The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Lane Kiffin Bolts For LSU, Cowboys Defense BETTER After Parsons Trade, Ben Johnson Best Young Coach Since McVay

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down all the week 13 NFL action & top stories from college football. They start with Lane Kiffin leaving his highly ranked Ole Miss team for rival LSU ahead of the college football playoff & explain that while they feel for Ole Miss fans… this is a calendar issue that needs to be addressed that college football may need a president to oversee the entire operation (3:00).  They move to the NFL and start with the Bills beating the Steelers in a game where a bloodied Aaron Rodgers exited early. Colin highlights that the Steelers have no quarterback of the future and they debate what should be done with both Mike Tomlin and Sean McDermott (13:00). They revisit the Thanksgiving Day action and Colin argues that the Cowboys defense is actually improved after the Micah Parsons trade now that they’ve shored up their interior defensive line & have more flexibility (28:00).  They move to the Packers beating the Lions on Thanksgiving and Colin lauds Matt Lafleur for fixing the Packers broken passing attack and argues the Lions are MISSING Ben Johnson and will get worse before they get better (35:00). Staying on the topic of Ben Johnson, they discuss the Bears taking control of the #1 seed in the NFC after beating the Eagles and Colin argues Johnson is the best young head coach since Sean McVay (40:30). They also discuss the limitations of the Eagles passing offense and why Nick Sirianni is incredibly dependent on his coordinators (45:45).  They recap the 49ers win over the Browns and Colin argues the 49ers deserve “coaching staff of the year” after going 9-4 despite a rash of injuries(54:15), and believe you can’t take too much away from the Rams stepping in it and losing to the Panthers (59:15). After another quarterbacking disaster from the Vikings against the Seahawks, Colin argues they should trade for Mac Jones and move on from J.J. McCarthy (1:06:15). Finally, they move back to college football and Colin explains why Ohio State quarterback Julian Sayin looks like a future franchise quarterback in the NFL (1:18:30) and they credit Arch Manning for overcoming the noise and finding ways to play well late into the season (1:24:00). All lines provided by hardrock.bet (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The volume. Daniel Craig returns as Benoit Blank in Wake Up Dead Man, a Knives Out mystery with an all-star ensemble cast for his most dangerous case yet. When young priest, Judd DuPintasy, is sent to assist charismatic Fire Brown Monsignor Jefferson Wicks. It's clear that all is not well in the people. Puse. Written and directed by Ryan Johnson, critics are calling it the sharpest Knives Out movie yet. Watch Wake Up Dead Man, a Knives Out mystery in select theaters November 26 and on Netflix December 12th. Rated PG-13. All right, it's always weird doing the Sunday show after Thanksgiving because there's like 32 topics and nobody really cares about discussing Rams Panthers,

do they? No. Not really. Listen, I think we've, let's just address a massive college football story that you and I care about. So college football, what you saw Lane Kiffin do feels a little different now because of the college football playoff. You used to leave a program, you know, and they were going to a bowl game. They weren't playing for a national championship. And I don't think Ole Miss was going to win an Addy, but it wouldn't have shocked me with Lane Kiffin if they won two or three games and finished in the top two or three. so it does feel a little gross. But big picture is if you really think about what happened,

the NCAA four or five years ago was rigid. And you went from that, the rigidity of the NCAA to pure unadulterated, HGH-infused capitalism. And there's no boundaries. And it's the Wild, Wild West, just like the Wild Wild West in the 18th. You had territorial governors and you have commissioners of conferences, but everybody's in their own self-interest. And so, listen, this is Harbott of Michigan, Lane Kiffin to LSU. It's massive.

It'll be controversial. It'll be great for the sport. And one of the little guys gets burned. I don't lose sleep on this stuff because I've been watching it my entire life, but wasn't this bound to happen if you hired Kiffin? Yeah, I just think there's no easy way to leave a school anymore. You know, I mean, these schools now are paying $50 million for a guy to go away in the middle of October. So you have LSU out to poach your coach for the last month and a half. That's abnormal.

You know, these buyouts got so extreme were like, you and I kept saying, well, these guys are safe. Turns out they're not. And they're getting bought out left and right. I also think part of the problem for Lane is he's a controversial and polarizing figure. And he's really done a lot to change his image, right? the documentary that he did. You just look at him physically. What do you think he's lost?

30 pounds. Stop drinking. Politically, he's talked to big game, how this place changed his life, gets him into the playoffs and then leaves them for essentially their big brother, who I think it's hard. I understand where their fans are mad. But like I understand both sides. I just think these things are,

these things are ugly. It's pretty rare. Remember a couple years ago when Saban retired right after the national championship game and DeBore just left Washington? and it was a pretty seamless, you know, from Washington to Alabama, because everyone was done. You're seeing, you know, this cycle, all these, Penn State doesn't even have a coach. Right. And we can argue whether they're top 10, 5, I don't know where they land, but they could easily steal a guy in the next couple days.

And that could be weird. Who's to say that it's not a top 15 program that they steal a guy from? So it's just, it's a lot different in the NFL, like you said. There are regulations, there are rules. The New York Giants can't steal Sean McVeigh. But LSU can steal Lane Kiffin. Honestly, it looked like kind of easily. Well, yeah, and Rick Petino noted this on social media.

He said it's a calendar issue. Was that actually Rick Petino? I almost didn't even believe. I thought it was like a fake account. I didn't realize it was actually Rick. Yeah, and he said it's a calendar issue. He goes, I wouldn't build my team to be a number one seed with a chance to win a national championship. And, you know, a day before the tournament, March Madness, bail.

He said, you couldn't do that. It's a calendar issue. and college football allows it for years and years. I was on my radio show and TV show, John. I'm sure at least once you heard me say this. It's an $8 billion sport with no CEO. It was boxing. Like, of course every boxer was out for itself.

And every promoter, Bob Aram and Don King ran boxing. The SEC Commissioner ran the sport. And then you have ESPN and Fox saying, guys, it's an $8 billion industry. We're going to make this more like pro football. We're going to have like an A.S. and NFC, the SEC and the Big Ten. So I don't, I don't, if you are a college football program and you hire Lane Kiffin

and you don't understand the reality of your calendar and understanding this can happen, then you're naive. And I can feel for an Ole Miss fan, but this is, this is a calendar issue. And I said last week, aggressive men, if Wall Street did not have a regulatory board. You would see if you didn't have regulations at companies, if we didn't have an IRS, what do you think it would be like for aggressive men in this country? They would be taking big swings and doing something, doing many things that felt skeeby and unethical. So until college football in the NCAA put up boundaries, I mean, we put up some boundaries in the portal.

We put up some boundaries in NIL. There's no boundaries on coaches leaving. I think what people have a problem with, you know, it's mainly the Ole Miss fans, not like LSU fans care at all, they're static, is that we have this team who, in theory, has a chance to win a national championship. I don't necessarily agree they don't play any defense. But then this guy kind of plays us, plays us would be strong, but as he says in this outgoing statement that the AD wouldn't let him coach, well, yeah, Lane, no school worth their salt that has any respect.

LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas. It's very understandable why they wouldn't let you coach. But then you steal Charlie Weiss's kid who's with Lane, the offensive mastermind. Well, this is an offensive juggernaut as a program, right, going into this playoffs. Well, I remove Lane and I remove Charlie Weiss. If I am not like, if I can remove a little emotion and take a deep breath, I'd go, we have no chance in the playoffs, especially if we get a decent matchup because they're going to get dropped in the playoffs. you are ruining our dream season.

I mean, in college, more than the pros, right, a bad program in the NFL, if they get the right quarterback, the right coach, they can immediately be good. Right. The Rams were a clown show. They get McVeigh. Look at them the last 10 years. Right. In college, you get the right coach.

