The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Micah Parson Contract Circus, George Pickens LOVES Being A Cowboy, Can Schottenheimer Succeed?

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Colin’s joined by Cowboys reporter Matt Mosley who is live from Cowboys training camp! They start with the circus surrounding the contract negotiations with Micah Parsons and how it’s overshadowing the Cowboys camp (3:30). They discuss the offseason addition of George Pickens and what it will mean for the offense when he’s paired with Dak Prescott and Ceedee Lamb (5:30). They pivot to Jerry Jones and what his presence at camp has been like at his advanced age (8:30), and evaluate whether there’s any chance for Brian Schottenheimer to succeed with Jones looming over the football operations (12:30). They discuss what the best case scenario would be for the team in 2025 (18:00) and debate whether Schottenheimer’s old school style of offensive coaching will work in the modern game (30:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. like, you know, I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Matt Mosley has been to a lot of Dallas Cowboys camp. It feels like they're getting stranger every year.

Is Jerry morphing into an old Al Davis? So how many camps have you been to? Well, I guess you start in 2003. and you never stopped, you stopped 2025. So every, every Cowboys camp into even the COVID, that was strange. You had to, yeah, they limited the media. So you really had to show like all your credentials that and really, but yeah, every, every training camp since 2003, which was in San Antonio and the album.

So, yeah, the Rams and McVeer are kind of scrimaging with the Cowboys today, which are, I think most teams really like that over exhibition. games, preseason games. So just from afar, you know, you have to be careful about OTAs and mini camps and camps. So the Micah thing from afar feels like a circus, but when you're covering it, does it feel like a circus? Yeah. I mean, I've seen a circus and it involved Terrell Owens and his arrival here in the cryo chamber or whatever he had, the barometric press, that he brought out, all the weird stuff he had. That was circus-like. But yeah, this is, it's a circus from the outside and here because you have the star player out there. Yesterday, I got out early

to practice and watched him. He did not wear his team issued jersey, which Schadenheimer wanted him to wear. And then they went and talked to him and convinced him to put on his jersey. but I'm just, no matter what's happening in camp, it, it's like looms over everything. And so I have been at camp before when there's a big thing going on or a huge trade. I remember the Eagles beat the Cowboys to Oshamwa, you know, the big, the cornerback, that nomaday Oshamwa one year. And boy, Jerry, beating over that deal because he was trying to get a deal. And that was all happening in real time, and we watched it all happening. And this is a little bit like that, and that daily, we're spending as much time with our cameras and our eyes on Micah as we are what's happening on the field.

And it's too bad because I think while Micah and Schottenheimer have really developed a nice rapport, I feel like it's overshadowing and somewhat undermining this whole operation. Well, I mean, lost in all of it is the fact that George Pickens, a really did. difficult guy to cover. I mean, he's a very gifted guy. Emotional, can be juvenile. But with C.D. Lamb and George Pickens, just in terms of pure talent, those are tremendously gifted receivers. What are we getting from that side of the football, football-related, Dax, C.D. and Pickens. You know, I would say, and we had a good long visit with Pickens yesterday, doing our Doomsday a podcast with Ed Wurter. And you talk about a guy who is in heaven.

I mean, it's remarkable. And he and CD together, it's the best duo they've had in many years. You know, CD and Amari Cooper were together. I think there's the potential because now CD's older and he's become a superstar. And Pickens is in such a good headspace because he needed to get out of Pittsburgh. It's a contract year. It's just like the opposite of Micah's thing. Micah is just this, all this drama.

George could not be happier. And he believes that he's in, you know, I know we go back and forth on what Dach Prescott is. But what Dack Prescott is is way better than anything the Steelers have had the past three seasons. And so, right. Right. Pick as old as yesterday. He said, I'm going to go for 1,500 yards this season.

And I wouldn't, I wouldn't doubt it. Because one thing they're trying to do is instead of just throwing Faye, and vertical routes and go routes, because they're hitting him on bubble screens, drags, crossers. And I even watched him yesterday. There was something the Cowboys did on a rub route to get CD open. I mean, I'm just telling you, this guy is the happiest guy in camp. Like that, I came away from that George Pickens, Zerebue thinking, I have not, you know, Tio is always brooding and weird. and again, I had a really rough relationship with him and all that.

But this guy is just, beaming. Now, get it. Let's see how he is when they don't throw to him for a whole game or something like that. But right now, man, those connections look good. And what it's done, it's freed up whoever's going to be third wide receiver, Jalen Tolbert, Mingo, Jalen Brooks. Like those guys now have less pressure on them. And like yesterday, two of those guys made like incredible circus catches.

