The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - INSTANT REACTION: Celtics Win The 2024 NBA Title!!!

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the Celtics winning the NBA Finals in five games over the Dallas Mavericks. They start by reflecting on what the legacy of  the 2024 Boston Celtics will be (3:30) why Jaylen Brown was more deserving of the finals MVP award than Jayson Tatum (10:00), and the outlook for the Celtics moving forward (14:00). They point to Kyrie Irving’s wild inconsistency as a huge problem for Dallas (19:00) and why the Mavericks need to make changes in order to be a true title contender (26:00). They also offer up some suggestions on the “right” star to pair with Luka Doncic (33:00) Finally, they argue why the Celtics absolutely deserved to win the title this year (38:00) and point to which teams to look out for in 2025 (47:00)!  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis'clock, he's like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro.

And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of family secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From IHeart Podcasts, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam?

One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. It's for Vietnam. They're pouring patril all over here. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn. out everything. Listen to Saigon on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dark. as people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The volume. All right, we are really, really close to crowning an NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way, especially in game one. How about you sign up for Draft King Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the NBA? They'll cover it every step of the way. It takes you 90 seconds to download the thing. They got same game parlays, live betting, odds boosts. I like doing my parlays, two and three team parleyes.

We've actually had a really good year with parlays. Warriors during the regular season. Let's cross our fingers. I got a Celtic one that's coming up that's pretty tasty. If you're a new customer, go check it out at Draft Kings. Bet five bucks, that's it. Five bucks get 150 bucks in bonus bets instantly. You bet five get 150 bucks.

Only on Draft Kings. The crown is yours. I'm leaning Celtics in six, baby. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler. Or in West Virginia, visit 1-800 gambler.net. In New York, call. 877 8-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y 4667-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling.

Call 888-78-9-777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. One no-sweat per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the volume. Happy Monday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. This NBA Finals, Game 5, Instant Reaction is brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited.

How do you cash back? Well, we have another NBA season in the books as the Boston's Celtics are hoisting the Larry O.B. We got Colin Coward here to break it all down. We will also react to the finals MVP news when the report comes down. Obviously, we're waiting on that still. but Colin, I want to kick it to you like this. Every NBA champion has this like indelible mark on the history of the NBA.

How will you remember the 2024 Boston Celtics? I think the deepest team easily, the most equipped with shooters, passers, ball handlers. You know, you've got six players, Horford, Borzingus, Derek White, Brown, Tatum, Holiday, all really high-end NBA players that would be either a one-or-old. a two on a lot of different teams in this league. Dallas is like the LeBron James Cleveland team that got to the finals against the Spurs. I don't really think they're close. LeBron eventually left that team.

They're just ill-equipped. Listen, they got a break, is that Minnesota knocked out Denver, perfectly built to beat Denver. Denver led by 20 in the fourth, 20 points in that game and lost. Denver matches up with Boston. Maybe doesn't beat them, but matches out well. Minnesota doesn't necessarily match up. Dallas absolutely doesn't match up. They just don't have the wherewithal.

They don't have enough players. You know, Boston's doing this five out, spread the floor. There's nothing they can do. They can beat Mavericks off the dribble, set up easy jumpers. I mean, it just, it wasn't, you know, just throw out game four. Okay, so a team comes out, Boston comes out flat. All these games, I felt like I was watching a champion, team and a team that could have lost in the second round of the Western playoffs.

I think, and it's not a shot at Dallas, but they didn't look close. This was not, I mean, there was no drama tonight. Eight minutes into the game, it's over. Everybody for the Celtics, they were playing like it was, you know, it had sort of a regular season feel. Everybody was loose. Everybody was confident. It's not a knock.

It's just this game did not feel like a finals game. It felt like a, a, a, a, first round game, Celtics were a heavy favorite, took an early lead. Like, it didn't feel like a finals game. So I thought, you know, Tatum's in these kind of moments, he's such a beautiful player. You know, he's playing with confidence like he's playing the Orlando Magic on a Friday night. He was playing at a different level. Yeah, I think the Celtics team is the rightful champion this year. I think they have a great claim to be remembered as the best team. Like, we can talk about Denver and do I think Denver would have matched up?

better with Boston, of course. But the reality is, is I don't think any team had a clear cut case, like, oh, if Boston faced these guys, they were going to lose. Even with Denver, you know, they won in the two regular season matchups, but one of the specific things that this Boston team does extremely well is spread you out and attack your weak points. And Denver did have some slow-footed guys, guys like Jamal Mary Nicole Yokic and Michael Porter Jr. Boston did not shoot well in either regular season game against the Nuggets. And so I even think, that series was a lot more up in the air than people realized. And those were pressure-packed games.