You got to strike while the irons hot because that guy's probably going to leave. But now I think, you know, fans would say, well, what the hell is the difference? We're paying these players. We're giving you money for the coaches. We're doing everything LSU tried to do, and we're kicking them. their ass every year. We beat Georgia last year. Why do you need to go? And I do think that's a fair argument that we're going to learn. Is there a big difference? And I know you said about, I think, you know, Lane would probably agree with you. It's the defensive guys. Like, I can get the

offensive guys to come. But for every Walter Nolan that I got last year, it's going to be very hit or miss. Where if I'm at LSU, if I'm at Georgia, if I'm at Ohio State, I could get five or six of those guys. And then I think the other area that people have a hard time with is like Nick Sabin, you know, Nick, you fired Lane for causing problems inside your program. And it does feel very, and listen, I have a lot of respect for Jimmy Sexton, created this business for nothing and became what he became. It's not his fault that academia struggles with negotiating with these guys. And it's a one-sided fight.

But it clearly feels where in the NFL, there's a lot of pushback. If you want to negotiate with Howie or you want to negotiate with the 49, like, it's not easy. And with these schools, it just seems like one couple guys have all this change. juice and are just playing puppet master within the sport. And that gets back to what you said. There's no rules. There's no regulations. So Bob Aaron and Don King take over the business. They need a Dana White. Because UFC passed them, right? Because they got a Dana White. I think we're still a while away from college football kind of having that structure, though, right? I mean, it doesn't feel like it's tomorrow coming in. No. I mean, listen,

if you look at pre-Kiffin, Matt Luke, Ed Orgeron, Houston Nut, Hugh Freeze, Cheetah, like a, you know what, the bottom line, it was a losing irrelevant program. If they knew Kiffin was going to burn them, if they knew it going in that he was going to do this, they'd still take 55 and 19 relevance in the number one scoring offense in the country by a wide margin. They would have signed up for it today. So I don't have any, their last SEC titles, 1963. It's an irrelevant program. And Lane, I watch. I. watched four old miss games the last four this year, four last year. Maybe I'd watch the Egg Bowl every year for a half. Like, I'm sorry, you were in a relevant program. Hugh Freeze cheated to

make you sort of interesting. But Nick Saban said he stopped recruiting his last couple of years in Mississippi because Hugh Freeze was cheating so bad. Players were getting paid at the end near signing day and they were losing him. So, I mean, you would have signed up for 55 and 19 when you had the coaching opening. If you knew he was, if I said, number one offense, top five program, 55 and 19, he'll bail on you. You'd have signed up for it. You know, you used to have that statement, the thing that makes smart men dumb are women and money. And I think the hard part is for the program is that this is not really money, right?

Old Miss was paying him $10 million. They were willing to pay him $14. It's almost a, you know, a revelation. from Lane and his belief that your program simply isn't as good as LSU, right? And I think that hurts. And that's where you're getting it really, like you're in the playoffs, but big picture, you know, I'm the reason. And historically in college, basketball and football, do you lose the coach?

You're in major trouble. Like the guy that's replacing him, I remember when he was the officer or defensive coordinator in Alabama, it was not going well as defensive coordinator. And clearly they were in a desperate situation, but I think over the next couple of years relative to what they've been. If Ole Miss was a stock, you'd probably short them, and you would probably buy stock in LSU the next couple years, right? Yeah. All right, let's talk. As we do this, it's in the fourth quarter, but Buffalo leads going away against the Pittsburgh Steelers. And Aaron Rogers got hurt. He got smoked by Joey Bosa, bloody bridge of his nose,

left the game, came back. You know, it's funny because Sean McDermott and Mike Tomlin are both defensive coaches. And I could make a strong argument that their message has sort of worn thin, like three points in the first half for Buffalo, making a mistake down near the goal line. It's like, guys, you got a veteran staff, you got a veteran quarterback, you got a veteran left tackle. you can't be making these mistakes. But I do, I look at Pittsburgh right now, and they have no quarterback for the future. Aaron looks in cold weather, really old.

Aaron's letting go that ball, John, so quickly. I don't blame him. He doesn't want to get hit. He does never run game. I thought this was a bad fit. I said he should go to Minnesota or he should retire. I never thought, you know, in warm weather, early in the season. But Mike Tomlin's teams, I am going to playoff game.

I could be wrong, eight plus years. They're not a viable franchise. They get really bad at the end of seasons. I don't know. I mean, yeah, Buffalo just scored. It's going to be now 23 to 7. What do you do with McDermott and what do we do with Tomlin? Well, I think McDermott's still, you know, these next, whatever, five, six games,

then the playoffs are going to be huge for them. I mean, as of right now, it's going to be an uphill battle for them, just assuming that New England wins on Monday night to win the division. they were heavy favorites at the beginning of the year, not just to win their division. They had the best betting odds with the Ravens to win the Super Bowl. I mean, they have one of the best players in the league. You know, I'd say Josh's been a little up and down this year. Part of that, to me, is on the GM.

And I think when you look at these two franchises, you know, Brandon Bean for the bills, like Keon Coleman, it was inactive the last two games. He was their essentially their first round pick last year, pick 33, right? They traded out. He had a touchdown today. That helps. He did. He did.

But, I mean, you're in a position where you're still like teaching them life lessons a year and a half in. That's not ideal. I think the Steelers, I've been texting around the league. Obviously, Tomlin, I think it's fair to say, you're there 17 years. Back in the 60s, they would have said that's a long time, let alone modern day, the internet age. It's unprecedented. I don't think we're going to see that very often, ever again. But I think their GM and their front office, you know, it used to be with Kevin Colbert, the Steelers, and going back to the Bill Coward days, just always had one of the best rosters in the league, right? Defensively top to bottom. Offensively, they always had multiple pieces.

Totally. They always just had like super reliable people all over the place, right? And then Star Power. They don't even feel remotely close to that. I actually gained a lot of respect for Rogers today. He's going to be 42 in less than a month. He's out there with a cast on his left hand, which that's a hand that you use to brace yourself.

He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. He does not need to be doing this. So I give him a lot of respect for. It's not like he has a lot of equity with this franchise that he needs to try to earn their respect. So he's trying. He's giving them all they have. But Tomlin takes a lot of shit. I've been saying for a while, it's probably time for a breakup. If you're Mike Tomlin, you go to the Giants, you would be getting an outstanding ovation walking into that press conference. But the front office in the GM, when you look at the team, Cam Hayward's been there for a decade

and a half. That has nothing to do with this group. T.J. Watts's been there for 10 years, right? The talent on that roster and the philosophy of the moves, like, you're trading for D.K. McCaff? he's a number two guys and you're going to pay him $150 million. Like, what are you guys doing? I know. No position. I'm watching the Bears make some seventh round running back go for 130 yards with his eyes closed.

And you guys can't find a running back? Like you guys, the guy you drafted in the third round can't sniff the field. Your front office who is, I would say the Steelers for a long, long time, just they were the most reliable franchise just doing it right year in, year out for deck my entire life. I look now, I see like, God, something's off. there. And maybe the family's getting a lot older. You know, it's just, things change. They're so rich now. Maybe you lose touch a little bit, have the same chip on your shoulder. But to me, the talent on the, and I'd say, listen, it's not like Buffalo. We've talked about this is some greatly talented. They had injuries today, missing some players. But even when healthier,

I wouldn't consider them the 07 pass. No, I mean, the Lakers sold. It felt very mom and pop. and then they bring in the Dodgers group, and it already feels they're getting rid of bus family members. I think would the Roonies ever sell? They feel, I mean, that division now has the Brown family, mom and pop. The Roonies feel outdated little mom and pop. Baltimore's got excellent ownership and management throughout. Cleveland, a bit of a mess, although I like the coach. I like the GM.

I like the roster, actually. but it's just watching this today. You have two defensive coaches. You know, it's seven, three, or ten, three, and half, whatever it was. And it was like, God, there's just nothing creative. I mean, Buffalo, basically, if you look at their game plan, they just, it was pretty clear. They were just wanted to get into a slug fest, and they just kind of figured they would, over the course of time, score points. Get the 20 points.

You can't match us. That's what it felt like. It almost felt like what Ohio State did against Michigan. And like that first half, Ohio State was so conservative. And their take is, we got better players. We're going to win this game. It's just going to take three and a half hours to win the football game. So I, you know, I feel like I'm always beating up on the Steelers.

