The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Mary Kay Cabot on Watson Trade, Contract, Backlash, Suspension // Baker Divorce, Trade Market, Senior Bowl Red Flags

Episode Date: March 21, 2022

Colin has thoughts on Deshaun Watson to the Browns (3:00), a prime landing spot for Baker Mayfield, the severe backlash that will come from the Watson signing, and why it still may not be enough to win the AFC North. He also explains why the Packers could be in bigtime trouble without Davante Adams, if it's realistic for Matt Stafford to overtake Aaron Rodgers on the all-time QB list, and if Coach Cal will ever be held accountable for his Kentucky failures.Then, longtime Browns beat writer Mary Kay Cabot joins Colin to discuss the public divorce between Baker and the Browns (20:00), when the relationship became too toxic to run it back (24:00), why the public parting with Odell Beckham Jr was the beginning of the end for Baker (26:00), which of GM Andrew Berry, Kevin Stefanski, or Jimmy Haslam soured on him first (29:00), the biggest obstacle to getting him out of town (31:00), why the Browns felt comfortable signing Watson despite sexual assault allegations (36:00), how they are preparing to handle the public backlash (38:00), what the organization is expecting for a likely suspension (40:00), when Browns fans turned on Baker for good (46:00), and what Mary Kay saw all the way back at the Senior Bowl that gave her reservations about the Browns drafting him 1st overall (49:00).Make sure to Subscribe and follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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If you are new, just download the Fandul's Sports. Sportsbook app. Get started now. Sign up promo code Colin so they know we and I sent you. The Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandual Sportsbook. Hi, everybody. Welcome in. A lot of topics. By the way, Mary Cakehabit, Cleveland.com. Fantastic insight into Baker Mayfield and to Sean Watson. You'll want to listen to this. Really good stuff. A lot of NFL stuff to talk about. Okay, Deshawn Watson's now, a member of the Cleveland Browns, and the Browns are going to look to trade Baker Mayfield. Let me start with this. Baker Mayfield's market is really small. So just go team by team in the AFC and NFC. I'd make the argument the only place Baker Mayfield's a viable option is Seattle. Tough division. Don't have a starter, fairly desperate 70-year-old coach that wants to win now. He's not going to go to New Orleans. they wanted to go big game hunting with Deshaun and missed out. He's not going to Atlanta.

Matt Ryan may get an extension. He's got one year left and he's too expensive. He's not going to Carolina. They're already paying $18 million for Sam Darnold. The Jets are staying with their guy. The Giants are standing with their guy. Washington got their guy. Philly's standing with their guy.

Look around the National Football League. It seems to me the spot is Seattle. I don't think he's worth probably more than a sixth round pick, maybe a fifth. Remember, he's only got one year left. a contract and he's expensive at 18 million. What are you going to give up for Baker Mayfield? There's no guarantee you get him for two years. And I'm not so sure Seattle's not going to draft a quarterback, Malik Willis, out of liberty with their first pick. So there's not much of a market. Cleveland's not going to get much. As far as Deshawn Watson, listen, he's got a lot of detractors.

He's better than Baker Mayfield. The Browns today are better than they were a year ago. Here's the issue with Deshawn Watson. It's a super expensive contract. So at some point, not this year, but at some point in the next three to four years, you have to pay the piper on this stuff. You're going to have to probably move off a couple of expensive players. So I've said this with Dak and I'll say it with Aaron Rogers. You can kick this shit down the road. But when you pay Deshaun Watson to be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, and in my opinion, he's not a top five quarterback in the NFL. He's somewhere between eight and 12. But we haven't seen him play much and we haven't seen him play well mostly in the last two years.