There was a lot of talk. This was a finals preview. And Boston didn't shoot particularly well. So that's a classic. That's the kind of game that we have criticized Tadem for, a big game. Everybody knows it going in. And Boston doesn't shoot particularly well. So it's this series, I felt by the second quarter of game two, I'm like, oh, this

a problem. Like, this isn't a good matchup. This series is over. Didn't you? No, I totally agree. I thought that Dallas was in, really in some deep shit on both ends of the floor in the sense that they could not contain the basketball. They were in rotation constantly. And on the other end of the floor, they could not get Boston in rotation. There was nothing they could do that made Boston overreact to anything that they were doing. And again, like that, that's kind of like when I look back at this Boston team. I think, you know, you and I came into this season viewing it kind of like a three team top tier was basically Denver, Boston, Milwaukee. And we found out pretty quickly off the top, like actually Milwaukee's not very good for all the reasons we've discussed. And it just, it kind of felt like a two-team race for

most of the season. And Boston survived, Denver didn't. I thought like, you know, one of the things I want to give Boston credit for because talent does not always win in the NBA. It does a lot of the time, but it does not always win in the NBA. It's about the team that can play the best basketball on both ends of the floor. And so one of the things I want to give this Boston team credit for is, even though they had an overwhelming talent advantage in every matchup, it felt like they played to their capability a lot in this playoff run. That was what was infuriating about them at times in the regular season.

All the criticism of Missoula Ball. Missoula Ball, it wasn't like it was the way the Celtics were playing it. They were taking a lot of bad shots. They weren't being deliberate about their spacing and driving and kicking for great looks. They were playing some sloppy basketball from time to time. And they dropped some games. They shouldn't have won't. Or they shouldn't a loss.

I want to say they were like two and four against the top four seeds in the Western Conference. It was actually it was it was pretty bad. They were pretty bad against the good teams at the top of the West during the regular season. And a big part of that was they were just kind of playing beneath their potential. To their credit in this postseason run, I thought they had changed. achieved a level of defensive intensity. I did not see from them in the last two seasons. I thought that they guarded Dallas extremely well. I know that you've got a stat. You're going to tell us about Dallas is scoring later. But like I thought they defended extremely well. And on the other end of

the floor, Tatum and Brown embraced their roles as driving kick guys to get the defense and rotation. They played a great team brand of basketball. It was fun to watch. I'll tell you this, Colin, there were times during the regular season where I hated watching Boston. Because they would just dribble up the floor and shoot a three without even like getting a paint touch. And they played a fun brand of basketball in this finals. I enjoyed watching them. Yeah. So let's just, let's just attack the Jason Tatum thing.

So, you know, the Boston fans have amnesia. So Tatum's probably going to win. I think Jalen Brown was the more consistent player in the series. Tatum had 16 points in game one, couldn't shoot, 18 points in game two, played well in game three. But Jalen Brown in game three had 30 points, more rebounds and more assist than Tatum and was just three games through the series, Brown was the alpha. That's not disputable. Game four, Celtics blown out.

Tatum plays better tonight. But tonight was no pressure. Like, the game was over late first. Early second quarter, the series is over. I've never questioned Tatum in games like tonight. I've never questioned Tatum's talent. But in the first three games of this series, especially the first two, when you're establishing the series.

Jaylen Brown was clearly the best player of Boston had. That is indisputable. Those are pressure games. Tonight's, you know, tonight's a route. Tonight's one of those games we all played in high school. Maybe you didn't, where you're like, at halftime, you're like, I don't really need to play. We're down my 28. I don't really need to play.

Like, it was a blowout. I mean, I'm looking at my notes here. First quarter, Mabbs implode late in the quarter, down 10. Second quarter, this isn't close. Celtics throwing bodies at Luca. Five guys in the floor. All can shoot. 60-42.

Duncan, Derek White, three. Ugly. Pritchard three. Like, this thing was over midway through the second quarter. And Rory McElroy missed a putt on Sunday at the U.S. Open late. He didn't miss putts on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday early. Even in the U.S. Open, putts late or not putts early.

Tonight's game is a pressureless game once you're up by 20. I mean, the game's over at halftime. And Tatum played very loose. He's a beautiful player. If he wins MVP, I'm totally happy for Jason Tatum. But let's be honest. In the first two games, first three, you know, the tone setters, Jalen Brown was the guy for the Celtics.

And he also won Eastern Conference MVP. He was the better player in that series. It's not a knock on Tatum. But he is a player that in really tone-setting games, he leaves you wanting a little bit. Tonight was Lucy Goosey rolling downhill. That's all I'm saying. It's not a knock. If he wins it, I had the Seltings since six.

I've said he's somewhere between the fifth and eighth best player. I'm good. I'm not a hater. But like, it's amnesia to say, oh, MVP of the series. Like, let's go back to the first three games. It wasn't close. that's all I'll actually take it to put it a little bit more aggressively. Like there wasn't a single moment in this entire playoff run where Boston was under any sort of pressure at all whatsoever.

