The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Kevin Na: Leaving PGA For The LIV Tour, The Next Tiger, Phil Mickelson’s Evolution

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Colin is joined by LIV Tour professional golfer Kevin Na! They begin with Kevin’s decision to make the move from the PGA Tour to the LIV Golf tour and how difficult of a decision it was (4:00) They discuss what the biggest changes are between the two different tours and why it’s such a great experience playing events all around the world (7:00). They talk about the initial blowback players received for “defecting” from the PGA Tour and whether that has dissipated after some time (9:00). Kevin highlights his favorite course that most of the public has never heard of, and the experience of bringing his kids to new countries while he’s on tour (10:45). They discuss the challenging conditions players have to play under, including brutal weather and why golfers aren’t given enough credit for being professional athletes (13:30). They talk about the evolution of Phil Mickelson over the years and Kevin offers nothing but high praise for the legend (14:45).  They highlight Bryson DeChambeau’s journey from heel to hero as he’s become a superstar on the tour (16:30), and discuss whether another golfer will ever be able to capture Tiger Wood’s larger than life persona in the world of golf (19:30). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen should win.

She's an outsider to win the French friend. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Volume.

Well, Live Golf is redefining how golf is experienced and enjoyed supercharging the sport across the globe with innovations and team competition. a really electrifying event and an atmosphere that welcomes fans from all backgrounds. It's the F-1 of golf, a truly unique event. Stars come out for a celebration of sport, entertainment, and culture played in some of the world's most iconic venues. So in addition to world-class golf, you get a festival off the course, incredible food, live music, and a fan village pack with games and challenges for young and old. It's all in the line when Liv Golf comes to Chicago's Bowling Brook,

Golf Club. I'll be there August 8 through the 10th. Players will be fighting for places at both ends of the individual standings while the U.S. players have another chance to push for Ryder Cup selections. That's big, too. So it's a chance to see 54 the game's best players at Bowlingbrook Golf Club. Of course, that's open to the public. I'll be there. This marks another major step forward in LiveGolf's commitment to build the more inclusive accessible game of golf. It's a can't miss experience. Grab your tickets at LiveGolf.com. That's L-I-V-Golf. or if you can't make it this time, you can follow every shot live and exclusively on Fox Sports. Well, the Live Tour makes its stop in Chicago, just part of the journey of Live and its unique style and its popularity.

And anybody that listens to me knows that I have supported the Live Tour from the beginning. I never loved the way the PGA Tour, which was officially a charity, treated some of its golfers. and I had said for years that Greg Normans and Phil Mickelson's had verbally come out and said they were disappointed. And so when they left, I supported them and still do. Kevin Knaw also made that decision. And, you know, when I defended live golfers, one of the things I said was, you know, these guys grew up wanting to be on the PTA tour. They dreamt of the U.S. Open and Pebble Beach and the Masters. So this was a hard decision.

A lot of people looked at the dollars and said, well, it's easy. No, when you have a dream and you land it, it's hard to separate you from that dream. Do you remember, Kevin, the day, the week, the car ride, when you and your family decided, I'm going to leave the PGA tour, and do you remember the emotional moment of that, the epiphany? Yes, I do. It was an uneasy decision. I thought about it for weeks. I discussed it with my team, my family. And I haven't had a talk with Jay Monaghan before I left.

I literally called them, you know, with the paper, when I had the offer and I had the contract. And I weighed a bunch of options. But at the time, there were some of the things that some of the players would have wanted to see changing the PGA tour, the direction the PGA tour wanted to go. And none of those things were happening. And when the lead was forming and the offers were going out, and it was a great opportunity for me because I played the PGA tour for 19 years. And I loved every minute of it. And I was grateful to be there. I enjoyed it.

It was a great platform for me to play. And I'm grateful and thankful. But when this opportunity came along to play this team style with individual team, play around the world. and at the same time, you know, have some security. Not that I didn't with the PGA Tour, you know, I was pretty successful out there as well. But it felt like it was a new challenge and it was exciting. And a lot of the great names of the game of the golf were joining. And I wanted to be a part of it.