So I don't like the contract if it significantly bothers you. I got your back on that. I totally understand it from a football perspective. I thought they paid a little bit too much for him. He also may serve a fairly long suspension in year one. So just look at the division. The Bengals of a upgraded their offensive line. The Steelers have upgraded their offensive line and at quarterback. Baltimore. Lamar's healthy. They've upgraded their roster. There's a real chance. Deshaun Watson doesn't play in September. So if you're a Browns fan, this is a long-term investment. Don't get your hopes too high for this year. There's going to be a lot of noise, a lot of pushback, a lot of controversy, a lot of ugliness. He may not play in September and early October. There's a lot of

unknowns with Deshaun Watson. And if you are deeply bothered by him playing in the NFL, I get it. You know, my wife and I talk about this all the time. There are certain artists she just refuses to listen to. There are actors that she won't support. And I'm like, I get it. I totally support it. Having been a sportscaster in my entire adult life, you know, if I turn the television off every time an athlete did something that I find detestable, you know, there'd be moments where I wouldn't be able to talk about certain topics I'm supposed to talk about. But I get it. The allegations are grotesque.

I've got a daughter. I've got a wife. I've got a sister. They're detestable. And I would just say, temper your enthusiasm as a Brown fan for a year. We have not seen Deshawn Watson play in a long time. He may not play early.

That's a big contract to live up to. and that division today, Baltimore, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh are all better this morning than they were at the end of the season. One of the most shocking moves, or perhaps the most shocking move of the free agent period, was Devante Adams bailing on the Packers and Aaron Rogers. Listen, in the end, I don't have a problem with what the Raiders paid Devante Adams. because they have an elite quarterback who they're going to have to make a big decision on, they have a top five running back, a top two tight end, and maybe in Hunter Renfro, the best slot receiver in the league. They would not be going after Devante Adams unless it was an area of need. They need a number one.

And by landing it in their division, they feel like they have the ammunition to compete. I loved the move. and can we be honest about this? Giving up picks for star players, haven't the L.A. Rams sort of shown us the way? If you can get a Jalen Ramsey or a Matt Stafford,

go get it. It's better than an interior defensive lineman from South Carolina, who's 22 years old, you're crossing your fingers, you don't know if he can play. So I got no problem for Devonthe Adams in the AFC West with an elite quarterback.

We're not talking about unknowns here. We know the Raiders in the draft now can go after and help the right side of their offensive line. It's not bad on the left side, not great on the right. They also signed Chandler-Jones to go with Max Crosby. It created clarity. By getting Devante Adams, it created clarity. Let's solve the right side of our offensive line in the draft. Let's solve our secondary.

Everything else, they're good. I'll say this. I talked to a general manager over the weekend. said, forget a number one receiver. The Packers don't have a number two receiver. He goes, I'm not sure they have a number three receiver. And how many years can they get out of Mercedes-Lewis? Green Bay right now doesn't have the weapons. And I hear this. Well, Aaron Rogers, 7-0 without Devante Adams. Folks, it's one thing to miss Devante Adams for a week or two or a game or two. Going into a season without Devante Adams or a number two receiver is different. My wife can be gone

for a weekend. The house is fine. If she left for 17 weeks, the place would burn to the ground. It's much different preparing against the Packers knowing they don't have a one, knowing you can put intense pressure on Aaron Rogers and he doesn't have his back shoulder partner than missing him for a game. Okay. This is a whole different ball game now. Remember, Green Bay again's going to have a first play schedule. You can go look at who the Packers play. The games are not in order yet. Go look at their schedule. It's again a rough one for Green Bay. I thought it was a staggering loss in a league that is increasingly about quarterbacks, their weapons, and pass rushes. They don't have an elite pass rush. And they may now, this morning, I'm not even sure this is

arguable. Green Bay has the worst wide receiving core in the league this morning. It's a bunch of three and fours, and they may be all fours. Matt Stafford signed a contract extension. No big press conference, no drama, no holdout. You would not have known about it, if not for the Rams Twitter account. You know, years and years ago, I said this and got some pushback. I said, how do we know that Stafford's not a better quarterback than Aaron Rogers? Matt Stafford was a better high school quarterback than Aaron Rogers, not close.

He was the number one high school quarterback in the country. Aaron Rogers went to a junior college. He was a much better college quarterback than Aaron Rogers. Stafford picked number one. First couple of years as a starter in the NFL, he was better than Aaron Rogers' first couple of years. Aaron Rogers didn't start until year four. Matt Stafford, first three years went to the playoffs once.

