The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Lakers Primed For Playoffs, Jokic The Best “Big” Ever? Warriors/Rockets Will Be A Battle, OKC Primed To Be Upset?

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the play-in games and preview the NBA playoffs! They start with the Warriors surviving the Grizzlies in the play-in game, why their lack of size and supporting cast could prove to be their Achilles heel in the postseason, and why the Rockets could prove to be a tough matchup for Golden State (3:00). They pivot to Lakers vs. Timberwolves, why facing the Lakers is the worst case scenario for the Wolves, and why the trio of Luka, LeBron and Reeves will overwhelm Minnesota (12:45).  Colin explains why he doesn’t buy the Clippers late season run and why he doesn’t see any chance Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets get bounced in the first round of the playoffs (23:45). They discuss why the Nuggets quitting on defense is what led to the firing of head coach Michael Malone (28:45) and debate whether Jokic is the greatest big to ever play the game (32:30). They break down the OKC Thunder’s historic point differential in the regular season, why that might not translate into postseason success and why their young roster could struggle in the playoffs (46:00). Finally, Colin compares the Celtics to the Spurs dynasty of the past and why he thinks they’re clearly the best team, but Jason offers one caveat (53:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio, nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7.

Hey, head over to iHeart.com. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free right now. Awesome health and wellness tips 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Remember, stick to the fight. When your hardest hit, it's when things seem worse that you must not quit. Don't quit. Body by Jake Radio, where Hope meets. Momentum. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day. I heart radio. The volume.

All right, here we go. Jason Timph, hoops tonight. We got a lot to talk about as the enblie a playoff start. All the odds provided by Draft King Sportsbook, by the way, when we mention them. So I'm going to pick an upset. I'm going to go Houston Rockets over the Warriors. And I don't want to do confirmation bias or recency bias because I watch them struggle against Memphis and need an inbound gaff by the Grizzlies to save it. But the Jonathan Cominga piece is really a problem. So we've talked about this. It's a highly sophisticated offense.

Veterans work. Igwadala, K.D. Andrew Bogot. They work. Steph, Clay, Drayman. They work. You can be a quirky player like Draymond Green and still be a catalyst. What doesn't work is Wiseman. Jordan Poole, DeAngelo Russell, who's a bit squirly when he was younger.

And Cominga's productive, but you can't put him on the floor. with this unit. Kerr is it's do not play. Coach's decision, and they're dying for length. I mean, I'm watching last night. Zach Edie is a huge problem. They don't have any length. And here comes Houston. They defend the three. Mon Thompson gave Steph Fitz last time they played. Length. Now, Kerr's the best coach. Curry's the best player. I am not denying that. But, and if the games are close, Jason, you'll take the warrior. Their clutch points are great. They're going to win these one-point games.

Like last night, it's just a great example of how the warriors can manipulate the clock, possessions, and get better defensively when they have to. I don't like this matchup. I was looking at the odds. I don't like this matchup for the Warriors. Right now, the rockets are plus 165. Again, odds provided by Draft Kings. I'm calling the upset. You think I'm crazy?

size, lack of depth, Curry dependent, what say you? I don't want to see you're crazy. I think this is, let's just put it this way. I think that a defensive-minded Rockets team is more capable of beating Golden State than say a defensive-minded magic team is capable of beating Boston.

That said, I think that the other side of the floor is where it's going to become a problem. I have no doubts that Houston is going to cause problems for Golden State's offense. in their last four games they've held them to 105 or fewer and all four of them they've held them below 100 three times they have a bunch of different things that they do that bother them they put alper and shangoon on moses moody which is really smart because it allows them to put all of their three best perimeter defenders on draymond jimmy and step and just switch any action that involves those three amen thompson is one of the most gifted athletes

in terms of foot speed in the league he may be the best athlete in the series yeah absolutely and the the rockets have a zone look that worked really well against the warriors a couple weeks ago there i have no doubts that the rockets will be able to drag the warriors offense down into the mud here's the problem i think the i think the warriors defense is nearly as good as houston's defense and i think that they are more capable of doing more damage to a shangoon jalen green fred van fleet led offense then the rockets can do to the warriors on the other end of the floor I would not be surprised if it's a longer series. As a Lakers fan, I hope that it's very physical and that it wears them down.

But I just have a really hard time believing that the Rockets are going to be able to score enough to beat the Warriors four times. Now, they have shot better in the second half of the season. They have. They have. So there is, here's the thing. Explain the Kaminga piece. So listen, I was told this years ago by an NFL executive. He says, be very careful about the last 20 games of the season.

you're going to see teams with winning streaks. Half the league's tanking and half the league is resting starters for the playoffs. So the Clippers go on this great last 15 games. And the Warriors have that energy when Jimmy Butler arrives. And they're playing bad teams. And they're just rolling people. And you're like, oh, my God. And I fell for it.

