The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Juwan Howard Postgame Scuffle and Ian O'Connor on Coach K Farewell, NY Sports Slump, Brady Comeback

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Colin reacts to the college hoops postgame handshake altercation between Michigan HC Juwan Howard and Wisconsin's Greg Gard, why Phil Mickelson's take on the proposed Saudi golf league sounds like an Onion headline, and which team makes sense for a Tom Brady comeback. (3:00) Then, Ian O'Connor -- NY Post columnist and author of Belichick and the upcoming Coach K -- and Colin discuss the time both of them spent covering Jerry Tarkanian and UNLV (11:00), the rough early years of of Coach K at Duke (16:00), the turning point for Coach K's program (21:00), if Coach K has surpassed John Wooden on the all-time college hoops coaching list (26:00), the biggest factors in Krzyzewski's decision to retire (28:00), why so many New York pro sports teams are so bad (31:00), which bad NY franchise has the best chance to turn it around (34:00), and why Ian thinks it's only a matter of time before Tom Brady comes back to the NFL (37:00), and how Bruce Arians may have driven Brady away (39:00).Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome in to the Monday morning podcast, Ian O'Connor, who's a New York Post columnist and has written a fantastic book about Mike Shoshchewski, the rise and reign of Mike Shoshchewski, coach K at Duke. And it's interesting because college basketball is my first thought today as Michigan and Wisconsin squared off in a big 10 game on Sunday. Now, by this time, you've seen the video of the. the coaches getting into it and the players after that getting into it. You know, I would start with this.

There are levels, obviously, to bad behavior. So both Greg Gard, the Wisconsin coach and Joanne Howard, the Michigan coach, I think should be suspended for their immature, juvenile, boorish behavior after the game as they got into each other's face. It appeared both people touched each other. I don't care who did it first. It's bad behavior. You're paid seven figures a year to be the adults in the room.

But of the levels of bad behavior, which included Michigan and Wisconsin players getting into like a fight afterwards, which has been underdiscust, throwing a punch by Joanne Howard at a Wisconsin assistant is the worst behavior of all the really boorish, churlish behaviors. I don't think he should be fired. but this all comes down to ego. I went to social media. How many guys said this? Hey man, you touched me. It's game on. Well, no, it's not. You have to walk away from that stuff

if you're a grown-up that wants to make 5, 6, 7 million a year coaching basketball at the highest levels representing universities. It can't be about your ego. All the time in life. Politicians, sportscasters, basketball coaches, public figures have to walk away from schmucks

and jerks and instigators. Okay? Both coaches need to grow up, but throwing a punch is the worst action of all the actions. So therefore, that's the one I would penalize

and punish the most. Some people said, well, Colin, in the 80s, Bobby Knight did this and that. Listen, I'll never defend Bobby Knight. He's my least favorite coach in the history of my career. But in the 80s,

we smoked on airplanes. Let's not take the behavior that was accepted in the 80s and say in 2022, it's all good. Bobby Knight would not last today. Bobby Knight should not have lasted in the 90s. It's embarrassing. And Ian O'Connor writes about some of these instances. It's embarrassing that people defended him and did for two and three decades. But it's 2022.

Joanne Howard knows better. And Greg Gard knows better. Both the guys need to grow up. I've always liked Phil Mickelson, the golfer, but he had a tone-deaf explanation for why he's supporting a Saudi Arabian-backed Super Golf League that's attempting to lure players away from the PGA tour. The new Super Golf League is proposing that some players would receive guaranteed money upwards of $30 million a year. They would basically get paid no matter how they play like NFL or NBA stars. Mickelson's biographer quoted him saying, quote, we know they killed Khashoggi, the Washington Post journalist, and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay.

Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. If you say something and it sounds like an onion headline, you may want to retract it as soon as you can. Listen, when you watch the PGA Tour, do you ever think, man, these athletes look like they're being treated poorly? Come on now. Last year, the average player made $1.5 million. In fact, there have been multiple times in the last 20 years. The highest paid athlete in America has been a golfer.

