The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Jordan Love Reality, CP3/Warriors + Porzingis/Celtics Fits, Draft Reaction w/ Jason Timpf

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

First Colin explains why a lack of Jordan Love social media highlights is concerning. Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf joins Colin to discuss why the Suns are hanging on to DeAndre Ayton, if CP3 is a bad fit for the Warriors, why Kristaps Porzingis doesn’t fix the Celtics biggest problem, if the Lakers 1st round pick Jalen Hood-Schifino can contribute meaningful minutes, and if young Euro stars will continue to dominate American born stars.  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Herd #Volume #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The volume. Hi, everybody. It's either the Sunday night podcast, which you can catch on the volume YouTube channel or the Monday morning podcast, either one. This is actually one of my favorite times of the year because after the NBA championship is rendered, there's the NBA draft, then you have NBA free agency, and then you eventually move into the NFL camps. But it's one of the rare sort of eight-week moments. I think I only have one, maybe two.

No, it's probably one. This is it. I get about three weeks after the Super Bowl, where I don't have to, on a nightly basis, sit and watch sports. I get about eight weeks now where I'll watch, I watch the Mets meltdown against the Phillies yesterday, a complete meltdown. by the Mets bullpen.

They don't do anything particularly well. Buck Shawalter is apparently now, no longer a genius. He's in trouble. But I get about eight weeks where I don't have to, you know, race home at night and sit in front of a TV. So I kind of bounce around and watch a lot of different stuff. I can watch United States men's national team against Jamaica. I can watch a baseball game.

The Mets bullpen melting down. There's a little bit of a freedom that I can kind of watch what I want to watch. There's not a lot of things that are major topics right now. now as we await a couple of NBA potential trades to happen. I also like this time of the year because I start reading Phil Steele, my college football books, my NFL books, and I get ready for the season. I do have a little bit of a gym on the Green Bay Packers. So through the years, I've had, you know, multiple people that were on the Packers. I think you know that I know Jeff Saturday well, Mercedes-Lewis.

I know Aaron Jones. but there's four or five other packers, some with a team, some not, that I have not brought on my show, but I have an ability to get a hold of them through people. And so I had an interesting discussion yesterday, yesterday being Saturday, because I'm taping this on Sunday, with a, I won't tell you if it's a former packer or a current packer, but it's somebody on the offensive side of the ball. And I just asked the question. I said, hey, what do you expect from Jordan Love?

The organization went heavy into offense this draft. They went and got a couple of tight ends. One I really like, Musgrave out of Oregon State. And then I think three different wide receivers and a running back. So the organization, which is always really, first round once again, was an and an outside linebacker from Iowa. But they really loaded up on young offensive people. And I think when you consider Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs,

from last year wide receivers, along with this draft class, you know, the feeling in Green Bay is we're going to grow with Jordan Love here. He's going to have people of his age that he can sort of grow with. The question becomes, how patient will they be? So somebody that is connected to the Packers, I won't say if they're a current or a former Packer, I asked about Jordan Love. And his takeaway is, in three years, I've yet to see a wow moment.

there are no wow moments. So doesn't mean he's a bust. Doesn't mean it won't work. But generally, if you look at the great quarterbacks over the last 25 years, there's a wow somewhere. It's arm. It's movement. It's pre-snap.

Now, some of you would say, did Eli Manning have a lot of wow? Well, Eli Manning's two biggest throws in the Super Bowl, Mario Manningham, into a small bread box. and David Tyree were both wow moments when he escaped pressure. Remember that? Got free through it downfield. So Eli Manning had plenty of wild throws and wild moments, two of note in the Super Bowl. But it was an interesting comment. It wasn't necessarily criticizing him, but he said, you know, I don't see the wow stuff. And generally, now, Brock Purdy may not give you wow stuff. Brock Pretty was the last guy drafted in the seventh round for the 49ers. The Packers moved up for Jordan Love.

if you move up for Jordan Love, there's got to be some wow, right? That's what a first round picks about. I don't care if it's a rush end or running back a wide receiver. The difference between the first and a fifth round guy is the wow, right? That's why they move up. They do something that's consistently high end or spectacular. So it was just an interesting comment from that person that hasn't really seen in three years a wow moment. So here's where I'll say about Jordan Love, we really don't know.

I have been, like all of you, if you're a Packer fan or not, hearing the comments from Brian Gugendtunc to the GM, David Boktiari, other teammates, there's been a lot of be patient. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. That leads me to believe that they're going really, really slow and they have concerns. I've said this.

When Aaron left, my takeaway was, all right, young quarterback, he's going to work with these young guys. We don't know anything. I also think that if something, had been spectacular, the video would get out. And I remember Patrick Mahom's first year in Kansas City. His first camp, he made many spectacular plays, but there was one play in particular when he threw it sidearm into the end zone, beat coverage, and that video leaked out. And that video

leaked out because somebody within the Chiefs wanted that video out. They wanted the fans to understand this is what we have here. I remember Peter Schrager coming to me, multiple sources. Schrager came to me two or three times. It said, they are saying Mahomes is out of this world. So I'm kind of pessimistic on Jordan Love with all the cynicism and the questions, if there was a great piece of video, if there was a great moment, we'd see it, you'd hear about it. Because we all know Aaron leaves Jordan loves team. There's going to be some backlash, right? There's going to be some pushback.