So we know that Stafford, high school college, first three to four years in the pros was a better football player than Aaron Rogers. Then he simply couldn't overcome the nonsense of the Detroit Lions. Finally this year, he gets a legitimate squad, good management, excellent coach. Wins a Super Bowl. By the way, with Jim Caldwell four years, winning record in three of them. Matt Stafford, between his arm talent, between his emotional discipline, next five years, what if he wins another Super Bowl or two?

Who's going to be better? We also know that Stafford has more come from behind wins than Aaron Roger. years. Already. Already. We also know it was the highest rated fourth quarter quarterback in the NFL. 14 TDs, no picks, highest second half passer rating. Sometimes this is why I hold back on criticizing people with big, strong opinions in sports. If you had said five years ago, Stafford's better than Aaron Rogers. People would have said that's ludicrous. What if they repeat? What if Aaron doesn't win the division this year, which I'll say this second, I would take Minnesota over the Packers to win that division now that Kirk Cousins has an offensive coach. But things that sound ridiculous,

if you let them breathe, aren't necessarily ridiculous. It's not a hot take. Matt Stafford this weekend signs a contract extension, $40 million a year. If not for the Rams Twitter, you would not have known about it. Jesus, Aaron Rogers' contract extension, was a circus, a self-promoting circus. Now I want to talk about the biggest disappointment in the tournament, John Cala Ponzi. My bad, John Calipari, but it does feel like a recruiting Ponzi scheme. He's always been a really good salesman and a self-promoter. But in the last five years, he has four number one recruiting classes and a number two.

and in that time, no final fours and two first round exits. In fact, he hasn't made the final four in seven years, and last year he was nine and sixteen. You know, when you watch Villanova, you can tell what they work on. They're really tough physically, really efficient offensively, very hard-nosed defensively. When you watch certain basketball teams, you can see they're coached. Calipari to me is the sketch artist that can't draw hair. He can recruit, but let me ask you, what part of his coaching is great? Seriously, what part of his coaching is great?

It's pretty remarkable to me that he has fended off. It shows you, illustrates the power of personality. Kentucky has one of the harshest fan bases in the country. I mean, they live for this stuff. There's not a lot to do in Lexington. And the fact that they haven't been to the final four in seven years, despite overwhelmingly have the best recruiting classes, the one and done for Calipari has just become a business proposition.

It's clearly not effective. Villanova and Gonzaga have almost no one in Duns. Last seven years, they're better basketball programs. it's almost like he's now, as they say, pro wrestlers do. They play to their gimmick. He's playing to his gimmick. The one and done is simply not that successful for him. It's hard to build chemistry.

I'm not saying he's not a demanding coach. He's not easy on these players. But if you take one player out of his program, Anthony Davis, he's been there over a decade. and he's got as many first and second round exits as he does final fours. What is he great at? I say Jim Beheim, you think of that matchup zone. I say Villanova J. Wright. You think of their defense at all levels, guard wing bigs.

I say Kalapari. You think he's a great salesman. It's clearly not helping him on the floor. That's why I joke. I've been calling him Kaloponzi. It's like a recruiting scheme. And he fends off the incredibly vocal and passionate Kentucky fans in the offseason by landing all these great players. You got to give me something on the other end.

That loss to St. Peters. And that's not a terrible team. That was an embarrassing loss. That's a really bad loss. You know, and at some point, I think one of the more remarkable things about Calipari is his ability to stay employed. they are not living up to their recruiting rankings and he's got to own it. Start your bracket with a bang.

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I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

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do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Giving new customers, $150 instant bonus is guaranteed. You get $150 in a bonus site credit. All you have to do is place your first

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We can do this. Find boosters near you at vaccines.gov, paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Well, I've been having her on as a guest, either on a TV show or a radio show or this podcast for a long time. I, in no way I'm trying to age her. I will say she is ageless. Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland Brown's Beatwriter for Cleveland.com. talk about an interesting month for you. So I'm going to throw out Mary Kay kind of my theory, and this has always been my theory on our business.

Stuff gets out when people want it out, whether I worked at ESPN or Fox. If something's out, somebody's salaries out or demands are out, you know, management or the people wanted out. So it was my takeaway that between Cleveland.com and other NFL sources, that the GM, Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefansky had no problem with it being out there that they were done with Baker. And it was almost a trap to see how he reacted because they do know that he is number six is pretty popular in town for a lot of fans. And if he demanded a trade, it frankly made it easier for them. But my takeaway was Mary Kay. They didn't have any problem with it being out there.