They played three bad teams in the Eastern Conference and then they played probably the best matchup for them out of the West. And so that specifically just avoids any of like the real drama that you think of when you think about historical finals MVP's, you think of drama. You think of pivotal games. And Jason, when we have questions about Tatum, it's never talent. It's moments. It's intensity. It's the Kobe MJ shits tied 86 all. So this series just didn't have any of that stuff.

No, I agree. And like, as far as the finals MVP thing goes, like, I think I personally would be okay with either of them getting it. And the case for Tatum is like, I like it when the history books tell the story of that team. And to me, even though Jalen Brown played better than Jason Tatum over the course of this playoff run, I thought Tatum was the best player on the team for the entirety of the season. Like I thought Tatum was the great. And so if I look back and I, if I look back at the Wikipedia page and it says 2024 NBA champion, the Boston Celtics, Jason Tatum, finals MVP, I'm cool with that. But he was the best player in the series one game out of five tries. In addition to that,

In addition to that, I thought Jalen Brown had the biggest pivotal shots of the series. In that late game run from Dallas in Game 2, he had the driving left-handed layup over Maxi Klieba. In game three, when it was in crunch time, they're late, he hit those two massive fadeaway mid-range jump shots that kind of iced the game. I thought he had the most iconic plays of the series. I thought those two dunks, those two driving one-handed monster slams he had were like the iconic dunks of the series. And so for me, like, I'm cool with Jason Tatum winning the award. Yeah. But I believe Jalen Brown observes it.

And I just got the text message from our guy, Josh. Jalen Brown has won finals MVP. What do you have to say about that? Well, I think he was the better player consistently. I think your point's the best one. All the big shots. You know, and I do think the first two games of the series, those are tone setters. Like, like, you mean, if Dallas wins one of those games, you lose home court advantage.

And we said both of us said coming into the series. series. The pressure was all on Boston. So winning those first two games at home was not just, hey, we protected home. It kind of made a statement. And in both games, if not for a brief Dallas run, they had a really good fourth quarter, if I recall, in game two. Boston was clearly the better team. So the tone-setting games here were games one and two. And Jalen Brown was clearly the best player. And so I think they got it right. It's nothing, you know, I can love a player, but not love a series. I mean, remember when the meta hit the game winner in game seven for the Lakers over the Celtics? Kobe was awful in game seven. He was just, just couldn't hit anything.

Kobe's so remarkable. He just had a horrible night. We got to be honest about that stuff. And so I credit the people who voted on this because I thought Jatim, Jalen Brown, Eastern Conference Finals and Finals, was the better player. Tatum, to your point, on a macro level, was the best Celtic all year. I think that's absolutely true. And two things can be simultaneously true. Yeah, exactly. And as far as the Jalen Brown piece goes,

I really only have a problem with the non-superstar finals MVP when we get into a box score watching and we start giving it to like a role player. Like that was the travesty. Yeah. Of the 2015 warriors. Like, Steph Curry's getting blitzed all game and Andre Aguador is getting wide open dunks and corner threes because Steph's getting blitzed and all.

And a Cavs team with one star, Andre Guadala held LeBrona for shooting percentage. And then the voters end up suddenly giving the award to Andre Godala. And I'm like, what are we doing here? But this is not what happened here. Like we've discussed multiple times throughout the series. Jalen Brown is playing at a level that is similar to Jason Tatum's.

Like, he is ascending. And, you know, one of the things that I think is fascinating about that is you and I talked in the, after the Eastern Conference Finals last year, we talked about should they look into trading Jalen Brown? And one of the things I said, if you remember, was I said, they have a better chance of Jalen Brown improving into what they need than they do to try to flip a player of his caliber into a better player, which was obviously a long shot. risky shot. And so to Boston's credit, they just kind of like let these guys play through their

lumps. And here comes Jalen Brown going from flat out embarrassing against Miami last year. He was bad against Miami last year to being the Eastern Conference Finals MVP and the NBA Finals MVP. And one other thing I wanted to say before I kick it back to you, this is what scares me about the Tatum piece moving forward. He, he's not as bad offensively as he showed in this playoff front. There's this thing. There's this thing that can happen in basketball. I don't have an explanation for it. This is all part of that whole basketball is more art than science thing. But Tatum's been in one hell of a shooting slump in this postseason. He's been getting like eight tenths of a point per jump shot when he's typically a solid 20% better than that. And one of the

things, one of the things to keep in mind there is like Boston's going to be back next year. And Tatum's probably not going to shoot this poorly. And so like even though Tatum's a, or Jalen Brown's a deserving MVP, like, Tatum's not going anywhere, and he's going to be here leading this charge next year. And, like, one of the nice things, too, is his demeanor is the kind of guy that doesn't take this sort of thing personally. And so I'm kind of happy for him both in that regard. Yeah.