And I just think they have less pressure because you have two stars and they can just go be. That's what Aitman always used to tell me is that he cared more about the third receiver than he did the second receiver. And what it was is he just felt like with Alvin Harper and Michael, they paid so much attention that Kelvin Martin was his favorite guy because he knew he was always going to be opened. So anyway, but I would say right now the receivers plus the quarterback. that's a very positive thing about this game. You know, Matt and I've said this, is that we all know there's about eight really great quarterbacks in the league, and I'd argue there's about eight great coaches, and I would similarly say there's about eight great owners.

I definitely think 25 years ago, Jerry was thought of as a real maverick and a real risk-taker and willing to push the boundaries of what the NFL would allow. I do think he's become a little bit of a liability as an owner. At Camp, does Jerry hold court, I mean, his age, obviously, I always see him. He's got the long sleeves and the hat. He doesn't, you know, the burning sun. But what is camp like with Jerry now at his age? How present is he?

Same. Maybe not quite as visible as he once was. Maybe because of this Micah thing, maybe not quite doing as much media. But, hey, look at what he did the other day. Colin the thing with the asked for a trade. Saturday, Jerry was waiting on it. Come and get it, folks. Come and get it.

Gather around. I'm going to settle this thing down. And right now, Micah hasn't spoken again. And Jerry basically his old response was like, this is just a joke. This is all laughable. He's not going anywhere. We're not trading him. And so in some ways, he's still able to, again, I get it.

It is a circus. He likes it. And there's something, I've heard you talk about this recently. I think this Netflix thing is coming out where they're going to treat him like the Jordan treatment where he gets like nine episodes. By the way, Edwarder drops an F-bomb. I'm told in this in one of the later episodes, which really, I know bothers all of us that he's using that kind of language. But, yeah, this is going to be. this will be fascinating to watch how all this plays out.

But I'm telling you, Jerry knows this thing's coming out. And if you think he's not letting this mic the thing ride and knows that everybody's paying all the attention to it. But his whole thing Saturday was like, I got to get out there, calm this down and let everybody know I'm still in charge. And he is. Now, he's still the face of it. The only thing I would tell you, it's a little different guy came by yesterday and I had a visit with. Will LaClay behind the scenes, when it comes to any sort of personnel, I mean, there's a reason he's had opportunities to be a GM elsewhere. I think they must take care of him huge financially here.

He's making tons of decisions when it comes to personnel. You know, Stevens heavily involved in all of that. But right now, this Micah, Jerry, Stephen, it's a, it's part of the Netflix documentary to know. I mean, that's what it is. And this will end, like every one of these negotiations end. That's what's funny to me that everybody jumps through these hoops and goes, he's not going to be here. I bet they're going to trade him or I bet he's going to, this is going to end poorly. It's going to end on September 1st when he signs a monster deal and he comes out and all is forgiven and we all move on. There's no, like, I don't even give it, I barely even give it a 1% chance of him missing a game.

There's no way he can. It's the reason he's here. You can't really send a strong message in a holdout if you're in your jersey at practice every day. But what kind of holdout is that? Emmett was a real holdout. Like 1993, Emmett held out for two games. He had the ultimate leverage because they went to 1-2. And then they had to bow down and give him what he wanted.

So this is, again, a lot of this is fluff. But it's fun. It's fun. I mean, but to Jerry, it's all like a TV show. It's just reality. I mean, I think it's understood. Brian Schottenheimer was one of those guys. He'd become what you don't want to become as a coach.

He'd become a bounce around the league guy. And I've always felt that Jerry hires coaches who feel like, like Jason Garrett wouldn't have been offered a job. Mike McCarthy was on the beach. Brian Schottenheimer wasn't going to get other head coaching offers. Jerry likes to be necessary. I've always felt that. it's fairly obvious that, you know, Jimmy Johnson didn't need Jerry at the end.

And Jerry didn't like that. And Bill Parcells didn't need him. But everybody since then, Chan Gayley wasn't getting a ton of offers. So I look at Brian Schottenheimer, and I've said there's an argument he'll be the weakest head coach in the league. It used to be that owners didn't like just paying off a staff, right? but that's when owners were worth 600 million. They're all worth $9 billion or $8 billion in up. So you're seeing Matt kind of regularly coaches and coaching staffs getting blown out after a year.