We want to get out of your business. And they were kind of, let's just see how he reacts. And he reacted like Baker would react. I'm going to demand a trade. But when the stuff was out there, you know, we want an adult at quarterback in various reports. And I'm not, this is not a negative, but my takeaway, it's the front office of Cleveland, the ownership, kind of wanted it. Am I wrong? Well, I definitely think they wanted to upgrade at quarterback this off season.

I do think that they wanted to do that. I don't think they felt that they were going to have a realistic shot at actually doing it. I think they were looking at some of the elite quarterbacks. They were not going to make a lateral move. They didn't want a Jimmy Garoppolo. This was going to be a situation where if they could get a Russell Wilson or an Aaron Rogers or a Tom Brady or lo and behold, a Deshawn Watson, that they were going to go for that.

And that was going to be it. Short of that, they were going to really seriously run it back with Baker Mayfield or at least try to and see what they couldn't get out of him for that final year of his contract. And I truly believe that at the combine, when they talked to his agent, that they intended to have Baker come back because I don't think they really believed they could get one of those elite quarterbacks. What changed? What changed was the grand jury decided not to indict Deshawn Watson, and they jumped in and they went into their heavy, dogged pursuit of Deshawn Watson and once again, still not being sure if they were going to be able to pull it off

because, of course, other teams were going to be involved. And, you know, Deshaun, I don't think was overly excited about playing up north, playing in the cold weather. So they were going to have to come in really large with their offer and make sure that, you know, that they not only gave, offered the three first round picks, but more than that. And then, of course, in the end, it came down to the money. And they really came through with an enormous contract. You know, Mary Kay, you had reported if they didn't land Deshaun, they were going to look elsewhere.

What was elsewhere? Well, actually, you know, once they were out of the Deshawn Derby, on Thursday, when they were told that they were, that was it. I initially thought that they would look elsewhere. But what happened was when he pulled out of there and told them, you know, that's it, you're out. They had a conversation with Baker's agents. And they told them that they wanted Baker to come back and start for them. And I truly believe that. I truly believe they thought, you know what, this will blow over.

you know, we can make this work. We can mend the fences, unruffle the feathers, and have Baker come in. Now we've got to marry Cooper. We'll draft another receiver. And then we'll worry about getting a quarterback somewhere down the road. I think that was the plan because there was really no one else left at that point that they felt good about. But then I think that Baker in his camp spoiled those plans by basically saying, no, we want to be traded. and, you know, he's probably not coming.

And I wrote about this today in my Browns Insider. He had no intentions of coming back. He would not have come back for the off-season program, would not have been here for the mini-camp, probably would have held out for summer all of training camp and hoped that the Browns caved by then. But this situation was going to get ugly in a hurry. Mary Kay, I was told mid-season by somebody that knew Andrew Berry,

the word that I was told was Andrew Berry was exhausted from Baker Mayfield, just the daily handholding, the press conferences, the kind of angst, ridden, you know, media relationship. And this was from somebody who knows Andrew really knows his temperament, had worked with him before and just said, you know, this is not going to last. That's not Andrew's type of guy.

to you take let's go back to the season did you have some misgivings throughout the course of the later in the season because he started pretty well you started reporting things you were hearing things about some anxiety and and listen it was just tumult i mean basically baker mayfield was turbulence the whole flight was turbulent when did you start having doubts he would return well i started having conversations with people uh you know know, right around, it was after the Odell Beckham Jr. Saga, which really rattled Baker Mayfield. We've talked about that before. That left him, you know, just, just completely uneasy, uncomfortable. There were other football players on this team that, you know, that shook them as well. I mean, it just kind of upset the whole apple cart. and there were players that, you know, really had second thoughts about Baker at that point because they really wondered, you know, what's going on here? We have to watch O'Dell Beckham Jr. walk out the door. And that was an issue.