There's loyalties in that locker room now to Aaron Rogers. You know, I've said this for years. Stuff leaks out when somebody wants it out. Right? When nothing gets out, the organization doesn't want it out. Remember when Tua was getting a lot of pushback? Was it a year or two years ago? and suddenly there was these pieces of video out of the Dolphins camp

with perfectly thrown two of bombs down the field. That got out because somebody wanted it out. Four years ago, when the Giants drafted, Dave Gettelman and the GM drafted Daniel Jones with a number six pick, there was a lot of heat on Gettlement and the Giants. It was a reach then, it's a reach now. You started getting in camp these slow motion, Daniel Jones video vignettes suddenly being released and leaked out of the Giants' cam because

Gettlement was getting hammered. The Giants were getting ripped. This is a reach. I swear, I saw six pieces of video. The ball never touched the turf. It never touched the grat. Daniel Jones looked like a combination of Joe Namath and Phil Sims and Eli Manning. It was unbelievable. The best New York quarterbacks ever. That got out because they wanted it out. Two his video got out because they wanted it out. When Trey Lance was struggling with accuracy in practice, it never got out. And so I don't care if it's a grainy piece of film in three years, nothing. Makes me pretty pessimistic. Good news, it's a wonky division. NFC's never been weaker in the last 20 years that I can remember. I mean, I was looking through some NFL magazines and

nobody knows what to do with the NFC South. Saints, Falcons, Bucks, Charlotte, myself included. Derek Carr is the best quarterback. And so most of us, when you look at their defensive personnel, the defensive head coach, kind of feel like they'll just be, in a matter of attrition, they'll just win more games based on a better quarterback and better defensive personnel. But their coach has a 35% winning percentage in his second job in the NFL, Raiders, Saints. So if that's your favorite, good luck.

It's a quarterback coach league. this coach wins 35% of his games, so we'll see. But I'm just watching all these bat signals. The Buffalo Bills on Friday released a bat signal that the owner gave the extension to the GM and head coach and announced it Friday. Why? Because before they get to camp, they want very unhappy wide receiver Stefan Diggs to know this is the GM and more notably Sean McDermott, the head coach's team.

So you're not happy, you're noisy, you're grumbling, just a heads up. We know you signed a contract recently, but the camp and the team goes through Sean McDermott. There's a reason that extension was signed and it was made public, the bat signals. So watch the signals, the news that gets out, the news you think should get out that doesn't get out. Those will be little tells over the next eight weeks. before we head into Labor Day weekend and practice ends, exhibition games are over. Look for the signals. Can't wait.

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for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we got some NBA stuff that's going to probably break this week, and there's little bits and pieces coming out here now. Jason Timph, our guy at Hoops Tonight, we have had so much fun over the last six, seven weeks of NBA playoffs and draft. It's been an absolute blast. and for those who didn't know who Jason was before and if we've possibly introduced Jason to you,

I get so much feedback, maybe more positive feedback on Jason than any single person we have at the volume. And the stuff that trickled out today, I think it was Chris Haynes reported, that the sons have decided DeAndre Aiton, we're going to keep him. My takeaway first is that Vogel's always been known. I mean, Vogel made Roy Hibbert into a nuisance against LeBron James. I mean, Roy Hibbert was a 9, 10 point a game guy and was a big pain in LeBron's butt for several years for the Pacers. I think Vogels, oh, you know, he won a championship. I thought Anthony Davis was a dominating defender.

He likes size. And so my takeaway is we'll see the best DeAndre Aiton of his career with Vogel. What I do worry about, Jason, this is a player now that will get fewer offensive opportunities, perhaps. and he can kind of disengage when he doesn't get looks. So I do think they're a really good basketball team. If you told me that four best players in every team, you know, Denver and Phoenix are right near the top of the NBA. Are you worried at all if they keep him, though, that, you know,

he, for lack of a better word, he's pouted before if he doesn't get looks. I think in all likelihood they tried to trade him. I do think his value is extraordinarily low. I mean, centers in general, they're like the running backs of the NBA, as we all know. And in general, you don't want to spend a ton of money on one unless he's a star. And there was, you know, obviously some suspicion or expectation that DeAndreighton would be that level of player. And it's never really materialized. The tricky thing is, is you absolutely need a center if you're the sons for two reasons.

One, it's the foundational piece in Vogel scheme. He loves to run drop coverage, which involves the big back at the rim. And he asks his guards to chase over the top all the time. So foundationally, Vogel needs a center. But the second part of it is you're going to have to go through Denver at some point. And so you absolutely have to have somebody that can bang with Yokic. The tricky part is the specific type of production they need out of Aiton for Phoenix is all dirty work. You know, obviously there's some stuff with catching in the role and finishing around the rim.

