to take a big leap here, leave all that

greatness and go to the largely dysfunctional Brooklyn Nets with overwhelmingly dysfunctional Kyrie Irving. Nobody raised their hand and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, you're not going to do that. We're not going to like you do that. Whether it's Belichick drafting, Martin Scorsese, movie making, Garth Brooks, creating a fictional character. Power corrupts. And can you imagine, I've used this example before. If Patrick Mahomes woke up tomorrow morning and said, I'm going to go play for the Jets because my best friend's going to go play for him, the NFL media would clobber him. His agent would, his shoe company. But there's very few move the needle stars in the NBA, maybe four. And so media wants access to not only that player, but his agent and his shoe company.

And you lose it by being critical. See, the NFL does. doesn't have that as good as Josh Allen is or Lamar Jackson is or Justin Herbert is or Patrick Mahomes is. I mean, Tom Brady could retire tomorrow. It's not going to hurt the ratings at all. Aaron Rogers could leave tomorrow. It's not going to hurt the ratings. But if Durant leaves and Steph leaves and a handful of other people leave, they have so much power in the NBA. People cower and are unwilling to push back.

Kevin Durant had so much power that nobody. said to him, Kevin, not only is this going to be a huge mistake, but the contract you're signing with Brooklyn, you won't be able to get out of. And so here sits Kevin Durant today. Another first round exit, two and three years, humiliated, watching Steph Curry and the Warriors heavily favored against the Celtics. And I can assure you he's rooting for the Celtics. And I can assure you Kyrie Irving is rooting for the Warriors. So the two guys that now play together are rooting against each other's interests. Surround yourself with people, not necessarily negative people, honest people, people who are

authentic, people that can say, hey, I want you to think about this, sleep on it. I don't know if that's a great decision for your career. Belichick, Garth Brooks, Martin Scorsese, Kevin Durant, doesn't matter how brilliant you are. You need people willing to be honest with you. A three-time champ, a four-time All-Star, four-time All-defensive first team, defensive player of the year about five years ago. The Draymond Green Show is also the best sports podcast in the world. And it happens to be on the volume. That's right.

I said it. I'm good with that. So let's start when you had a practice today. So you're just sitting around waiting for the winner. I, like you thought Boston's Boston's going to win this game. I was shocked. I'm not shocked much, Raymond.

I've been doing this 25 years. Miami winning in Boston Friday. I can't get my break. What, you watched it? What the hell happened? I thought there was no chance. Obviously, Jimmy Butler had one of those Jimmy Butler type games that we all now know that he's capable of.

And we didn't just figure that out with that game. We'd been new Jim was capable of that. However, those two games prior to that, he were playing terrible. And regardless of whether it was the injuries or whatnot, I'm going to give Jimmy Butler his credit. I definitely think the injury has something to do with those two games before. But even in saying that, I didn't see a 49-point game. And the reality is, if he didn't get 49, they didn't have a chance at winning. He had 35 last night.

No chance at winning. But I mean, I was extremely shocked that they were able to go in without Tyler Hero and go into Boston and win game six. I thought there was no chance. So you were presuming. And despite what Eudanus Haslam, a guy I love said, I think most of the league, most players in the league looked at like, listen, man, you got Jimmy Butler's got knee inflammation. Tyler's out. Bam is a great defensive player. He can't be your number two score, especially with Williams, who's a really effective defensive player on him.

So you did a practice today. What, where do you, are you already attacking them? Was today's practice more about inserting Peyton, Otto, Iggy back into your game? Or was it looking at the Celtics and creating a game plan today? For us today, it was just more about ourselves. Like, we got up and down. We watched some clips on our offense, but we didn't necessarily watch much or anything on the Celtics. We'll start doing that prep tomorrow.

But after the weekend, having a couple days off and then getting some individual workouts in, we just wanted to get in practice and kind of have a blowout session. So we played three, six-minute quarters just to get up and down the court and start working on getting your rhythm back after a few days off on. or a couple of days off on the weekend. And so our focus today wasn't them at all. Now, I know our coaching staff has been watching them all weekend and kind of preparing for this,

but our focus today was simply just us, incorporating offensive plays that we know we're going to want to use against their switching defense. You know, they have a ton of length. So we just really wanted to incorporate a bunch of stuff on our offense and the things that we're going to do and more so focused on ourselves today, rather than anything going to Boston Celtics.

One of the things that I kind of find fascinating about the Warriors culture is that old players, young players buy in, and veteran players don't wear each other out. I mean, you go Shaq Kobe, you can go to the Heedles. It's hard. A lot of focus, a lot of media, and you guys just don't wear each other out. I mean, that's historically.

That's rare. And then you get young players to buy in. And you're coached hard. I mean, Kerr, I know Steve. I covered Steve. Steve doesn't coach light. So as I watch Kvon Looney and I'm like, I didn't know he was that good of a rebounder. Like I watch his development and I'm like, I mean, is that just hard coaching?

