The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - LIVE From The LIV Tour -LIV vs. PGA Tour, Shedeur Sanders Debut, Mickelson Is The Fan Favorite, Bryson vs. Brooks Rivalry

Episode Date: August 9, 2025

Colin & John Middlekauff are LIVE from the LIV tour event at Bolingbrook Golf Club! They preview the field at the tournament, highlighting Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Bryson DeChambeau and more (5:00). They react to Shedeur Sanders making his debut in the preason (8:00) and Colin argues that Phil Mickelson looks to be in the best shape of his career after seeing him in person (12:00), and they discuss the evolution of DeChambeau from heel to hero on the tour (16:00). Finally, they sit down with Scott O’Neil, the CEO of LIV Golf to discuss the party atmosphere of LIV events, the type of experience LIV tries to create for fans and the pressure of competing with the PGA Tour (32:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I called Middilkoff, and I said, get out here to Chicago. So last night we got dehydrated. I'll leave it at that. And today we're at Bowlingbrook Country Club out in the burbs in Chicago. It's a beautiful course. And we are at the Live Golf event. I had friends and acquaintances who had said, you've got to go to one of these tournaments.

Like it's a real experience. And the first thing that jumps out to you, because we literally were, you know, Brooks Kepka's coming up, shaking our hand, coming over, the access to Dustin Johnson, Sergio Garcia, Phil Mickelson, it's just different. It's a real thing. You know, Kepka sure knows that you're a supporter because he came right over.

He doesn't smile often, that had a big smile. This is, I've been to a lot of golf events, U.S. opens, PGA tour events. The vibe here, the energy is unlike. This is more like a, I don't know, an SEC football game or something. Yeah, I mean, there's a huge crowd here today. So it is a big crowd. And I think my takeaway is, and I've always kind of believe this, You got to get out of the studio.

You got to go to events. Like I tell people, you know, I remember I used to work with a guy, Mark Shapiro. And I said, we were talking one time at Wimbledon, actually. And I said, my mom was British. I always love Wimbledon, right? I always watched it. But he'd never been to an SEC game, and he was really, really young. And I say, you just got to go.

You got to go to Baton Rouge. If you don't know what it's like during a football game, you can smell the bourbon. And when you come to one of these events, I mean, it just jumps out to you. First of all, they've taken Golf's a rich history. There was always going to be pushback on anything new in golf. We've seen it in baseball. We all knew the game had to get faster.

Right? We knew base and so it took people push back on the pitch clock. Well, the minute they did it, the sports attendance and ratings went up. I get why there was pushback with Liv. I get it. But what they've done is basically found obvious stuff that golf can and probably should tweak to get a younger audience.

And it works. It definitely works in person. I mean, it's a vibe here for sure. But they, you know, one thing they got going for him right now, I mentioned this on the driving range. Steph Curry, what he did for basketball, the interest of young people. You can go to any arena now when Steph's playing. I don't care.

The Lakers, you're going to see Steph Curry jerseysys. Bryson's kind of become that. He is just a young, hip. YouTube's been huge for him. People want to see him. The other thing is, we're on the first tee, the leaderboard in this tournament. Brooks Kepka's won five majors. I mean, he knocked off people like Tiger Woods

who tried to beat him. Phil Mickelson's won six majors, one of the most legendary players ever. They have some star power. I was telling you, Terrell Hatton, who is going to be one of the superstars on the Ryder Cup for the international team for years to come. Like, it goes Rory Rom and he's right there. So, I mean,

they got, I mean, when they built this thing, you know, golf's very dependent, like basketball, on the stars. Yes. Outside of maybe Augusta. Yeah, and they got a lot of, Sergio Garcia won the Masters. Patrick Reed won the Masters. So they got a lot of accomplished golfers out here for sure. You know, it's funny.

It was interesting because I would say about four or five years ago. I was a huge Dustin Johnson fan. And he's one of those, and I saw him in person today. I mean, he was three feet from us. Doesn't he look like an NFL quarterback? Oh, he's big. I mean, he is, Dustin's a professional athlete. But his game is fascinating because there was, there was a time, I mean,

such a mental game. There were about four years ago with Dustin Johnson. I thought he was going to take over the sport. And there are still times I watch him on the live tour, and I'm like, he's really a dynamic, powerful player. But for some reason, and I think that's the beauty of golf and the burden of it, like what's, where is Dustin Johnson now? Well, I mean, kind of, I would say, definitely on the back night of his career, probably on whole 16, 17, 18. I mean, he had a run where he won a PJ tour event, I think in like 12 straight years. I think looking back, he's one of those guys.

You know, Brooks got the five majors. Phil's got six majors. You look back on DJ's career. I bet he's kicking himself. He probably should have had six or seven. And he's probably going to end up with two. Now, he did win the Masters, which definitely changed his life. I mean, there was that one.

Remember when Fox bought the U.S. Open and DJ three putted, and Jordan Speeth ended up winning at Chambers Bay. Your home stomping ground. So I think he's one of those careers where you just look back. I mean, it's been incredible. He's one of the most accomplished golfers of his era. And he's one of the most talented because you see him. I think with golf, I guess football's a little like this.