And Aiton's great at that. But you can probably find a player who makes like the mid-level exception who's about 80% as good as him at that stuff. And every bit is good defensively and as a rebounder. And so I'm sure they did look, but I just think it was really difficult for them to find a taker. And that's just the reality of Aiton in this predicament. And so, I mean, you hit the nail in the head. He's going to have to have a good attitude through all of this. And I'm not sure that he's going to.

But they'll have the ability to move him down the line if they need to. But with how talented Aiton is, it makes sense. And I'm sure Vogel behind the scenes has probably been actively pushing to give Aten a chance. Yeah, you know, it's, you know, I've said before, I think the word. star is overrated. Zach Levine's a star. I don't know if he's a winning player. Westbrook's a star.

I'm not sure he's a winning player. Same with John Wall. I think the word I always use is impactful. Are you the kind of player that matters in the playoff series? And I just think if you take the top four players for Denver saying it's Yokic and then it's Murray and then it's a Gordon and then it's Porter. That's a really good for some all with different skills. There is some duplication with Phoenix.

You know, whereas Beal and Booker. you know, they're scores. They're two guards and scores. And very much, a lot of times it's pull-up jump shooters. That's what Kevin Duran is. So I do think there's value in Aiton being a different body type, having some limitations, being able to score low.

Could he be impactful in the playoffs? And I would defend him. I mean, I watched him in Arizona. I thought he was going to be a dominant player. He wasn't. But he's almost gotten to a point now where he is so beaten down that it's as if we're not acknowledging 18 and 10. He is a really active big. I mean, he really is, and he's pretty damn good,

six feet in. He's a, I mean, you tell me your take. I think he's a pretty good finisher close. Offensively, he's very active. He does struggle with motor defensively. And the problem with when you are trying to build your defense around a center as a foundation and he doesn't play hard every possession, that's a really difficult speed bump to get over. And here's the thing. Vogel's going to be on him about it nonstop. You mentioned the talent piece. Bradley Beal unquestionably makes them better. You turned Chris Paul and Landre Shammit until Bradley Beal. Of course, he's better. But I do believe in diminishing returns in basketball, especially when you have that type of redundancy. The example I'd give is like, you need a superstar to break down the defense. Then you need

quality role players to finish possessions when the ball ends up in their hands after the defense has warped towards the star. So how much of a gap is there between a Bradley Beal and a KCP to start possessions? A massive gap because Bradley Beale is so much more gifted offensively. But if the vast majority of the possessions are going to be initiated by Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, how much of a gap is there in play finishing between a Brad Beal and a KCP? A much smaller gap. And so that doesn't mean it can't work because talent obviously helps. But the only way this is going to work is if all four of those guys, not just Satan, but all four of those guys really embrace the dirty work. Because what happens on a Denver Nuggets team is Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokic take on that initial creation role.

And KCP works his ass off all the time. And then he'll catch and finish at the end of plays. And so one of those guys is going to have to really lean into being an off ball threat that really competes defensively. It's going to be Bradley Beal because he's the third best player in that group. But everyone's been saying, of course the sons are better. Of course the sons are better. Yeah, they are. But they have to beat Denver four times out of seven. And the only way they're going to do that is if they can win a freaking fist fight, man, like a really physical grind-out series. And so I do think this can work, but all three of those guys have to just work their butts off on the details, including Kevin Durant, who has the capability to be an Anthony Davis-esque defender when he's trying. Okay, so let's pivot to CP3 to the Warriors. So I'd said Friday on the herd on FS1 that it felt like it was the move before a move, is that no GM in the league says what I want to get is slower and older.

Nobody says that. But if you brought in, say, a Brooke Lopez, you could say, listen, our second unit is going to have a different tempo. And we will eventually bridge those during the regular season. But as we age, we're not going to be, we're not playing the same style. Because Jordan Poole wanted to play the same style when Steph was on the bench, but they didn't trust him. So it's almost as if they're saying, listen, this is the first of two moves. We're going to go to a veteran big, high IQ can fundamentally work quickly in our offense, which they were hoping Wiseman could do.

But Wiseman played three college games. He's a kid. It's way, it's like asking a kid out of college to go be an executive at Google. You're probably not going to figure it out, right? Like give the kid a break. So Wiseman gets there, plays three college games, goes, and it's 100 miles an hour. Brooke Lopez, really bright guy, been around the league.

You bring him in, and your second unit is more physical. They play at a slower pace. If you look at who they drafted, it's the next clay, although not the defender clay was at Washington State, but it's a shooter, an athletic shooter. And what they're basically saying is, and that kid will probably play on that second unit, is we're going to have some fundamental differences,

first unit to second unit. Now, that's what I'm guessing. You tell me as somebody who played college basketball, is that impossible? Does it work? Because I mean, Chris Paul is, I think, amenable to some different styles. But he's 38. Okay, he's, there is no next gear that this is what he is now.

Like, if you were running on seven years ago and say, hey, Chris, we're going to ask you to, you know, play a little faster. This is what he is. He's a walking up the floor guy, right? So my take on Chris is that this is the first of two moves. And I think they're going to go get a Brooke Lopez type. Does that make any sense or am I just reaching? So again, I think there's two different angles to look at the Chris Paul trade.

