The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - McVay’s Masterclass, Bills Run Over Cowboys, Jets Future, Bring Back Baker?, Belichick’s Future, Tomlin To Chargers?

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Colin argues that Sean McVay deserves to be in the running for coach of the year for taking a team that was supposed to win five games to potentially winning ten (4:00). John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” joins Colin to break down all the week 15 action, starting with the Buffalo Bills running over the Dallas Cowboys (10:00), and whether the Jets should bring back Aaron Rodgers (20:30). They debate whether the Bears should bring back Justin Fields (28:00) and whether the Bucs should re-sign Baker Mayfield (38:00). They award the Lions front office with the MVP award (43:00), and discuss whether the Chiefs wide receivers will hold them back from competing for a title (52:30) They also look ahead to Bill Belichick’s future (58:00), and whether Mike Tomlin would be the best fit as the head coach of the Chargers (01:01:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd #3AndOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. NFL fans, it is time to unwrap the greatest gift of the holiday season.

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for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. All right, everybody, every Sunday, we chop it up for an hour, John Middilcoff, former NFL scout with the Philadelphia Eagles. He's got a three and out podcast on the volume. So we break down a lot of stuff today. Even one of the Saturday games, we spent about almost 15 minutes, 12 minutes on the Lions, big win, what to expect from them going forward, and Sean Peyton and Russell Wilson's blow up on the sideline. One guy doing the blown up, Sean Peyton. But we'll start with the Cowboys getting destroyed by the bills in a couple of minutes.

But, you know, my takeaway as we watch this Sunday is there are teams in this league. You know, if you have a bad CEO, the business gets worse over time. You saw that with Brandon Staley and the Chargers. They got worse every week. They opened the season, nearly beating Miami, looked really interesting. And then a poorly run business gets bad. Washington, the commanders with Ron Rivera, they were a viable team seven weeks ago. They just get worse. It feels like every week. You can see some of these defensive coaches. They feel Jurassic. They're out of touch. You know, meanwhile, you've got Shane Steichen, taken Gardner Minshu and beating the Steelers. You've got Sean McVeigh. I think Sean McVeigh, right now week to week, is doing the best job of coaching in the entire league. Really outplay the commanders from the very beginning. And you just saw a classic young, smart, progressive offensive head coach, just getting better offensively.

every week. It's amazing. He takes a rookie, Pooka Nakuwa. He takes Kairn Williams, who's now like the third best offensive player in the league behind Tyree Kill and Christian McCaffrey. Folks, that's coaching. Coaching is getting the most out of your players. And here in Los Angeles, nobody got less than Brandon Staley and nobody gets more than Sean McVeigh. The job he has done this year is absolutely remarkable. He is squeezing every ounce out of a defense that's Aaron Donald and kids and an offense, which has got. mostly Stafford Cup, Tyler Higbee, probably Rob Havenstein didn't play today, the right tackle, a little bit out of their prime. And then kids, Kyron Williams and Puka Nakua. It is a marvel to

watch the Rams play. And I know I live in Los Angeles and you're thinking, oh, Colin, you're going overboard. This team was picked to win five games in Vegas. And they have an opportunity to win 10. And you look at their schedule. I'm just sitting there watching that Rams game today against the commanders, and I thought, that is the difference in the National Football League. Offensive coaches and defensive coaches. The ability to take young players on the offensive side. Sam Howell, very good early. A mess at quarterback, a kid for Washington.

Why? Got a defensive culture with Ron Rivera. Meanwhile, Puka Nakua, the running back, they have young guys all over the offensive line. That's the league. And so if I had to vote coach of the year, probably give it to Dan Campbell. Sean McVeigh, D'Amico Rines at Houston, would be at the top of the list.

I just thought the Rams today. It wasn't nearly as close. You know, they got, Jacoby Brissette came in, they got a couple late touchdowns. McVe, runner-up arguably for Coach of the Year. He's been that good. And now for a segment called Making It Look Easy, brought to you by Morgan and Morgan America's largest injury law firm, Baker Mayfield. He made it look easy.

We'll talk about him later, beating the Packers, 380 yards and four touchdowns, and a perfect passer rating for Baker Mayfield. Just like he made it look easy, so does Morgan and Morgan over 100 offices nationwide, 800 lawyers, and over $15 billion in claims they have been able to recover for hundreds of thousands of clients. Morgan and Morgan has been fighting for the people for 35 years. If you're ever injured, go to 4,000. the people.com slash Colin or dial pound 529. Check out America's largest injury law firm.

Winning in the NFL is hard, but hiring Morgan and Morgan is easy. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman

on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. If you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody. Welcome in. It's the Colin Coward podcast. You know who I am, I hope, by this point in my life.

And this is John Middletoff, three and out podcast at the volume. You see them all the time on our digital stuff, the Twitter accounts, and a former NFL scout. We start with the obvious one. I did like Buffalo to win. I do think this league week to week, it depends on the spot you're in. I think San Francisco is unique in where their bad game is still good enough to go to Cleveland and almost win if they hit field goals. But most of the teams in this league have just bad Sundays. They're off a big win.

This was a spot for Buffalo. James Cook now is becoming a real part of this offense. All of a sudden, Dallas on the road falls behind. Dax not the same quarterback behind. Are you surprised, however, how the bills ran the ball on the Dallas defense? It was, I don't remember seeing the Dallas defense run defense that poor for a couple years. To me, one thing that Dallas over the last month, why a lot of us have been buying in is because of their physicality, like just their overall toughness. and today Buffalo kicked their ass.

I mean, that, that, Gahan was a beat down. And I think I said last week, when we watched Buffalo pull that crazy game out against Kansas City, it's hard to take them seriously when all their games were like that.

They were like the better version of the Chargers. They just found a way to win some of them. But today, you got to give them their ceiling. I mean, they have a couple wins this year. That Miami win early in the season, Miami's pretty good. That game against Dallas today, like their ceiling is pretty high.

When they're on, obviously playing at home, the division is still open. The division is not set. Miami schedule is very hard. They play Dallas. They play the Ravens. Then they finish with Buffalo. You look at Buffalo schedule at the Chargers, who mailed that thing in, the paths, and then they finish, like we said, with Miami.

Listen, they've kind of reeled me back in because today wasn't as much about Josh Allen just going LeBron, James, or Steph Curry. It was more the defense annihilated McCarthy's offense. And like you said, the run game, what has Buffalo always lacked? It's like never had a running back beside Josh. Well, if you can get a guy, you don't need them to get 180 yards every game. But if you can rely on an individual to be a hundred yard, a game guy in cold weather games, hard not to like Buffalo and look at them a little differently after the last 60 minutes, right?

Right. You know, I was thinking about the Steeler teams with Tomlin when Ben was in his prime, is that, and they had like, you know, a Levian bell. Yeah. And that's what Buffalo reminds me of. They didn't win, you know, they got a Super Bowl. No question. A couple with Ben.