I want to pivot a little bit, though, to Kyrie Irving, and I thought about this. So, you know, again, basketball is the artist sport. It's international soccer. It does matter how you play, not just that you score. And Messies, Pele, just they're artists. and that there's absolute value in that. And same in basketball. Dr. Jay, stylistically, magic was cooler than bird.

Michael Jordan was great looking, well-dressed, super fun. You know, everything about MJ just felt big. Duncan was boring. And there's a reason, you know, history's been kind of cruel to Tim Duncan, who's better than anybody wants to acknowledge, and nobody except people in San Antonio will acknowledge how dominating he was. He didn't have a lot of style. But Kyrie Irving played eight games at Duke, no impact, was kind of a bust pre-Lebron in Cleveland.

Like couldn't stay healthy, nobody liked him. Goes to Boston doesn't work. Brooklyn, uh-uh. First, early in Dallas, you kind of weren't sure. And then he has this playoff run and we're all like, this is great. So take out a couple of years with LeBron in his prime. LeBron made everybody look great, everybody. And Kyrie bailed on that.

In this great run, a no-show in the finals, and all over the map offensively, he had bad, bad shooting nights. I'm not giving you much in rebounding, assists, and defense. Like, he needs to shoot well. See, not Jalen Brown, where you can tell me he's four for 14, and he'd have eight rebound, seven assists, and, you know, play the hell out of the defensive end.

That's not what Kyrie is. You need him to shoot. So, you know, I look at Kyrie and I understand the finishing package. It's artistry. It's beautiful. No dispute. But even this playoff run, like, you know, Anthony Davis gets criticized sometimes for being inconsistent, not defensively.

I get a star. And offensively, three out of four nights, I know what I get. Like, I know LeBron loves Kyrie. A.D. is a more consistent star player. Jalen Brown's a better basketball player. I thought Kyrie in these playoffs, his highs are so high, Jason, you can't take your eyes off. It's a firework show. It's awe-inspiring.

It's the singer hitting the highest note. But, man, he throws out some stinkers. He was invisible for portions of this game. He didn't score in the first quarter. Like the most important quarter of the season for the Mabbs, he didn't do anything. There's my, there's my Kyrie take that his, his aesthetic beauty overshadows a lot of nights where he gives you, if he's not shooting well, he doesn't give you anything else at all. Yeah, pretty consistently in my player rankings, I've had them right around that 20 spot when I'm, when I'm ranking players. I'm generally higher on Kyrie than, than some people.

there's a there's a pretty substantial anti-Kairi coalition out there for obvious reasons because of his off-court stuff and like one of one of the things with with uh with this particular team that I look at is like I remember going into the series there were people saying like oh what if what if what if luke and kairi are the two best players in the series and I'm like whoa hold on like let's let's chill out like i like kairi he's got this incredible upside which is what you're referring to which is the fireworks show but what he is is a average to slightly above average kind of guard defender when he's playing hard, but he had a pretty bad defensive series. He is a guy that is a pull-up jump shooter. And so guess what happens with pull-up jump shooters?

Sometimes they go in. Sometimes they don't. And that to me is like, there's like one pull-up jump shooter in NBA history who's just been like reliably great in the postseason. That's Steph Curry. You know what I mean? All the other guys, they're the freaky athletes that can get to the rim consistently and dominate the game physically in some way, shape, or form, right? And so, honestly, like, because this is one of my big takeaways from Dallas. And, like, I've been kind of feeling this way since the beginning of the series. But I don't think this Dallas Maverick's team is close. And you kind of mentioned this in your opening piece.

I don't either. I don't either. Yeah, I don't think they're close. I think that they caught some really favorable matchups out in the Western Con. I think they're good. I think there was a tier of teams beneath Denver where all the West was. And they managed to kind of weave their way through that with some favorable matchups, right? But like, I think Denver would have beaten them pretty soundly in the

Western Conference Finals. I think they would have gotten them. So it's 2024. And let's talk about something really, really important. If you're ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan to America's largest injury law firm. And they are there for you. Over 100 offices nationwide. Think about that. More than 1,000 lawyers with over 20 billion, that's a B, 20 billion dollars recovered, for over 500,000 clients. Things happen in life unexpectedly. Submitting an injury claim with Morgan and Morgan is really, really easy. Like winning in the NFL is hard. We know that quarterbacking in the NFL is hard. Submitting a claim is easy. You're ever injured? Check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to for the people.com slash colon or dial pound

law from your cell phone. Pretty easy. That's for the people.com slash colon or pound law, pound 529 from your cell. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for you to get a full and fair compensation if there's an unexpected accident in your life. This is a paid advertisement. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends, stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court,

licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shake my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world

that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me.