Was it the right use of the asset? I don't know because he was a big salary that you could have brought back multiple players. Obviously it makes them better because you're turning a kid into a grown adult at the guard position. Like for instance, there was one player in the NBA finals. below the age of 25, he played over 100 minutes. It was Michael Porter, Jr. He's 24, and he was the one guy who really struggled. Because kids struggle in the later phases of the NBA playoffs.

Now, Jordan Poole actually did play great in last year's postseason, but that's an anomaly. And most of the young guards that play in the postseason look more like what he did this year. So they upgraded him to a sound veteran presence that might not have the highs that Jordan Poole brought, but it's going to be much more stable. And if you look at their on-off numbers with Steph this year, they were plus 47 in the playoffs with step on the floor, minus 49 without step on the floor in the postseason. And that's a Jordan Poole issue, isn't it? Yeah, because he's too unstable in that spot.

And he's too, again, and Chris Paul obviously is slower and older, but Jordan Poole was one of the worst defensive guards in the league this year. In the regular season, the Warriors were plus 268 with Steph on the floor minus 120 without him. So obviously it's about helping them survive the non-step minutes. Here's the thing. The style differences could not be more dramatic. And I found some numbers that are absolutely stunning. And these numbers are per synergy. So the Warriors ran just over 2,200 pick and rolls last year, which amounted to just 24% of their possessions, which was dead last in the league. Chris Paul by himself ran over 1,100 pick and rolls, which was 77% of his possessions, which was number one in the entire league. So you have the guy who runs pick and roll more than anybody in the entire. entire NBA on a per possession basis, going to the team that runs it as infrequently as any team in the NBA. So the styles are really, really weird there. But the one thing, though, is they do inevitably have to lean more on pick and roll in the postseason. And so the way I look at it is like it's a move for the playoffs. Because what happened in the Lakers series is AD was shutting

all their stuff down on the backline when they were running their motion. And so they had to just go to Steph high pick and roll and he got fatigued and he wore down. And his jumper started missing. If you could toss some of those possessions to Chris Paul, maybe you lighten his workload and Steph is able to stay at his ceiling longer in the playoffs. So listening to you, I think you said it more eloquently. So the first thing they make this Chris Paul move for is to limit the damage when Steph's not on the floor.

So they look at analytics like you and I would do and go, we're bad when steps in the floor. how do we get less awful? So if you could cut that in half, you win more games, you win more playoff games, you win more road games. The second thing is, I think to your point, you have to run some pick and roll in the playoffs. A Brooke Lopez, a Chris Paul. So why not get a guy who runs it as often and frequently as anybody else? So I do feel like, to your point, what they're saying is, listen, our non-steff minutes will be significantly better. We won't be a peak in Valley team.

will be a peak plateau, peak plateau team plus. Secondly, let's acknowledge that we probably now at this point have to do some pick and rolls. So why not get a guy who's as good as anybody that's ever done it or certainly in a small group? So as you explain it, I think to myself, oh, those are wins. I don't know if their title wins. But the non-steff moments, I mean, those are.

atrocious. But that's the difference between a W and an L in a road game or a playoff game. I mean, that's the difference. It absolutely is. I mean, like a lot of times we try to simplify for the, I don't know, for the theatrics of it all, we try to simplify basketball down to like a matchup of superstars. But it really is a team sport. I mean, Nicole Yoke just won without a backup star because the team is so sound down the roster, right?

I mean, here's where I have an issue with it. You need size and athleticism on the front line. You and I agree on that. Because of their cap situation, they don't really have the means with which to sign anybody for anything more than a veteran minimum contract for the rest of the postseason. Or for the rest of the off season. So they're not really going to be able to get that guy. So in my opinion, the best way to have done that would have been to try to use Pools contract the way the Lakers used Westbrook's contract as a vehicle with which to bring back multiple players. Does that make sense?

So, like, obviously, like, you don't get. DeAngelo Russell, Jared Vanderbilt, and Malik Beasley in the offseason market because they just cost too much. But if you have a giant contract and teams are moving these mid-level contracts around, it's a vehicle to bring back multiple players. They used Jordan Poole to bring back one player. So they did address a need. They addressed their high pick and roll need that they have in the late postseason, which, by the way, it's just literally the way basketball works. Teams scout too much. So all your sets stop working.

They start switching things more frequently. you need guys that can work out of pick and roll in ISO in the playoffs. Chris Paul addresses that helps you when stuff's off the floor. But I think it severely hampered them in their ability to address the front court need, which comes to an interesting follow-up. Like, does this end with Clay Thompson getting traded? Does this end with a different larger salary bringing back a different piece? I don't know if you noticed, but Rashon Holmes got traded recently. And now all of a sudden, the Sacramento Kings have like $35 million in cap space. you know, who they'd love to have, Mr. Draymond Green.