And I said, oh, wait until Kaminga comes back. It was about three games with Kaminga in this group. And Steve Kerr's like, yeah. I'm not. Why doesn't it work with him? Because I could argue he's a guy. exactly what they need against Houston. Size, athletic ability, length.

They look small last night against Memphis. Yeah, you know, right when the Jimmy trade went down, one of my initial takeaways was this is the end of Jonathan Caminga in his time with the Golden State Warriors in terms of just him being a meaningful contributor to this team. The thing is, is they were banking on Jonathan Caminga becoming that player for the warrior, becoming the Jimmy Butler type of player for the Warriors. a big forward that they could put next to Draymond.

That would be the scoring pop alongside the starters. As soon as they got Jimmy, they no longer had a role for him anymore. You want to know why Kerr went with Guy Santos last night? It's because Guy Santos plays the same position, but he can count on Guy to not do anything stupid to just play super hard, to grab every rebound he can get, to take a wide open catch and shoot three. Jonathan Caminga's upside is on the ball. If you clear the side for him and you let him go one-on-one facing up 18 feet from the

basket. He has a lot of potential in the long term to be very good at that. But he's not good enough at it now to take reps away from Steph and away from Jimmy. And so all they need from him is to play defense, to knock down wide open catch and shoot threes, and to play in their read and react in the half court. And he's not very good at any of those three things. And so it just is kind of like a death sentence in that regard for his role here. And I do think that it's probably in the best interest of everybody involved after this season is over to look to move on from Kaminga. That said, you made a very interesting point specifically about this matchup. I understood the case for the DNPs with Kaminga for the last couple games.

Super important games. You need higher floor, lower ceiling. Like you need fewer mistakes. Yes. You couldn't take a risk with mistakes in those games. So I understood that case. Specifically for this matchup with Houston, they are so big and so athletic that I think it could, I think it could be a Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kaminga type of series. I think the two of them and their athletic advantages could be something they have to lean on a lot, especially if the perimeter defense of Houston wears step down over the course of the series. So if I was Kerr, I would definitely give Kaminga some burn here in the first couple games of this series just to see what he's got. Now, if he's terrible, bail on him, go back to your rotation that's used in the last couple of games.

but I think he's an asset as an athlete that you can't afford to keep in your back pocket for a series like this. And the Rockets are, first of all, they defend the three. They got the best athlete in the series, and they rebound really well. They're going to get more. If Kaminga doesn't play a lot, they're going to get second. They're going to get a lot of offensive rebounding throughout this series. Looney's going to play a lot. You're going to have to play them.

If you don't play Kaminga a lot, you're giving up, you're going to give up the class. And you can win a series losing on the, you know, in the world we play in. now, you know, Boston can lose the rebounding battle and hit 28-3s and they win the game by 15. But I'll tell you, I think Houston, I think, I think Houston's really going to challenge them. And I think they're going to be low-scoring. I think the one advantage that is clear-cut, and you saw it last night with the Warriors, they're so good with 220 to play in a tie game. They are, they just know, I mean, it's almost like,

I mean, you know, people grabbing and clutching staff, and you have to be more careful late because they may call a foul. And it's just, they just figure out ways to get Steph really good looks. It's almost like red zone offense in the NFL where it's cluttered and jammed. And yet the good teams find open people. I mean, he just, I watched them. And I, like last night they had a great game plan, jump out to a 16 point lead, 18 point lead, 20 point lead. But in the end, you're like, they just.

don't have bodies. They look incredibly small. And I just think that size is going to make, I think they're the close games, Golden State wins, but I'm going to give Houston a couple of games where they just dominate the glass, the Warriors look tired, and they blow them out. It'll be a weird looking series. Yeah, I said something similar in my series preview. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a game either early in the series, like a game one or like a game five with the Warriors are up 3-1 where the Rockets just beat the heck out of them and win by like 25, 30 points. They get going in transition. They look super athletic.

I'm with you overall with the Warriors in the sense that like there was this stretch post deadline where they were beating everybody. And yeah, the schedule was weak, but then they got a couple of impressive wins. You beat a decent Memphis team. You beat a Nuggets team without Jamal Murray. You beat that Lakers team. That was one of the biggest wins that they had all season. That was a big nationally televised super important game for both teams that they won.

But then after that, It's like they lose to Houston. They lose to San Antonio. They beat Portland, but then they lose to the clippers at home in a must-win game. And then last night for stretches, they looked unimpressive as they were trailing in the fourth quarter. So I'm kind of up in the air with the Warriors in general now because it's hard to tell how good they really are when they killed everybody for like two months. And then for the last two weeks, they've looked pretty unimpressive. So I'm kind of up in the air with them.

