The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Eagles Face TOUGH Roster Decisions, Will Cowboys Draft a QB? Deebo Trade, Jimmy Johnson’s Legacy

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL! They start with Matthew Stafford deciding to stay in LA, debate whether the Rams asking price of a 1st round pick was too steep, and explain why Stafford would be crazy to leave the Rams in pursuit of more money (2:45).   They discuss the pending roster cuts the Eagles are facing after their Super Bowl win and debate whether the Eagles should keep linebacker Zack Baun or wide receiver A.J. Brown or cut/trade both in order to keep their dominant offensive and defensive lines intact (10:30).  They talk about how the infusion of NIL money has changed the game when drafting “celebrity quarterbacks” from college and why it’s given more leverage to prospects, and whether  Shedeur Sanders could overplay his hand in that environment (17:30).  They discuss Jerry Jones’ skipping his typical press conference at the combine after the Deebo Samuel to the Commanders move, why Dak’s contract will sink America’s Team and why Dallas might draft a quarterback in an early round (28:45).   They break down why the ambiguity surrounding Sam Darnold’s future is just the Vikings doing Sam a “solid” after a great season, and predict the Vikings will end up rolling with J.J. McCarthy (38:00).  They discuss the top quarterback prospects and why their landing spot will matter and compare them to recent prospects with tremendous physical gifts like Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson, and why those types of prospects rarely hit (41:15). They talk about the legacy of Jimmy Johnson after announcing his retirement from broadcasting at FOX and why as both a coach and broadcaster, he’s had a lasting impact on the NFL (50:00).  Finally, Colin addresses the “California Haters” ahead of his move to Chicago and asks John about his move out of California to Arizona, whether he has any regrets and whether the state will have to make changes in order to continue being an engine of innovation (1:00:45).   Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art.

The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win. She's an outsider to win the French name.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're going to have a busy week this week at the volume. I think on Wednesday we have Marcus Thompson, who covers the Warriors on the Steph Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the league and great for the Warriors.

Mike Mulvahill, who does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once a year. I'm going to interview him tomorrow. Today, my buddy, former NFL scout, John Middlokoff, his podcast is three and out. So it was interesting. I got a text today from NFL executive. Apparently, the Rams were willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first-round pick. They wanted, and by the way, you know, the Raiders were going to give him 100 million guaranteed,

which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make. But just to throw it out there, the Rams were willing to make a move if they could have two first-round picks. What do you make of that? I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation. What do you make of that? So you're saying that they would not have traded into the Raiders for, let's say, a couple seconds? Nope, they wanted a first.

It was, but it's interesting. They're so close to the Super Bowl. It is interesting that they would have considered that. Now, you know, this is somebody that is close to it. So it's interesting. It's so hard to get close to the Super Bowl, right? Like, thank God the Niners have 12 picks this year. so that should fortify them and make give them another run because they've got you know secondary and

o line issues but it's it's even great teams i mean dynasty's close hard like like you're watching kansas city this year and you're like they're struggling to score points for the second year in a row i just it is interesting they would have considered moving him for a first well i think sean mcvay was very candid last week when he was with his guy whitworth's podcast and he was open to say listen we can't quantify this guy's very very to us on the field, but we can off the field when it comes to our salary cap and we have limitations with the guy that's 37 years old. Yeah.

And I think you used to have a line was it you can't, there's not a happy happier or something. Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy. And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks that would have made the Rams happy, would he have given the thumbs up instead of taking the one. year 40 we'll see what the you know in a week what the number actually turns out to be i think that it's not public kind of shows you that you know the rams didn't just give him 110 million dollars right and i think sean mcvay said today on mackafee it's a year to year thing yeah right so i would

imagine they gave him a little bump up and raised but but relative to the rest of the league he's not making what he's making my take was this i'm not into telling someone uh to quote unquote take a pay cut or what money means to them but he's accumulated uh before before this season even starts, $360 million, right? So I would imagine if his accountant's done pretty well. I know he's got a big family, probably nine figures in the bank and working for him in investments. Like, Matt Stafford's doing really, really well. Not only will he never think about it, his family never will, so it doesn't get any better than Sean McVeigh, does it?

Why would he want to leave? Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred Cupple said that Brooks Kepka, if he could, if he could would go back to the PGA tour from the Live Golf. And again, I think, I do think generational wealth does make you happy for maybe 12 months. You know, it's you get this kind of money. You set up trusts with your kids or you, you know, you buy that third home if you're Brooks Kepka and that fourth car. And it does give you a sense of independence.

But ultimately, people, John, not to be Tony Robbins here, people like to be part of something. you know, it's not just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of something, and it's an established something, and there's credibility with it. That's not a shot at the Liv Tour, which I've defended. But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well-owned, well-run, well-coached.

Right now, the Raiders are a dream of what could be. The Rams are something. So I think, I've always said this, don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make good money. maybe not great money, but good money. Yeah, I think if you use the live guys as an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,

but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. His was more of an FU to the establishment. Right. DeCambeau, Brooks, and DJ, these guys are not NBA NFL players. So they get offered $100 to $180 million. It is hard.