And all it takes is blackluster. Now, I think Golden State's going to get a deal done, and I hope so because I think the Warriors are more entertaining with Draymond. But, like, they're going to have to, they may end up having to give up one of their core pieces to address the rest of their needs because, you know, as someone who covered the Lakers pretty closely the last couple of years, the whole veteran minimum contract thing tends to be pretty underwhelming. Right.

So let's, I want to talk about the Celtics and Porzinger. So I had said this last week. I think it makes them, they tend to get bunched up offensively late in games. And because Marcus Smart was never a true facilitator, they're always good enough on the defensive end. They just get clogged up. And Marcus Smart's a very alpha, very strong personality. Jalen Brown, again, feels like he's more aggressive than Tatum.

One of them leaves. So that battle, I don't think will be as bad. Porzingis is not, he's not a great locker room guy. certainly not a leader, right? So now the team feels like it's more Tatum's. And that's not, it's not a knock on Marcus Smart, but he was kind of considered the soul of it. You know, he was going into his 10th year. He was older. He's hyper aggressive. He's at times their best defensive player. So they move off him, which I never had a problem with because he wasn't a true facilitator. Porzingis, not a great pick and roll defender, not a great locker room guy gets hurt. But I do think

when they get clogged up. We're dropping the ball, big fella. Go get a basket. Marcus Smart was really hot and cold. So that part, I think they're better offensively. But I think one of the other moves was, because everybody loved Marcus Smart, it feels like to me,

one of the moves was to create more clarity, personality-wise, that Jason, this is your team. We're getting rid of the decade longer. That's what it felt like to me. It's like, we're probably not going to be as good defensively. We'll be better offensively. but there'll be more clarity on whose team it is. Does that sound crazy?

No, I think you're hitting a nail in the head. I said this after the finals, but one of the biggest lessons I learned this year, do you remember after the Celtics lost last year? We're like, oh, they need another card. They need another card. And so they did. And they went and got probably the best card you could have gotten last off season.

But the conundrum is, at the end of the game, it's still in Tatum's hands. So the lesson, the big lesson I learned, earned is top end ball handling still matters way more than down the roster ball handling. And that's how teams like, you know, Denver and Miami win. Even though they don't have the level of ball handling down the roster, their best guy is just so damn good that it's hard to out-execute him down the stretch of a big-time playoff game. So like taking Marcus Smart out of the equation, kind of relieving that ball handling log jam, leans more into Jason Tatum. And we said this after the

Celtics series. But I really do think the Celtics best pathway forward to reaching back to contender status is, yeah, they got to defend better. They got to reembrace their defensive identity. But Jason Tatum just has to continue to improve as a shock creator. Now, Chris Sopsox forzingis is a really interesting player because he almost always picks and pops to the three point line in ball screens, which is actually super useful in the NBA. That's why Victor Wimbunbighamma is such as an exciting prospect. When you pick and pop, it pulls the screen defender away from the basket, because he has to close out to the top of the key. which opens up all kinds of driving lanes.

And then when they switch, Chrisops Porzingis has actually turned himself into a very effective post-up player. He was actually one of the top five post-up players in the league this year. He particularly was great at beating switches. So when they would get a smaller defender on him, he's actually deceptively physical

for being such a thin guy. He's pretty physical. And he gets a guy pinned on his backside and while they're trying to reach around, he just quick pivots to the basket and finishes. So he's going to be a guy that can help beat switching teams with by dump. because Jason Tatum just abandoned his post game this year for whatever reason. And I hope he gets it back.

But they really became a very one-dimensional team this year. There's a lot of dribble, like 15 dribbles at the top of the key, somebody trying to make a shot. So it gives some more dimension to their offense. But most importantly, it combines Horford and Robert Williams and their strengths into one useful player. So, you know, Robert Williams is this big vertical threat who's a rim protector. Chris Ops Porzingis can do that. But Robert Williams is very limited offensively. And so Al Horford, they were much better offensively because they could play five out because

Warford could shoot. It spaced the floor better. Porzingis gives you the best of both worlds and gives you the depth if you run into an NBA final series against Denver to have three bigs to throw at Nicole Yokic. So I actually really liked this deal. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

So I was talking to a scout in the NBA who I've known for a while. And I said, what did you make in the draft? And he said, listen, the three best players went in the top three, regardless of order. He said, Scoot, Wemby are going to be sensationally talented. Miller is a good fit for Charlotte. He liked him a lot. He's really, really good.

That's who I would have taken second. The league's getting bigger. But the Lakers draft, let's talk about the kid that goes in the first round. Jalen Hood, Skifino, who's a one and dunner. So that's a good sign. Average almost 14 a game is a one and dunner in college. Most of your most talented college kids stay for a year. You know, it's a tarmac.

College basketball now is a tarmac. You're just waiting for the next flight. So he's long. Doesn't have a jump shot yet, but I never worry too much about that. It's the one thing even, even decent shooters who become like shooting guards. Nobody, Booker wasn't that good of a shooter at Kentucky. I'm sorry, folks, he wasn't. Like, Jamal Murray, it develops over time.