Tiger or Phil Mickelson. Back 2017, Forbes released a list of the highest paid athletes ever for the top six were golfers. Tiger, Arnie, Jack and Phil. Michael Jordan and Michael Shoemaker were the other two. Phil Mickelson, according to Forbes, has made $815 million. dollars. Phil, when you say things and it sounds like an onion headline, you got to retract it. Something else that happened over the weekend, Rich Ornberger, former NFL player, a radio host in San Diego and a frequent guest on my show, the very popular herd, I'm sure you've seen it. Most of America has. Anywho, he came out and said with absolute conviction and he's got connections all over the league, that,

that Brady and Ariens relationship soured. My first takeaway is, yeah. I mean, you tell me the superstar in American sports that likes being shouted out and ripped by his coach regularly. I never liked when Ariens did that. He has a right to. He's the head coach. But Bruce can be very loose in his coaching, in his style. And I thought ripping Brady repeatedly, publicly was poor form.

Tom's a good guy, but he's got an ego. He's the best player in the history of the most popular domestic league. I'd use discretion when ripping him publicly. So when I hear these stories by Rich Ornberger, I absolutely believe them. I think Tom is retired for good, but I do think some of the suggestions that he would consider the 49ers if they called are real. From there, favorite team, total respect for Kyle Shanahan. they're built to win now. They're very run-centric.

They're built for an older quarterback. He doesn't have to throw 45 times. Kyle Shanahan would prefer he throws 27 times. Now, the division's tough. It'd be another system he has to learn. And Shanahan's system is usually better for all quarterbacks, Matt Ryan, Jimmy Garoppolo in the second year. But I think he'd consider it.

He'd have a glass of wine with Giselle, and they discuss it in their Costa Rica village they own, maybe an island for all I know, who knows? But it's worth discussing. When I retire, somebody may come and make me an offer and I'm 70 years old. And then maybe an offer I go, I'll consider it. But I think Tom is a person that what he says he believes and what he says he usually does. And I do think he's got a fairly broad life, kids, wife, businesses, he'll stay retired.

But the Niners offer would be worth a glass of Vino with your. wife to discuss. All right. This is one of my favorite guys that's ever written a column. I think sometimes columnists, not all, but a lot of columnists, to get it to be a columnist, you have to be a great writer. But sometimes when a columnist becomes a columnist, they forget how good of a reporter they were.

And what Ian does, and I think you do this better than any columnist in the country, you're still a dogged reporter and a columnist. So you remember your roots. we all in our 20s, we didn't have these glamorous columnist and talk show jobs. And we were covering, you know, probably you were probably covering Ithaca or so. What was your first gig? Well, I actually was chasing Jerry Tarkhanian around Las Vegas for the National Sports Daily, Frank DeFords, all sports newspaper, right?

So I had a blast doing that. That was, it was in a full-time job, but I did a lot of that. And I learned a lot, actually, about reporting. And before that, I was doing death. notices, obituaries, town meetings, high school sports. So you name it. I did everything. I answered phones.

I got people lunch at the New York Times. So I paid some dues anyway, but covering Tark was fun in Vegas. It was my first job out of college. I got a job at the NBC affiliate. I covered Tark, Tyson, and Trouble. And it was a great time back then. The mobsters were in Vegas. And Tark was, I had a love, hate relationship with Tark.

