The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Kings/Warriors GM 4 Thriller, De’Aaron Fox Arrival, Lakers/Grizzlies Gm 3, Knicks/Cavs

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

First, Colin explains why Kings/Warriors has the makings of an all-time first round NBA Playoff series, and what makes the NFL Draft unique to every other pro sports draft. Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf joins Colin to discuss the Warriors leveling the series with the Kings at 2-2 in a thriller of a Game 4, if De’Aaron Fox looks is a Top 10 NBA player, what makes Draymond invaluable to the Warriors, if the Lakers are clearly superior to the Grizzlies, where the Knicks have a huge advantage over the Cavs. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Monday morning podcast. Hoops Tonight. Podcaster at the volume. Jason Timph and I will break down the Warriors game. What a sensational series.

That has been. Dremont Green doesn't block that shot. Kings hit the final jumper. The dynasty is arguably over. like I'm watching the younger version of the Warriors, try to beat the Warriors. I pick Golden State in six. I do not know if they can beat this King's team in Sacramento. I'm not sure they can.

I'll say this that, you know, for years, you all know this, is that, you know, the regular season, if you play hard, have a couple of decent scores, you can win a lot of games in the NBA. but I've always been reticent to criticize coaches for rotations because rotations get disrupted due to injuries, due to matchups. When you watch this Kings Warriors series, both of these coaches, you know, they're going with a hot hand. They're pulling out all the stops. It won't show up in the box score, but Dante DiVincenzo for the Warriors has had spurts where he's been incredibly valuable. Looney isn't a big score, but his presence around the rim was Subonis and tipping balls away from the basket or two Steph or Jordan Poole or Wiggins, you know, to get the break going. It's, I've said this about football for years.

I don't get caught up on play calling. You have no idea what a coach is seen and not seen on film the previous week. what works situationally, what are the tendencies. So it's easy to sit back and watch a game. I can't believe that third and eight call. It could have worked the previous four weeks against that team. They plug some holes up and it doesn't work that week or in that moment. I'm watching Steve Kerr and Mike Brown.

I mean, they are coaching every possession. I mean, Steve Kerr looks like a high school coach and a state final sudden death game. They are coaching every time down the floor. And some of the series is these teams are playing at such a rapid pace. You just got to let players play. I mean, these teams had all sorts of turnovers. The Kings and Dubs had all sorts of turnovers. You can't coach your way out of some of those.

These teams are so skilled. They're deep. And Dearon Fox and Steph are quarterbacks on the field, you just got to let them make mistakes. So I don't get too cut up in substitution patterns. These series are, you're going with what is working. I felt watching that Warriors Kings game, it was like I was watching four games in one. The energy shifted back and forth. The Kings had this game multiple times, had opportunities to seize control of the game

and had six, seven, eight, ugly, poorly timed turnovers. Or Sacramento wins this game. game. So the nuance of this series is it feels like an NBA championship. Now, you know, who knows what Denver is. They're not going to get tested much in round one. But I've watched every single team in the West play, all their playoff games. I feel like I'm watching the Western Conference finals with these two teams. I feel like I'm watching an old dynasty about to be replaced potentially by the Kings, a new dynasty in the West. It's just been a sensational first round series. I'm trying to think of something that matches it. It has been, I think it's going to go seven

games, and I'm not sure the Warriors can win on the road, but it's been about as good a first round series as I ever remember watching. These games have been fantastic. This is one of my favorite weeks of the year. As all of you know, if you've listened to me for years, I love the NFL draft, the architecture of it. I mean, the Jets were a great example last year, where they nailed their first four picks. The Seahawks nailed their first five, and it literally set the future up. I mean, if they get Aaron Rogers, the Jets will be able to play with anybody. Probably have to get a left tackle and another receiver, and the Jets will be able to play with anybody. They got two good receivers. They have a pass rush. They just need to upgrade at tight end, left tackle, wide receiver.

Joe Douglas will do that in the draft. I mean, Seattle, we thought was a dying franchise. They hit on two tackles, a star running back, an edge rusher, and two corners. Boom. You know, now they just need another edge rusher. They've got to get a couple of defensive linemen, maybe one more receiver, and the sky is the limit. So, you know, other drafts are different. Even a great college baseball player, he's not going to make an impact the following year in the Major League Baseball playoffs. As great as these NBA players are, Deerrin Fox now is just starting to, like, turn a franchise around. What is he in year five?

It takes a long time. These guys come out at 19 years old. NFL is different for a lot of reasons. Number one is guys come out at 23 and 24 years old. They're real men. They're physically ready to play. So if you hit on your first four or five picks, you know, people lament the L.A. Rams.

They have a second and two thirds. If they nail the right edge rusher, interior offensive lineman, and get a star back or another really high-end receiver in the third round, if they can get three starters, they turn around the franchise. They got McVeigh. they have Stafford, they have Aaron Donald.