His wingspans like 610. He's long, angular, clever. He'll be a score. I looked at him and I looked at all his highlights. And, you know, whenever, a kid goes one and done, the fans are like, ah, he's overrated, he should have stayed at school. My takeaway is if he could become by the end of a season, a top seven rotational player with Rui and Austin and A.D. and LeBron, just rotational. That would feel like an enormous

win to me. Is that reasonable? Absolutely. The thing with Jalen is he has a very specific skill set that is impactful with what the Lakers do. So you said he can't shoot. It's absolutely. true in catch and shoot situations. He was awful as a catch and shoot player. And obviously that's going to hurt of an offball situation, which is probably why he won't close games for the Lakers, which is not what they're expecting from a draft pick. But what the Lakers do a ton of,

because LeBron James and Anthony Davis have declined so much as as shot creators, they use him as screeners a ton now. Like you literally saw that in game four against the Warriors. It was Lonnie Walker running pick and rolls with LeBron James as a screener, you know, like that kind of thing. So, like, Lonnie Walker's probably going to be gone. Dennis Schroeder was not a veteran minimum contract player, so he's probably going to get signed. So you've got Austin Reeves and DeAngel Russell, but at this point, you really are most likely going to end up with nobody at that guard slot coming off the bench yet, unless they, you know, end up hitting a home run in free agency.

So Jaylor-Hugh-Chafino, as bad as he is as a catch-and-shoe player, he actually shot 40% on pull-up jump shots this year. So he can hit shots in pick and roll as he gets downhill into that mid-range area. He also is limited as a passer to the weak side, like making cross court passes to shooters, but he's very good at making passes to the rolemate. You guys might know Trace Jackson Davis, who ended up going to the Warriors at the end of the second round. He was a really good big man that was one of Jalen's teammates, and he was awesome at feeding him and pick and roll constantly, and just little passes over the top and pocket passes. That's a great fit with Anthony Davis and LeBron.

So I think the thought process there for the Lakers was we're looking for a backup guard. at for as high as he was picked and with his physical tools you hit the nail on head he's like six nine wingspan six 10 wingspan without shoes he's like six four and a quarter so he's like six five and some change he weighs almost 220 pounds so he's really big that means he's going to be able to you know defend up a position and things like that not a fantastic athlete but that's kind of the trade off there they're going for they're not looking for upside from that pick they're looking for immediate productivity at the at the NBA level i will say though Colin i really like the kid they got in the second round, this Max Lewis kid.

So he played a Pepperdine, freaky athlete, just a knockdown shooter, just like an absolute knockdown shooter. The player he reminds me the most of, do you remember Trey Murphy from New Orleans, that wing that can just shoot that piss out of the basketball? Like that's literally the kind of upside that I see from Maxwell Lewis.

And so between him and Max Christie, the other wing that got last year who's already bulked up and can shoot really well too, like the Lakers scouting department might be. the best in the league and they have so many hits between Austin Reeves and Alex Caruso and Kyle Coosman. Josh Hart, you go further back. Like this is what an asset to a front office to where even if you're cap strapped, even if you're struggling, you know, to make the right trades, where you're just getting two or three useful players every couple of season that can, like,

Austin Reeves averaged 17 points and five assists and was really efficient in the postseason last year. Like they're getting really useful players out of the draft. So shout out to the Lakers, scouting department. I actually, I read an article, and I think it was CBS sports, and I apologize if it's not. And the writer was saying, for all the lamenting about the Lakers, he said, you go six, seven years back. The scouting department's done a really good job for the Lakers, and they deserve, they deserve props. And I think I said this to you on one of our earlier podcasts, the game is now so global. It stretches, I mean, these, the NFL, I've been told by an NFL general manager one time, that if you just took SEC players, 60%, if you just said, I want to build an NFL team and

only draft out of the SEC. He said, as long as you had a quarterback, he said, you'd be viable. He was, that's how many athletes there are in the SEC. So think about that. The NFL, if you had to start quarterback, and you just draft it to the SEC, you know, like that's, that was your picks. He's like, you could build, he goes, you wouldn't be the best roster. He said, but you could build like a viable roster. The NBA now, the map is not only not the South. It's the globe.

And they're younger. And you have less tape and fewer games. So it's, I always defend these NBA GMs. You've got, and now you've got kids in Europe playing against older players. So that dynamic, I'm watching tape and I'm like, Okay, he's 16 and that guy is 24. And he's going to be an NBA player and that guy's never going to be. So I think basketball to scout, we have to be, we have, there's some whiffs in this sport.

But we've got to be realistic here. It's hard. Like it's really, like in baseball, I got a jugs gun. I know what you throw. I know what the speed is, right? If you're playing college baseball, it's college player against college player. there's obviously Latin America some international leagues and players. But I think basketball, I mean, the Lakers have done a very admirable job.

It's you almost have to bake in some misses. You really do have to bake in some misses. I remember years ago when Mike Dunlevy, who's now the GM of the Warriors, I covered him in high school, Jesuit high school in Portland. And I knew his dad. I covered him. He was the Blazers coach. And I asked his dad one time when he left early.

