The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Lakers Playoff Outlook, KD’s Legacy, Luka/Mavs Problems w/ Jason Timpf

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

First (3:00), Colin reacts to the Ravens overpaying for OBJ, and if Phil Mickelson’s surprising Masters showing further closes the gap with Tiger. Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf joins Colin to discuss if the Lakers are the clear favorite against the T’Wolves in the play-in game, if they can take out the Grizzlies in a 1st round matchup, if the Kings have any shot for a 1st round upset of the Warriors, why the Suns and Kevin Durant have the advantage over the Clippers, what another title would do for KD’s legacy, if Luka Doncic is capable of playing with another star, and if his career is starting to mirror Carmelo Anthony’s. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We'll join us in about 10 minutes. So the big NFL news on Sunday afternoon that broke the Baltimore Ravens paid 15 million guaranteed, potentially 18 million for Odell Beckham Jr., which is possibly double his value on the market. Just to give you a sense, Alan Lazard got $22 million guaranteed, and that's for four years with the Jets. So OBJ is getting $15 million guaranteed

for one year with the Ravens. I texted two executives in the NFL, and they said, man, what is it with the Ravens and old wide receivers? Odell Beckham this year, Nelson Aguilar this year, DeShon Jackson last year. They love their declining wide receiver talent in Baltimore. But years and years ago, I got into a discussion. It may have been about 10 years ago with an NFL executive.

And we were talking about free agency. And there's a pretty high bust rate. And he believed that there were certain positions that were safer with free agent signings, non-ego positions. You know what a guy does. The money's not going to affect him. you know, the recruiting is not going to affect him. But he had said, about 10 years ago, he said, I always worry about wide receivers.

He said it's an ego position to begin with. You're the first to break the huddle. You know, you're the star wide receiver playing by yourself in the outside. You know, even a quarterback is reliant on a blocking back and his left tackle on his offensive line and his offensive coordinator call plays. You know, a lot of times a receiver goes out wide. It's a jump ball. It's me against you.

It's an ego position. And cornerback similarly, because he's a quarterback, similarly, because he's a lot of you. because you're going to get burned all the time in the NFL, even if you're a top corner, you've got to have a healthy sense of self and, you know, a pretty good shield around you. And so this executive said, I worry about getting receivers in the bidding wars. Now, obviously, there are some guys like Cooper Cup or Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, have like a workman-like approach. But OBJ loves OBJ.

and he's dramatic. He loves the attention. And now you just overpaid him by about half. If you look at what Amari Cooper produces on an annual basis, A, he's always available. B, last year he had like nine touchdowns. Highly productive. He makes $20 million a year. OBJ is not close to that.

He's brittle. He's descending as a talent. You're going to get drama. I would love to have him as a two or a three receiver. But if you're paying somebody 15 large per year on that team, That's as a number one. It does tell me that Lamar Jackson's probably returning to Baltimore. That will obviously make him very happy.

And I got nothing against OBJ. But you start bidding wars are overpaying for certain positions. I mean, we think of quarterback as sort of a mature coach on the field position. Look what the big money is done to Kyler Murray, Aaron Rogers. I mean, like Aaron Rogers decided, I'm not going to really care. about football as much in March after the big contract. So that's with quarterbacks. I just, I think they wildly overpaid for him.

Now, they may look at it and say, we got Joe Burrow in this division, Deshaun Watson coming back year two with good weapons. Pittsburgh always has weapons and Kenny Pickett looked good at the end of last year. We got to load up and get some playmakers here. But, you know, Baltimore has had a kind of a turbulent, dubious track record of wide receiver acquisitions. Mark East Brown, we thought he was Lamar Jackson's best friend and he left for Arizona. But the last couple of years, Nelson Aguilar, Deshawn Jackson, OBJ at 15 million guaranteed, Andy Isabella. Not great. Not great at all. Happy for OBJ. The league's always more fun when he's in it.

But that number is a crazy number. Double what the people I know in the league think he's worth. a declining brittle wide receiver. Well, it was a weird contrast at the Masters this weekend to see Tiger Woods withdraw and limping in the rain and 52-year-old Phil Mickelson tie for second place with Brooks Kepka, the oldest golfer ever to attain that feat, 65 on Sunday. You know, in his career, which has always been greater than people want to recognize because he's polarizing, but 700 weeks in the top 10, 45 event wins. His highs were never as high as Tiger Woods,

but his lows haven't been as low. And, you know, he took the money with Live Golf. I've said before, I don't think I would have, but I'm never going to tell anybody what to do with money when it's gigantic. It's over $100 million. And Phil's always loved money. But I think because he's been outspoken,

the gambling, he's known as sort of cocky among the players, that for a lot of people, he's really hard to embrace. I strongly recommend reading the book, Phil, by Alan Shipnuck. Great book. And it tells he was a party boy, a bad boy, funny, outspoken, Uber confident, 25 consecutive years in the top 50. And, you know, I've said this years ago, would you rather have Tiger Woods' meteoric career for 10 years and then the mess that followed, the near death in a car wreck, the ugly divorce, or would you rather have Phil Mickelson, who at 52 can on any weekend play amongst the greatest golfers? And I think, you know, we tend to look in terms of, you know, how many majors. But Tiger's career has been really, for the most part, the last six to seven years, incredibly sad.

