The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Kyrie to Mavs Trade Reaction, Chris Mannix on Kyrie/Luka Fit, KD to Suns Rumors, LeBron Frustration

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

First (3:00), Colin gives his instant reaction to the blockbuster Sunday trade sending Kyrie Irving from the Nets to the Mavs, iand the best and worse case outcomes of the deal. Then, SI Senior NBA Writer - and host of Boxing with Chris Mannix - Chris Mannix and Colin discuss why the Mavs made the move for Kyrie (13:00), if Kyrie and Luka can coexist (16:00), if the Mavs have any shot to win the West (20:00), if the Lakers will regret not landing Kyrie for a second pairing with LeBron (24:00), and if KD to the Suns rumors have any legs (29:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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57. All right, everybody, instant reaction to a very lively pre-draft deadline in the NBA, which is February 9th. So we've got Kyrie Irving today, four different suits. Shooters liked him. Clippers, Lakers in L.A., Mavs were the three that jump out to me. And we talked about on our show on Fox Sports FS1 Friday. Clippers had more to give than the Lakers. And we find out that's what it came down to. The Brooklyn Nets liked what Dallas had to offer between draft picks, Spencer Dinwiddie, and another forward. You know, my takeaway is this is really about Luca Dantage, is that the Mavericks won a title previously, with a great European player, and they could never really get him an equal running mate.

Now, they did win a title against the Heedles, Miami Heedles, that team with J.J. Berrea and some veteran players and some length. And Dirk Novitsky. And what was dubbed a kind of a stunning upset is LeBron had his worst series of his career. But one of the things I thought Mark Cuban was starting to feel a little pressure is, okay, what are we going to do with Luca? We got to get him a running mate. Now, Luca's style, as everybody watching this that's an NBA fan knows, is very ball-centric.

You know, look at the numbers Jalen Brunson has put up, leaving Luca to go to the Knicks. You end up watching a lot of Luca offense as a teammate, and it can be really frustrating. Now, Kyrie Irving has played with Kevin Durant. He has played with LeBron James, so he has had teammates that have the ball, but there's nobody quite like Luca. So I think short-term, it would work long-term if it was a four-year deal. I think they'd butt heads eventually. Luca's the best arguably offensive player in the league right now. Some say it's not an argument.

Kyrie's the best scoring little guy in the league right now. A lethal left and right hand scoring at the rim. There's not a lot Kyrie can't do. But I read a report before I went on today that Dallas is looking at a two-year deal this year, finishing up than a two-year deal. That's what I'd be willing to do with Kyrie Irving. Can it work for a year and a half this year and next year? And then, you know, if you have to move them again, there's always a market for elite talent.

It could be in tech. It could be in broadcasting. It's in politics. It's in basketball. Art doesn't matter. There's always a market for elite talent. A couple of things. Here's why I like it.

If you look at the best defensive teams in the NBA, a lot of them are. are Eastern teams, Boston, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto. Clippers play real defense out west. But the Eastern Conference, especially at the top, a lot of really, really good defensive teams. The Warriors have decided this year that they're not going to play much. And so between Luca and Kyrie Irving, they're going to score out West. I mean, when they're both on the floor, they're going to be a complete handful. The Eastern Conference is a better defensive conference than the Western Conference.

That's where I like it. I also like it in the short term. Kyrie is reportedly ecstatic with the move. Lucas struggled with Porzingas, who could be kind of a moody guy, but maybe he learned something from that relationship. You know, Luca's now a year older. You know, young players evolve into older players. They grow up, stuff that bothered them their first couple of years in the league.

May not the next time they get a star. So, you know, Lucas is a smart guy. He didn't get along with Porzingis. Maybe this time work. Short term, I think it will absolutely work. I don't think what the Nets got. Listen, a bunch of draft picks that are irrelevant for Kevin Durant. You know, Dinwiddie's a nice player.

Finney Smith forward, not a big score. Good locker room guys. Who knows? Maybe it's a better fit with, you know, Harris and Claxton, Ben Simmons. Maybe it's a better defensive team and a better fit. Who knows? Brooklyn, by the way, despite kind of. Kyrie actually play some decent defense, like many Eastern teams.

So there's a lot I do like about it. Short-term, two great scores in the West, a weaker defensive conference. If you can get a two-year deal, I like that. But the other thing that's real is that Kyrie Irving, he missed games in college, he miss games in Cleveland, he missed games in Boston, he missed games in Brooklyn. He doesn't give you 82 games. If you can get to 68, 69, 70 games, you'd be happy with Kyrie Irving. he has never played a full slate.