But I will say this. College basketball was more fun then. There was a lot of characters. A lot. Now, the Big East had a lot of them, but, you know, that's one of the things I tell people that sports is better today than it's ever been except college basketball. I thought it was better 20 years ago. No doubt about that, Colin. I used to love going to the Big East tournament and covering it. Now I couldn't tell you half the teams in the Big East. And so it's all changed. I remember Tarkani and talk about colorful characters after he lost that epic game to Duke in the 91 Final Four. That Vegas team might have been the best team I've ever seen. Yes. Unbeaten going in. That morning, he was upset about something I wrote. And he called early that next morning. I don't know if he had even gone to bed. He was so upset about that defeat. And he threatened to kill me. He did. He said, I will have your head blown off. And I shook it off. I wasn't too concerned that it was a real threat. He was just so mad. By the end of that night, he had invited me down for cocktails in the hotel lobby. That was Tark. That was covering Tark. He would, he would, get so angry, but he usually would forgive and forget. And I'll never forget that night hanging out with Tark and his buddies as if that phone call never happened. Yeah, Jerry Tarkhanian,

I and a reporter named John Henderson, who has since retired and moved to Italy. He covered college sports for the Denver Post, I believe. We sat, it was called, I think it was called Tarks. And we sat and had drinks one night. And it was, it is a top 10. sports moment. And there was one moment where Tark said that John, he goes, John, if you ever admit this, I'll kill you. But I actually took a suggestion from one of your columns last month, instituted it into a game plan. And if you ever tell anybody, and we were laughing so hard. And you know what? Years ago, Tark and I had our battles. Years ago, I was doing a live at Penn State. And his nieces, adorable nieces came up.

and he was still living. And he said, our uncle just wanted to say he's really proud of how well you've done. And he watches and listens. And he just wanted to say he hopes things are going well for you. And I thought it really made, not only made my day, it was a really warm gesture. And it, you know what, we're all human. We have bad days. We're all, by the way, speaking of that, I'm not done with your book.

I have about 30 pages to go. the book is called The Rise and Rain of Mike Shoshchewski. This is airing on Monday. It'll be available tomorrow. It is absolutely fantastic. Thank you. Your level of reporting is insane. I don't even, as I read it, I'm like, okay, how the hell do you know this stuff?

You're going back to Army games. But here's what's fascinating. We forget, we are so impatient with young people these days. Mike Shishvsky has. a losing record at Army, five years into Duke, they were getting sandblasted by ACC teams, and they gave him a contract extension. And I think that gets lost in this, is that you go back to John Wooden, as you know, Ian. He didn't win big for a long time.

But let's go back and discuss that this book is so fun. It really is, when you bring in the Bob Knight stuff, it is jet fuel to this book. It is just you can't get enough of this. But let's go back. How the heck did he get that Duke job? I know because I read it. He had a losing record in Army. And in fact, Bob Knight was a much better coach at Army than Shishvsky.

It would be easy to go, well, Knight's the great coach. You're a shadow of Knight. Why did he get it? Well, Knight helped him get it. And thanks for the kind words, Colin. But Knight was a fairly big advocate of Mike getting that job at Duke. Now, he was nine and 17 that final season. And Tom Butters, the AD at Duke, deserves so much credit for having the, you know what, to hire him at 9 and 17 coming out of Army.

Steve Vesendak was an official in the Athletic Department former player. And he was an advocate too. He had seen Mike coach at Army and was a pretty big believer in him and sort of, hey, you don't know how to pronounce his name. You certainly don't know how to spell it. But the guy's a really good defensive coach. You, Tom, believe in defense. let's give this guy a chance. And Butters loved him in the interview process,

and he just had a hard time pulling the trigger. How am I going to sell this to an ACC fan base? Bill Foster just took us to the national championship game. I'm going to hire a 9 and 17 coached Army nobody's ever heard of, but he did. Those early years were brutal, and the boosters were calling for his head. Fans, students, faculty members wanted him out.

He lost, you said ACC opponents. He lost the Wagner at home. Wagner, if you go back and look at that Waggner, that Wagner team in the ECAC Metro, I believe they were in. They were terrible in that conference. They were losing to LIU, St. Francis of New York, and they beat Duke at Duke. And that was the point where it really looked like Mike could not survive. Somehow he hung in there. Butters out of nowhere gives him a contract extension. And the rest is history. He got that recruiting class, Billis, Allery, Dawkins, Henderson, and really that saved him.