But this is what Buffalo reminds me, a defensive coach, a defensive culture with a star quarterback that's about 70% of the offense. And when they had the star running back kind of in his prime as an energy, a twitchy energy player, there's always, Pittsburgh always had a star receiver on the outside. They draft and develop receivers better than Buffalo. But this is what, this is really what they remind me of. This is a big Ben Steeler team with a defensive coach, defensive culture, that has enough offensive pieces to win. And when I watch them today, I'm like, not everybody peaks at the right time. Rams are a totally different team than six weeks ago. Don't even look like the same team.

I mean, that's a dangerous team now. They're blowing people out. So I, do you buy my bills look like a steel? comp, Ben, Josh Allen, defensive coach, were they very, very energized running back? Yeah, don't hate it at all. And like the Pittsburgh, they're comfortable playing outside, right? And look at the AFC.

It's hard to know how the seating's going to shake out, but they would be comfortable. We've seen them go on the road in Kansas City and play well, go on the road in Baltimore and play, right? Cleveland, no problem. Miami, no problem. They won't, they view Miami as an inferior team, right? So you go, listen,

this team gets in there and they have a chance to run the table and get to 11 and 6. I mean, a couple weeks ago, it felt like the building was on fire. And this is where you got to give McDermott and Josh and some of the guys internally some credit. They handled it. They kept, you know, kind of the train on the tracks. A little lucky, however you want to look at last week, it played out. They won the game.

And today, they beat the living shit out of the Cowboys. And that was, listen, a lot of people were betting on the bills. It's another thing to be up 30 to 3. and the Cowboys struggled to get over 100 yards of offense with five minutes left to go in the game. I don't think anyone saw that. And that's kind of a rough reflection on Dallas that, you know, the Eagles, obviously the story today, changing defensive coordinators, guys are sick. They're working through some stuff. But how's that team going to go on the road and beat the Niners?

Because you want to take Dallas seriously as this NFC contender, this team that go to the Super Bowl. And then you watch a game like today, you're like, how does that happen? How does that happen? Well, don't the Cowboys play Miami next? Yes. Okay, so this is classic NFL. Dallas gets humiliated, physical team. So they are going to flex physically.

Miami, finesse team blows out a physical Jets team. They come back to Earth. Watch Dallas face Miami and push them all over the field for three and a half hour. I mean, you can see it a mile away. Dallas is coming out. Yeah, they're coming out. They just got humiliating. And not only did they get humiliated, they were pushed around the field.

So the whole week of cowboy practices, let's get back to physical football. So folks, I'll just, I had a really good Sunday today. I had the lions. I had the bills. I had the Rams, okay? Not so good on San Francisco, Arizona. Take the cowboys right now against Miami. And the other thing with Dallas, right, we'll see how tomorrow plays out.

They still, you know, Drew Locke's probably going to be the quarterback. But what if the Eagles lose, right? The cowboys would still get a little life, you know, just on a Monday night, sitting at home. get to look in the mirror, take a deep breath. Miami's a much better matchup than that version of whatever we just saw at a Buffalo the way they just played. Right. You know, there is something, you know, I always felt there are certain glamour franchises, the Lakers, Texas football, the Dallas Cowboys, that it's almost impossible as the NFL's gotten younger. You get this young cowboy team, and they're on every show. I mean, if the Jags go on a seven-game winning streak, guys like me, Steve.

Stephen A. It doesn't matter who it is. We don't talk about them. Cowboys going a three-game winning streak. Every player turns on the TV. How about them cowboys? And I do think it's really hard to sometimes manage young athletes when they're rolling. I think it's harder to be Sark or Mike McCarthy because you become a centerpiece of discussion and elevation. And I think Dallas kind of just got into Dallas. And it's very, this is what has. happens. They win, they roll, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait, this is the NFL. We're going up to cold Buffalo. I mean, there was not a minute of that game. Dallas was not ready to compete today. Well, do you know what? I've always had the take of, you know, I didn't love paying DAC 40 plus million dollars a couple years ago. Dottie was a little overrated. And then he's kind of

shutting you up. He started to play really good football. You're like, God, this guy might win the MVP. And then you watch today. And you go, yeah, that's kind of the guy. It's like, you know, he's a little He's still got that in him. He's done it in the playoffs the last two years against the Niners. Is there any scenario without major injuries where you can see the Cowboys beating the 49ers? Because I just, I struggled to do that. I don't think it exists. Yeah, I think DAC is a different quarterback trailing, and most quarterbacks are.

But the difference between DAC at home leading and DAC on the road trailing, it's like two players. Yeah. Right? Like, it really is. And most quarterbacks, you know, Baker Mayfield's always been, he's a good frontrunner. He's not good trailing. But we don't consider Baker Mayfield to be a $45 million year quarterback. So I look at DAC and, you know, there are components to Dallas that feel like a Super Bowl team. A good quarterback having a great year. Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Dak, good quarterback, having a great year. A really unique energy play. well at home, have a knockout punch somewhere on the perimeter as a weapon. But those teams didn't win Super Bowls. And I just feel like in order to win a Super Bowl, Dallas being a wildcard team potentially, it'd be just at San Francisco, you know, at a Philadelphia, at Detroit. That's really hard. Cincinnati almost pulled it off a few years ago. But they were, you know, Burrow was on just a streak. But I just think, I just

think Dallas, I think it's a hard ask for anybody if you don't have a star quarterback. Yeah, I think those two teams you named, they got home games. And like you said, this team more than likely is going to be the fifth seed. And they're going to be a heavy favorite in that first game. But Tampa's got some good players. It might not be as easy as it was last year. Right. And then right away, you've got to go on the road to Philly, to San Francisco, to Detroit, depending on how the seating shakes out. And that's just, that's a lot to ask. And let's face it, Because, like you said, of the brand, do they get thrown on Monday night football again? Right.

And then all of a sudden you get that weird kind of shorter week, even if you get the afternoon Sunday window. Because I would say, yeah, if it's them against whatever team no one cares that much about in the South, it's an easy Monday night football game. Because it's big ratings. That's kind of what it's been. So, yeah, I have a hard time. I think it's borderline. One, they haven't been in the conference championship in two and a half decades. And then when they still have this in the back, I mean, they have.

two, even if you give them the Arizona game, weird loss to a bad team, they had two real games against Buffalo and against San Francisco with a lot of hype coming into the game. They had momentum coming into the game. And they got destroyed. I don't know what the final score is of those two games combined, but it feels like negative 60 plus points on their side of the ledger. Yeah, it's just, it's one of those things. Dallas is very much a momentum team.

You know, Nick Sabin's team in Alabama have never been. Like he can just, certain teams have the ability to flip it half time and it doesn't matter. Dallas always feels like there's a way they play. And when you get them off their block off platform, they can unravel, especially away from home. It's a young team. There's a lot of emotion. I still think they're fine. I want to pivot to Miami destroying the jets today because that's who Dallas plays next.