He's not going to. As players age, they miss more and more games. So if Kyrie had gone to the Lakers and he's one of three stars, okay, you miss some games. But when you're one of two stars, neither one a good defensive star, Kyrie or Luca. When one's out, you don't get the offense and you get bad defense. That part I don't like. I don't feel like Dallas is a championship level team. I don't think they have the depth, but they'll score their way to a lot of wins.

They'll be a handful to play when they both play. They'll give up a lot of points on the defensive end. But if the deal's two years and not four, that's interesting. Kyrie's an unstable personality. Four-year relationships, you know, that's the old saying. Some you date, some you marry. He's a hard guy to depend on over the course of four years. I wasn't nearly as interested in that.

I did think he fit well with LeBron James' game. with Luca, I think they'll wear each other out eventually. But listen, Luca, you got to get him a second star. Right, LeBron's got his second star, and Durant had his second star, and Kobe was always better when he had a second star, and Michael Jordan had his, and Bird had his, and Magic had his, and that's the history of the league, and Tim Duncan had his. You know, Dirk didn't get his, and I think Mark Cuban didn't want to go through that again with his top international star.

And so he rolls the dice on this. Mark Cuban's an aggressive guy. I mean, this Dallas team pre-Kyrie was not winning a championship. I don't know if this one is, but they'll be more dynamic, more electric offensively. You know, I thought this about the Lakers. So when you looked at what Dallas offered, and then you look at what the Lakers offered, Westbrook, Russell Westbrook and like a number one pick down the road, picks are irrelevant for, you know, right now in the NBA. Especially I picked two or three years down the road.

He's 19 years old. it'll take him four years to be a top playoff NBA player at minimum, maybe six. But that Westbrook trade from the Wizards giving up Kyle Kuzma and KCP did damage in this. What did the Lakers have to give you? A bad contract with Russell Westbrook.

Durant probably said, why? I'd rather get Dinwiddie and a good forward. I mean, they gave up too much for Russell Westbrook. It didn't help this team, and it blew this trade. They just don't have enough to give anybody. I mean, the Lakers have shown they're not giving up those future picks. Not all of them.

They're not. The other component to this, I wrote this down on a piece of paper, is Jalen Brunson is not as good as Kyrie Irving. Probably a better teammate. But Jalen Brunson is younger than Kyrie Irving, not as expensive as Kyrie Irving, and is healthier than Kyrie Irving. You know, if you polled a lot of general managers and said Jalen Brunson, Kyrie Irving, I think a lot of them would take Jayorner Dylan Brunson and Dallas moved him. Now, Kyrie's a better player, but Kyrie gets hurt a lot. He's older, the contract, and he's difficult. He's prickly. I wouldn't even say unconventional. He's erratic. And you've got to be concerned about going into business with people like that.

So if Dallas can get this pulled off for a two-year deal at like 80 million bucks, then it's worth it. It'll be fun to watch. A lot of these big moves don't work. I remember, you know, Robinson Canoe to the Mariners. I mean, you're like, that's not going to work. Like two years later, three years later, it unravels. But I think this will be fun. The West is not the defensive conference of the East. They will score.

They'll be electric nights. Over the course of a series, they'll give up just as many points. As much as we all love offense in the NBA. Let's not forget who made the finals last year in the NBA. The Boston Celtics were the number one rated defense. and the Warriors, when Draymond Green played during the regular season, were the number one defense. So it was really the two best defensive teams in the NBA made the finals.

I want to bring in Chris Mannix, covered the NBA for over a decade. He's got some thoughts. Listen, these days, every new potential hire can feel like a high-stakes wager for your small business, right? The margins have never been tighter. You want to be 100% certain you have access to the best. qualified candidates and fast.

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Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, my first thought, Chris, when I saw the Steph Curry news, you know how these negotiations go. You know, you get the players figured out.

then there's draft pick compensation. I could see Mark Cuban and Nico Harrison, who's the GM of the Mavericks, former Nike exec. I could see there's, they probably had discussions starting Friday on this. And all of a sudden they saw the Steph injury and thought, well, the West was wide open before that. Okay, well, give you more picks. Probably didn't happen. But the timing was so perfect. In the end, this feels like a move to get Luca a guy.