Because Draymond, he is a significantly better player today than a year ago. That's what it feels like to me. Did you see the growth? Did you predict the growth? I've 100% seen the growth. I can't say I predicted this growth because the reality is if you go back, it's funny, I was showing a couple of friends of mine

just a few days ago. I was showing them Kavon Looney's highlight clips from high school because they were like, man, Lou is playing so much better and he's finishing now. And I was telling them, I said, and they were just asking questions about Loon, and I was telling them, I said, you know what's crazy?

It's the player that he is today and that he's become. I have such a large amount of appreciation for him because what he's done in these playoffs, and really all year, but especially these playoffs, everybody's watching, we know what he's done. And what he's done is totally reinventing himself from the player that he was coming out of high school. Now, I ended up showing the high school clips.

He's coming down off the triple pull up three, you know, fake this way, go back that way. Floater's like he's doing all of that. And when Kavanaugh-Luney was coming out of high school, people were comparing him to Kevin Durant. Now, I always get mad when people just compare tall, skinny guys to Kevin Durant because that's what everyone wants to do. They look at a physique. They say, oh, man, that guy's tall and skinny. He can handle the ball. Boom, that's Kevin Durant.

And I think it is the absolute worst thing that people can do in basketball. Like, you just don't, you don't just compare people to Kevin Durant because of stature. Because the reality is, is Kevin Durant is arguably the most talented and skilled basketball player that we've ever seen in NBA history. We have not seen someone seven feet, dribbles the ball like a point guard, shoots the ball like a two guard, post up like a three, four man, can protect the rim like a five. We've never seen this before. It's like if you went into a lab and they said, hey, you can create a player. You're going to create a, I used to do this on the way so I can speak from experience. You're going to create a player that's Kevin Durant.

You're going to go create a guy that's 16 to 7 feet somewhere and they can dribble shoot past. That's what you're going to create on NBA 2K. I used to do it as a kid. It was Kevin Durant. And people used to always compare him to Kevin Durant. So I was showing them the player that he was before. and who he has become. And I just have an appreciation for him

and the growth that he's had. You're talking to a guy who came in, and the moment he stepped foot in the NBA, he had two hip surgeries, not one, not a wrist surgery, not, you know, he messed his shoulder up. He had two hip surgeries. Now, hip surgeries are brutal.

Number one, for those that don't know, all of your nerves, all of that stuff is forming at your hip surgery. whether it's coming from the bottom of your body or your lower body or your upper body, they're all forming at your hips. So just right there alone with the nerves and all of the things that you have going on, your hips is brutal. And so I can't say I expected this and the level that he's playing at. But what I can say is he is by far the most professional guy that I have ever been around in my career from day one of him walking in here.

He has worked like a veteran, not late for anything, puts in all the extra work, whether it's in the wait room, whether it's on the court. He has done that since day one. And in my life, I've seen hard work always fail. So to say that I thought he'd be at this level, I'd be totally lying to you. But to say that I'm surprised that he's spent at this level, I'm not because I've watched him put the work in over and over and over again and yet have seen him catch tough breaks. and it's finally great to see the brakes are falling his way because he's worked his ass off for.

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Gambling problem, 1-800-800 next step or text next step to 5334-2-2-A-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-E-G or visit fand-G or visit Fand-Duel. com slash RG in Colorado, Indiana, Jersey, and Virginia, 18777-7-0-1-1-1-7-1-1-7-1-1-7-1-1-7-1-1-1-7-1-1-1-1-6-9 in New York, 10. Redline, 1-800-89-9-7-8-9 Tennessee, visit 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

You know, it's, and I said this when Katie left. I said, I think he's making a huge mistake. I said, you know how lucky you are to have Hall of Fame teammate, to Hall of Fame culture, and people that are actively rooting for you? got done reading three rings on the Kobe shack, Phil Jackson, Lakers. Dremont, it was just a shit show, man. It was brutal. I mean, you read it, and it's like, this is brutal.

When you, and you may be sensitive to talk about this, but when you watch Katie now, and he's got some teammates that aren't always there for him, and I think, oh, bro, boy, you left, you left Rodeo drive a basketball, man. This is the highest end. This is the culture. the brains. Do you look at him now and what do you see and what do you think? Or do you not care? I care. I 100% care because that's my brother and I always want to see him do well. Whether that's here, whether that's in Brooklyn, whether he decides he wants to go play for

Barcelona next year in Euro League. I always want to see him do well because that bond, that relationship is it's always going to go much further than. And I can play basketball and that he can play basketball. So I always want to see him do well. So I do care. As far as caring if he's on our team or not, I can't care because that's not. That's not up to me. That's not up to me from the team standpoint.

