The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Luka’s Lakers Debut, Butler A Perfect Fit For Warriors, Spurs Could Be A PROBLEM, NBA WAY More Interesting After Trades

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to talk all things NBA! They start with Luka Doncic making his debut with the Lakers and why his presence has reinvigorated the team and given the Lakers offense the juice to compete in the postseason (4:15). They examine all the potential western conference teams that could create problems for the Lakers in the playoffs and why the Lakers should be able to compete with all of them (8:00). Colin calls the Spurs the team he wouldn’t want to face in the playoffs despite having a record that wouldn’t qualify them for the play-in (12:45), and they discuss why Jimmy Butler being the “anti-Wiggins” has proven to be a perfect fit for the Warriors (14:30). They break down why the Kyle Kuzma trade for the Bucks was a sneaky good under the radar move (21:15), and discuss why in the era of analytics, intelligence and situational awareness are underrated traits in basketball players (28:15). Jason explains why the Lakers “small-ball” lineup isn’t actually that small (32:00), and try to solve the Knicks inability to beat the Celtics (36:00).  They discuss why all the trade deadline moves have made the league far more interesting, and why the league and owners need to be less rigid about player movement and why the Luka trade wasn’t just good for the Lakers…but for the LEAGUE (46:00). Finally, Colin explains why the size of the supermax contract Luka was due makes trading him far less egregious (56:45).  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I think he's been the last two years the best defensive player in the league. I like Austin Reeves if he's the three or the four. LeBron having an insane year, but he's going to take some nights off. And if he does take nights off, or AD does, then Austin Reeves because you're your second option. That's not good enough. And then I'm watching them last night, and I'm like, well, Lucas missed a lot of time, so he's not taking time off. It's almost like LeBron is going to try to impress Luca. He's not going to take his many nights off.

And now I've got Austin Reeves as a third on virtually every night. Rui can always hit the corner shot. Dalton Connect, you keep him. He creates space. And I'm watching last night and I'm like, God, there's so much younger and more fun to watch. Like I got to a place where I really respected them. But I just thought, this is, there's not enough. I don't know.

I know. They don't have a rim protector. Jackson Hayes, again, Alleyoop guy, fun, energy. It's weird how just inserting Luca into it, the whole team feels younger and different. Does it feel like that to you? No, absolutely. I mean, I hated this Laker team at the start of the year. They had this personality that's like, I don't care about the work that was driving me crazy.

But over the course of the last like month, they'd been playing a really likable and fun brand of basketball. Bronn was playing super well. Austin was playing super well. Before AD got heard, he had a couple of monster games. Oh, he was great. Played really well. 20 a night, yeah. But I felt like they weren't good enough on either end of the floor to really do what you need to do to win four playoff rounds.

And I've been really keyed in on this concept lately. Like, if you're going to win the title, you have to be able to do something well enough that it really gives people problems. Like where teams can't even match up with it for one reason or another. And the Lakers just didn't have that punch on either end of the floor. Even with LeBron and AD, it's not the defensive team. It was back in 2020, right? Yeah. So they didn't have that punch.

With Luca, one of the unique things he does, this Laker team has a lot of guys who are good offensive players, as long as they're set up well. even with LeBron and Austin, like one of the reasons why they struggled against defenses that did a lot of switching all year long is LeBron's 40. And it's hard to get him to just get downhill time and time again in a random regular season game in January or December. Or Austin, not an elite athlete in terms of getting past top tier NBA talent. And Anthony Davis obviously has offensive limitations. But once you bring Luca in, he just has this magical ability to get the ball to the basket. He's so big and he's so strong and he's so good to change of pace and he's so good at getting guys sealed on his shoulder sealed on his backside. He can get downhill and now he's spraying out to all these guys and they're actually all really good offensive players when they have an advantage.

Like Rui shoots 53% on unguarded catch and shoot threes. But you need to get him unguarded catch and shoot threes. Luca can do that. And one of the biggest things that it's allowed is it's allowed LeBron James. Like, have you ever watched a guy say like, oh, LeBron. Bron should drive to the basket every time. Yeah, it sounds great, but it's really exhausting to do that, especially at his age. Now LeBron, when he gets his touches, can be super physically aggressive because he knows he has Luca to carry the lion's share of the offensive load. And so now when I

look at this situation, yeah, they have defensive question marks and we can get into that here in a minute, but I try not to overthink it. This team is going to be basically impossible to guard. And so they have a unit now, their offense, that presents legitimate problems for for every single team in the league. That is a foundation you can build on. Yeah, and remember, Dallas won the West last year, and their two best players are below-average, suboptimal defensive players, Kyrie and Luca,

is that, let's be honest about the West. Denver has Yokic, but they're atrocious defensively. Houston's young can't shoot. And I don't think they translate to a playoff team. I think they're just one of those teams. They are so young and twitchy and athletic in the regular season, if you're not well-rested, if you don't have a lot of tape time, they're a tough match.

If I get to play them seven times, they can't shoot. There's a team like that every year. Every year there's that team. Yeah. So all of a sudden, Denver can't defend. Houston can't shoot. Oklahoma City, I don't trust Chet Hungren's health. I think they're the best team.

Golden State doesn't have enough offensive firepower, very step-reliant, even with Jimmy Butler. You know, Memphis is, Memphis plays with a lot of pace and they're a lot of fun to watch. I don't trust them. You know, I've said this before, they're just teams like Philadelphia in the playoffs. I don't trust them. Memphis in the playoffs. I don't trust them.

