The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - LeBron Is The “Soul” Of The Lakers, NBA Can’t Avoid Tanking, Does OKC Have A Weakness? Flagg Is The Next Tatum,

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight”! They start with their takeaways from March Madness, why elite defense makes all the difference in the later rounds of the tournament, and why Cooper Flagg projects to be the next iteration of Jayson Tatum (3:30). They break down why college basketball is a far better money making and brand building opportunity for young basketball players compared to playing in the G-League (8:00). They react to LeBron’s comments on Pat McAfee’s show comparing NBA eras and explain why it’s completely pointless because of how much the game has changed (14:00). They discuss why the Celtics effort has separated them from other top teams in the era of resting and load management, and why they should be favorites to win the title (23:15). They debate whether a dominant regular season will translate in the playoffs for the young OKC Thunder roster, and whether they have a weakness that could sink them in a series (29:00). They dissect the Lakers postseason chances and whether Austin Reeves improved play could power them to the finals (34:30). They explain why Jonathon Kuminga has become the odd man out of the Warriors rotation heading into the playoffs (40:00), and Colin expresses frustration with Luka Doncic’s lack of leadership and defensive effort when compared to LeBron (52:00).   Finally, they discuss whether there’s anything the NBA can do to avoid tanking when transformational talent is so easy to identify early and incentivizes teams to tank (58:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Visit fubotv.com/colin to get $50 off 2 months off Fubo Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the Alliance, Mrs.M&T, everybody's talking about.

To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land

while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Volume. Well, I've said it before. Fubo is one of my favorite ways to watch sports. College basketball, NBA. It doesn't matter what the sport is.

Fubo TV delivers. I watch it constantly on airplanes. If I'm in my car and I'm driving and I want to stay up to date in the game, FubotTV.com slash Colin, you will get $50 off for two months of Fubo TV. And the Masters is going to be on it. Major league baseball is going to be on it. It's just in my life, I can't always be in front of a TV. But I want to stay up to date on what's happening in sports.

FuboTV.com slash Colin, 50 bucks off two months. Fubo. Well, you're going to hear him more regularly now over the next seven weeks. Jason Timp, host of Hoops tonight as we get very close to the playoffs. The young teams, OKC and Houston, still playing their ass off and the old teams are resting and reducing minutes. So you get, you know, March is such a weird month for the NBA as you watch college basketball and playing a while this passion. I want to start with a little college basketball. So, you know, the minute Michigan State got down 10, it's over because they can't.

can't shoot threes. They're like 318th on field goals made, three-pointers made. Like, it's over. But all four teams are great defensive teams, Houston, Duke, Auburn, Florida. And my take is you have to be in college basketball. Even St. John's has no shooters. So the truth is in the game, like, when you watch Duke, you're like, oh, yeah, that's Cooper Flagg could play in the NBA right now at 18. Like, he's that good. Not LeBron good at 18, but he's really really good. Any big takeaway from basketball. I've never understood why college basketball fans want less talented teams in the final four. They all root for Cinderella. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be bummed out because Duke and Houston are playing. Like, what are we talking about here? Any thoughts from you? The problem is,

is that to your point, in order to go on a deep run in the tournament, you have to be great on defense. Yes. And the skill level is just so dramatically low compared to the NBA that when that high level defense is played, it's really hard to create shots. Honestly, it was one of the few reasons why I was actually a little optimistic about Arizona going into this tournament as I was like, Caleb Love is a grown up who can score and they're great defense. And if they pair those two together, they can make some noise. Cooper flag has been fun. You know, Colin, I was talking with Josh Goldman before the show today. And he was like, hey, let's talk a little Cooper flag. And so I was watching some film of him from the tournament. And you know, the guy he actually kind of reminds me of. And I mean this. sincerely as a compliment is Jason Tatum. He projects to be a big, strong forward at his position, who has a ton of attributes, none of which are like eye-popping. Like he's a good athlete, but he's not this earth-shattering athlete.

He's got a good first step, not a great first step. He projects to be a good shooter, not an elite shooter. He can do stuff on the ball, but he can also operate like he did against Arizona as a screen and roll threat for a while. he just is super versatile and can do all these different things and I think of him as that type of player with almost a little bit more upside just simply because I think that Cooper Flagg's motor runs hotter than a guy like Tatum who can kind of lack that from time to time but overall like I was watching him and it's just one of those like no brainer type of draft picks where it's like there's no like

giant red flag that would get you off of him I look at him as just a shoe in you know 15 to 20-year all-star type of pro. This is what I have said. I think he's Jason Tatum with a little nastiness to him. He likes to finish. He'll be a better finisher early in his career. Tatum sometimes, now not this year necessarily, but there are times in Tatum's career. He's let the game come to him, and Cooper's more aggressive.

Cooper's going to take the game to you. And he's, and even in college where even Michael Jordan in college, you know, you play within the system, you have the coach and the brand. And Cooper will take it over. Cooper on a break will be like, I'm going to take this. And, I mean, there's even the story about Jason Tatum's dad saying, yeah, I wish my son, you know, played with a little more edge. But I look at Cooper flag as a B plus at everything, A minus at everything. Nothing is wow.