But small market Green Bay is so smart, so cutting edge. Offensive coaches do a very good job in the sport of solving problems in season. I've said this, John. A McVeigh, a Reed, a Sean Payton. I think those guys, Shanahan has done a great job this year. Solve problems, middle of the season. Takes a couple of weeks. I feel like defensive coaches need an off-season to solve problems.

Pete Carroll will need an off-season. Tomlin, McDermott. When things go sideways, they don't rebound quickly. I mean, you watch Denver struggle, struggle in their first half offense. Then they play the Chiefs, and they get on the board in the first half, and they kind of clean it up. I mean, Ben Johnson has an identity. they're a number one seed now, Chicago.

Like, I mean, the defense leads in takeaways, the offense leads in rushing. There are a number one seed. These offensive coaches come in. Ben Johnson has been tweaking this mother every two weeks. Like, you've seen improvement. Pittsburgh League, you know, I feel like they think like, okay, you play the season, then the season's over, and then you take the wrenches out and you fix it. You've got to fix it every week in pro football.

Now the coaching's too smart. Yeah, I think also the, organization, like the way they view football is the defense can carry us. And I still believe you need a good defense to win in college or the pros. But it's an offensive sport. I mean, didn't Saban say this a decade ago when he hired Lane Kiff. And I had to adapt because of the rules. So you can't, even the Texans, I mean, the Texans have what looks like to be an all-time great defense. I mean, their defense is fantastic. But if their offense plays like that, they're not going anywhere even if they make the playoffs. That's the one thing I will say about the bills is,

The AFC does look pretty wide open. I mean, there are a lot of random teams going to make it. That as long as you got that quarterback, I think we'd both agree. They would have a chance in every game. If the pass rushers are healthy and Josh is healthy, they would have a chance. Where the Steelers, I've been saying this for the month. I mean, clearly, they have been in a free fall for a month. I mean, ever since Flacco beat them on that Thursday night game, they have not been good.

Same thing last year. But this is even starting earlier this year. The attrition of the age. Listen, it's just. It's not Tomlin will probably assuming that, I mean, they'll get a divorce one of these days. It is an organizational thing. And you bring up the Packers, they have a much better front office. Gutikins, I got news for you.

I know Rogers butted heads with him, but he kind of was right on that transaction. And he's pretty good at his job. You know, like the power, I don't know if football is quite baseball, but your GM is pretty important. Because it's not obviously the quarterback, but it's a lot of auxiliary moves of, you know, backup defensive linemen. Who's your slot receiver? Who's your slot corner? You can make moves in season. You know, one thing, you know, Howie has done that I think a lot of Lions fans go, like, where are trades mid-season?

Like, you can be aggressive now in this modern day NFL. So I'd say the Steelers just kind of ran into age, attrition, and just a coach that, you know, it's just time. There's nothing wrong with that. Andy Reid was fired in Philadelphia. Ask him how that turned out. Today's show brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. Big news. Hard Rock Bet now live.

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Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with the name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down in my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Hey, I'm Jordan O'Donnell. You might know me as that last. guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite,

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Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise.

drama, the alliances, and the T everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, I want to talk about, because the biggest games were third.

Thursday and Friday in the NFL. I don't think Cleveland, San Francisco is a highlighter. We'll get to that. I want to talk about Dallas beating Kansas City. Chiefs now six and six. And it's very likely if you look at Jacksonville and Houston's record and you start looking at New England and Buffalo. It's like Kansas City's probably not making the playoffs. And I think Chargers is going to have eight wins after they beat the Raiders. So I think Kansas City's, listen, I said at the start of the year, I said Kansas City, the dynasty's over. They'll win a Super Bowl, but the dynasty's over. Once you're start paying quarterbacks 400 million bucks. You have to manipulate the cap. You have to let people go. They had to let Joe Tooney go. The O line the last several years, it feels like it's been patchwork, and then it gets into later in the season. They lose somebody to injury. It's a mess. Here's the thing about Dallas. I can't figure out why this is so hard for people to figure out. I said when they traded Micah, Jerry Jones is a dealmaker. What dealmakers need is flexibility.

and if they signed Micah, and we know this the previous year, they were waiting to, they had no flexibility. They couldn't get Derek Henry for $8 million at the trade deadline. They are a much better defense without Micah. Why? Because it allowed them to get Kenny Clark and Quinn and Williams run stoppers. When they had Micah, they were an atrocious run defense. The problem with that is you lose time of possession. Dak sits and watches the game from the sideline.

Well, now with DeMarvian overshone getting healthy, they still have electric athletic ability on the edge. Sam Williams played well. Quinn and Williams, Kenny Clark. Well, now they're still getting quarterback pressures. They're going to go get an edge. Yeah, Clowny. They're going to go get an edge with their first pick in the draft, which is a edge-rich draft. And simultaneously, Michael was good for Green Beck.

But this idea that you win the trade and we lose it. Dallas had no flexibility. You watch them play now, John. Their pressure's excellent. You can't run on them. They're healthy. They're athletic. It's like, guys, sometimes, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter what the company is.

You lose a high profile person and maybe they were high maintenance or maintenance. Or maybe they were expensive or they were temperamental. And they're great somewhere else. but it allows you to elevate other employees, to show off other employees, to manage other low-maintenance employees. Like, I liked Micah, but he was a lot. And edge rushers are easier to find than Quinn and Williams. It just seems so obvious to me that Micah Deal was good for Dallas, too.

You get it, right? Like, everybody gets this. I just think oftentimes in a trade, we want a loser in a winner, right? I think you look at the Luca trade. You know, we love when there's a loser and a winner in a trade. The Bears and the Panthers, the big trade they made. It looks like Bryant Poles won that thing, right? The Bears would like a redo.

Why can't we just have a winner and a winner? I'm watching Micah Parsons fly around on Thanksgiving Day. Obviously, he's been awesome for the Packers, and they do not regret doing that at all. The other thing that someone in the league texted me, do you know where Jerry also deserves credit is, I thought he was wrong for this. I'd be like, you know, I'd just keep rolling it with McCarthy. He said, you know what, Mike? I'm not giving you another contract. I'm going to take your number two, replace him with you and not skip a beat.

And now you look at McCarthy, who I've been saying, like, I think he'll get a job. Well, the backers replaced him with ease, haven't skipped a beat, right? I've not looked back. And now the Cowboys replaced McCarthy and haven't thought twice about it with Brian Schottenheimer. So, like, Jerry took a lot of shit. I was very outspoken. I know you were too. How could you not be when he hired Brian Schottenheimer?

looks like he's done a pretty good job. You know, excellent offensive play caller. His rapport with Dak, a big personality in George Pickens, handled him perfectly. Weird situations with Micah Parsons. I mean, he had nothing to do with that, gets thrown on him, handled that thing perfectly. And is there, how many teams are hotter than Dallas right now?

The Texans? I mean, Dallas looks, I mean, that has to be one of the better two-week stretches when you go Monday night, Sunday, and Thursday night of, like, Jerry's last 20 years. Yes. I mean, they absolutely destroy the Raiders. They historically come back on the Eagles, and then they essentially kind of end the chief's little mini-dye.

I don't think the chiefs are done big picture, like you say, but they're not making the playoffs this year because of Dallas. And really, I'll play them. Like, you couldn't stop them on offense. And I just think Jerry, I think he puts himself out there a lot. He's got a little Lane Kiffin quality. So anytime you do that, you know, most owners don't say a peep. Most owners do not interview or ever publicly say anything, maybe once a year, maybe at the owner's meetings.

Most GMs don't even talk during the season. Jerry's talking twice a week. He's doing the radio interview and he's talking postgame. And he was right. And here's the other thing you've got to say about Dallas. It's kind of been well run for a little while now. Like they've had good rosters. Now they have not done well in the playoffs.