a huge downer, and I'm a big Tiger fan. You know, it's the Michael Jordan LeBron comparison, is that Michael at his height dominated the sport for like eight years. But LeBron, over the course of his career, has been better, much longer than Michael Jordan. And LeBron's got fewer championships than Michael Jordan. But I would take arguably, LeBron's career over Michael Jordan, Tiger's career from about 18 years old to 30,

it's the greatest golf career of all time. But it is not aged well at all. You know, Phil Mickelson's had controversy. Look at him, 52 years old. His weight fluctuates. His golf game occasionally does. Few golf careers greater than Phil Mickelson. one of the only guys left that gets me to a TV.

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Colin, how are you doing? Well, after watching Rudy Gobert, who couldn't get along, with Donovan Mitchell in Utah, blow up with Kyle Anderson in Minnesota on the eve of the Laker playing game, I thought, what a break for the Lakers. Lakers have their best harmony of the year. They're all getting along great. They have real defined offense. You know, I'm watching them flying back from, I went skiing for a couple days. And so I got to watch, you know, the Laker game flying back. and they really I mean, they really now know

where to go offensively. They've kind of figured out what they are. Now, LeBron played really, really exceptionally well. But considering they threw this thing together at the trade deadline, Darvin Ham obviously makes them a good defensive team, right? But I think they're offensive unity and chemistry and harmony watching them today. They kind of know who should take the shots. You know, if Beasley gives you anything in the plane,

in game of the postseason and Minnesota's fighting. So that's not going to play well. And Gobert is just a difficult guy. So I just thought, you know, sometimes the touch of luck and I felt like, what a break for the Lakers. Minnesota's infighting perfect. It even goes further than that, Colin, because I think Jaden McDaniels might very well be the best perimeter defender in all of basketball right now.

There's two guys in the NBA that are leaving a body count. around the league just locking down superstars on any given night. And it's Dylan Brooks and Jaden McDaniels. Those are the two guys that have been having the most success. And Jaden McDaniels punched the wall on his way into the locker room at halftime. And he broke his hand is going to be out. So here's the thing. Like it's a up in the air single elimination stuff.

Well, not single elimination, but a one game sample. So obviously anything can happen. But I want to proceed here under the assumption that the Lakers win on Tuesday. Yeah. Seven point favorite. Obviously, I understand the reality that they could lose. this is a really good basketball team. 18 and 8 post-ed-ed-line.

That is the second best record in the league over that span. Second and defense, fourth and rebounding. So they're physically mauling teams. And they did most of that without LeBron. They're nine and two since LeBron joined the team. My one concern with the Lakers right now, and this is just a byproduct of the way things kind of broke down, down the stretch, is for their last five games,

they played against really bad teams. And that tends to kind of breed some bad habits. So I wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota got up to a good start. in that playing game just because they're a little more locked in on those details. But I'm really intrigued with this Memphis matchup. And we're going to talk Golden State in a little bit, because I actually think they kind of dodged a bullet here. Yeah.

But this Laker matchup matches, it makes a lot of sense for the Lakers on a couple of different levels. The Memphis Grizzlies are a team that play a lot of guys that typically don't shoot very well, right? John Morant, you can go underneath screens. Dylan Brooks has been shooting well for a couple of weeks, but he's a guy that I guarantee you, Darvinham's going to dare to shoot. and then obviously in the front court with Stephen Adams out with Brandon Clark out.

You're going to be looking at Xavier Tillman or Jaron Jackson there. Darbinham loves to dare people to shoot. And I think this is a series that actually bodes well for the Lakers there. And then on the other end of the floor, who is the best surgical matchup hunting player and probably the history of the NBA, LeBron James. And so he's going to be calling up John Morant to every single conceivable action. He's going to be doing everything in his power to get Dylan Brooks off of him

or to get Anthony Davis into favorable matchups. And obviously, there's a long road ahead. If they win, I think they're going to face the Warriors in round two. If they win that, there's a very good chance they're going to play Phoenix in round three. If they win that, there's a very good chance you're going to get Boston or Milwaukee at the end of that. So it's a very long road. It's a lot to put on LeBron James and Anthony Davis physically. But here's the deal.