My take is by Thanksgiving, it's going to get really turbulent. And then Jerry is going to go out and go and spend big money on a coach, like a horrible ball level guy in the market. You're smirking at this, but I don't think the Schottenheimer thing, it feels a little like Freddie Kitchens, it feels a little like Brandon Staley, where we're all going, I'm not sure, I'm trying to think of the last coaching hire. Iber Flus had a feel like this, where we're all like, I'm not sure he was up for a lot of coordinator jobs. Do you think it has a chance to succeed, Shadi? I don't know if anybody, can truly succeed, the monster personality you're talking about, whether it's Sean Payton or, you know,

whoever, because that's who's come up over the years, you know, it's Belichick, it's just not happening with this guy. Because to your point, he's moved past the desperation stage. Jerry in his late 70s had a point in time where he truly thought, if I don't win another one before, before I die. This is going to, this is going to hurt. It's going to look bad. It's going to affect my legacy. As you said, Maverick, now in the Hall of Fame, he's moved past all of that. So, never, never underestimate comfort to Jerry. And a coach like this gives him tremendous comfort. Now, what he has to hope for, the huge upside to this is that this is somehow Pete Carroll 2.0. This guy worships Pete. He talks.

like him. He brings him up constantly. You get fired by him. We might want to remember that. But the only thing I would caution you on is Schottenheimer, at least, I don't know, might have been eight years ago, might have been 10 years ago. He was a hot name at one point. It just feels so far removed, okay, when he was with Seattle, when he started calling plays, and eventually he wanted to, he wanted, had a different offensive philosophy than he did. And they had to part ways. I will say this. I do talk to a lot of assistant coaches over the years that have been with him, and they are like, they can't say enough good things about him. You're right. I don't. I mean, again, it's a crapshoot. I can tell you what these practices look like. I would say the team is responding to him

in a way they did not to McCarthy. I'm just talking about the way they act and the energy and everything I see from practice. practice just completely looks like a different kind of people. But again, you're right. Once the season starts, and the problem is, where do you find the wins? You are what I call the schedule savant. You commit all these things. You're two things in life. You like remembering schedules, and you like remembering depth charts and, like,

offensive lines. And you know, you have a great sense of memory. So you can right now go through your mind and go all the trouble spots in this cowboy scandal. and there's a lot of them. They've got to get off to a hot start. I would just say right now, the reason Micah's even here,

and the reason Micah hasn't just gone totally rogue is because of Shotman. I do think there's been a major connection with some of these players, and even Pickett's coming from Tomlin, who he respects. He didn't say anything negative about Mike Tomlin, but they're buying in.

They're buying in, you know, in a big way. So, but, I mean, think about what it would take for the Cowboys to break through this year. You've got to have two teams in your division underperform, right? I mean, that's the, it's really the only way you break through, unless you say all three teams to make the playoffs. You have to have two of your division rivals not meet expectations. And it's hard for me to see right now, even though it looks like the commanders have a little bit of chaos going on in their camp as well. But I promise you it's not like this. Yeah, it's, I mean, I feel I've come across, and maybe I'm tougher on big brands,

but like Notre Dame, I didn't think when Charlie Weiss left, I'm like, boy, I hope Marcus Freeman's ready to go. He's blown me away with his in-game coaching, his recruiting. And it's always ebbs and flows. Like the Yankees right now is a big brand. brand feel like they underachieve. The Lakers, over the last seven to eight years, you know, they had the COVID championship underachieved. Maybe I pay so much attention to big brands. I just, I feel the demise of big brands is usually when they get really insular.

And I felt it with the Lakers when they hired Rob Polenka was Kobe Bryant's agent. And they had like Rambus, and I know Kurt Rambison, love him. And they had, it became very insular. And I do believe the Cowboys feel like they don't have enough outside influence and outside eyes on them. I mean, they have some good players. They don't feel like Philadelphia or Detroit or Baltimore, Buffalo, Kansas City, Rams, they don't feel that talented. But I think the best case scenario for Dallas, it feels like to me, is that the offensive line, which, you know, they've spent some draft capital on it. Like they haven't ignored it.

If the offensive line gels and is a notch better than I think they, I think it's very middle of the pack. Last year, I thought it was very middle of the pack. If the offensive line performs, Pickens and C.D. Lamb and D. D.Lam and Dack have a real relationship, a real chemistry. They have a little bit of a big play offense down the field. That's a, and I think a lot of it, you know, there's an argument. The three things that matter in this league are quarterback. coach and the most important unit is offensive line. It's almost impossible, Matt,

to have a good offensive line and be a bad team. The top offensive lines right now are Philly, Detroit, Broncos, Sean Payton's cleaned it up. It's hard to be bad with a good O line. That's why the Packers and Patriots, like the Packers forever have never had, just don't have bad offensive lines. Chicago can't get it together, but they have good players. So I guess if the O line stabilizes because they got some young draft picks on that. Where are they, that's the best case scenario to me. We look up and go, oh, shit, the offensive lines actually in that top eight to ten, and DAC feels really comfortable with Pickens.