I know Jared Jackson. I know John Morant. I get it. So if you look at the West, OKC is clearly the best team. They have the most kind of diversity of options. They have so many different players. And they're really good and really young. They're what I think Utah wants to be in about three years.

with all those draft picks. But the Lakers are an exceptional offensive team. And if you're giving me, it's also a team. LeBron clearly likes Austin Reeves. He likes to play with him. It's obvious. LeBron's like a, he's like a 15-year-old with a crush on Luca the way he plays the energy. And I just think they're so good offensively that there's nobody that's complete enough

in the West to roll them. Boston would, but Boston's got, you know, Boston's been playing these guys. You know, I watched them the other night against New York. Jesus, they're good. God, they're good. So my take is if you put them in the east, I don't think they can, I don't think they can beat Boston. I think they're a Western Conference finals team, and I'm not trying to be an L.A. Homer. Yeah, I'm with you.

Every team below, to me, OKC, Denver and the Lakers are the clear top three in the West. And Denver in, like, you were talking earlier about the young feisty athletic team. Memphis used to be that team. That's right. Houston's that team now. There's always a team like that. And that team always wins a lot of regular season games and it loses in the first two rounds. It's just that's what happens.

And let's just put it this way. Who are you picking in a playoff series? Fred Van Vleet and Jalen Green or one of these duos from the top of the conference, right? So like I'm with you on that. To me, Denver and the Lakers are both closer to OKC than people realize just because OKC is also super young and athletic and has a ton of energy for the regular season. The question marks that you talked about in terms of the Lakers with the defense,

that's where it gets interesting because the Lakers were playing some pretty damn good basketball before Luca joined the squad there. In their last 13 games, they have the best record in the league, and they have the number one defense in the league. The Lakers do, the number one defense for about a month now.

Now, there's a reason for that. Jared Vanderbilt is healthy. He is an excellent defensive player, and you turn DeAngelo Russell, a bad defensive player into Dorian Finney Smith, who's a good defensive player. And then a huge part of that is part of that excitement from LeBron has manifested

and he's playing a lot of defense this year and he's been very good on that end of the floor. But if you take a player out of that lineup and you insert Luca, you're not going to be as good defensively. That's just acknowledging reality. So when Luca's in this picture full time, you're not going to be as good defensively as you've been in the last month.

But we've seen an NBA history like with Denver. Denver in 2023, they were not an elite defense. No. But they had bad defenders on the court who did a job and did it well. That's right. And they were anchored by good defenders, Contavius Caldwell, Pope, Aaron Gordon, Bruce Brown. They had guys who did compete on defense. They did the hard jobs.

And then they created easier jobs. That's the thing. You can imagine a scenario where you've got Luca LeBron Austin. But you have Dorian, Finney Smith, and Vando out there. This is going to be a small ball team, Colin. Alex Lenn hasn't played 1,000 minutes since 2019. LeBron's played 1,600 just this year. Like Alex Lenn, he's not going to come in there and save the season.

So this is a small ball team, but you can imagine a universe where LeBron's playing defense, you've got two professional defenders in the lineup, and what if they just score every time or get a great shot every single time? A team that I think, and I don't know historically if this happens, I'll tell you the team in the West that I would not want to play. And right now they're not even a playing team. Keep your eye in San Antonio. Okay.

Stefan Castle out of Yukon is no fun to defend. That guy is this time next year, we're going to have different conversations. Deerrin Fox, I think because he plays in Sacramento, you don't realize it. He's a 25 point a night score with a high IQ. He's so good. We just don't watch him. Stefan Castle, Wembe, Deeran Fox, you know, guys that, guys that get lost, but I don't know his EPA. Yeah, I don't know what all the numbers are, but like Harrison

Barnes, you know, it's this guy that Harrison's one of those players that, like Shane Batti, you're like, I think he's really good and he ends up making your team better, but nobody wants to talk about it. I think San Antonio, if you told me they went on, like right now they're not a playing team, I think they're going to go in. Popovich is going to steal a game in a series. Houston's the team we all think's going to be dangerous. I don't. San Antonio, the team, nobody's paying attention to. I mean, can you imagine Lakers end up, you know, Denver ends up playing them.

And Wembe neutralizes Yokic to some degree and castles a pain and gets the whistle. I mean, listen, Denver, you can score on Denver. Like, they're just not good. They're not effective at all. So I think the West is really fun. I thought the NBA had a tremendous 14-day. period. I thought Jimmy Butler, you know, it's funny about this, Jason, is that I know the analytic people think Wiggins may be a better fit with Steph than Jimmy Butler. I read an article on that,

but my take is Jimmy Butler's the anti-Wiggins. He's tough. He's a badass. He's physical. He's ordinary. And he's a really good number two. It's like in baseball. It's when you try to make a 201, your pitching staff's not good. Jimmy's an excellent two behind Steph. And he's the opposite of Steph. He's tough physically. He's a mid-range guy. He'll defend you. I don't think Golden State's a championship team, but I just thought between Luca, between Deerran Fox to San Antonio, between Jimmy Butler the Warriors, I just thought the West got really, and we've talked about this. The West has been better than the East for 25 years. A lot of it's just better GMs. And I thought the West had a great 14 days.