That changes their life. Matt Stafford making an extra $50 million. I mean, you're talking after taxes or whatever. He's taken home $28, $30 million. is not going to change him or his family's life at all, but it will impact his football life, which like you said, the Raiders or the Giants,

which were the teams that look like all in, are not going to win next year. It's just not going to happen. Right. I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders, right? You just to compete in that division, even if you have a huge upgrade at coach, I think SpyTech is a young up-and-comer,

but to think 2012, and Matt Stafford is living in the moment. So to me, the risk of getting the extra money if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards. I think in his football career, what we saw forever in Detroit. He finally, I felt like when he got to Sean McVeigh, got to validate the career. This guy with all this talent, honestly, these last couple years, even more than the Super Bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford, I mean, doesn't get much better than that.

And I think it would have kind of been sad because it would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or 41-year-old Aaron Rogers. It would have been a drop off from Matt Stafford. So I'm just glad that he stayed and it worked out from a football standpoint. Because they have a good offseason, a couple of moves here and there. I mean, who's to say that they are, you know, top two or three favorite in the NFC to be a, you know, win the Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl? Yeah, I mean, I think that game against Philadelphia says it all. They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to the 15-yard line.

And they have a rookie center six-round pick. And they had finally gotten their offensive line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team, better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy with a W. And so, and I've said this, McVeigh doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great seasons with clunkers if, like, Christian McAfree's not healthy. McVeigh wins every year. It's just they don't really, they reboot, they don't necessarily rebuild.

The, I was saying it on. I think, you know one major difference, I think the two right now, is McVeigh has, I thought Kyle because of his personality would be a little more cut throat. He's been emotional when it came to Debo, resigning him and keeping him last year with Iuke. McVeigh, it's like Jalen Ramsey, cut you off see ya. Cooper Cup this year, we're moving on, right? This offseason, Stafford, one year deal, that's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in this weird predicament of they got emotional with some of these players.

And McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots of the Walsh. It's like, yeah, we're done here. And he's had to tactfully change, you know, with golf, he was a little too outspoken. And even he said that, like, I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business. We have to make tough decisions. And I think the 49ers found themselves in a rut because they tied themselves to every single player instead of, you know, in football, the guy can be a good player, but you got to pivot. You can't sign them all.

Well, I mean, Philadelphia is in that spot right now. Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one. You and I, any fan could make that because. they nailed their two, you know, they're two early picks at corners. Right. The tougher pick is going to be, do you keep the linebacker, do you keep A.J. Brown? And I've said this before.

I would move off A.J. Brown. It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early, he gets hurt often. When a receiver is verbal and outspoken early, they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right? So, Debo didn't get quieter. I would move off AJ Brown because you're so good at running back O-line, quarterback, tight end, and Devante Smith.

I think that's an easy one. But you don't want to think like a fan, but I think people will look at AJ Brown and go, he's so good. It's wide receiver. You can find really Pooka Naku is a fifth rounder. I mean, there's one or two positions in the NFL, cornerback, wide receiver, running back. It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round.

Like there's all sorts of examples. So, like, I look at Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is going to look different. Not everybody's going to love it. So to me, that was a little bit of a caution. Guys, we're moving off some popular, talented guys. You don't say that if you just have to cut Darius Slay. That's an easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.

Yeah, to me, the A.J. Brown one would only be if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of let the cat out of the back. and then they tried to walk it back. Right. It's like, come on. But, you know, winning Cures All and their relationship, I mean, he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is when healthy, one of the best, what, four or five, six wide receivers in the league. I think the only way they would do something like that would be to clear up some movement if they could get Miles Garrett. And by all accounts, they are going to be one of the lead dogs in those moves.

So I think the thing was Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie and I would just say consistent football team. maintain it or not. He's like, yeah, he's a good guy. He had an incredible season, but are we going to break the bank for a linebacker? And history would say the Eagles and good teams do not. That's right.

Right? Let someone else give you four years, $80 million and $45 million guaranteed. And this is why you keep drafting and why you keep investing. And listen, part of being a good NFL team take some luck. Sometimes you've got a guy one year, $4 million, first team all pro. that's why you pay Vic Fangio $5, $6 million. You know, last year he looked at this guy, special teamer, kind of outside linebacker,

let's make him a middle linebacker under my tutelage, Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I do this again? Why can't we find a guy in the draft maybe on the second day, second or third round, let Fangio mold him like a piece of clay? He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he?

That's the best case scenario. But no one in a million years in the NFL would have said, Zach Vaughn, first team all pro, middle linebacker, no chance. And that's that, you know, football more than all these other sports, the power of these coordinators, if you get it right. I mean, look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators over the years, can change your franchise, right? Because it's, you're not paying them player money.

You're paying them four, five, six million dollars. It's amazing to me how fans really, really struggle. And to me, AJ Brown and Bonner, the linebacker, are pretty easy moves. Because I'm not going to disrupt

that O line, probably for the next three years. I mean, I'm, that O line, maybe in two to three years, Lane Johnson retires. But the core of that organization to me

is now Sequin, Jalen Hertz, and that O line. Everything else to me, I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really, I mean,

think how great. people thought DAC was. I mean, people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback when the Cowboys O-line five years ago, those guys were all closer to their prime. Now we look up and go, Jesus, that, Dak's the most overpaid guy in the NFL by a long shot. So, you know, I just think when I look at, like when Tyreek Hill, Andy Reid moved off him. I never forget the day it happened. I was like, yeah, of course you move off him. Like you got, look at the pick state guy. At the time,

I'm like, first round, second round, second round. I'm like, Brett Feach is going to hit on at least half of these. Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat. Those guys don't mean much in December and January when it's freezing and windy. So, I mean, the AJ Brown one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a receiver, Debo's a prime example.