Is that a possibility? The O line. Okay, you make a great point. They've got a big left tackle issue right now because they thought Tyler Geithen, who's a former first round pick out of Oklahoma, had made a big jump-thus-off season. he's hurt. And I think there's a chance he misses the first, you know, game or two of the season. And they have a guy in Nate Thomas over there.

He's actually playing pretty well. They brought in Tyler Booker from Alabama. He had lost his job early in camp. I think they just used that to kind of motivate him a little bit, whatever. He's kind of filled back in. He's okay. Tyler Smith is a great player, all pro, guy. You know, Terrence still has to be better. You're right. It could be, it could be okay. I'm saying

right now it's a major car. Because they got some moving parts in that area. But so, that guy, I just mentioned Nate Thomas. I got to say, and I'm about to watch this joint practice as we record this today, I'm telling you, man, he is, and maybe this says something about the Cowboys edge rushers right now. He's looked really, really good. He's in the second year, Louisiana, and he got hurt last year for the Cowboys, and he stepped in at left tackle, and he looks like, hey, the starter. He looks like the guy. So we'll see how he performs. I would say when Micah comes back, here's one other good note where we're talking about edge rushers and we're talking about offensive lines and all that. This is Araku, this second round pick

at a Boston College who played for Bill O'Brien, scare him. Like, just he's a little undersized, but man, if Iber Flush was able to work some magic with him, he's racing around dudes. and Fowler, Sam Williams, this Marshawn Neelan, there is some depth at the defensive end position, and then you have Osi, Osa, Odigizua on the inside, and this guy tightest week. I didn't think it would be okay on defense. And hey, Iber Fluse, for all the embarrassment of the hard knocks and the season that he had, I think he's regarded as a really respected defensive mind and a defensive coach. So I think you hit on it. I think O-line, we got to watch that closely, and then we got to watch that secondary.

Because, you know, Mike is not the only one moping around here. Trayvon Diggs is doing some big-time moping right now. And they're having trouble getting his jersey on it. And they withheld some money from him. And I look over there and I see him. I mean, he and Micah are the Mote brothers. They're just kind of sitting over there unhappy right now. And Trayvon Diggs is a huge part of what.

they need to be because he's the deep takeaway guy. I'll tell you the former first round pick that you remember from the Buffalo Bills who's here, Kyre Elam, he's been great. He said three or four picks. I mean, just in the past, you know, a few days. And he has emerged. And I covered his dad, Abe Elam, I mean, he's been good. But those are the positions.

But right now, they're going to be fine at a linebacker eventually. They're good on the defensive line. Major question mark on the back end. and you brought it up, the offensive line will probably tell the story. Way better options at running back. I will say that. And I'm not saying to blow you away options, but fun rookies, like two fun rookies. One, Jaden Blue, who's extremely fast at the University of Texas, Mafa, who's a bigger dude, who they picked later.

And then Jumante Williams is going to start for him. And he looks fine. He looks fine. I mean, they got several backs, a couple of backs, and, you know, Sanders. and Williams who were good about two or three years ago. But I think they are to be better at running back. I do think that. And this guy will run the football.

Okay. The last guy did not like to run the football. And right now, teams that are committed to running, Super Bowl champs, teams that commit to it, good things happen. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and firing off a few bets, all with Draft King's Sportsbook.

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168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dKNG.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news?

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I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You'll find that most, like, Baltimore runs the ball. Buffalo is better since they got James Cook. Even the McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan, they're seen as offensive guys. LaFleur loves to run the ball. Most of the really good offensive coaches are not Mike Martz. Like, they want to run the football, the young coaches right now.

What I worry about Schottenheimer, and I've said this, I think not that analytics are a huge part of football like baseball, but I do think, and you're noticing it in the NFL, that the quality of offensive coaching is smarter. So it used to be, for instance, if a quarterback failed, he got drafted and failed with his first team, he was screwed. Drew Brees was an outlier. Now you're seeing Baker, Gino, Darnold. You're seeing multiple quarterbacks. How is it they bounce and they work for a third team or a fourth team? And the answer is because there's so many good, young offensive coaches out there. It used to be a defensive league where if you didn't work with a team that drafted you,

you'd probably end up in a defensive coach and a defensive culture. And if he did have a good offensive coordinator, he was gone after a year to get a head job, I think there are so many smart offensive coaches that you're seeing all these rebound careers with multiple guys. I mean, like, Darnold, Gino, I mean, especially Baker Mayfield. Baker, like, there are Saturdays, hell, he looks like a pro bowler in the NFC. So what I worry about Schottenheimer, he's an old school offensive coordinator, not as much motion, not as many sets.