That's not up to me from Kevin's standpoint. What I will say is when he decided that he was going to leave, I thought it was a mistake. And not for the reason that everyone else thinks it's a mistake. By the way, I thought it was a mistake because I know Kevin. And what Kevin likes to do in his life, the number one thing in Kevin's life. And that's not the case for most people, including NBA guys, by the way. Like basketball is the most important thing to me in my life. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and act like it is.

it's not the most important thing in my life. It is extremely important, but it's not the most important thing in my life. Basketball is 100% the most important thing in Kevin's life. It is the thing that he cares about himself more than anything in the world. And when Kevin was here, the reason I thought Kevin was making a mistake

because I felt like when Kevin was here, what he was allowed to do was to simply just go play basketball, which is what Kevin loves to do. And so it wasn't that he was going to play with Kyrie. It wasn't that, you know, everyone's like, oh, Kyrie isn't there. It wasn't any of that. Or it wasn't like, oh, man, you're winning championships.

It was more so for me from a life standpoint, because, again, I care about the person. I don't give the damn about the basketball player. He's a great basketball player. But I care about the person. and I just knew what makes him happy in his life is being able to simply go play basketball. And so that's where the mistake was made for me.

It's not that he wasn't going to go win because, again, it's not proven that they're still not going to win. It takes time to build these things up. And I know everyone thinks, oh, man, you put this team together and you're supposed to win in one or two years. And the reality is,

we all hope that it goes that way. But, I mean, look at this Boston Celtics team. for every year for the last four years, they've saved Jaylor Brown and Jason can't play together, and they figured it out. It takes time to build these things. And so I don't look at their whole thing with the Brooklyn Nets and say, that's a failure.

Like, I don't know if that's a failure. That's not written. But whether that fails or succeeds, that wasn't the mistake to me. The mistake for me was simply from a life standpoint and what makes you happy. What makes you happy? I know you.

You're my brother. What makes you happy is you're simply going to play basketball. And so that's where the mistake was made to me. It wasn't about winning championships or anything like that. When you see, I said this today on the show. I said, I'm not really an awards guy. Like I kind of believe in broadcasting. I know the guys or the women that are good.

And I know the ones that are average. And awards isn't going to change my mind. And to me, Steph is one of the greatest players I've ever seen. one of the reasons I hold him in such high regard is that he doesn't care if he's finals MVP. It doesn't appear to me. I said, there's a lot of guys in this league that care about that. And I said, but that's why Kevin Durant worked. That's why everybody works.

That's why he gets hurt. You know, Jordan Poole starts. He can come off the bench. I'm like, that's the essence of Steph. It's not a weakness. When you hear opinion shows and people in my space say that he needs an MVP in the finals to validate it, is it ridiculous? Do you not hear it? What do you make of that?

What I make of it calling is that people need shiny objects for themselves to be able to have, they need those shiny objects for them to be able to analyze what's going on. They can't see what you just said, which is Steph, Steph could definitely have finals MVP's because Steph has the ball. Like Steph, now, Steph is coming down to court and he's calling sets. And he's like, oh, we got a mismatch with Kevin Durant. We're going to get Kevin Durant the ball every single time. He can hijack the game and no one's going to say a word. If if Steph Curry comes down and he calls for a pick and roll every play,

nobody's going to say a word, including Kevin Durant, by the way. Nobody's going to say anything. That's not who he is. That's not what he does. And so when you watch a game and Kevin Durant was absolutely incredible in those finals runs, as you know, you watched it, we all watched it. Kevin Durant was absolutely insane. Steph Curry got double team probably seven times the amount that KD did.

in a given series. So when you watch those games and you say, ah, his numbers could be a little down. He's facing a double team. And by the way, this isn't a double team from Orlando, imagine this is a double team from a team that's playing in the finals, which if you're in the finals,

you're going to have a good defense. These are real double teams. This ain't some team that's throwing together a game playing the night before and they're rolling their players out there that can't play half dead. This isn't that. Right.

This is elite teams throwing elite defenders at guys. And yet the guy who still averages, I'm not sure what his finals average is, but I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollars nor for 23 points. Yeah. And so the games and the impact that he has on the game, if you don't understand basketball and thoroughly understand, not understand a stat sheet. If you don't understand basketball, which most people don't in your space,

then yeah, you're going to come out and you're going to say, he needs to validate that by finals MVP because that's all you can see. You then go and you say, oh, man, this guy won finals MVP. That must be the guy who's doing X, Y, and Z. But if you can analyze the game and see, that's when I say new media, that's where I feel like this space is going to rock. No one analyzes the game anymore. That's a lost skill.