The main reason why I've been dropping them down is in terms of where I'd rank them among content. is I don't trust their shooting. Their shooting can go ice cold around Steph Curry. And then as you mentioned, they're a little bit vulnerable to size and physicality, which I think can cause some problems for them. I view them as a little bit more of a flawed contender now than I did two weeks ago. All right, Lakers, all odds provided by draft kings are minus 1.95 against the T-Wolves. I think this is a very favorable Laker matchup.

And I think it's pretty obvious. The Timberwolves outside of Aunt Edwards, he's going to have to score 40 in a couple of these games. Julius Randall has historically kind of the classic plays hard, plays with energy, very successful in the regular season, but everybody in the postseason plays with energy, and he comes right back. He regress, the regression's clear. He's a B player who plays with A energy, and that is really valuable in the regular season. And then you get to the postseason, and everybody's got equal time off, and he's a B player and doesn't create, sometimes can get a little ball selfish.

Gobert is not an offensive player. Mike Conley's a play initiator, but doesn't provide much offense. And the Lakers are the rare team. I mean, Boston may be the only team in the league that does this, that has three playmakers and three play initiators, and at any one time can have the three best offensive players playing well on the floor. I don't think it's a good matchup for Minnesota at all. This was the bad draw, in my opinion, for the T-Wolves.

What do you think? I totally agree. I think there's a basic talent. argument you can make for L.A., which is like, who's better, or Luca? You're taking Luca. Who's better, LeBron or Julius Randall? Yeah. You're taking LeBron. Who's better, Austin Reeves or a Jaden McDaniels or a Rudy Gobert or Dante Devenzo. You're taking Austin Reeves. So I think the Lakers' top three guys

are just better, and I think that that could be enough to make the case. Where I think it gets really interesting is the Timberwolves' greatest strength on defense, is their combination of perimeter defenders and Rudy Gobert at the rim and the Lakers can neutralize that. Unfortunately, as we saw in the Western Conference finals last year,

the best perimeter defender on Minnesota, Jada McDaniels can't guard Luca. He's too skinny. Luca can just throw him around like a ragdoll. None of the perimeter defenders on Minnesota make Luca uncomfortable and the Lakers with their five out groups with Doreen Phine Smith instead of Jackson Hayes,

they can space Rudy out to where he cannot protect the rim without conceding a wide open three. When Rudy's on the perimeter, he's still a good defender, but he's not the transcendently impactful defender he is when he can sit right underneath the basket. So I think they neutralize him there. On the other end of the floor, the Lakers have struggled against spread out shooting, like against Boston, and really smart teams with speed like Golden State. Those are the teams that have really caused the Lakers issues post-Luca trade. You know who the Lakers have not struggled with post-Luca trade defensively? The teams that they can lower.

up on. You can load up on the Timberwolves. They are not a good spot up team. They are a team that you can put two on the ball with Ant and not get burned. That's right. With high level playmaking. It's just, I look at this as a series where just all of the strengths and weaknesses line up in a way to where I think the Lakers just have a big advantage. This was one of the few series that I picked in five games. I think the Lakers are going to beat them in five. Yeah, I feel the same way. And the Lakers, I could be wrong on this. I think they play as good at defense as they need to. I think that when I watch them play out, there are times I'm like,

oh, this is one of those games they really care about. And then there are other times I'm like, they're just not talking. This is one of those. They either all went out and had a nice dinner last night and Balabino. They're just not. When I watch them, I think they're as good as they want to be defensively. I don't think they're great. But like Denver's got limitations.

There's just things, I mean, Yokic, there's just limitations. I think the Lakers actually have some pretty, good length and defensive personnel outside of Luca. I think they'll play good defense in the playoffs because they'll want to. They're a want team. When they want to, I think they're pretty capable. Yeah. And when you're as good offensively as they've been with their best groups, and by the way,

that group with Dorian, Finney Smith, and Rui next to LeBron, Luca, and Austin has been torching everybody for a long time. Now, that unit can really score the ball. So they have some margin for error on that side of the floor. It really is about LeBron. LeBron, as like the orchestrator on the backline, he played. plays that Draymond Green-esque role, just telling everybody where to go, calling out the plays as they're starting to take shape. And then Jared Vanderbilt, Rui Hachamura, Dorian Finney Smith. It's just a lot of six-nine rangey athletes that can cover ground.

I'm not going to lie, Colin, like the Lakers certainly have an uphill climb and there are going to be multiple series where they'll be an underdog if they get to the third and fourth round. But this could not have broken better for them than it did. Now you only have to play one of Denver OKC and the Clippers. Those are three of the most dangerous teams in the West. They only have to play one of them. So I think it actually broke really nicely for them here. If they can take care of business against the Timberwolves and beat whoever comes out of that Warriors Rocket Series, they're right there against OKC in the conference finals.