When they start getting outspoken early, that doesn't go backwards. And by the way, you won with him. You got to a couple of Super Bowls. I also think there's at some point in a salary cap sport, Players become commodities. And there's just, you have to move them. They're chest pieces. And you say, well, where's the humanity?

Come on. We all know the game here. This is the way it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now, kids leave their program all the time. They make promises. They commit. They leave. We all know this is how the game works.

Well, the one thing with AJ, too, if that would be something they wanted to do, he still has a lot of value. He still one of the best players in the league. I mean, you're not just kicking him away like Deboebo for a fifth round pick. It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah. I don't know if you could get, I mean, they traded a first forum. Could they get a late first? I mean, some of those teams don't have the most cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and a third. Yep. You know, I think there's always other moves. He's not just getting rid of a

player to get rid of a player. You know, that Milton Williams, the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love to keep. But guys like that are, he's going to get $20 million a year. That's right. So I think they're always thinking, the one thing, the Eagles, have been like since before I got there and ever since long after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm telling you, if Miles Garrett, this is the Browns can say all they want, we're not moving on. And listen, I would understand if you're a well-run, a competitive team, but given the Deshaun's situation, this is a time to just blow the thing up. And to me, he would net you multiple first round pick. So if that, if he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and center with the package of things that they would.

put in front of them to land that player. And their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is you pay these insane bonuses. Right. Right. It's everyone plays under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can cut you a bigger signing bonus. And that's where guys sign up for. Yeah. And for the record, fans tend to think all these owners are even.

No, they're not. Stan Cronky, Jeffrey Lurie, the Denver Broncos can pay more up front than a majority of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just not an organization. I mean, the Packers have to get everything approved. The Bears don't have that kind of money historically. I saw something today that came out. And I have a friend who has a business, and the business changed. It was not his fault.

And just the culture of his business changed three or four different ways post-COVID. And he's now stuck with sort of a business that's not – it lost about 30% of its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion the other day. about something that, you know, I own a podcast company, and now it's more of a, we call it more of a media company because we had to grow. And if you don't grow, you'll die. You'll get eaten alive.

And I was watching these stories about Shadour Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to some people during interviews. And I was thinking about this. Here's what's changed the last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to when you were 21 years old. or 22 years old, if you had like $7 million in the bank, I would have been cocky, like cocky-er. And, you know, there was always this thing. Bill Parcells years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity

quarterbacks. Well, that's over. I mean, these guys, I'm sorry, if you play at Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it, you know, under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average, and he's a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing, though, is, am I wrong? You're a former scout that NIL kids come now and they're not starving. And they have a nice car and they may have $2 million in the bank. And if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a bottom-tier organization and they think to themselves, I don't want to play for the blank.

I don't want to play for this team or that team or Cleveland. You know, I'm going to come in with a little attitude. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying the world changes. And I think NIL for quarterbacks, these kids are coming into interviews now with a little more leverage and with a stronger opinion on themselves. Yeah, I've been talking to my buddies that are on the road the last couple years and they will tell you that, you know, at the big power four top, I don't know, 30, 40 programs, the parking lots look like the NFL parking lots. for the college kids. Like you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State or Penn State or Alabama or LSU. I would say there are 70 or 80 brand new cars.

And from everything, I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen. And like you said, he's average. I think, you know, part of this is talking to friends, they like it because these guys are easy to evaluate how they handled. They made, let's say, $1.8 million over the last couple of years. and their work ethic, their accountability, none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry. Like, he's a rich kid. Yeah.

I mean, he grew up, but he's Dionne's son. So he's been around the bright lights from day one, right, since the beginning. I think the questions people have with Shador is there was a famous line of Dion, like, I think the New York Giants wanted to interview him at the Combine, and he asked him like, where are you drafted? And they said, seventh. He's like, I'm not wasting my time. But Dion could back it up because he was one of the same.

the best prospects we've ever seen. He became one of the great players we've ever seen. These people look at, you know, when they're interviewing Shador, they don't look at him like he's Andrew Luck or Caleb Williams. Like, he's not the best prospect they've ever seen. So I think sometimes they look for a little humility in that moment. And I don't know, I think Shador's going to be a fascinating case. I will say this, watching him as a player. Like, sometimes you get kind of that cockiness. You're like, this guy's kind of a fake fraud, not that tough. Like, he is tough. Like you watch him play. Oh, God, yes.

So to me, there's an old school nature to his game that he gets from his dad. I think they would question his arm's not great relative to like elite prospects. Yeah. And even he admitted, like I got my mom's jeans as an athlete, not my dad. So he's not an upper echelon athlete. And yeah, I just think he's going to be fascinating. Some people think he could fall out of the top 10. Who knows?

I mean, there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed. Everyone thinks the Giants are going to take one of the, these court. What if they just signed Sam Donald? They're not a get locked to sign any of these or draft any of these guys. So I, I think Cam Ward, who has a much more, I would say, gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arm. Yeah. More, you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew you're in. Right. So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in, guy come out. Guy comes in, guy comes out. So it's just kind of my living in the moment. And when you come off a little

bit different. You know, some guys are just rubbed the wrong way. Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are. All the new ways to get in on the action at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Slamms, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players. Prom bets you can make on Draft Kings. It's fun. The home of NBA player props. If you're ready to place your first bet, make it really simple. Pick how many points your favorite player's going to score. Go to Draft King Sportsbook. They have an app, download it, make your pick. If you're a first timer, Here's something special.