And I think Dallas will handle Miami. But, and I think we both feel the same about Miami. They're electric. They're fun. A Dolphins team that has a speedboat offense is always good for the NFL, period. I just like, I've said this before. There are certain college football programs that just they make the sport bigger, you know. And I think Miami, you get that wild aqua water, a playoff game in January,

great weather, scoring points. But the Jets thing is interesting, John, because this offense, neither one of us loves Zach Wilson. I think he's probably a backup in this league. but Nat Hackett has not elevated him. And some of this is on Aaron's buddy. And there was a couple weeks ago, Alan Lazard was a healthy scratch.

And at the time I thought, they're sending a message like Aaron, you know, we've got to play the best players. This can't be about Aaron. This is a battle line. Nat Hackett to me has to go. I mean, if you,

despite what happened to Denver, they're a different offense without Nat Hackett. The Jets, things going to be fascinating. The team looked like it quit today, was not prepared today. So you run, you're a former scout, you run the Jets. I mean, I move off Hackett. I draft another quarterback probably third, fourth, fifth round, not first or second. They need left tackle, regardless.

They've got to get left tackle solved. What do you do with the Jets going for? I thought today Fangio was trying to end his career. I mean, that's the way it looked. Fangio made it look like he didn't belong on the same field coaching against him, right? that Miami defense coming off a short week and in the first half, they couldn't gain a yard. They had negative yards in the first half. And this Dolphins defense, Zach Thomas and some of their great players aren't walking through that door.

This is a pretty average personnel team. I just think when you're beholden to Aaron Rogers, are you firing Hackett? I don't know if Saul, like that's ultimately, this is where their organization is all out of whack. Right? Like the coach isn't really in charge anymore. even the GM, this quarterback who keep this story, the running thing about him coming back, what are we talking about? And then I have a hard time seeing them firing him.

Now, if I was the owner, I would like to bring in a real coordinator because I think most people around the league don't think Nathaniel Hackett's very good offensive coordinator. And today he was, today was embarrassing. It really was. It's one thing to lose, Miami's better than you. It's another thing for it to look like that. I mean, they're coming up. Miami's coming off a short week.

one of the worst losses like statistically in like NFL history three minutes 14 points like unheard of and for it to look like that and like you said the effort the quitting Zach did get knocked out and you know I think Zach the problem was Zach is he can have the half we're like God this guy's really talented and then he comes right back and he looks like a third stringer but I'm with you hack it has been an utter disaster because we are seeing so many quarterbacks around the league that aren't starting quarterbacks that have real offensive coordinators whether it's Zach 10 Taylor's crew, whether it's Shane Stuyken, whether it's all these guys that are making these players, Kevin O'Connell, look serviceable. And they get to these points where they can't even think about moving the ball until the game so out of hand. And all of a sudden, you get the hollow yards when you're down 30 to nothing. But I do not think that it's an option from the head coach or the GM to fire him because I don't think Aaron's going to want that.

And once you put all your chips on this guy, you kind of, like to me, the bringing in the Randall Cobbs and the Lazzards, like those days are over. But I think I want to play for this guy. I still think Aaron has that juice, right? He gave you the pay cut. And I'll be stunned if he goes, yeah, get rid of him bringing any guy you want. That's not really how he's operated. You know, it's interesting with Aaron. I, Aaron, I'm not insinuating that he doesn't watch film, but I've been told he's not as devoted to it as Brady or a Manning. He's just not, or Russell Wilson. not as devoted to film, that Aaron's going to kind of want to do what Aaron's going to want to do. I'm not saying he's lazy, but I've talked to a couple star quarterbacks in the league,

and I remember years ago, I don't want to give too much away, but it was somebody connected to Aaron, and they're like, listen, man, he's not sitting in his house tonight breaking down a bunch of film. You know, he could be watching something on Netflix. And maybe some of that is because he's so gifted. Well, he could add lit. Those guys couldn't. Right. And so does Aaron want to, does he want to learn a new offense at this point?

No chance. I mean, I'm not, none. That's my takeaway. So Aaron, if you go up to him and say, we got to get a new AOC. Aaron does it. Farve at the end of his career didn't want to. Aaron at the end of his career, I don't think Aaron wants to learn new offense. Is there a possibility that Woody Johnson, Sala, these guys next year, I mean, if I'm

Sala and I have any choice, I'm not tying my career to, that offensive coordinator. Do you think there's any chance they would just blow it up and draft a quarterback? I mean, you have moments where you watch today, you go, could this owner just lose it and fire everybody and just say, you know, the history of the NFL, the players don't dictate the terms. Even Tom Brady was shown the walking papers in New England, right? So this is, and the jets are historically dysfunctional. What's this? 13 straight years now, no playoffs. Yeah. Like they're in chance, they're just, what, they're going to win six games? So at any, moment, these owners, we know money's not an issue, and we know patience is not something that a lot of

these guys have, especially the losing owners. So I think everything's on the table because what's, what's Aaron going to say to Woody? Right. Like, I still signed the check. So yeah, you gave me some money back and yeah, we brought you here to work with this guy. But I don't think Woody's shown to be like the Roonies and see something out. And in fairness, has Robert Sala and this group really earned like the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing? I like Robert Sala. It seems like a great guy was a good defensive coordinator. By no means would I put a lot of money on investing on him as being like the next five years be a successful head coach. He has not shown anything even remote. He doesn't know anything with offense. So he's very beholden to the coordinator. He hired his

buddy LaFleur. That failed. Now he hired Rogers buddy. That's been an utter disaster. Because like we said, even Rogers gets hurt four plays in. You should still look consistently a lot better than you've looked, just some innovation, just some being able to move the ball. They consistently have halves that I would say the worst in the NFL, them in Carolina. Carolina is, I mean, the worst team we've seen in a while. Them in Carolina, worst offenses, just eye test. I would imagine the stats back that up as well. Yeah.

So I think there's a lot of different options. There's a lot of options for the Jets. I would go get left tackle. If you start looking at the mock drafts right now, they have a chance to get the number one. or number two left tackle. And despite who your quarterback is, you just have to get one of those. I'm not putting Aaron out there with their current situation, but there's a lot of things on the board for the Jets.

Now, I want to talk about a team that's not very good, but I find fascinating. The Cleveland Browns beat the Chicago Bears. Almost didn't. That Hail Mary should have been caught by Mooney. Crazy. But the Bears defense is interesting because they had three picks today. They're playing very well. Their secondary and linebacker crew very well.

Matt Eberfluse, over the last five weeks, he's a defensive coach. That defense, now that they've got Montez Sweat, they've got a great corner, you look at it and you're like, okay, they've been in this system a couple years. I'm not sure I can fire him. That looks like he knows his side of the ball. And I've said this before. When McDermott was getting crushed, our take was always sort of, listen, we don't know if he has vision, but he's obviously a good detail. Guy, he's Chuck Knox. He'll clean it up.

knows his side. He's just not a visionary. Iber Flues may not be a visionary. I can't fire him. The defense looks absolutely legit. Despite losing today, they did their job. But the question becomes with Justin Fields. He again, today he makes plays. He had a touchdown drop by a tight end, Robert Tonyon, but he doesn't win enough games. I don't want to hear that winning's not a quarterback stat. He doesn't win enough. I still think at times he doesn't see the field. He can be a taddy erratic. I move off him. But boy, when I go to Twitter and I hear these Chicago fans, there's a lot of love. You know, there's a difference they always say with coordinators, John, calling plays, just calling plays or really calling a game.