Now, I do think Jason Tatum, there are some things now. He's getting close to a material. First of all, his durability, he's hurt recently, he's never hurt. He's got, I mean, the guy just plays a lot of minutes, a lot of games. games and he plays hard all the time. And I do think Jason Tatum has heard people criticize him about kind of an apathy at times in big moments. And I think he's course corrected. I think he's been more aggressive this year when I've watched him. So I think he's been, this is the best Jason Tatum I've seen. But it's exciting. I've said this before. I love the NBA. So obviously during the

football season, I don't talk it much. But by late January, I start watching. By mid-February, I'm watching every night. And my take is what we need is more great. players ready to play out of big, big college brands. I think the NBA thought they could do it themselves with the G League. And then they kind of realized, you know, college basketball is really popular, especially in March. And I've said this before. You go make $300,000 in the G League or get $3 million in marketing playing for

North Carolina, Arizona, or Duke. Take the marketing. And by the way, those guys have chefs, all of them, Gonzaga, chefs, swag, 20 pair of shoes. Like, it's a pretty good life in college. It may not be as good as the G League, but I would argue Duke's campus and what you get from the coaching down, the chefs, is just as good as the G League for one year. Then it's exponentially better because of all the marketing.

We don't know who Zion is without Duke. I have no idea. So I think college basketball fortifying the NBA helps. I mean, let's be honest. The reason, I mean, NFL, has these college legends. Baker Mayfield is a brand the minute he lands.

Like, it was pretty rare that Zion was a brand day one. NFL gives you about three of those a year, four of those a year. Quarterbacks are like, oh, yeah, I know all about Cam Ward and Shadour Sanders. They're brands right now. They'll sell tomorrow.

So I think I made a mistake. I overthought it. I took Arizona beating Duke. I think Duke's going to win it, though. Anybody you like? I would say Houston's looked really good I've been disconnected from college hoops relative to most people because I just dive headlong into the NBA

that said yeah I would say Duke or Houston I like the point you made about Tatum and his durability I saw that clip going around social media while I was traveling this weekend and I'm so glad you emphasize that because that to me is becoming such an underrated element in this era as everyone's trying to grind

through the regular season and all these teams are so good. You know, I, I look, I was listening to Pete and Darius from Laker film room while I was on my plane today and they were talking about last week's games. And they were talking about how in the future, as the Lakers are planning for what they're going to be doing, they need to bank on, you know, LeBron and Luca both missing 20 games. Yes. And when they said that, I was sitting there thinking, I was like, it's insane that like Luca is going to be 26 next year. And we, it feels, like a safe bet that he's going to miss somewhere between 15 and 20 games. Like, that's a, that's a fourth of the season. And, and it makes it so much harder night in and night out. I mean, look at

the injuries in the way the Lakers spiraled under the injuries to their front court over the last couple of weeks. And so, again, when you're looking at Tatum, I think Yokich is another great example of this. I think Shagild is Alexander's another example of this. The dudes where you can book them for 75 plus games, they just give you such a high floor as you go through the regular season. And I I think it is definitely an underrated trait. But I've enjoyed watching the college hoops, you know, in the casinos and stuff as I'm walking around Vegas this last weekend. The intensity is just another level.

You mentioned it as like a breeding ground for like big personalities in the NBA. I also just think of it as just a great place for a basketball player to develop. You know, one of the things we talk about the playoffs is like, oh, the refs make it more physical. It's not that. The players make it more physical. Everything's on the line, finally. For 82 games, they're just getting thrills.

it. And then you put the Larry O'Brien on the line and you have to win those games. They rotate. They're in help side defense. They're making all these efforts that are inconsistent in the regular season. You want to know why college basketball looks so ugly sometimes. They're incredibly well coached and they play every possession like it's the last possession they're ever going to play. So you see these loaded up helpside defenses, the rotations. There's everything that looks like an open three, the dude sprinting at him like it's his final close out he's ever going to throw in his life. And I just think that's a great spot for a basketball player to learn how to process information and make reads and see the floor. How are they sped up or can they slow down and thrive in that environment?

For the record, like, Cooper's just thriving. Like, that's a good Arizona defense that was throwing the kitchen sink at him and he was cooking them. And I just think I think it's a great, I think it's just a great part, a fundamental part of basketball player development. And that's why I would like to see that maintained over the years. Yeah, I mean, as a parent, my kids going to college. I said, guys, I don't, you're both great students. You got some scholarship money. I don't care if you're B students in college. Like high school's weirdly more important than college, you have to get into college. I said, once you get to college, go to a party. You know, have friends sleep in. I'm like, you know, it's so, I feel like like college for players for a year or two. It's like, God, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to connect with. with people you would have never met anywhere else in the world. You're going to have a couple international guys. You know, you're going to have a couple seniors.

Somebody on the coaching staff is going to yell at you. It's, you know, the G League, everybody's going in the same direction. There's guys on even like Kentucky's college team. They're not playing. They're going international. They're not playing in the pros. So I just, I love the idea for a couple years. I just think college was so valuable for me.

And I love to see high school players. Nothing against Jalen Green's journey. I love the idea of going to college for Cooper Flag. And it's just like, you know, you're part of something. Like your Duke basketball, you're part of something. You know, you go play for, you know, the El Segundo G League team. That's basically, that's an apartment complex. Everybody's trying to get out of it as fast as they can, right?

Whereas college is a little bit more like a house. Like, for a lot of players, you know, they get to Duke and they don't want to leave. They're not playing in the NBA, man. This is a home and a neighborhood in a community. So I just, I've always loved college basketball. It's a little bit of a turn style now, so it's harder to follow than the NBA. You can't, you know, except for a Duke or an Auburn, it's hard for me to name multiple players. I do want to talk about something, though, about, you know, that there was a comment I thought was interesting.

LeBron was on a podcast or a show, and he talked about, you know, Janus would have scored 250 points back in the 70s. And I laughed because I thought, no, because they'd foul him and he can't hit free throws. So it wouldn't work. But, you know, it's interesting because I grew up with a 70s basketball and I loved it. And I do think sometimes, you know, the players since in 1970, three, have grown half an inch. The NBA was big and athletic then. Now, nutrition's better, travels better. But it was, I didn't love LeBron saying that.