People thought he was kind of thin. He should have stayed at Duke one more year. And Mike and I had a long talk one time about that. And he said, you know, Colin, it was really about practice. Is that the best players he ever faced were at Duke's practice. He wasn't facing NBA players in games. And it's like, yeah, he's probably leaving a year early, but he'll go up against better players,

even if he doesn't play just at NBA practice. And he said, you do get to a point where you're not leaving just for the money. You're leaving to get better faster, right? So I guess my point is I always kind of defend general managers in the NBA and scouts. It's hard. The other thing is the younger people, I have six kids in my life. The younger your kid, the bigger the leaps they take. Like my son between 14 and 17 is a different person.

in the NFL, you get a kid at 23. The gap between 23 and 25 is you're a little more mature. But I grew six inches myself, junior to senior year in high school. So your body's not done. You're emotionally not there. And you're asked as an NBA scout at 17 to grab, put your arms around it and figure out this Rubik's cube, this jigsaw puzzle of a young man. Boys mature slower than women. We never think about that.

So of the two sexes, of the two genders, boys tend to mature much later. So you can draft a player and he goes sideways. He's a kid. He's got money. I guess it's a long-winded way of saying the Lakers deserve credit because it is hard to find your Austin Reeves. Undrafted players averaging 17, 18 in the playoffs. That is rare, man. That's needle haystack stuff.

I honestly don't know how they do it because there are so many different elements that go into scouting. And like obviously I do the best. I can with my job, like with the tools that I have at my disposal. But demeanor is a huge part of it. Like, are they workers? You know, do they, are they, are competitiveness, I think is one of the most underrated traits in athletes because there are a lot of athletes, like the DeAndreighton thing. Like, hey, what's your goal in the NBA?

To get to that second contract. I'd be like, what? Like, I can't even relate to that. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I get it. I understand, like, you want to provide financial security to your family. I'm not trying to undercut the money side of it. but like I do think that like freakish competitiveness, like the unrelenting desire to be better

than your peers is something that you have to try to identify. Obviously physical tools and the certain limitations that take place there. Basketball IQ is a huge one. Like Austin Reeves in particular, a huge reason why he's been so good is he's just really a really smart basketball player. And so like he went to go play with LeBron James in a preseason mini camp. And LeBron like right away, it was like Colin rob and sign this dude because like LeBron picked up on hey if I have him as the fifth guy on my team he just kind of makes everything gel and work but I do I don't envy the job because especially I'm sure it's gotten even more complicated post-COVID but I wonder how difficult it is even to get close to these kids to get to know them and to learn what makes them tick before you

make a draft pick like it's a really really difficult job and that's why I want to like shout out the Lakers scouting department because they have an incredibly high batting average for what should be a career with a lot more misses than hits, you know what I mean? Yeah. By the way, one thing you didn't mention is it's the first time you deal with failure. Like, it'll be the first time in your career. You dominated high school, AAU college. You're going to fail.

Yeah, these are better than you. People are going to swat your shit. Right. It's like, how do you deal with failure? Like, some guys shrink. Some guys battle through it. So, all right, finally, we'll wrap it up. We talked about this last podcast about the,

and it's been the emergence over seven to eight years of the European basketball. And Steve Kerr has noted that the AAU form of basketball is not necessarily great for character building. Going forward, Adam Silver, I think Adam Silver sensed this when he made the suspension of John Morant. And I think Adam's really bright. But I think Adam knew it was a moment. He's watching Zion go sideways. He's watching jaw go sideways. And he sees these mature European players.

And I think he understands the value of our domestic players on his TV ratings. And this is not a knock on Yokic, but nobody in this league outside of Denver watched him for the first two years he was in the league. Nobody's watching these second round guys. Draymond Green was a second rounder, but he was four years at Michigan State. he was a tremendous college player. He may have been a college all-American. He was a great college player. I remember Draymond Green second round.

Like first time I saw him as a pro, I watched that guy with Tom Izzo. You don't get that with second round international players or Janus going 10th, 11th, 12th. I thought the John Morant suspension was sort of a, it was Adam Silver's way of saying, guys, we're unraveling. Our domestic players are unraveling here a bit. We're asking more.

They're bigger start. There's Instagram. It's all. And I think, I think he saw it and kind of says, guys, the world's changing really fast. The phones now, he had mentioned two years ago, my players are miserable. There was a lot of pushback on Jaws 25 game suspension. Even Jaws family reported, they think he's picking on him. How did it land with you?

I mean, when Adam made it, did you just see it as right? I saw it as a big picture, a little bit of a warning sign to the league. Guys, we got guys unraveling here. We're not going soft on this. That was my take. Yeah, I think maturity is the big one. And I think it stems from the way the system works. We kind of have a broken system in development right now.

And I don't want to blame AAU exclusively because trust me, there are really bad high school programs. And there are really bad college programs, too. Like, you'd be surprised. We have this, like, expectation, like, oh, everyone that became a college coach is super competent and knows what they're doing. No, no, no. There are plenty of colleges out there that are running the exact opposite of a tight ship. Whereas, like, overseas, it's pretty straightforward. It's like, oh, you're 16 time for you to start playing with the men.