McVeigh's calling a game. A lot of guys call plays. There's also a difference as a quarterback just making incredible plays and managing a game like Mahomes with an occasional great play. I kind of feel like Justin Fields is just a series of plays. That's how it lands for me. I would move off him. I think you could send him to Atlanta and get a second, two seconds. What would you do with fields?

Yeah, I mean, I haven't changed one iota no matter how many awesome plays he makes with his legs, no amount amount how many great throws he makes. I mean, that Hail Mary today was the thing of beauty, right? Oh, yeah. The mark on it, the way he put it right there in the middle thing. His physical gifts are elite. But to me, he's been like he's not coming, he's not going to be the Chicago Bears quarterback next year.

I actually think, though, he's earned. We keep talking about every week. A lot of credit. Shown a lot of mental toughness and even just subtle improvements. And there are, we keep talking about Atlanta because, you know, he's played to Georgia for a split second. Makes a lot of sense. They need a quarterback. There are going to be other teams that need quarterbacks.

Like, I watch New England, they're quarterbacks. It could be a bidding war. Maybe, like you said, it ends up going from a couple weeks ago, like maybe get a third now, maybe get a couple twos. Who knows? So it seems like a good guy. People like them. Teammates are rallying around them. But to me, you're not passing.

on the number one overall pick. I do think it's a big question, though, with the coach. Because at one point in time, you look up at 17-7, they're beating the shit out of the Browns. Like, it's going to be difficult. Now, a little like the Jets, kind of dysfunctional organization. They have, you know, a former Big Ten commissioner who's trying to get power. Is the GM going to stay?

What's really going on? Owners old school. So I still think a lot of stuff's on the table there. But Iber Fluse has proven to be a really good defensive coach this year. Yes. I mean, their defense is vastly. improved. I was critical of the sweat thing. Today, he was dominant. He looked like Nick Bosa, Miles Garrett. But do you want him to be your head coach with a young quarterback moving forward?

And do you just give him, well, we'll give him one more year. And then you're firing them a year in to your rookie quarterback. But I don't think that you get the opportunity with Carolina to get the number one overall pick and then pass on it. I just think, especially with a guy who's really, really talented. Some years, 100%. You would just roll it through another year with Fields. I don't think you do it this year. Also, they have two firsts, a third, two fourths, and a fifth. You could absolutely replace your second round pick. You can get a second for Justin Fields.

So now I've got two first, a second, a third, two fourths. That's potentially, you know, you're talking six really good players. And it's interesting. They have good players on the roster now, too. They have a number one receiver. They have two tackles. They have Caleb Williams. I even like their offensive coordinator.

I know, you know, and we always blame the offense. conservative coordinator, but they've got their pieces here. I'm never going to love their ownership, right? I'm never going to love it. I would prefer an offensive coach. But they've got the tight ends, a number one receiver. Now they have a dominant guy up front defensively. They have a star corner Johnson. They have incredibly, now they're expensive, but active linebackers playing very well. So I'm with you. I just think you can talk. yourself into a lot of things. But the Houston Texans are a different team because of C.J. Stroud. Yeah. Okay. Like it changes the dynamic. And if you don't have a star offensive coach,

like a Shanahan, like a McVeigh or a Shane Steichen, and Chicago doesn't, then you need a star quarterback. It just changes the entire temperature of the franchise. And I like Justin, but I think it now becomes people trying to talk themselves into them instead of just going, We don't win. There's too many turnovers. He's been banged up, by the way, in his career. He's struggled to have a full season without missing a game. I think it's time.

Well, for example, watching Arizona and the Niners today, Arizona's team's terrible. I mean, their roster is really bad. That quarterback's a real big talent. He's not big, he's small, but he is really, really talented. I think if you're the Bears, like, if you put him on the Bears with the roster they had, like Kyler Murray, and I think, you know, Caleb Williams, kind of not as fast version of Kyler, but enormous arm. accurate. I think you're immediately have a chance to be competitive next year, right?

Especially if you hit on some other picks. They, they, they're going to be a fascinating offseason team. To me, it just starts with the coach. And I think, I think you got to move on. I give them a lot of credit for not this, because it felt like at one moment a couple months ago, the ship was going to sink. And Iber Fluse to me is an immediate, like is he the number one defensive coordinator option on the open market? But I would try to get an offense. I mean, I still think Jim Harbaugh makes like that. lot of sense there. Yeah. All right. Let's, and there's a lot of different things to talk about here. Let's, I want to talk a little bit about Green Bay. So we all kind of fell in love with Green Bay. And then they

come out today, the Packers. And they don't, now I will say Jordan Love and the Reed, the wide receiver from Michigan State, Jaden Reed, had a one of the better throws and catches on the season. but I'm going to look up something very quickly. What do we do with Green Bay now? So Baker Mayfield and that defense, Joe Barry's defense, Baker had 380 yards, four touchdowns. And a couple of weeks ago, I kind of felt like I really like this team. And then as I watched them today, I was like, no, I really do like this team. They need a defensive coordinator change.

But I wonder, I see it with Green Bay. I think there's a lot there. I think they're such a young team. Like sometimes you'll watch a team and you're like, they're just a year away. They're a bunch of kids. It was, we probably should have thought that with Josh Allen, his first big year. Like, what do we do? We're falling in love with this boxer who doesn't have a jab.

Like, they're just big. I watch Green Bay and I like sort of the direction they're going. But today, to get gashed by Tampa, am I over my skis on Green Bay? Are they just actually a pretty average football team? Today I had the bears on one screen in Green Bay on another. I thought if you could combine the two, take the Green Bay offense and the Bears defense. No one would want to play them in the playoffs, right? I mean, they got, I think the average age of the receivers are 23.

Obviously, the running backs are good. LaFleur is a good coordinator. Love is dramatically improved over the course of the year. I mean, Joe Barry has been a guy they've talked about in Green Bay. Let's face it, this goes back to the McCarthy era. Their defenses have just not been good on all their playoff teams. And this team's not going to go to the playoffs more than likely, but their defense today was Swiss cheese. And they've invested a ton of picks.

They've spent a bunch of money. They're not physical. They don't make open field tackles. Their D.Bs don't make any plays. I mean, Baker Mayfield, they have skill guys, right? Mike Evans, good player. Godwin, good player. The running back, White.

I don't know that much about it, but he's a talented player. They annihilated Green Bay. So you go to an offseason, you invest in a new defense coordinator. Maybe you get it Eber Fluse. Maybe you get, you know, if Todd Bowles is available, if they fire him in Tant. You know, you get Dennis Allen. if he gets fired in New Orleans, whoever doesn't make, and get the top guy. Because Joe Barry was LaFleur's buddy from the ramps.