But I think more so than anything, Baker Mayfield had problems with the way that he was being used by Kevin Stefanski. And I think that he felt like, you know, that he wasn't being showcased, that his talents weren't being maximized. And there started to be a disconnect between those. And again, I said this the last time we were on this podcast, I don't even know if Kevin Stefanski really was necessarily aware of it to the degree that it really was. But there started to be this disconnect between those two. And Baker became increasingly disillusioned with how things

were going. And then as the season went on, you heard him give two national interviews, one to Kurt Warner. And now I'm forgetting who the other one was with. But he did say in those interviews that he had to, you know, like mend fences inside the building. and help people repair their relationships in the building. I started to hear things about him feeling like it was more of the same type of dysfunction that he had endured since 2018. He was starting to feel like, you know, maybe greener pastures would be better for him. At the same time, I think the, and he probably saw the writing on the wall.

They hadn't given him an extension offer. He was not playing well. and it just started to unravel. And as you mentioned, I do think inside the building, there was a lot of thought about the maturity issue. They wanted to see some more maturity out of him as the years went by. But the way that I look at that is, you know, when you draft Baker Mayfield,

knowing what you know, you know what you're getting. You know what you're getting in Baker Meade. If you expect him to be anything other than that guy you knew what you were getting, then you're just kidding yourself. If I said Andrew, Kevin, Jimmy Haslam, which one lost their patience with Baker first? You know, I'm going to guess out of that group that it was probably, I would, and this is just a guess, that it was probably Jimmy, because Jimmy is very impatient. He wants success for the football team, and he, you know, they really liked Odell Beckham,

Jr., too. See, that was another thing. The Haslums, Dee, and Jimmy, they really love. like to Odell. I don't think they wanted to part ways with Odell, but it kind of had to be, because when your starting quarterback is getting thrown under the bus, and then the rest of the team is going to see all that. I mean, it got to the point where he had to go. But I would have to say that Jimmy probably was maybe the first one of the first out of those three to jump ship, for those reasons, for the bad, the negative press. I mean, you remember the game after they beat the

Detroit Lions and he just stalked off the field, angry, didn't talk to the media afterwards. All of those things started to wear thin. And then by the time you got to the 17, week 17, and he played against Pittsburgh Steelers, I mean, he was, Baker-Bainfield was downright angry about the way that he perceived that Kevin Stefansky didn't protect him, you know, did not allow him to look good, let him get sack nine times, five passes batted down. And that was the last straw for him. And he opted out of the last game himself.

And after the game, he said, I'm going to talk to my agent about this and we're going to decide what we're going to do. That didn't play well with some people in the locker room. There were people that thought, no, you've got to ride it out with us. Like, we're playing. You should play. I know that Browns are going to trade him. He's not that cheap. He's off an injury.

Only a year left on the contract. It feels like a fifth or a six round pick to me. And I don't think the market Mary Kay's large. I think Seattle is fairly desperate in that division for somebody that's had the ability to get a team to a playoff. How long will they wait? I mean, what is your guess on what they'll get for Baker? I should say this, what they would take to get Baker-Mayfield out of the building. Well, first of all, I think that what they're going to have to do in order to pull off a deal is that they're going to have to pick up some of that.

18.86 million dollar salary. Yep. And if you remember, right, last year, the Panthers had to do that with Teddy Bridgewater when they sent him to the Broncos. They ended up paying not only the $10 million he was guaranteed, but they kicked in another $7 million and the Broncos only had to pay like three. I think the same thing or something similar is going to happen with Baker Mayfield. I think you will have some teams very motivated to acquire Baker Mayfield if they knew they didn't

have to pay almost $19 million guaranteed for him this year. So there's going to have to be some kind of NBA deal. I don't know how they'll swing it. But there's going to be something where the trading team doesn't have to assume that whole gigantic contract. Not that it's gigantic for a starting quarterback, but those jobs are drying up right now. There are not a ton of those jobs left. And of the ones that are left, and I've worked the phones a lot over the last couple of days when I have a free minute from not writing one thing or another or doing all this stuff that is. has gone on in the last couple of days.

But I've had people tell me that that Seattle is genuine about starting Drew Locke, right? Now, sounds hard to believe. But I've been told by, you know, people that I trust that they really want to give this guy a shot. Now, maybe this is posturing. Maybe they don't want to seem like they need Baker Mayfield, right? I mean, some of this is, it's gamesmanship at this time of year. I mean, my mother would lie to me at this time of year if she worked for an NFL team. there's no question about it. So you really have to try to sort through what's true, what's false.