Guys come in different shapes and sizes. But Dustin stands out amongst everybody. Even next to Phil, he trumps them by three or four inches. I mean, I watched six golfers. He didn't look six six. I mean, he's massive. Of all the six golfers, I saw that teed off today, Mickelson, Brooks Kepka, Sergio, Hatton.

There was no question. Dustin sounded different. Yeah. I mean, he is just a big, he's a professional athlete. So, but I think that, you know, the air thing that struck me today is that when I, you get access to the driving range, like really close. And we got a little closer than the fans, maybe five feet. But when I turned around and I looked at the audience, much younger audience than you would see, and there's always been young golf fans. But if you watch the gallery at the U.S. Open or Augusta, it's 45, 55.

That's a lot of 23, 28-year-old kids out here. You come out here to hang out. It's a party. Most golf events, I live by one in Phoenix. They're not usually parties. So, I mean, this is my first time in Chicago. I've always heard it's an event, party kind of atmosphere. You can tell people gravitate toward fun stuff here.

festivals, music's big here, events. And this is an event. I mean, it's one of those that you've got to be here to kind of feel it. You know, I mean, that music blasts on hole one. That was crazy. Yeah, so they had paratroopers come in. They got music blasting on the first hole. And I also think, I mean, I've only been in Chicago full time now for about four months.

But when you have a city with a harsh winter, when the sun comes out, people, they're getting their car, they'll drive too out, they don't care. That's why music, that's why they just. had something here the Erdian Town. I don't even know. It was a Lala. What was the... Lallapalooza. That's thing still real, right? It had a massive crowd. Been gone since I was a kid. It had a massive crowd here. And it's like, yeah, because for four months, you can't get out of the house. So when you have this event, I mean, this is a big crowd. I've been here about these Chicago summers forever. It's still hot. You know,

people act like it's like 70 degrees. You know what? It's warm. We got lucky today, though. Cool place, yeah. We got a great. We got great. It's not good for the golfers, maybe. No, terrible. already all over the place. Yeah. No, I think listen, we have to at least address for a minute Shadur Sanders. Yeah. Okay,

it's a podcast, right? We got a couple topics here. So before he got drafted, he debuted last night. My take was always, big enough, accurate enough, moves well enough. When I watched last night, he checked those boxes. I don't know if he's going to be good pre-snap.

Is he mature enough? But when I watched them last night, that was an event by the way, speaking of an event at the Live Golf, that was an event last night. When I watched him, he was kind of what he was in college. He's accurate. He moves well enough. There are so many other boxes to check to be a franchise quarterback. But my take was he delivered.

He was what he was in college. I think the one thing with preseason, because it's hard to put it on context. Like, I don't know if you're going up against the next Trent Williams or the next guy that's going to be selling insurance a month, right? So you've got to be careful with that. You can judge instincts, and you can just judge this guy can play football. Now, the game plan, the regular season is a different animal than the preseason. But Chador's always just kind of been an instinctive.

He's never met his dad athletically. He's not the most explosive athlete. He doesn't have the greatest arm. But he kind of just makes him plays. Now, are they going to throw him out week one? They're not going to do that. But this was always like once he started dropping in the draft, someone took him. If he looked good, it was going to be kind of, it's going to be a circus.

I mean, you thought it was big now. Can you imagine Cleveland Radio this week? They're not going to want to see one snap from Flacco. No one's going to want to see Flacco take a second. No one's going to want to see Kenny Pickett. It's a very Tebow feel, but he's much better than Tebow. Way better. I mean, he's a quarterback.

Right. Tebow, this guy's a quarterback. Now, can he be a good quarterback? And this is where if I'm the owner, listen, I'll give you a month because as the head coach, you can't just walk into Miles Garrett. If Miles goes, I don't think he's quite ready yet and not play the veteran guy. But if we're one and three, one and four, I'm making the switch quicker than some teams do. Remember, like, when Lamar came in for,

It was like the end of October. I'm not waiting that long. Yeah. You want to give this guy, to me, if I'm Haslam, I'm already, like, at minimum, let's get like 10 games. We got two first round picks. If we're bad anyway, we're going to be drafted a quarterback. Let's get a big sample size. Who knows? Maybe we don't keep them.

We can flip them. Yeah, absolutely. So John and I'll be doing our stuff tomorrow, obviously, on Sunday night. A lot of NFL stuff. Little teaser there. So as I watched Phil Mickelson, John and I went to the first tee. And they got the paratroopers, there's fireworks. Mickleson, first of all, I was in really good shape.

He looks good. And he was the most popular golfer here. He was really popular. But it was interesting because when I watch Phil... He's probably my generation's Arnold Palmer or something, don't you think? I think so. Phil now is not yet Greg Norman, but it kind of feels like he's a businessman. By the way, he is the attraction.