But like the McCarthy era why they didn't do it well in the playoffs was not because the front office. Dak kind of shit the bed. He played bad. Baltimore's exquisitely run. They haven't been very good in the playoffs recently. They had the Flacco year, right? They had the Trent Dill for a year. Baltimore's lost a lot of big playoff games. They've lost it to New England or a Buffalo or a Kansas City. They're unbelievably well run. It's hard to win effing playoff games. Right. Dick was losing to, I mean, go look at when Dak and Dalles were losing a lot of playoff games. Well, you had the Seattle team and the San Francisco Harbaugh team and you have Aaron Rogers and his prime. And it's hard to win playoff games. Okay, I want to talk about this game that happened on Thanksgiving. Green Bay 31, Detroit, 21. Two big takeaways. One's an easy one. Again, Matt LaFleur, the Packers offense looked a little broken. Matt LaFleur, this is what offensive coaches do, fix shit in the middle of a season. And all of a sudden, Jordan Love, four touchdowns, no picks, 124 passer rating, go to Detroit and win.

Jordan Love 18 or 30. This is what I've said. This Green Bay offense was broken about three weeks ago, and he fixed it. The Pittsburgh has been broken for eight years. They can't fix it. So they got better offensive line play. But I think the bigger issue is something like Lane Kiffin leaves. They're going to hire somebody in the building.

Mistake. Jim Harbaugh leaves. They give it to somebody in the building. You watch Michigan. and they weren't even competitive. I mean, they just no ingenuity at all with that offense. So Ben Johnson is the most talked about OC in the league. For three years, he leaves, and Dan Campbell, loyal guy, you know, very relatable,

almost a working class feel to him. Like he's a guy's guy, hires a guy in the building. Last year, year before, unbelievable, third down team, fourth down team. They're now with that offensive line, those weapons, Jimere Gibbs, 17th best in the league on third down. That's coaching. That's not personnel. That's not golf. That's not Amarong St. Brown or Gibbs.

I'll go back to it. The Colin was right. Colin was wrong. I said, when you lose an icon, Harbaugh, you know, Lane Kiffin's offense that's number one in the country by a mile, you lose Ben Johnson. You don't go in the building. You go on a domestic, if McVeigh retired tomorrow for the Rams, you don't give it to a coordinator. If Shanahan left, you don't give it to a coordinator. I think Detroit, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

What say you? Well, I think Detroit's seasons on the line come Thursday against the Cowboys, and I don't know about you, but I like the Cowboys. Same, same. And I think once Detroit loses on Thursday, I mean, their defense is really falling apart. Offense isn't quite the same, but defensively, they clearly have missed on some pitch. their scheme. I don't know what's going on, but they are, they've been getting shredded now, the second half of last year with the injuries, and they kind of look the same thing all over again. They lose to Dallas, Colin, on Thursday, which I think most people with the brain are

going to pick the Cowboys. I think the NFC playoffs are pretty much set, and the Bears and the 49ers are in, you write, the Rams, Seattle are in, the Packers are in. Let's assume Tampa wins the division. They're in. And, you know, the Eagles would have to have to. have a full-on collapse, but the Eagles are probably in. That's your playoffs. So, you know, the Bears and the Niners right now, I mean, the Bears technically are the number one seat, which I don't know about you, but after Thursday night, like, what Mike Brable's doing is incredible. I got no problem every once in a while, like Brett Farr, of Barry Sanders, you share the MVP. I think those guys share the coach of the year. What those guys are doing where those two

franchises have been, Brable didn't take over the Bill Belichick 2018 team. I mean, they had been bad for a while. And the Bears were a joke. Listen, Frable's still in a rebuild. I mean, I would argue they're not finished yet. They need another seven draft picks. They needed another two acquisitions because Drake May is still on the rookie contract. New England's not even a complete team. I mean, don't just think about this.

For those who defend Sean McDermott, how long did it take? With Josh Allen, you're still never quite sure what you get weekend to weekend half to half with their offense. Mike Vrabbles turned it around. I'd say Buffalo's got at least as good or better personnel-wise. Yeah, Vrable's an unbelievable coach. I look at Detroit. They're still going to be fine because I think the GM, Brad Holmes, is so good. I do like Campbell.

But Campbell, Nick Sariani, similarly, are not known as great scheme guys. I think Campbell's better than Siriani. But when you miss on a coordinator, higher offensively. It's punitive. It's not for McVeigh, Shanahan, Peyton, Andy Reed. They move off those guys like Siriani and guys like Dan Campbell are much more coordinator-dependent. I think one thing Siriani has going for him is how he's aggression is really second to none. So let's just say that they go 11 and 6 and get bounced in the first round. He'll do 50 things to try to improve. where I think Brad Holmes, the shit he takes from his fan bases,

he can be a little conservative. It's like, where were your moves, right? And I think that's fair. And I think it's very easy for a GM to always look big picture. And I think Howie would say it's easier for me to think more short term now with a couple of rings on my fingers, right? I have more equity so I can be more aggressive. Look at the Rams.

Like, the Rams will always be in the mix. They got two picks, that Atlanta Falcons pick. If you tell me they flip pick 11 for some incredible for Max Crosby, You know, just whoever insert star player, get ready because they will not hesitate to do that. Right. But it's easier for Sean and less to do that because they got a lot of equity with the franchise. So I think there are a lot of different variables in football. You're very dependent on your GM as your coach and that working relationship.

It's why, like, listen, I'm not selling my chief stock big picture. Like, they'll be fine. Like, they need a little bit of a reset year. And guess what? Drafting 18th in every round will be a little easier for V-Gen-A. then 32nd. So they can go, maybe in the first round, all of a sudden, you're like, whoa, the Chiefs are now picking seven because they trade next year's first and go from

18 to 7 to get best player X, right? And they can do things like that. So the other thing that's on full display this year, and you really saw it on Thanksgiving with Ben Johnson, is obviously football, the power of a quarterback speaks for itself. But I still think that the coach is equally, if not more important. And what Ben Johnson is doing in Chicago is. That was remarkable that game. That felt like he's the Midwest, Kyle Shanahanan.

And now for our next segment, whiskey business. Yes, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Coward podcast. Chicago 24, Philadelphia 15. Right now, Chicago's number one in rushing, number one in the NFC North, number one in the NFC, number one in takeaways. That's not just the roster.

And he still has a quarterback who I think is a work in progress, but again, this goes back to Nick Cerell. Mariani is scheme dependent. Philadelphia has been spiraling. This entire season offensively has been an uneven mess. He can't fix it because he doesn't have the right O.C. Ben Johnson, we don't even think the quarterback's a great fit. We didn't think going into this season, this defense, it's a magnet for turnovers.

Nobody thought that. Their number one in the NFL takeaways. We didn't even like their secondary. Johnson got hurt. We were like, they're screwed. No, they, Nashon Wright, they find all these guys. Now they like lead the NFL. Their secondary is just pansy picking it off, one-handed catches. So, I mean, I think, I was, I wrote this down during the game that Ben Johnson's the best young head coaching hire since McVeigh. That's what it feels. Like, like Shanahan was a great hire, but Shanahan's been like

winning season, losing season, winning season, losing seasons. In Sanford, Francesco always had a heartbeat because it's got good ownership. The Rams were, with Jeff Fisher, unwatchable to double-digit wins. I still think Caleb's completing 58 and a half percent of his throws. I still think this has so much more room to grow offensively. See, I would say he's a combination of the two because Shanahan was much more heralded as an offensive coordinator, right with Atlanta, where McVeigh was coaching in Washington. They weren't winning as many games. He was like this shooting star within the league, but everyone when he hired him was 31.

But that first year, they were immediately awesome and in the playoffs. You're like, what? After Jared Goff honestly looked like he was going to be out of the league, his rookie year. If I would have told you that going into December that the Bears would be the NFC's top seed with their quarterback throwing for under 60% of completion percentage, not a soul would have believe you. Right? That's the thing. They are winning all these games. Their quarterback's pretty inaccurate. Now, the touchdown throw that he made was, like that was USC, Oklahoma, Heisman trophy. He still has some remarkable highlight plays, but he still misses a ton of just like

random outroutes overthrowing guys. And it gets back to the thing that Shanahan did. And McFay did this early too because he had Gurley. He would just run the ball. Unlimited runs. Just as two running back had 40 carries in that game. Where you watched the other night against the Panthers, Canales, Rico Dowdell, he had six carries. It's like, the guy had like 900 yards coming into the game. It's middle of October or middle of November. What are you doing?