I think they've got a really good chance. The NBA 82 game grind is done. Now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs. Love them. They're here. Time for drama. Clutch moments.

Steph Curry, LeBron, jaw-dropping plays. I can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting, Draft King's Sportsbook has you covered. They're the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Playing games all the way to the finals. Now's the time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. So all season long,

Draft King's been the go-to spot for NBA player props. That doesn't stop now. If you want to make your playoff experience even more intense, try placing a bet on your favorite player's performance. Will they drop 30, 40? Who knows? Or more, it's your call. If you're ready to place your first bet,

download the Draft King Sportsbook app takes 90 seconds, lock in your bets, and let's make the playoffs unforgettable. Here's something special for first-timers. Draft Kings customers that are new, bet five bucks, that's it, five bucks, and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Just make it a playoff run to remember with Draft Kings. Download their sportsbook app.

Takes 90 seconds. The code's Colin, C-O-L-I-N. That is code Colin. New customers get $200 bucks in bonus bets. Betting just five. Only on Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler.

In New York, call 877-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-6-7-369. Connecticut help is available for problem gambling, call 888-7-8-8-9-77- Or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news.

We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our time. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember. Remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's funny when I look. So Denver takes on the Clippers, and the Clippers played very well down the stretch. And again, half the league's tanking, half a resting starters. I did think the winner of a Golden State was impressive. I thought James Hardin in overtime was great. I thought Kauai being Kauai, I mean, you never know when he's going to play, but when he does, he's still, he's got so many components that remind me of a little bit of a poor man, Michael, Kobe, the hand size, this physical strength, despite not being a heavy player. He's a very unique player.

I mean, five years ago, I thought he was a top three player in the league. I was like, he's a get a bucket, get a stop guy. And he, you know, in the last couple of weeks, you're like, wow, he is back. and he's just a hard guy to get a read on him. That's why basically Pop just said, I'd rather not make the playoffs. I'm not going to deal with this. He's an enigma.

They don't have, besides their starting center, Zubot, they don't have any size. I mean, their backup center is Ben Simmons. There's just nothing there. So Yokic is going to have a monster, just a monster series. And also, they're so bad when the Joker's not on the floor

that he's going to play 40 minutes. like they just can't operate without him. This is weird. I thought Denver was going to be a dynasty. They're not. And I knew Malone would wear everybody out. He's not a spolstra occurred. He's not the kind of part psychologist, part coach.

He's a little bit of an old school, intense barker. I want to play who I want to play. Battled with the GM. But I don't know if I buy the Clippers' late season run. I don't know if I do. and I get the world's best basketball player. I don't trust Harden in big playoff spots. I know I'm supposed to take the clippers,

but I just can't see Yokic getting run out of the NBA playoffs in one round. So the point you're making about the regular season results down the stretch is a really important one. It's really the middle tier that is going as hard as they can in this space. That's right. the top tier teams are like we're just trying to be healthy for our first round series the bottom tier teams are we just want cooper flag the middle tier teams are all like we do not want to be in the play in so we're going to go every single game like all these teams basically from the lakers all the way down through the suns have been playing must win basketball every single night since the trade deadline has passed that's what happens when you have the play in tournament in the mix and so i do think there's something to be said about some of the fake results you could see at this point. The only thing that makes it a little more complicated with the Clippers is the Kauai Leonard part. You are taking a team that was already a rock solid basketball culture,

anchored by James Hardin, a very great floor-raising perimeter player in the NBA. Zubots has become one of the top six or seven centers in the NBA. You have the elite perimeter defense talent of Derek Jones Jr. and Chris Dunn, one of the craziest subplots of the year is them pivoting from Paul George, who averaged 23 points a game for them last year and then being like, no thank you in taking two discounted perimeter athletes and Derek Jones and Chris Dunn and basically getting a better roster out of it, which is just a huge credit to that organization and them just prioritizing the right things and the culture they're trying to build there.

But you're adding to that, a player in Kauai Leonard, that legitimately at this point is an Apex superstar in this league. When he actually has his legs underneath him, the way he's had him late, the ability to get to his spot, the ability to get lift. He was going on Jimmy Butler and making it look easy. Going against Dremont Green and making it look easy. He is at his peak as that type of get a stop, get a bucket type of guy right now. That is what changes the ceiling for me with the clippers. I look at it pretty simply. They have four awesome offensive players. Zoo is like good for 20 points a game these days. Hardin's good for 20 points a game. Powell's good for 20 points a game.

and Kawhi Leonard on any given night can go toe to toe with the best superstars in the league. You surround that with a strong defensive foundation, elite perimeter defense for 48 minutes. Jamal Murray's going to have Derek Jones and Chris Dunn all over him that entire series. Zoo even is one of the rare guys who's big and strong enough to kind of hang with Yokic a little bit. Yokic tried to post up Zubots six times this season, went one for six from the field. Now, I think he'll do a little better. he's too good to not figure that out. But him posting up Zoo is not the same as him posting up

these other skinny centers that he posts around the league. It's a little bit harder for him to win the ground battle there. Really what caused me to pick the clippers in this matchup was the defense for Denver. Right, right. The Denver's defense is so far gone, Colin. It's like so far gone. It's like off the reservation gone.