I'm like he and Bryson are... And golf has always had a great legacy. It loves its old stars, right? But when I watch Phil today, he's in the best shape I've ever seen. And I'm kind of wondering, and I'm thinking, because you're next to me, I'm kind of thinking, where are we with Phil? Do we expect him to win? Do we, or is it just like, it's like when musical acts,

their last eight years would go to Vegas. And they couldn't quite hit the notes, but you wanted to go watch Barry Manilow. Like, no, I'm not saying that, but there is a part of me with Phil. It's like, I don't really care how he plays. just want to see Phil Mickelson. Well, he's 55. He's probably never going to win another major. I mean, he won one of a couple years ago at Kiowa. That was one of the coolest things. I think he's one of the oldest players to ever win a major. I forget the exact stat. He might,

he was 50 years old. At 55 to still be this good, you could make the argument that he's the greatest 55-year-old golfer in the history of the sport. You know, relative, is he going to beat Bryson and Kepka on a weekly? No. The Masters is the one place because they play there every year, and he's exempt for life being a champion. I think two years ago, I think he finished second. Now, is he going to win the event? I wouldn't bet. Is he going to take out Scotty Sheffler or Bryson if they're on? Probably not.

But that is one event where he can get hot. I think he could top 10 there again in his late 50s. That is an incredible. Remember what a big deal it was in the mid-80s when Jack won at 46 years old? Yeah. And people are in better shape now. For sure. They eat better.

You're right. Phil looks great. I mean, he looks way better than he did when he was my age. I was 30s, early 40s. No, so is Phil's about 6-2? Yeah. So I looked at him today, and I'm 6-1. And I'm a buck 90.

And Phil's bigger than I am. Yeah. And I looked at him, I'm like, he's 6-2-208? I mean, Phil's big. I mean, hips, big. And I looked at him, I'm like, Phil's in, and he had a tight golf shirt. I'm like, that's the best shape Phil's ever been in. You know, Bones, Phil's old cat.

I heard him say this once. He's like, you know, when you look at Phil relative to a lot of these guys, you know, kept his battled knee injuries. Bryson had a back when he got big. Phil's never had an injury. When you look at his swing, because I don't know if it's his flexibility, His swing kind of looks identical as it did 20 years ago. He swings and, you know, power is a big part of his game.

Kind of a unique. A lot of these guys, the nature of the swing, it's not a normal human motion. Well, baseball players, left-handers. Yeah. It looks better. It looks fantastic. You know, so, yeah, I mean, he's never been injured, still playing, you know, relatively. Again, you top five at the Masters in your 50s?

Like, that's, it probably happened, I don't know, less than two times in the history of the game. Yeah, it's really fun here. really an event. I mean, they, first of all, it's incredibly well-staffed. You know how when you have different leagues, sometimes you're like, well, it's a shoestring budget. That's not the case. I don't think budget is the issue here. It is not the issue. No. They have, and I'm sure they have this everywhere, but they... I think the key, and they know what they're doing, is going to cities that are party, fun places, and it's going to work. You know, I think they had an event earlier in Arizona and Tucson. I don't know if it was last year or this year. They've been, they've gone,

Honda, Australia, when they go to places that are fun, I mean, the atmosphere will be, there won't be anything like that. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know because where I live in Chicago, this is about an hour 10 drive. So I was thinking, no, look at a decent crowd, but you've got to get in your car and commit to it. And then you have to commit coming home. And I was like, we had traffic, like real traffic. And I got here and I looked at the first hole.

I'm like, oh, shit, this is a real crowd. Like, this is a real, this is something. And I think the one thing, and this is not, because, first of all, watching Rory when the Masters is about, I said it on the air, that was like four and a half hours of the best TV of my life. Like I, watching Tiger when he got old when the, there's nothing like the traditional British Open. I mean, I love it. When Phil won the PGA a couple years ago. You can really like two things at the same time.

It's like I was never, when I first defended Liv, my take it away was, guys, if I say your favorite part of golf, you're either going to say it's the Masters, which isn't run by the PGA. That's not a shot at the PGA. PGA was a charity that didn't run the U.S. Open, the British, Augusta. So my take is always, I've always been loyal to the golfer. I wanted to see Phil and Bryson and Kepka. I wanted to see the golfer today. But I also understood the pushback by traditionalists because outside of baseball, it's probably the most tradition-rich sport.

But when you watch today, one of the things that jumps out to me is I grew up in a small town. We didn't have country clubs. I've always felt like an outsider in golf, even though I've gotten a bug in the last three years. When you're here, it kind of feels like they took that veneer and they pulled it off. They should just get close to the golfers. And I think that's something that golf for younger generations, I think it works. I think one thing that I'm big on is on Sunday is everyone having the same rotation of holes.