And I think sometimes the Shanahan guys, this happens a lot in college. You kind of hire the guys you know. And listen, people like the guy, but he's a position coach. You put him at defensive coordinator. It's been an embarrassment. Now, you could argue maybe it's the players. Maybe their players are a little overrated. But today was really bad because their offense has played, for the most part, really, really well.

and winning football. I mean, last week, DeVito ran for 70 yards on them in big spots on Monday night football. It was the defense. This isn't Kyler Murray or Lamar Jack. You can't let Tommy DeVito have seven carries for 70 yards. In big spots, picking up big first downs. So, yeah, at the end of the day,

their special teams let him down a couple years. Their defense let him down. I think LeFleur has to find a way to button up his operation because clearly he can handle the offense. And they've always been able, going back to Ted Thompson, find guys in the draft, the Jordy Nelsons, the drivers, the Devante, that's never going to be their problem. Quarterbacks, hell, they can find those guys. They might be the Steelers of the quarterbacks, right? Steelers with wide receivers, then with quarterbacks. But defensively,

this is the best, the Niners defense is good. That's the Eagles problem right now. How do you take them seriously as a Super Bowl contender if their defense is going to be a problem, right? And it's the big offseason question mark, will they fire his friend, which sometimes can be hard in football? And then will you go out and pay top defense? I mean, Vic Vanjoe will five million dollars. Yep. That's what it costs. These guys in the SEC make a couple million dollars, the defensive coordinator.

Yeah. This is not, you're not hiring a $650,000 defense coordinator here. Yeah, that's UCLA. Yeah, exactly. So it is interesting, though, because the best quarterback is winning all these divisions almost down the line. Baker Mayfield's the best quarterback in this division. He was a number one pick.

Nothing against Derek Carr. I defended him for years, but my ship has sailed. I agree. When a coach takes him out in the United States, the red zone for Taysom Hill. You know, it's like, all right, you're telling me something. So Baker's the best quarterback, probably most talented quarterback in the division. Tampa has a chance to win this division. And now they're going to draft near, you know, at the bottom third of the first round. You're not getting your quarterback. You'd have to wholesale sell it. And my takeaway

with performances like this from Baker, if it's a reasonable contract, is it the craziest thing to say, he's the best quarterback in the division? We can get him for 20. $28 million or whatever it would be. It wouldn't have to pay $38.48. We're not going to pay that. Baker, probably. You're, you know, Baker's now, no state tax. Tampa.

Good receivers, not dysfunctional Cleveland. Tampa is actually a highly functional team. I mean, they've drafted very well for years. When I covered them with McKay, they drafted well. They've always had, they've had good coaches, good players. They really have not done the quarterback position particularly well. But you go from Tommy, and now you go to Baker, a number one pick. Does Baker have a chance this year?

they draft the quarterback fourth round to just get another year? Yeah, to me, Baker's like a one year, $15 million a year guy. I think this year was like $1,4, $1.5. Now, to me, I can't give him $25, $30 million because he's had a lot of games. And ultimately, to me, he's like a fringe backup, probably somewhere in the 20s, but he has the talent when he looks good. He looks like a legitimate starter. But then next week, he'll go, struggle to throw for 150 yards.

So, yeah, you probably roll it back, especially if you're drafted 20. hell, you could bring him back on a one year $15 million, one year $12 million, and still draft a guy at 20 if he like him. He kind of becomes your version of Gino Smith. Because the one thing you got to give him a lot of credit, Colin, is unlike Cleveland, where everyone was like kind of over him, they like him. Jason Leif's been outspoken, the players like him. So listen, men mature a little later sometimes, and he leads him to the playoffs. Be big for him. It'd be big for Todd Bowles.

I mean, it'd be a pretty big month, back-to-back playoffs. even if it's a shitty division, that's back-to-back home playoff games for the ownership. Okay, so Atlanta doesn't have a quarterback, even if they went and got Justin Fields. Ritter's awful. Yeah, Ritter's awful. But Justin Fields has not proven to be a winning quarterback yet. Derek Carr, Saints are tied to that for two more years. So Baker's more talented, a throw over the football.

Carolina's a disaster. Disaster. So my takeaway is, I'd roll the dice with Baker one more year. He'd still be the best quarterback to the division. I think he'll be bad. I think he'll be back. Jason Light likes him a lot. Yeah.

And there, you know, there is something about Baker is that if you have Baker, there is a certain edge. Like he does bring, and people think I hate Baker. I really don't. I've had experiences with people that know him. I like Baker. I think Baker, I've always said he's one of the 32 best quarterbacks in the planet. There's no question in my mind. He's a very emotional player.

So he gets down on himself. I mean, he can do the roller coaster. I mean, he can be brilliant and awful in two drives. So he's very led by emotion. And, you know, certain guys are, certain guys are not. But I think Baker, I think I would, I draft another quarterback third, fourth round. I would absolutely have no problem rolling the dice. And to your point, Bowles does a pretty good job.

Todd Bowles does a pretty good job on the defensive end. Yeah. Would it shock anybody if they went to Detroit and won? No. It wouldn't shock me. I don't think it shocked me if the Rams went to Dallas and won. I mean, this year in the NFC, outside of the Niners, who do I love? Well, to me, today's news on the Eagles, and listen, I've been in that building.

It can be tight. You know, it's just an intense coming into this season, besides the Chiefs, to me, the Eagles and the Niners, it was kind of Super Bowl or bust. You have a couple weeks like that, all of a sudden they're making a defensive coordinator change, and December 17th, they're, what's their record? They're 10 and 2. I mean, it's pretty crazy. So they're not feeling great.

The lions at any moment can look like they did on Saturday night or look awful. Beside the 49ers, everyone in the NFC is a complete coin flip. You wouldn't be shocked if anyone beats another team. We don't even know, I mean, the amount of different playoff teams that could get in, it wouldn't shock you if the Saints and Tampa get in. It wouldn't shock you, neither gets it. It's like, who knows how this whole thing is going to play out? You can't trust any of these teams.

So now let's move to a Saturday special, Denver getting buried by the day. So I was thinking about this watching Detroit. So they're a very good dome team. Gough's a very good dome quarterback. He's had at least two touchdown passes in five straight indoor games. So they could potentially play Tampa, warm weather, at home, Dallas warm weather, Ram, Sofi. So there's a lot of matchups. Obviously, Philadelphia, a team struggling is not where they'd be at their best on the road, cold weather.

But I will tell you, in most organizations, John, the quarterback and the coach, it's the star. I think the front office for the Lions is their star. Leporta, Gibbs, everybody knocked some of their draft picks. These guys are unbelievable. I look at that roster, and it's very rare, John, that a team wins the division and scores a lot of points, and we don't look at their coach or their quarterback as driving it. I think this is one of the better front offices in the NFL, drafting the last three years.