You made it to the playoffs-ish. And you're probably going to be a slight favorite in round one. I'd call that a resounding victory compared to where we were before the deadline. Well, the other thing is Memphis isn't Cleveland Young or OKC or Houston Young, but Stephen Adams is one of the few guys with some playoff experience and he's out. So Memphis is fairly young. And I always felt this year that they're one of those teams built for the regular season because they play hard and they have depth. and you can win a lot of games in this league off playing hard and having 10 guys.

It doesn't matter nearly as much. So now they get smaller without Stephen Adams, plays right into Anthony Davis's hands. And he's had the best two-week stretch, arguably since he's been a Laker. If you take out the bubble, he's been completely dominating. Again, he didn't play particularly well today in terms of total points. But down the stretch, he had a couple of key baskets. So I think you get a Memphis team that's smaller,

had injuries, young. And let's be honest, the John Morant stuff, still not great. So if you say to me, okay, there's a team in the playoffs that could be a little volatile of all of them. And I'd be like, Clippers, because of Kauai, you never know if he's going to play. Westbrook. They had a fight on their bench. So like Clippers feel very volatile to me. And I think Memphis, as a young, one of the younger

playoff teams, Cleveland in the East is very young. But Cleveland doesn't feel immature. Everybody in Cleveland knows exactly what they are and what they do. Donovan Mitchell has really clarified their offense. He takes the last big shot and everybody knows it. Mobley's your big. He's your young guy, but he knows late in games. They all step aside for Donovan Mitchell.

Memphis has some egos. They're chatty. I think the Lakers win that series. I really do, and I think Anthony Davis is going to have a fantastic series without Stephen Adams. Memphis is very dangerous because they have guys that are capable of knocking down shots. Like, here's the thing. If John Moraine, like we learned from last year's playoffs. Like Desmond Bain, really good, interesting player, excellent shooter, good defensive player, can do some slashing.

But he really struggled to beat people off the dribble last year in the playoffs. That's a concern. The playoffs in general will take your weakness and shine the biggest, magnifying glass on it. It's what the playoffs do. The same thing with John Morant. It's, hey, yeah, you knock down pull-up threes at 30% this year. That's great. We are going to dare you to take that this year to the point where we're going to actually try to get into your head by making you think you can't do it. That's the way that these, these, especially these veteran playoff teams try to attack you and make you feel uncomfortable, make you lack confidence. And at the

end of the day, like it all comes down to the physical side of things like LeBron James has to hold up. Anthony Davis has to hold up. But over the course of a playoff series, the team that wins is usually the team that generates higher quality shots in the half court. Who do you trust more to get stops in the half court for seven games? LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves, or, you know, John Morant, Desmond, Bain, Dylan, Brooks, and Jared Jackson. And then on the flip side of that, when Memphis has to score against them, I just think the Lakers are going to get better quality shots over the course of the series. Wouldn't be surprised if Memphis jumped up to a

1-0 lead or a 2-1 lead. But I think as the series progresses, the older, more talented team in the Lakers is in the best shape. I want to say this, though. I am a big believer in what Golden State does. But yes, Andrew Wiggins is

back. However, he's a rhythm player who has not played really intense competitive basketball for a while. Had they fallen to seven, and drawn that Memphis matchup, I think Memphis would have beat them. That's how much I view the importance of getting Andrew Wiggins up to speed. So it is so critically important that they get this series against Sacramento,

a team who's very good and very offensively skilled as an excellent home court advantage, but they are not the biggest and most athletic team in the world. So Golden State and their lack of athleticism will have less of a factor to play in that particular series. And I don't know if you notice, but Golden State's actually a minus 200 favorite to win that series. That's a pretty significant favorite. If they get out of that series, that buys you from now three additional weeks to get Andrew Wiggins up to speed for a potential matchup with Memphis or L.A. Two massive teams that are incredibly athletic and big. And at that point, I'd feel better about that.

Well, and Gary Payton, just the other night, got extended minutes. So now Gary Payton, you can put him on for a good 16 minutes a night. just put them on Deerrin Fox and then put Clay Thompson, D'Ate de Vincenzo. We've talked about this. Golden State's absurdly deep in the back court and very thin in the front court. But Deerne Fox is their fourth quarter guy. I think he's the best guard in the NBA in the fourth quarter this year in terms of what they called crucial points.

So, you know, I saw the other night Peyton played like 18, 20 minutes. And I'm like, that's exactly what they wanted. So Wiggins isn't ready to go at that level. And they'll have to massage that a little because Kaminga's finally now playing real minutes. And they're going to take him away. So that's a weird, you know, confluence of events where it's like we need Wiggins desperately. But, you know, Kamingos actually started to put log in 18, 20, 24 minutes and been productive. So now you've got to peel him back.