No one does that. And if you have the potential or if you're capable of analyzing a game, then under no circumstances are you going to say Steph Curry need a finals MVP to validate who he is. Now, in saying all of that, when I look at Steph Curry, he is not made up of exactly what you said. He doesn't need those things to feel like Steph Curry. But as you do know, we live in a social media day and age where you see everything, you hear everything, and it's 24-7. You open your phone up, you see it.

So now with Steph, does he feel like he need to win a finals MVP? It's not something he's ever said, but I would go out on the limb and say, I 100% think he does. Not that he feels like that from the inside, but I have. I feel like he's been made to feel that way. Oh, man, he doesn't have this. He doesn't have that. This person not validated him.

That person not validated. And ultimately, it doesn't bring out the worse of him because he doesn't hijack games and go start trying to do that. And so it doesn't bring out the worst. But he's a competitor. He's an extreme competitor. You don't become that great if you're not. And so I think the competitor in him may feel like,

yes, I definitely need to do that because X, Y, and Z all. said that and I want to prove them wrong. Not necessarily that I need this final Z MVP to validate myself. Right. He knows who he is. And so I think the pressure of the media, all the noise around will 100% make you feel that way if you have a competitive spirit in you, which I know he does. Yeah.

You know, as I watch the Maverick series, and I know that's in the rear view mirror, but much like the Celtics, you know, they conference final experience, which you have a ton of and Steph and Clay and Kerr. The Celtics have a little. The Mavericks didn't have any. When you were, and I had said before the series, I said, Golden State is going to win this and they're going to win it because they're going to make Luca less efficient. They're going to throw Andrew at him. And they're going to throw Dre, maybe Cumminga. And I said, you're not going to shoot 48%.

He's going to shoot like 42%. And that'll just be enough. and also because your older players, you guys can do four different defensive alignments on four trips down the floor. A lot of teams can't do that. So you guys are, it's like a Belichick defense. You guys are throwing shit at guys every time down the court.

And that's just a lot as the game's pace is very fast. But did you feel at any point, all you veterans around Luca, did you sense the frustration, the body language like, the kid, the kid is learning American conference finals level sort of like as i watched it i watched his body language and i was like oh this is conference finals basketball this is lesson time this is that's what it felt like to me as a consumer absolutely um now what i will say is this and i'll never forget this because i remember how

upset people got when he said it but i remember when lucca first came into the league and he made a statement where he said it was easy it's easier to score in the NBA than it was for him in Europe. I remember he made that statement. He's proven, actually, that that is true with how he's played since he made that statement. But I also remember how upset everyone got when he made that statement. Like, who does this guy think he is? And blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is the NBA. And when he said it, I immediately was like, that makes sense. I know what he mean. I mean, I've had the opportunity and the honor of competing in two Olympics. And if you ever play Feeba basketball, I mean, those guys are still playing Rudy Gaubert

and are center of his size that moves like him together. And they just can sit in the paint. And you can't get there. You can't get to the rim. They got two big logs just standing there. That is the, that's the Fibble way of basketball. We saw some of that this summer when we, when we, obviously, we went on when the gold medal. I said all of that to say.

For me personally, I have to read body language. Like, that's one of my roles. That's how I can feed off of, you know, a guy's frustration, or that's how I can get into someone's head or, you know, whatever I need to do on my end to help my team. I have to understand and pay attention to body language. Because I have to be able to go back to Andrew Wiggins and say, hey, Witt, you know, and there was one game, I think it was game two.

And Wiggs, we had a couple of possessions. And Wigs, they were up in game two. And then we made that run there in the second quarter. And he had a couple of turnovers in a row. And he came down and drove. And Wiggs was bumping, pumping him. And Wigs had his arms up. And then Lucas faded back and he was looking for the pass.

There was no pass there. He turned back to shoot it. And Wiggs reached down and filed him. And I told Wiggs, I said he had two turnovers in a row, a missed shot before that missed shot, then two turnovers in a row. And now this possession, you were about to break him. If he missed that shot or turned that ball over, you were about to break him.

You just bailed him out with that foul. Now he's about to go get two free throws. You have to break that rhythm up again because those two free throws are going to help him find this rhythm. And do you totally break a player like Luca Donchish? No, you never break a guy like that. But you could 100% sense the frustration. Now, here's who you break.

If you can semi-break him. If you can semi-break him, you break all the other guys because they don't know where to turn if they can't turn and look at him and see him with his bravado, him with his confidence coming down, knowing these guys can't stop me. But I don't even want the shot right now.

I want a shot for Jay LaBronso. So let me get a shot for Jay LaBronston. that's who all those guys look to for their confidence. And so not necessarily that you're going to break him and take him out of the game, you're never going to do that. But if you can shake him a little bit, you really shake the rest of the guys. And so we definitely saw the frustration.