It doesn't even slightly resemble the defense they won the championship with. You know what? And they're just not close. Part of it, and I really believe, leave defense's effort, not to interrupt you. Offense is fun. Defense is not. You could tell Malone was in trouble to me when I watched their defense.

I thought, okay, they're not playing hard for the coach. Like if a team's playing great defense and they're just limited offensively, some of that's just lack of talent. When a team, and Denver's not a great defensive team, Gordon's very long and athletic, but when they stopped playing defense this year, and I don't know what the analytics said, but when I watched them, I mean, teams scored easily.

Remember the Lakers went down there and just got great looks for two hours? I'm like, okay, Malone's in big trouble. Because the great defensive teams, I mean, Boston, for as good as they are, can play defense. That means they're in tune with Missoula. Defense is coaching an effort. And so I think a lot of,

and I think the problem for Denver, And a Memphis, by the way, is when you lose your coach, and now you've got kind of the substitute teacher who's not as good as a head coach, that's the difference. That's why I think Houston, they like their coach. They can hang with Golden State is they'll just give you an incredible effort every night. And I think Denver's biggest problem is they quit on their coach. And when you quit on your coach, you quit on defense.

Because it's a lot of freaking work in this league to stop marginal players. Forget the SARS. No, absolutely. And it's all about like habits. And this is the thing, Denver is starting from a position of disadvantage on defense. Yokic is not a good defender. Jamal Murray is not a good defender. Michael Porter Jr. is not a good defender. So when they were at their best defensively, it was a combination to your point of strong game planning that fit their personnel and a commitment every day to be like, we're going to be so sharp in these habits that even though we have these weak points, we're going to find a way to get enough stops that our offense can carry us over the top. The problem this year is they've let

let go of those habits. And what gets scary is calling like it's April 16th. There aren't too many examples in NBA history of a team who played bad defense all year who was like, all right, we got the coach we want now. Let's go, let's go figure this out. I just have a hard time believing that they're just going to snap their fingers and look like the 2023 nuggets. And again, they're capable. I've watched Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal and Yokic play much better defense than they've played this season. It's just hard to just start that engine from scratch. And so here's the thing. Maybe they figure it out and I can't write them off. This was the hardest series for me to pick, Colin, by far. And right now in Draft Kings, if I'm not mistaken, it's a pickum. It's minus

110 both ways. So like it is, it is as close as it can get. But the reason why I ended up taking the Clippers is, I just think they're substantially better defensively and closer to Denver offensively than Denver is to them on the other end of the board. Well, and Ty Lou is probably worth a game in the series. Let's be honest. if you have a coaching advantage, it's a game in the series. You make an adjustment and the other coaching staff doesn't. I think football coaching is more valuable than basketball coaching. But I can go back to a couple of those.

That Warrior series, when they beat the Celtics in the finals, and they went back to Boston, boy, that was a lot of coaching. That was great coaching by Steve Kerr. So I think Ty Lou is one of the more understated. You know, he's not a guy that needs a lot of publicity. He was a grinder as a player. He's a grinder as a coach. But he'll be worth a game against, you know, against the substitute teacher.

He's going to be worth a game in the series. So I agree. I think the clippers are going to win, too. But it is hard because I said this the other day. I had actually somebody come up to me on the street. And he was a former Laker. It was Sasha. And I said, I said, the best center I've ever seen, complete player is Kareem.

And I grew up with him. He was a 14, 15 time, all defensive team, ran the floor when he was young, rebound, an unstoppable offensive force, cerebral, prickly, but could throw an elbow, you know, ask Kent Benson, I think the player he went after. He could give you everything. He was wiry, but he could be physical. I think because of that defensive prowess, he is better than Yokic. I think Yokic is the second most gifted center of all time.

Now, people would say Wilt, but Wilt was flaky. You didn't know what the effort you got. He wasn't easy to play with. you got different variations of Wilt, depending on the night before. And Wilt was kind of into Wilt. Where I think Yokic is actually a really good team player. I just think he's not engaged defensively all the time. But I, outside of Kareem, I mean, generally with the center, I can say Shack Power, Russell defense,

Akeem footwork. I can say something. I look at Yokch and I'm like, like, like, If Kareem, I mean, if Kareem Arvita Sabonis, Bill Walton had a baby, it's like, you know, I think Bill Walton is the one player very briefly. Not the old Walton with the Celtics, who was great, but he wasn't as good as the UCLA or the Portland Walton. There was a time when Bill Walton was like the best passing big ever, the best mid-range jumper, ran the floor, could be super physical, kind of weird. But I think Yokic is, I just don't think I've ever quite seen anything like him. That's my dad.