Yeah, they completely flipped the conference over in a bunch of different ways. I liked what you said about San Antonio. Like we were talking earlier about like having a problem that other teams can't solve. Victor's a problem around the rim that other teams can't solve. And then the Deer and Fox as a two-man game partner with Wemby is a problem that teams can't solve. The Jimmy Butler thing, it was amazing to me how many people overthought this. And when I was watching the Bucks game last night and I saw Jimmy Butler constantly operating in the middle of the floor as kind of like a hub. out of the attention that Steph would gather.

It reminded me of when we'd watch the warriors back in their heyday where it's like everyone talks about shooting. But when it comes to the warriors with Steph, you don't actually want shooting as much as you want playmaking. Because what happens is Steph gets two to the ball. As soon as Steph gets two to the ball, it's a four on three. And it becomes more about quick processing and decision making and guys being in the right spots to get dunks

and maybe a wide open corner three for a certain player. out of that sequence to pay it off, then it is about like with LeBron or a rim pressuring guy where you want spacing, you want shooting that pulls guys further away from the rim. Steph inverts your spacing in that way.

It actually reminded me a lot of Andre Guadala. Remember when Andre Guadala was there, he was never a great shooter, but he constantly greased the wheels for them because he was a rangy Ford who could screen and operate in the middle of the floor, make quick decisions, new when to cut,

new one to relocate, do all those sorts of things. There was a play in the Bucks game last night where Steph took a ball, screen from Jimmy. Steph got two. He dropped it to Jimmy and Jimmy made a little ball fake to Buddy Healed and then dropped it off to Draymond Green for an easy layup underneath the basket. And I literally just watched this and I'm like, this works. This just works. You weren't comfortable with Wiggins as a processor in the middle of the floor. You are comfortable with Jimmy. Simple

stat. How many times has Jimmy or how many times as Andrew Wiggins had seven plus assists in a basketball game in his NBA career? 14. How many times did Jimmy have seven plus assists last year with the heat. 15. So like it's an entirely different stratosphere of playmaking talent that you plugged in there. You had a, you have a guy that can quickly process those situations. And they've been killing teams, Colin, so far, obviously small sample. They've been really good with Jimmy on the floor with Steph off, which is all that really matters. That's the key. I mean, when, I watched them two weeks ago. When Steph left the floor, not only were the inefficient, they were unwatchable. They were, they were a bad tell. I said this.

make the move to be a better TV product. You're terrible. Well, and like Pat Spencer, like the lacrosse story, it's really cool. He probably shouldn't be your like secondary ball handler in a Thursday night national TV game against the Lakers when Steph's off the floor. Like that's an issue. But I'm with you. Like I don't see the Warriors necessarily as a substantial threat.

To me, what's cool about it is we get to watch Steph play meaningful basketball again. Because I do think they're going to get out of the playing tournament. I do think they're going to end up getting at least a first round series. And that team's just going to be fun to watch. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news, news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it. one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title

for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion-dollar fraud.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. And now for our segment Hot Off the Press presented by our friends at Louisiana hot sauce,

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I love it. Okay, I'm going to throw a sneaky move at you that I liked. Okay. Kyle Kuzman is a weird player. You can get 30, and the next night you get seven. He's just always been an odd play. I don't think LeBron ever loved him. He's kind of all over the map.

But I really thought they should have moved off Middleton two years ago. And I think so much of being an NBA GM is figuring, seeing around corners, moving off guys a year early. I thought really good GMing was moving off Marcus Smart in Boston and getting Drew Holiday. I thought Marcus Smart, it was one thing for Jalen Brown to take off possessions, late in game. James from Tatum. It's another thing when Mark and Smart is doing it. It's like, okay, it's time to get him out of the building, right? And Jewel Holiday is a better offensive player to me, the Mark is smart. But Kyle Kuzmer to the box, I thought was kind of a sneaky good move. So Washington's abysmal. Everybody gets lost there. He's still in his prime athletically. He played a lot of years in college. So he's older than most people think. But Dames's playing better. Yannis is banged up a little bit. I looked at it and I I thought, okay, Boston's the best team in the East. Cleveland and New York are next. But I felt like the last year and a half, like I didn't even look at Milwaukee, like,

they were like a more functional Philadelphia. I just, I don't think they're athletic enough. I don't know. I look at Kuzma, Dame, Janice, Brooke Lopez, I'm like, they feel like they could be a pain in the butt. It feels like they could be, you know, you talk about unenturable things. been good in big pressure games. Yonis is a hard matchup.

They feel more athletic with Kuzma. Am I reaching here? I kind of feel like at the trade deadline, it was almost like last year when Dallas goes and gets PJ Washington, everybody's like, yeah, yeah, PJ Washington. And about 10 games in here, like, oh, shit, they're big. That's kind of a problem. I thought Kyle Kuzma was a sneaky pickup.

I liked him too. There was an obvious question mark, which is he's been in Washington playing. loser ball for the last like for the last like three, four years. And that was that was why all the bucks fans were concerned. And like they were like, we're trading Chris Middleton, a guy who's hit huge shots for us in the postseason over the years for a guy like Kyle Kuzma. And you know, and I heard that and I wanted to be like, then what did you trade for Dame for? Like that, like, yeah, you needed Chris to hit the game winner in game seven against the Nets. But that was when you had

Drew Holiday as your point guard. You have Dame to help you with that. Yannis is a better offensive player than he used to be. One of the things that was really interesting about Kuzma's development is he was kind of the same. same player in Washington that he was his early years with the Lakers. But then what happened was they get LeBron, they get Anthony Davis. All of a sudden, they're playing a lot of two big lineups. So A.D.'s playing the four. And LeBron's playing the three. And there's just not minutes for Kuzma. And so he had to, he had to claw his way into the rotation. And the way he did was he became an excellent defensive rebounder, an excellent help side defender, an excellent

cutter. He just became a guy who did a bunch of dirty work. And that's been the most encouraging thing in the three games that I've watched him so far with Milwaukee. He's immediately doing that stuff. I'm watching him against Philly, like, fronting the post against him beat and battling for loose balls and getting contested rebounds. And you talked about the chaos and his scoring. And that's real. But one of the weird things with Kuzma is NBA dudes respect him as a score. So they cover him.