Without that recruiting class, he gets fired. College basketball championship season is approaching and there's no better place to get in on the action than the Fanduil Sportsbook. It's where I bet. New customers place their first college basketball bet risk-free up to $1,000. Bet college basketball any way you like. I like the same game parlays. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

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A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because.

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Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host,

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Yeah, Johnny Dawkins, there's a moment with Johnny Dawkins where, I think, they beat Carolina and they have this embrace. There's a funny line. Tell the audience here. So it's really, it's the moment. It's Mike's. It really crystallizes, to me, the book. The center point of the book is that moment where, you know, Dean Smith is godlike. Mike at one point challenges the media to have an equal standard. You treat them like this and us like the little engine, which, by the way, they mostly were. But that Johnny Dawkins, that win that moment, that embrace in that story. Right. And finally beating Carolina in a big moment on a big stage.

And before that game, he had told his players, at that point, Duke had gotten pretty good. So they were not a huge underdog in that game, but expected to lose. And he told his players, expect to win. And when we win, don't act like you haven't been there before. Act like you expected to do exactly what you just did, which is beat North Carolina, your biggest rival. So they win the game. And Shoshchewski is dancing around.

He's happier than anybody. And he hugs Dawkins. And Dawkins says to him, coach, I thought we weren't really supposed to celebrate this. That's what you said. and Coach Ked, I'm paraphrasing a little bit because I don't have the page in front of me. Shut up, Johnny. Let's just enjoy this, okay? So I thought that was, that really was a beautiful scene.

And, but yes, Shishovsky was, he did not follow his own advice. His players tried to, but then they saw how happy Mike was and they played along. The criticisms of Shishvsky, he had a little Bobby Knight. He had a temper. He could throw a chair. He was smarter than Bob and that he, knew when the cameras were on. I mean, we saw him bark on the sideline for years.

What is the criticism of Shishovsky that you would buy into that you think is fair? Because he's obviously, he, John Wooden, you know, they're in this rarefied Bobby Knight or in this rarefied air. We all know the criticism, you know, of Wooden, which is, did he buy some of his players? We know the criticism of Knight is he was really at times a bully and a bad person. What's the criticism that lands to you on Shoshchevsky? When you mentioned he threw a chair, he actually did in practice at Army. He threw a chair across the floor. And the player who told me that story said he threw the chair.

He wasn't throwing it at me. He was throwing that chair instead of me. But he was so angry, he did actually do something before Bobby Knight threw a chair on TV in the middle of the game. That's a difference. Mike did it behind closed doors. And Bob Knight did it on television in the middle of the game. So that sort of is where those two. I always thought Mike would go up to the line that night would cross, but Mike would never cross

that line and certainly get physical with a player. But the degrading language was so intense. At times, I do think it was too much. And most of that was in practice, Conlo, the first time I sat behind him at a game, it was in 99, Sweet 16 against Steve Alford's Southwest Missouri State team. And I could not believe for two and a half hours how relentless the profanity was and not just how relentless it was. The profanity was not just your regular profanity. It was really tough to listen to. And I was surprised. I couldn't believe it. I said there are a lot of grandmothers around America who would be mortified, who loved this guy if they ever sat behind him. But I think the criticism to me that is very fair is he has a hard time ever saying, I'm wrong. It's,

I'm wrong, but guess what, you were wrong too. The mistakes he made with the Jeff Capel chant with attacking or ambushing the student sports staff of the student newspaper back in 1990. And then he can't ever really apologize fully. The Dylan Brooks thing, it's always I was wrong, but guess what? You were wrong too. So he's very sensitive to the criticism. He has a very hard time saying, I'm sorry. I would say, though, overall, his flaws are fairly benign for the most part,

but they're there, and I do document them in the book. I really do hold him in a very elite class. I've always, I think, sometimes I've been forced to separate art from artist. So Bobby Knights, to me, despicable in so many ways. But I do think creating the motion offense, maybe the best basketball team in the 70s, that undefeated Indiana team, which by the way, in your book, it's detailed. The Indiana players thought the team the year before was better than that team, although they had a heartbreaking loss. I do think, I didn't see Mo Iba, but the Kentucky coach. Joe B. Hall, Joby Hall?