he you know we can talk about whether we like it or not but it just feels like dirk never got the guy we can't do this with luca we got to get him a guy that was my interpretation your thoughts yeah i think that's pretty close to to accurate i was talking to a couple of people down in dallas today about why they made a deal like that number one was they need to do something this was a team that has largely been stuck in the mud they knew they were a cut below the top tier teams in the Western Conference. And look, even though Luca Donchich has several years left on his contract, we both know that guys don't need to be at the end of their contracts to ask out or to get frustrated

enough to force their way out. So there was some pressure there to at least show Luca that they are doing everything they can to build a winner. and Kyrie, at least on paper, and we can get into, you know, why it's more than just paper with Kyrie Irving, but on paper makes a lot of sense. They need shot creation. That's been a problem for them all season long. And Kyrie Irving, whether it's for himself or others, is a bona fide, top-of-the-line shot

creator. So it's definitely a roll of dice for the Mavericks. If it goes down in flames like literally every other Kyrie Irving stop, he's been to along the way, they could be in some trouble. But it's a calculated risk on their part that they could be the team that that works with Kyrie Irvin. Do you think the Mavericks are done? Because as much as I think this will be dynamic offensively, in Eastern teams, as I said in my preamble, there's more good defensive teams in the East than the West. The Clippers, obviously, and Memphis played real defense. But it will be dynamic offensively, but these are not good

defensive players. I would guess Dallas would make another move, maybe? I don't know. I don't think they have the pieces, and neither do they, frankly. I mean, I think they were, I want to say surprised that they were able to land Kyrie, but I don't think they went into these talks believing that they were the frontrunner because, I mean, look at their assets there. You know, Finney Smith, Dinwiddie, good players, one first round pick. It's fine. But, you know, there was definitely a thinking in Dallas that they were going to get outbid by somebody else, be it the Lakers, Clippers, Sons, the other teams that were in that mix. And now that Finney Smith is gone, and he was kind of that piece, Colin, that teams were the most interested

in, they didn't view him as a superstar, but he is kind of a 3-and-D player who shoots 36% from the floor, so, you know, there was value there. Now that he's gone, there's not a lot. Like, there's not a clamoring, you know, to get Tim Hardaway Jr. out of Dallas. Christian Wood is someone to keep your eye on over the next three or four days because Christian Wood is extension eligible. It has been since Christmas. He has not signed an extension yet, and the Mavericks are, you know, reluctant to lose a player of any kind of value for nothing. That just happened with Jalen Brunson. I could see them moving him again. But what are you going to get for Christian Wood at this point? You know, what are you going to

going to get a wing defender, are you going to get perimeter, a paint defender. I just don't see it. So I don't think, I think as far as moves of substance, they're probably done. So listen, Brunson popped. He was a good player, but he popped when he left Luca. Luca struggled with Porzingas. Karee struggled eventually with LeBron, who's actually a great distributor and more than willing to elevate everybody else's game. I mean, he played with D. Wade. You know, I don't think LeBron's a hard teammate. He wants A.D. to flourish.

He wanted Kyrie to flourish. That's why he was stunned when Kyrie wanted out. So, you know, not that, you know, Luca has had a couple of teammates who didn't get the ball enough. He's very ball-centric. A lot of people can get along initially. Is it possible? I saw one report in my preamble that it could just be that Kyrie was willing. willing to see how it works and then agree to a two-year deal, at two, I'm way more comfortable,

or is that just something somebody says and Kyrie wants four? Well, it's definitely something somebody says. Most of the information coming out about Kyrie's situation with the Nets is being fed from Kyrie's camp. Like, you know, the Nets didn't want Kyrie's trade demand out there because that effectively detonated any chance they had. of keeping him around. Look, Kyrie is about Kyrie here. Yeah, yeah. Right? This is, this is all him. Like, he knew after months of negotiation that the Nets were not going to come close to giving him the

contract that he wanted to get. He believes he is a three or four year max level player. And the numbers certainly backed that up, but the behavior makes just handing him that type of deal much too big a risk. And the Nets simply weren't going to do it. So by forcing his way out, Kyrie goes to a team that now has his bird rights and can resign him to the same type of deal that he was looking for in Brooklyn. If he had played out the season, he would have had to look for teams with Cap Space. And look at the teams with Cap Space, Colin. Detroit, I believe San Antonio has a bunch of Cap Space Houston. These are not teams. They're going to be banging down the door of Kyrie Irving to give him a max-level contract. So this,

was a purely selfish move by Kyrie Irving. Now, will the Mavericks give him that type of deal? I don't know. From what I've been able to gather, the Mavs are going to kind of wait and see here. Look, if they let him walk, if my math is correct, they would free up Max Capspace for it themselves next summer, which there's not a lot of guys you want to spend that on right away, but at least you create some flexibility with the contracts of Finney Smith and Dinwiddie off the book. So they could theoretically do something else, but the Mavericks are not going to give Kyrie the deal he's looking for right off the bat. They're going to see what happens with Kyrie this season if he fits opposite Luca and then make their decision from there. Yeah. I think it'll be dynamic in the short term.