I wanted to be a part of this new adventure. And that's the reason why I made the job. Yeah, and I think, you know, it's something to remember. The word globalization, You grew up in California of Korean descent. You grew up in California. You're a global citizen. To some degree, my mom's from England.

We all are or descendants of it. But we see this with all businesses. And I know as I've aged and experienced travel, I love the idea of every, I love the idea of traveling. I love the idea. I've moved to six different companies. When you go to the live tour, was their anxiety, were their nerves?

Take me to your first six months. This is a whole, it's like a new job for you. Yeah, it was different. The biggest change I felt was, the music was so easy for me. I really enjoyed the music on a golf court. That part, I have no issue. What was a bit of a transition, and it took me a little bit to get adjusted, was the shotgun start, starting on a random hole.

You know, there's a flow of that golf course. right. You start on one or ten, you know, and you know where you're at. You know, like, some of the holes, the, the stretch you got to take advantage of. Some of the holes you kind of have to be, you know, you know, you want, pars are good. That kind of disappeared. And so that part was a bit, bit awkward in the beginning. I got used to it now. But besides that, it was cool to travel around the world and to see, like, look, I played the open. I played in Korea, Asia. But to go around the world and all these golf fans come out and say, you know, to come root for you, come watch you and tell me, asking people in the crowd, say, hey, Kevin, I want to see you walk in a pot, you know, like things like that. It was pretty cool to go different corners of the world and to play in the front of the crowd. And for them to see, you know, the big names of golf, like Brooks, DJ, Phil, all these guys, Bryson, you know, for them to see those guys in different parts of the world where before when everybody played the PG tour, it was very rare that we all got together and played in different parts of the world.

So I think that was very cool experience. And we can see that the fans are welcoming us in different parts of the world and enjoying us watching. And that's a rewarding feeling. You know, I think they're initially, in like any change in life, there's animosity. People don't like change. In America, 40% of Americans never live outside of the area code they were born in. Isn't that crazy? So when there was change, I remember going on the air and saying, yeah, there's going to be some animosity.

There's going to be some emotion with it. Did you think that's dissipated over the last year, that that initial shock is now, well, I can watch the Shambot at this tournament. I can watch Kevin Nah here. Is that there's a realization that this is what's happening in all business. Yeah, I think in the beginning, you know, like you said, People are not comfortable with change. And when we were making this challenge, you know, the PGA tour, a lot of the media, you know, they said it's not going to happen. They've been to fold in six months, four months, you know, it's never going to last.

But we've, the league has proven that we're sticking around. And, you know, and when our players, you know, Brooks won a major, Bryson won a major, you know, playing live. And we're, and these guys are still playing well in major championship and showing good performance. and watching us grow, they're starting to realize that we're not going, we're sticking around. And that's at the same time when the PG tour is asking for investment from PIF, then, you know, all those, you know, attacks of towards the players that made the first jump is kind of, it's been silenced a little bit. Yeah. So I have to ask you. I told my wife, you have three kids, you're married, three kids.

So family and golf, I felt live gave you an opportunity, perhaps to golf a little less, more time with family. And my take is if people are happier at home, they're more productive people. It's just a better way to live. And by the way, before you left the live tour, PGA golfers today had it easier than PGA golfers 40 years ago. So, I mean, everything changes. Tell me a course. that maybe isn't talked about a lot globally, that you love. If I said, Kevin, give me your favorite course that I would never guess and why.

Hong Kong Golf Club, amazing. Hong Kong Golf Club, that's been around forever. It's an old-style golf course. I think it's an amazing golf course. Every time I go there, I think the city is amazing. I think the golf course is amazing. I think the fans are amazing. Obviously, Correale, first time playing it this year,

the Jagging League of golf was a pretty good golf course, but I'm a little biased because of my current descent. And I love going to these Asia countries and playing, you know, me obviously being Asian, you know, the Asian's fans are going to, you know, feel like a bit more of a home crowd. And speaking of families, you know, in the past few years, we've taken, it's hard to travel with three kids internationally, but we've taken one or two. And at times at three, to these different countries and I was able to show my kids different parts. the world at a young age. And I think that's very, very cool for them to, you know, to learn different cultures to experience. And I think it really opens their eyes to the world, right?