Joe B. Hall, I apologize. But I think wouldn't Bobby Knight coach Kay, am I missing somebody? Dean Smith, if you're talking about D. I mean, if you want to put Rup there, although I have a hard time putting Rup anywhere based on the way he conducted his program and obviously discriminating against African American players. So I don't put him on the mount. But I think Sushchevsky and Wooden are one in one A.

I would put Mike ahead of John Wooden, actually. He's won 530 more games than John Wooden. I believe durability matters. They both went to 12 final fours. I understand the wooden crowd says it's a ridiculous comparison. It's 10 to 5 in national titles. How can you put the two in the same category? But no, I think when you've won 530 more games,

in a tougher era to do it with paris, and won and done, all the things that Coach Kay had to adapt to that wouldn't, didn't really have to worry about. I would go, Mike Soshefsky won, John Wooden, 1A. College sports now are going through an interesting time, transfer portal, name image likeness. Coach K is still very good. Do you think, and he's pretty spry for his age, do you think any of the change, do you think any of the change, of the sport. A couple of years ago, he was really critical publicly that he was so disappointed in the lack of leadership in the sport. Roy Williams, by the way, could have continued to coach,

although for some reason, to me, it feels like Coach K has more prime years than Roy did at the end. Do you think there are mitigating factors why Coach K retired, or is it just, I did it, I'm done, it's a good number, I'm out? in Colin, there are mitigating factors. And he said the pandemic had nothing to do with it. He said the new era of college basketball, there's free agency through the transfer portal, NIL being a part of that and an extension of that. I think that definitely was a factor because he talked to some of his friends about those very things. And those friends told me about that, that he was saying those things. And so I think there are a number of different factors. Certainly age 75, it's time. He does

want to spend more time with his grandchildren, his family, his wife, Mickey. Those things are all true. But the pandemic really wore him down. He did a, that was a bad team last year. He did a bad coaching job with a bad team. And so he knew this team was going to be better than that. And I think he did want to end obviously on a good note. But he told some of his friends, hey, I don't know who's coming and going. I don't know who's in quarantine today. Who's coming to practice? is are we going to have our game played tonight or will it be canceled? So that did wear him down without question. I think also I don't know who's coming and going in the transfer portal.

And I think that threw him for a bit of a tizzy without question. So those factors were part of it. He said they were not. And I just frankly don't believe that part of his explanation anyway. The book is called The Rise and Rain, Coach K, the Rise and Rain of Mike Shosh. It's really, it's so instructive. There's so many historic elements to it. Fascinating stories.

I just think you'll love it, folks. I think you'll really, really love it. And I say this with a bit of disappointment is my first job out of college, I covered Tark. So the first sport that I really covered, the first two sports I covered that were big time that made me feel like I belonged were boxing. in Vegas, Tyson fight, Sugar Ray Leonard Hurons, and college basketball. I was at when David Robinson was at Navy, Pat O'Brien was on the sidelines. It was really appointment viewing. We get that so infrequently now in college basketball, so I just couldn't recommend this

more highly to any of you. I want to talk about a couple of New York things because I regret it if I didn't. Sometimes things are simply coincidental. But the sports right now in New York are so bad across the board and disappointing. The Yankees certainly have talent, but I don't always think it's the shrewdest front office. Is it coincidental or is it tax rates, bad weather, bad ownership? Los Angeles, for instance, we have some of those issues. High taxes, big city.

Yet our teams are across the board really strong. Lakers obviously are going through. a tough time as they age. But how do you have a theory of belief of it's been several years now here, Ian, it's, it's been half a decade of just drag. Why? Well, I think Colin, the Knicks are in their own category of terrible management ownership for the better part of 20 years.