He's had, he's had 25 games in his career. You're like, Kuzma's got 29 points. Like, what? Yeah. He's had like 90-something, 25 plus point games in a lot. 11, 30, 35 plus point games. He's a crazy offensive player. Yeah, and I'm already seeing him.

Like, when he pump fakes on the perimeter, dudes are chasing him off the line. So, like, he has offensive utility that goes beyond just his efficiency. But where I get excited about it is, like, because Chris Middleton's shot making is less valuable in the context of Dame, you go from having a three,

a small forward rotation with Chris and Torian to thin, like, older forwards that don't rebound in art great athletes, to a dime. dominant rebounder who's huge and young and moves well. And now I look at it in the context of Janus, because Janus hasn't been playing, he's been resting this calf.

He'll be back after the All-Star break. Yeah. When you put Kuzma next to Janus and Brooke, there's a force multiplier effect. Going back to the beating the dead horse with this like presenting a problem that teams can't handle. That's right. The bucks are going to be a monster rebounding team.

And they're really going to protect the paint well. And that is going to present a problem for teams. And again, I think you're obviously giving. up a little bit of just that surgical half court stuff that you get with Chris. But let's not overthink this. He was 12 and a half points a game this year. He's not the same player.

That's right. This is a clear talent ad and you've fundamentally altered the physical profile of your front line by bringing him in. Yeah, it's funny. I always said if I didn't do what I did for a living, I'd love to be an NFL GM. In the NBA, you could do that. Like, you watch, I mean, I watch preseason football. Like, it's just, it's a reality of what it is.

But in the NBA, sometimes I think we overthink analytics, and I'll pivot back to the Lakers. So I always use this argument is, I think the smartest team I've ever seen in my life was the Miami Heat when they had Badierey, Ray Allen, Udonis Haslam, Chris Bosch, LeBron, D. Wade, Mario Chalmers drove me crazy. It's like he didn't fit. But the rest of those guys were like really sort of, it's, it's, it's. They're smart players. Like, yeah, and it's like beyond smart, self-awareness, situational awareness. And I remember that Miami team, Jason, Joel Anthony was a six-nine center. They had no true point guard.

LeBron and Dee Wade are both like, at the time, streaky shooters, hyper-athletic, need the ball to be dominant. And I remember when they put it together, I'm like, the hell is Bosch is the best shooter outside of Ray. I was like, I don't even know what this team is. They were so smart. They were so good. They fed off each other.

There was no egos. It was like LeBron was just so damn happy to play with another elite player after all those years in Cleveland. And it was just a force of optimism. It was a force of intellect. I loved watching them play. I think they're one of the weaker dominant teams of my life. They didn't have a dominant big.

They didn't have a point. It was just like smart dudes understood. spacing the floor. And I think D. Wade is really a key component in that. He understood very early. Oh, wow. LeBron's really good. I'll be in two.

I'm totally happy. I don't need to be the ace on the staff. By the way, a lot of guys struggle with that. D. Wade's smart. It's like, no, no, no, I'm good. I'll step back. It's my city. It's his team.

And I think sometimes we get too caught up in that. Like Dremont, really smart basketball player. Jimmy Butler, really smart. Curry, really smart. In the end, these games, remember, when you go to the playoffs, you're playing the same team. Everybody knows your little tricks. They all become circumstantial. They're all situational. Huff court, like, Houston's not going to run like that in the playoffs. You're not going to get that 12 points a game you get because you're young, athletic, twitchy, you run. You're not going to get that stuff. So I don't know. I just, when it comes to NBA teams,

Like right now I look at the Lakers and I'm thinking, Jesus, Luca and LeBron are really big brands, self-aware, very secure. I don't know. I just look at the Lakers differently today. I think they're a different team. I mean, Austin Reeves, it's a bunch of guys. They all kind of have the same game, different levels of it. They want the ball. They like the ball.

But when I watched them last night, I'm like, everybody is completely secure in who they are. There's not going to be any struggles with this team. I don't know. Maybe I'm too optimistic on being an L.A. Homer. But there is value, and I know I'm being long-winded on this, there is value on smart guys playing basketball and enjoying watching other people succeed. That's a thing, right? to your point, the playoffs are so much about problem solving.

Like, okay, we're having trouble with this coverage. What are we going to do? We're having trouble with them running this action. What are we going to do? And you just put enough smart minds in a room and they can figure it out. And, you know, I think there's a little too much being made of the center position. You know, even as I'm looking at some of the stuff with the centers that were being thrown out there, I want to be like, okay, this center might be your seventh or eighth best player.

I don't want my seventh or eighth best player playing 20 minutes in a playoff game. He's a guy who should be barely seeing the floor. And I think one of the things that makes me optimistic on the size front is like, Luca is 6-9, LeBron is 6-9, Dorian Finney Smith is 6-8, Ruey's big, 6-9, Jerry Vanderbilt is 6-9. Yeah, this is not small ball. They're small, but they're huge. Like, it's a bunch of huge perimeter players.