You're getting grown-ups, men physically and emotionally, ready to play and start. So the Jets and the Seahawks last year are great examples. You nail your verse four or five draft picks. You can in that moment, you bring in five new starters that you don't have to pay for four to five years. It changes, shifts the paradigm of the entire franchise. I mean, look at how bad the Jets were. The mess Joe Douglas inherits. he even missed on a quarterback and a left tackle

to the three most important positions in football. He missed on both. And if Aaron Rogers signs and they hit on a left tackle and one other receiver, the Jets can play with anybody in this league, including the Chiefs, they can play with anybody in this league. So I love this week.

I think the NFL is the league of hope more than any other league. I remember when Bill Parcells years ago took over the Miami Dolphins and they were 1 in 15 the next year they won 11 games. And I read an article, Tony Sparano, I think, was Bill Parcell's choice as a coach, kind of a defensive guy. And I remember reading an article somebody wrote in the Miami Herald or, you know,

Fort Lauderdale paper about what Belichick really did was he took the middle of the roster to the end of it. It wasn't the top end of the roster. He made the locker room better, the weight room better. He went and got grinders and rotational players and backups and a handful of level starters. And he changed the entire culture of the organization with like 20 new players. And they weren't stars. Most of them weren't stars. So no sport allows you to re-create your roster and your football identity like the NFL. It takes two to three free agent signings, four home

runs in the draft, seven, eight new players to start at energy, especially draft guys who are cheap and you turn everything around. So I can't wait. Somebody is going to do a Jets or a Seahawks and I can't wait to watch it. The NBA playoffs are upon us. Twenty teams get in all trying to get that one crown. For last minute, amazing deals to watch your favorite NBA team. It can be the warriors, it could be the kings, it could be the Sixers, it could be the Bucks,

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$20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download the GameTime app. Enter the code Colin, C-O-L-I-N for $20 off. NBA playoffs, baseball season just starting here in April, NHL as well, no matter where you live, get out, have some fun this week and this year. Download the GameTime app, last minute ticket deals. Lowest prices guaranteed.

Imagine an Olympic. where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Colin, how you doing, man? what a game. Harrison Barnes with the shot of his life, he had a chance to erase all the pain and suffering from the 2016 finals that he left it long.

Well, they needed that Draymond Block. They needed the 22 from Jordan Poole. I feel like I'm watching the younger warriors take on the old warriors. They Stefan Deerran get baskets, get great looks when they want.

You have enforcers. I mean, they really needed Jordan Poole's game. Now, can he do it the road because he was so bad in the first two games at Sack. But if they can get that kind of effort from Jordan Poole, that Draymond Block is the block of the year for the Warriors. So listen, I don't know if they're going to win this series because I don't know if they can win in Sacramento.

I really don't. But you talk about a win for the league. Oh, what a great series. Oh, my gosh. You know, it's funny with Jordan Poole. I actually had a buddy text me a few. days ago. And he goes, hey, like Austin Reeves, DeAngelo Russell, Desmond Bain, Jordan Pool, like rank him. And I can't remember exactly where I had him, but had him somewhere in the

middle. But when I responded to him, one of the things I said was, like, I think the best individual skill out of any of those players, like the, if you were ranking all their skill sets in individual areas, the highest number you'd see would be Jordan Poole and his ability to drive the ball to the basket. His foot, his foot speed, his ability to beat people off the dribble is a real weapon. And I thought in this particular game, that was the biggest way that he contributed was beating people off the dribble and getting to the basket. They desperately needed something out of him, especially in a night like this where the Kings shot so well. They needed something to offset that. Look at the box score. They both shot 40, 41% on threes. Both shot over 47%

from the floor. Both were great from the free throw line. 15 to 18 for the Kings, 22, a 24 for the Warriors. They both had 44 rebounds. Both had over 25 assists. Steals about the same. Turnovers, points in the paint, 50 to 46. I mean, it was an incredibly even game. That's why in games like that, it's the Draymond block. It's one miss jumper or it goes the other way. I mean, you look at, now, there was a free throw disparity early, but it evened itself out mostly by the end of the game. I don't, you know, the one thing about the Kings is they always, they feel a shooter shy.

Now, some of that is when you play the Warriors, you know, Steph and Clay and Pool and Wiggins, they have more than anybody. It feels like if almost you just, if you put Jordan Pool on the Kings, it would literally be the guy. But I feel like the Warriors always just have one more three, one more shooter. And that's the difference. And over the course of the Kings building this puppy, they can see that. They got Davian Mitchell off the bench.

Can they go find a great three-ball shooter off the bench? So it's just a process of filling in the blanks. They've got their sub bonus. They got their coach, their Deerrin Fox, Davian Mitchell off the bench. They've got most of the boxes checked. They felt like, you know, they hit that last three. It's different. They feel like just one three-point or shy.