You thought last year they got it right with Tibbs and now they're sort of back to where they were pre-tibs. And I think two things happened with the Yankees and the Giants is Derek Jeter and Eli Manning got old. And that changed things around the same time for those franchises. And I think part of it is, Colin, that the world is so small now that New York doesn't have the advantage it used to have. It used to be in free agency. Hey, come to New York. You can enjoy all the spoils of big market New York.

Well, you can get that anywhere now. Yeah. And I think the shrinking world has shrunk New York to some degree. And the advantage that the big city had is really off the table now. Free agents don't care. I can get that in Cleveland. I can get that in Oklahoma City. I can get it in Houston.

I can get it anywhere. So I think part of the problem, if you're looking for a trend or a narrative thread to run through the dysfunction and losing in New York that we've seen over the years, to me, as I've thought about it, that is the first thing that comes to mind. And Los Angeles probably survives that because, A, it's Mediterranean weather. And B, there are so many entertainment options, ancillary income opportunities out here. I mean, there's a YouTube building next to my house and Googles down the street, Silicon Valley out here in northern California. So I think to some degree, I mean, I think you've really hit on it. I think L.A. survives that because it's a very easy, you know, New York. largely a lot of this is it's a it's a football shaped island you build vertically it's it's it's a lot

of noise it's a lot of congestion in los angeles you can live in mallowborough a thousand oaks and literally hide from the fans you can't i mean you really can't it's the biggest second biggest county in america i never see rams in town i've been here six years i've never seen a single los angeles ram at any event anywhere in town you know it's amazing too is when i think of l a i just automatically gravitate toward the Lakers. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're at you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look

Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app,

search learn the hard way and listen now. And we talk about terrible ownership and management in New York with the Knicks. You have the opposite of that with the Lakers.

It's funny. Laker dysfunction over the years, Phil Jackson in fighting with others in the organization. Meanwhile, they're competing four championships,

winning championships. Shaq is fighting. Kobe, that's a problem. Well, it's their dysfunction compared to Nick's dysfunction. And New York fans would take that in a heartbeat. I mean, that trade. And so I think L.A. is defined by the Lakers.

And the Lakers are almost always there. I know this year has been a big disappointment. But they'll be back next year. Davis will come back on a mission, not making the All-Star team. He'll be healthy again. And I think LeBron will win another title or two. And L.A. will be carried by a very functioning basketball organization, while New York is being dragged down by the very.

opposite of that. If I said to you, Giants, Jets, Mets. Because I still think the Yankees are a viable team. I like Aaron Boone. They've got some really nice sticks. They've still got, you know, they're the Yankees. They've got, you know, virtually unlimited payroll. But if I said to you, Giants, Jets, Mets, because those are viewed as really dumpster

fires. one of them over the next three or four years is going to remove themselves from that group and start winning. Are you optimistic about one of those three? The New York Mets. And I don't say that because my wife is an absolute diehard Mets fan. It has been for 40 plus years. I think I'm a believer in Buckshaw, Walter. Yeah. And I think he'll come in and they need that veteran presence. And they were in the World Series, what, six, seven years ago. So it wasn't that long ago when they were near the top of the mountain. So I think the Mets, I would pick. I like Brian Dable's staff that he assembled. I don't know about Daniel Jones. Zach Wilson, we certainly don't know about.

And those two franchises that Jets and Giants haven't won a playoff game in a decade combined. So if I had to pick one of those three, I'm pretty confident Buck Showalter will make the Mets competitive, make them relevant. So I'd go with them. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a foreign.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags.

Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're

Off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size.

Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a whole. forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United

States Forest Service and the ad council. Finally, you have a book I can see behind you. Belichick, which was again, classic Ian O'Connor, dogged journalism and reporting. So I saw a story this weekend, Brady, and I don't know what to believe on social media. I mean, the less I read it, the better. But that Brady would consider the 49ers. And I do think there are jobs. I mean, you came back and you're a columnist in New York. Those are prestigious jobs.

You didn't need to be a columnist. But there are calls you get in your life and go. that's worth having a glass of wine with my wife and talking about. Right? And I do think San Francisco, Kyle Shanahan, it's not an offense that needs Tom to be, he matches Tom's intensity.