It'll be less potentially of a defensive team. When I hear the West is wide open, I do believe that. Steph Curry is going to come back. I've kind of felt like, and I always feel this way, about pitchers in baseball, you know, if you go in a couple of long playoff runs as a pitcher and you're in 250, 300 innings, it's like arm fatigue. And then you come back to the spring. Like, I expected the Warriors, an old team, a lot of minutes, a lot of intense playoff

games to have a very sluggish start. The Draymond Green Jordan pool altercation. And it wasn't a big shock the first month they were awful on the road because on the road is when chemistry matters and they didn't have any. And then they're, you know, they're one of those teams where they can look awful against the T-wolves and then go out and play Memphis and Boston and be fantastic. So I've watched probably a dozen warrior games. And I don't think the West is quite as wide open. I do feel like they will kind of flip a gear, although they're not playing many players. So when people say the West is wide open, do you believe a Dallas, for instance,

just at least offensively could win this thing or does this move them up with a curry injury? Or do you kind of feel I do anyway, the Warriors are lurking? It's just a predictably tepid, a predictably inconsistent first half. Well, to answer the question about the Mavericks, this makes them more of a contender, certainly than what they were before the deal. But, look, Dinwiddie was pretty good for them. Yeah. So it's not like they are giving up nothing of value,

and they liked him in the locker room down there. So I think they get better, but that is a very, very weak defensive backboard. As much as it's going to score, they're going to get blown by. And it's not like there's a ton of rim protection down there in Dallas to clean up a lot of those mistakes. So look, it makes them better in the short.

term. You know Kyrie is going to be on his best behavior, playing at a premium level to try to get that contract. So look, Luke has done some magical things. Maybe they can catch lightning in a bottle. I'm just not, I'm not bullish about the warriors even with Kari Helper. Okay. Like enough people in and around Golden State have told me that they know they're missing something. Like they know they're missing that bench piece. Like they're missing that consistent veteran that they can rely on. What Iguodala was early in this run. what Porter Jr. was, what Gary Payton the second was, guys that they could go to to give them 15-ish minutes, they don't have that. Like, Kaminga's been pretty good, but Moody's given them less than,

he's been okay. Like, you know, you can't really rely on him. I'll say that. Moody's given them nothing. Wiseman's given them less. So you don't have that guy. And that's why whenever, you know, I talk to teams about what's going on before the trade deadline, I ask, like, what are the warriors looking to do. Like Golden State historically doesn't like to do deadline deals. They're not, they're not prone to shaking things up because they never had to, really, especially during this last six or seven year run. This might be the year they have to. And this might be the year they have to, you know, bite the bullet and maybe sell low on James Wiseman, sell low on Moses Moody. Like, think about it. James Wiseman for Alex Caruso straight up works, right? Like,

Alex Caruso doesn't have anywhere near the upside of James Wiseman, but he is a 28-year-old, multipositional defender who shoots the three and has championship experience. This version of the Warriors needs that. They need either Alex Caruso or something like that to get them to a championship level. If they don't get that player, Colin, as much as I respect, the Curry's Thompson's Greens,

the guys that have been there before, I don't think they have enough to get past the upper-tier teams in the Western Conference. So LeBron James, as we tape this, Mr. Manix, has tweeted as he's prone to do, maybe it's me. Projecting a little bit, woe is me. What do you make about LeBron and A.D., not landing Kyrie? I think the Lakers could look back and regret it because the Lakers were one of those teams that reeked of desperation going into this deadline.

And you know, you project out, right, this summer. They acquired Rui Hashimura. They gave up a bunch of second round picks to get him. They want to bring back Rui Hashibora. So that is going to cost them at least half of their available cap space. probably going to have 15 million to spend on players this off. So they're not landing a big fish. A trade is the only way to land the big fish. And look at the capital of what it was. Like, you know, it would have cost them Westbrook. Maybe they would have had to have taken back Joe Harris.