I was like, LeBron, Wilk and Jerry West played in the 70s. Dr. Jay played in the 70s. Bill Walton played in the 70s. I don't know why. It didn't bother me, but it was one of those I heard it. And I thought, no, Janus may have averaged. 40, but he can't shoot. Like, he can't shoot.

What did you make of that comment and your thoughts about generational comparisons? Well, for that exact reason, like you mentioned, the size, if it was, not just size back then. Spacing was poor back then. And in general, like, Janus would have been running into a lot of bodies. That said, I firmly believe Janus would average 40, 45. Yeah. If you played in that era, just simply because it would be like a man amongst boys in terms of the athletes that he'd be competing with. I just, a couple things. I don't see any point in comparing era to era in general. I mean, like, we talk about the 70s like it was not that long ago. That's 50 years ago. now. It's a half century ago. And in general, there's just been so many changes

schematically, there's been so many changes in player development and the skill. Like, you know what's always so funny to me when you go back and you watch basketball players in the 60s and 70s, the jump shots are all weird looking. And one of the reason why the jumpshots are all weird looking is they didn't get to go on YouTube or turn on the TV and watch their favorite players play when they were kids. They taught themselves at a shoot. Everyone today kind of shoots more or less the same type of jump shot. Some people look weird, but most people shoot the same sort of jump shop. Same with golf swings, by the way.

The unique golf swing is over. Exactly, because now it's been optimized. We've optimized it now. You reach your hand into the cookie jar. You start from the legs. No wasted motion. We don't want to hitch in the shot. And so it's one of those things where we've just perfected this sport in so many different ways.

And, you know, one of the things that I dislike about it, and it kind of goes back to what we talked about when we were talking about Stephen A. Smith a couple weeks ago. But when you, I don't believe in stupid. down to that level. You, by the way, are, you have a saying that you've used over the years that I've loved. You said, I can have an opinion and you can have an opinion on my opinion. I don't need to have an opinion on your opinion of my opinion, which, by the way, it's like a foundational thing that I lean on when I'm doing what I do too. And like, one of the big things that I look at there is

like, okay, LeBron, you're playing basketball. Okay, these old guys are trashing your era. What good does it do to then step in and then be disrespectful to their era. That doesn't serve a purpose, in my opinion. It kind of is, it's stooping to that level. It doesn't forward the conversation. And like from that same point, I feel like LeBron is just shouldn't be the guy sending that type of message that he's trying to send. That said, like, I think in general, LeBron's just sick and tired of getting criticized by

like the MJ clan, the throwback, like the old league was better type of clan. And I think he's just sick of it. And I think he's acting out. When it comes to college basketball and March mania, one thing's for sure. Nothing is for sure. Doesn't matter. Buzzer beaders, Cinderella's advancing upsets. It's all going to happen.

Bet the unexpected every upset every day with Draft King Sportsbook. Live betting, exclusive content, promos, parleyes, draft kings, the ultimate college basketball destination for March. If you're a first timer, here's something cool, something special just for you. Five bucks. New Draft Kings customers, bet five bucks. And you'll get 200 instantly in bonus bets. How about that?

Download the Draft King Sportsbook app. 90 seconds, use my name, the code Collins, C-O-L-I-N. New customers, 200 bucks and bonus bets, betting just five bucks. Only on Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 Gambler. In New York, call 8778-Hop-N-Y or text Hope & Y 467-367-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-777-7-7 or visit ccpg.org.

Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casinoin Resort in Kansas, 21-1-over, agent-eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Voiden Ontario. Customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey, Jones? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remember. Remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen, kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets,

meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my. my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. You know, it's, I had a commentary this weekend that I do essays on Sundays, most,

most Sundays. And we were talking about, you know, lead management, overload management. And I like SGA, Ant and Tatum. They play the regular games. One of the things that I think is really interesting about Tatum and the Celtics is that And I think this is, this is rare. So when teams win a championship, so OKC in Houston and Cleveland, I mean, these teams are, this is the old Derek Rose Bulls. Like you get the, when you get the combination of really good team playing hard, you know, we win 60 games.

I tell you, I watch Boston, and they'll have a guy missing every night. Drew Holliday's got a bad finger, poor Zingis. I'm telling you, though, Jason, that team plays their arse off. They play hard, and they coach hard. Like, Missoula is still barking. It's very rare. Once you get the ring, generally, you pull back. Everybody does rotational stuff.

Like, okay, it's your night off, your night off. Their depth, Peyton Pritchard, the other night I'm watching Hauser jack up threes. I'm like, Jesus, man, Horford can still play. I said it last year and I'll say it again. I just, I don't remember an NBA team. that deep. Like Denver a couple years ago with their title, when they had everybody, KCP, Brown, that team you're like, okay, they got eight dudes that I trust to hit a shot. And then quickly, you know, quickly all the aprons, they're moving off guys. I know everybody likes Cleveland and

OKC. I don't think anybody beats Boston because there is no switch they need to click. They're intense. I mean, I'll watch them play. They will jump out to huge leads against the in the first quarter. They will go to toe to. They'll go into a bad team and blow them out. It'll be 40, 24 early. Do you think they stumble? I mean, what is your take on them? So I think that

they're vulnerable in the same way that everybody in the top tier is vulnerable. To a certain extent, Cleveland has started to show some limitations over the course of the last couple of weeks, too. I don't think anybody's unbeatable, but I have never wavered from Boston as my favorite this year.