You know what? I watched this tonight in the second half and I'm like, outside of Denver, is this the Western Conference final? Like, are these new, now that the Warriors are at full strength, are we watching essentially the Western Conference final in round one? I remember, I had a similar thought after the playing games. And everyone's like, oh, man, the wolves in the Lakers. they're both terrible. What an ugly basketball game. And I have like a completely different feeling about this. I think all of these teams are awesome. I think the Kings are awesome. I think the Warriors are awesome. I think the Lakers are awesome. I think the Sons are awesome. The Nuggets have been arguably the most

impressive team in the first round here in the Western Conference. And like again, like what you're seeing here is it doesn't, it's a two seven matchup and it's a first round matchup. But these are two teams from an overall talent standpoint that are typically the types of teams that you'd see in later playoff rounds. They're incredibly evenly matched. I want to give a special shout out to Deere and Fox because there's this thing that happens. And I mean, we've even seen the reverse side of this with Darius Garland on the Cavs this year as he's really, really struggled to just be consistently effective throughout the series. Every time we see a young player kind of rise up the echelons of the NBA, there's always this question like, is his game going to work when they get to the playoffs?

and some guys struggle to get separation. Some guys struggle in the physicality. Like Trey Young had a really good game in game three against Boston. That's the outlier. He's had like six straight playoff stinkers before that. You know what I mean? Deerrin Fox, his game translates so well to this level. And I actually think you'll find this interesting, Colin,

because you've been super critical of this type of player. Right. This ultra-athletic point guard. That is this unbelievable downhill force that plays with passion and energy. that player has failed time and time and time again in NBA history. And the thing that separates, in my opinion, Darren Fox from the others is he legitimately has outrageously good shooting touch

from everywhere on the floor. And so whoever's guarding him has to give a certain amount of space just to attempt to contain the drive. And so and when he, and he's deadly on those shots. Well, and also, Westbrook and a wall especially, they didn't play with a ton of self-awareness. In their prime, they were going a thousand miles an hour. Deerrin plays with really good pacing.

He knows when to slow it up. I mean, you look like you're watching a 12-year veteran. Like he knows when to speed it up. Steph does this. You know, when, you know, he'll go right through traffic. He's trying to speed the tempo up. And it's not really to get a shot. It's just kind of to see if he can find a little crevice and get to the basket if he can't.

Then he pulls it up and waits for the bigs to come down. Deeran's got a real understanding of pace and tempo. He's not playing with his head down. Everything, you know, it's like Patrick Mahomes. He sees the field. He sees the court. He sees everybody. Deeran Fox is really smart and he plays like a really smart basketball player.

Steph Curry is really smart. Some of this is just guys. Deerrin also. Not that he's not vertical, but he's kind of, he's, I would, you know, if I was a scout, I'd say, smooth, smart, beautiful offensive game. It's gorgeous. I mean, mid-range, outside, everything is pretty. So I don't really put him in that.

You know, and I feel like he's a little bit like Steph. Probably I trust Deerran more in a mid-range, Steph on a three. But I think their games are. so much about manipulating pace and tempo. John Wall never did. John was just, get me the ball, and I'm going to race. Everybody down the floor, and the wings are like, bro, hold up. I can't keep out with you.

And Westbrook has a little bit of that. It's a hundred mile an hour fastball. It's the quarterback that has a fastball. You know, he throws it on the deep post. He throws it on the screen. It's a one tempo thrower. And so I think Deeran is, I think he's an all-time. I think next year he'll be, I think right now he feels like a top 10

player, maybe 10, but I think if they get past the Warriors, he's going to be a top 10 player. Because I feel like he's just 12-ish. And then you're watching them in this series. You're like, I mean, if I told you today, John Morant or him, I'd take Deerone Fox. He's been great in every game. This is an outstanding defense in a high-stakes playoff series where he came in as the underdog. And he's been great in every game. Like he, I mean, look, like, people always get a little freaked out when we start

talk about lists because you feel bad about bumping guys. But I mean, here's the deal. Like, he is performing at this level against this type of defense at a higher level than most of the players around the league. I think that's completely reasonable. I think, you know, it's funny over the course of the series, I've been talking a lot about how the kings have no answer for Steph Curry. And that's a big part of why I have it. I've been yet to relinquish my stance that the Warriors will win the series. And I still feel that way. I pick them in six. I'm going to stick with that for right now. But the reality is, is like, the Kings should feel really good about their chances because the same thing is in reverse. Like they, I did think it was interesting that we didn't see as much Gary Payton today.

They spent a lot of time with Draymond Green on Deer and Fox today, which is a super interesting adjustment. Yes. Yeah. Also just what a, again, what a, what an amazing luxury as a coach to be able to do that. And they did a similar thing last year in the finals, if you remember when they moved Draymond Green out onto Jalen Brown. because he can just, the thing with Dremont is he has these obnoxiously long arms. First of all, his defensive performance down the stretch of this game was so ridiculous. And there was a lot of talk over the last couple of days. Oh, the Warriors better without Dremont, which everyone just gets dumber whenever that happens.