They're both very smart, very intense. There's a Belichickian feel to it. You know that's important to Tom. Ariens is too loose. It would be an upgrade over Jimmy G. Maybe Tom's got a little of that. It's his hometown. It was his favorite team.

I think he has, it's also an offense that doesn't Ian ask the quarterback to carry them. It's really a run-centric offense. Do you think he take the call and give it a week or two thought? Not only do I think he take the call, Colin, I think he's coming back. I never thought this was the end of Tom Brady's football player. In fact, when he made his announcement, I don't think he used the word retirement in it. And so, listen, I had a conversation with him on the phone for, about 45, 50 minutes, 2017. We were talking about him playing at age 47, 48, never mind 45,

but he did set 45 as a goal. He never falls short of his goals. And he actually did. So I don't think this was planned. I do believe, and I always thought this, that something happened down there that hasn't really fully been detailed yet anyway. I never thought he was going to love Bruce Aryan style the opposite of Belichick with a motto, win or lose, we booze. That is not Tom Brady's philosophy on football in life. So I think he'll either play for the 49ers after. I do think he'll take a year off, but I think he comes back and either plays for the 49ers or Josh McDaniels in Las Vegas. So those would be my two franchises to watch. And I think people will say, you can't take a year off at 45, come back and win a Super Bowl at 46. Well, he's now

created yet another challenge for him to conquer by stepping aside for a year. and doing it with yet another franchise. So now I'm going to get eight. I'm going to be two ahead of Michael Jordan, and I'm going to do it with a third franchise, and you're telling me I can't do that at 46 and 47. Well, guess what? I'm going to do it.

So to be honest with you, Colin, I would be shocked if he doesn't play again. You just convinced me. You've literally rocked my world. I literally... Well, you know him better than I do. Well, no, I don't. I don't.

I do not. He did not talk to me for the book. I don't have any sort of personal relationship. Well, that was my only one-on-one with him was for ESPN.com. And it was about five years ago. And it was long, but I do not pretend to know him. But I know a lot of his friends and have talked to them extensively about this and other subjects, about Belichick a lot over the years.

And they would be surprised if he doesn't play. again. And that Aryan's relationship I never thought was going to last. It was productive while it did last, obviously. But he went to a coach who was the exact opposite of Bill Belichick. And it was a short-term thing. And now I think he's ready to try it with a different franchise and again, get to ring number eight, be two ahead of Jordan, maybe go down as the greatest American team sport athlete ever. certainly that would enhance his claim. Yeah, I never liked Ariens taking repeated shots at Tom publicly. I think you can do it once twice.

Sometimes it sounded personal, a little harsh. I think that's Bruce's authentic personality. But in my years of covering athletes, even the gracious ones, you have to use discretion when criticizing them publicly. And Colin, I was at his first game in New Orleans, I believe, and they lost. at first game with Tampa Bay and Ariens criticized him after that game in his post-game presser, I couldn't believe it.

I remember writing about that. Belichick never would have done that. Bill was tough on Tom at all times in practices and film study and so forth. But criticizing Tom Brady after game, he did that very rarely over two decades. Ian O'Connor, Coach K, the rise and reign of Mike Shoshchevsky.

Absolute must read. My friend, it was great as always. Thank you so much. say hi to everybody. His wife, by the way, years ago, I had some speaking engagement at a bookstore. And somebody asked me about Ian O'Connor. And I said, I love Ian O'Connor. Oh, he's one of my favorites.

It was your wife. I told her to ask that question. So that was me. Great seeing you, man. Hey, thank you. Thanks for doing me a favor. Collin. Appreciate it.

The volume. Mama, what does the chicken say? Daw. Cat. Giraff. Giraff, really? Giraffe. You're not going to get it all right.

Just make sure you know the big stuff, like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Get it right. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic

not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Our imagination and our family bonds. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. It was wild.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.