And I didn't know, I don't know if they've been doing this, but staggering the first team with multiple groups. So those six guys, instead of one, you know, the winner might finish on hole three because he started on hole two. This, you know, they're going multiple groups off one. That means they're all going to finish on 18. Like I like seeing the guys come down 15, 16, 17, 17. But Phil, Kepka, all those guys went off hole one. So I like the way that they do that, the stagger T on, you know, with the leaders, multiple groups. The, it's just, it was really interesting today.

but when Brooks Kepka came over to us. He likes you, Colin. You've been a supporter. He's a sports guy. I was a huge Kepka guy, did not like the Shambo for the first two years and the 13 egg omelets. And then Bryce and I thought got very likable. He kind of a little more human, a little more humble. Well, Brooks embraced him.

Huh? Brooks embraced them. They're buddies. Yeah. And so it was like, okay. And then Brooks, I think, struggled with an injury. and but Brooks and it just

it doesn't matter what business it is it could be politics it can be golf Deschambo is an aggressive guy and it's just sort of his personality whereas Brooks is but I think I if I had to guess he's probably super private yes really private

so like you get all types like you know if you're a politician you have to be somewhat social Aaron Rogers is not the same personality is Tom Brady. Remember Jake Plummer? I love Jake Plummer. ASU. Love him. Jake and Aaron are a little iconic classic. They're not corporate guys. They're just not comfortable in that space. That's okay. Not everybody's a... Brady feels like a corporation. Manning feels like he leans into the corporation.

So I always thought Bryson and Brooks may have been big, strong, great-looking alphas. They're just different guys. Well, they're kind of opposite. You know, Brooks early on his career, gravitated with DJ. both feel like, at least to the public, introverted, not giving you a lot. Bryson, who did he gravitate toward Phil? You know, politicians shaking hands, knows everybody's names, hanging out with the CEO of all the companies. And that's kind of Bryson's personality. Bryson's, they're unique characters.

You know, DJ and Brooks, like I envision them on a Sunday watching football at home. You know, who knows, Bryson's out measuring the next golf club. Colin Phil, what he thinks about the wind and the scientific, intrinsic force of the golf ball. And that's what they talk about. DJ says, I want to hit a fade, I hit a fade. I think, you know, it was interesting. I know there was a book written about Phil.

I don't think Phil liked it at all by Alan Shepnuck. And it was really fun. It was called Phil. And I like Alan and I, you know, I've always been fascinated by Phil Michael. Phil Mickelson's the only person in American sports that I've never interviewed that I want to. And I wouldn't even talk golf. I just talk life. Yeah.

But when I read the book, what was interesting was Phil's never tried to necessarily sell himself as politically correct. I thought the book made him, remember the movie Gordon Gecko, Wall Street. So when they made that movie Oliver Stone, he wasn't trying to make Gordon Gecko popular, but young stockbrokers watched the movie and went, that is cool, I want to be Gordon Gecko. And Oliver Stone said, yeah, that wasn't the mission. Is that when Alan Shepnuck writes the book, you're like, oh, it's very critical. And I was like, yeah, but I've drank too much and I've done this. I thought it kind of humanized him.

I looked at Phil and I was like, I think I like Phil more. Now, when somebody writes a book about you, that's not how it lands for you. But I think Phil, watching how he was welcome today, I think everybody gets what Phil is. He's a great, you ever use this term? He's a great hang. I played in a golf event in Scottsdale probably two or three months ago with multiple of his college teammates. And they are still very, very close friends with him today. and one of their, like, football is a big part of all these guys' lives.

You know, they like football. I'm with you on Phil. One thing that my friends text about with Phil a lot was like, you know that he gambles on football. So why? You know, so does every single human in my life. Yeah, you get into trouble in life when you're selling one thing and you're doing another.

You don't, people love John Daly, and John's like, yeah, I smoke way too much. And it's like, it'd be one thing if we caught him smoking on a tour and he's saying, you know, I'm, I don't care, politicians do this. You're flawed. Own it. Yeah. Just own your stuff. So when I look at Phil, his legacy to me is he's a good hang.

Yeah, I mean, I think he's going to get. I mean, if we were doing like quarterbacks, he's easily one of the top seven, eight golfers in the history of the sport. And he's, to me, he's the Peyton Manning of golf. He just happened to play against Tom Brady. He just happened to play against Tiger Woods. Right? If Tiger Woods doesn't exist, well, let's Phil winning. 12 majors.

You know, I mean, there was a time. Phil didn't win his first major until he was in his mid-30s. Isn't that crazy? That's the wild part. And he won the one of three. So I think you could argue his career, you know, is unique because he won a tournament as an amateur. And he was kind of Tiger Woods before Tiger Woods. And then five years later, Tiger came.

And it was just an all-time comment. I mean, just ask yourself this. I think once Rory won the Masters, because that was the one we were all rooting for. Yeah. Right? Like all of a sudden, Rory's playing well at Augusta. You're like, oh, Sunday, I'm sitting in front of a TV. If I told you there's any golfer in the world, and I said, it's 2 o'clock Eastern on a Sunday.

and blank leads Augusta. I think most sports fans would say, oh, give me Phil. Yeah, heck yeah. I mean, that's even though, because there are certain golfers, because golf's history, it's like,

it's almost like watching old Nolan Ryan. Nolan Ryan, they still put him on the marquee when he was like at the end of his career. There was one Nolan Ryan. And it's not just, but you have seven no hitters. There are certain athletes, Farr have had this quality.