Ben Jotson can't even relate. Shanahan can't relate to that. They will just keep giving young McVeigh until he got Stafford, will just hand it off, hand it off, hand it off. They're your quarterback's best friend, and it makes the game so much easier on Caleb. And then you can use Caleb's legs, but the running game, the scheme, I mean, Vic Fangio's making $5, $6 million a year.

I mean, they got Jordan Davis first round pick, Jalen Carter first round pick, all their linebackers. I mean, they got really good players up front, and they had no clue what was coming. It felt like, you know, sometimes when you watch like a Navy, you know, coaches always talk, hey, whenever you play one of those service academies, it's hard to practice for them because, you know,

the different misdirection and they're chop blocking you. The Eagles were just all, they didn't know where, it was like they were playing the wing tee. And you can tell early on, you're like, this is a pretty special game plan here from Ben John. He's, I've been blown away. And I always say, like, going from a coordinator job to a head coach, haven't seen it firsthand. When I was in Philly, Sean McDermott was our defensive coordinator. Andy Rhee was the head coach.

When someone got in trouble, Big Dom walked to Andy's office, not Sean McDermott's. So as a coordinator, you just, you're not dealing with so many other things in the building. Besides, I'm not even talking football. And clearly, he's able to handle the pressure. of the city. The divisions, he's now beating really good teams. Right? It's like, okay, he's beating the Giants.

Last couple weeks, like that Steeler game, even if they end up nine and eight, that was a real win. And obviously the Eagles on the road in Philadelphia, a short week with Philly just coming off that loss. I mean, it's just, I mean, they worked them. I mean, that was, they kicked their ass. That was honestly one of those situations where you went, am I kind of out on Philly? Because something's off.

It does feel a little bit, not quite as, but. bad, but remember a couple years ago when they free fell, something, you can't have a working situation with AJ and Jalen having it be that public, that palpable, even if like, well, on the field, we just put our head down, eventually that stuff carries over to other people and create some sort of rift, right? No, and the other thing is Greg Kosell always, he's truth serum. Greg Kossel watches film. He doesn't really have strong opinions based on anything other than film. And he always says this. The Philadelphia pass game is really very simple.

It's not hard to defend. They just have great athletes. And there's throws Jalen Hertz can't make because he can't see. So that's why this offense is so uneven. So when Barclay, Chaconne Barclay's not getting these run gaps, it becomes very Jalen Hertz dependent. Well, that's a limited offense. Seqwan Barclays' humming, now at second and three,

the offense is better. But you put Jalen Hertz into half-to-throw situations. it's a simple offense. He doesn't see some stuff. I mean, he's better than Tua because he's more athletic. He's tougher. But there's limitations. And I also think we go back to Nick Sariani.

When he got the job, I had two people. I just say, what do you think? And they're like, he's not ready to be a head coach. He needs to get great coordinators. What do you got, Shane Stuyken? And he didn't let Stuyken call plays. Remember that? You do.

They were awful. Then he gave it. up, then they were fine. Now he hires Brian Johnson. It's a disaster. Then he hires his new guy. Kevin, what's the last name? Petula. Kevin Petula. Kevin Petula, obviously, struggling with either relationships or play calling. There's nothing Nick can do. Nick's almost got an aggressive, defensive coordinator mentality. He's not remotely close to a scheme guy. So to me, they have problems. They solve in season. Most great offensive coaches can solve their shit in season. I don't think Siriani only solved it with Shane Steichen when he just handed over the play calling. So what are they

going to do? Do we really think this team, I mean, John, this has been a nine week, 11 week, 12 week issue. This isn't going away. The one thing they got going for them is I did this after the Bears game. They still got the Raiders, the commanders, and the commanders on the schedule. And even next week they play the Chargers on Monday night who just have a lot of injuries and just are a beatable, you know, 8 and 14. But to me, if you lose to the Chargers, they do feel fickle enough to lose Danny. You know, you could get beat to a random commander game. I mean, we saw it happen a couple years ago. So I would say next week, Monday Night Football in Los Angeles, which I would guess we'll have a lot of Eagles fans there, kind of must win, especially if the Cowboys.

because you go, all the cowboys don't have enough, you know, there's not enough space for them to catch up. Well, all of a sudden, you beat the Lions, and they're the hottest team in the league, the Eagles lose on Monday night, then they got a short week against the Raiders, and all of a sudden this pressure and it starts getting weird, and these guys, it's going to be hard for AJ. I mean, he's already not keeping his mouth shut, you know, during the week. He's like, what do I even care anymore? I'm not going to be on this team next year. And the thing in Philly, you know, they started, I knew going into that game,

I'm like, if this thing is like seven to six or something in the first half, that crowd is going to be on edge. Because they already come in with apprehension that we're not actually that good. Like, I know we're the defending champs, but we feel way off. And then when you start getting physically shoved around, because the one thing you'd say Philly has, they had that stretch when Fangio got a couple players back. It's like, I got one of the best defense of the league. And then you start getting worked on defense. You go, well, we're going to have problems.

If we're not holding you, you know, to 10, 13 points, we're going to. we're going to be in for it. And then all of a sudden, they're up 10-3, and you go, the Eagles team, I mean, if it wasn't, I mean, they fumble a tush-push. I don't know. They are, the story of the game obviously was Ben Johnson, but I do think that Kevin, but here's the problem.

So you're going to, this season, you go 11 and 6, you lose in the first round, you fire your offensive coordinator. You just bring another guy, and you have, you know, it's Jaylin's whatever, 10th offensive coordinator, or 10 years or whatever the staff will be. It's like, and you just hope you get a Kellyn Moore or Shane Seitz. But I don't know. Well, you're saving on Siriani's contract.

So, and the Jalen Hertz deal is very team friendly. So you'd probably go spend $3 million and you go, you outbid people for the best coordinator. When you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey, whether it's rye whiskey or single barrel bourbon. You're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend. in a bottle today. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about Defying the Odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar.

Like, you go through a training camp with that I said? You figure it. it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree.

At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of. connection. This mental health awareness month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier.

We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet.

Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope I'm a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. one ring is too scary.

Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. San Francisco 49ers 26, Cleveland 8,

the 49ers 9 and 4 heading into the latest buy in the Kyle Shanahan era, I think. It's a great. time for a buy. These late buys are perfect. I have said this. I think the coaching staff of the year is San Francisco. To be nine and four, that's a good division. Even going to Arizona has historically been tough for all the teams in that division. Always been tough. Even as wonky and weird and strangely owned and quarterbacked and coach. I know everybody wants to talk about Scheduer. You know, they had 253 yards of total offense.

That's about what the Niners had. You know, Christian McCaffrey, 20 carries, four catches. Brock Pretty was more than solid. You know, Cleveland butchered a punt. That helped a lot. But, you know, my take was San Francisco this year had been very bad after wins. And I know you can roll your eyes at Carolina, but they thumped them and Carolina beat the Rams today.

And Cleveland won last week. So you can say what you want. But going to Cleveland, winning bad weather, not built for Brock Purdy, I was really impressed. I feel like I have to reeval. I put the Niners for third. Now, Seattle won and the Rams are going to win the division. Do you think San Francisco's a playoff team? Oh, yeah.

I mean, I think the playoffs are set now. Like I said, I think all three teams in the West are clearly in. Rams, Seattle, the Niners. And I think pretty much if the Lions lose Thursday, it's the Bears and the Packers. And that's in some order, those are your three wild cards. to me the Niners, today was an organization, organizational win. I mean, the Browns are such a cluster, you know what. I mean, what an embarrassment of a franchise.