They were 11 points better per 100 possessions with him than without him in last year's postseason. They were 14 points better with him than without him in this regular season. Like that argument is dead on arrival. I can't believe it ever even gets brought up. He blew up some plays around the rim. You're thinking of the block. Oh, my God. It's the bonus.

He had another play. Subonis is coming down the floor on a short roll. It's a two on one. Harrison Barnes is standing wide open in the dunker spot, ready to go up and dunk it. And Sabonis goes to pass it to Harrison Barnes. And Draymond just pokes it out of Sabonis's hands. He blew up a two on one. That's a basket 95% of the time in the NBA. Like he was unbelievable defensively in this game. But even with him, he has to give a little bit of ground to Deerran Fox to try to contain that drive. And on that final shot, the one that Deerran made that brought it back to one. Like you got a great contest on it, but that's what great players do.

And Dearen Fox has done that this entire series. He can adjust his release based on where he is on the floor and he can knock these shots down. Well, and also, Draymount's got really good hands. Clay Thompson's are okay. Wiggins, I think. I've really noticed it with Wiggins. He doesn't quite have his wind yet.

And his hands, sometimes when you don't have your wind, you can lose your legs or you get sloppy. Wiggins today had four or five balls that he just couldn't secure. For a guy that's not a great shooter, Dremont's got strong hands and good hands. Like, he touches it. He gets it. His timing. There's certain players in the league that, and because, you know, I employ Dremont, one of his many employers, by the way, he's talented guy. You know, people are going to, you know, say, Colin, you have a bias. First of all, I've said this a thousand times in my career. Every great team of my life, Haslam for the Heat, Rodman for the Bulls,

Derek, Rick Fox for the Lakers, Lambere for the Pistons, Draymond Green, all great dynasties, Bruce Bowen for the Spurs have a feisty, annoying, tough guy. And his job, he's in the league because he's smart enough to know. I mean, Bruce Bowen scored, he could score 20 a game in the league. He's like, I knew on this team, my way in the league. to rings was to play the way I had to play. Do the stuff that nobody else wanted to do. If you don't get Dremont Green, like,

if you don't understand, have you ever noticed out around outside the arc? They bring him up. They want him to have the ball in his hands, him to set the screen, him to make the pass. Like, that organization puts him in the crosshairs.

You make a mistake out there. It's a lamp or a dunk the other way. Like, this organization has so much trust for Dremon with the basketball in his hands. He's such, we think of him defensively, but as you watch him, Jason, he's such a catalyst, his passing, his screening, his hands. If you, if you don't, people that don't get him, you don't get the game. No.

Like anybody knows that Deerrin Fox and Steph are great. That doesn't take, you know, you're watching Jalen Brunson. He's obviously a such a unique, fun player. Guys like Draymond, like they just don't. Sometimes I watch Drayman and I think he should open a clinic on how to make the NBA as a star and average eight a game. Like he does so many things that you don't think they like screening, passing. He does so many little things well that you don't necessarily like you don't get points in

a box score for screening or those little he'll screen those little touch passes that don't get the assist but they're the pass before the assist. The incubator of it. Like he doesn't get a lot of credit for that, but he was so big. today to your point. Yeah, you know, it's funny because a lot of people have been comparing him in Dylan Brooks, which drives me crazy. They'll be like, oh, they both make the, oh, give me. I've never seen Draymond Green shove a cameraman just to be a jerk. Okay. Like, there's, there's a difference between like, like, just being a jerk and being a guy who's kind of a physical instigator. There's no doubt

that Draymond's a physical instigator. And Dylan Brooks is that and more. And the other thing, too, is like, Dylan Brooks is a bad, is a limited offensive player from a skill standpoint. that doesn't get it and we'll take 11 shots in a quarter in a road playoff game in Los Angeles. And you're like, dude, what the hell are you doing? Like, Draymond has his offensive limitations, but he understands his role. And I love how you pointed out all those little things

because it's, you're right. They love to have the ball in his hands. They've been running a ton of Steph high pick and roll as this series has progressed. Like there was a play at the end of this game where Andrew Wiggins made a floater. Steph runs the high pick and roll. They trap him.

He makes the drop off pass to Draymond. He's rolling down the basket. Looney and Wiggins kind of mess up. they both cut. And you never want to both cut because now you're getting in each other's way. It's better for one guy to cut, one guy to state the three point line. And Draymond, like, hangs in the air and just waits barely for Wiggins to kind of break open and hits him in stride and Wiggins makes the floater. And I'm like, man, that was kind of an impressive play in traffic and the short roll. They like having the ball in his hands. He can disrupt guys below

the rim defensively. He can disrupt guys above the rim defensively. Tap out, rebounds is a big one. There'll be like a ball in the air and he knows he can't go get it. But he'll just run up and just tap at it and just keep it alive for one of his guards to come in and make a play. I thought he was magnificent down the stretch of this game defense. I also thought Steph did a pretty decent job and a couple of switches against Dierren Fox. Steph is an underrated athlete from the standpoint of his physical profile. We always think of him as a small guard, but he's like six three and he's pretty strong. Like he's actually got a good amount of weight to him.

