The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Mahomes "Reminds Me Of MJ", Clippers Could Win It All, NFL Is “Shrinking” The NBA, Fans Want Sports Not Politics

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Colin is joined by Ryen Russillo, host of “The Ryen Russillo Podcast” at the Ringer! They give their assessment of Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl, how he makes it look so easy, and Colin says the only comparison he can think of is Michael Jordan (3:00) They give their take on the Super Bowl being in Vegas and swap Vegas stories (10:15). They debate whether the star-studded LA Clippers could win a championship this season (21:00) and the element that’s lacking from Jayson Tatum’s game when compared to the NBA’s other great scorers (25:00). They talk about how the NFL juggernaut has managed to “shrink” the NBA (30:30) and what changes they’d make to try to help the league catch up. (34:30) They compare notes on the differences between podcasting vs. broadcasting (42:00) and why fans want escapism when watching sports… not politics (50:00). Finally, Colin present Ryen with his real-life “Larry David” type of dilemma in a grocery store (59:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ryan Rosillo's about ready to stop by. We're going to talk about a variety of things. Before we start with Ryan, it's going to take you about 30 to 45 seconds. Download the Game Time app. That's Game Time. Grab your smartphone. You know what to do. next the Game Time app. If you want to go to a basketball game, check out the Game Time app. Use the name, Colin C-O-L-I-N. That would be me, and you'll get $20 off your first purchase. You want to go to sporting events, theater, comedy, whatever you want to do. It's the Game Time app. Here's what's great. Not only can you use it for an event right up to Game Time, but an hour after the game time starts, meaning you're a little late. You get off work. You want to go watch.

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shit. But I do like talking to him because on my podcast, we can talk about stuff. Look at first thing he does a show the gun show. I mean, fuck, I got no shot here. I know it sounds, you'll remember this. So I always worry, you know, overreaction Monday, recency bias. I'm emotional. I watch these games. I get so key. And I can, you and I could sit and talk for an hour about a game and you and I have had beers. And we're just like, it's like we're doing a show, right? Because we love what we do. But I remember years ago, you'll remember this. Randy Moss goes to the Patriots. He's there a couple of years. It's very successful. Monday night game against Miami. They don't freaking target him. and I went on the air the next day on the espion.

I said, he's out. Time out. You don't have Randy Moss and not target it. Now, you could target him 11 times with two completions. It could be the weather. It could. He's out. And I remember at this point, I was still like reading emails and people are like,

recency buy. Two days later, he was gone. And I'm like, sometimes it's not recency buys. You're seeing shit. And I remember that because it was like, You couldn't guard Randy Moss at that point. You literally couldn't guard him. You had to roll coverage over.

You could put Revis on him. It didn't matter. He got open. And I'm watching about two weeks ago. I'm watching three weeks ago, I'm watching Mahomes. And I saw it again Sunday. And it reminds me of MJ. And I said this three weeks ago, I said, I think that's the best football player I've ever seen.

And one of the things I remember this with Michael Jordan years ago, I was, I was on the couch at the time with a young lady. It was Vegas years ago. And it was the Phoenix Chicago series, Barclay, M.J. And she was a basketball player, so she really loved the sport. And I said, there's 50 guys in this league, Michael, as tall as Michael, as slender. He's not the best shooter or the best ball handler. I said, you should be able to duplicate that. Nobody can.

I'm like, he makes it look like so easy. I said, even the great players. Barclay, you could tell when he shifted gears. Clyde Drexler, you could tell, Kobe's shifting gears. Michael would be like, he'd get these beads of sweat in his head, and you're like, yeah, I think he shifted gears, that Michael was so effortless when he would flip the ball over his head when he was foul to do. And when I watch Mahom, I'm like, is he playing 80% speed?

This is not, I can tell when Josh Allen and Lamar are trying. And I don't think it's overreacting. I've never seen anything like Mahomes. never seen it. I haven't. You still think, look, he's, what he's doing at the position, because, you know, we can talk about players and then the resume, because we get really good at counting and you start adding it all up. It appears, especially with the throwing angles and all that stuff that he's more gifted at physical thrower of the football than Brady, but you don't have some of the same feelings that

you had about Brady, where Brady in those big playoff spots when he dropped. back you just went oh like he he knows he's elevated his risk he knows what he has to oh they're not protecting he doesn't have to be getting open on the outside right like i i would see brady in these games decide hey these are the things that aren't going my way now i'll adjust to those in a way that i think it's a pretty short list of people that i think are even on that with him so i i felt like brady was a math he beat everybody at the math that Tom could go to the line of scrimmage, and he just did math, and he knew what you couldn't defend. He always had a very good possession guy, Dion Branch, West Welker, Edelman.

He almost always had a good tight end. Dante Scarnacchio, run game O line. He had protection. I felt what Tom was doing, and this is not a knock, it was like chess. Tom was a math expert. He would go to the line. He knew what was coming. You couldn't throw anything at him. With Mahomes, he had a run in the Super Bowl where he ran late. It may have been always. overtime, fourth quarter, he cut through the D line and sprinted. And there's something cognitively beyond math that his, like, he can do the math too. There is something about his ability to see something and the ball is out of his hand quicker than anybody I've ever seen.

That it's brain function into ability and to release. It's like Marino plus Tom. Oh, yeah. he runs better than both. It's just, I watch him and I think it looks like, it reminds me of Jordan. I'm like, is he playing at 70% speed? Well, yeah, I feel like I'm, I'm disagreeing with you by just pushing back on that. We've never seen anyone have this composure throughout a game when I watch Brady do it for 20 years.

But when you want to talk about his ability in the moment, he's a, he's a basket. Like, the reason I've always loved basketball is that, if you're really that good, you just figure out a way. You just figure out a way. Like, it's five on five. And, you know, you can double team me, but I got to get rid of the ball, then I'm going to come back to it. And within the shot clock, like, I got to figure out a way to make this shot. Because nobody great gets double team to the point.