It really, and the 49ers are the complete opposite. Their front seven is like a UFL team. I mean, they showed the all the guys on Inj Reserve. I mean, Fred Warner and Nick Bosa may combine like $50 million. Fred's one of the best defensive players in the league. Oh, he looks like, but Bosa early this season looked fantastic before he. Torr's ACL. Their first round pick, they had, they were six and eleven. They had the 11th pick was the kid from Georgia towards ACL. He's six foot five, 280 pounds. I mean, so you were moving

through. They're playing with Cleland Farrell, who they let walk a couple years, who was on a practice squad, and he's flying around Sack and Shador. Meanwhile, you got Stefanski and Barry have this quarterback controversy with two guys they've drafted in the third and the fifth round, and the 49ers are just clowning them. Like you said, Brock Purdy has not been good in weather. Even the day, he's wearing something on his elbow that he heard a couple years ago against the Eagles, because in cold weather, it kind of stiffens up. I'm like, did he hurt his elbow? No, that's just a holdover from his previous injury.

It's like, Jesus. You know? But in Miles Garrett's coming off a game where he has 25 sacks against the Raiders, so you're like, this guy, Jim Schwartz, the stat was he was 8 and 1 against Kyle Shanahan as a defensive coordinator or head coach against Kyle Shanahan-Land-Let offense. It was my second favorite bet. I had San Francisco winning 24-20. The second favorite bet of the day was Cleveland plus five and a half, six points. I thought it was going to be a dog fight.

Yeah, I just think franchises, and this is what I respect about Ben Johnson is, you're either a tough coachier or not. And not every guy is Jim Harbaugh or Mike Frable, like an actual tough guy, Dan Campbell. It's about the way you practice. It's a knock on Lincoln Riley. It's like, how do you practice? And, you know, you can be an offensive guy and be a tough-minded guy by the way you practice. and the 49ers, I have been going to their practices for years. Like, it's just a tough old school franchise. And this was a year where, honestly, they should have been like last year. Mac Jones has to start seven, eight games, Pertiest turf toe.

Look at the Bengals. They lose Burrow for a large portion of the season, and their whole franchise just melts down. Like, part of this is it's, you're more than just one. This is a team game. Like, you see today, like, you know, it's not Chador. Miles Garrett, you're a team. You're kind of the special teams unit.

You're dependent on everybody. And I just think you just saw the 49ers or we talk about this a lot during the combine. You're like, you can just tell. These teams have no shot. And this gap now is, it's probably like 10 teams versus 20. And you got the Browns who spend all this money, who got a couple Ivy League, GMs and coaches. Just like, they're always like four or five wins.

It's like, I don't know, maybe it's the owner. the 49ers since they've gotten Kyle really beside the one year last year. Like they've been pretty consistent now. And this year how they're doing it. Now they benefit from an easier schedule. But man, I mean, they beat Seattle and they beat the Rams this year. It's crazy. It's, you know, this has been the year of coaching.

Mike Vrable, Ben Johnson, Shanahan and Robert Sala. You've seen, by the way, Stafford didn't practice before the season. This is the best Rams team, despite today's loss. McVeigh's done an unbelievable job. So Rams lost 28-31. Carolina beats him, 31-28. Basically, Rams had three turnovers, Carolina, and Nunn. Bryce Young, you know, he's 15 for 20.

Didn't make any mistakes. Stafford, whose number one target now appears to be Devante Adams over Puka, at least in the end zone, the regression. I thought the Rams lost today. I was texting Jason McEigh. entire. I'm like, you can't play 17, 18 weeks without just have it stepping in it. And it was just all those turnovers coming into today, I think, I think Stafford had 30 touchdowns and two picks. That's like me starting the year 18 and 1 on my blazing five picks. You're going to do

one in fours back to back. Like regression to the mean, I don't make, I don't take much from it. I think the Rams have it sewed up. And I think the Rams defense didn't play great. And I also think The Carolina team we saw today, and I watched almost every snap of this game. They're six and six now. That's the team I bet on getting a touchdown at San Francisco. But San Francisco and Sala handcuffed Bryce Young against a healthy defense today. Bryce Young moved the ball. They were three for three on fourth down.

I mean, Carolina is more than functional. Well, one thing they screwed up last week against the Niners is they did not run the ball. Today I'm looking right now. Hubbard and Dowdell had a company. behind 35 carries. And they ran for 160 yards. And Hubbard had a touchdown on a wheel route, which was essentially a run play. I mean, you got the ball behind the line of scrimmage. So clearly, like, I will say this about Dave Canales and the Panthers. They are a respectable franchise now. You know, their quarterback can be very hit or miss. Yeah. But, you know,

Stafford threw the pick six today. He had the fumble, which I'm pretty sure that drive led to another touchdown. So it's like, they just kind of unraveled. You can tell, I always give people a little grace of long travel. If you're a West Coast team playing that early morning kickoff, especially you looked up today. And even my wife was like on the main TV in the living room, the Bucks game was on. And she was trying to find the Niners game. She's like, well, she started laughing because in Tampa it was 82 degrees. And people were sweating.

Yet every other game that was outside was like freezing cold, 30 degrees. In Carolina, it was a torrential downpour and some wind. like the elements really you saw it in college football the last couple weeks you're starting to see it in the NFL Thanksgiving night like even in Baltimore it was 35 degrees I was telling my mom it's like I know it doesn't look really cold 35 degrees in the northeast with 20 mile an hour winds is frigid can't feel your fingers you can't feel your feet no different in that Philly game that was you know in the 30s with wind that's really really cold so you start getting these elements the Rams are human beings how could they take the Panthers that serious based off the last week, short week. They probably don't have the best week of practice. All of a sudden, you find yourself not playing a great game and you're losing on the road. And then like this is, if you win, you know, 12 and 5 or 13 and 4,

one or two of those losses are going to be like, I'll probably like that one back. The Patriots lost week one to the Raiders. Like, you're just going to have some weird outcomes. I wouldn't sell my stock on the Rams, but the one curve ball always for them. And I'm, listen, I've been saying Stafford MVP, he is capable every once a while of just having,

well, whoa, you know, hitting some guys in stride, throwing pick sixes. And if he plays like shit, I mean, they'll just lose. And he was, for his standard. I mean, that was a really, really bad, obviously an awful game. Well, he, I'm looking this up. And there are three losses for the Rams, they're vulnerable to the pass. In their three losses, opposing quarterbacks went eight touchdowns, no picks, 68% completion percentage in 117 passer rating.

That's Jalen Hertz, Mack Jones, and Bryce Young. Not exactly Brady Mahomes or Manning. So this is, the Rams do not have, they have Kobe Durant, who's a really, really interesting player, Emmanuel Forbes they got from Washington. I don't even know how they got him waiver wires, some hell if I know. And he's actually pretty good. They don't have a great secondary. Their safeties are good.

But I do think if you can block their front, you can pick on them a little bit. Here's an interesting thought. Think about this. Eight teams had plus 1,100 odds or better to win the Super Bowl. The number one seeds this year are the Patriots and the Bears. They won nine games combined last year. Coming into the year, the consensus was Mahomes, Burrough, Lamar, Josh with the top four quarterbacks. It looks like today we're not sure if Lamar, Burrow, and Mahomes make the playoffs. Just think about that. If I would have gone out and said, Patriots and Bears are going to win their debate. They're going to be the number one Cs. You'd be like, that's the craziest hot take I've ever heard in my life. Folks, that's the NFL. That's what it is.

By the way, Lamar, Burrell, Holmes, and Allen, you're paying $3,400 million for a quarterback. You have to have sacrifices on the rest of the roster. What if I would have told you when you wake up on Black Friday that, you know, late August, I would have said the Cowboys and the Chiefs will have the same number of wins when you wake up on Black Friday? there's not a soul that would have believed you. And, you know, college football is kind of, you know, there's definitely way more parity with the transfer portal in the NIL. The NFL had kind of become top heavy these last couple years, right?

It was really the chiefs trying to fend off the bills and the Ravens. You know, the NFC was the 49ers have kind of dominated. The Eagles have kind of dominated. It's been two or three teams. Now, I mean, you could make a case for six, seven teams in the NFC. I'm done saying the bears have no chance. They just have some going for them. their coach is really good.