And a big play there at the end, like when Deeran tried to attack him on the final possession, He'll get out and bump and knock him off of his ground a little bit. Or when he gets down, he'll bump him a little bit, understanding that's allowed in the postseason. Like, he can hang in those matchups a little bit. I thought as a team, the Warriors hocking to loose balls down the stretch was a big part of why they ended up coming out on top. I will say this, though, and I wonder what your opinion is.

You know, I'm a big believer that the regular season is a good indicator of how a team is going to perform in the postseason. They got a little sloppy down the stretch that. They had back-to-back turnovers. there was that Jordan Poole attempted pass to Clay Thompson in the quarter that Malik Clark grabbed. And then there was the illegal screen from Kavana Looney. And it's interesting to me because all season long, they've been just a little sloppy in those situations compared to previous seasons. And it almost burned them tonight.

And so I really do think that's something that they better sharpen up if they intend to make a longer playoff. And certainly to win this series. I think Jordan Poole's game is a little sloppy. It's a little loose. It's a lot of one-handed stuff by the rim. I think Clay had a very good regular season. You can put Clay in spots offensively where he's uncomfortable with the ball a little bit.

He's a classic catch-and-shoot guy. I thought Sacramento, I almost tweeted this, they had about six turnovers today, and they all came at the worst times. God, the Kings had like, I mean, they both had about the same number of turnovers. They had way too many, but the Kings came at bad times. Like they trail by three.

Now it's six. You know, they can take a lead. Steph comes down, hits a three. Now they trail by four. The Kings had a lot of opportunities in this game. They're going to look at film on the way home. And that's Mike Brown and that staff are going to be like, we gave this game away. They may have had six to eight turnovers with opportunities to like extend a two point lead or take a lead.

And they failed on so many of them. So I kind of feel like Sacramento almost ended the dynasty. And I think they're going to look at that film on the way home. And they're going to think, we just gave one away. We just gave a game away. They outplayed Golden State early. Too many turnovers. They're a tough out, man.

They are the baby warriors. They're a tough out. And they're really smart. As I said at the start of this, I just feel like they need another shooter. And they'll probably get that in the draft. or somewhere in free agency. I actually think if they upgrade the Subonis position at any point, they could be super dangerous.

Because like the unsung heroes of the series have been, well, I say unsung, the real heroes of this series have been Malik Munk and Deer and Fox and the simple fact that nobody can ignore them. Malik's been good in this whole series, and it's funny because the Lakers couldn't afford to keep him, but that's the only reason he's not a Laker right now. He was one of the rare bright spots last year.

Just an excellent shot creator that can beat people off the dribble and knock down threes. He just played. he played so well that the Lakers were financially incapable of retaining him. You know, it's funny. I actually think the Kings deserve to be slight favorites right now. They've played well enough, and they have two games at home. It's pretty simple.

That said, these games are going to reach a fever pitch of intensity and drama and stakes. And so I still lean, I still lean warriors just because there's, look, if it's game five, and it's 100 to 100 with three minutes left, there's no doubt that the Warriors will be more comfortable in that situation simply because they've been in those situations before. The same goes for game seven. Again, the Kings should, I bet you they were positive in the locker room. I bet you they feel good in their film session.

They should feel confident. But I think these games are going to get even more sweaty palms, even more high drama. And I just trust the Warriors a little bit more. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not a lot of, only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports. It's in entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. What was your take on that Lakers blowout of the Grizzlies yesterday? Do you think the real matchup is more like the first quarter or more like the last three quarters? Well, I think the Lakers, I think we both chose the Lakers. I think they're better. I always felt there was two things that were true about Memphis. They were, they're deep and they're inexperienced. And I'm not saying depth and experience or everything, but it's, they feel like they need

another score to me. You know, Jah was sensational. But I, I just feel like they need another dependable score. I mean, you, you really don't want somebody scoring 45 points in a playoff game. You really don't. I mean, that's just, I mean, everybody's in awe of John Moran. It's like, you know, you can go back to the Kobe stats. Like the Lakers were awful when he scored over 35 points, right? And so, you know, Jaw starts playing well. He plays downhill. And it's fun. It's magical. But I just, I never, I mean, listen, they were a two seed. The Lakers were a seven. And I felt was, you know, I sit on the air.