It's like, hey, that guy, he had zero points to the fourth quarter of a playoff game. Like, you find a way once all the plays are understood and everything's breaking down and the other guy who can't shoot, throws it back to you. And you have it with seven seconds off on the shot clock, huge possession game seven. you have to find a way. You're not relying on whether or not an infielder was positioned correctly or if the pitcher had it or didn't have it if you're the cleanup hitter. You know, like that's so codependent. And even though football's the ultimate team sport because of all the moving pieces, like there's just so many other things that have to go into you making it work.

And Mahomes has felt like the best basketball player. Like he's playing football like a basketball player where I thought that game against San Francisco was incredibly hard for him. Watching the beginning of that game, that first half, I'm like, oh, he's playing. The San Francisco D-line has shown up now in a way they did not show up against Green Bay or Detroit. They're up for this. They're amped. He doesn't have guys that can win on the outside here. You know, where's Kelsey?

Okay, there's a little bit here there. They're running right up the middle with Pacheco and this Niners defense that was supposedly susceptible of that was shutting it down for a good chunk. And it didn't look like he was comfortable. And then we saw that stat where they've gone 17 straight possessions in the playoffs going back to the Baltimore game into the San Francisco game without a touchdown. Right. And yet you're like, he'll. figure it out. That's right. And he did. I mean, it's, it's, it's got to be incredible. You want to talk about sports fandom jealousy right now? I mean, how could anyone be higher than the Chiefs fans?

Like, there's no one that you'd be more jealous of knowing that that guy's there going to be there a long time. And I agree with you that it feels like this one guy that can control a game where it's not supposed to be one guy that controls it. Basketball, it's supposed to happen. Football, it's not. So, anyway, we were talking about something. in his gorgeous condo. We were talking about something here. So I did Vegas for Seoul out of college. I was very, very lucky, very lucky.

And I didn't have, I didn't make any money forever. But my first job was Vegas. So I got mob Vegas. I got Tark Vegas. I got Tyson Vegas. Now it's so corporatized. It's so boring to me. I go to Vegas and people like, oh, I love these corporate casinos.

And I'm like, I saw Tony the Ant Spalotro at dinner. I'm not interested in your Vegas. So your interpretation of. what you saw in Vegas. I like Miami. Miami is my Super Bowl site because I didn't do it much as a kid. I don't know it. It's lively.

It's beautiful. I love Miami. Think Phoenix is overrated too many spots. What did you think of Vegas? Phoenix is a little too spread out, but Scottsdale is fun because you feel like you're not necessarily in a Super Bowl town, even though, look, when the Super Bowl is in town, it's going to take over most things. New York City was still one of the most amazing Super Bowl destinations because you just couldn't

even tell it was there. Exactly. New York City. You couldn't. No. I went out one night and I'm like, the United Nations was there. And I'm like, Super Bowl might as well been the holiday bowl. Nobody cared.

It was like jarring to just realize what New York City is prepared for. And even with Vegas, that really can do this probably as well as anyone. It's fairly convenient. But that Saturday, when I was leaving, I was like, get me out of here. because it was a lot. I mean, I've never seen a Super Bowl destination taken over like when Philly played New England in Jacksonville about 20 years ago. That was just a bunch of frustrated young white guys

pounding the shit out of each other at dive bars because they couldn't get it anywhere. That's bad. So that was maybe one of the roughest scenes I've ever seen. But Vegas is, you know, really, it's funny when people say like it changes. And I know that's what you just said. But my buddies do that. I be like, oh, Vegas isn't the same anymore. I'm like, you're not the same.

You're different. Right. So if you wanted to do the stuff that you did when you were 25, you could. It's just not appealing to you anymore. So I've been there three times in the last four months, which is a lot, you know, to be there that often. I hadn't been going there that often in a while. I kind of have my routine down. I love it.

And look, as we get older, the fact that we can have friends in the business that we may not see, except for that once a year stretch during the Super Bowl, I'm in favor of it, despite your downgrading of what it was. But your experience is completely different than the rest of ours. Because none of us have actually lived there like you did. Yeah, and I'm not downgrading. I'm just saying, and you make a good point. When I was there, you know, I was broke, I was fresh, I was single.

There was mobsters. I tell people, it's a true story, opposed to the ones I just make up. But this is a true story. I go to Vegas. I drive there in my AMC Pacer out of college, almost breaks down in Fresno and Bakersfield. So I get over there. And so the first afternoon, I check, I can't afford much. So before I meet my new bosses, I get a job at a college, I go to the circus circus,

and it was the cheap room. It was like, you know, $6 buffet, $19 room. So they didn't have cell phones back then, right? So I go and I pull a slot. I kid you not, Ryan. I go down, pull a slot. first pull. First pull.

$75. Now, that was a lot 35 years ago. So I'm one of those people. I'm good at quitting stuff. I stopped. I was like, I'm taking it. I only brought like $800.

So I call my mom later that night. And I'm like, mom, do not send money. I own this town. Do not worry about it. Ryan, as there six and a half years, I never won again a slot machine. First pool 75, five grand after that. Never won a nickel.

So there's my Vegas story. Do you have anything that's memorable in Vegas? What a metaphor for your career, though, like put in minimal work and then just... That is great. That is my career. I'm kidding. You grind. And that's why we like each other so much.

I mean, look, I have all the routine ones. Well, how about this? Why did you leave? Let me ask you this. Let's go back to your first stuff. You're a Boston guy. Boston guys are the most provincial guys in the world. Some of the best guys, but Jesus, they're provincial.

Like, they swear Boston's the best. Dunkin' Donuts is the best. What was the day that you said, shit, man, I'm going to go, I'm going to go to Denver. I'm going to go here. I'm going to go there. What was the day? day why i'm different in that i always maybe i'm i'm i'm so much about the grass is always greener that i'll just sit there and think like well if i just move somewhere else um i really always

wanted to try l a i don't know what it was it was i remember i told my dad when i was like a little kid i'm talking like a really little kid and that might have just been because i was in a motley crew at the time in like sixth grade where i was like i just want to see what this is like although that would have been horrifying to actually see it at that age. And then later on, like right after college, I remember just going like at some point I'm going to move out there. But then I didn't really know what I was going to do. I wanted to write before I wanted to be on the air or do any sports stuff.