I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope I'm a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice, known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary.

Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrat, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1020,

And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The other thing we have to admit, Jason, is because of Luca's ball usage, I felt like he wasn't healthy for the last two series. He looked, he looked fatigued. He looked beat up. So, again, when Kyrie's not delivering, it becomes very Luca dominant. I thought he looked, I thought you were getting about 80% of Luca in this finals. And some of that's just when you're the guy and you're, it's little Jalen Brunson. It's like, Jalen's great. but there are limitations to, you know, when Jalen went on that 40-point run, you're like, this isn't going to end well.

Like, he's just, you can't, you can't be that dominant. You have to be able to, you know, and that's why the Celtics work is that Tatum wasn't good in the first two games. He and Brown were both good in game three. Tonight, Tatum was superior. I mean, there were nights that Derek White, I mean, Pritchard before the half. Like, it's symphonic watching Boston. They're just handing the baton off.

man, Luca, he had that baton out multiple times and nobody grabbed it. And I thought he looked, and that's, I agree with you. OKC's only getting better. Denver's already favored. Boston's not getting significantly worse. Sixers had. And by the way, keep your eye on what Houston's doing. They had a stretch this year.

We were like, uh-oh, you know, they're probably a veteran away. So listen, we've seen this before. It's like in the NFL, the loser of the Super Bowl, like most of the time doesn't fare well. Like this felt like a magical moment in time for Dallas. But there's some real flaws here. We would both acknowledge that. It is too Luca dependent. That's what it feels.

It does feel like that Cavs team that was really very LeBron dependent, played with great energy, if you remember. Zilgouskas, I mean, they played with tremendous energy. LeBron was captivating. they had streaky shooters on the wing, but then you watched them against San Antonio, and you're like, all right, they, you know, five of the best six players are all spurs.

And that's how I felt in this series. Yeah, one of the things that I find fascinating, and I'm actually curious to get your take on this. Like, one of the things that is hard to do in a situation like this after you have a successful postseason run is to be realistic about how far you are away. And so, for instance, Lakers fans last year, it's like, we made the Western Conference Finals. like, okay, well, like Golden State has always struggled against big athletic teams.

That was a pretty favorable matchup for you. And then also that Memphis team, young John Morant driving into Anthony Davis all series was obviously not going to work. So it's like you caught a couple of favorable matchups. Then you ran into a real championship level team in Denver and you got your ass kicked. So you're not close, right? Right. So when I look at the Dallas piece, this is what I think about.

Like when the circumstances are favorable, meaning like, when Luca has obvious mismatches he can pick at the entire series, and then on the other end of the floor, when they can really load up the strong side and keep their rim protectors at the rim and hide Luca on the opposite end of the floor, they can get stops. But where I get concerned is how many times in NBA history

have we seen a team led by two stars that are both, at least combining for two bad defensive players that go win the title? It's exceedingly rare. And so one of the things that I wonder, I shouldn't say exceedingly rare, I can't think of one. It's never happened. Like I would say, I would even say, like the case would be, oh, what about Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokich, which I understand. But the flip side there is like even the two of them were not this type of like Yokic was a dominant

defensive rebounder who could actually do some stuff in pick and roll coverages defensively. And Jamal Murray did his job. And he's bigger. Yeah. Jamal Murray's bigger than Kyrie. They also had an elite defender right off that in Gordon. So they had, yeah, I mean, they accentuated. Like, you know, it's like the Mavericks or like the Warriors.

They hid Steph, Iguodala, Clay. You can get away with your star not being an elite defender, but you have to have elements. You have to have size, Yokic, athleticism, Gordon. Like, that's not what this Dallas team is. It's their two stars are, Luca is disengaged a lot defensively. Yeah, he was terrible in four of the five games of the series, defensively. I thought he was bad again tonight. They were just bringing him up into the ball screen.

He would just kind of stand around and no man's land, your holiday, he'd slip out of it. He'd get a layup. They'd get him on a, they're at the end of the first half, just like game two. They just attacked him in switches time and time and time again and scored

every single time. Like, it's a real issue. And so, let me just pitch it back to you like this. Is the version of a Luca Donchich led team that wins a title one day? Is that version of that team constructed around Luca and then a secondary star that is an, elite athlete that can impact the game more with his physical tools rather than with his

skill. Because I wonder, I wonder if this Dallas team is always going to be the kind of team that can beat certain matchups, but will always struggle against teams that can spread them out, just simply because that's just two, way too weak points in their defense. Do you think that that's what the direction they're going to have to go eventually? I think literally a perfect player for Luca is Paul George. Probably privately doesn't want the final shot. Luca does. Excellent defender, long, willing, can give you 30 in non-pressure situations, could really have nights where Luca can almost take a back seat. But in the big moments, you know, Paul sometimes takes weird shots or bad shots. Luca doesn't. Like, this is one of these things. It's a better story than a team.