If I said it on the air, I believe it, I'm like, I think the Lakers are going to win the series. There were a 43 win team, right? When's the last time a 43 win seven seed, you take them over a two seed? Like coffee. And Memphis was one of the best home teams in the league. So I just don't, I don't feel. And we're seeing it with Cleveland, by the way. You know, really young.

have some depth. But Garland and Mitchell, I mean, the Knicks aren't even getting a good series from Julius Randall. He's not playing well. And so I just don't feel like, I think Sacramento, regardless of, I think Sacramento is really close to being a championship team, like a player away. I don't with Memphis. I don't always love, I feel they're a little, a little less mature than Sacramento, a little chippier. little less self-awareness.

Their stars had some problems. The King Star is like Steph, mature. So it's not that I don't buy into Memphis, but I really never bought into them as a championship team. I really don't. In fact, if you told me the two really young teams in the NBA I like, I would say it's Sacramento and Cleveland. Cleveland's been disappointing.

Like these playoffs, basically Jason, nothing surprised us except Cleveland. I mean, that's the only series where if you had a told anybody, yeah, Julius Randall, good game one, doesn't do anything, and they lead three one. That would be a surprise. I think almost everything we're saying, including the Lakers Grizzlies, we all kind of expected. We trusted LeBron and AD over the last three weeks. They just won a lot of close games and they won a lot of games against, for the same reason, they're winning this one. Yeah, no, I 100% agree. I actually did pick the Knicks to win that series, but I didn't feel super confident about it.

The, um, that, and like that particular series to me is just a great example of versatility in the playoffs. Uh, the calves can only run pick and roll. They can't do anything else. That's, they, they have to run their pick and roll offense. And if it doesn't work, they fall apart. The Knicks have the ability to attack in a bunch of different ways. As a matter fact, they've run more than twice as many ISOs as, as, as Cleveland has. And the problem is, is a lot of times in the playoffs, it becomes matchup hunting. And Julius Randall and Jalen, even though Julius Randall hasn't played well, Jalen Brunson and Julius Randall feel way more comfortable attacking mismatches

in different spots on the floor, which allows them to kind of play different styles as the game shifts. But you're right, it's been pretty, it's been pretty kind of like chalk, I guess you could say it down the line, except for that Milwaukee Bucks Miami Heat series, which is entirely based on Janus. And I don't even, unless Janus doesn't play in game four,

I just don't, I just am not paying. The Miami Heat are tiny. They're tiny and Milwaukee's going to win game five and game seven. they're going to probably win game four or two and win the series. I just am not worried about that unless Janus is in some sort of serious injury situation. I'm glad you said that about Memphis because I actually agree. I don't think they're close either.

A couple things. The only position I think that they have really, the only spots that I feel really good about, like really good about are Jaron Jackson and Jha. Desmond Bain has been bad in almost every playoff game that he's played, especially over the last couple of years. He struggles mightily to create his own shot off the dribble. And guys are good at chasing him over those screens to lessen the quality of the shots. And he can't make like Austin Reeves has soundly outplayed him in this series.

You know what I mean? The Grizzlies have severe limitations in shot creation and off ball offensive skill. I was talking with a buddy yesterday about this. Like what scares me for the Lakers is they can get lazy. And you saw that like I tweeted right after the first quarter yesterday. I'm like, just get ready for them to do the bare minimum to try to win this. game. You know, the whole game, it was like, oh, they got back to 11. I guess we should start trying again. I'd get it up to 16, 17. And then they'd have three bad possessions in a row and it'd be

a 10. And we're like, all right, call time out. All right, let's go get control of this game again. Like, I think the Lakers are so much better than the Grizzlies. I think that people are so to lie. But to your point about the arrogance, the way Jha was acting in that fourth quarter, like, oh, I've got these guys. Like, I'm like, they're not even playing anymore. They're jogging back in transition. They're barely guarding you. In the first quarter, you couldn't even get a clean look. He shot two for 10 on two point shots before the fourth quarter. Like they, they have figured out the job pick and roll because Jared Vanderbilt and Anthony Davis have taken away his floater and they've shut off the ring on him. They've kind of figured that out. Memphis to me

has so far to go. But with the Lakers in their lapses in execution and effort, what freaks me out for them there is Sacramento and Golden State because Memphis is a young athletic team that loves to play fast, but they're unskilled, like remarkably unskilled compared to other NBA teams. Sacramento and Golden State love to play fast and they are super skilled, like at every position. So like they will, those teams, if they have those same brief lapses in judgment and effort in execution, the Lakers will get run off the floor by the Warriors and Kings. So like as good, it's weird. I feel so confident that the Lakers are going to beat the Grizzlies, but I am so hesitant to pick them as a team that can make a real run

because it is part of their identity. As soon as they start to feel even remotely comfortable, LeBron and Anthony Davis go, how can I start conserving energy? And it's going to be something that gets them beat, I think. Yeah, I mean, I also think that the question we asked about Memphis all year, because Jaws not a great shooter. He's a great athlete. He's got the floater.