So the first job I got was on the air, even though I wasn't really even trying to get on the air. And we've been over this, you know, like the minor league baseball. And so now I'm like stuck back on the vineyard. And for everybody that romanticizes, like where I'm from and all that kind of stuff, like to be there year round is rough. okay that's not that's not the brochures those aren't the crate and barrel people okay with the adirondack chairs right these are these are year round i'm not telling these like dangerous or tough but

it wasn't it wasn't like even close to what the perception is so when i'm there at 27 and i'm living in a cottage that isn't winterized because i'm fixing it up so that i could live there for free you know boston at the time was a huge improvement even though i was living in this like slum and Somerville with guys that I would say weren't exactly like mapping out their careers the way I was planning on it, that at that point, like, I could only go where I could afford to stay. So ultimately, from that point on, it took me 15 years to even get out to L.A. Even though I knew the entire time, I had to try it because I'd only lived in New England. I lived in Connecticut.

I lived in Massachusetts. I lived in Vermont. I lived in Massachusetts. And then I lived in Connecticut. And that was all the way up until like 42 years old. So I'm a bit more adventurous, I think, from other guys. But I also respect the fact that, you know, if you get along with your family and you're close and you're having kids and starting your own family, it can be an unbelievable. Like these suburbs of Boston that my friends are from from college and they're all close to each other and they're on the softball teams.

And they, you know, sometimes I think aspirations can drive you fucking crazy because then I'll look at that and go, hey, maybe those guys had it figured out because they weren't constantly thinking about exploring or the next thing. So I wouldn't do it any differently. You know, these, I know who I am at this point in my life, but there's something that I envy in, simple sounds like the wrong term because it sounds like a negative term, but just understanding like, I want to be near my family. I want to grow up where I grew up. I want my kids to grow up in the same place. I want my relatives coming over and all the cousins playing together.

I didn't care about any of those things. Right. And that's why I moved. Yeah, no, it's interesting. My wife is from Birmingham, Michigan, which is a person. Tony upscale, um, um, um, burb of towns and hotel, uh, of, of Detroit. And I remember the first time she went there, I was like, this is, this, I don't even, I can't even relate. I mean, it was so upscale. Now, she grew up, uh, child of divorce, you know, smallest house in this

gorgeous town. But I mean, you, you, I remember thinking when I left there, I was like, man, if I'd have grown up here, I would have been a sportscaster in Detroit. I'm not leaving. Like this is. We went there on a Friday night. And I told her, it was like beautiful shopping, condos. I'm like, this is it. Yeah, they're in a while.

That would kill aspiration. I grew up in a rinky, small, cold, you know, unemployment, 28% town. It wasn't aspiration. It was, there was no choice. There was no employment. Right. Right. Right.

Yeah. Right. Like being trying to get, I was at home sending out resume, letters to teams while I was working construction and coming home and staying at my parents' house, like making a sandwich and then going back out. Like I'd come back, make a turkey sandwich, check emails. Nobody was going to give me a job. And at that point, you're like, well, look, this is hard, but hey, where are you? Oh, I'm on Martha's Vineyard for the winter. Like, well, all right, well, then we can't do a lunch or we're not going to take. Like, even when I was in

West Hartford, in which I think you would agree, like, that's the job. And at that point with ESPN, it was, I don't care. This could, the Connecticut did. bother me at all. Where we lived, it was a nice era where we lived. I was kind of thought, like, I'd hear from people from other parts of the country, and I'm like, where, where the fuck are you from? Yeah. Carmel? Okay, you got it. But like, there's other places where I go, you think that place is better than this? Like, this is fine. Yeah. As a New England guy, like, I was totally fine with it, but it got to a point, too, where, and I think a lot, you would agree with this, there's just something about the energy of a big city, especially with

creators where you're constantly running into people that you're not running into in so many parts. And for some people, they want nothing to do with it. And again, I wouldn't judge anybody for it. Yeah, no, I mean, my wife and I love Chicago. I thought Connecticut was met really cool people and liked it. You know, speaking of that, let's pivot to this. So you and I go to a certain place. Don't, you know, the 900 Club in Manhattan Beach. So I ran into Chip Kelly a couple of times in the last month. So I had a pretty good inkling that, you know, and I, you know, and I, you know, I. offensive coordinator gig maybe in the offing. The second thing is I ran into Lawrence Frank. I sat down to have a cob salad and a beer because I just worked out and I thought,

eat clean, get home. Lawrence Frank is next to me, who runs the Clippers, really nice guy. And it was fascinating. Let's pivot to this. So as we kind of move into the NBA season, I told him, I said, Lawrence, I said, I know you don't listen to you're a busy guy, but holy shit, did I miss on this? I was like, this hardened thing, give me a break. Where's Westbrook going to play? the chemistry. And he was really interesting. He said, you know, at this point in James' career, shit, he wants to be coached and win. He got money. He got fame. He just wants to win games. I have watched probably six of their last seven games. And I don't know if I told you this. It is the most enjoyable NBA offense, in my opinion, to watch. Midrange, transition,

threes, multiple wing scores and defenders. I honestly think Boston and Denver and the Clippers, me feel different. The rest of the league. Now, the Clippers have some scoring on the bench. Celtics, Denver, don't really. But I've never said this in my life. A, I was totally wrong. And B, I do feel like the Clippers could win a championship.

I'm with you on thinking it could happen. But you're also telling me Kauai and Paul George are going to be healthy at the end of of the year, which has not been a good health bet. They're the worst health bet of any of the contenders. But I did a pod probably a week ago after watching him going, ridiculous stretch where you're like, okay, you know, this is, this is significant. We're talking about a 27 and 6 stretch, although by the time we're taping this, it was pretty alarming seeing Minnesota handle him so well in the second time they played him,

which, you know, there's some matchup stuff with that that had me thinking about, wow, you know, they really bogged them down. But yeah, look, Kauai has played at a level that's almost like Pete Kauai again. And he's been playing most of the season. Paul George, who we knew put up massive numbers, was one of the 10 most talented players. I thought he had a lot of playoff awards that were legitimate. I mean, he had an elimination game of Oklahoma City. It was terrible when they blew the 3-1 lead to Denver at the end of that. I mean, it was just bad.