And you're going to be, you're going to behave like a professional. You're going to be in locker rooms with professionals. They're going to teach you. You're going to learn. And, you know, I think, ironically, he's not even an American, but I guess you can call North American. but if I had to pick the North American player that is most capable of competing with the Janus and Embed and Luca and Yokic, it's probably Shea Gildes Alexander.

And he's such a grown-up. He's never in the news. He's never doing anything except for kicking people's ass on the basketball court. He's quiet, but he's loud within his locker room and as a leader. And he's just a grown. Shea-Gildes-A-Ga-Lexander is a grown man already at his. age. And so I think maturity is the big part of it. And I don't, I don't know what a good answer is. I think Adam Silver, obviously, being more of a disciplinary and I think helps. Like, I think it's

important to kind of send this message because it's not just about hurting the kids in the short term in terms of making them miss games. It's also about teaching a lesson that could help them have a longer MBA career. You know, like to even some of these, some of these women out there that have been taking advantage of players and causing problems. Like there needs to be education on that front. So, hey, guess what? Like, if she's reaching out to you on Instagram, she may not have your best interest at heart. She may be trying to take advantage of you.

There's a lot of immaturity in our basketball pipeline, so to speak. And I don't really know what the answer is. I just, as someone who's a fan of American basketball, I hope we get it together soon. Okay, so it's interesting you bring up Shea, because what do Shea and Steph and Yucson? Janice and Yokic have in common. Slow growth. Humbolded early. Injury early.

Had to put on weight. Had to develop. Jha, Zion, stars day one. I mean, this is, this is society. If you give any young person too much early, they get engulfed by it. That she, if I recall, did she come out the same year as Knox at Kentucky? I think so. I get the years mixed up.

But yeah, he was at Kentucky. So Knox got more publicity. Shea was so skinny that I remember Knox was the talk of the two that came out. He didn't develop. He was kind of a low-ceiling player. But Shea got a little humbled. He wasn't even the most discussed Kentucky guy. He came in really thin.

You know, he got moved from the clippers. He's filler. He's filler in the Paul George deal. Right. So what a shock that Steph, early injury, slow growth, Davidson. Shea, filler, yoke it, second round. I, that's why I say I blame the players, but I get it. The slow growth build, slightly humbled, sit on a bench, second round.

What a shock. John, Zion were superstars. I mean, the day they're drafted, that's all I talked about for two years was these guys. So we can blame Zion and Jha, but I think you could have put a lot of kids in that. It was a lot. and I'm not giving them a pass, but I watch my kids. My wife and I always talk about this, not too much too soon. There are steps and appropriate steps.

And, you know, when you're giving your kids an allowance, what's appropriate for their age. I mean, we have like tears of what's appropriate. Okay, you're in college now. You get a little bit more. Now you're out of college for a year. Like, you know, we'll help you pay your cell phone bill. So, no, Shea's a really great example of it. She's a grown up because She was humbled and it's a slow growth story.

Is this his fifth year or the league? He's been in the league for a while. I want to say he's 24. So it's probably his fifth or sixth year. But he's like, Colin, mark my words. Next year is the She goes, well, he did make first team all NBA. So I should, I should call it his coming out party, but he probably shouldn't have for a team that missed the playoffs. But next year is going to be Shay's coming out party.

Okay. So he's going to be awesome. They're going to make it to the playoffs. His game is constructed to succeed in the playoffs. Shee, next year is going to be the year, Shay becomes a goal. bona fide, like a legitimate superstar in the league. And by the way, from the money standpoint, like a number one overall draft pick now makes pretty damn near what LeBron James made with the heat.

Like the way that the money has changed too, like these guys are immediately coming into great amounts of wealth. Obviously, the sneaker deals are huge with the marketing capability provided by social media. Guys like Zion and Jha as highlight reels are just so marketable. And I'm sure, like, I mean, you said it yourself, like toss any kid into that situation. they're going to have some issues. And so maybe that's what it is. Like Joe L.N.B.

coming up as like a late bloomer soccer player kid to Yonnes, and Tenta Cropo, same thing. Like just at this kind of like long, lanky, super raw player. Like they come up in a way that they're humbled along the way. And the reality is, is the LeBron James type, the dude who's the protege from the beginning, the dude who's the legitimate like all-time prospect from day one. he's the exception.

That's super rare. Yes. They're super rare. Like, I mean, even this kid from Duke that Dallas drafted, he was the number one prospect coming out of high school before he went to Duke and like barely played 20 minutes a game. Like, it's a, it's a completely different level of process when you are getting humbled. When you run into somebody who's legitimately better than you versus when you're constantly

clying up, you just kind of have a chip on your shoulder in that sense. All right. Jason Timph, Hoops Tonight, love doing these. Eventually, we're going to give Jason a day off. We've discussed it as a company. It's coming. Sometime, he's going to get summer off.

You can follow him on Twitter. He's a great follow. I get so many compliments about your work. It's great seeing again. This has been such a fun couple of months talking basketball with you. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL,

late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

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