You've been really keyed in on this lately, and I think it's really smart, which is that there is a difference between a rotation of a bunch of young 20-year-olds navigating the NBA season versus a bunch of dudes in their late 20s and early 30s. It's a fundamental difference in just the level of urgency every single day. I think there's the obvious talent conundrum they present to teams, which is they just have way more good players than most teams. But I also think that it's time that we acknowledge Boston organizationally from the top down is the most well run because you've got willingness to spend a front office led by Brad Stevens that is obsessed with finding guys that can dribble shoot, pass, and defend.

It's like a mandatory for some for him to consider you as an investment for the franchise, a coaching staff that has built a drive-and-kick scheme and really a culture that is all about pursuing the great shot over the good shot. And then you've got the players that are all bought into it. And so it's from the top down. And one of the reasons, why I think that's so impressive. One of the ways that that manifested, I thought, was that ass kicking that they delivered the other night without Jason Tatum. You get a group of guys without Jason Tatum going on the road into Phoenix against a really good, a son's team that was playing good basketball, not a really good team. I watched that game. Yeah,

they were, they were like, I think four and one in the previous five. Yeah. The sons are the classic, like, we're going to try hard for a week or two, but then we realize we don't have enough horses, so we just let go of the rope. But in that game, you can see them just playing a style of basketball, which is like modern four out one in driving kick spacing basketball, which requires incrementally breaking down the defense. So Jalen Brown identifies where the advantage is, kicks it to a guy who's open. Once that guy's open, his job is not to shoot necessarily. His job is to drive the close out, to get past the guy going at him, draw another helper, and you incrementally break down the defense until you get these unbelievable wide open shots. And what was so funny about that game is it was

almost like, oh, Tatum's out. We're not going to be able to lean on individual greatness as much tonight. Let's play Celtics basketball. And that's the key. They have Celtics basketball separate from Jason Tatum. Jason Tatum fits into Celtics basketball and he makes it better. He's a force multiplier for Celtics basketball. But Celtics basketball is about an organizational approach, starting with Brad Stevens all the way down in the willingness to play for each other in a driving kick scheme to get great shots and the willingness to defend. And all of that is part of what makes the Celtics the Celtics. And that's what that's, you want to know why a team has sustained success, meaning the Celtics team that has been a threat in the Eastern Conference for my entire life as

an adult, like dating back to before the Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett partnership with Ray Allen. So like they have a culture that has been established. And it's, it's the only way to have sustained success in the NBA. I think it's super, super impressive. Yeah. You know, it's interesting the other day I was saying about OKC. I'm like, I know they're going to win in some series. I know they're really good. I'm not doubting that brilliant GM. I don't think SGA will quite get that whistle in the postseason, but he'll get a whistle. If Chet Holmgren's healthy, they've got some offensive options. I do worry about their young players in big road games. You know, everything changes. No sport in our country changes more from regular season. postseason. I mean, I'm watching here today, you've got to fight in the NBA, Minnesota's coaches, and you're getting feisty now and playoff seating, and it's like, it changes. The game, it's outside of the COVID year, men winning the playoffs, young men can do really well in the regular season. But the one thing about Oklahoma City, Tom Tolbert texted me when I

was talking about him. He goes, they lead the NBA in assists, or they lead the NBA in creating turnovers, but have the fewest turnovers. They just are really, really efficient. They don't turn it over and they force turnovers. Is there, like, I don't think Golden State could beat O. Casey. I think Golden State would

beat Houston. I don't, Houston shootings better today than three months ago. I still don't trust them in a big playoff spot. Oklahoma City to me is, they're like Cleveland the last couple years. They're going to win playoffs series. They're just too good. They've got too many good players, too good of a coach.

go deep dive on Oklahoma City and because I look at them and I think they have two or three things that really matter. They're well-coached, a dominant score. So they know laden games in a playoff game, here's where the ball goes. That is so important. The great teams all have that. Denver had it with Yokic. And generally like the Spurs, you'll have a second guy in Tony Parker if Duncan gets doubled.

It's great to have two. And if Hongren's healthy, I trust him at a big. big spot hitting a shot. He's a great player. So they have an identifiable star and a co-star. They're well-coached. They play real defense. They're young, but they're not inexperienced. These guys are played in big colleges, big moments. I think they're a Western Conference Finals team.

I don't, I mean, I would take the Lakers over them, and I don't feel like I'm being a homer. I would just take LeBron and Luca and the possessions and a half and a game. what do you think their journey looks like in the postseason? So their defense I'm 100% sold on will perform really well. The only team that I'm worried about them defensively against is the Lakers because LeBron and Luca attacking their smaller perimeter players. Oklahoma City's defense is nearly perfectly constructed. They're incredibly fast on the perimeter.

And Mark Dagenal has built their scheme towards forward aggression and passing lanes to try to force turnovers. it's optimized towards the type of personnel they have. They also have rim protection in Chet Holmgren, which is a very important part of success in the playoffs. And then they have a couple of different types of defenders that are especially valuable. So for instance, Lou Dort is one of the very best guys in the league

that you can throw against a big star forward. And like there's just so many of them in the Western Conference, whether it's Luca and LeBron or it's literally Kwai Leonard or it's Kevin Durant, or whoever it is your plane. there's all these star forwards he's a great option. Isaiah Hartenstein has kind of come to the surface as like a guy they use for the bigger power players and he's had a lot of success. By the way, the Knicks have missed him defensively.

No question. Yeah, his ability to defend in a bunch of different types of coverages, but specifically to handle the big, strong, bully ball types of players has been a huge asset to that Thunder defense. The only weakness I see in the Thunder defense is size as an aggregate thing, particularly on the perimeter, and it manifests in bad defensive rebounding, which has been a consistent thing they've struggled with over the years. And then that's where I can see some vulnerability where it's like,

okay, you put Lou Doord on Luca, great, who's guarding LeBron? There's just nobody else on the roster that can make LeBron feel really all that uncomfortable. So I think that's what we're saying. The offensive end is where I see some cracks in the armor in the sense that they thrive in transition off the strength of their defense. But what happens if there's a team that takes really good care of the basketball and controls pace and keeps OKC trapped in the half court. And it's a big high leverage playoff series where you need J. Dub and Chet and Dort and these guys to be effective offensively.