They're just, relatable. You just kind of like some kinetic energy. You just kind of feel like when they're in the room, they change the temperature. Well, I think it was too, like during the Tiger era, obviously Tiger was the best player I've ever seen, but he didn't talk to anybody, had no friends, wouldn't even look at him. Mark Omira and him were kind of okay. But then they broke up. Phil was the one guy that would kind of play the Arnold Palmer role that would talk with the fans that was a big personality. So they kind of yin and yanked each other in terms of personalities. He was pretty important for Tiger in terms of the balancing out. I mean, those two

were in such a different stratosphere. Remember when they used to do like highest paid athlete? And it'd be Tiger than Phil, then like the Kobe's and all the other guys. And then LeBron came along. And they were always third behind those two guys. Yeah. I mean, they changed. They took golf to a popularity level and a corporate level, I would say in the 2000s that they had never even dreamed of with guys like Arnold Palmer, right? Yeah. You know, if you go back to and you'd have to Google this, but if you go back to 1960, before the PGA was created, I could be wrong on this. Weren't Arnie and Jack because it was called something differently and they didn't quite think they were getting paid enough? Yeah, they were about to break it down. They were about. They tried. Jack

led the charge. Yeah. So I think, you know, Phil, Greg Norman, complained for years. You told me a story when you thought there was a breaking point with Phil, and that's why I've always defended, live. What was the breaking point? It was Fox. They bought the U.S. open. And I think they were paying well over $100 million for a 10-year deal a tournament. So 10 tournaments, a billion dollars. And I remember Hunter Mayhan, who was very close with Phil, was like one issue, a lot of players, but Phil was the most outspoken about it. In baseball, basketball, football, there's a revenue sharing. Well, I get 49, you get 51. I get 49, 8, you get, you know, whatever. It's split basically even. The purse went from like 12 million to 16 million. And Phil's

like, what the hell is going on here? Where is the money going? Right. It didn't make sense. And that was, and obviously, you know, live coming around, the PGA money, the money's exploded since this. Competition usually creates that. But like all these golfers have benefited, but it was never like that. That's right. You know, Tiger, all these guys, Phil, too, when they were making $60, $80 million a year, they're only making three or four on the course. It was all coming off the course. Yeah. That's where Scotty Sheffler now made $65 million. Wacheneemann winning all these tournaments has made like $35, million. These guys now are paid like NBA NFL player. And should be.

Yeah. I mean, you and I were talking when we were driving here to the tournament today. You've got to drive yourself. If you get sick, it's like being a lawyer. If you're not working, you're not getting paid. Well, you're own business. So you're paying your coach, you're paying your caddy, you're paying yourself, you're paying the gym. You know, it's like you are paying for

the hotel when the chiefs are playing the Cardinals today. Do you know what Patrick Mahomes doesn't have to worry about? The hotel. Travis Kelsey, they take care of all that stuff. So that's that's not golf. But that's what makes this sport kind of way different than all the other team sports in the sense that you're kind of on your own, right? You have to worry about yourself. You have to, you're just an independent contractor. But when you're Brooks, when you're Bryson, when you're Scotty, Rory, these guys are such big businesses now. I mean, what's the

difference between Phil's business for 20 years and Steph Curry in terms of the revenue flowing in? So you need the right people around you. Think about what a common ship Bryson is right now. I mean, just a business rocket ship. John Middlakov, the herd. We are at Bowling Brook, LIV tour, live tour has been fantastic. The guy that runs the whole thing, every golfer owes him a debt of gratitude.

Isn't that nice? I'm not sure if that's true, but it really is a good intro. All right, round one here. It lives in Chicago. The Live Golf CEO, he succeeded Greg Norman, Scott O'Neill, with a storied and interesting

Nick Sixers history and more next. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the, early names of our band before Jonas Brothers

was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast

where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. and actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, Scott O'Neill has been kind enough to stop by. He sort of escorted John and I for an hour. You succeeded Greg Norman in 2025. five. And I think both John and I today are takeaway on this because I had friends that come, Foxes obviously has a relationship. It's an event. It's a good time. And that's not a criticism of anything. But when you're new, you get those little freebies that you're not beholden to tradition. And you know, you've seen, you ran the Sixers. You ran Madison Square Garden Network. When you succeeded Greg, your takeaway was, is it an intentional act to be different?

Or do you just kind of watch your sport and watch the crowd and listen to the golfers on all these innovations? Right, that's an interesting position. I can tell you that having been in sports for 30 years in the NFL and the NBA and NHL, I've seen leagues change. We talked about earlier, Major League Baseball puts a runner on second next to your innings. It has a pitch clock. By the way, two things that I absolutely love, where Philly season ticket, We go to a lot of baseball games.

I love it. The two-line pass that just grinded the NHL to a halt or overtime that could seem to last forever. Now that three-on-three overtime in the NHL is genius. And with golf, we're not splitting atoms and we're not saving lives, but we're bringing fans into this game. So if there are little things we can do to bring new people to this game and live our mission, and by the way, the PGA tour does a wonderful job in the U.S.