And obviously against him, we knew you're not going to lock him down. It was a lot like James Hart. We knew, hey, man, this guy may come out. He may have a great first quarter. He may come out. He may have a great second quarter. But over the course of 48 minutes, if we can just keep throwing bodies at him and wear him down,

by the time we get to the fourth quarter, those legs are going to be gone. And what we ended up seeing is over the case of 48 minutes, if you just continue to throw bodies at him, defend without foul and try not to give up easy things, that a couple times in that series it got to that third quarter and he was a little gas. And that's kind of what you want to do against a guy like that

over the course of 48 minutes. You want to wear him down. And I think we were able to do a good job with that in large part due to Andrew's constant ball pressure, picking him up 94 feet away from the basket each time he brought the ball up. And you can really, really, really sense the frustration throughout the series. Everybody's got influences, quarterbacks, talk show hosts. I've never heard you mention this. And I apologize if you have your style of play and where you grew up. Who was your primary influence?

My style of playing where I grew up, my primary influence for me was my uncle, my uncle Benny. He taught me the game of basketball, and he did it in a way. It's funny because a couple years ago, we were all sitting together with my family, and he said, man, I really feel good about the things that I taught you all. He said, the one thing I never taught you on is one-on-one scoring. He said, I never taught you all that. But everything else, I know for certain I taught y'all. But I never taught y'all one-on-one scoring. He said, if there's one regret I have when I look back,

is that I should have taught a little bit more of that. Not that I should have taught less of anything else, but I should have taught y'all a little bit more of just one-on-one scoring and attacking. I said all of that to say. That is the person who taught me basketball. That is the person who taught me helps out of defense. That is the person who taught me defensive principles,

standing between your man and the ball. And like all the cliche things that you're taught on the defensive end that everyone moves on in the course of their careers and then tend to ignore, those same principles that he taught me then are the same principles that are used today. Now, you know, in elementary school, it may be you don't let someone drive baseline and you make them drive middle, right?

than in the NBA, it's no middle close out. Like, yeah, you get little tweaks here and there. But the fundamentals of defense, my uncle taught me that. The fundamental of reading an offensive play and reading how a defense is guarding you and understanding the tendencies of the guys you're playing with and where to get them the ball and how to get them the ball and put them in position,

my uncle taught me a lot of that. Now, I was then blessed to have great coaches, Coach Dawkins, Coach Speedy, obviously Coachizo along my path but my uncle is the person who laid the foundation for me who taught me how to play good basketball. It was never just row the balls out and hey guys y'all go play you know and hey you know all right it's

practice time you roll it's pickup night no we for the first two weeks of the season we wouldn't touch a basketball and so that's who laid the foundation for me me and the player that I've become. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark. Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't want to create bullet and board material five minutes left. So you haven't jumped into the game plan on the Celtics, but you've played them before. It's a very good defensive team. Every player that starts from them got to vote for all defense. You guys were third. They were first.

I think you guys are about as versatile as Boston, maybe more so, with what? much more experience. If I said to you, give me one memory this year of the earlier games against the Celtics. If you're head on the pillow, go into bed, you're thinking about the Celtics, what comes to mind? What comes to mind for me is in that second game that we played, I remember the game like it was yesterday. I think it was my second game back from my back injury. And what jumps out at me is the way Robert Williams erases me. mistakes. You know, so they're this great defensive team. 100%. If anyone agrees, it's me. I love

defense. I love to watch it. And so I really enjoy watching their team because they're a damn good defensive team. But I think what people don't realize is, is how many mistakes that Robert Williams covers up for and how many mistakes that Marcus Smart covers up for. Now, Robert Williams covers up for. Now, Robert Williams covers up the mistakes at the rim. He's erasing shots left and right. Jordan Poole had one where he cut down the lane, didn't even know he was open and I dropped it down the lane. By the time he turned to lay it up,

Robert Williams came from the corner. No, he came from the opposite wing and blocked his shot. It was nowhere in the play. He had a couple more plays like that in that game. And so Marcus Smart covers up mistakes beneath the room. You know, he covers up, he mucks up a lot of stuff. He gets gritty and gets into the ball and throw your timing on your ball screens off. And then they, and, you know, most defenses has one guy that covers up mistakes.

They uniquely have two, and they play two totally different positions. You have one covering up on the floor mistakes. And then you have one covering mistakes at the rim. And I think that is what really makes their defense special. And then you have Al Horfell who just know everywhere to be. He knows what you're trying to. Colin, Al Horford knows what you're trying to do. He knows what I'm trying to do.

And so when you add those ingredients along with Jason's length, along with Jaylor's length, and those other ingredients around that, you have yourself an absolutely incredible defense. So that's the one thing that truly jumps out at me is how they have multiple guys that can cover mistakes for other guys. And that makes for a great defense. Okay. You have 150 tech.

fouls and most of them I think have been by design sometimes to motivate your team. By the way, I covered Rashid Wallace, so you ain't close to that. He got double. I covered him in Portland. He had a 40 game stretch where I think he had 30. Okay. So there's five active players that have more than you. I'm just going to give you to Marcus Cousins because I know you would have guessed that one.