But, you know, I'm hearing that the Saints might want to give James Winston another try. I'm hearing that the Panthers might not be interested in Baker Mayfield. I mean, at this point, the Panthers who have the number six overall pick, maybe they just go with a rookie and just start all over. So I don't know if the market is, you know, what the Browns are going to want it to be, what Baker's going to want it to be. his first choice is to go to the Indianapolis Colts. Once again, I think it would have to be a deal where the Browns eat some of the money. Let's pivot to Deshawn Watson. Listen, I don't think he's a top five quarterback in the league, but he is now the highest paid quarterback in the league.

So I do think eventually you've got to pay the piper on that stuff. I like Dak Prescott. He's a good B plus quarterback. You pay you pay DACA money. and now you're seeing what happens, right tackle, Amari Cooper, Cedric Wilson. You know, you can give Aaron Rogers all the guaranteed money you want, but then it becomes more precarious with Devante Adams and he leaves. This is a massive contract.

This is also a roster that is really strong on the offensive side. Mary Kaye at some point, maybe not this year, but in the next year or two, they're going to have to make moves, either that or hit on a lot of draft picks. I hear a story. It may have been you. They're going to redo the Jarvis Landry deal. Let's start with the obvious sort of obstacle with this contract. They may get through it for a year. But do you see down the road it being problematic in terms of his support system on that offensive side of the ball? Well, fortunately for the Cleveland Browns and for Deshaun Watson right now, they have some of the most brilliant people in the NFL running their cap. I mean, these guys are incredibly smart and they do

a really, really good job with the cap. And just when you think it seems like they're not going to be able to find room to do what they want to do, they have a way of doing it. And the cap will continue to increase. And so something tells me that they will be okay. They know how to get those rookie contracts going. And I feel like they will be able to. They're not going to be able to. They're not going to. they're not going to be paying first round picks over the next few years, you know, a bunch of money. So they'll be saving some money that way. And I think they'll just start to cycle guys through. Once they get to that point in their contract, I mean, you saw it this year with with J.C. treter, you know, you get to a certain point and now it's time to say goodbye.

You just saw it with Case Keenan. They cleared a bunch of cap with Case and they replaced him with someone much cheaper. then they also reduce Deshawn Watson's first year salary to a little over a million dollars to give themselves a bunch of camp relief. So they have a way of it's a shell game for them, you know, moving the money around and figuring it out. So I think they'll be okay, but they're going to have to earn their money in the draft. They are going to have to draft really, really well over these next few years and without first round picks for the next three years. Listen, you're going to get, and you're already seeing it, the inevitable pushback on Deshawn Watson, who has apparently done bad things, though not charged yet. Is Cleveland and that front office and Jimmy Haslam, are they ready for it? This could get really ugly.

You know, that's a great question. I think that when you're in the heat of the moment and working on a deal like this and the front burner thing is getting the deal done, and, you know, and bagging the player and getting him into your city, sometimes I think it's hard to really gauge what the backlash is going to be. And I know that they have faith in that player. I know that they believe that he is not this bad person, that we are led to believe by these 24 accusations. They have a comfort level with him.

They believe, and they seem to know through their investigation and their vetting of Deshawn Watson, that he is not someone that they are going to have to worry about people accusing him of sexual misconduct as they move forward. Okay? We haven't had a chance to ask them yet why they are so confident. All we've seen so far are their statements. So we have to delve into that and not even sure yet when we're going to have an opportunity to do that. I'll be going to the owner's meetings.