And again, I want to be clear, I'm not trying to nitpick here because we are, I should be clear, we are nitpicking here because this is the one seat in the Western Conference. As I agree with you, I would be stunned if they didn't make it to the conference finals. But in the conference finals context, if they faced a Denver or a Lakers, I think it's at least worth mentioning that those teams would be dramatically more experienced and dramatically bigger on the perimeter.

One last thing I'll say about it, they do rely heavily on Shea Gilders-Alexander pull-up shooting when things go south for them offensively. In those situations, I like a team of a bunch of 6-8-6-9 guys that have long arms to contest.

And that's something where I could see that being a value. So I think they just, deserve to be the favorite. But yeah, I'm with you to where, like, if I saw the Lakers and the Thunder about to play in a Western Conference Finals, it'd be really hard for me to not pick a leg. Yeah, it's interesting because the Lakers are the rare team that doesn't have a dominant center, but they're actually big and long. Rui, Jackson Hayes, everybody's big and long.

Even Austin Reeves is, and they're also very comfortable offensively with contact. Austin, LeBron, Luca, like Rui. They like contact. They're a team that you could see in playoff games getting to the line a lot. You know what I found interesting, and I've always liked Austin Reeves. My argument is you can't win a championship if he's your two. I'm not sure you can if he's a three. You're absolutely an excellent team if he's a four.

So he's a three on this team. But it was interesting. When Luca came, I thought, oh boy, is he going to get as many touches? It's weird. The Luca, because LeBron's a great passer. Luca is very good at getting the ball ahead. Sometimes I think he does it. So this is my thing with Luca.

Sometimes I think he's one of the great, he and Yokic, they're great down the court passers. They are great quarterbacks. Sometimes I'm like, Luca just doesn't want to defend these. You guys, I'm going to get the ball up the floor. It's too far for me to lag. Just go ahead, take the play. And that's my, you know, and that's kind of my Luca criticism,

is that he's a defense is more of a hobby than it is, you know, a vocation. But Austin Reeves, this has been the most impressive he's been to me because I honestly think with Anthony Davis sometimes there was a sense. And I could be wrong in this, Jason, but there was a sense sometimes, slow it down. We got a big, let's use him. This is an opportunity for LeBron in this half court set. Let's get it to Anthony Davis. And with Luke and LeBron, the tempo feels like really plays into Austin's gang because Austin's a good pastor.

He likes contact. He likes the ball. He can play off ball. He moves. And I feel strangely that I thought Luca would be a net negative. I feel like he makes Austin better. It's almost like there are times Luca, especially after he said a couple baskets, not that he takes the total possession off, but he likes, he conserves energy.

I see that with LeBron and Luca sometimes. Hey, kid, this is your, this is your possession. But I feel like this is the best Austin. I'm not sure if the efficiency ratings say it, but I feel like this is the most free he's played. No, he's been excellent. He's averaging in his last 10 games over 27 points per game on over 67% true shooting, which is insane.

That's just field goal percentage weighted for threes and free. Some of that is mental. Like he feels like it's his possession, right? Oh, absolutely. There's a certain amount of LeBron's injury having been good for the Lakers to help those guys get in a rhythm. Austin had been dealing with a calf injury, if I remember correctly, that he had just come back from. And then Luca obviously had missed a good chunk of the season. And so both of those guys were a little out of rhythm in the Celtics game in particular. Like Austin and

Luca were both bad in the Celtics game up until like Luca put up a big box score, but most of that was later in the game. So like those two, when LeBron was out, had an opportunity to really just get tons of touches and get their rhythm figured out. And to LeBron's credit, when he's come back, he hasn't really stepped on their toes. And this is, you know, we've talked a lot about Kevin Durant being a plug-in-play superstar. And I want to be clear, I still think he's one of the very best, maybe the best plug-in play star ever. But LeBron, I don't think it's enough credit for this in the sense that, like, Luca and Austin come with their fair share of shortcomings.

Like, Austin's not a great athlete. Luca is a bad defensive player most of the time. LeBron is the guy that they can be like, oh, we need you to run, like run the offense in this stretch, he can do that. Hey, Austin's cooking. A great example of this was the Pacers game when LeBron hit the game winner. In the second quarter, LeBron came out and Austin was cooking. Austin was just frying everybody on the Pacers. And so instead of co-opting the offense, LeBron just set screens for him at the top of the key and played off of Austin. And at the same time, like up before his injury, he was playing some of the best defense he had played in this late phase

of his career. He's basically taking all these elements of his game and picking and choosing how to plug them into what the team needs in that particular game. Austin gets hurt in the second half of the Pacers game isn't out there in that fourth quarter stretch. LeBron needs to be a scorer again. Suddenly he goes out and scores and he gets over 10 points after he had three through the first three quarters. Like that's part of LeBron's versatility and how it fits into this picture. The thing that I think is important to remember too, and this is one of the most common misconceptions about how we talk about star trades.

We go, well, there's only one ball. And the reality is that basketball as a team's, against elite defense is about incrementally breaking down defenses like we were talking about with Boston. Austin Reeves, when he catches the ball on the perimeter with a defender closing out at him and he looks to score, gets over 1.35 points per attempt. That's sky high. Meaning, when Austin's man helps on Luca in LeBron action, Austin is scoring almost every time in those situations. The beauty of what makes the Lakers so difficult to guard is that you can't really have enough resources to account for all of them. And inevitably, one of them is going to get an advantage.