And I, and we really enjoy that experience. And honestly, like, I'll be honest, like, I've never been happier at home. My golf game, honestly, it hasn't been that great. I feel like in the last few rounds, I have something that's click, and I think I'm going to, I'm about to go on a good run of golf. But look, at home, I'm home more often for my kids. I get to travel the world with my family. Look, looking back at it now, I think it was a great decision.

I've talked about this with my wife. And when we go back two and a half, three years ago, we go back, if we had a time machine, would we make the same decision? And the answer is yes. I've always believed that unless you're a golfer, and I've started playing a lot in the last three years. as I've got a little bit more time. I've got a lot more gray hair. And I think the grayer your hair gets, the more golf grabs into me.

And I've always felt an underrated part of golf is that when you guys are playing in the summer in parts of the globe, it's incredibly hot. And it's midday. And it's day after day after day. Has there been an event on the PGA or the live tour, where you thought to yourself,

I hope people realize I'm a real athlete here because I could fall apart. I mean, there are moments watching you guys and I'm like, I can see Phil Mickelson. I'm like, Phil looks tired. Do you think that's an underrated part of even your lib tour? You go to Hong Kong. A lot of you're playing in sometimes the steamyest of weather. Oh, yeah. I mean, Singapore is extremely hot.

repetitive, we played in Malaysia, extremely hot. Dallas this year we played in, you know. Oh, Dallas was rough. It was rough. And, you know, we travel, we went from Saudi Arabia to Australia. We went from Mexico City to Seoul. I mean, and literally, we have a 20-hour travel day. And as soon as we land, if it's during the day in the morning, we go straight to the golf course, we start boxing. That's not easy to do. And your time zones are all off. But we're on We get up in the morning, we spent all day on the golf course, we train, we practice. I mean, we might, we may not look like an athlete, but we are. I've always loved Phil Mickelson, and I read a, I don't think there's a book about him.

I don't think he loves the book, but I loved him more when I read the book because he's so unapologetically Phil Nicholson. And there was a point in his life, he probably, he probably ate a little too much. much. He was a little more obnoxious with tour members. Mickelson's a character, but what I love about him, he leans into it. Now, now you're getting the older, more mature, wiser, Phil Mickelson. Have you watched him, I guess? Have you seen the change in Phil in the last 20 years when you've been around him, ever, played with him, played against him? Have you seen it? Yeah, I've seen Skinny Phil,

shot pill, gambling pill, drinking pill. Look, he's been nothing but great to me. The first time I played with him, I was 21 years old, we played in the final group. That's the first time I played in the final group at the Phoenix Open. He ended up winning the tournament. I finished second, and he's been nothing but great to him. You can always go to win, ask for any advice, whether it's golf game, life, anything meeting you want.

He would give you his time, his sincerity. He's been nothing to great. I think he is the same way right now to all the younger kids out here. I think he's a great leader. Like whether, I don't, not obviously, you know, you can't please everybody. But a lot of the people out here respect him, and I personally respect him, and I'm a big fan of Phil, and I think what he's done for the game of golf, we had to be thankful for. And I also think sometimes, you know, I say this all the time,

I was not mature enough at 22, 23 to be like a professional quarterback in the NFL, you know, the leader of a billion dollar franchise. You guys are not on a team necessarily, although you are, the Ironheads on the Lib Tour now. But Bryson DeShambo is a fascinating guy. I didn't love him when he came out. I didn't like him. You know, the 13 pieces of bacon, the nine protein shakes. I'm like, this feels like he's selling me something.

It's too obnoxious. he pivoted over the last two years. I find him incredibly likable now. And I go back to, well, he was young. He was a good looking, big testosterone. Have you noticed his person? Now, he feels a little humbled, a little more, a little wiser. But I find him now incredibly likable.