All we're saying is we want to take these stars and take them to the world because the game is growing in Australia. It's growing in Korea. It's growing in China, and we have this opportunity to grow the game. And so if we have guys, stars like Bryson D. Shambo and John Rom, and Brooks Kepka and Phil Mickelson, I heard you talking about Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, all these stars, if they're willing to get on a plane and fly to Korea, let's go. Let's go grow this game.

Do they ever complain about the music? No. You know what's so strange? That existed before you got here, right? Yeah, they love the music. On the range, a lot of them have headphones, and they're listening to music, first off. But what's really strange to me is they're the fond of the music, but if somebody says something on their backs, they'll step back and look over at them, you know, which, which, to me, is strange, but they like the consistency of the music. They like the PA. And on the first tee, you might remember, their walk-up songs, just like baseball. They choose them. They choose them. Yeah. And it always is funny. It's, it's, the songs they choose always are very fitting. Dustin Johnson came out to Wonderwall by Oasis. You know, these guys are superstitious. They're superstitious, too. They have a bad round. The

song's gone. Yeah, I can imagine. So how often do the golfers, because you have a relationship with all of them? Very much. And again, I'm not taking shots. James, Jim Huanahan had some contentious relationships. And my take was always, outside of Augusta, I don't watch golf for the course, I watch it for the guys. Your relationship's different. Like, the golfers are coming over to you. Yes. Do they complain? Do they make suggestions? You tell me what you go through Bryson, Phil, Sergio. What are the conversations like when they call you at 930 at night? Yeah, yeah. No, we're a 24-7 operation. And some of those guys like 6 a.m. calls and some of them like them at midnight, and I'll take them all. I cannot get enough of these players.

I always think ambivalence is the worst possible emotion. And whether that be a fan or a player, guys that are passionate and have something to say, I've got a lot of time for. We're very active with the players. Now, they're our business partners. It's a bit of a different model. You know, they own equity in the teams. You know, it's a very different model. And so every change we make, every course we go to, the schedule on how it's set up, do you want to play before major or after major? I'm engaging.

We're talking about agronomy last night with some of these players. Like, hey, the greens are rolling at 11. You know, the wind's coming in. Should we be watering? Should we not be watering? Should we be pressing? I mean, they are very, very much into making this great. But guess what?

This is our third full year. imagine Major League Baseball in year three. Imagine the National Football League in year three. We're year three. Well, you're friends with Dana White, who I love, and you love UFC as well. So I can remember being in a bar in the bay, and it wasn't UFC yet, who, by the way, the late John McCain tried to throw UFC off cable. They were battling for years. You watch an event now, and you're like, man, it's slick.

I can remember when Dana took it over, and he wanted corporate support. It's like, we can't do eye-gouging. We can't do this. If you go look at over the course of UFC, now it looks all slick. My wife's not a sports fan. She loves UFC. But the truth is, we live in a very impatient world. Live golf's in year three.

Like, guys, take a deep breath. It's like a business. I'm in year four of the volume. There are things we do now we look at. I was like, why were we doing this two years ago? Like the world, you're an entrepreneur. It's growing. You know what's going through my head?

This isn't the question. but I'm like, Connor McGregor, is that our Bryson Deschambeau? What did you say? Do you remember GSP? GSP, is that John Rom? That's what's going through my head as you're talking about. It's very similar. And UFC never had the, you know, there are more famous players, I would say, in Lived than UFC's ever had.

Of course. At least, I mean, eventually your top five, six guys. I'm looking at our leader, Chuck Lidel. I mean, he's in that. Chuck Liddell's a good one, too. He's a needle mover. No, you, Phil, I asked you, I said, where is Phil? now. And you reminded me he had a top

10 finish at Augusta a couple years ago. Second, I think two years ago. What is, you have a close relationship. What is he now? Is he entran manure first? Is he golfers second? I mean, he's slimmed down. What is he? I mean, he's an enigma, and I don't think there's going to be another Phil Nicholson.

He's 54 years old, about turned 55. His goal this year was to get into the top 10 of this league with a bunch of young stars in their prime. Okay? He decided to remake and change his game to be a little less wild wild west a little bit more less hit it in the middle of the fairway let's get on in regulation and let's

let's take this putter for a spin. Not because of the team format or just his body? No I think his body's changed. He can't do what these young kids. We talked about Tom McKibbon or Caleb Surat or David Poohs they're coming and hitting a ball 330 yards off the tee and he's like okay I know I can't do that but I can beat these guys. I'm better

I'm that good so that's one part of Phil the second part of Phil is he's just a competitor like these guys you look at golfers from the outside before I came to this business. And I'm like, God, it's nice. These are not gentlemen, okay? These are guys who are so fiercely competitive.