So you've got to massage that in the locker room. And the chemistry has been weird with the Warriors this year since the Draymond, Jordan Poole, inflammation. But I like their matchup in the series. He throw a lot of bodies at Fox. You know, Golden State will have to win a road game. But this is almost, you know, it's a bus ride. And I also think this, they'll get the whistle. They know how to manipulate officials. They know how to do the psychological manipulation. I mean, Sacramento is like the little brother down the road to the dynasty. And you can see. in spots them being a little overwhelmed.

And the Warriors, you know, trash talking, getting in their head and getting the favorable whistle, the dynasty does in the first round my entire life. I don't think the league is rigged, but I do think veteran teams manipulate officiating in the playoffs where referees tend to swallow the whistle. You're not going to get that high-octane offense that draws all those fouls. The Warriors can slow it down, speed. heat it up. They'll get the whistle. So I think it's one of these series. It's a really good series for Golden State. There were some real worrisome matchups. Even the Lakers size could be a

huge problem. I think they lucked out. Well, again, the Warriors can beat somebody with size. They just need Andrew Wiggins. Like when I say I would have picked Memphis to win in the first round, that's 100% an Andrew Wiggins take. It's all associated with the fact that he is so impaired. to their athletic ceiling that they need to compete in a series against that team, giving them an extra three weeks from now to get there. That's vitally important. The Sacramento, this is a Gary Payton series, in my opinion. And the main reason why is because Sacramento has killed teams all season long

with a simple combination of Deeran Fox and DeMontosabonis. And what they do with their dribble handoffs, and the problem it presents for teams because you let Deer and Fox get downhill, or if you switch it, Sabonis is one of the best players in the league at beating switches to the basket. And if you draws double teams, he's an excellent passer. So what I like about the Golden State matchup in that series is Draymond Green and Gary Payton. I couldn't conceive possibly mentally a better duo to potentially handle those two guys.

And this is, again, what an attribute. And this is why I actually love this move from the deadline. What an incredible attribute to have as a coach, a weapon in your pocket, to be able to deploy Gary Payton on the other team's best guard. And to know he's going to be able to hold that in check. I don't know if you noticed this the other night, but the Warriors won the game against Oklahoma City, a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. You might have been scant, but it was a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. And in the fourth quarter of that game, Gary Payton shut down Shayfielders Alexander, who's one of the best guards in this league. He had a couple of buckets on

switches and he drew one foul. But for the most part, Gary Payton shut him down. And it was how Golden State pulled out that game. He is one of the best guards in the league to guard this specific type of matchup, partnering that with Draymond Green. I love this matchup for the Warriors. I would pick them to win in no more than six games, but I'm leaning towards five. And for all the hoops tonight listeners out there, we're going to do a full breakdown of this series within the next couple of days where we'll really dive into the X's and O's. But I'm leaning towards picking the Warriors in five or six. Yeah, I think I would take the Warriors in six. Sons four against the Clippers five. This again,

really plays in the Phoenix's hand. So, you know, Kevin Durant's gotten several games off. So they're sitting him. And here you have an inflamed bench situation where Plumley gets into a fight. You're already asking Ty Lou, like, what do you do with Westbrook now? He's great in regular season production. Okay, now we get into situational basketball. What do I do?

Paul George isn't available. He would be huge in this series to defend. Kevin Durant. So now I've got a little bit of inflammation. How do I use Westbrook, who's not been a great postseason player? What do I do with the Kevin Durant matchup? Like Memphis, there's some depth here. But there's a lot of, to me, this could not in a weird way,

Kevin Durant between getting hurt and warmups and now resting for the last couple of games, you're getting the most rested, healthiest Kevin Durant in like years. and I think Phoenix is going to be a handful for the Clippers. I love Phoenix here. Yeah, you know, I'm really low on the Clippers in general, Colin. I don't know how many times we have to go into the season with everybody preaching that they're one of the favorites for them to not fulfill that for us to finally learn our lessons.

They don't have good rim protection. They don't have good playmaking. And that makes, that's two vitally important things that you have to have to succeed in the playoffs. You know, this is what the Clippers are. They are a team with a bunch of wings that are wings in name only that don't move as well as they used to. Right. A lot of guys like Marcus Morris and Nick Batum and Robert Covington, guys that once upon a time would have been vital important playoff pieces, but they're just not that anymore. Covington's out of the rotation.

Marcus Morris has been hurt. But Toom's okay. You know, but the problem is without Paul George, they simply do not have enough shot creation. Right. There's three guys on the team that can create their own shot. Kauai Leonard, Russell Westbrook, and Norman Powell. And Norman Powell runs hot and cold. I mean, obviously he destroyed the Lakers the other day, but he runs hot and cold.