I don't know if I've ever seen anything like him. He's the best offensive player I've ever seen, Colin. Wow. And I have watched and rooted for two of the greats that have ever done that, or rooted for or against, I should say. I think LeBron is on the short list of guys who are in that conversation. I think Steph is on the short list of guys who are in that conversation. having rooted for LeBron and then being terrified of Steph

and rooting against him over the years, I know what it's like to be on the other end of a player who legitimately creates a great shot almost every time down the floor. Yokic makes it look even easier than those guys do. It's the top-tier playmaking piece that you get from LeBron, the inverted spacing that you get from Steph that creates all the dunks and layups right underneath the basket, but mixed in with the lack of variance.

because like Steph, like, Steph will have games where he just can't make a shot. Right. You know, that doesn't happen with Yokic.

Like, if he gets into the five to 10 foot range, it's going in two out of three times, like clockwork. He's going to make it. And so there's a lack of variance. There's a power element to it. He can kind of audible into different players.

Like, it's like, okay, I'm playing the spurs. I'm just going to post up every single time down the floor. Watch it, watching this Clippers series,

we won't see as much Yokich postups. It's not his advantage. But guess what? what? He can run inverted ball screens and like literally play pick and roll as the handler out on the perimeter. He can run two-man game with Jamal Murray. His versatility and dependability night tonight mixed with all the inverted stuff he does with the spacing. I have never seen a player make it look easier on offense than Nicola Yokic did. It's rooting against him as absolute hell having had to do that over the last couple of years. He deserves a good amount of criticism for what

happened to their defense this year, especially in the second half of the year, I thought he just straight up mailed it in. But you made some good points about how that might have had something to do with Mike Ballone. I agree with you. But even if you just take that and set it aside, he still had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the league because he's the greatest offensive player to ever touch the floor. Yeah, it is, you know, it's funny because Luca and him have kind of similar body types where they're in great shape probably, you know, relative to for the type. But Luke has got a lot of

hirk and jerk and start and stop to his game that gets open. He's very good at, he just keeps you constantly on his hip and off balance. You're never quite sure. He's not fast, but he is kind of quick for his size, and he's always bouncing off you. Never loses kind of composure or the

ball while there's contact. But it's a start-stop game that's hard to defend. Yok is just sort of rolls in you. And I think a lot of players, like Draymond has said this, there's no real book on him because it's, you know, in the NFL, there's always that they always talk about that bad body offensive lineman. Donald Penn was known as this for the Raiders. Bad body, so effective. Like there was no weak spot. He was weirdly long and he had a weird ass and his shoulders were huge.

And it was like a bad body offensive lineman where it's like, yeah, it's just. defensive players couldn't quite figure out a weak spot. I think there's nobody else kind of quite built like him that plays like him. So, you know, I mean, there are certain guys in this league. I mean, just think about it. If you do the silhouette, nobody else had the sky hook. Nobody quite moves cardio-wise like Steph. I think part of what he does is no other big, when you play him, it's just, okay,

there's no warm up. This is the only guy that plays like this. And I'm not saying the league is similar, but there are a lot of twitchy, long, athletic guys who have similar moves that they've learned from camps and coaches, right? And certain step moves. I think Yokic is a disaster to defend the body. I mean, a lot of times he just leans in and you get trapped under him. You ever see this when these big guys get trapped? and he gets like three looks and you just can't you can't get your hips aligned to box him out

you can't jump when you're connected with him that's the thing this is why boxing out is so important when you box a player out it keeps him groundbound so that you can come in from behind to get the rebound elsewhere on the floor similarly yokich does the same thing to defensive players he's constantly dislodging you and putting you in these situations where you are not athletic because he's disrupted your base so you can't jump and then that way he just finds these little angles for these little release points. I love the point you made about how the league has changed, because I found this to be really fascinating. So part of Michael Jordan's dominance was that the league was so big and slow. And so he was this lightning quick guard that could just cut through everyone

like butter. Similarly with Yokic, the league is so thin and fast that he's just a bowling ball that's just knocking everybody over on his way to the rim in a weird way. Part of it is just the timing of the era. But to his credit, because this is the thing, there are a lot of big centers that can't play in the NBA today because they can't do this or they can't do that. They struggle with this. They struggle with that. Yokic, because he's good enough in all of these other areas to be a useful NBA player, can weaponize his size. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, man, there's 450 players in this league. And Joe L. Embed might be the only guy big enough to actually deal with him. And he's not even healthy all the time. So he just has a

mismatch every single night because of the era that he plays in. Well, it's, it's like Derek Henry, the running back for the Ravens, as linebackers and safeties have gotten smaller because the game is faster, linebackers are 225. Derek Henry is 250. So, you know, 20 years ago, linebackers were as big as Derek Henry. And now guys can't, they just, Derek is a physical mismatch, and he gets a running start. And I do think that, I've said it, the league over the last 12 years has become kind of the skinny jeans Euro League. Like, it's a lot of centers that weigh 243, and he's just a load physically. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. Yeah, she's an outsider to win the French.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business, brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwiskey.com and discover legend in a bottle today.