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Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down. Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests.

from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

Jenchen win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business, brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures,

reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single-barrel bourbon, getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwiskey.com and discover legend in a bottle today. So there was a moment this weekend, Jerry Jones canceled his interview at the NFL Combine. And the Cowboys have had a rough couple years. I mean, they gave away a fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out Cooper Rush.

I mean, if Kyle Shanahan can't make a quarterback accurate, he's not accurate. They gave up a fourth round pick for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver, five catches for the Cowboys. And again, both those moves, you know, we all kind of went, meanwhile, the commanders gave up a fifth round pick for Debo Samuel. And it's, it's really interesting as I, as I look at Washington, not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters, Cliff, Dan Quinn, uh, that move for Debo, Jaden Daniels. And I don't think, a lot of times there's recency bias. I honestly believe for the next decade,

Washington is going to be one of the three best NFC teams. And I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming the old Al Davis Raiders, they feel like they are, honestly, they are lost at sea. I mean, they are giving away draft picks now.

I mean, people don't understand. They may re, re-work DAC's contract. It's a $90 million cap hit. That is over double Josh out. They can rework it all they want to what? 58.

I said this a year ago. I said they're going to start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast in this league. Shit goes south, so fast. What did you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth round pick. Well, to me, you just look at the free agent class and you go, well, we don't want to get in any long, because the whole thing was Washington has all this cap space. They need some more weapons for Jaden. And you look around, you go, well, NFL free agency is the most overrated

thing because high-end guys never make it. And the guys that do, you have to pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years, $90 million. He actually turned out to be okay, but you have to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So I can get Debo on a year-to-year contract. I have all this space. All I have to give up is a fifth-round pick. In the NIL era, fifth, sixth, seventh-round picks feel like diminished and watered down. I also think you get a guy who's a little motivated.

People are calling him fat, you know, a little like Luca style. Adam Peters knows the guy well. Cliff Kingsbury, you know, when you think back to Arizona, they used a lot of gadget players. Rondale Moore, the Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get behind the line of scrimmage. you know, I actually think it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side, Terry McClure and Brandon Ayyuk. To me, if you get a motivated debo, it's a no-brainer.

We have all this cap space. I give him 17. All I have to give up is a fifth round pick. And if you're the 49ers, you weren't going to pay him $17 million here in a couple weeks. So it's, I think it's kind of a win-win. The Niners are moving off. They don't have to eat any of the money. They trade to a team where the general manager was around not only,

drafting him, but his good and bad moments. Yeah. So knows his personality. Because that's another thing. I mean, you've been saying it forever. Why are you going to be a little moody? Yeah. They got a little like Hollywood actor to them.

They need to be, uh, you just, you have to know their personality. It's very rare to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more Debo. And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I think the Jerry Jones thing, how often in any business that if the 80-year-old patriarch of the operation is around? And his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway. Is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering?

He's made an ungodly amount of money. He does not need to be there. And he's extra hands-on. So you could argue Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown as they've quote-unquote struggled over the last decade relative to some of their big seasons and they've underwhelmed in the playoffs. It doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what?

I'm going to let Stephen and Will McKay and my coach. coach take a bigger role. I'm just, I'm just going to be more of a figurehead. He always doubles down. I'm cutting the check. My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a football guy. And he's not wrong. I mean, he played college football. He's been around in his whole life. But unlike a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. And the business of his team is marketing and all that. And there's just a lot going on with the Cowboys. And, you know, Micah Parsons, what's, you talk about Dax cap hit, if they do give Micah a new deal and don't trade them, what's that deal? $150 million guaranteed?

It's a quarterback contract. Brutal. No, I mean. So they're in three guys at a combined, what, like $500 million? It's crazy. I mean, I just, you can't have three different players top of the market when only one of them, C.D. Lamb is top five at his position in the NFL. It's like, I mean, I, it's, I had a very good year last.

year predicting very bad year picking individual games, very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington and Denver and some of the upstarts. This year, I think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team. I think the Jets are going to go sideways a little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami, I kind of think they've topped out a little bit, all the motion and the tricks and smoke and mirrors. I think there's limitations there.

I think New England's going to be in play. And my other one is, I think Dallas is potentially a five or six-win team with Brian Schontenheimer. I mean, the good news is it's a good quarterback draft to have to go out and get one. If I was Dallas this year, in fact, I think I heard Stephen Jones say this, I had another person tell me, who I respect, keep your eye on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round. Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now, they're not late second. I think Dallas may trade down in the second round to get a mid-second

pick. I am hearing more and more. And I went and watched him about a month ago, Kyle McCord. throws a really nice ball. And I thought about this. If he had stake, because Will Howard completed 61% of his throws at Kansas State. He goes to all. Ohio State can complete 73% of his throws, if you don't think that matters. If Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith and Ibuca and the two NFL running backs, and Kyle McCord, who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's not even, it's not case. Will Howard is like late fifth, sixth.