And like, I imagine a scenario in the playoffs where it all goes down where it's, it's Austin-Lebron-Luca, where Austin's your small guy, but then it's 6-9-6-9. And then it's going to be two of Vando, Rui, or Dorian, Finney Smith, who are both six nine, or all six nine rangey forwards. And so, for example, look at Oklahoma City. So, like, Oklahoma City is really good, but it's like a lot of six, five, and six, six guys. So, like, there's, even though they will present issues with their bigs in that series, like Chats a problem, Isaiah Hartmanstein's a problem. The Lakers are going to have four inches on every single matchup in that series that's on the perimeter, which is something to at least account when you're talking about this sort of thing.

and that's where I look at the problem-solving piece. Like, LeBron, you know, we talk so much about Kevin Durant being a plug-in-play guy. And for the record, I think he probably still is the best plug-and-play guy. But LeBron's a plug-and-play guy, too. It's like you mean the guy who can defend and can rebound and can run. He can run action, but he can also screen. He can shoot when he's in spot-up situations. He can play out of the post.

Like, LeBron can just shape-shift into whatever your team needs. It's like the other night against Golden State. He has 17 rebounds in a game. You know why? because it's like we don't have a center. So tonight I'm just going to grab every damn rebound. Like that's just what I'm going to do because that's what the team needs me to do. And so when I look at that group, it's just there's a lot of like kind of Swiss Army knives in that group.

And I think that that goes a long way towards kind of like problem solving the types of things that you're going to run into in the postseason. And as matter of fact, even when it comes to the center position, the only thing I really concerned, the only thing I'm concerned about is Yokicch. Like they don't have anybody that can even come remotely close to bothering Yolkich. We talked about this on the show. J. Mack and I talked about this today. I'm like, Yok is just scoring 45 of points in the series. Like, just bake it in, pick on Jamal Murray's defense, like whatever, but he's going to score 45. You just have to come to terms with it.

Yeah, I agree. The only reason why I'm waiting to watch more Lakers basketball before I come to any sort of conclusion is, like you mentioned, Denver can struggle to guard. And that means they're definitely going to struggle to guard the Lakers because everyone's, going to struggle to guard the Lakers. And two, this is not the 2020, 2020, uh, 20, 23 nuggets where they had Contavius Caldwell Pope as like this shoe in fifth guy.

It's going to be a lot of like Christian Brown or Russell Westbrook seeing minutes in the postseason. And those are guys that I think J.J. Reddick's going to be like, that's not contavius called Bob Pope. We can help off of him. Now Denver's going to find ways to score. They're going to score a lot of points in that sort of matchup. But I, I am curious to watch.

They play in like a week and a half. And I'll be really. interested to watch that game, mostly just to see how effectively they can break down Denver's defense. Because JJ's going to have plans. He's going to have things that he can try to get to get the ball out of Yokic's hands. But that's an interesting matchup there. And like it's a classic example of styles make fights. And I don't know about you, Colin, but if we look at last year in the Western Conference, that was a matchup playoff series in every single round. It was like, oh, Denver couldn't handle Minnesota, but Minnesota couldn't handle Dallas. I think Denver probably beats Dallas.

You get matchups here or there? That's right. What if Denver ends up at the four seed because the Lakers pass them at some point in the regular season, now Denver's got to get through OKC in round two before they even see the Lakers. So that's where that's where it gets into one of these situations where you can't write any of these teams off because they could catch a matchup and lose early. You know, a team that's, I think the NBA has always been better when the Knicks are relevant in between Backel Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Kat, Josh Hart, OG. it's a really good basketball team. But they do not match up with the Celtics. And this is where you're really good.

I mean, I've watched them play the Celtics twice, and that shit's not competitive. Like, it does not work. Now, it's almost like the Celtics have circumvented the NBA's CBA. The NBA, CBA, they don't want you to have like five really good players. And it's almost like the Celtics figured out a way to be the last team. that can have a roster that you're not supposed to have anymore, where Derek White's your fifth best guy some night.

And now they're trying to sell the team so someone else has to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah, like, it's like they're almost circumventing the new CBA. Like, this is not really fair. And you can tell. So I think New York's a really good basketball team. And I think I trust them in the playoffs. I think they're smart.

I think they've got, you know, it's well chronicled. They're kind of got a Villanova feel. They play hard. They're smart. I think they're one of those teams that will be a better playoff team than a regular season team, and they're a good regular season team. There are teams like Houston, I think, are a better regular season team than a playoff team. The Knicks are going to be fine.

But I watch them now twice play Boston, and I want you to break it down because they don't match up. And this is a good team. Let's just be honest about this. They got five to six guys in that rotation. The Knicks can match up with almost every team in the league. Why is Boston? And you can tell Boston, like when they played this past week, that's a national TV game. They're like, okay. All right, guys. I mean, that thing was, I mean,

four minutes in, you're like, yeah, yeah, Boston came to play. Boston's not effing around. Why doesn't new, because I think New York has enough different players and they play hard enough and they're really smart and they're well coached. They kind of match up with everybody. They do not match up with Boston. Like, what is it? So there are two kind of prevailing theories in NBA offense right now, which is like, matchup hunting versus like running motion. And the motion is like what you see with the Warriors. There's tons of screens.