Kyrie's not the fit, a poor defensive player who's hot and cold and needs the ball. That's not the fit. The fit is a long wing defender who can score 30, but like a Pippin, has no problem letting the guy, letting the man shoot. Paul's always been a, you know, Paul can hit the big shot, but it's like he can also back away from it. He's not a selfish player. So it's, it's, Paul George is one of those guys. He kind of works with everybody. I think, you know, Paul's gotten a bad rap. I mean, he kind of fits everywhere. You go back to those Miami Heat series. Paul was working with Roy Hibbert, a non-score, George Hill, you know, Frank Vogel, who loved Biggs, not, you know, got guards. They give, they give Miami Wade and Bosch and Badier and LeBron. They gave him troubles. Those were really good series. So I just think it's, one of those, you know, Kyrie, Luca, the movie poster is better than the movie. I think they need a different star. And this is something I was told years ago by a GM like 20 years ago. He said,

it's not about the star having a star in the league. There's a lot of them. It's the right star. And then once you get that star, the Warriors were brilliant. Here's Steph's deficiencies. Let's just layer it and protect him. It's like hockey. Our great score is a finesse player. Let's protect him. You have to protect. You don't. You don't. not to protect Tatum. You have to augment some offensive, you know, production. Porzingis, more scores. You don't have to protect Tatum. You have to protect Luca defensively. Like, I've said this. He's a much better Carmelo Anthony. He's much better, but disengaged defensively, not sure he's in great shape. You know, it's kind of, he's the sun, everything revolves around

it sort of. So I'm not anti-Luca, but I don't see him being part of a dynasty. I just think he's a he's a meteor. He just don't see stuff like this in the history of basketball, but all stars are not equal. Like, Duncan is exactly what you want your star to be kind of. Boring, does everything well, doesn't have to take the final shot. In the end, sacrifice salary. Like, Duncan's never got the respect. Like, he literally did every. well except handle the ball. And what did they put around him? Parker, Manu, you know, ball handlers. So I just think Lucas spectacular, but there is, you have to protect him more than anybody wants to acknowledge. I guess that's my take. Yeah, again, it's about acknowledging that you're not

close. And so I think there's a bunch of different things that they have to address. The first piece is Luca specifically, and we talked about this a lot after game three, has to get in better shape, has to make a commitment to the defensive end. Like I want to see Luca come in next year. and look different physically, because this is year after year that this has been an issue and that he's not made any sort of attempt to address. So that's the first piece of it. The second piece of it is we've seen this consistently with Dallas. They've kept trying to build the same team around him because we saw this with Brunson, with Brunson and Dorian Finney Smith and that team that went to the Western Conference finals two years ago. Like they've

built a team around two shot creators and then play finishers. And like just like what happened, against the Warriors in 2022. Eventually, they're like, actually, we're just kind of fine with Luca taking these, you know, tough contested two-point jump shots. His stepback three just isn't reliable enough. Like, once again, this entire postseason run, he just could knock it down at a high enough rate. Like, there's a lot of, like, games where he has 30 points on 27 shots and you're like,

this isn't actually something that's causing problems for the, for the opposing team. And so, like, I look at it too, like, one of the things I like about doing something, like going after a Paul George or more of like a. skilled, like a multi-talented forward is it makes for less redundancy. It makes it so that you can, like it makes you a different type of team to deal with on a possession by possession basis. Because what happens is when you lean on the Kyrie thing, it's like, Kyrie has a rough series. Suddenly he doesn't bring anything else to the table. And now you look severely limited. And so I think, I think in general, they've just got to have kind of like this self-awareness

to acknowledge that they're not close and to make these structural changes. But one of the problems, Colin, is I don't think they're going to. I think they're going to run it right back and be like, oh, Derek lively is going to lead us to the Promiseland next year. He's going to get way better. And you know what? I think they're going to lose in like the first or second round next year in a jam-packed Western Conference when they catch an unfortunate matchup. Let's go back to the Celtics. Very deserving.

Don't forget they had a dominant record. They lost to Denver, but they had a dominant record against the West, even more dominant against the East, flushed through the Eastern Conference playoffs and the final. So, you know, there are these teams, too, that, you know, we're so used to dynasties in the NBA. I was talking to Chris Broussard today. We were talking about teams that won a championship that weren't a dynasty, but they were great teams. And one of the first ones was the Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Wille Chamberlain.

Remember that 33-game winning Shriek Laker team that, I think, beat the Knicks and won a championship. Now, they didn't reel off a lot of them. But in a singular season, that was an older will. that's one of the greatest teams of all time. There was a 76ers team that had Moses Malone joined Julius Irving, and they were kind of missing a dominating interior scoring presence. And for a year or two, Jesus, I remember those sixers well. Like Malone was, it's just hard to explain.