Their defense creates the Packers on any given day can look incredible. The 49ers have good coaching. Seattle. Look at this, John. What does Chicago do? Run the football. You think in January when it's nine degrees and blowing sideways and you come in in the NFC and you're like, I'm Matt Stafford.

Really? Matt Stafford, nine degrees blowing sideways? Take Devonte Adams out of the game in Puka. It's a run game. even if the Packers end up getting them, you know, two of these next three weeks, and let's say the Bears are a wildcard team, who's to say that that translates on the road? They couldn't go to Seattle in a rainstorm and run it 45 times and just win a game 15 to 13. He's clearly comfortable playing like that, right?

And his runs, it's like, well, they just have one. No, they're running all sorts of plays and their quarterback can scramble. So, listen, Seattle, the wild card with them is, you know, after that Rams game, you just, I would feel much more confident if I had unequivocal, like, confidence in the quarterback. But he's just a little bit of a wild card to have a stinker. Well, they won 26-0-0 today, and Darnold didn't play well. You almost can't count the game because they were starting a rookie quarterback from Minnesota. But Sam Darnold today had one of those games where he was out of rhythm.

Passes were getting knocked down. They win 26-0. It was not pretty. It was very close through three quarters. And the only reason, I mean, that was a classic example where Brian Flores put the heat on Sam. and he got out of rhythm and looked bad. Well, because what does Minnesota have? They have an NFL playoff level defensive coordinator,

a playoff level defensive scheme. Like, that's, I have a lot of respect for Flores because, again, these are human beings. You know, if you're on the defensive unit and you start getting to mid, late November, and their quarterback situation is what it is, how you stay focused. Like, he's, those guys are still playing their ass off with the court,

the quarterback today threw one of the worst picks you'll ever see. And in fairness, he has no business playing. but it's like Minnesota is a great example of like they have incredible coaching in their quarterback play I don't watch much Titans football anymore but it can't be much it's got to be the worst in the league right for the record

go look at the mock drafts okay Minnesota's too good to get a top seven or eight pick Dante Moore's probably going to stay at Oregon where Phil Knight can write him a $4 million dollar check and he can keep getting snaps and he loves it and they'll win a bunch of games. Mendoza's going high. I don't know if anybody else is a top 12 talent.

I really don't. I don't. I think Ty Simpson at Alabama's a second rounder, maybe late first. I don't see it. That seems high. To me, he's closer third, fourth. Yeah. Yeah.

So I like Jaden Maiava, late second, early third, okay, the USC kid. So my takeaway on this draft. is you think I'm crazy, I would go get Mac Jones. You may not have, you won't have to give up a first round pick because you do have to pay him a little bit. But I mean, if you're Minnesota, you can't go through this again. You have two good players. Justin Jefferson. Jordan Addison. I mean, I'm sorry. You have a left tackle that's already had a major injury. How long are you going to be able to keep Brian Flores? If you're in Minnesota, I'm watching today. And I'm like, JJ McCarthy, forget the inefficiency. He can't stay healthy. Yeah. You have to go get somebody. I would go get Mac Jones. I really would. I think call Kyle Shanahan. You're going to have to give up probably a second round pick. But you can keep your first. But I don't know. I just look at what Minnesota is doing. And I know that Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVeigh, Sean Payton, those guys are not the Steelers. They're just not going to wait until July to figure out their quarterback situation. Yeah, listen, they had faith in a guy that, you know, I'm with you. I think everyone's talking about his poor metrics. that are comparable to Jamarcus Russell. His biggest issue right now is he missed all of last season where he couldn't have played if they wanted,

and now he's got three different injuries, right? And some of them, I mean, the longest ankle injury in humanity. And then, listen, concussion sometimes guys fly back on the plane. And clearly he's out. But, you know, it does feel a lot of people go conspiracy theory and be like, is he getting soft benched all the time, which is kind of believable because of how poorly he's playing. And you just can't function with a high-price team

with high expectations with poor quarterback play. And the development, it's easy to learn on the fly when my team sucks, and we have no expectations. Right, Jackson Dart, once it was clear the Giants weren't going anywhere, you can just figure it out. The Vikings won 14 games last year, and we're 60 minutes away from the number one overall seat. So even if they were going to take a step back, I think it's very fair to go, well, at minimum,

we should win nine or 10 games and be in the mix to get a wildcard spot. And they're not even competitive in these games anymore because they can't get first downs. So yeah, I think the power that the 49ers are going to have, they sign them to a two-year, $7 million contract. You've been in more negotiations than me, but I've always heard the most powerful words are no. And the one thing the 49ers can keep saying is, nope, we're good, we'll keep him, because his value to the Niners is pretty high. He saved, Mac Jones saved the Niners season. So it's like, okay, Minnesota, like to me, a second round wouldn't be worth it. Maybe second, a player, maybe a fourth. Like, I'm going to need a lot because his value to my franchise,

given how little money he makes and how I know how well he can play in my offense, he's worth more to me than he is to everyone else. And clearly he'd be worth a lot to you because you could function. So I think the 49ers have a ton of leverage with a backup quarterback who, like, we'll see if Purdy can just make the rest of the year. You know, even this year. He's wearing this brace on his arm. Like, he's not exactly built like Josh Allen.

So I think we got a long way to go. And if I'm the 49ers, it would take a lot for me to just send. him your way to be your starting quarterback and save you. So the J.J. McCarthy pick it's got a chance to be an all-timer because that's that whiff. Sometimes like, Pennix. I was high on Pennix. Clearly he wasn't as good as I thought. And then also the injuries. I had people texting me that like, listen, John, that never liked him. The problem was is our doctors were very uneasy with the amount of injuries he had in college. And then he hurts himself again, the same injury he had multiple times in college. Like he was off boards. Where Jay

AJ was just a polarizing prospect, right? When you play the scouting meetings at Alabama in their heyday, like Mack Jones, he's playing with four first round wide receivers. And really every team he's playing beside maybe one, it's such an advantage to Alabama. Michigan, even I saw Urban Meyer on Big Fox on the pregame show was like, listen, they went over each of the Michigan, Ohio State games the last four years. He said the one game that I can't really hold against Ohio State was the year. that they won the national championship, Michigan had the best team in the country.

No one would argue that, and they should have won that game. That's what, JJ won a game against Penn State, where they didn't throw it in the second half. We used to talk, you know, a lot about Jimmy Garoppel. Remember, they won a NFC championship game. He didn't even attemptable. That's unheard of. That's not the way people play football anymore. So, I don't know.

They took a swing and it looks like it blew up in their face really quick. Like, it blew up in their face fast. Yeah, and Minnesota's always been a, like the Kansas City Chiefs. a really solid, well-run team that's always either in the playoffs or on the precipice of getting into the playoffs. They've won with, you know, they've won with a lot of different quarterbacks and a lot of different styles, but I don't know. I think they would go big game hunting. I mean, I'll just say this. If I was an older quarterback, Aaron's too old now and Stafford's not going anywhere. Kirk Cousins feels washed. But if I was an older quarterback or a veteran quarterback, like I've

said it on this podcast and on my show. I'm Joe Burrow. Can you force your way out? I mean, honestly, I look at Joe Burrow sometimes and I'm like, oh, I feel so. That's why I always, I mean, Carson Palmer and Joe Burrow are two of the greatest quarterback prototypical talents in the last 30 years. One got to a Super Bowl. What if Carson Palmer ends up with Andy Reed? What if Joe Burrow ends up with a Harbaugh? Like, I feel so. bad, even though Joe Burrow looked good the other night, I think Minnesota's in a bind, and I don't know what you do. Mack Jones feels like the best answer in a dilemma that I'm not sure has an easy solution.

The problem for Joe is that owner's kind of proven to be pretty stubborn, and his answer is always no, asked Carson. Turns out Carson is, you know, the next Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVeigh, just dominating high school football in California at Santa Margarita. I can't imagine being a high school player being like, yeah, I know. than my coach. And it turns out I'm playing for Carson Palmer. I mean, those kids got pretty lucky. Turns out Carson Palmer. I mean, I don't know how. He's made a lot of money. But if he really wanted to dip his toe into doing this, he'd be a big time coach really quick in college football.