Totally agree. I mean, Brad Holmes, that's... draft day trade he made to get Gibbs and then ultimately LaPorta, but has a chance to go down. It's like a franchise altering move. The other thing is because he was a Rams guy and knew Jared Gough, the 49ers offered the same deal to the Detroit Lions for Matt Stafford, but it was Jimmy Garoppel. He said, no, I'd rather have the same deal with the Rams and Jared Gough. And a lot of people at the time, I mean, the way we're all talking about Jared Gough now is a lot different than people were talking about him a couple years ago when he was about to get traded. honestly has changed their franchise. Because we talk about Baker and a lot of these guys being these bridge quarterbacks. Jared Gough is more than that. Now, is he a top five guy? Of course not. Does he a top 10 guy depending on the week? Most times he's somewhere between like 12 and 15.

But for them in that dome, they also play Minnesota, which is also a dome team. Pretty good spot. So yeah, that trade, a lot of people on the internet crushed. You can't take a running back? It's like the draft was awful. And that running back, and this is what Dan Campbell said at the time, who was with Sean Payton, who's like his mentor in New Orleans. It reminded us by Alvin Kamara. You're watching him last night. He's like a Chris McCaffey, Arabian Kamar. He can catch the ball.

And Laporta looks like Kelsey meets Kittle. So he is abs. You know, tight end. I was told this years ago by an executive. He said, tight end's tough for rookies. Even Kincaid and Buffalo can disappear. Because for the first time in your life, you're going to be asked to block 17 weeks.

Now, certain programs, like Utah, asked from Kincaid. Utah ask your tight ends to block. Not all of them do. Hell, some of these programs in college don't ask their offensive linemen to block much, right? It's just pushing guys around. So tight ends come to the NFL, and it's,

John, you know this, it's a two, three-year process to get these guys ramped up. They go up against, and coaches like McVeigh, Higby has to block. You're not on a field if you don't block. That's why these Iowa tight ends have so much success. That's right. They're physical, and that's a great point. So in the NFL, tight ends are asked to block.

It usually is one of those positions to think, God, that guy was so good in college. What's happened? He's getting locked up, 60 snaps. So when I watch a tight end come into the NFL, and he's a top three to four tight end in the league, you're looking, this is like an Antonio Gates moment or a Winslow moment or a Kittle moment where it's like, this is not a fluke. To be that good as a rookie tight end, you are completely different. the rest of the league at that space. To me, that's what I see. Well, he's not only a star, that position doesn't cost much money. So once you extend them, they don't cost what wide receivers costs. They cost half as much, right? The top wide receivers make $30 million. Kittell-old Kelsey,

they make $14, $15 million. So the other thing, it's an incredible value on your salary cap. So when you hit a home run, if you draft Brock Bowers in this upcoming draft in the top 10, and then he becomes a top five player, he actually becomes a top five player in the league who's cheap. So it enables you to even buy and spend more money on other players. So from an economical standpoint on the salary cap, you could argue it's the best value, that if you get a

star middle linebacker. Because they don't cost what defensive ends or left tackles or quarterbacks cost. But Fred Warner, what's his impact? I don't know. It's like a 10 out of 10. Right? What's Gronk or Kittle or Kelsey when they're on? No one can stop them. But they don't, you don't have to pay them this much. To me, what,

I also think Dan Campbell, if they win 11 or 12 games and win the division. I think he has to be the coach of the year. When you just look at the Detroit Lions, in 90 years, they've won double-digit games nine times. For example, Andy Reed, when he wins double digits this year, has 18 double-digit win seasons in his career. So the Lions, like if you go, if Josh Leby, the dude that just from Oklahoma and went to Mississippi State, if they become a perennial playoff team, we go, that's incredible, right? But you don't get as much credit when you do it at Georgia or Ohio State.

what you're doing in Detroit, and you can say, well, equality in the NFL, that's not true with the Lions. They never win. And now he won nine games last year. He's going to win 11 or 12 and win the division pretty easily. And they're just good. Like you said, they're going to be hard to beat at home, and they're going to get a home playoff game because in a dome they're very comfortable and they're very fast. Like, how do you cover all these guys? They actually have a lot in common with like the 49ers, all their position.

They all speed guys. They all can break tackles. How good St. Brown. Their defense is pretty questionable. but if you can score 35 points, like try to beat me. Well, and also Dan's created a culture. They're a kind of relentless attacking team. Is he a great schematic coach?

I doubt it. But he has created a culture. And for years, that's what Detroit lacked. They had players. Hell, Stafford, Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson. The Dominican Sioux. I mean, they've had good guys. They've always, they're like Tampa.

You know, they've always have good players. I do want to segue to Sean Payton and blowing up with Russell. Wilson. So I think I told you this, that I think the frustration for Sean Payton with Russell Wilson, he's not as athletic as Taysam Hill, and he's not as good a pocket passer as Drew Breeze. So he feels like, you know what I mean? Remember when he signed that extension for Taseom Hill, we all went, Sean, you're crazy. Sean wants hyper-athleticism or hyper-accuracy. And with Russell, it's a lot of dink and dunk underneath stuff, and he's not as twitchy as he was a couple years ago. he's clearly a franchise quarterback, but he went off on him earlier in the year on the thing around his wrist, right?

Like he wasn't learning the place. He went off on him again. And I always say this, when you're going, if you go to a party and a couple's arguing, like, how bad is it in a car ride home? How bad is it at home if you can't hide the anguish? Sean is blown up with Russell at the podium on the sidelines. And maybe Sean's more emotional than most coaches. But when I look at Russell and Sean, I don't think it works. I just don't think it works.

I don't think Sean's ever going to buy in. I think he's done the best job he feels he can do. But I think he's a difficult player based on the fact that Sean feels he's getting a B guy, both passing and athletically. Well, to me, the one thing with Sean Payton is he has obviously a Bill Parcell's guy. He's got some Belichick, Walsh in him. He's pretty cutthroat. So to me, if he's over him, he will not be on this team next year. And it's all, it's been well reported on the money, how they can eat some of it and just kind of be rid of the contract and have it directly impact their salary cap for one year and then just kind of be somewhat rid of themselves from it.

But I'm with you. I mean, he even said, I was yelling at him just because I was frustrated at everything. He really wants to yell at him all the time. I would imagine, right? And he's, let's face it, when you go into a new relationship and your previous relationship is the best relationship you're probably ever going to have, he compares. everything to Drew Brees. And Russell just strictly is not that from. And listen, Russell's not a bad guy.

He's not getting any trouble. He works hard. But ultimately, this is like, it's a result-oriented business. So all that stuff's great. But then we play the games. So do you get the job done? And last night, they weren't even close. Now, the Detroit Lions are just a better football team.

They have much more talent on offense than that team has on offense. But there has been countless times where they have won in almost in spite of him. I mean, their defense has played beside last night, or two nights ago, a lot better over the course of their run. But if I was a betting man right now, Russell Wilson will not be on the team. Now, I don't know how they facilitate that. They eat money. They trade them.

They cut them, how it goes down. But we've seen enough. Sean Payton earned a lot of credit because at one point early on in the season, like, is this going to work? And then he got the thing, clearly knows what he's doing. If he wants him gone, he will be gone. Because that's how the NFL works, right? This is what we talk about with Rodgers.