Absolutely. There's four guys left. guess one for Russell Westbrook yeah yes one more who has more

you know who's he's very sneaky with it and I don't think he has more but I would love to know his count and that's Paul George he's not there I don't think he has more than me

but he's PG sneaky is quite a bit of text I'll throw you one I would not have guessed this. Carmelo Anthony has 193. Ah, I could definitely see Mel getting text. Oh, for sure.

Ah, I'm not sure how I missed that one. Mel will be talking, I mean, obviously, Melo has gotten, you know, he's in Europe, 19 now, he's toned it down a bit. But Melo be talking crazy to referees. Like, I would never forget this game. We were playing in the guard. And if I'm not mistaken,

actually, I think it's the same game where Steph shimmy passed me and I was standing there like this. That was the game. He had 54 in the guard, if I'm not mistaken. And I'm standing there like this after the three and he shimmy passed me. I think it was the same as that game.

But Mello, I would never forget this. He got the ball. I was guarding him. He got the ball. And he, like, mid-posts, caught it, put his head down, boom into my chest. tried to lay it up and I held my ground and he missed it.

And he turned to the ref. Call the motherfucking fire. I'm like, whoa. So now we come back down. Mello, being who Mello is, he goes to the same exact spot, gets the ball, this is the very next play, and does the same exact move. Same exact move creates the same exact contact.

And he gets the file. He's like, yeah, motherfucker. God damn it. And then he walks, he walks on to the free throw line. Now, he didn't get a tech in that instance, but that's kind of a microcosm of who Mello is and how he went about or goes about his business on the court. And then you add in that all it takes us for a guy to say one word to Mello

and he's not stopping. So then you add in that side of things where he talking to guys and going that guys and get text on that side. So I can't, I can't necessarily say that I'm shocked by Mello having 193 because I've, I've seen Mello say some crazy shit on the court. So I'm not shocked by that one. But I'm, I'm actually pretty upset that I didn't guess.

It's five o'clock. That's your limit. We got to go. We do have to go. But before we go. What? Because I, I bought an, I bought an extra couple minutes. because I know this

I've been looking forward to this since I signed with the blog for the Draymond Green show the one thing I asked them is I said am I going to be on am I going to be able to go on college podcast because I've always wanted so I've watched it for years

I've watched you for years and so I'm like I've always wanted to come on here so we're not about to rush out of this one I have a question for you sure about a year ago maybe two, two years ago, you said, Steph Curry, if he wants to see another NBA finals, ever playing the NBA Finals again,

he has to leave Golden State to do that. Here's my question. What was it for you that made you think at any point if Clay's healthy, I'm healthy, and steps healthy all at the same time, that we couldn't do it again just like we did it before. Because I just want to know this whole notion is like,

once Kevin left, the whole world wrote us off. Like, oh, that is the end as if we didn't do it before. So I just want to know the thinking behind. Help me understand that, Kyle. All right. So this is a big brain. There's a lot of stuff moving in there. So in a cap league, I think my takeaway,

and I do three hours a day. I don't know where I was then. But my sense was, Steph had some injuries, Clay was hurt again, Draymond. It's easier to remain a good offensive player in the league than a great defensive player because defense is much harder.

There's going to be cap issues. You're paying all of them. A couple of the draft picks were, this was like before we knew Jordan Poole was going to work. And my takeaway is injuries, really expensive. I don't think it's going to work. And the West is getting better.

Remember, at that time, I think Paul had come in, Kauai had come in, LeBron had come in, AD. And I'm thinking two things in sports that are bad, expensive and old. And so I thought, yes, time to bail. Now, of course, history has proved that I was an idiot. But in that moment, I thought I was Einstein. I thought I was really onto something. But, man, you talk three hours a day.

You know what it's like? That's my version of a four turnover game. I just didn't have it. I can respect that. I can respect. You know, honestly, honestly, though, Colin is I went, number one, three hours a day is insane. I was speaking to someone. They're like, what you want to do when you're done?

I'm like, yeah, I want to do some of this. And they're like, yo, you know, Colin those guys, they do three hours. I'm like, I'm not sure I can quite do three hours a day. That's absolutely incredible. But you as Stephen A's, I just don't understand how y'all can focus on sports that long, be as precise and potent as you guys are. So kudos, I take my hat off to y'all for that. It's absolutely incredible.

But where I will cut you a little slack is here. Most people thought we were older than we are. Like, I think we started winning at such a young age. Like, I won my first championship. Our first championship, Clay and I were 25. Right. And so, and then we go to five straight finals. So from 25 to 30, we're in the NBA finals.