He finishes at the rim. If you take the rim away, you take a chunk of this field goal. I mean, it's the Westbrook. He's a better shooter than Westbrook. But if you took the rim away from Russell Westbrook, he can have really bad nights and it gets into his head really fast. Even great shooters. I mean, LeBron for a big chunk of his career, like didn't like Biggs around the basket because if he lost confidence in his three, he could always beat guys off the dribble, score, and get back into it. And so LeBrono is like, liked his Bosch and as Kevin loves, stay clear.

I think at this point in his career, he shoots threes, makes him, misses him. Nothing's in his head. He's kind of graduated last couple years. But Jaws not a great natural shooter. So if he's not hitting the three and the rims closed off, you're not beating people on floaters and mid-range jumpers. And so I think when I look at this team all year, my takeaway was, well, if you shut Jha down a little, bit and make him shoot 41%. Who's the second dependable

score? There isn't one. And they just don't have one. I mean, it's, Malik Monks having a better series than I thought he would have. But when I say the Kings need another score, they don't need another great score. They need about a 16 point a game score. I mean, you could put it like a,

I don't know if he'd fit, but like a Dennis Schrooter, just another, you know, somebody that's a better shooter, but kind of a 16 point a game kind of player. I think, I think the Grizzlies need another star. You know, like an Anthony Davis to be a title team. I don't think they're particularly close.

I don't think they're terribly mature. As you said about Brooks, self-awareness is not a strength. They're just deep. They're deep and energetic. And physical. And a ton of energy. Yeah. And that's what they are.

Deep physical teams. I mean, the reason the Pistons won championships is Isaiah is one of the most underrated stars of our lifetime. Lambert could hit outside shots. I mean, that team had streaky shooters. You're Vinnie Johnson's. You know, that was the bad boys team. I don't think Memphis is close to his gift that is that team offensively. And this is the offensive era.

That was a defensive era. So I just, I think, I think they're a star away. I don't think they're a player away. You could give me a, you could give me a good shooter off the bench for Sacramento. And I'd be like, all right. If you told me they won two championships in four years, I'd be like, oh, I see it. I don't think Memphis is close to that. I really don't. Yeah, I know. I mean, like, the reality is, is when, like, John Morant, when they shut off the rim, literally nobody else feels comfortable creating a shot, other than Jared Jackson, who's at a decent series barreling his way to the rim and just running through guys.

But we talked about this after game two, but how, like, you can manufacture wins in the NBA if you have rim protection and you just play hard. You know, we talked about that a lot in that particular. show. Memphis. Exactly. Memphis wins a shit ton of regular season games. Why? Because they're huge. It's like Brandon Clark, Darren Jackson, Stephen Adams, just relentless offensive, uh, or relentless offensive rebounding and just defensive physicality. Right. On the perimeter, they play super hard and physical. And then John Morant against

regular season coverages when teams are like, oh, it's a Tuesday and we got Memphis tonight. Let's just run our base drop coverage and we'll just see how. goes, you know, whereas in the playoffs, they scheme so much harder towards, you know, helping off a Dylan Brooks and ducking under picks so that Jock can't get ahead of steam and little things like that. And like that, that's just the reality is like, you need to have an extra gear you can get to in the postseason. And it's almost the opposite for Memphis because Desmond Bain goes down a level. Dylan Brooks actually tries to shoot more when he can't make him. John Morant, yeah, he made all the threes when they were down 20 and there was absolutely no pressure to make or miss, but it's a little

different when it's like you're down 27 to 13 in the early second quarter and they're daring you to shoot and you don't have that. And like it's a totally different game when the pressure rises and the stakes rise. That's why those pull up jump shots stop falling in those environments. So yeah, like I agree. I think I think Memphis, I mean, it's been coming for a while with how confident they've been. But I agree. I think I think the move is they need another legitimate shot creator, a guy who can put the ball on the floor and consistently generate offense against. against a set defense, exactly what they hoped Desmond Bain would be, which you can't be, unfortunately. That's right. Yeah, I think we're seeing in these playoffs, you know, cross your fingers on Janus and Embed's health. There's one real upset, and that's been the Knicks, who plays so well at home with that crowd. I mean, obviously, like the Chase Center gives the Warriors like four to five points. I mean, it just does.

I feel like Madison Square Guard gives the Knicks like four to five points. especially an effort team. They're not a terribly skilled team. They're long. They're aggressive. Effort teams. They just play with so much energy. And they've got a lot of young guys on that team.

So the Knicks are going to be, I'm surprised they're beating the Cavs. But that's about the only, I mean, once you go to seven games in the first round, you play your way out of upsets. I mean, if the Knicks beat the Cavs, then they are the better team, clearly. They're also, you know, they've had rebound advantages. As I watched that game, I think to myself, why was I so badly fooled on Cleveland? Like I said all year, I thought, man, they match up. I saw them play Boston twice.