Moses Malone, if you ever saw him play, nobody discusses him. He was as dominating a rebounder as I've ever seen in the history of basketball with Dr. Jay and good guard play. And I think Boston falls into that group. So right now, like we thought Denver was going to run off two or three, Boston in a single season like that West Goodrich Will team or the Moses Malone Dr. J team for a season, lightning in a bottle, health, spectacular, you know, just flush through the playoffs. The question will become, they will play with a champion swagger next year.

they probably won't be as relentless in the regular season. This is, you know, kind of predictable. They'll be, you know, they'll have their little swoons and won't be. But I do think there's a chance. It's a back-to-back championship because cross your fingers on poor Zingas's health. You know, they're bringing the guys back. You'll play with more confidence. Tatum comes into a season like, okay, I got, I got it.

I got my money. I got my title. I think it does take pressure. I think it was building. You and I said this. This was Celtics had to win this. After that Warriors final where they came home and kind of laid an egg emotionally, they had to play well in this series. I thought by second quarter game, too, it was like, this is a mismatch.

But I think next year you'll see a – this goes down to me as a in moment in time, a great team in a great moment. Too good not to win a championship, but at times too weird to be a dynasty. I mean, Jalen Brown wins the MVP in the average 20 a game. He didn't ever 30. He didn't ever's 28. He averts 20, 21 a game and was the MVP for the second straight series. So historically, can we acknowledge they're a little bit of an odd great team. Like, yeah, yeah.

They're absolutely weird. I mean, like, when we think about the, when we list the all-time great teams in NBA history, we think like 2017 Warriors, 2013, he. you know, teams like the, the 2001 Lakers, the 1996 Bulls, right? The 1986 Celtics, like the 1987 Lakers.

We think of these teams, and every single one of them is led by one of the five best players in NBA history. In my opinion, Steph Curry is the fifth best perimeter player that's played since 1980. Like, I think he's right up there with Bird and Magic and that

tier. So like these, it's just funky to see a team that is as dominant as the Celtics have been. But I think one of the things, too, is this kind of stuff bears out in time. Like, you know what? Celtics fans, they're going to want a certain amount of, like, credit for being dominant. And like, here's the thing. Like, you beat the, you beat the calves, the heat without Jimmy Butler, the Pacers, and the maps.

So like, like, I'm not trying to, like, but one of the things with NBA history, because, like, people said this about the Nuggets last year. Now, I thought the Nuggets run was a little underrated because they went through LeBron and AD. and they went through Katie and Devin Booker and they went through Jimmy Butler and Bam at a bio. I actually thought that Nuggets team played some tough opponents. But like everyone was like, oh, Denver had an easier path. Well, guess what happened this year? They had to play a really tough team in the second round.

They lost. So NBA history has a chance, has a kind of like a habit of working these sorts of things out. Like next year, they're probably going to have to play a Milwaukee in a playoff series or a healthy Knicks team or a team like Denver out of the Western Conference or maybe what if Oklahoma City makes some big trade this summer and they end up going to the finals and it ends up being like NBA history is a kind of a habit of working these things out. Everything about how this team is remembered is going to be about the big picture. So for instance, if they lose, if they lose next year, you're going to zoom out on a three year window here and you're going to be like embarrassing loss against the heat in the conference finals beat four mediocre teams then lost the following year. people will write the story of that Celtics team as an underachieving overly talented team.

But if they go out next year and they beat better teams on their way to the Larry O'Brien, people will zoom out and be like, this is an all-time great team. So, like that's the thing. Like you're going to get another crack at the table next year. It's like Jason Tatum said, got to do it again next year. Go ahead, do it, and it'll shut everybody up. Like, these things get worked out with wins. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, this Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything, he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, IZAD, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Joe Dono. you might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice

and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary.

Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers.

We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.

This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I think a team to keep your eye on is the Knicks. I think one of the great things, if you're a Knicks fan, because they don't match up from an offensive perspective.

They just don't have that many guys who can catch it and shoot it and ball handle and pass. One of the things that's great about the Celtics winning, if you're a Knicks fan, it does force you some urgency. Like, guys, we can't make a tweak. We're not a tweak away from beating Boston. Like, we got to go out and get guys, like McAil Bridges and another score. Boston really puts pressure on Eastern teams.

It's one thing if you're a Western team and you lose to Boston in the finals. You got to the finals, but you're not getting past Boston in New York with a tweak. You're just not. You know, even Miami, Bam and Butler, you know, Butler will probably be banged up by the time, you know, if he's in Miami Heat. They need another, not Tyler Hero. They need another player. So it's my, this is the good thing.

If you're a Miami fan or a Knicks fan or a Sixers fan, this is like, guys, this wasn't competitive. Like this, they dis, I mean, how many blowouts? They had like 13 blowout wins. It's like tweaking is not beating. Nobody in the east has Yokic. Okay. you don't have Yokic.