When they come off the course, they're like, you know, they have all this testosterone and adrenaline roll, and I'm like, I like to see it. I mean, we do a little corporate thing, a little putting contest. I mean, DJ was complaining that the reeds were different. It was a bunch of executives putting alongside this competition. These guys want to win and want to fight, and that's the other side of Phil. And the third piece is, think about Phil. the learner. Think about like Phil saw what Bryson was doing on YouTube and he's like,

why can't I do that? So we partners with Grant Horvath. Now he's got 400,000 followers on YouTube. Phil Mickelson, 54 year old Phil Mickelson, reimagining himself, reinventing himself. And then he's obviously the captain and one of our partners and high flyers. So he's always, I see him on the first tee. I'm like, hey Phil, good luck, knock him dead, give him hell today. And he wants to talk about the business. Okay, Scott, how many fans we're going to have here today? When you go to, when you're looking at a market and you, I mean, I'm like, I'm this guy. This guy's for real. So I love, I've been around some of the great execs in the world.

David Stern was a longtime mentor of mine. I worked for him for eight years. And I just remember him being this lifelong learner. Adam Silver, the current commissioner of the NBA, always learning, always reaching, always discovering, always figuring out what do I have to do next? That's Phil Nicholson. Was Duel's his idea? Was that yours?

No, you know, that came out of, you know, like, we've been studying YouTube spaces. if you walk the range and talk to the young kids, which I like to do, I always say, who's your favorite player, Bryson D. Chambot? Really, how'd you discover Bryson? You two. So I think once we saw the revolution happening on YouTube, the duo. I bet when Grant or Fat Perez come out here, they're just as famous. Yeah, no, it's amazing.

And so for those you who don't know, the Duel's is a program. We have golf influencers, and they partner up with one of our stars, and then they play a competition for money, for the, you know. And the fact that you can get John Rom to give four hours of his time to play an event, you know, it's pretty special. I don't think that happens in any other sport anywhere else in the world. None of us are born in a test tube, Billy Joel said in his recent documentary. We all have influences. All of us in our life.

We have mentors. It could be our dad. Do you look at, say, F1, and you look at it and think, that's a little bit of an inspiration for us. Are there sports that you look at? because we connect you to golf, but golf's global now. And I look at F1 and I think, in UFC, and I think, oh, that is, that's live golf. That's how I view it. Do you look at F?

That's 100% of how I see it. When you say golf is global, I would push back on you and say, well, you know, maybe before Tiger, the sport was global. You know, you had the European tour and the PGA tour, like sitting side by side, and then Tiger comes and all the money, all the sponsors, all the TV money shifts over the PGA tour. And so then 42 events a year, you've got every great player in the world playing in the U.S. And like Formula One, we go to Riyadh, and then we go to Australia, and then Hong Kong and Singapore and Mexico City. And yes, we're here in the U.S. five times a year, which is in the U.K., fantastic. We love being in the U.S. I'm an American. I absolutely love it here. But the growth of the game, if you want to grow the game, you've got to take stars, and you've got to put them in Korea.

You've got to put them in Hong Kong. And that, we think, attracts more young fans and talent to this game, and this game is going to the moon. What are the demographics quickly on? I mean, you've looked at all of them. What is the average live golf fan? What's the demo? They were about 15 years younger than a typical golf fan. That's what we saw today.

Yeah. And what you might also see if you get to walk a little bit is you see parents pushing strollers. You'll see groups of women coming. about 40% of our audience as female. It could be a good dating opportunity, for those you are single out there, come to see Liv. So it's a younger, it still has disposable income.

We do have concerts, you know, so we have, in the next coming, we've got Swedish House Mafia, we have Imagine Dragons, so Jason Derulo, so we have concerts that I think attract a younger audience as well. One question I'm sure you get a lot. Is unification?

Yes. You're an NBA, NFL, the new commissioner, the PGA Tour CEO, whatever the heck of that position is. He's an NFL guy. Have you guys talked? You know, just what the chatter out there, what is the reality of what's... Sure. So I'm not sure it's like the NFL. I think it's more like NASCAR and Formula One.

So the question is, should NASCAR and Formula One figure out a way to work together? I think so. Brian Rolap and I went to school together, so we know each other fairly well. I've known each other for a long time. He's really early in his job. I think he's two weeks in. And most importantly, we have less scar tissue. And that's throughout the whole industry.

You know, I'm new. You know, the LPGA commissioner's new. Now, Brian at the PGA tour is new. Mark Darbin at the RNA is new. So you have all these new people here. And why are we all here? Because the boards in all of golf looked around and said, huh, I don't think this is good enough.

I don't think we're heading in the right direction. I think we've got to find a way to put more players playing together. How are we going to do that? How are we going to lift up? How are we going to compete against cricket and football and tennis? Why are we competing against ourselves so much? When you have an event like this, how do you select? Obviously you want to make a global, but how did you select Chicago? How does it, I mean, is that your call before you was that predate you? Greg Norman. Who makes the decisions where you play? Why? Right. So the board has to approve. So our chairman has to approve. And Ross Hallett runs our events, like a 30-year executive in golf, mostly at IMG, is now here. And then I'm very engaged, of course. Now, Chicago, why not Chicago? I mean, it's one of the great cities of America. It's a big golf starved in terms of this area. And this course is absolutely spectacular.