The quarterback, the players don't get to dictate any of this stuff. It's a management leak, right? The GMs, the coaches, because the owners kind of let them, the owners don't know anything. Right? And that's one theory I had with the Chargers, and you see this with the Giants, is when you get the ownership who has family members in the front office, in the scouting department. Like, I like my owners to be like wheeling and dealing with business stuff. Even Jerry, he's the GM. He's not watching any film.

He's doing deals. And Stephen, they're making money. But, you know, the Spanos family has their kid who's involved. He's a good smart guy, but you get involved in football and there's too much crossover. The best owner, Clark Hunt, Andy, Veach, you cook, right? The craft for 25 years. Bill, do what you do. Lurie, Howie, Siriani, Doug, Andy, make me money, win games.

And all just, it's a unique business, right? Because you have this multi-billion dollar asset, yet the most important guy in your organization, the coach or the GM or the mix of the two of them, you don't really know anything about besides being a fan. So you can't really, even if your expertise, like David Tepper, he's this great all-time market guy, feet, footwork, when I see him telling coaches about footwork of the quarterback, I'm like, they're in trouble. You just, and that's why this business is so, once the owner gets involved, it always cracks.

Because most owners, like, are not Al Davis in the 80s. They know football, right? They just don't. And I think you're going to see with Walmart, these guys are very successful. And they're just going to let Sean Payton do whatever. whatever he wants to do, they're paying him $90 million to do that. So Sean Payton wouldn't shock me if he basically gets a new GM this offseason. And the Russell Wilson, I would imagine, is going to be one of the biggest stories heading into free agency, what he's going to do with him.

All right. Let's talk Patriots, Kansas City. Kansas City struggled in the first half, pulled away. So, like, one of the overreaching stories here is we'll get to the Belichick stuff in a second in his future. But the Cadarius Tony had another ball, totally catchable. office hands intercepted. Mahomes reacts viscerally on the sidelines. And I said it this week on FS1. It doesn't really matter because Rishi Rice is their number one at receiver. Kelsey is their number one. They need Tony. Skymore and Watson are not game breakers. Tony's twitchy. Can you trust him?

No. And as we talked earlier on this podcast, it does feel like it's becoming Buffalo's year. You know, Joe Burroughs gone. Maybe it's Baltimore. We'll see tomorrow night when they play. but we don't trust the Jags. Chargers we thought would be good. They're not. Denver, probably a year away. So you have this Kansas City team that's still absolutely viable in the AFC right now. They don't have to go through the Niners. They don't have, you know, going on the road and playing Dallas would be no fun for this team or Detroit for that matter. They already lost them at home this year, the Lions. But I look at Kansas City and I think it's one of these things. I think they're transitioning stage one of the dynasty stage two. And you generally don't win in a transition year. But as I watched them today, I thought to myself, they got about four games to figure this stuff out. I think Rishi Rice and Kelsey Patrick completely trusts. I don't think they have anything else there. They got a little, a little bit of a pop from the running back, their former first round. Clyde made some plays today. Yeah. I still buy Kansas City. I still think they can get to the AFC championship, although after Buffalo's performance,

I'm not sure. Where are you on the Chiefs? Definitely. I mean, I think, they are as every bit as viable as any team in the EFC because their defense on any given game can hold you in the teens. And to me, if you can do that, they've been winning like that this year, right? I mean, they're going to get to 11 wins, winning a bunch of games scoring between 20 and 25 points. So they are not beholden, like the Lions, for example, of we got to score 34 points to win the game. Like, they've been used to winning some 1917 games, right, some 23, 21 games. Even the day, how are you even in this game with the page? They just do not run away from me anymore. Those days are over. I think they got to regret, you know, passing on Leporta

last year, because you put a guy like him, if they would have drafted, you know, an offensive playmaker on this team, just one more guy. They'd be right there. Travis Kelsey, I saw, mentioned it to Jason on his podcast that like, we like Tony. We see him what he does at practice. Like you said, they are beholden to his skills because they don't have anyone else that can do that. There's a reason they traded for him in the middle of the season. But they're much better on defense. Their talent on defense is better than those early era on the dynasty teams. So it's just can the head coach who's an all time great, quarterback, all time great, can they make enough plays?

Can they draw up enough stuff to just get over the hump in some of these? A lot of the Patriot teams that won it were never the teams that look like the 94-9ers or the 93 Cowboys on the roster-wise. They just out-touch it. They out-tuffed you. They out-smarted you. They didn't fuck up. They didn't have a big penalty.

Like that's a cowboy problem. Like at any moment, you're like, oh, they could get a 15-yard penalty. They could do something stupid. They did it today when the guy ran into the punter. You know, you just never know. Andy, they're going to have to be very buttoned up and they're just going to have to win. It's not going to be pretty. They are not, if they play Baltimore or the bills or any of these teams in the second or third round,

like I don't expect them to win like 30 to 10, right? That's right. You'll be on the edge of your seat and it'll pull it out and it'll be like one of the great victories of the era. And that's what the Patriots had a lot of because they were not running away once they played the better teams. And that's this version this year. And I think I'm pretty confident this offseason. and kind of have a Patriot type, hey, Mike Evans, you want to come here, a little less money, we'll get you a championship.

And then draft heavy and some offensive skill guys like they always do. But I think they're going to be in the business the next couple years of doing what the Patriots did for a long time, getting kind of the older veteran, maybe take a little less and have a chance to kind of just play for a 12, 13 win team. But they don't have that guy right now. Yeah. And also, the Patriots, their margins were always tight except for the Randy Moss years. And they never won Super Bowl. So the only time New England blew people's doors off was about a three-year Randy period.

So if you go to the early and late stages, Patriots won a lot of 27-23s, a lot. And it was coaching and quarterback play and generally a big defensive play late. So I think Kansas City is built for an AFC championship and beyond. So let's wrap it up with New England. So Tom Kern is a reporter I've used for years. I trust him. He said the organizations made their mind up. I think it's time.

I think they're tone deaf. It just doesn't work. Build them a statue. I don't, you know, I was talking to somebody in the league who I trust about the Chargers, and they said, you know, I'm not sure Bill would tolerate kids in the front office. Like, it just wouldn't work. And that's the way the Spanos has worked. Washington's got a lot of money, and they do have weapons, which he's not great at drafting,

but they don't have the quarterback. He's got a lot of property in Nantucket. He's not good in the front office. He can't do a Parcells and go down to Miami, hire his coach and do the drafting. That's not what Bill does. Like that was Parcells or Jimmy. I thought Jimmy Johnson would always come back and like do a front office because Jimmy was such a great personnel guy.

I always feel, I always felt Jimmy would say, I want a coach. I want a life. Give me four or five million bucks and I'll run the front office. Six million bucks. He didn't. You wanted to fish and I get it. But I can see Belichick just not. coaching. Can you? No, because I've envisioned him as like an 83 year old coaching high school team.