I'm leaving on Sunday for the owner's meeting. So, you know, I will have a chance to. to talk to the Haslam's there, I'm sure. But just in terms of the press conference, you know, I'm sure we'll talk to maybe Andrew this week, Kevin Stefanski this week. But I don't know if they were completely prepared for the backlash. I was thinking about this yesterday. You know, I think you could do this in some cities where you might be able to get away with

it without as much of a backlash. But Cleveland is a big market for being a smaller market. it is in a lot of ways it's a big market it plays big nationally it moves the needle nationally national media are always all over the cleveland browns it's just a it's a big name team somehow some way and uh and i think it's going to be a long hard road for the cleveland browns to sell this to their fans and make them feel comfortable there's a lot of anger there's a lot of hurt feelings right now there's a lot of excited people but there's a lot of people that need to try to under.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tantons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of

too. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American. history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Understand how they could bring a person seemingly like this onto the team and into the community. Well, and Mary Kay, there will likely be a league suspension for some time. He may not play in September. Now, obviously, a move like this is a big picture move. They didn't get to Sean for September. They got it for the next three to four years to kind of, um, you know, straighten out the franchise. You know, I don't want to put you in a position to guess,

but I wouldn't be shocked if he just didn't play in September. The league came down and said it's a four to an eight game suspension. Do you have a gut feeling on it? I mean, having covered this league for as long as they, as you have, also something that's important, this is detestable to men, obviously, but to women who are making up increasingly a large, I'm not sure if people are aware how popular the NFL is with women. I saw numbers a year ago. I was, and I try to stay up on this stuff. I was blown away by it.

It's like there is a not only a sizable percentage of fans or women, it's growing so fast. And if he doesn't play in September, you're reminded of it again and again and again. I mean, what's your hunch on a suspension? Has it been talked about inside, you know, the executive suites? Do you think Jimmy Haslam and those guys? Well, I would think that they have had some conversations with the league and they have probably had some indication of what that suspension could be before they took this on. And of course, it's probably an estimate, but I would guess somewhere around six games.

If it's eight games, you know, maybe they hope that it gets knocked back a little bit, somehow. But I think that, you know, you can expect it'll be somewhere between four and eight games that he will miss. I mean, Kareem Hunt missed eight games for his indiscretions, which included, you know, on video kicking a woman in the hallway of his apartment. So, so I would think that it's somewhere around there. And that's going to be something that they're going to have to deal with. And I think that, you know, this has been, This is one of the most controversial stories in the history of the NFL. I mean, this is big.

And the way, and this story is, I think it has a tendency to, I think it might kind of take on a life of its own. That's what I think. Right. And I mean, there are 22 civil lawsuits pending right now. And unless they settle these suits and dispatch them and get that bigger. out. I mean, this could go on for a long time. And then the other thing to consider is, what if somebody else comes out of the woodwork? What if there is another criminal complaint? You know, I mean, I think that people need to be realistic. I mean, what if something like that

happens? So I think that this is an enormous thing that they took on. And I think they feel very confident that they were justified in doing so and that it's going to work out just fine for them. But it's going to be a long, hard road. And there's a lot of work to do for everybody involved. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Draymond Green Show, wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating, Find a forest near you and start exploring at discover the forest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council.

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What a crazy time to cover the Cleveland Browns. When you get feedback, whether it be on social platforms or Cleveland.com, what is the, if you had to wrap a bowl around Baker Mayfield, how is the average Cleveland fan feel today about that marriage. Cleveland and Baker. Well, I'll tell you what, there are a lot of fans that are now angry at Baker Mayfield that he asked to be traded after that. And I think a lot of people jumped ship after that. Before that point, I was still getting a lot of that, you know, the backlash about, you know, how could you ever not be anything other than 100% in Baker's Corner? Why are you writing about Deshawn Watson? And why are you writing that, you know, that they should,

think, you know, toss their hat into the ring for Russell Wilson and all, you know, all these things that I had been writing all offseason because knowing that they had to really try to upgrade if they possibly could, I've been hammering away at that and taking a lot of heat for it, but I don't mind that. I mean, I have thick skin. I can handle it. So I just continued to do what I knew I had to do and was right about all that stuff. But things changed. When he has to be traded. Now, it's an angry fan base when it comes to Baker-Macon. The ones that are still on the Baker bandwagon are all from Oklahoma. They're all the Sooners fans. But, you know, Browns fans are like, wait a minute, what do you mean you want to be traded? I mean, I thought you

were all in. I thought you were, you know, one of us and you were going to change the fortunes of the Cleveland Browns. Come back and show us what you got. So now, now I think, he's lost, you know, most of the people that were in his corner. Well, it's interesting. His father came out and took a shot at Cleveland and the Browns on social media. And I was told years ago, Gary Patterson, the longtime coach of TCU, who was dismissed this past year, I never heard him ever criticize a player's parents, but he ripped Baker's dad years ago, said he was arrogant and difficult. And before Baker was drafted, I knew somebody who had interviewed him. and this person that interviewed him had multiple New York Times bestsellers.