Guys are running in circles all over the floor. Boston's like, where's your weakest defender? Let's get them up here. Let's play some basketball. And like that's literally all they do. And when I watch that game, the way they surgically attacked Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns every single time down the floor,

they'd get them both in. They'd bring the ball up the floor. They'd have Jalen Brunson's man come screen for Tatum. Okay, now Jalen Brunson's on Tatum. Okay, now we're going to get cat into the action. So now it's like Tatum and one of his teammates attacking Kat and Brunson in the same action. And there's just nothing they can do about it. The Knicks are really, really good.

They can score whenever they want. They get out and transition like crazy. They've got all these good players that are super bought into their roles. Fun to watch. They're super fun to watch. And they have beat the shit out of some good teams this year. But every time I've watched them against Boston, it's the exact same issue. We are going to get Carl Anthony Towns in space and make him guard.

and just get right past him and then spray out and get great shots and beat you. It's actually kind of funny, Colin, because you can tell that they really want to beat the Knicks because the Celtics have played some pretty bad basketball in the middle of the season where they're not deliberate and where they do take bad shots and they settle and they don't do the things they need to do. They see the Knicks and they like snap back to the playoffs last year and they just get surgical in the way that they pick on those guys. But it really just comes down to they go at New York's worst defenders every single time and then they play driving kick out of it to get great shots.

And that really is the issue. And then Jalen Brunson, he just has this wall of athletic, bigger defender every single possession as it goes down to the other end. It's like, here's Jalen Brown, here's Drew Holiday, here's Derek White. He's just, it's such a difficult job for him to consistently break down that Boston defense because they just have so many different defenders they can put on them. Yeah, it's interesting to say that because I really like the dexterity of the Knicks. I think they're a matchup problem. Carl Anthony Towns is offensively gifted. He's shooting threes like right now, like the best he's ever.

I mean, he's really shooting the ball well. He's quirky. I've seen him play live four times, and there will be halves. You're like, is he a top 10 player in the league? Like, he can destroy people. He can embarrass people. And then in the second half, you'll be like, did he take a sweepade? Did he have a Therafluid half?

Like, what happened? But it is interesting you break it. And I'm so glad for our audience listening, Jason is so good at this. And that's why I just foisted it up to him. I've watched them play twice as Celtics, and shit is not competitive. They just do not match up at all.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing. a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action.

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I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, the NBA is a funny league where the NFL sort of separated from everybody.

For a lot of reasons, our society is so distracted now, the TikToks, the platforms, the iPhone. So regular season games, when you play like hockey or baseball, it's really hard NBA. it's really hard college basketball to get ratings Monday through Friday. So college football, UFC, the NBA, the World Cup, they have big advantages. They feel like events. We're more of an event. This Netflix has figured this out. We're more of an event culture now than a Monday through Friday, right?

And we're just more distracted. But I will say this about the NBA. And I think they may not have their best players in the best markets. But Luca going to L.A., Jimmy Butler to San Francisco. The Knicks are fun to watch. So is Boston. And I think it's bigger than people think. The Aaron Fox to Wemby, baseball had a massive resurgence last year.

And let's not try to overthink this. It's because Bryce Harper's in Philly. Aaron judges in New York. The Dodgers are an all-star team. The Mets are really good. Like all the really good players are almost all in the right markets. I thought it was not just a good week for the NBA. They repositioned their players.

Wemby is the next superstar. Oh, Deeran Fox goes to him. Luca to L.A. The Knicks are really fun to watch. Boston's outstanding. And by the way, it's okay to have an OKC. That's nothing wrong with that. But it's like, I don't know.

And it's easy to beat the NBA up. And it is, baseball is an agent run sport. Basketball is a player run sport. NFL is sort of an executive run sport, which is the life that most of us can relate to and live in. I thought it was a substantial, like honestly, if you're Adam Silver and you could have pulled levers, you would have wanted Butler with Steph. You would have wanted Wemby to get a 25 point guy.

From your perspective, you watch the NBA regardless. I thought it was the best 10 to 14 day period the NBA has had in five years, seriously. Oh, 100% agree. I found this to be so fascinating in Colin because, you know, first of all, I'm a diehard basketball fan. And so when I hear people talk about the NBA in a negative light, I'm like, I get defensive. I'm like, no, we're good. Just please watch. It's going to be interesting.

I promise. And it's like when everyone was talking about all the stuff early in the season, there were all these different prevailing opinions. And that for the record is what made it interesting, as no one knows. No one knew why the ratings were down. And I was kind of keyed in on the concept of urgency. I kept thinking like, what was the difference between like 1998 when Michael Jordan was playing in right now? And the difference is there's just thousands of months. options, both on your TV and on your smartphone. It is in much more competitive space. And I still think

that that is the primary barrier between the NBA and like getting real consistently great ratings. That said, like, what really dawned on me in the last week as NBA interest skyrocketed. And even though the NFL is going to be just fine, there was a little bit of a stagnant kind of stretched there in the last couple of weeks where it's like, here are the chiefs again, here are the Eagles again. It's kind of the same storylines. Okay, yeah, Taylor Swift, what we talked about all that last year.

It was like kind of a little bit stagnant. And what dawned on me, Colin, is I think the NBA screwed the pooch a little bit with this latest CBA by restricting player movement so much. It was a, it was a problem where it became the only thing the NBA was, where all we talked about was players moving. And you don't want to go that far. But the truth of the matter is, is a good amount of the intrigue in the NBA. comes down to player movement.