And I do worry that he's on the right side of it. He's an offensive coach, but is he a little bit of an outdated offensive coach? Because Lafleur, McVeigh, Shanahan, they feel very current, very, very current. Schottenheimer feels a little bit like the offensive game got a little sophisticated very quickly, and he didn't quite keep up. That's my take. I agree with they weren't serious when you have these big time office coordinators. And Jerry hated the thought.

The guy in Chicago now, the fact that he got, whatever he got, 13 million, that sickened Jerry. It's sickens him to have a first year coach. He cannot, he cannot stand it. The one thing I'll say on Shottie, tons of motion out here. I mean, that may not have been what he had to look back and really study what he was doing at Seattle and other places. They are so much more than with McCarthy, you wouldn't believe it. Lots of I got candy. And in the past, they tried to, you know, where it was powered or whoever they brought in, they love, they love talking about gadget guys.

Oh, we're going to try to get this guy a lot of touches. They never could do it. They never could stomach because they got the game. They didn't want to do it. And the only thing they had, it was like one jet sweep. They had nothing. They had no things to go to. I'm telling you, we're seeing tons of motion.

So I think he studied up on Shannon Ann and McVeigh. And of course, we'll see McVeigh, his team here today. I'll be as you can see the two teams against each other. But when I watch this offense, you can hear they started to massive music behind us to get ready for practice. But tons, tons more eye candy, more motion. And I've seen more rub routes in this. that I've seen in the last 10 years combined. And when it happens,

and it happens right, you'll see Shadi come racing down the field to celebrate. That's the only thing I would say. Here's the X-Fact. I don't think you're totally wrong in thinking, I don't think it was that rate of a higher. I'm not that inspired by it. But I've almost never seen a guy this happy and this, like,

like he's been, waiting for this his whole life. He's got his father's legacy you can think about. And he's emulating a pretty good guy. He's, he's trying to be the next Pete Carroll. And that's not a bad guy to emulate. I mean, there's only by one because you saw him. He's 75 years old. He's still out running sprints and he's throwing. He's a fun guy. And he think about the way they think of the Raiders right now. In one hire, in one overnight hire, I saw somebody, some did the other day. best coaching staffs in the deal. And I expected, like usual, the Raiders to be like the 30th best, right? Because you're just like, that's the Raiders. And they were like the sixth or seventh best

coaching staff. It's, it's suddenly he gave them credibility. It does stink for Cowboys fans that Jerry didn't even consider that. The thought of bringing in a Belichickian Pete Carroll, monster coach, monster credentials, you know, even the COA, even the, uh, even the, Johnson, even these guys that were young, inspiring offensive coaches, he didn't even dabble. He didn't even look at it. It's because at the end of the day, let's come back to what it is. He doesn't respect coaches.

And he never has. You just ran over it. Chan Gaylee, Dave Campo. You know, McCarthy was a retread as he had a Super Bowl, but he'd grown extremely stale with Green Bay. He wants color. He wants copper. Jason Garrett was the ultimate yes man.

Okay? I like Jason. I got along with him great. But I mean, you can't find a bigger yes man than Jason Garrett. So I will just say this. He's managed a mica thing extremely well. I like to look and see how I think head coaches, GMs are handling volatile, weird situations. And in this case, Shottie's.

been beautiful with me. He's been beautiful because he and Micah talk on the phone. They have a separate relationship. Shottie's not trying to walk that fine line. Shottie is identifying and supporting the player over Jerry. Garrett wouldn't have done that. McCartie wouldn't have done that. Campo. Sorry, Babe, here's this because I love Campo. None of those guys would have done it. They would have said, Jerry, how do you want me to play this? Shottie's handling it in his own way. which is to favor the player over management. And I don't think, I mean, I think that makes it look pretty good at your, at least in my mind. All right, get out there.

Rams, Cowboys, Matt Mosley, you have practice to cover. We appreciate 30 minutes, buddy. Get out there and do your job. I'll do it. And the Doomsay podcast. This is how I like to cover practice. I like to get that cat on backwards. And this is, I find that people respect me more when I give this one.

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