So tweaking's not going to do it. And I think that's sort of the advantage. I say this in sports all the time. The great thing about Harbaught in Michigan, for a Buckeye fan, it puts pressure on going and getting Chip Kelly as an offensive coordinator. It's like they're pushing us around three years in a row. You want your rival to be viable because it puts pressure on your owner and your front office.

And so I'm watching this game tonight, and I'm thinking if I'm a Knicks fan, you may hate Boston, but your front office, these are smart people now in New York running that franchise, you've got to bring them McAil Bridges on and another guy that can drop 20. DeFigenzo has become a great catch-and-shoot guy. Brunson's going to give you 28. McHale Bridges could give you 24, and I've got to get somebody better than Mitchell Robinson in the Post that can give me offense. So that's the upside for the Eastern Conference teams is I think Darry,

the Knicks, you know, Indiana if they can get somebody, the pressure's on. You've got to add multiple pieces over the next couple years to beat these guys. And aggression is going to be the key. Because again, like, how did Boston do this? They did this by trading for Drew Holiday and Christop's Porzenghis. It's like Brad Stevens just hit two massive home run. I went back and looked at that trade and saw that they ended up like netting two first round picks in the Porzingis trade. And I'm like, oh man, like anybody could have had him. And then Boston went and got him. And then, you know, like even looking at Denver, it's like they went and got KCP. They went and got Aaron

Gordon. Those are two like slam dunk moves to surround Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. and Nicole Yokic. They just, that aggression is the big piece there. Even going back to 2021, they won after they traded for Drew Holiday. The Bucks did. They traded for Drew Holiday. They went and they won the title. And so like keep an eye on those aggressive teams the summer, the teams that add talent. There are a lot of young teams in the NBA right now that are like this close to becoming great. That Thunder team, that Orlando Magic team is probably like two years away, but they're going to be really, really good. You mentioned the Pacers.

If they make maybe one more addition this offseason, they could be in the mix. The Knicks are obviously going to be aggressive. I mentioned Memphis earlier. Like Memphis, this kid, Gigi Jackson that they have on the wing is awesome that they discovered this year. He like slots perfectly between John Morant, Desmond Bain. They're going to have Jared Jackson coming back. They're going to have a big look.

They're going to go get a center and they're going to have a massive front line that can contend with Denver as long as John Morant can like stay healthy and available for his team. I think they could be really good. The league is just, like this Celtics team is kind of settling right in this nice little opening here where all the older teams are kind of falling apart and all the younger teams are not quite there yet and they're having a lot of success as a result. Jason Timp, hoops tonight, been a blast. NBA finals. It's in the books. The Celtics, too good as we said, to not win a finals. It was this year. Really. It's got a LeBron

Caves, Duncan Spurs feel to it where you kind of knew early on, you know, four or five of the top six players felt like they were all in Boston. They also, you know, I wrote this down in my notes. When Boston in the third quarter, when they're playing collaborative basketball, it's beautiful. They are, I mean, it is like a, it's almost like they're playing, and when they're playing comfortably and in this series they were, it's loose. I mean, they are. I mean, they are. Really, like those warrior teams, even with KD and Clay and Steph, you know, guys that shoot a lot, they were pretty. That was really beautiful basketball. The Celtics had moments tonight, and in this series, you're like, that's how to play basketball.

That's just drive, pitch, high IQ, everybody fits, no animosity. All starts with Tatum, who's sort of, you know, he's the ultimate team guy. but Boston, a confident Boston looks like a champion. And they were never put in a position to question themselves in this series or in the playoffs. A confident Celtic team like tonight, this series, that looks like what an NBA champion does. Yeah, they played a fun brand of basketball. I enjoyed watching them. Colin, this has been another fun postseason in the books.

I'm sure we'll touch base at some point during free agency, but I always enjoy talking basketball with you during the finals. we're going to call it tonight, guys. This NBA finals game 5 instant reaction was brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Unlimited 1.5% cashback is just the beginning. Cashback 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% at drugstores, 5% at Chase Travel, and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? All right, everybody, we will be back tomorrow to get a little bit deeper into some of the NBA final stories,

storylines, and then we're turning our attention to the draft and free agency because the NBA calendar never ends. As always, I sincerely appreciate it. you guys for supporting me and Colin and the volume as well as our channels that we've been trying to grow. We appreciate you guys and we will see you tomorrow. The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Idle help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam?

It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was partying. just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven,

Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret

history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From IHeart Podcasts, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America. apart. This is for Vietnam. They're pouring patril all over here.

Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests, like Amelia Clark. When, like, young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? You'd rather be disappointed in. Do that.

David O'Yello. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, Gaiton Madarazzo from Stranger Things, Tena Mongeu, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.