And Austin just does such an amazing job attacking with those advantages. I think that there's no rhythm problem with those three guys. Any issues that we have with the Lakers, I think should be centered around the defensive end of the floor, rim protection, health, things along those lines. I am zero percent concerned about LeBron, Luca, and Austin figuring out how to work together offensively. The play in tournament, I don't know if it's an imperative, but I think Golden State's better sure of not playing it just because you know, you want the fewest minutes. But I'm going to throw this at you.

One of the things I've talked about, and I've text a few guys in the NBA about this, and I think Chris Finch has talked about this and other players, that European players, because it's all academy, come into the NBA more skilled. And a lot of times more mature. They've played against older players. The spotlight in their country has been on them. And they come in, like, you know, John Morant and Zion just weren't mature enough. They were good enough.

They were talented enough. They weren't quite mature enough and ready. You don't see that with international players. I mean, sometimes they're boring. They just come in and it's basketball sleep, basketball sleep. And, you know, it's interesting. This is not a maturity question with Jonathan Cominga. But I feel like if Jonathan Kaminga would have come to us via Europe, he would have been more skilled early.

Every time I watch Jonathan Kaminga, and you may have said this, I think you may have said this, and I'm digesting, consuming a lot of NBA comment, you know, content, is that when I watch the Warriors, I'm often left thinking, okay, I like Kaminga's length and acceleration. I like, I like his ability. What is he great at? And I think European players come to the league and you can see very quickly, oh, they're really good at that. And they're 19 to 20. Cooper Flagg is the rare college player where you're like, man, he's close to being graded a couple of things. He's not there yet.

I mean, start of the year, he was 17 at Duke. And I watch coming and I'm like, I wouldn't trust coming in a playoff series if I needed him. I just wouldn't. And I think he to me is the classic. domestic player issue, which is, we all know he's long, athletic, he works hard, he's gotten better. So I know it's not a work ethic thing, Jason. He gets, he gets incrementally better every year. What is he as a player? Can I trust him in a big series against O KC? And if I can, trust him to do what? I don't trust him. I don't think the Warriors trust him. I think he's going to get,

I think he's going to get some DMPs when we get into the postseason. I think that's on the table. I don't think it'll be like a game one thing. I think they'll throw him out there and see how he does. Because he has enough of an athletic upside to where, like, I mean, you could throw him out there in game one in a late first quarter stretch and he could get eight points in three minutes. You know, like he's got that sort of upside. So I think I think Steve Kerr will try him, but I think there's a chance that you see like a game four series two to one. Golden State needs one that you get a DNP from Kamika. I mean, Jason, it's year four.

You can't have that. On one level, I feel bad for him because. Two weeks before the trade deadline, it looked like the Warriors might not do anything. And it was like, here's your chance, comminga. Like, we're about to go the other way and like move on to the next era. You're going to get the keys. You're going to get all this opportunity. Nope.

They make the Jimmy trade and to make matters worse while Jonathan Kaminga's out. They win a bunch of games. So now it's like we are dead serious championship contending. Steph's now saying impressors like we got these, these two years. This year and next year, last chance to make all this happen. And suddenly it goes from, it was the perfect. situation for Kaminga to learn how to play to this is now the worst possible situation. Because part of the Jimmy Butler trade was clearing out the rotation. The Warriors had like

15 dudes they could play. Now they have 10 or 11. And so as a result of that, like all these crystallized roles appeared like Gary Payton and Brandon Pajamsky is that two next to staff or Moses Moody as the guy who's taken on the Wiggins role of guarding the other team's best player spotting up in the corner. Kaminga has immediately, when he came back, had a zero percent chance of taking Moody's starting spot.

Moody was crushing in that role. They weren't going to move it. So now it becomes you've got to be a bench player in this context on this team. And to your point about his traits, he does have an elite trait, which is if he gets a runway, he is a truly transcendently great athlete at the rim.

There is a certain amount of big picture potential for him as like an ISO post player because some guys can't keep him in front. He's good at getting to the foul line. There are a couple things that he does well that project for him when he's like 27, 28, 30, whatever year old to be a decent player. But in this team, on this Warriors team, alongside Steph, Draymond and Jimmy, you have to be elite at one of two things to be on the floor with them.

Shooting the basketball or playing read and react, like mental processing of the game. Yeah. And he's terrible at both. And that's a death sentence for him in this particular environment. So he basically gets to be like every other ninth or tenth, in a playoff rotation, which is we're going to toss you out there early in the series and see if you've got a couple matchups you can capitalize on. But if not, we're punting on you.

And it's going to be, for instance, like, I think Steve Kerr would trust a Guy Santos as a forward who will knock down open shots, make reads in the offense, play defense and rebound. I think he trusts him more in a big spot than he does comminga. Yeah. With international players, you sense very early what they're very good at. They usually come in. They're very good shooters, ball handlers, and passers. You know, defensively, it's real hit and miss with international players. Frankly, it's hit and miss with everybody defensively. Some guys just are great at.

Yeah. Young players don't play defense. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but I watch coming and I think he, he is a part of the AAU domestic issue, which is, yeah, he's long, twitchy, athletic. You give him a little space driving to the rim. It's a poster. Just get out of the way.