Russell Westbrook, the game has to be going a very specific type of way for him to have impact. And as good as Kauai Leonard is, and he's made strides as a playmaker. He's a pull-up shot maker. Like he doesn't pressure the rim super well, and he's not the best passer in the world. So it's like, yeah, he'll get you his 30 by knocking down his pull-up jump shots, but he's not a guy that can really carry an offense over the course of a game. And so what they really are is a team that doesn't have a lot of shot creation. They're a good team, but I don't think they have very.

nearly the playoff ceiling they need without Paul George. I think the sons are going to make quick work of them. Yeah. Well, and also the sons are a team between Durant's health and Chris Paul's age. He had a great game about a week ago. But like he kind of just gave you, hey, I'm not done yet. I'm fine. I'm good here.

But they got a huge break because that's a team. Boston, I feel a little bit with Tatum sometimes and Robert Williams Health and Marcus smart. like they don't need to play together. Like, we know the Celtics are fine. They've been playing together now for years. They need time off. You know, Tatum needs rest.

I feel that way with Phoenix. Like Chris Paul and Durant, what they need is like five days off those legs going into a playoff series. So I'm with you. Phoenix hasn't lost yet with Durant on the floor. I mean, it's it. Not a single game.

And it looks really good. You know, that's because Kevin's a high functioning player and Chris Paul is one of the smartest guys in the league. And that's where I think sometimes with Aiton, they've been frustrated. Monty's been frustrated. Chris has. He, I think sometimes Chris Paul's really demanding on his bigs. Like he's really hard on them.

And so like everywhere he goes, the team gets better and the big doesn't like him. But I think Kevin Durant's a unique, I wouldn't call him a big, but a unique four that plays Is it such a high level of basketball, like really gets the game? I just think him and Chris are going to be magic. And I don't think any, I really don't, you know, we'll see with Denver. Denver still, believe it or not, despite they've been good for several years, they're still a pretty young team. They don't have a lot of playoff success.

So I think Phoenix is going to roll. Okay, so I have a question for you then. Because Phoenix, I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but they're a gigantic favorite against the clippers. I think they're like minus 400 or something insane like that. I do believe they will be favored against Denver as well if they get out of the first round. Should be.

Vegas is going to look at Phoenix in a conference finals as a favorite in all likelihood. So he will be favored in at least three rounds and very possibly the fourth round. If Kevin Durant does not win a championship this season with the Sons, will it change the way you look at his career in any way, shape or form? No, I think his legacy is fully formed. I do think he can get a little tick up if he won in Phoenix. But, you know, if you go back to Brooklyn, despite it being like an egregiously poor decision to leave the Warriors, he was really successful. I mean, Simmons won't shoot.

Kyrie wouldn't play. Harden came in out of shape. You had a rookie head coach with all those big personalities. He was pretty good. Kevin gave you 27 a night. It's what he's done his whole career. willing defender. So I look at, from a business standpoint, I didn't like Brooklyn from a basketball standpoint.

I thought he was excellent. If you go to his last like 26 starts, he's 23 and 3. So I think, I mean, you get, you know exactly what you're getting with Kevin Durant. It's insane. I mean, the fact that they were competitive in Brooklyn, Nash had never coached, Kyrie, the vaccine. I mean, it's well documented. Nothing. You know, when he came there, they were known as a team with limited talent but chemistry.

and that was their strength. Well, they blew that up. They were known as a team that was well coached with chemistry. All right, coach is fired. Chemistry's kaput. And Kevin's the only reason they weren't a laughing stock. So I think he's takeout centers of 12 best players I've ever seen, a better version of Dirk Novitsky, who's a top 20 player in my estimation.

And I think for public opinion and debate shows, Phoenix if he wins gives him a boost. But everybody I've ever known in the league is like toughest stop in the league, even more so than LeBron. Put him in any team anywhere, first game out, fits perfectly. LeBron, you've sort of got to readjust or, you know,

he's kind of going to be the orchestra leader. LeBron's going to have the ball in his hands. And he makes everybody better. But not game one. Even he and Wade took like 17 games, if you recall. they were like nine and seven and they had similar games, but LeBron was better. What do you do with Chris Bosch? It was a weird fit.

They were just so hyper athletic. It was so much fun to watch. But it was clunky. And then in year two, I think it was year two, they went on that long winning streak. They were just so athletic. But like Durant, two practices. First game with Phoenix, you're like, yeah, this works. Second quarter.