In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL, he thinks after the combine, he's a seventh round pick. I think he had a bad combine. Oh, bad. I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being as good as any quarterback in that draft. This is my hottest take is that he'll be the guy. Tell me I'm wrong. Well, I think, yeah, I watched a couple of Syracuse games this season and went,

this is the guy that Ryan Day, because let's face it, they blamed him for the Michigan loss two years ago. And he got kicked out. And so I, listen, I believed him. I was like, hey, this guy, if he can't make it there, maybe they're right. and then you watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in a while, he was spinning. He's got a big arm, tight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart, because there are so many question marks with the top two guys with Cam and Shador, if you're talking about two guys that you have to draft in the top,

I don't know, one guy in the top five, the other guy in the top 12. You can get these two guys. Historically, McCord is not going to be a first round pick, but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second round pick. You could find the Derek Carr's, the Jimmy Garoppos, these guys that can start. for you and if you do a good job building your team, you can win with. I think the problem for the Cowboys is if you look at the DAC era, they really only had to deal with the Eagles.

Right, just kind of went back and forth over the last 10 years, right, with Doug Peterson and then Siriani era. Well, now it's not just the Eagles, it's Washington too. So you add another team? Because Washington, up until last year was a joke. The Giants have been terrible for what, a decade plus? So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with the Eagles. They have to deal with Washington?

I mean, that's a huge problem. if they do draft McCord, Jackson Dart, whoever, let's say they draft a second round pick. That does nothing for them in 2025. And honestly, does nothing for them the next couple years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping to get their joy and love, which is good big picture team building. But it does not help them trying to beat the Eagles or Washington in week seven when you're three and three and your season kind of feels like it's teetering, right? Yeah. The, you know, it was interesting.

I had this take that Sam Darnold so overachieved for the Vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young GM feel like they owe Sam Donald. They owe him a solid. And everybody likes Sam. Impossible not to like if you meet him. And so they have said publicly, we're not sure what we're going to do. We may re-sign him. And everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVeigh is a really good coach.

Now, I'm theorizing this. But Kevin O'Connell knows what he's going to do at quarterback. He's going to use J.J. McCarthy. Yeah. But they're doing a solid. This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield. He told everybody, God, Baker was great. I've never seen a guy work this hard.

He was unbelievable. You do a guy a solid who comes in. You want to help him. You want a good reputation that I think the Vikings know what they're going to do. but they feel like Sam is a better guy than Aaron Rogers. And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market, they're going to say nice things about Sam to get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams like Vegas,

it's going to come down potentially to Sam and Aaron. So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few enemies in his career. You know, he's got his reputation, that the Vikings are just doing this to get Sam the better deal on the market. Yeah, man, I do think last year kind of spoke for itself. He did play really well. Yes.

I mean, you and I coming on week in, week out. Was that an MVP performance? I mean, that throw and that play he made against Seattle near the end of the season, you thought, like, could he actually win the MVP? And then those last two games, I would say, you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard part is there were so much on the line in those two games. Right.

was horrendous. I think the difference of the two is, one, I would struggle with Aaron for any amount of money over like $10, $12 million. Because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to get hit. Yeah. It's naturally kind of moody with an offensive coordinator, just a unique cat. Sam, his value kind of is Baker Mayfield. Like, it's not a super cheap deal. So you're talking, I would say, 80 to 100.

But it is, you're getting in bed with him for a couple seasons. even if it's the Daniel Jones contract, that's a multiple year contract. So there becomes pressure on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind of in win now mode. Right. You know, does it make more sense? Let's just go with Aaron Rogers and maybe, you know, veteran quarterback. Who knows what he's doing?

If we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think Sam, like all these quarterbacks, you're going to be much better with Sean McVeigh, with Kevin O'Connell, with Kyle Shanahan. You get with some of these coaches, like, you're just not. I mean, look at Iber Fluse and Caleb in that situation. Now, we'll find out how good Caleb actually is, but he had no chance last year. Well, this is funny about the draft.

I was talking to somebody in the league about Jalen Milro. And, you know, this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid. He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he did say to me, he said, but if he goes to a defense, offensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator. He goes, Jalen Millroll is going to look really bad. He said, now, if he goes to, you know, he goes to a, there's an offensive sensibility, or he goes to, you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have to start. He said the kid is physically, he is a better athlete than Anthony Richardson. Like, he just will run people over or run by

them. And he said he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw a gorgeous anything. But to your point with Donald, and Gardner Minshew with Shane Stuyken almost made the playoffs. In Las Vegas, it was a mess. And I think that's how I feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do, John, where do they land? Now, I think Cam Ward is talented enough to overcome a little nonsense. And you get one of those guys every year where they're just kind of good enough to make it work to some degree. But I think every other guy in this drafting, Jackson Dart, Jalen Milrow,

Kyle McCord, Shudor Sanders, they get poor coaching, they get a bad old line. It could be ugly fast. You know, someone asked me, like, what's the difference between Jalen Milrow and Anthony Richardson? I said, well, Anthony Richardson had a lot of unknown. Jalen, the problem with Jalen is we've seen two years

at Alabama as a starter. If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would be a lock first round pick. We could mold them. We can figure it out. His sample size was too big. The thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size. And then the bigger it got, Trey Lance, one year starting. If he had started three years, would people have been off the scent? And that's where some of these guys that have been three or four year starters, you got Will Campbell. Everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a four-year starter at LSU at left tackle. He might end up being a guard, but I'll promise you. He's going to start in the NFL for a decade.