So it was kind of like, hey, is he one of these guys? And I thought once everybody else was gone and they took out Utah a few years ago, and it was all on him and he had no choice. He had no one else to even defer to that. I think he's, I hope for his sake, that he's turned the page on that a little bit. But I was with the Unharden. I just didn't think he's somebody you'd want to get to business with. with. It had been the third team he had quit on, the fourth trade demand, which I don't really

blame him for the first one, because he wanted to make his money in Oklahoma City, wanted to pay Durant, Westbrook and Abaca. So that one didn't bother me. The end of Houston bothered me. The end of Brooklyn bothered me. And the Philly one, I mean, I thought he was very peak and in valley again in the playoffs when they needed them most, and they blow the three, two lead to Boston. and I shocked people with this because they know I don't really like him and I don't like the way he's officiated and all that stuff. None of it's really personal. I don't know the guy. Maybe he sounds like people love hanging out with him.

So he thought he was getting the big money, but he took $13 million less. And Philly's adamant that nothing was ever understood. And I'm always like, I don't know a lot of guys that just leave $13 million on the table without thinking the extension is coming to make up for it. He doesn't play well enough against the same. Celtics. That extension now is whatever was talked about, depending on who you want to believe. But when he had been traded finally, Colin, even though Lawrence Frank is telling you, hey, he wants to win and he wants to be coach. His first answer was, I want to go somewhere I can get paid. It just so happens to be a contender from an area that's close to where he's from and with an owner

that has the deepest pockets of anybody. And I think the lesson in all of this is that Hardin would have been super unappealing for a lot of other scenarios. where it's still a no for those teams. But credit to the Clippers, the culture, having the other guys established, he doesn't have to be the guy. He's probably going to get paid. And now that he's the third guy, he can have those playoff duds, which are all over littered throughout his game log in his playoff history,

where he could maybe even still have one of those, and it won't matter because the way the rest of the team is built. So you mentioned Boston, and we know your connection to that city. Yeah, I was getting into this, I think, a couple of weeks ago, my show. I said, you can really, you can really tell very early in a relationship with a friend or an athlete, people show their, you know, their strengths, weaknesses, their fears, their aspirations really early. And you see it with pro athletes. There's very few guys that develop into four years later a star. You can see early, the aspiration, the toughness, Michael's relentlessness,

Kobe's kind of selfishness. You read the Kobe stories when he broke into the league, he was shit-talking he was 19. And I said this about Jason Tatum. He's shown us who he is, absolutely gifted, top eight, nine player in the league. You can put him wherever you want. But there is an argument that he's not like aggressively relentlessly alpha. I mean, he's a dude. He wants the ball. But I've seen so many times where Jalen Brown, who's athletic as hell, but not as gifted, not as pure, will just take the ball. I saw Marcus Smart do it. And I keep saying to myself, I like Jason Tatum, but we, because he trained with Kobe or because generally the best domestic player in our country has that, that like almost selfishness. And I'm like, he doesn't really. He's told us

who he is. He can be a one, but he doesn't feel like the killer. Is that too broad? Or do you feel like, I mean, I feel like, come on, we're in what year six, year seven. I kind of know what he is. He's an A. He's a one. But there's a certain thing. I don't feel he has that grab the game by the throat thing that like Lucas showed me in year one. Kobe showed me at 19.

I don't feel that with him. Yeah, like I saw somebody breaking down Caleb Williams the other day and said he's not Patrick Mahomes. And I was like, okay. Like, should we add an extra episode of the podcast this week? What do you want me to do with this information? All right? If you're telling me, like, I look at that group of players that completely change who you are as a franchise and elevate you to the point where they're in their prime that you're contending for a championship.

You know, I love the draft. We start talking about some of these guys. I'm like, look, we're lucky to get one of these guys every five years. You know, but when it comes draft time, you're talking about, maybe this is the face of the franchise. Maybe this guy. Actually, that list is like this, you know, we saw top five all the time. I think it's Yokic.

I think it's Yonis. I think it's Yonis. I think it's Luka. I think it's Embed. And then I think everybody's kind of fighting for five again, whether it was Kauai for a stretch, whether it's Durant. And I think Tatum gets put into that group. And Tatum reminds me a lot of like your home quarterback, where people that don't watch

the quarterback you watch every week might like him more because you see some more of of the warts. So your criticisms are. but what you're asking him to be is like in that top four group and that might not happen. And when it comes to the toughness part of it, I think the Celtics get talked about like incredibly unfairly. They get talked about like they're the Sixers with their playoff failures. The Sixers can't get out of the second round. And the number of teams that would love the failures of the Boston Celtics with this group in the playoff, I think that's a pretty.

long list. And even though there are moments where I watch Tatum, and you're right, we're visual. So his personality seems more subdued, okay? Yes. You know, everybody wants every guy to be Kobe and fucking pulling their jersey and sticking their lower jaw out and honestly taking a lot of really bad shots, but it didn't matter. Like Kobe was the killer because he sold this on the image of him being a killer. And Tatum doesn't do that. But Tatum dropped 51 an elimination game against the Sixers, a set of Game 7 record last year. after Steph had said it previously at 50 against Sacramento. He had 46 an elimination game against the Bucks.

You know, they won a game seven at Miami. You know, look, I'm sorry they lost the finals. I still can't believe they lost the Miami Heat last year or three. But there's a lot of stuff there on the resume. Yeah. That tells you the thing you might be asking for, you might be right. It might be unobtainable for him. But, man, he's really close to that.

So I guess I just this isn't I think you know me like I'm whenever I hear about their failures or their lack of toughness. I go man, if they weren't any like if there was zero toughness. Right. They'd be losing some of these other series. You know, they lose the books a few years ago. Like the first two years I watched Andrew Wiggins. I went to some no, I mean, I went to three T-Wolf games in L.A. And I'm like, he had 26.

Don't remember a bucket. Not a bucket. Right. And I remember telling a radio guy from Minnesota, I know I'm like, dude, that's not it. That's not a one. That may be a three. I always feel Tatum's a one. He never disappears.