Yeah, this looks great. It'll be fine. Well, first of all, with that Miami team, there's no doubt it was a clunky fit. I would argue it was a clunky fit. almost through to the end because the LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, fit was always a little bit redundant. They were two hyper-athletic playmaking wings

that didn't like to shoot jump shots, right? Like, that's just the reality of it. To LeBron's credit, he's gotten better over the course of his career at making his game more malleable. And I believe he's a lot more malleable now than he used to be, just even with this Lakers squad, it's a very guard-heavy Lakers squad.

And he's kind of transitioned into almost a post-player, like a big, he sets a ton of screens. He operates out of the post a ton. But the point is, Kevin Durant is on another stratosphere from everybody in the entire league when it comes to plug and play because of what he can do defensively and because of his ability to play out of any spot on the floor, both with and without the basketball. I 100% agree with you, though. I don't feel any sort of like pressure on KD. The dude is just 100% established himself as what he's capable of.

I 100% agree with you. Like all these guys only have the world to gain and nothing to lose in my opinion. That said, yeah, of course there's going to be people out there that will. jump on that as an opportunity. But you and I have watched Kevin Durant play basketball for, what, almost two decades now. And he has just done nothing but win basketball games at the highest level, with exception of situations where you wouldn't expect him to, where, you know, the Russell Westbrook fit was clunky, that Brooklyn fit that you broke down so well.

The dude is a certified winner. That's that you just read out 23 and 3. How many, I'll have to look it up, but 23 and 3 streaks happen so incredibly rarely in the NBA. so hard to win games that consistently, especially with the amount of parity there is now. If you broke down, if I gave you to ask you to list players from one to 40, you'd be reading 35 to 40 and it sound like stars to you. That's how much talent is in the league. And he won 23 out of 26 games. That's insane. He's invincible to me. And Phoenix actually needed him. So it's not only that he goes to Phoenix, but they had a big. They had somebody who has the ball, a mid-range guy,

and they had kind of a chill. Devin Booker is a willing, I mean, like Devin can score 40 or 23. He's not very needy. So it's like what they needed was like a really talented guy with size, give them more length. Because I don't think DeAndre Aiton qualifies the great rim protector. You know, he's not, he's not like Janus. That's just not what he is.

He's just long. He runs the floor really well. So he really not only is a plug-in-play guy, but he's kind of what Phoenix needed. More length. And another, because Chris Paul has, I think, regressed as a score, more scoring. Because Aitin's not a consistent score. So most great teams have two guys on the team that if they scored 40 in a playoff game, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I could see it.

Whereas, you know, I mean, that's like if Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, if they drop 40, you'd be like, oh, yeah, it's one of those nights. That's why Milwaukee's interesting because Chris Middleton's no longer that guy. He's not scoring 40 in a playoff game. Well, Drew Holliday is more of a defender who can score. I could see 28. So they're a weird team. They may just went on depth and experience and size and defense and culture.

But I think Kevin Durant fits everywhere, but he's just exactly what Phoenix needed. Because you kind of questioned if you looked at him this year with Chris Paul pulling back, is what if Booker doesn't have a good night? Where's the scoring come from? Like, they just didn't have enough. And it's like, so when a star comes into a team, there can be animosity. I think Phoenix knew what they weren't. And I think the guys knew what they weren't, which is like, we need 28 consistently.

Well, that's his career average. So it's like it fits so many ways. Like, I think Phoenix is a really smart team. And everybody knew we just need an, I mean, that's why you go out and make that move if you're a new owner. Like everybody was like, that's exactly what we need. I 100% agree. You broke down the very important piece. DeAndreaten is not a top-tier rim protector.

We broke this down. You and I've talked this down. I talked about this like two or three times, but you can't win a championship without top-tier defensive talent in the front court. Kevin Durant provides length and shot blocking around the rim that DeAndreighton can't bring. And then it really was this simple. When they'd get to the biggest stage, whether it was against Luca last year in the second round, or whether it was against Janus in the finals in the last round,

when they run into a real superstar, Devin Booker and Chris Paul have been incapable of meeting them at that level, even as a duo. And Kevin Durant crosses that box, specifically in the areas you talked about scoring the basketball, where Devin Booker would be able to get some buckets on Drew Holiday. Chris Paul fell apart over the course of that series. Same thing over the course of the Maverick series. So I 100% agree with you. What did you make of the Dallas punting those last two games of the season? I think I was reading some Dallas media reports. It's a S show.

It's a mess. Well, you know, they hired a guy from Nike who's never been really a GM. But he was in the basketball division, very smart guy, a relationship guy. And now they put him in charge of running, you know, basketball ops. And, you know, I like Mark Cuban. I think he's really smart. He tends to be what I would call a tech. optimist. He has so much confidence in his intelligence that he takes big swings and he hits,

you know, his pharmaceutical company is brilliant. I understood. I mean, it was funny. When they went and got Kyrie Irving, I applauded it. I said, I like the swing. This is going to be an atrocious defensive team. These are two of the worst. I mean, Kyrie is an abysmal defensive player. And so when people kind of embrace this as a championship team, I'm like, guys, the Warriors and Celtics were the two best defensive teams in the league. Like you can't win that way. You can't just score your way. You can't have to score 126 a night.