You know, the Trojans, if Lincoln were ever leave? I mean, I'd be all over that guy. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast.

We could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers

why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad,

but secretly, he became a, someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue.

Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you give you. It's your podcast.

Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian.

And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice

known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite,

the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Coutura podcast network available on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, Trojans won, 9 and 3. If they win a bowl game, they go 10 and 3 with the number one recruiting class. It doesn't feel right. But, you know, it's hard to argue.

I still feel four years in, I don't trust their defense or their special teams on the road in a big game. But they won. So, and they have an unbelievable recruiting class coming in. Okay. Well, Lane Kiffin is the new coach of LSU. It feels big. Ohio State looks like the best team in the country, played conservatively. still one going away.

And I'll say this. I said this on a brief podcast yesterday. I text two people on Julian San. And I said, footwork, release and accuracy. He looks at 20 years old. Julian San looks like a guidebook on how to set, throw, and deliver the ball. If he was available this year in the draft, knowing that he's 20 and he's not ready to play.

And you had, if he was available in the draft, and you're like Dallas, and you're like, we don't need somebody for two years. And Dallas has two number one picks. Go get into, you with your first pick? Rams, although they may need somebody quickly. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic here. I think Julian's saying, dude, his completion percentage was over 75.

It's snowing. It's on the road. It's the second half. after that early pick. The tight-ins for this year are really okay. The running back, Jackson's pretty good, but this is not, Ohio State I thought was better offensively last year. They're better defensively this year.

I could be crazy on this, but I think we're looking potentially. I text somebody that knows him well and has followed him from high school. They're like, he is Stafford. Keeps it simple, totally focused, good dude, teammates love him, literally came out of the womb, let it rip, ball comes out easily, seamlessly, accuracy, accurately, that kid blows me away. Yeah, I mean, I would say the experience watching that game were watching the two quarterbacks be on the polar opposite side. I mean, Bryce, there's no disputing his talent, like its physical gifts.

He's got a long way to go to play quarterback, you know, and you watch, you know, saying it does benefit. I mean, Jeremiah Smith, one of the best, you know, college players we've potentially ever seen at the position. state's pretty damn good. Their offensive just, they've been pretty dulled that offense now for a while. I give Patricia a lot of credit. I mean, this guy had been a lifelong NFL guy, specifically in New England, right? Left for a little bit in Detroit. But to go to college, and, you know, in the pros, think how many guys, you know, from

Hightower to McCordy, these guys, he had been around on their 30, 32, like they're old, that he just knows exactly what they can handle. And I get Ohio State's getting the cream of the crop. but defensively, he has pretty seamless transition. It's not as easy. You don't get as much time with the kids. Clearly, Patricia's, you know, he's a rocket scientist to begin with, so he's pretty sharp.

Coming from what he's used to in New England to be able to transition to college, I've been blown away by how good he's been. And I could be a skeptic of Ohio State, but I give Ryan Day a lot of credit for that hire. I don't think there was much carryover, but it's not like those guys knew each other, like it worked on similar staffs. It would have been easy for Matt, too,

to go with Bill to UNC. To go to Ohio State, get away from Bill, he's really kind of pretty big muscle flex by Matt Patricia this year of like, you know, I'm pretty good at this. For the record, they brought in Vrable to be a coach for a while, Chip Kelly and Matt Patricia. It tells you a little bit about Ohio State's reach and kind of the respect it has in college football where you can, a lot of these college programs would call an NFL coach. I'm not doing that nonsense. I mean, Chip Kelly left a head coaching job to go to Ohio State. He and Ryan Day are buddies forever. But it's Ohio State, I'll say this.

In past coverage, I'm not sure I've ever seen a secondary that good. There's no windows. Nobody's open. And this isn't your typical Michigan team the last 10 years. This team has real stars at wide receiver. Harbaugh's teams did not. They were tight end, running back, O-line. They didn't have great receiving, not deep receiving.

This Michigan team Marsh, they got real players. There's nobody open. Like, nobody open. I also thought on Friday night, you know, one thing a lot of these young guys have, you know, even Shador, I mean, this guy takes a lot of shit, he gets hit all the time. A lot of these young guys are pretty mentally tough. You know, and I do wonder if growing up in the social media age, they're just used to more noise. Arch could have melted this season.

It was getting pretty ugly. He was playing bad. I can imagine in the insular bubble in Austin. it was pretty negative around the program. And I just thought it was a pretty cool moment to seeing his dad, Cheramon, that place rocking him taking. Texan NM hadn't lost, right? That's a big game.

And he made some, I mean, that run he had for a touchdown. He threw that touchdown pass in the back of the end zone. They just kind of kicked their ass in the second half. I just thought that was a cool moment for, you know, these guys, even that's why I wouldn't bet against Bryce Underwood. These guys are kind of used to, the way they've grown up, If you're a big five star, the way people are talking about you. You know, it's not just the little newspaper article like kids that I grew up with in the 90s.

Like, these guys are used to a lot of noise. They're kind of unfaced because I think a lot of kids, my era would have melted like an ice cube. If I archmanning all the negativity surrounding me. And he's kind of just held his head high and kept swinging. So he earned my respect on Friday night. Yeah, I think, I think listening to my kids, my son, my daughter, and my stepkids is I think a lot of what's on the internet, it either melts you or you just think it's funny as hell. And I think Arch Manning's got really smart parents and he's a really good kid.

And I think he sees it as folly. Like, you know, there was one article about him. It was so bad. It was by the guy who created Deadspin. Called him the worst prospect of all time or whatever. Or the biggest bust of all time. It's like, dude, you spent too much time in New York. Do you follow college football recruiting?

if there's four five-star quarterbacks annually, two are whiffs every year. Like total whiffs. I could give you, I mean, in Southern California alone, USC's last 10, five-star signings, like half have just not played at all, not done anything or transferred or so like it was just such a bad article. And it's like, give me a, just don't write it. He's a freshman. He's a Manning.

There's a lot of pressure. By the way, we now, though, we now know that Archmanning opened up against arguably the best college defense in a decade. Well, look at Dante Moore two years ago at UCLA for Chip. I mean, his freshman year couldn't have gone much worse. He looked like this is not going to work out. Two years later, he's one of the best players in college football. So I'm guilty of this.

I think now because these guys are getting paid and there's just, I mean, arts are so much hype on them. Your expectations are pretty high. It's pretty hard. These are difficult spots. There are more people watching college football now than ever. There's a lot of money on the line. There's a lot going on.

These guys that are able to kind of battle through it. I mean, Dante Moore is a good example, kind of put his head down and went to be a backup. He's going to end up if he comes back to Oregon. I mean, there's probably a 50-50 shot. He's the number one pick in 2007. All right. New England, at home, Drake May, number one seed, Vrable coach of the year candidate, minus seven against the New York Giants.

Listen, I saw the Niners a week ago at home, feel big and flex. I think this is an opportunity. This is a standard. alone game for Mike Vrable and Drake May. They've done some one o'clock window stuff. I mean, for a number one C, John, they're not getting a lot of play nationally. They feel like a regional story. They're the Dunkin' Donuts of the NFL. They're huge in the New England area. This is a flex moment for them. I'm going to take New England to win and cover. I will say this about the Mike Kafka led Giants these last couple weeks. They have been very frisky against the Packers two weeks

ago. Last week, they easily could have beat the Lions. So there's just a lot of points. You know, even bad teams on these primetime games late in the season. It's kind of their Super Bowl. I'm going to take the Giants with the points. I just think these primetime games with bad teams who actually have a little momentum can just be pretty frisky. So I'm with you. I think the Patriots win the game, but that's a lot of points. Jackson Dart's supposed to play.

Yep. John Midlakov, former NFL Scout, three and out to his podcast. Nice work, buddy. See you. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it.

But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth,

and becoming your best self. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Healed with Dr. Jay on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.

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