Right. He might be a guard, but he's going to start in the NFL for a decade. Right. He might be a guard, but he's going to start in the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where I'm getting beat because of my own. But sometimes Logan Mankins was a left tackle at Fresno State. They moved him at guard pro bowler. The thing with quarterbacks, the accuracy thing, does rattle people.

And we have recent examples, Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, who were, listen, sometimes you swing for the fences. Aaron Judge, 500 feet. Sometimes you strike out. Yeah. And, you know, Anthony Richardson, let's face, it looks like a whiff. Their GM comes out and says, we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that year three about the guy you drafted in the top five, it's a problem. Yeah.

Trey Lance was traded before whatever, before year three started. So I think those two guys serve as Jalen and where people talk themselves as in on Anthony Richardson. And Chris Bowdoin wasn't alone. People really like the kid. That's, you know, Shador, these interviews, people said Anthony Richardson blew him away. Yeah. We love them. And I think Jalen Milrose, same type deal.

Yeah. Look at the similar parallels of all the saving quarterbacks. They handle the room pretty well, right? They walk in. You go back to A.J. McCarron to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy, all the way through the group of the last five, six years. They all handle the room well. The problem is that only goes so far can you complete the 18-yard-out route, right?

Or you're going to hit the trainer on the sideline. And I think Jalen Milrow, like Anthony Richardson, like I've learned this, because I lean the physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non-start. The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier. And I think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't know if we're ever seeing that again. In his story, right, bouncing around begging people to sign. He's just in his own little box.

Yeah. You know? So, and I think everyone's kind of chasing that. Like, that's not going to happen again. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news?

We created our own. podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was, this is how you guys. guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

and I know firsthand, because I think, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on my show today. And he's made three Hall of Fame. And I said it on the air as Jimmy and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff behind the scenes.

90% of it didn't make the air. And it was just good, 90% of it was just filler and information to me that I can then pass on to the audience. But some stuff, Jimmy told me I would never pass on. And that's, that's part of what you and I do. Like we have sources, we have friends, I protect them. Jimmy told me some stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat. But, you know, thinking about Jimmy Johnson, one of the cool things about,

sports is it gets smarter over time. And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too many threes. But for years, you know, somebody finally said, you know, the math is way better if you shoot threes over twos. The math works out better. And it, you know, it's like in baseball, you know what, strikeouts, they're not the end of the world. Ground balls are. So just, you know, we have more efficiency. We have more numbers, more math. For years, the strikeout in baseball was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL as, I don't think people, some of our audience knows this, but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made that Herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now they make more trades by

far than the NBA. And do you take me back, because you obviously are younger than me, I can remember the Herschel Walker trade. And again, I may be dating myself. I can remember the reaction. People celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like they stole Herschel Walker. And in the end, it is the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell me your thoughts about that moment, Jimmy Johnson. What do you remember him for?

Well, you know, growing up in Northern California, the 49ers might as well have been the Yankee. I was born in 84. So by the time I was coming into my own as a sports fan, 91, 92, 93, I have vivid memories of watching the NFC championship games that the 49ers could not win. And my father, like most 49er fans, were not big Steve young guys

because Joe Montana might as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus. And it was not going well. And I just remember those teams were so, good. But in 2020, the Super Bowl was held in Miami, and it was the 49ers and the Chiefs, and Fox had it. And I went to do a three and out podcast. You were there. I was hung out in Miami for three or four days, and I went to the Chiefs Hotel. And I was with some of the guys with the Chiefs. And they said, you'll never believe this, but yesterday, Andy, because the Fox guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team. And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach.

let alone, like, he was once upon a time, like, the best coach in the NFL. And one of the great, like Pete Carroll, right, of the 80s and 90s, winning in college and the pros, and said, and these guys, I mean, the guy telling me the story had been in the NFL for 20 plus years, still on the staff to this day, said he had never seen a pre-game, it wasn't in pre-games, but, you know, it was like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone, the hair on the back of their neck stood up. Like, he's like, Jimmy doesn't still got it. he could coach this team lead us out to the Super Bowl.

And he said the place went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen, Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had, I mean, I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair. But he said of all the people that Coach Reed and all the people that he's just seen come in from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close. That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And I think some guys, and this is like, I'm glad that John McVeigh didn't go to Amazon.

on like the NFL benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox and Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL business big picture. But they did lose, I mean, a pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete Carroll come back. Right. These people belong. And you talk, you're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who retired. How often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick?

Those are his people. Yes. You know, he has more in common with them than he does, you know, media people. even though he'll go down as one of the great television personalities with a sport in the history of the league. But, yeah, I mean, I just remember having described that kind of speech that he gave to the team. And he's no dummy. You know, he's like, hey, Jimmy. You know, and he said it was fantastic.

But I remember Jimmy and those cowboys beating the 49. I remember they beat him in a rainstorm, I think the second straight NFC championship game. And as a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young, I mean, can you imagine the story? in in 2025, the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve Young and then constantly losing to this other team. So it was a really big deal when I was a kid of the Cowboys beating the 49ers. Yeah, it was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami Days, Miami Hurricanes. And, you know, the convicts against the Catholics. And he was so proud about how many kids had made like, you know, the honor role and how he was like, you know, people just thought we were a bunch of dummies.