It just doesn't work that way in this sport. And I think people think it's that. And then if you've ever had a buddy who goes and plays in the NBA, it's like, man, they grind you. There's a lot of contact in this league. In the playoffs, it doubles down on it. That's why, you know, Kyrie pre-imposed LeBron, he gets pushed around. It was like LeBron was a little bit of a bodyguard

And you have to surround Kyrie with certain elements I also think increasingly Luke is a moody player And he's going to be really hard to find the Robin You know, we talked about this The hardest thing in basketball is to find the Janus That once in a franchise player So the Bucks have done it twice

Louis Al Cinder and Janus They got a championship one Back in 1971 right Milwaukee And they got one with Yonis It's not a great free agent hub. So you have to kind of build a culture. And then eventually, Kareem, like, I want out. I want to go west.

He did. And so I think when Luca came into the league, there was this sense is he could pair him with a lot. So they try the slasher, Porzingis, they don't like each other. And then they try Jalen Brunson. And they're like, well, they don't really fit. Well, Jalen's been like an MVP guard play in New York. Well, let's try Kyrie.

Well, now, Kyrie doesn't perfectly work for him. we're falling in love with this great hyper offensive player. Moody, difficult, needs ball, won't defend. You know, is he going to end up Carmelo Anthony? Where he has this early success in Denver and never really then galvanizes people. I mean, you start looking at the great players of all time. Everybody needed a running mate. Like magic galvanized people, LeBron galvanized people.

Michael didn't, but he found a running mate. Right. Like some guys don't do. that, but they find a guy. Tim Duncan finds his Tony Parker. Steph finds his clay. Like, it's way harder to find a two because it's not just the player. It's the temperament. McHale was the college, you wouldn't remember this because you're young. He led the nation in rebounding. He was known as a defensive guy that rebounded at Minnesota. And he came to the NBA with all these weird moves and he was super long, kind of an unorthodox looking score. But he was a great

rebounder, shot blocker in college, and Bird was the score. Well, McCale could have scored more, but he's like, okay, I'm going to be part of this. Bosch in Miami. I want to be part of this. Kevin Love and Cleveland with LeBron, I want to be part of it. Like, Luca's going to make you feel small. He's not going to help you on the defense event. He's not going to, you're going to get the ball late in the shot clock with him. I think Luke is harder to play with than people think. And I, you say, well, Michael was difficult. But Michael got the right coach, also found a very willing Robin.

And then he had high functioning players. Curran Paxson became GMs. Like they knew how to play with Michael. They understood Michael was the guy. Those bull teams had really high. BJ Armstrong becomes a power agent. Like you had a lot of guys around Michael that knew how to play the game

and appeal to his senses and his alpha. that's hard. Like that, that Luca's going to be hard to play with, and I think we have to come to terms with it. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. He's entering a very important phase of his basketball development because he's starting to just slightly plateau a little bit. And, you know, I love the way you broke it down. Like, you have to be willing to buy into this, like, larger concept of the team. Because, for instance, like, you can break it down on a simple math level. Okay, Luca, high pick and roll is worth, you know, one point, two points per possession.

Therefore, if we run it 100 times in a game, we're going to score 120 points, that's great. You know what I mean? But there is a basketball team is a living organism and all of the pieces fit together. And like, it would be who've Luca to start to learn how to adjust his game to fit better with others because of the specific fact that he will be on more talented teams as time go along. This has worked. He went to the Western Conference finals last year. I'm not trying to criticize him overall in terms of what he's capable of.

But the reality is, is like, hey, if you, you know, give the ball to Kyrie and maybe instead of running a high pick and roll where you dribble the air out of the basketball for 17 seconds, maybe you run down the floor and come off of a wide screen and use that as a dribble handoff and get downhill, you can use your same skill set, that same vision, that same size and strength and shot making ability more within the flow of what a team can do as a unit to, and then embracing getting in shape to be able to be a more of an impact player defensively. I think, look, here's the thing. The pouting, I absolutely believe that has a negative effect on the psyche of a basketball team. When they see their star constantly bitching and moaning at the refs. And when he's constantly not running back on defense and you can tell his head is not in it. Again, I loved how you brought up Carmelo Anthony because that's such an interesting comp to me. I mean, they're obviously different positions.

but and everybody said they love Carmelo, man, he gave you, it was about Carmelo getting his shot. He wouldn't even adjust to a three point shot. Like he was bizarrely rigid in his style of play. A hundred percent. Like they're not the same player, obviously. It's more just relative to the rest of the league and the way his progression went. Like, like LeBron was a little bit better than Carmelo. And over the years, LeBron kept getting better and Mello just kind of stayed the same.