Like Wiggins, he was more visible with the Warriors. Tatum's a one, but he's not on that list that you're hoping he gets to. And we agree on that. Yeah. And I think that's fair. I think that's a good way to put it. You know, I was saying today on the show that, It's nothing against Kyle or Purdy or Garoppolo or Bosa.

It's just Tiger was the best in the world and he's going to win most tournaments. And Mahomes is just sick and it's nobody's fault. And I said this. I said, great shrinks very good. There's a lot of good streamers. Netflix shrinks all of them. There's a lot of good retailers. Amazon shrinks all of them.

There's a lot of good sports. I've never watched more sports. The NFL shrinks everybody. And I was saying the NBA feels niche. And the only thing I was talking to Nick right about that, and he loves the sport, and I do too. I now started about three weeks ago, I started really pivoting to watching a lot of NBA stuff. And I said, the only thing I worry about with the NBA is what's happening is hockey, baseball, and the NBA are incredibly global now.

And whereas the NFL's farm system is really easy. easy to follow. It's going to get even easier with the Big Ten in the SEC dominating. I watch a Buckeye for three years. I can't wait to watch Marvin Harrison and the pros. I can't wait to watch Caleb. J.J. McCarr. I can't. I know the story. I'm hooked to this stuff. But I said, what happens to baseball hockey in the NBA is I'm not going to follow an international farm system. So these great international guys, the best players, will go to crappy teams. I won't watch a ton of them for four years because no young player dominates the playoffs. And I said that I would. worry about. The NBA is always going to be interesting and star-driven, but it's becoming so global and so international. It's harder as the NFL is this domestic monster, this Amazon, this Netflix. I don't have a problem with silver. I like the players. aesthetically, it's a little three-point driven, but the playoffs get more situational in mid-range, so I'm cool with it. What do you make of that assertion that it just in America right now, it's like England. Everything is small compared to the EPL.

In Canada, everything's small to hockey. It's just there is no two. It's the NFL and then just find your lane. Well, the correlation you make between college and the pros, for those of us that love both Saturday and Sunday, like, I think we like prequels, right? As an audience, once we know about somebody, and that's a little different with television and movies, but in sports, we love prequels. It's why the F1 thing blew up, okay? Because now it's like, we, I never thought I'd be interested in this. but the television show was so good that now I know the backstory of every one of these guys.

It's actually easy to keep track of and it's very event driven. The inventory is limited. You're never going to get any owners in baseball to give up that six-month inventory. And I don't blame them, all right? You're not going to give up 82 games from NBA owners because even if it's a dud on a Tuesday and it doesn't pull a great number, it's still doing better because it's live and it still matters. And there's still people like, you're not going to go, oh, man, let's just have less games, less people come. coming through the turnstiles because that way we can make it more event-driven. Although I do think that Silver has done a really good job with, you know,

I don't love the playing tournament because I think there's certain years. There'll be a seed in there that has no business having to prove itself all over again with one extra game. You know, where a 10 seed is going to have an awful record. Now, granted, they've got to do more work by winning two. But that's an event. And he's been talking about this as it relates to the in-season tournament where the model of soccer of, like, yeah, we'll have the 82, but let's try to find a way to have something a bit more event-driven as another product that's drawing more eyeballs in. And I thought the in-season tournament was an absolute home run.

Now that everybody understands it, understands the way the pool system works and the point differential, which I hope stays, because that was actually really funny. I think he's trying to find a way to have more events in the basketball calendar because nothing can match the event status of the NFL. I mean, that being your goal is an impossibility because, you know, a lot of it just comes down. Look, people love the sport, but the inventory is so limited. Yeah. That's why you're driving these huge numbers. If the Super Bowl is best to seven, 125 million people aren't watching it yesterday or Sunday. Yeah.

Yeah, no, and I think I like the in-season tournament a lot. One of the things I've argued about, Daryl Morey's argued this. He says playoffs should be a one-game thing. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. A bad referee call shouldn't decide an NBA series. But I have said if I could tweak the NBA, I would go to a three-teamer first round, five the rest of the way, seven finals, create just a bit more urgency. So if the inferior team picks off a game one, you're like, shit, I have to watch this. I don't have a choice.

Even if I'm a casual, it's like my friends in New York are all watching it. We just upset the box. We're watching game two, period. I think that's about the only thing I'd tweak. You're not going to tweak the regular season much because a lot of these arenas have contracts with a game. That's what I mean. Like, I don't, you know, I just, oh, the season's too long. Well, you could just watch less of it.

You know, like, I just don't understand how a baseball person who may have loved baseball before but doesn't like it now goes, oh, there's too many games. Hey, everybody's to get the internet now. It's super easy. You pull up the standings. Hey, my team six out. All right. It's August.

Let's play some ball. Right. It doesn't, it's not really. And we're definitely more picky. We're more selective. We have more options. I mean, everybody understands this. but the single elimination thing for the NBA makes me laugh.

Because if I were Daryl Morey running the rockets trying to beat the Warriors, I'd probably be like, can we just play them once and hope the threes don't go down? Right. But you know what I mean? Like whenever I hear, we love fixing shit, though. Like Twitter has made everybody an expert on how to like, hey, here's this thing that's pretty good and everybody likes it. Here's my seven ways to fix it, a thread. And you're just like, we don't need it.

We're tweaking everything. Also, everybody, because of social media, has to have an opinion on everybody. I remember about a year ago, a Bill Maher show called, and they, hey, you want to come on the show? I said, sure. And they ran down these topics. And you got to have a big opinion on everything. And they're like, what do you make a transgender in sports? Pass.

I said, fuck if I know. I'm like, is it like, if I was a scientist, is it a testosterone level? Like if you test over this level, then you compete against men under it women. I'm like, first of all, I never think about it. I don't know the answer. Is it biology? Is it politics? And I'm like, I don't really have an opinion on it.

I'm not woke. I'm not avoiding it. I don't know. You get more woke, though. People have been asking. How woke? You haven't seen that treading? It's like, I just don't have an opinion on everything.