That's right. And it's been like that my whole life. It keeps things fresh. I told Adam Silver this when he joined me. I said, Adam, you guys are too worried about this. I find the Warriors boring when steps off the floor. I'm now going to watch them play. I already have watched them play.

Player movements front. The NFL figured this out. They move their free agency period. They're like, people like this stuff. It's fantasy football. I think, listen, the NBA has always been a little concerned. concern with tanking. But I do think sometimes the NBA worries about problems that are just natural and authentic

and organic and it's okay. Like people like trade. They like trades. Take out LeBron. The truth is even KD's player movement outside of the Warriors. It hasn't made the league unfair. One of his moves was great. The last two haven't done anything.

Yeah, they almost always don't pan out. It's kind of hilarious. It's like, who's going to be the next person to put all their. chips to the basket have some sort of, some sort of issue. But like, yeah, that's kind of the way that I look at. And I think part of it is they listen too much to certain owners. And you almost need to get those guys together and be like, look, I get it. Like when this happens and you lose your star, it can be a problem. But the flip side of it is, is like, we're all going to make a lot more money if there's intrigues surrounding the league. In an absence of urgency, we can make up for it with

intrigue. And again, you don't want to go too far. You don't want to get it to where it becomes a soap opera. But I thought it was like, Colin, it was like, everyone was so just like whatever about the NBA all season until the Luca trade went down. And then it's just, and it was almost like it it kind of like broke the ice in a way to where everyone was like, you know what, let's shake things up too. Next thing you know, you have six stars changing teams. You have all these new cores that you're looking at. It just became, it just, it just shook things up in the right way to. re-invigorate interest. And so from that standpoint, like, I do wonder if the NBA needs to take a look at a little

bit more balance between, like, you need to find a way to incentivize players staying with teams, but at the same time, make it possible for them to be moved. Because right now, it's too difficult to move them because of the apron rules and all these different things. And so, like, Colin, more players would have moved if it wasn't for the current CBA structure. Like when you have to match salaries, but you can't take in additional money, and now everyone needs a third team to eat up salary just to facilitate a deal. That's right. Like it just made it difficult.

And like everyone did it anyway. But like the point is, is I think the NBA kind of over indexed on stability. Yes. And now all of a sudden when you have stability without urgency, it just becomes boring. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's, it's funny about professional sports is people talk about parents. parody, but TV networks pay about 35% for all these leagues or more. They don't want parity. Fox doesn't give a rip if they have to televise the Eagles every week and never the Panthers.

They don't care. It's like the reality is the NBA partners at Amazon, NBA, ESPN, Amazon, and NBC. If eight to ten teams are fun to watch, then those are the teams you tell. Like Fox, we're going to televise the Padres, the Dodgers, the Mets, the Yankees, maybe the Braves, because they're so big in the South. And that's about 65 to 75% of the games you televise. We don't, we're not beholden to televising the Mariners. You know, it doesn't matter. And the NBA is not, you know, ESPN doesn't have to televise Sacramento. So I agree with you is that don't people like deals.

I think what's happened in our society is that as we're more distracted, it takes more to grab our attention. But basketball at its core, I mean, at its core is a fun watch. It's it has many things that are really good. It's driven by stars. It's got egos. It's got rivalries. It's got a hierarchy. It's cool. You see celebrities. games. There's a lot of things that, you know, baseball had a very good season, but baseball is long. The pacing is slow. Celebrities don't go to games. The season is twice the NBA. There's a lot of things with baseball that in the current sort of societal structure and how we're built now don't work. That's why speeding the game up was so important. Basketball's always had certain things. Young people like it. It's the culture. Their shoes. It's star-driven.

key is, can you get the stars moving around a little bit? Can you hopefully get them in your Bostons and your L.A.'s and your Chicago's and your New Yorks and Phillies? Yeah, markets kind of matter. But it reminded me, Jason, years ago, when before Obama became their presidential candidate, the Democratic Party was just sort of lost. And then all of a sudden a year later, after Barack Obama becomes president, you're like, wow, that party is. wrong. They are dominant. That is the smart party. It is amazing when Connor McGregor, as UFC is growing and growing, and Connor McGregor is this crazy talent. It's like, it just took UFC to a completely, oh, you've got to watch. Saturday night, Connor McGregor's fighting. John Jones is fighting. The truth is, the Lakers are good,

the Celtics are good. Jason, the league's good. I mean, seriously, San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Boston. Yep, league's going to be just fine. You got to think about the casual fan. When I think about the nut jobs like me that are going to watch the season, no matter what, we're not the people that you're trying to impress. And that really is the bottom line there. There has to be some intrigue. The NFL does it with urgency, and it's just so easy for anyone to watch the game and realize

one team is trying to move this way and the other team's trying to move this way. It's basically like 11 on 11 talk of war, if you really look at it. Basketball, it just, it needed this. And like, I can't even, Colin, I, Rob Polinka, after trading for Luca Dodgich, got through the deadline without a center and put all of his eggs in the basket of Mark Williams, who's played like a third of the basketball games

that he could have played in since he came into the league. Rob Polinka and Jeannie Bus had this not gone down, the Lakers probably would have spiraled for another day. decade. Yeah. It's hard for me to even quantify how much of a solid Nico Harrison and the Mavs did here for not just the Lakers, but for the entire NBA. Yeah.