You mentioned something earlier, and you know this being in Philadelphia, when you live in a city with three or four cold winter months, when the sun shines in March, everybody jogs, like non-joggers jog. So my take was it works in this city because for four months you don't go outside. Is that something you would, like Philadelphia's got that feel? Boston has that feel. I spend some time in the Northeast. I mean, if it's sunny in April, Boston is like jogging capital. of the world. Do you think about, because you're such an event, this is an event we're watching, it's not about history, it's about what town or city works for us. Is that under consideration?

Yeah, of course. I mean, we were just in Dallas, though, and that's sun almost every day of the year, and it was blazing high, and we had 50,000 people show up. Yeah, so, you know, we're in the UK, the sun's never out. I live there for two years, and we have 40,000 people come there. So I feel like if we do our jobs and let people know that we're in town with the kind of star power we have, good things happen. When you put a music act around it, we have good Charlotte here playing today. I can't tell you who good Charlotte is. I can tell you my daughters can. You know, and so there is a younger demo we're looking for.

And I think if we go to the right markets, in many cases, we're going to Indianapolis. Not exactly a powerhouse market, right? But it's a golf star market. And that is a market that knows how to rally for big events. I've been there for final fours. You know, you know how that handles the final four. It does it really well, and I think they're handling us really well. Well, I sent a pick to our mutual buddy, Howie Roseman.

And, you know, like, if Howie's dealing with the player, it's either the player or the agent, right? That's not, he doesn't have to deal with anyone else. Golfers have an entourage. They got coaches, they got agents, they got a lot of people around them. How do you deal with that? Oh, we, this is a league of alphas. So, you know, if John Rom or DJ or Phil or Price and having a lot, issue. It's one on one, yeah. It's one on one. That's okay. But remember that how complicated

relationship is. We sign them, you know, we have to hug them. We have to, they're our business partners. We find them when things go wrong. So it's a complicated relationship, like how you manage that ecosystem. How does someone, if you don't know these guys, obviously when you get the job, forge a relationship in a short period of time with Phil, Bryson, all these guys? How's it possible? Well, we spent a lot of time together, and we've been on the road for seven months. And we, and we you effectively live on airplanes and hotels and at the course together. So time was one. Second is you put infrastructure in place. So I have team breakfast, at least one time. We have all kinds of committees that we get together. I'm interacting with them. We eat breakfast, lunch,

and dinner together. I mean, we're with these guys all the time. And so, and then it's about, am I curious enough, am I humble enough to engage? Yeah, we talked about this before you came on. And if you're just tuning in, this is Scott O'Neill. He's a LiveGolf CEO, and he worked for the Sixers, ran that organization, and MSG Entertainment. Is that what you ran? The New York Knicks and New York Rangers. Okay, that's a big job. James Dolan.

Yes. Just spoke to him two days ago. Oh, you did? I did. I don't like what they did with Tom Thibito, but that's another podcast. No, it sure is. Heck of a coach. He is.

When you look, you're obviously going to expand and you want to keep doing that globally. is where the money comes from, are there demands that you have to meet? Do you feel like... Is there pressure? Yes. Of course it's pressure. Because there's always this... Hey, money is endless.

Money's not an issue, and I always think money's an issue everywhere. Everywhere, of course. You know, I've worked in private equity now for 12 years, okay? And for Josh Harris and David Blitzer from Apollo and Blackstone, and in my last role with a Blackstone company, and now here with PIF. And yes, there's a lot of pressure to deliver a business. And that's what I signed up for. Like, I can't get enough of this.

I will tell you, there are very few times in life, you probably both have it too, where you can't wait to get up in the morning. Like, there's so much fun here that I cannot wait to get out of bed and get kicking. Like my hard thing for me is turning it off, not turning it on. So pressure, bring it on. As Brooks Kevka always says, pressure is a privilege. So relegation is happening? Yes, we got six.

So when that happens, where are you purchasing the players from, to fill those spots. Yeah, so, good question. So in some cases, we have promotion events. So we have the Asian tour, the best person on the Asian tour, gets an invite in. And then we have a promotions event where you can earn your way in. And then we'll go talk to PGA, European Tour, NCA players. So signing a player from the PGA tour is still on the table. Of course, yeah, of course. Scott O'Neill, this has been great. Thanks for having me. You bet. Good to be a member of the herd. Hey guys, it's us The Jonas Brothers, I'm Joe

I'm Kevin And I'm Nick And guess what We created our own podcast Called Hey Jonas We invented a podcast Well we didn't invent it We just contributed to it

We're the first people to do podcasts We get to ask other people questions Because we're sick and tired To be in and ask questions Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it But you know Tired and sick

Tired and sick Listen to Hey Jonas On the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcast Just listen We don't care where you hear it Another podcast

from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band

with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art.

The rallies are relentless, and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns

of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garros. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs' Tennis podcast

on the I-Hart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.