He goes, we had a lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know, it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that liked to go out and chop it up. And he goes, that was part of it. He goes, but he goes, you don't, he goes, because I had to ask Jimmy one time, I may have been on the air or off. And I said, like if I said, what is the one quality of a great team? And I asked Jimmy this on more than one occasion.

He always gave the same answer, intelligence. He goes, players have to be willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes, guys that don't do their work, guys that just are slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are intelligent teams. And he goes, because he goes, especially in the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as good as Philadelphia, but the last two years, the chiefs have been so good situationally.

That's just smart dudes who have been around, the Joe Tunis and the Kelsey's and the Mahomes. Those dudes have been around in big games. So, I mean, I think you talked about this, the Kansas City Chiefs, when they were mimicking them, those players were like, you know, when they won that Super Bowl post-Tirek Hiller, like, we just won, we barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like, you know, so it's one of the things Jimmy always preached was you've got to have player, you cannot develop players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes,

you need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about getting players. I mean, he told me those Miami teams, he go, Colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen. You know, he goes, you know, places like New Jersey would have four or five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is that a good school?

And he's like, yes. He said, so, you know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked. We weren't getting five-star guys in the offensive line. He goes, but our guys developed. And it's just, I got to tell you, if you're in your 20s, you do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were, you had to watch them when they played the big games. Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State. They had, they were the running rebels with Tark with Stacey Ogman and Larry Johnson. They were like outlaws in their own sense, and it was unbelievable television.

I'd even say the Cowboys team he built. I mean, we argue this a lot with could these players play now or play before? I mean, that offensive line that just road graded for Emmett Smith with Troy, with Michael Irvin, that offense was just, I mean, with North Turner, who was really like a Sean McPaic, Kyle Shanahan 30 years ago, was an offensive coordinator. I mean, Troy Aikman still swears by him. But building that team, I mean, that move he made to then accumulate. And this is back in the day, like, we don't have this really anymore because there's a clear line of like coach and GM. They kind of work together. These GMs are also famous.

Like, he was the GM, right? He was the coach, the GM. And that's what piss Jerry off, which I would say is one of the more famous front office breakups in, at least in my lifetime, Jimmy Johnson. And the 49ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh, essentially. Yeah. I felt like those two huge personalities that you just don't win. Like you get rid of a coach. People are, they will side with the coach who's a championship level guy every single time.

But I just remember those Cowboys teams being so. And the other thing is I think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean, those Cowboy teams had they were on like a cocaine ring with strippers and stuff. Yeah. But even Dion, you know, huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April who was a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the late 80s, early 90s. about Dionne. He said, listen, Dion's shooting music videos. He's doing all this stuff. He was always the guy sitting in the front of our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would pick up

like that. And on the practice field, I've never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes these old school guys, because like, oh, Michael Jordan was drinking all the time. We'll get on the practice court with him. Michael, Michael Irvin hasn't slept. Lawrence Taylor hasn't slept. Well, then practice starts. Like, they are, there is no. step off. There's no load management with these guys. Different breed. You know, different time, different breed. But when I think of those teams, I just think of, like, you could put those teams right now in 2025 and they would wreck shop. Yeah. And there are, you know, it's funny Lawrence Taylor, a Michael Jordan, a Michael Irvin. I've always, I've known guys, not many, but I've known a handful of

guys that they're just wired different. They got different genetics. And they can play 36 holes of Gulf in South Carolina in August and go out and party till midnight and they're up at six and they can do it like four straight days. I do it once. I'm wrecked. Some people need less sleep. You know, some people do not need three or four. You know, Kobe Bryant was notorious. Michael Jordan. Tiger Woods. Andy Reed. Like these guys aren't sleeping eight, nine out. They don't need it. I need eight hours to function. More of mine to work. Yeah. By the way, I was talking about this. We'll wrap with this. And again, we have Marcus Thompson, who. covers the Warriors later this week. Michael Mulvahill, who does research and analytics for Fox,

will be on later this week. I bring him on once a year. He's got great insight. And every time I bring him on, people just love Mike Mulvahill. So he'll be on later this week. I'd say there's not a human alive beside In the Curry family that knows Steph better and probably has a closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcus Thompson. Yeah. He's a great storyteller. Such a good dude. So as you know, I'm moving some of my operations to Chicago. And you know what? I've found really funny. And listen, I don't, my wife was not a fan of L.A., but we both, I like L.A.

I love California. I love Californians. I'm going to move to Chicago. Don't love the weather, but whatever. But you know, the traffic, the taxes, the people? Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a big city. It's it. I compare it to Rome.

It's just, it's a lot. It's spread out. It could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah, the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't cheap there. I like California. I like the people.

There's a lot I like about it. But we have a place in the birds in Chicago, but it was funny. You know, people will come up. Why are you moving here? You know, just say, yeah, my wife's got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California. And I said this to somebody. I said, listen, you ever been on Google?

Ever watched Netflix? You ever watch YouTube? You ever use DocuSign? And I started naming these companies. I'm like, they're all California founded and based. And there's a lot of smart people that built those. And despite the taxes and regulations, they still built like the six of the ten biggest companies in America are California based.

And it's funny, you live in California. And there's so much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive. And I do think there's a lot of waste and the politics can get very wacky in Sacramento. But I thought of you when I defended him after I thought, I'm going to ask, Middilkoff, you moved out of California and you're happy getting married soon. You're very, very happy. How do you look at leaving California?