30 isn't old. But when you see guys for five years straight at the highest level, it's going to give you this mindset and these thoughts of that we are older than we really are, than we truly are. And I think that's what happened with a lot of people. It's like, oh, there's old. There is. And it's like most guys in the league are somewhere around our age.

You know, you obviously have a bunch of young guys. But like they say from what, 28 to 33 is your prime? And it's like, oh, man, those guys are done because they're old. And so I get it because I actually had that problem in college where my first two years I went to the final four. And then the next two years I'm playing college basketball. Everybody like, man, you still in college? And I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm only a junior. I still have a couple more years left.

And so I do think some of that was definitely a product of so much winning and a short amount of time. But on the flip side of that, and I'll be 100% honest with you, I haven't told anyone this. As much as I believe we would be good again, I wasn't, I can't say that I was so certain that with the way our roster had turned over, that we would win a championship again because like you said,

we had myself, we had stuff, we had Clay. But the roster turned, like if you look at some of those teams, if you look at some of those lineups that I was out there with in the year we won 15 games,

I'd be a fool and a liar and full of shit, which I try to part myself on not being. If I told you in that moment, I'm still like, yeah, we're going to compete for championships. Like, we can. I mean, some of those lines are, I was the point guard, and Eric Pascal was the two,

and Amari Spelman was the three, and Willie Colley Stall was the four, and Kavon Looney was the five. Like, we saw some of those things. And so I get it. I definitely understand it, but it still pisses me off that y'all just count us out, like, we haven't done this before. It's crazy. Well, you know, the other thing was what you guys do, you were a second rounder.

Stefan Clay were probably under drafted. Jordan Poole at one point went to the G League. Cuminga, you know, Steve's not going to play rookies in the playoffs. Cummiga's twitchy as hell. So what you guys do is the opposite of what the Lakers do, you draft and develop and you're patient. Like, so guys in your, if you watch you or just your team, you'll draft guys, you'll develop them.

And they can disappear for a while. Like, you're not going to play them in the playoffs. And so as a media guy, I'm like, like, Kaminga, to me, I thought he'd play more against Dallas. And I'm like, no, you're not going to play much. So unless you're a diehard, like, if you live in the Bay Area and you're literally watching every second of every Warriors game, it's different. You use different players. I mean, Steph comes back and Jordan Poole starts and Steph's on the bench. And I'm thinking, well, he's not going to be great.

Hell, he can't start. But your culture is different. You guys do what big market teams mostly don't. You draft, you develop your patient. And it's like, that's not the way the Yankees work. That's not the way the Dodgers work. That's not the way the cowboys. Like big brands usually win.

Like Wiggins comes in. I'm not sure. Oh, shit, he's pretty good. Then Steph gets hurt. He's not great in the second half. And you're like, I'm not sure if he's right. And then all of a sudden, I watch him against the Mavs. And I'm like, he's as valuable as anybody in the series.

And you guys have so much depth. It's really, to me, is a consumer of it. You have so much depth. Kerr is doing so many different things. It's hard to predict. You guys, I mean, I think you'd admit this. There are nights against Memphis. You're like, wow, that's bad.

There are halves against Dallas. Wow. And then the next quarter, you're brilliant. So you guys are a lot of variables and a lot of moving parts and you experiment. So you're not simple. You're a complex culture. That's how I view it. Absolutely.

No, I agree 100%. And honestly, I have to give credit. where credit is due. A large part of that is Coach Kerr in the way he coaches in which he never lets a guy rot on the bench. You know, you go around certain teams

and you're like, man, this guy has collected 20 DMPs in a row. You would never in your life in the history of Steve Kerr coaching find anyone, unless it's a playoff game in playoffs. You would never find anyone under Steve's Kerr's tutelage

if you will, or under his tree, and I mean tree as far as players, that's going to collect 20 DMPs in a row. It's not how he coaches. Now, you may collect four in a row, and then he's like, hey, I'm going to put you into the second quarter because he doesn't believe in a guy just sitting

and riding on a bench. Because the way Steve coaches, and he preaches it, he lives by it, is at some point we're going to need each one of you guys to win a game. And I can't expect you to be able to help us win a game if you sat for 20 games straight. And then all of a sudden something happened and I come to you. I think a large part that is due to his career and maybe what he didn't like as a player because he was sometimes in that position. And so I have to give credit to him. And then I also have to give credit to Bob Myers

and then the ownership group. And why I'm giving them credit is when you say taking young talent and being willing to wait and to defend. Like, yes, obviously in order to, in order to be willing to wait, you have to have talents like Steph Curry, like Clay Thompson, like myself, that can still be getting done because one thing I can assure you

is Joe Lakeb is not okay to lose it. I mean, if you ever see Joe Lakeb on the sideline when we're losing the game by four points, he sits there like this, right? This is ridiculous, and it's what you got to love about Joe. But he does not understand losing to the smallest degree. And so for him, he's never going to settle for losing.