All right. One final thing. I was talking to Chris Broussard about this today. So if you look at the point differential, I think the OKC Thunder set an NBA record historically for point differential at the end of the season. They ran a lot of teams out of the gym. So they have the advantage of they got a dominant score. So they always know at the end of a clock, they always know who to go to.

They've got size. They've got depth. They're well-coached. And because they don't have a trophy yet, they play their ass off. This is a team that wants home court advantage. They're young enough where they know if there is any disadvantage in the playoffs. It's young guys playing road games at the Chase Center, you know, at crypto. Like that, that's when they play a veteran team on the road.

That's where things get dicey. You don't get those calls. Roll players in the playoffs, don't play well in the road. They're often very good at home. So they want home court advantage. So part of me thinks, okay, they're a little overvalued as a team because they really, remember the Derek Rose Bulls teams? Those teams played so hard.

They wanted home court advantage. They were young. Boston's like, sometimes plays better on the road than at home. You know, it doesn't really matter for them. I look at O.K.C. And I think, okay, if you take the regular season, they should sort of roll. through this. But I watched them about six times this year in a big game

when they played, you know, the Lakers or the Celtics or the calves. Or the bucks. And you're like, yeah, when everybody brings the energy, I don't think they're sweeping series.

I think they'll struggle a little bit on the road. I mean, they can get really SGA reliant. I mean, he is, and also I don't think he'll, quite get the whistle. We've seen this with Hardin.

We saw it with Carl Malone. I mean, they're not getting bounced early. But I think it'll look a little different in the postseason. I agree. I think they'll kick the shit out of whoever gets the eight seed, like Sacramento or Memphis or whatever. Like those teams, I think they'll deal with. Memphis has been turning down for a long time.

There's actually a long conversation we could have on another day about how Memphis should probably totally reconsider who they build their team around because it just doesn't look even remotely good enough. But Sacramento doesn't have the horses defensively. Dallas because of the injury to Kyrie Irving doesn't have the ball handling. They're going to beat whoever they get in that first round series.

But from there, it's like they're going to get either that awesome Clippers team or Nicola Yokich. And then on the other side of the bracket, they're going to get most likely either the Lakers or the Warriors waiting for them on the other side there. And the Warriors have beat the Thunder. this year. The Lakers have beat the Thunder this year. I watched it. They have, they have, they have, they have their advantages in that matchup.

As a matter of fact, I'd probably pick the Lakers to beat them if they ran into them in a series. And so it's one of those things where I think I look back to several of these big games and the same thing has happened in every single one of them, which is all of the younger stars. And I like Chet is, Chet is going to be a perennial all NBA guys. Really good player. J. Dub is going to be a perennial all star. I'm a huge believer in that rock. are in the big picture, but those are some young dudes, Colin. And there is something to be said about basketball aura, and you end up on a court with a bunch of guys who are more comfortable and more confident and more experienced than you. And let's say the Thunder make it to the finals. Let's say they get to the finals and they run into Boston. How many times in NBA history,

it just happened to Boston in 2022. You end up there and it's like all of a sudden, Tatum is just like scared and not playing anything like he normally does. And they're just, succumbing to the aura of the warriors over the course of that series. Even the all-time greats, Colin, Steph was pretty rough in his first NBA finals. LeBron was brutal in his first NBA finals. It is totally normal when you get to that stage to be like, whoa, this is different. There's way more media. The games feel weird. It's just a very different type of vibe. And so I think my concern is that they have two reliable things. I think their defense is reliable. And I think, and I think Shea is reliable. But I do think there's absolutely a great deal of variance in their supporting

offensive talent. And if you have that kind of variance, you absolutely can lose to the clippers, you absolutely can lose to the Knuggers, you absolutely can lose to the Lakers or Warriors. Well, I mean, we saw it in college basketball. I didn't pick Duke to win it. Why? Too many young players. You get into these close games. You get into against more physical teams. And like, if you've never made a long playoff run and you're really talented, you can't believe how freaking physical the conference finals gets. I mean, it is noticeable, Jason. The referees change the way they officiate for the conference finals. I mean, they swallow the whistle. And you'll notice it a little bit early in the playoffs, but a lot of times, I can remember that

OKC team that had Harden and Westbrook and Kevin Durant. They were really good. And they just didn't, like, they just quite didn't quite, you know, in the regular season, they fly into town, they blitz you, you look at a little bit of film, they had too much offense, it's like, what the hell is this? And everybody just kind of, you know, at that point, we didn't know exactly what Hardin was going to be. I think they're going to find out in the conference final. By the second series, they're going to find out on the road, it's a totally different sport. NBA history tells us that this teams like this Thunder team usually win. like next year or the year after.