And I didn't four years ago. I always joke to him. I was like, look, I was nice to you before you became, a big star. And before you were like, go on. I always liked him from Bay 1. You know, I remember talking to him before when he wasn't playing so good. And, you know, when he was doing the side straddle and I'd come talk to him about

on the putting, bringing into what his theories were. And I played with him in a QBE team play, a shark shootout. What year was this? I can't even remember. 2017 or 18, whatever it was, we teamed up. We finished third. And I got to know him pretty well that how he played the game and what his. you know, all these calculations that he made.

And it was fascinating. I mean, you would calculate putts off the green from what the fairies were running at Stimp and then from the green on to the hole that how many feet that is and that's stamp and you would with the slope and you would say this putts playing 47 feet. And he hit it like perfect speed or make it. And it was incredible. But I think people got to know him and watched him mature and grow up and became this likable. interesting character

and we need more characters like that in the golf game. Whether you like him or not I think most people do like him he's an interesting guy and what he's done with his body and his game, the transformation that he's gone through. It's incredible and he's an incredibly talented player. I always enjoy my conversations with him but look, you know, when you're 21, 22 and you're a millionaire

and you know, you think you have world by it's you know, it's a little bit of growing Sure. I bet that was the same way when I was younger. I turned pro at 17 and got on the tour when I was 20, you know, when you're 20. But you need a little bit of that to make it. So I think if you kind of look at that and get to understand the guy and get to understand the players, I mean, we're much better than football and other sports.

I mean, we're much more mature and more well-behaved, I'd say. But I think we watched him grow up. Yeah, you went straight to the pros at 17 years old. Finally, there's a legendary piece of footage. I'm talking to Kevin Nah about you and Tiger Woods when your speed play after you hit the put. And he does the same thing. Tiger, there's only two athletes in my lifetime, Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, that literally changed how I watched TV. I would cancel stuff on a Sunday to watch Tiger Woods.

Yeah. Do you think that was it, you know, it was sort of, it wasn't obviously pre-Internet, but it was pre-Tick-Tock. Golf felt, those games felt, those tournaments with Tiger. It just felt like otherworldly. You think golf will ever have that again? Yeah, I think so. I think Bryson is as closest to, you know, the excitement. I think Rory's pretty exciting.

I think ROM's pretty exciting. And Joaquin's become in that player as well. Yeah. I think there's different characters of the game that bring that kind of energy. Obviously, Tiger was, you know, his dominating and his, you know, his power and he's blowing the field away. And, you know, even though he's four back with nine to play, they're like, oh, he's got to win. You know, he's going to go on this crazy run. And I remember watching as a kid, and I'm, I mean, you know, being a fan of Tiger, it's incredible.

I mean, but I think there are characters that can follow his footsteps. or become maybe not that tidalwood's icon level, but, you know, up close to that level. And we can have three or four guys kind of equal tighter. You know what I mean? Sure. But I think golf has become more entertaining, more exciting than before. Back in 90s, I grew up watching golf, you know, in the 90s, you know. And, you know, I became a pro in the early 2000.

And I played all these with these guys on a senior tour that's playing now. And I think golf has become more entertaining. I mean, there's more characters of the game. I mean, you got, you know, Bryce and that bombs in, cuts corners. You got Rolri also, you know, Scotty Shuffler getting arrested. I mean, there's, I think it's entertaining. I mean, you know, we have some John Bailey, you know, the, you know, the former John Deleys of the guys right now. Look, I think golf is in a good place, except this division.

I think once we find a way to get the players back together more often, I think golf has got to go up another level. Yeah, I hope so. Kevin Na, a pleasure to talk to you. I love your stories. I'll be rooting for you. And thank you so much for taking time. Thanks, Colin. Thanks for having me on. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing off a few bets, all with Draft King's Sportsbook. As the season heats up, so do the bets. And Draft King Sportsbook has you covered. Home run props, odds boosts. Whether you're chasing dingers, jumping in midgame, midgame bets are great. There's always action to be had.

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I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, Tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement. homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night,

a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story

behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches,

the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Genschen win. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.