Do you miss it ever? No, I think it's the best move I've ever made without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there is a big difference between Southern California and Northern California. Yeah. I mean, you get a lot more sun than we got. up there and the prices are the same and depend on where it could be Palo Alto in some of these areas, Danville, I mean, are most expensive areas in like the world. Yeah. So you factor in a lot of that. I do wonder big picture with California, and listen, I got a brother who has a farming

operation, like he's going to, he's 35 years old, he'll be there the rest of his life. My mother lives there. My friends and family live there. I go back there to see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I would say change the state financially, put it in a different stratosphere, those companies that you go back to, you know, Apple and the companies in the 80s and 90s that have taken off. And listen, I have a lot of friends. When I graduated from Cal Poly, it was 0708 range. A lot of my friends went to work in Northern California for startup companies that turned or early iterations of the Facebooks, right? Or, you know, Oracle as it was really taken off in these companies. And they have financially, the windfall that they've had at,

through their 30s is, you know, like being a backup point guard. I mean, some of these, it's been incredible. Are these companies in 2025, you know, the version of Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley, give it how expensive it is to run your business there and get people to come? And I just wonder, I mean, you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas, and here in Arizona, that it is so much more lucrative. If I was going to start a company, the first. of what these have become, and that's the mindset of all these people in Silicon Valley.

It is so much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in Miami or and I just wonder big picture the Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood, right? The movies, at least to my knowledge and reading articles are not shot there like they once were right because it's so much cheaper. I have a buddy that listens to this podcast that is the lead in suits LA. They shot that thing in Canada. Yeah. No, no. I mean, listen. I just I just wonder. Now, historically, there's always shifts back and forth. Yeah. And you and I've spent time, you spent more time, but I live in Philly for a couple years.

I do feel like the wiring of those people, it goes back and forth too, but they will draw a hard line in the sand. Yeah. In California, I don't know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I don't know. It's going to be a huge, I don't want to say experiment, but it's going to be fascinating to watch over the next 10 years. Can they shift back because they're going to have to keep these coming? They have the apples, the Facebooks, the or oracles. They are, they're there.

But what about the new versions of these companies over the next 20, 30, 50 years? Will they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch? Or are they happening in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas, or in Glendale, Arizona? I don't know. Yeah, no, I think it's a good point. We thought five years ago that all these companies like Apple and Meta were far left. And to your point, they drew a line in the sand and those guys were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know,

inauguration day, like front and center, making a statement. So I think with big business, there's always a line in the sand. People, I've said this before. You know, Bob Eiger, privately of Disney is more conservative

than he is publicly because he runs an entertainment company and you kind of have to lean left publicly, but privately, you have to do business. You know, you have, you know, there's decisions you have to make that you're not going to, announce, but it's just interesting as I was talking about California. And, you know, my wife wasn't a

big fan of Los Angeles. My son wasn't. That's okay. I mean, it's just a big city. But it is interesting when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man, they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA. Like people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how I feel when I'm in the Midwest, how California is. People have been to it twice once as Disneyland when they were eight and they got a big opinion on it. Obviously, a lot of people in my life, I would say live in the greater San Francisco area. Yeah. And have for a long period of time and live good lives.

I do think they would be shocked to hear the common theme, the way humans talk about San Francisco. I would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago, in Kansas City, than Los Angeles is. Yeah, yes. I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed by the average dude as the most toxic place in America, in terms of just polarizing of craziness. I went to a Super Bowl in San Francisco. I stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me. I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left on social stuff, right on fiscal stuff. I didn't walk around much at night. And this was, is that eight years ago? Like, I remember being there.

Yeah, I remember being there and thinking, this is not the same place, at least not in this neighborhood. And I went to the same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no, I'm, I mean, listen, I'm not somebody that just, I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative radio and I'm not here with the talking points. But it's been really fascinating for me to, you know, moving some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an opinion on California.

You know, a lot of times I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it is, boy, to people have an opinion, man. I think the other thing people would be shocked about is the amount of money that your average employee at some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that are my age, right? Late 30s, early 40s, make. I mean, it's the money there. And this is why, listen, a lot of my friends don't love definitely the politics. there and, you know, they have young children, the school system. Things can be really wacky,

but it's really hard to find $800,000 jobs. You know, when you're a state school graduate, you know, at these places that you've been at for a long time and, you know, these, the companies, you know, from my generation that graduated into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley changed a lot of people in my world's life. Now, I'm working in football, making nothing as they are just taking off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard over the last, I was say six months is they are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you, they're doing the Elon. So what do you do?

You know, because you start, you lay off 10 employees, you could be, you know, if they average compensation, $750,000, it can add up pretty fast. Yeah. And, you know, as they got so big that you weren't paying attention over the last couple years, I think, and listen, Elon takes a lot of shit. When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here? This place isn't making any money. And secretly, I think everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to fall suit.

like six months later, much quieter. Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta, two friends that work at Meta. And over the last three years, Zuckerberg has gone into hyper-efficiency mode. Like he is just every meeting. That's what they discuss. So, yeah, I think people look at Elon, but I think it's a trend in that part of that sector and that part of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy. And layers of bureaucracy, we're getting out of it. And so it's anyway, it's just, it's our last topic today.

John Midlakov, three announced the podcast as a former Californian who kicked it to the curb and is now golfing in December in Scottsdale and loving life. Okay, Colin. Take it easy. All right, buddy. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

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