It's like I don't give a shit. Now, they used to do that with me on Sports Center, not Bill Maher. And they'd be like, hey, we're going to A-block, we're going to do, like, do you have a different way to do LeBron, MJ? I was like, I don't have any new ways to do it. I'm like, I haven't, I don't have a new one. I'm not going to have one for years. Get in on the action with the Draft King Sports Book and official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers who deposit $5 or more can get a no-sweat bet up to $1,000 back in Bonnet.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever

imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science, and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know, it's interesting about the pod business is that you're a broadcaster who's excelled at podcasting. A lot of podcasters are just podcasters, and they've never done radio, TV, but they're very good at it, they're loose. You really spend time on your pod. Like you, you prepare like a radio show and most podcasters kind of wing it. Some are funny, some are, but I can tell they're winging it. You attack it a little differently where it's like, it's almost like you take your writing skills and your radio skills and they converge and they meet it podcasting, where there's clear preparation, interview skills. Not everybody does it that way. I tend to, again, because I'm a broadcaster, not a podcaster. I'm a broadcaster who can do a pod, but I'm not, you know,

I have certain rules. I'm not going to go into certain places where some podcasters go. I'm like, I'm a broadcaster. I'm paid by Fox and I heart. Like, you know, and I don't, I think, you know, I mean, at the end of the day. Yeah. Good for you, by the way. Yeah. So I just, there's places I'm not going to go. But it is interesting because the podcast space and the gambling space. I always think about this. I think, you know, Europe's way ahead of us on gambling. I think we're probably in the fourth inning. Podcasting's fascinating because now older people at the gym will come up to me and say, it's all I listen to. I can't do the commercials or radio. And I'll be like, oh, you're 60. Like, you're 64 years old. Right. And this isn't an eight-year-old with a tablet

who doesn't watch TV, you know? Right. And it's so, and I was thinking about this, Like, everything's fluid in our industry. I don't even know if what I'll be on or where I'll be in what platform or if I will, who the hell knows what'll happen? I'll work somewhere. But if I said to you with podcasting, and I want to put your prediction hat on in five to ten years, I mean, remember, 10 years ago, I was told streaming would own everything. And all the networks have all the good games in football.

Like, they're not giving this shit up. There's too much. I mean, it's like the banks were too big to fail. networks are all built around the NFL. They're not giving this shit up without a fight. I'm sorry, Fox has an 11-year deal starts this year. They're not going away. You know, Tubi's making money.

Fox News, they're going to spend billions a year to get it, period. Do you think podcasting's in the seventh inning, the third, the fourth? You know it better than I do. Where do you think it's going? I don't know if I know it better than you do, because I'll admit, like, I didn't think it was going to take off like this because I still thought that people would want a live show. You know, I grew up as a live sports talk radio fan, not thinking I was.

ever really going to do it. And hell, man, I still listen to Sports Talk Radio. Yeah. So do I. I just like it. Same. There's guys I like. There's guys I think are hacks and I still listen to both.

Yep. Same. All right. Yeah. And I don't, that might just be a habit thing like both in you, you know, you and I've been around long enough like all, when we're working like local markets and stuff and they are trying to find a way to change the habit of the listener in that market and realizing it is.

It's the way baseball is on all these local stations because the people turn the baseball game off and then they wake up and then they're listening to the morning show on the station that they just turned off and they've listened to them for a little while and they're like, I'll just keep it here. So for podcasting to disrupt the pattern of behavior here for audio listeners. Crazy. And this short amount of time is incredible. And like people can make fun of everybody having one. And, you know, a line I use a lot with younger people is that, you know, back when you and I were getting started, the idea that somebody. would pick you and go, here's your money. Now go beyond the air. I'm the first person to say, it's okay. I'm going to give you this opportunity. It still feels impossible looking back.

And how I started was impossible. And I'm sure you have your moment. You're like, I can't believe this is happening to me because it's so incredibly hard. So I'll always tell people like, back then the line was longer, but it was thinner. Now the line is shorter. but it's really wide. Right. Because, I mean, think of, if I had told you at 25, hey, with the right program and with this new thing called podcasting, you can be on the air tomorrow. Now, now you get a sift through finding a way to people to pay attention to, which is his own challenge. So it's not a guaranteed thing of success, but at least you can actually do the act.

You can do it. So when people look at how flooded it is, I think it's like a lot of things. Like, yeah, it's easy to do. but if you want to be really great at it, you've got to figure out what your thing is that separates you from everybody else. And you and I had massive, massive advantages because the first thing I always made a priority

when I did radio was organizing my thoughts. Like if I have a point, okay, what's the point? How am I building the point? And will I be convincing at the end of the point? That's all we're really doing. But in radio, I'm trying to do how many of those a day? You're solo all the time. Like the standard for podcasting, like I know I can sell my monologues pretty good.

I got three of them a week. You're doing, what are we talking about? Like 60 segments a week? Yeah. And I remember one time we were talking about at ESPN, you're like, yeah, I know I'm going to have like three segments a show out of the 12. Like, that wasn't good. You could turn the page a little bit better on it than I could.

Like, I knew when I was having a bad segment, I'd be like, this is so incredibly frustrating. So the fact that this habit-changing thing has already happened, I don't think the market being flooded with a bunch of different people. Everything just kind of weeds itself out. People get sick of it and go, hey, you know, you probably met people too that are like, oh, wait, this is kind of hard. This is kind of hard to do this all the time. So I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if the live thing is underserved, but I can't imagine that there'd ever be such demand that it would somehow pivot back to that, you know? I don't know that it would ever pivot back to where the radio people are making the money that they were making years ago. If anything, it kind of proves that everybody

was on the air, especially the opinion people, the content people, how incredibly underpaid everybody was. Really? You know, I mean, nobody wants to hear it from us, but when I think about the numbers, we were arguing over all the time and then think about the numbers that exist now. If you're at the high end of this thing, you're like, so we were all just getting destroyed for 20 years? Yeah. Yeah. Now we were. Like, can you imagine Dan and Keith? Like what Dan and Heath are worth at the peak of what they were doing in the 90s for the big show edition of Sports Center and what that value would be now in this space. That's like 20 million a pop for each of them.