I saw two times they played them. I thought they matched up great. They are twitchy. They're good on the wings. They got good looks. I'm like, man, they match up with Boston really well. And they may get beat in five games by the Knicks. So I'm like, why was I so badly fooled on it?

Like Garland hasn't delivered. I don't know the answer. But to your point, some teams, you get away with stuff in the regular season and then you just hit a complete ceiling. And maybe Cleveland's that team. But I have been fooled by the Cavs because Julius Randall outside of game one. I mean, what did he give him today? 11? I mean, just I don't even know if he scored that many.

He's just not, he hasn't been effective. Out of rhythm. the angle for sure, off the ankle. The Cavs are the perfect example of that regular season ceiling team. Like tons of rim protection, spam, pick, and roll. Like, and you play hard and you have a great home crowd. Like, if you do that, you can win 40 plus games in the NBA. But, like, the main reason why I was never a big believer in Cleveland is they were

literally one of the worst spot-up shooting teams in the league. Like, they're off-ball guys, like that three spot, whether it was Evan Mobley standing in the corner, or if it's Isaac Acorro, or if it's, you know, Lamar, Steve. or if it's, you know, Chetty Osmond or whoever it is, whoever that guy is has been a disaster, like all season long. And so it becomes, can Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell make a ton of extremely difficult pull-up jump shots? And they just have it. The Knicks have completely shut down their pick and roll offense. They have not had a counter that they can go to. Meanwhile, the Knicks can play a bunch of different ways. And they have a ton of skill off the ball. Josh Hart,

very skilled. Emmanuel quickly, very skill. Quentin Grimes, very skilled. So they have, when they're when you send extra bodies to Jalen Brunson and to Julius Randall, they're kicking to just better players. They're kicking to better players. And it is a team sport at the end of the day. Last thing I'll say about the Knicks, like Jalen, they took a bet on Jalen Brunson.

Such a big bet that they got cheap with Donovan Mitchell, let him go, which if you ask them, they'll say, we like Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson is like a legit star player in this league. I have a hard time thinking of a comp, in recent NBA history

because there's not many players who play like him but he's flat he's a he's a he's a like he's an assassin like competitor who targets your worst he's been just going at Chetty Osmond

every time he gets a chance in this series super comfortable working from every spot on the floor like the Knicks got a good one in Jalen Brunson and honestly Colin also has leadership skills you know classic Villanova guy stayed in school multiple years, was coached hard, had to play defense.

You know, Villanova doesn't recruit you if you won't play defense. So like he comes in, Villanova doesn't always have the most skilled players, all grownups. No squirly guys. Like they're all McHale Bridges, right? He's your classic Villanova guy. Ceilings a little lower, although it's not that low, but you're getting an adult. You get really high functional basketball intelligence, sets up plays. is if you watch Jalen over the course of a season,

and I watch a lot of Sixers Celtic games because I get on the treadmill at 430 Pacific, and that's my time to watch it. And so I watch a first half of a lot of NBA games, and I saw so many Sixers Celtic games. But one of the things you know with Brunson is there's a very legitimate argument that in terms of most valuable player, which he won't win because these bigs have rebounds and blocks and stats, he's as valuable as any player in the league to a team. Like he is, you take him out of the Knicks.

It's not even the same team. They don't move as well. They don't shoot as well. There are so many good guards. So many good guards. And most of the ones we love, the foxes, the staffs, the Jalen Brunson's, man, they're very quarterbackial. Oh, yeah. They're really adults.

I mean, they all kind of know when to turn it on, when to pull it back. I mean, Steph will hoist up a couple of shots and you kind of just roll your eyes at it. But when I watch Brunson, he's in such control. He's oh, and I think a lot of that, Jason, it's the Villanova in him. You know, Villanova is going to make you play defense. They're not going to let you be squirly. Not a lot of ISO stuff at Villanova. And you can see it in him.

He's just totally. And he led that. Villanova program, right? Like it's such a structured, you know, transfer portal world. You know, in a one and done world, Villanova is like this bedrock of stability and old school college basketball. And you can see it the way he plays. Like New York doesn't phase him at all. He is the point.

He's like, Walt Frazier, he's the point guard of the Knicks. He was built to be the point guard of the Knicks. Yeah, they churn out adult basketball players. I actually said in my series preview that I thought that Jalen Brunson had a chance to outplay Donovan Mitchell in large part on execution. Because Donovan Mitchell just has just a tiny bit of that Westbrook like, oh, I'll just shoot five possessions in a row. You know what I mean? Jaylon Brunson is so much more methodical in his approach and is much more making reads. As a basketball fan, I have thoroughly enjoyed his rise. I actually do think if Julius Randall can figure things out that they'll give the bucks or the heat a good fight in round. too as well. The Knicks are on the way up. It's very exciting.

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