Cleveland two years ago we thought was ready. It's like it's just what usually happens is you take a couple of hard losses in late playoff rounds and a couple of key players take those losses to heart and make important improvements in specific parts of their game

and then they end up in a series where they're like a two seed instead of the runaway one seed and they're there and they're like we're not losing this year. And then they rise to the occasion and they get it done. It's kind of like what happened with the Celtics. You have the disappointment of what happened in 2022. Then it gets even worse in the conference finals next year. And it's like, whoa, Jalen Brown like really needs to improve as a ball handler. And then all of it just comes

together in 2024. All of a sudden, Jaylen Brown's winning finals MVP. Like it usually is incremental, not immediate when it comes to the success of these younger teams. And yeah, they'll have breakthroughs. They might upset somebody. I wouldn't be surprised if the Thunder made it to the finals this year. As a matter of fact, I still think they should be. be favored to win the West. But it's just, I have a really hard time believing that if they made it to the finals, they would be the more comfortable and more confident team against Boston. And I still think Boston has more talent than them. So I just would have a really hard time picking against them. Yeah, I think the Celtics are, I think if you look at the history of the NBA, because aesthetics

matters so much that we love the Shaq Kobe dynasty, the Michael dynasty, the Katie dynasty. We didn't love the Spurs Dynasty. And it was as good as any of it. of them because it wasn't as much fun. And I think because Boston doesn't have a ton of personality, Joe Missoula is very quiet, very Christian, very much about team and defense. He's a wonderful coach. No flash from the coach. Tatum can say he wants to be the face of the league, but he just doesn't have that aura. Jalen Brown's probably the voice of the locker room, but he's almost like academic and he feels sort of almost respectful when he's. speaks with confidence, right?

Porzingis isn't that guy. Drew Holliday is one of the league's most respected players. There's not a lot of... It's not a... Yeah, it's not a dynamic team. I think Boston's really good. And I think that's San Antonio. You had, man who's the best six-man ever.

Duncan's one of the ten best players ever. Tony Parker was an MVP. They had excellent Bruce Bowen, all sorts of different players that came in and played great roles. Popovich is the top five coach. we never mentioned them because aesthetically it just wasn't that much fun. I went to 10 Spurs games because I was in Portland at the time. And I went to 10 of their games, the Spurs games when they were in the dynasty.

Jesus, it was so clinical. It was a great surgeon walking in, you know, winning 101, 93, and it was like, did they break a sweat? It was just every game looked the exact same. and now Boston has very variation because of their three-point shooting. They have nights when they're just unbelievable and nights when they miss 42-3s. So there's great variables on how they play. I think there's, I mean, they have nine guys, 10 guys who can handle the ball, pass and shoot a three.

The only thing I'll say about Boston that's concerning me just a tiny bit. And it's just something we should keep on our radar calling because we could be having a very different conversation in a week or two. Jalen Brown got a pain relieving injection in his knee. I'm not sure if you saw that. He's been dealing with knee issues throughout the year and he got a pain relieving injection. When? This was about a week ago. And so Jalen's knee, let's say that becomes an issue and then like one of Horford or Porzingis goes down. That's where it could end up in a situation where you're trying to close games with a Samhouser on the floor or you're trying to close games with a Peyton Pritchard on the floor and suddenly they become a little bit easier to attack, a little bit

less dynamic on offense. I'm just, my ears are just a little pricked up and I'm a little, I'm paying attention to their health. That is one thing to keep an eye on just because Jalen Brown, I think, I think if you lose one of Tatum or Brown, it just gets really hard in terms of shot creation. Because as you saw in the Maverick series, just Jalen's apex athleticism is still an important part of the ceiling of this Celtics team, even though he can be a frustrating player, you know, relative to Tatum in terms of his consistency. So just something to keep an eye on there, but I do agree with you.

Every time I talk through it, I just have such an easier time discussing flaws and finding flaws with other teams than I do with Boston. It's really that simple. Jason, Tim, hoops tonight. Good talking to you, bud. Can't wait for it. Good to see you too, man.

I'll see you next time. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know,

tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed.

And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority of Black City, in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio, nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7. Hey, head over to iHeart.com. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free right now. Awesome help and wellness tips 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Remember, stick to the fight. When your hardest hit, it's when things seem worse that you must not quit. Don't quit.

Body by Jake Radio, where hope meets momentum. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day. IHeart Radio. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.