Because they set the Lakers up for the next decade when they probably would have spiraled from here. It really is a remarkable turn of events. You know, let's finish with this. I had said this. I am not going to defend Nico Harrison. I'm not going to do it. But with the new Max deal, and because Luca, because of his all,

NBA and his experience qualified for like the top of the food chain. It was different when the max to LeBron was 38 million. And that still wasn't maybe as much as a great NFL quarterback. When the max now is 74 million annually, okay, I get owners saying he's not in great shape. He doesn't defend. He's missed the last two camps. He hasn't played since Christmas.

There's a duality to all this stuff. Yes, the stars will be paid more than Patrick Mahomes, like 30% more in some instances, 20% more. But I do get even billionaires going, okay, okay, okay. We've gotten to 75 million a year. You just say this out loud, doesn't defend, not in great shape, miss camp second time, hasn't played since Christmas, doesn't have a great work ethic, naturally gifted offensively. yet that doesn't sound like a $74 million employee. Like LeBron qualifies that. I mean, there's Wembe's.

There's got a handful of players. You're like, you just pay that, Steph Curry. But I do think is that when you get into a stratosphere where you're paid more than the highest paid CEOs on Wall Street. Like, there's a big difference. You're like, ooh, you know, guys making $35 million a year. That's insane money. $74 million a year. And it's like, yeah, he's missed the last couple camps.

It's played since Christmas. I do think, and you start looking at Kauai, you look at M-B'd. And then you look at NBA legends like Kobe and LeBron. There was a little bit of a Shaq quality with Luca where you're like, yeah, I know he's transformational. But the Lakers moved off shack. They moved off shack. And they talked about conditioning and commitment and playing defensively beyond block shots.

So I'm not saying it's a good job. I wouldn't have made the deal. But I think, Jason, when you start getting into $74 million, I get an owner going, and I got to pay five years of this. And I'm watching these like, I haven't played since Christmas. I kind of get it to some degree. Am I nuts? You're not.

I mean, the concept that you're talking. about, I think I've run into a lot as I'm looking at certain players. Like even I saw the Brandon Ingram deal today and I'm like, good God, 40 million a year for Brandon Ingram. I'm like, I'm like when he's healthy and in rhythm, he's good, but he's been that like 10% of the time over the last couple of years. That's right. That series against the sons in the first round a couple years back. He looked amazing. But it's like that's a lot of money to tie up. Jalen Brown. I like Jalen Brown. But there's some years at the end of his deal where he's making like $65 million. That's a lot of money to pay for some Jalen Brown. When he's regarded.

as the second best player on a team. Second most gifted. It's like, I like Jalen Brown. But I think fans are forgetting $65, $75 million. It's just, it's like Elon Musk. And I forget when this happened over the last couple weeks. It's like, didn't Denmark or something like reject his bonus? There was some story about people went, okay, you can't have a billion dollar bonus.

Like, we're not doing that. Like there's even among rich people, there are numbers that feel egregious. And I am going to look under the hood. And I'm going to examine everything. If Lucco is 48 million today, you just not worry about the defense. But barking at officials, not in shape, hurt, Mrs. Second Cam, hasn't played since Christmas, doesn't defend. I, I, there's part of me that just gets it.

There's a Shaq thing going on. I get it. Here's my one counterpoint. Shack was considerably older at the time. Yes. And in my opinion, there are five transformational talents in the NBA. Five talents that if you get this guy, everything you do is so much easier with team building. It's Yokic, it's Janus, it's Shagio, just Alexander, it's Wembe, and it's Luca.

To me, Luca's one of those guys, and he's 25 years old, even with the cap, like, they're, they're smoothing the cap so they don't have, so that they avoid the Kevin Durant situation in 2016. but the cap's going to go up like something crazy, like 10 million a year in perpetuity through the end of the decade as they wrap in all this new TV money. So like even in the context of team building, I think like even if Luca was taken up 75 million in my cap,

but I think I can get a payroll up to 180, 190 within a couple of years, I feel like I like my chances building around Luca. And so like even though I agree with all things you said, Colin, I made sure to say this in my show after the trade. Like I was super critical of Luke. after the finals. We talked about it. It was the worst defensive performance I've ever seen from a star in the finals.

His conditioning is embarrassing. For the record, one of the things I'm excited about is I think LeBron, you can see it in his body language. I think LeBron is trying so hard to set an example for him. He's on Instagram and his hyperbaric chamber. He's hustling around on defense like he's never done it in his life. LeBron is trying to set this example for Luca because he knows the potential that is there. But this is all I would say.

He's fat. He's chubby and he's slow. But he was fat and slow in the playoffs last year. And he absolutely obliterated the Minnesota Timberwolves and got within three wins of the trophy. Like at a certain point, I'm like, let's not overthink this. Even though I agree with everything you're saying, I just think Luca was worth a risk. Yeah. So it's called Hoops Tonight.

It's Jason Timp. I think he has the ability to break down games and film as well as anybody that does this. and he's going to become, as we know when football season ends, we do a lot more with Jason. It's always great to see you. I've got to be honest, I have been really, I had a stomach virus. I've been staying away from the rocks, but I just had one, and I'm going to have another one when we sign off.

Hit the spot? That really did. I can be a little blurry tonight. I got to watch it. What game is tonight? What are we got tonight? Oh, man, I haven't even looked at the slate yet. I would imagine that several more.

new trade guys to watch. Grizzly's Sons, that's a fun one. Nick's Pacers, that's a fun one. All right, there we go. Good to see anybody. Good to see you too, man. Looking forward to the rest of the season. Hey guys, it's us and the Jonas Brothers.

I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it out. We get to ask people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being and ask questions. Well, sick and tired of strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.