Like I, you know, coaching the kickers and the punters. I think, I remember being told a long time ago by a guy in college football who was close with Sabin. And this was when USC was going through the Clay Hilton stuff. It's like, could USC just offer him an amount of money he could never refuse? Kind of like Texas tried, but even more. And he's like he would never come to the West Coast. He's told people like he's not, honestly, the Austin, Texas was, little too West Coasty vibe for him. And when I think Bill Belichick, I just think the Eastern Seaboard, you know, his entire career has been spent there. It kind of fits his personality, the type guys. It's a little more gruff.

You can be an asshole, even separate from the organizational setup with the Chargers. So I expect him. And to me, I think he's earned the right. They should fire him. Like, not try to trade him. Just have a clean. Fire him. Let him choose his destination.

You shouldn't be worried about. about him going somewhere. Now, I could understand, like, if the bills fired McDermott, would you want him going in division or the jets, even though he hates the jets, but you never know, maybe out of spite, he's kind of a spiteful guy. I think it's tricky because he's earned them, him and Tom, them so much money, right? He has been one of the great employees in like the history of America. Now, he hasn't been the easiest guy to deal with, but he's, but from the pocketbook. So I expect him to go to Washington, that would be my best guess, would be the Washington commanders, he's their head coach. And it probably, I don't expect them to be some powerhouse.

And I don't think he clearly is still a pretty good defensive coordinator. He can bring Josh McDaniels with him, which I think makes him a lot more desirable. Because it's pretty clear. Like without Josh McDaniels, he's not exactly the same guy. Billy O'Brien is not as good as an offensive coordinator as Josh is for Bill. But to me, the Washington commanders, doesn't just make a lot of sense, kind of that region, that area? And they would pay him, they'd make him the highest paid guy. They'd give him a five-year, $100 million deal.

It'd be public, $20 million a year. By the way, D.C., he would be able to get on his private jet and go to Nantucket. It's close. It would just, for his lifestyle, by the way, he's got places in Jupiter, Florida, Nantucket. It's easy. It's East Coast. I think Tomlin, and listen, whether they fire them or not, I think it's over. A lot like Bill.

Their record isn't as bad, but what are we watching? This team is worse than they've been, even if they end up going nine and eight, they stink. I mean, they got work. To me, like Bill, to me, Tomlin has a lot of similarities with Andy. and McCarthy when they both got fired in Philadelphia and Green Bay, and they both resurrect their career other places. To me, he's a huge personality. He's a big name. I actually think he would make a lot of sense with the Chargers. He just knows what he's doing. I heard you talking about it on Friday. So let's do that. They need some culture. Let's talk right now. Chargers talk. So this has been discussed.

So I know two network executives that would absolutely hire Tomlin tomorrow. For sure. He'd be great on TV. But I do think the Chargers make sense. He doesn't necessarily give a rip about personnel. He would look up and go, here's what I don't want. I won with a star quarterback. I don't want to back up.

You could get out of the Kenny Pickett situation, which is weird. It's dicey because he's a local kid. The Steelers don't want to send him shipping. They're going to be totally sensitive with Kenney. he pick it and he's just not he's just not good enough period he's like the 12th best quarterback at 13th best quarterback the aFC like it doesn't work i think it's a time to exit you leave you got super bowls you have the stories for a month networks vying him vying for him i don't think he wants control in the front office he won't get it so i i actually think tomlund of the chargers makes a ton

of sense yeah to me we talk about the charges a lot like the clippers well what did balmer do he went out and got Tyloo, a real coach. Now, basketball's a little different, but to me, there's a name recognition that gives them some just headline power in Los Angeles. And he's proven to be very serviceable. And to me, they can't afford. Like Ben Johnson might go on to be the next Shanahan and McVeigh. Or he might just be like the next Joe Judge or some other coordinator who flops.

They need to get a guy. That's why Belichick, Harbaugh, Tomlin. To me, Dan Quinn is a name, but he was not that successful when he was. Kyle Shanahan left him. Say what you want about Tomlin. He's had a lot of different coordinators, and he's consistently won.

I mean, Dan Quinn bottomed out. Tomlin never bottoms out. And he just, if you ask Andy Reid and Sean Payton, to me, the number one coach, they would not want to go to the Chargers would be Belichick, right? They probably don't have to worry. And then it would be like Jim Harbaugh.

People that know what they're, they would much rather sign up for some coordinator who's just going to be learning on the job. And that's what the Chargers, I'm not confident that they're going to do any of this, because they have consistent. shown to hire coordinators who are just cheaper. I don't know how Dean Spanos, who has gone through what he's gone through over the last

decade with the three different coaches and what just happened on Thursday night against Mark Davis. Say what you want about Mark Davis. He at least tries to buy people. Josh McDaniels, John Gruden, it hasn't worked, is blown up in his face. But I give him effort credit. Like he's willing to spend, I don't know, the monopoly money that the league gives him, that the Niners and the Cowboys, you know, and the Chiefs are generating on television right now. And to me, that's what Dean Spanel.

Like, this is not money that he just has to earn on his own. He gets handed to it from the league. So just give out, you know, some $20 million contract or whatever Mike Tomlin would cost if he's available, which I kind of expect him to get fired. And get a real coach for the first time since the Marty Schottnheimer era. Think about that. That's a long time. Yeah. No, they've, and I said this the other day, the Chargers need a culture creator, Mike McCoy, Anthony Lynn.

Brandon Staley, whether it's their persona, their DNA, they're not culture-creating. They're position coaches, Colin. They're position coaches. And so to me, Harbaugh's a culture creator. Belichick is, Tomlin is, spend money. I mean, did you see what the NFL handed each team this year revenue? Like when it's all said to $400 million? $400 million.

You're not going to pay a coach 12 and a half? You've got to be kidding me. Look at what Peyton has done to that shipwrecked. just 12.5 million bucks. You pay your quarterback 30. What are we doing here? Like it just this money is the greatest thing to own in America outside of maybe Google or Apple is an NFL team. Just buy a coach. Well, think about it. Your expenses. What's the salary cap? $210 million. So you have $190 million. Your sales guys don't cause that much money. Your West Coast Scout, you have $190 million, but that's year after year, right? You know,

of 125, 150. That's a lot. What's Dean Spanel doing with all this money? That's not even counting any other money that they generate. But they are just unwilling to spend it. And you just look at the NFL. Who are all the best coaches? They're all the guys winning.

John Harbaugh makes a ton. Andy Reid makes a ton. Kyle Shanahan makes a ton. Right? I mean, you get what you college. All the top guys make a ton of money. Like, that's just the going rate for a coach. You cannot be at the bottom of the rung and expect to win.

And then complain about it. Because they've been doing, they've been spinning their wheels in the same situation from a coaching standpoint. I do think it gets back to kind of their organizational philosophy, a lot of cooks in the kitchen. So they got a lot, this month is a big time for them just to do a little looking in the mirror and like, do we really want to win or we kind of want to do it our way. John Middlecough, the voice of John Middlecough, three and out. You see the hat. That's his podcast. He is as good a voice on the NFL as there is in this industry. Every Sunday night, we chop it up. It's live on YouTube, becomes a podcast. John, as always. We're going to be breaking

down some college football games probably next week. It's great to seeing you. Good seeing you too, Colin. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an

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Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices. that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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