I mean, he got moderately better in some areas of his offensive skill set, but he never became an impact defensive player. He never became a top-tier playmaker. He never evolved in those other areas of his game. And was threatened. Yes. Yes. And I think Luca at times feels a little threatened. First of all, he's from outside of the country.

So players like that, I mean, you have to ingratiate yourself to a new culture and a new country. That's really difficult. The other thing, Jason, is if you look at Dirk and, Ivitsky and Dallas, probably as beloved a player as the league's had. Everybody loved Dirk. Not everybody loves Luca. He's got a much more temperamental, moody personality. So he's naturally going to create some disharmony in the room.

He's just a moody guy. Dirk wasn't. So the Mavericks multiple times switched pieces with Dirk. Almost everything worked with Dirk. it just didn't get a championship. But like he didn't have, there was no like clashes of culture. Everybody liked Dirk. Nobody likes Luca.

Like it's a big difference. I think Luca's a better player. But at this point, somebody said this years ago to me. They're like, in football, half time, defense goes to the right, offense goes to the left. In baseball, a third of the teams in the bullpen. It's 13 dudes on the bench, every practice, on that plane. Like if one guy's music's too loud on the plane, now you have headphones now, but years ago, it's like one guy can ruin an NBA locker room. And if the star is difficult, it's a bad locker room.

I think the Mavs are a bit of an S show right now. And I think Luca, I mean, again, they're going to put the PR people to work in Dallas. It's all good. Luca's going to love it. but when you watch him play, he aggravates me at times with his barking to the officials, like on every play. It's such a love-hate relationship for me because as a basketball fan, there's so many things with Luca that I'm drawn to.

Like, he is one of the best players that I've ever seen in terms of getting, beating people off the dribble without an athletic advantage, which is so hard to do. It's like, it's kind of the Austin Reeves thing. Like, it's all, it's all misting. direction and like having every move irrevocably attached to a counter move that's equally as effective and never telegraphing your moves. And like, Luca, there's so many things that I love about his game and I hate watching him because of

his approach, not only with the heliocentric, you know, just dribble the air out of the basketball every time, but also with the attitude stuff. And again, it's a crossroads. He's either going to be the Carmelo of this era or he's going to be an all time great. And, you know, what, you know, what's interesting is if you would ask everybody two years ago, You know, or all of you can just say last year during the Western Conference finals, who are the two best players, you know, that you'd want for the next 10 years. It'd be Janus and Luca and it'd be pretty close, right? Like they'd be neck and neck with a slight edge to Janus.

I hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations where Janus just dramatically separates himself because Luca plateaus. That's a problem potentially. Well, I mean, listen, LeBron was more physically gifted than Carmelo. But as they drifted apart, a lot of it was, LeBron got along with more players, could play with more players, was more amenable to different styles.

I mean, Miami had no size. He and Wade were duplication. He never liked Mario Chalmers. I mean, it was like they threw him with Ray Allen's and Shane Badiens and Mike Millers. And LeBron made it work. At the time,

Spolster was a kid coach. And LeBron made it work. And then he goes to Cleveland again. And he makes it work. And he goes to Los Angeles. And he makes it work. If you give LeBron, I mean,

was fun, but I think people forget, he and LeBron were pretty good together. And J.R. Smith was weird and, you know, a little eccentric. And some viewed as difficult, kind of an ISO act, you know, super talented. LeBron made it work. LeBron and him were close, despite that one timeout, right, that they called. So, and I think Janus sort of is amenable to a lot of different teammates and players. Luca so far isn't. Like, I mean, look at, they just bring in Jay Crowder and then Joe Ingalls and Drew Holliday and Chris Middleton was like they stole him, I think, from like Detroit.

He's worked with all of them. He works with everybody. And Brooke Lopez, another big, he's not threatened at all. Like, it matters a lot. And it's just like I always felt Carmelho was threatened. Luca feels a little threatened. Janus never does. LeBron never has.

I mean, God, he goes into my mind. Miami. It's D. Wade City. And it's like, all right, let's go for it. I mean, he could have picked anywhere to go, right? He goes to the probably the single most beloved player in any city. Y'all go to your city. I mean, that was rife with issues. Could you have seen Carmelo going down there and making it work? His insecurities would have just flourished. So I, I'm not anti-Luca, but it's just like we've got to have, I think we're moving to the second phase, which is, okay, not all these issues. shoes are Carmelo Anthony's teammates. Summer Carmelow. Volume.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.