And maybe they couldn't have gotten a deal done anyway because Westbrook doesn't help the Nets contend. Like, you know, I don't even know if they'd keep him around if they acquired him in a trade like that. And the Nets clearly want to try to keep winning while Kevin Durant is still on the Ross. Maybe there was nothing they could do, but the Lakers, this was a situation they should have been really aggressive. And Colin, this is kind of their M.O. when it comes to deals. Go back a couple of years ago, they wouldn't give up Taylon Horton Tucker to get Kyle Lowry. Think about that now. They wouldn't give him up. What would that team been a couple of years ago if they would have acquired that version of Kyle Lowry from Toronto? They just get a little too hesitant, a little too

reluctant, can't pull the trigger on some of these critical deals. And, look, LeBron AD, when they're together, they play great, but that's not a championship contending team. It's just not, no matter how well Rui Hashimora is playing. So, you know, this is going to be one of those things, like six months a year from now, we look back and say, man, they should have at least tried because that's the one team. LeBron's played with Kyrie. He knows how to deal with him. Yeah. Kyrie very close with AD. You know, when, when Kyrie was in Boston, I covered this a lot back then whenever there was talk about the South that's acquiring AD,

Kyrie was kind of a carrot there because they've got a great relationship together. So that would have been a situation for the Lakers that made sense. If they had enough to pull it off, they probably should have done it. Yeah, I mean, I said it in my preamble, you know, for the Westbrook deal,

they gave up Coosman, KCP. And they don't have a lot of pieces. Austin Reeves, you know, there's limitations. So the Westbrook deal, they gave up too much then. It heard them now. it's been a predictable mess. This year, the only app you need it. Your Super Bowl party is Fandul.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10. pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's pivot to Kevin Durant Phoenix rumors. So Phoenix feels like those old Sacramento King teams that never won a title, took the Lakers to seven, and then all of a sudden lost, and the window closed really fast. And so Phoenix had this two years where I'm like, wow, Aiton's becoming something. Booker's a star. But Chris Paul is now aging. You know, Aiton, Monty Williams

have friction. It does feel like it's close fast. And we talk about this in the NFL. I thought the Seahawks were going to have a six-year run. It was like three years. Like when those close fast, Warriors are really an outlier. And as good as the Celtics have been for six or seven years,

they don't have the ring yet. So here's Phoenix, like a very condensed version of Boston. You're like, wow, it's over. like we're the Celtics, we feel like it's got some real legs here. And so there's some talk out there about Kevin Durant. Do you think it's fueled, as you said earlier, by like the star players camp? Where do you think those stories surface? I don't, at this point, I think it's only being fueled externally.

I have not had indications yet that Kevin Durant is looking at this. Kyrie's situation saying that's it, trade me now before the trade deadline. That could change. Certainly the next couple of days. It's very fresh. But my understanding is Kevin Durant has not requested a trade from Brooklyn. Look, the Nets had months to try to figure out a deal with Phoenix over the summer. It didn't happen.

They weren't overly enthralled with DeAndre Aiton. And I don't know why that would be the case right now. McHale Bridges, fine player, draft picks, whatever. But what Phoenix was dangling in front of them back in the summer, when there was real competition for Kevin Durant. There were a lot of teams bidding for Kevin Durant over the summer. The Nets weren't interested. I have a hard time believing that the Sons can construct something over the next four days

that will make the Nets bite on a Durant deal. More to the point, Colin, when I see this return from Dallas, that tells me the Nets are still trying to contend. And what's interesting about how the Nets have played the last few years, if you look at some of the numbers, they have a better record with Durant and no Kairi than Durant and Karee. It's like 69% winning percentage versus 65%. Like they've been better because Kevin Durant just has this ability

to elevate a lot of guys around him. And so the Nets calculus, I think, is that you add Finney Smith, to the mix. So with Royce O'Neill, you've got another 3&D type of guy, versatile player can guard multi-positions, which is certainly useful when you're looking at going up against Boston or any of the other Milwaukee top-tier teams in the Eastern Conference. And Spencer Dinwiddie had his best years in Brooklyn. We saw him tweeting out earlier, can't wait to go home. Like he's excited about the possibility. Never wanted to really leave Brooklyn, but just went because the money was bigger when he signed in

Washington. I think Spencer Dinwiddie, he's going to be really good for. for that team. He's not Kyrie, but plug him into that point guard spot. He's going to average 15, 18 points per game over the rest of the season. So the net's thinking, and it could be crazy, at least for right now, is that, look, we got some guys that can play. And Kevin Durant, when he's healthy, is otherworldly. So if we can just put enough competent role players around him and maybe at some point try to resurrect this corpse of Ben Simmons that's been out there for the last few months, maybe we can do something in the postseason.

Chris Manix is always good stuff. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope, also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dremont Green Show

wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel. Michael and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.