Yeah. Right? I mean, it's, that's why you have to love what you do. If you, you know, I always say there's a sea of money, go find good management. That if you're driven by money, you'll wear yourself out. It's like, you know, it's like an actor. You got to love the art to some degree. Maybe, maybe Rock doesn't care.

Maybe he does. I don't know, but you got to love the art. You love writing. You can't love it for the money. It's too fucking hard. You have to love it for the mental exercise, the storytelling. Like, I always look, I mean, that's why I never compare salaries. I mean, Stephen A and this and that.

Stephen A's great. Whatever he gets, he gets. Like, I got mortgages to pay. I just don't care. If I feel I'm being treated fairly, I'm good. Spoken like somebody who's been paid well for a long time. I get out of here. That's one of my favorite things at ESPN was the guys that always told you to never worry about anybody else's salary, we're killing it.

Pretty good point. So you and I are very similar on a lot of things, and we don't see a ton of each other, but we see each other a half dozen times a year. And I think, you know, I clearly respect you and you've been always so good to me. And one of the things that was sort of alarming when social media began is that like one small town newspaper person could have a take and it would inflame the internet. One rando on a Reddit board could say something and corporations are scaling back and firing people. And that a lot of the media, you know, I think it's pretty clear at newspapers for years, kind of leaned left, probably 70, 75%, which is probably 70, 75%, which is probably probably. healthy, like a stand-up comedian's funner when he's fighting for the little guy. He's not on the corporate side. I kind of like my media and my comedians to be a little off-center and fighting

uphill, not rolling down hill and the little guy. But one of the things I think about all the time is whenever I hear Roger Goodell get criticized, I'm like, A, media guy, you ever run a business? Because I do, and there's not a week when there isn't a landmine. Like, you have no idea. And I watched the NBA and I watched Goodell deal with social causes and social strife. And he's handled it really well. And it was really interesting looking at the TV ratings after the Super Bowl. I thought, yeah, they're all up. And we like celebrities with our sports.

We don't like politics. The Kaepernick thing hurt ratings. And I thought to myself, you've never met anybody in real life that said, I love politics with my sports. but there's enough of an of it's small but there are people often in the media that say you have to have some of it it's a responsibility and i guess my takeaway is isn't my responsibility as a broadcaster to my audience and if my audience clearly the data proves they don't like it they like they like to see uh bradley cooper and an eagles game they i mean numbers They like Taylor Swift there, right, despite the internet.

They don't like politics with their sports. The local columnist will try to guilt you into it. But I sit there and I think watching the numbers for 20 years and they've had one down year and I'm like, the audience is telling me, this is escapism. Absolutely. I'm not interested in politics. It was the same thing when it shows. Look, if I were a political pundit and I wouldn't be, I'm not super interested in it. I find both sides disappointing.

I remember the first time ever caring about politics. My father's a humble construction guy, self-employed. We don't have health insurance for the entire family. Bill Clinton sitting there in 1991 going, within 100 days, we have figured. And I'm like, oh, my God, like I'm an idiot kid being like, wow, we're going to have health insurance with 100 days. The president is just the guy that's going to win the whole thing. And then he was like, oh, wait, that never happened. Like that never.

And my family, you know, my parents both voted for him and really excited about it. Because again, you're just kind of voting for stuff. You're like, hey, that's going to impact. That's going to impact me, you know. And so I have a lot of thoughts because I can't escape seeing all of this. But, you know, we were both at ESPN. And again, I was there one more contract after you. That's when it really changed where the out was, hey, even though you're coming to me for sports,

this is more important. And I could never tell you that you're wrong. I can't say, no, you're wrong. This isn't more important. But you know what? Like, there's a lot of stuff that falls into this category that is. far more important than whether or not Ben Rathusberger has it this year

to win the north. Okay? Like, yeah, you win. I submit. But that's not what I was fucking higher to do. Okay. And I I'd always look at like every now and then you might do like a societal observation take and then pivot into something else. And it'd be like a really killer monologue. And those would usually

do better for you than just a breakdown of something sports because it stood out because it was rare. Get a little run. It would end up on the message boards, you know. And if it was Twitter, then Twitter would be paying attention to it. And so I think what happened was that depending on how you were aligned, you started seeing wins in content by pushing that more and more. And look, we had some major, major events over the last few years. I've also noticed that anybody that talks for a living kind of feels like they're supposed to talk about everything. But I always felt like, yeah, I have some thoughts. And one of the few times

I've ever shared them, you know, in some sectors, I was getting destroyed and I'd read something about me like, that's not even really what I'm about. Like, this is shocking to me, but whatever, I mean, it's the way it works. And I think if I came out and did an opening segment on a sports podcast, why I think both parties suck, then I'm not even offending one half. I'm offending both of them. Like, I'm telling both sides. Like, there's not even a group that wants to be like, yeah, go get him. You're on our side, rooting for me. So I just, honestly, I felt like it was easier than watching a million fucking games. I thought it became very self-serving.

I thought the intention was good, but I would see it with people that we worked with where I felt all of a sudden, I'm like, are you doing this because it's the right thing? Are you doing this? Because it's just fucking way easier doing this than grinding and watching 20 hours of football on a weekend. No, listen, I've told my staff this before. the laziest take is, hey, let's talk media. Because you don't have to do any homework and it gets tons of clicks. So I always say on my radio TV stuff, it's like, yeah, I'm not getting into that. That's an easy eight-minute filler.

I don't need to do prep to have an opinion on media. I got to watch guys sit there on a Sunday for eight goddamn hours, sometimes 12, writing notes for all these games Saturday. Now the Big Ten's explosion and the SEC, I always have to. to watch two conferences, but the big 10 schedule next year is going to be like, you know, Oregon, Penn State early. Ohio State, Wisconsin next. USC.