And he had told me off, you know, off air, he had said, just keep your eye on the dad. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Baker's sort of hutspur and arrogance. It comes from somewhere. And so I saw this weekend his dad fire a shot at the Cleveland Browns. I think in the end, though, Mary Kay, my take away on Baker was it was time for a split. you know, Baker's almost better to date than Mary, you know, if I could use that metaphor. It's just Cleveland has had enough rockiness in their life.

They really need an adult. That's why I thought Matt Ryan was such a good fit. They kind of need a steady hand, which they arguably haven't had since Bernie Cozor or Brian Seipp. I always had my misgivings about this because you had a very impulsive owner. you had moving parts GM coach. I just thought he was the wrong, you know, I thought he was the wrong personality for the wrong time in Cleveland. Now, I may look smart today,

but I always had this kind of feeling like Dorsey's ego and Haslam's ego and Baker's ego. It's just too combustible. Did you have a moment in the first year or two? And you thought, this is going to be a circus. Yeah. It was at the senior bowl before he was even drafted.

It was at the senior bowl when I went there to study Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield and really get firsthand look at both of those guys. Their personalities, the way they treated people, the way they treated staff members, the way they handled themselves in the media, the way the ball came off their hand. all the things that I try to see when I go to a senior ball because it's the last time you get to see these guys play some actual football before the draft. And back then, the way that I watched him move around the senior ball, I didn't like what I saw. They did not like what I saw at the senior ball. I did not like it.

And I shared my feelings with members of the organization and they know it. I mean, like, I did just because I was like, I am not feeling. it in terms of the leadership, the character, and all of those things that, you know, that you would expect that you would want out of your face of your franchise. But I will say this, and this is important, they shot right back at me and said, that's what we're looking for. We're looking for the crotch-grabbing flag-planting dude that can pull this team up out of the doldrums. Now, of course, you're talking about John Dorsey, like you said, John Dorsey was the GM at that time. And that's what they wanted.

They wanted a little bit of an MFer. That's what they want. They wanted a guy like that. Josh Allen didn't have the personality that they were looking for. Neither did Sam Darnel. They wanted somebody that was going to take this bull by the horns and say, you know what? I've got you and I'm going to take you where you want to go and I'm going to kick some butt along the way. I mean, that's who they wanted.

And that's why right now, you know, you can't say you need an adult in the room, in the quarterback room, when you knew what you were getting. Now, of course, there's been a regime change since then. There have been coaching changes since then, which, of course, is the number one problem with the Cleveland Browns over all of these years since they came back in 1999. One coach after another, one general manager after another. I mean, they do have some stability now. and I do have faith in Andrew Barry, Paul D. Podesta, and Kevin Stavansky, but we're still burning off the residue of dysfunction here. Definitely, right? I mean, and all of the instability. But that's what, that's, that's when I, that's, he had me at hello. I mean, and I just, you know what, I'm just, I'm just saying at that senior bowl, it was, um, and other people know what I'm talking about.

other people know what I'm talking about. I watched him very, very closely there. And I knew that there were going to be problems. Oh, was amazing. I should put you on staff. I use you so often and use your great insight. You're like one of my favorite people. I always appreciate you taking time away from your family and continued success.

Mary Kay, I just love your work. And I thank you so much for all your, you've been doing this so long and so well. I just admire you. Thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. I always enjoy it. The volume. Look for your children's eyes and you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look for your children's eyes and you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest. brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. We've all felt left out. And for people who moved to this country, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you.

You funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journalism. or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow

at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English Each episode

We pick a year unpack what went down And try to make sense of how we survived it With our friends fellow comedians And favorite authors Like Mark Lamont Hill

On the 80s 84 was a wild year I don't think There's a more important year for black people Listen to look back at it On the IHeart radio app Apple Podcasts

Or wherever you get your podcasts This is an IHeart podcast Guaranteed Human Thank you.