But that team has so many defined players. I mean, I'll give Pods credit when he's. he came in. I knew immediately what he did. He'd been in college and up. I knew immediately what he was. I'm sitting here year four, I think it is with Kamingen. I'm like, you don't have a stock move. I don't really know what you are. And I think you documented it well, like the two things they demand. You know, DeAngelo Russell's another guy in that system. Like he just didn't read and react well. It was like, yeah, too squarely. This isn't going to work at all. So that system, I think, you know, and you see this a lot of times in the NFL where there are a

certain systems, they ask a lot of their players. Like, if you can't adapt quickly, they're not real patient. New England was that way. Like, they gave you about a year in the system. By year two, they're not playing around. If you can't figure out some of the offensive stuff with Tom, they just, Tom wouldn't throw you the ball. And it was over.

Year two, trade deadline, it was over. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer-beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action.

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And now for our next segment, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast.

If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. This part of the season, I think the Lakers have, what is it, eight games left, eight or nine games left in the regular season. LeBron obviously has come back off the growing tweak. There feels like it's, he's just kind of waiting for the playoffs. I get it. There was the honeymoon period with Luca.

I kind of look at one of the things that disappointed me with Luca, not that I'm a critic of it, because I think Dallas, though, is going to be really good next year when everybody's healthy. I really like their center rotation. I just think they have. Now, they need another shot initiator, another shot creator, another shot creator beyond Kyrie. It kind of feels like they're a little light there. But when LeBron left,

JJ Redick and a couple of different occasions said, yeah, we just didn't communicate at all. And I was like, you never hear that when LeBron plays. Like, you never, ever hear that. And I, and as much as I like Luca, I understand scoring is the key to the game. But if we sort of, because his game, he was so brilliant early, and he is so great at the most aesthetically pleasing part of basketball.

He's not in great shape. He doesn't defend. J.J. Reddick has made more than one comment on lack of communication. The team got blown out several times when LeBron was out and Luca and Austin were playing. There are parts of me that think we've been. become so fascinated by what he can do. But here's 40-year-old LeBron, and he still is the soul of the team. And first of all, it speaks to what LeBron's legacy. It's insane what he's doing. And I'm not being a critic of Luca. But I said when he first got in here, he's a much better Carmelo Anthony. And I think he's a better

passer than Carmelo. Do you look at him with rose-colored glasses, or do you now, now, that you're seeing every minute of his game, do you see little holes that frustrate you? So, you know, I think rooting for a player as someone who roots for the Lakers is like the best way to truly learn about a player. And it's been funny because there have been certain things that have been reinforced for me about Luca after watching him.

And then there are certain things that I've changed my perspective on in the sense that like I used to be kind of similar to you where I kind of viewed his heliocentric, try to do everything kind of style offensively as something that had some drawbacks. I now view that entirely differently. Luca's just an incredible offensive player, like just a remarkable offensive player. And his ability to consistently compromise the defense and generate these wide open catch and shoot situations that guys can either drive or shoot out of is truly remarkable.

And it's like a superpower. And it's like unlike anything I've watched. from a perimeter player in my time covering the league. Like his ability to pressure the rim from the perimeter relentlessly, regardless of the type of defender that's on him, regardless of the type of scheme is a superpower. I think you're absolutely right that LeBron is the soul of the team. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that Luca doesn't really have

a massive leadership type of personality, which is fine. He doesn't. Yeah, he just doesn't. LeBron can fill that role. To me, LeBron is that guy. And I thought the biggest way you saw that it was on defense. Like when LeBron went to, the defense cratered, just completely cratered. And by the way, a good chunk of that initial

struggle they had when LeBron came back was for that reason. LeBron came back and you could tell LeBron was not quite getting the motor running. You know what I mean? And there's a certain amount of that where I think LeBron's like, I just tweaked my groin. These guys need me to be Draymond in the playoffs. So it's most important for me to get from here to April 18th in one piece. And I think that's the way LeBron's looking at it. But there's no doubt that LeBron is like the personality leader of the team, but Luke is the firepower. It's like watching the Lakers over the last few years, there was just this lack of

consistent, like, when you watch one of the best basketball players in the world really inflict himself on a game, it's unlike anything you see in sports. When you watch Yokic take over a game, when you watch Prime LeBron take over a game, Luca take over a game. They can, one player on a court of 10 can strangle the game and change it completely. And like, I've seen Luca do that so many times since he's come to the L.A.

that like I've grown to appreciate that Lucas style may look different, but it's powerful on the, on offense. On defense, he was embarrassingly bad in the Celtic series. He's been good at times, a lot of times with the Lakers, but the Pacers game, for instance, like just wasn't sliding his feet on the ball and just gave up drive, drive, drive to Andrew N. M. Hard and Tyrus Alburn, it cost him a game. towards down the stretch. My thing with Luca is to me,

that defense piece is a prerequisite to him getting to where he wants to go. Like, I don't think he'll ever accomplish what he wants to accomplish until he ties that piece together. There's a certain level of commitment on that end that he needs.

But I, having rooted for him over the last couple of months, like, I'm a truther when it comes to him on the offensive end of the floor. Like, he just is an indomitable force that generates great shots every single time down the floor.

When they beat Indie, there was a stretch down the end of the game where Indy was trying so hard to get a stop and they literally couldn't stop the Lakers from getting a completely uncontested three for a good shooter every single time down the floor. And I was like, this is remarkable. This is clutch time.

This is they're trying on defense. They're game planning on defense and they literally can't stop the Lakers from getting a butt-naked wide open three. And like that to me is just a superpower that he has, not many players in the league in men. You know, I want to wrap it with this because I thought it was a really interesting topic. I had Rachel Nichols on. And I think Adam Silver is a good commissioner. I thought when I had him on,

I thought he overreacted a little to Kevin Durant to the Warriors. And my take is, well, Otani came to the Dodgers. It's been great for Otani, great for the Dodgers, great for Fox, great for baseball. People like trades, people like stars and big brands, Harbaugh to Michigan. There was no downside. Yeah. Yeah. Michigan. was going to throttle people and you'd have more blowouts in the Big Ten. So what. And so they overreacted and they, you know, they've now created this environment where, you know, aprons, it's hard.