It's going to be four games in a row. I'll be watching all day Saturday. So, no, I think, I guess, I guess my point was politically is there was a moment in time where you felt almost guilted into having strong opinions on it. And I always look at my entire life as editing. Even though I'm doing a three-hour show, it's 90 minutes after. ads. And then I have one to two guests for 10 to 12 minutes. And my takeaway is I leave a lot out. I can certainly leave politics out. I leave hockey out and NASCAR in the baseball regular

season. I leave them all out. I can leave politics out. And I never really felt guilty. When ESPN went into that space, I was like, hey, man, you go for it. Nobody's coming to CNBC for football picks. Like, that's not my take. I'm editing out of those important issues because I don't think anybody thinks I'm well versed enough to have a strong opinion on them. Hey, look, I got invited to go on some investing show, right? Because I'll mention something here or there or talk about it. And I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not that guy. I'm not comfortable enough to do it. I'm not educated enough. I don't want to debate somebody on investment strategy. And I just, I know. that at least in the 20 years that I've done this,

I feel like you kind of owe it to the email. Like, you know, like, you want to, you want to do something that's like, we answer emails about advice at the end of it, you know, but it's more of a mechanism to have fun and close the podcast fast. I just, I didn't really understand it. And I even did a segment on it back, back when I was at ESPN, I was kind of like, what's the job becoming? Because is this, is this what the job is supposed to be?

And I, to your point, like, I don't know that I ever met anybody. He was like, you know, I really like your basketball stuff, but I hope you share, I hope you do little stuff on the primaries. That's funny. I remember when I covered UNLV and TARC. It was, we were embroiled in this NCAA shit. And at one point, I went to a news director and I said, not interested. No law degree. I want to cover the games.

If you want to fire me, I'm going to do big opinions on sports and UNLV basketball. You guys cover the NCAA shit with Tark because I'm over it. And he's like, all right. And then they put a reporter, Dan Burns was the guy. they put him on the big stories, but I'm like, I'm not doing this. I'm over it. I want to cover the games. And if I'm a simplistic person, fine, but I have takes. None of them are about bureaucracy. Like when people, when I heard this on the internet, how come you don't have an opinion on LeBron and China? Because it's not interesting. I don't care about LeBron and China and his opinion. I'm sorry if it's, you can label it as you want.

Like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't be paralyzed by wrong. Be interesting. And you hate China. I mean, would you share with me privately? That's funny. Okay, here's a, here's a bit. You can use this on one of your, I'm sure you will on, on, on one of your, uh, treatments, you know, okay. Yeah. So I was thinking about this the other day. It's too bad Larry David quit, you know, you know, he stopped his show. So you do this from time to time. You'll talk about a message or a life, a life hack, right? So I'm at a grocery store. I have about nine items. And it's not even a nine item, ten item line.

I'm in middle of the day. I'm not going heavy grocery shopping. I got nine items. You like to prep the items each day. I buy the same shit every third day. Yeah. Right. But you don't want to get stale.

Lady behind me has like, A drink and a kind bar. And she looks at me like, hey, I got two, you got nine. Come on. Don't be selfish. I want to be. And I looked at her and I was like, I stared her down. I'm like, hmm, bummer.

And I thought as I walked out, what's the math on that? What's the math on somebody has clearly a drink and a snack? what's the number where you can be like, nope, I'm not letting you cut. If I had 32, I'd let her go. 24, absolutely. 16, your turn. I was at nine. I counted mine.

I'm like, eight, nine. I looked at her and was like, talk to the hand. Take on that. I'm on your side. I had it happen with a woman. I was out at the marina. I had two items in my hand. And then I said, I'm going to grab two waters.

to the side, one of those side coolers. And as soon as I reached to the side, she just darted the car right behind me and cut me because there was no one there. The cashier was waiting. So it was like open, open. And I was going to have four items to be done. But once I leaned to the right, she just, you know, rubbing his racing and went right past me. And I was like, all right, I'm not going to get mad about this.

And then I saw her put the divider down and she was going to do two separate transactions for her and her mother. So the woman was like 50 and the mom was. I don't know, 112. And so I was like, oh, we're doing two transactions. We're doing two. And she goes, you were out of the way. You were grabbing water. And so she immediately knew.

And I was like, yeah, that's kind of the point. Like, you're pointing out, you're pointing out to me why I'm right. And you already had, like, you already had your defense ready in case I was ready to say anything. So like, to me, you're even more guilty now. And I went, you know what I was doing. I go, I was reaching for water. the aisle was wide open. I have these four things.

You have a cart. And now it's two transactions. I go, you know, you don't need to do that. And then she just got really aggressive. And then I just said, you know what? You're right. I'm wrong. What'd she say?

Nothing. Because I was like, I obviously wasn't saying that. So as I think about your thing, which was far less hostile, I imagine, I think it's a visual metric. If you're at a half-fold full cart, or maybe an overflowing, overflowing hand basket, you know, celery out one side,

rolls barely hanging on, getting strangled by the handles, then she might have an issue with you. But if we're talking surface area that's not covered on the bottom of the basket for nine items, not even at double figures, you know,

what was she going to do, shave 80 seconds off her day? Good point. All right. Rosillo, you know I hate bothering you. I'm going to go on. I may have a beer tonight at the club, but. Well, say hi to everybody for me.

Are you breaking down the NBA Central tonight? What are you doing? Come on, Thunder, Magic. Magic on T&T for the first time in 12 years, I think. This is big stuff over here. I mean, honestly, Barclay doesn't even know if you told him, OKC, nickname. He doesn't have any idea. No, I imagine how many guesses you have to get the head coach's name right?

Um, no, but I look, I was away. So I, I felt like there was a stretch of a few days or I wasn't as locked in. So trying to be locked in again, I got to come up with an opening monologue for tomorrow morning too on top of everything else. I don't know what it's going to be right now. Clock is ticking. How long is your opening monologue about 15? Yeah, 15.

If I'm really feeling myself, I go a little bit longer, but I don't like to keep them that long. You know, I don't care who you are. I think post 20 minutes monologue one guy straight, no audio breakups. That's, you know, it's not ideal, but sometimes I still do it. Yeah. Yeah, feel self-indulgent. Don't go there. It does feel little.

Especially when you start getting to like, and here's the thing about the G-League at night. Got to get this in there. Right. You've gone, you cross the Rubicon. I'm not comfortable with it. I like talking about that stuff, but, you know, A-topics or A-topics. All right, buddy. Good seeing you.

Thanks, man. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

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