Now, where the credit comes in is being willing to hold on to younger guys and not be so hell bent on. We need to get all these young guys in here and bring in experience role players. Because if I'm being 100% honest with you, we all would have voted to bring in experience. Because in the beginning of this season, and I spoke about it before, Bob and Bob was pissed at me, Steve was pissed at me.

Because I said in my press conference, I said we've never seen the mix of young guys and older guys work. We've never seen it work. Like we've always seen that like, oh man, this team is caught in between whether they should go with experience or whether they should go young. and it's a total disaster. And I said in my press conference,

I said we've never seen it work. But for us, and when I say us, I mean myself and Clay and stuff, Andre, for us, that is the challenge. And you want, as a competitor, you want to take on that challenge

and you want to see it work. But if we could all just have to vote and say, the way we know for certain works is by bringing in experience around us, guys that can understand this, cut and understand that and think on the fly and they understand the NBA game. Now, our front office totally disagreed. They wanted to stick with the younger guys and us and it's worked.

And so I have to give them a lot of credit for their belief in it and them understanding and ultimately knowing because they, you know, we have conversations about personnel. Like this isn't just a situation where they're like, all right, these are the guys you have to play with it. Here you go. Like, no, there's a respect level there that they have an appreciation that they have for us and we have for them and we have those conversations. And if it was up to us, of course, we would have all love to have a ton of experience. They thought totally different.

Ultimately, we went with that side of things and they were 100% right. So you have to give them credit for being willing to go out on that limb with the second highest payroll in the NBA and saying, no, we think we can get it done this way. and that's the route we're going to go. And it's been beautiful and helping these young guys grow and watching them grow. It's brought me a different joy to this year because it's not just about, I mean, on those final runs, I was the young guy. Clay was the young guy. Steph was the young guy. And we had David West, Saza, and Barbosa, and the beat goes on.

And so now being in the position to help them, it's brought me a ton of joy. And I'm extremely happy that they decided. to go the route that they did because if they didn't and it was just experienced, then it's just more of the same, right? Like, it's more of what we already done and trying to do again. So I love the challenge and it's been amazing for us. Well, you've been amazing for us. What people don't realize that may listen to this is that Draymond more than any professional

athlete I've ever probably work with at a podcast company or a television network or radio network has demanded at the volume that we hard coach him that he doesn't want to hear us say he's great he's not interested he's like what am i bad at i want to be better and it's incredibly rare but i think it speaks volume i told my wife she's a michigan girl um and i told her i said the beauty of draymond the second round pick is giving him a chip on his shoulder it doesn't matter how rich he is doesn't matter how many rings that stuff that stuff doesn't leave you. I said he is a podcaster like he's a player. He gets up every morning. Coach me hard. I want to be better. And I can tell you as a broadcaster, like it's unbelievable. I've been doing

this 25 years, man. You are one of one. Got your back forever. And I just love that you gave us. First of all, you gave us 16 minutes more than you were supposed to. You got shit to do. So go do it. I appreciate you having me on. And from the bottom of my heart, I just appreciate the entire company in Logan, working with Jackson, it's been an honor. I did the podcast thing before, and it was really early.

I wasn't truly committed to it. I'm kind of doing it at my pace and like, all right, after four weeks off, let's record an episode. And I told myself, if I ever got back into it, I have to go back into it with the mindset that I'm trying to build something,

with the mindset that it takes time and effort and a commitment to it. And I remember the first week we took off this this year, like Jackson had to really fight me on that. Like no, Draymond, I think we could take this week off because I just didn't want to. Like I wanted, I want to stay true to it and be great at it. And so the coaching that you mentioned, I appreciate it was I've learned so much this year in doing this and how to how to keep it going and not how to breaks in the action and just so many different things. And just so many different things and nuances that I've picked up.

And it's in large part due to the coaching. And so, you know, I watch film on myself with these things. And I take notes with the coaching and try to incorporate that into my next segment. So, you know, for you guys to be experts in this space and have all the experience that you all have, I appreciate you all for teaching me and showing me how this podcast thing should be done. because in my mind, Colin, I thought it was just you go pick up a microphone and you go talk and it just flows. And it's so different. And so I appreciate the coaching and the belief in me because I think we're making this thing great, man.

And that's my goal in there. So I appreciate you. Well, I'm not supposed to root for players or teams. But as I've said on my show now, every time I mention you, I say, Draymond Green Hall of Fame. or eventually end the best sports podcast in America. I'm very proud. And keep kicking it. You're crushing for us.

And good luck, buddy. Thank you. I appreciate it. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast

only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygle and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild... It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw unfills of college. conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.