It's like you can't, you'll never duplicate unless you hit on every draft pick for four years. You'll never duplicate the Celtics roster. Like it's just you can't, you can't have eight good players. It doesn't work that way. And my take is people like trades. They don't mind dynasties. And Kevin Durant was bound to not get along with Draymond Green. so it wasn't going to be an eight-year run.

It was three years. They wore each other out. It was Shaq and Kobe. It was bound not to work forever. But I've talked about this before, is that there are certain unsolvable things. You can go to a therapist. I can go to a therapist. There's a basic foundational personality I have based on my childhood that you're not going to change.

I can get better, but I am what I am. And saying, you know, change is hard when you want help and want to change. It's impossible if you don't. So we are kind of at our core, sort of what we are. And I think there are certain things. You can't get away from the violence in football or UFC. You can't get away from the lack of urgency in baseball. And I don't think you can avoid tanking.

And the reason being is because in basketball, and this is not true with other sports, in basketball, you could identify at 13 years old. Kobe, LeBron, Wemby. The Spurs went on a three-year mission to get Wemby. They saw that. That's not the way it works in football. Lamar Jackson, we were arguing after he was drafted.

Can he play quarterback? You know, Mahomes couldn't win in college. Josh Allen, he's overrated and wild. In basketball, men and women. Freshman year of high school, it's defined. That player's different. That Yukon girl that dominates, sixth grade basketball.

It's like, oh, that's the best six-grade basketball. grade basketball player we've ever seen. So, and my take is basketball, the ability to spot transformational talent so early, it's not a singular year tank. People see it. They don't have to resign players. They can move off players. That the NBA should just be like, listen, if if we're, if there's a great player every year and a different team gets the great player, it's unavoidable and it's not terrible for the league. Like Cooper, flag probably saved Charlotte. I mean, literally, if he goes there,

it's like, okay, now Lamello Ball, Cooper Flick, that's a watch. Like, that's a watch on television. My take is the NBA spent so much time paralyzed by tanking and trades. It's like football violence. Just do the best you can. You can't avoid it. What say you?

Yeah, I like that you say it's an unavoidable piece of it. I'd say the same thing about the super teams and the willingness of players to try to partner up and in a one team becoming so powerful that they present a talent mismatch to everyone in the league. To your point about Boston, like this is post KD and Steph. It happened again. And you know how it happened? The league at large undervalue Drew Holiday and Chris Sop's Porzengis. That's not on Brad Stevens. That's not Brad Stevens fault. That's the other 29 GM's fault that they were like, sure, Brad wants to pay for Chrisops. Let him. Well, well, now he's a problem.

Okay, so it's like, now they have $5.30 million players. And I also just generally think that, like, I mean, to your point that there's, there's five, six teams this year that have a really good chance to win, even with Boston being the way that they are. So like, I don't think, I think it makes for interesting storylines.

As far as the tanking piece goes, it's even more unavoidable when you factor in just basic stuff, which is like if it's game 65 and we don't have a chance to make it to the playoffs, I shouldn't be playing my vets. I should be playing my young players. So different than if you're like, hey, you know what? I don't need to see Andy Dalton start in week 15.

I'd rather see my third round pick get a chance to go out there and see what he can do. Let him get the reps. Let him learn how to play. And so at a certain point, like, even if you disincentivized it through the draft, you would never be able to stop a team from looking at the situation and going,

this season's over. We need to give our young guys the keys. And that's going to lead to a lesser basketball product. I would say that generally speaking, the basketball gods will reward the teams and the franchises that play serious basketball. Meaning, like, you'll see OKC did this a couple years ago where it's like they're playing their younger players. They're load managing Shea, but they're also teaching those kids to play damn good basketball. Hey, Chicago right now is playing their hearse off. That is a foundation.

what Chicago is doing right now is a foundational part to any hope they have of being good in the future. If you practice playing bad basketball, you'll be a bad basketball team. And so the way I look at it is like, to your point, you'll never be able to stop tanking because it's impossible

to stop teams from even prioritizing younger players' minutes. But, inevitably, organizations behaving like losers tend to remain losers. and organization, like, here go the Kings again. They had that one season, but it's like, it turns out that even a really good year from Deeran Fox and from Malik Monk and from DeMonna Sabonis is not enough to overcome organizational incompetence.

Like, at the end of the day, you can't stop bad from being bad. So stop trying to legislate it out, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I look at teams like Utah, and I know their record isn't good, but I love their GM. I think they have an excellent young coach, and they play hard. And they're just going to get better with all those draft picks. They're probably three years behind OKC. So if they land Cooper Flagg and I think they have the best percentage now, they're tied. If Utah got Cooper Flag, that's a playoff team potentially in a year.

Like, that's a really good basketball team. Obviously, if Wemby got him in San Antonio. But it's like I look at it and I think if Washington got Cooper Flag, I feel so bad for Cooper Flag. If Utah got Cooper Flag to your point, I'd be like, That kid hit a home run. He's going to do really, really well. No immediate pressure. Danny Aange, great young coach, nice little supporting players.

They just don't have a guy. I love him next to Walker Kessler, too. He'd be so good. Walker Kessler is really a nice player. In fact, the Lakers were interested in him about. If they would have got him, I would have been talking very reckless on your show, calling. He's a good player. All right, Jason, Timph, hoops tonight.

Good 50 minutes of basketball talk. Thanks, buddy. It's good to see you. Until next time. The Volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it.

But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.

This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Syke, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed human.