The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Michigan & Jim Harbaugh Under Fire, Big Ten Will Overshadow The SEC

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Colin pulls out his crystal ball to look at the very bright future for Big Ten football after conference realignment, and why it will cause the SEC to take a step back Dan Morgan, managing partner of Morgan & Morgan joins Colin to discuss the legalities around Jim Harbaugh’s suspension at Michigan and what the future holds for NIL deals in college sports. (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) 5:00 - Buying the Big Ten  11:00 - SEC Won’t Be The Dominant Conference 9:20 - Harbaugh’s Perfect Response To Suspension 15:47 - Legal Situation Surrounding Harbaugh Suspension 18:56 - Could Harbaugh Sue The Big Ten? 21:58 - The Future of NIL Deals Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Listen, we've all had fender benders in our life. Sometimes it's even more serious. People between the ages of 25 and 34, in fact, have the highest amount of drivers involved in car crashes. Be careful, but even if it's somebody else's mistake, you can lean on Morgan and Morgan. If you've ever been injured, check out Morgan and Morgan. It's the nation's largest injury law firm, 100 offices and over 800 lawyers,

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For more information, go for the people.com slash Colin or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone. That's for the people.com slash Colin or pound law 529 from yourself. This is a paid advertisement. Hi, everybody. We're going to do about 30 minutes. today, 25, 30 minutes on Jim Harbaugh, Michigan. I'm going to bring a guest on in about 10 minutes. 10 minutes. Dan Morgan is a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan. You know, this is a guy that

knows NIL will be able to sort of put his arms around for all of us. The Michigan situation, Harbaugh, Michigan, NCAA, Big Ten, compliance penalties going forward. But I wanted to start about this. Years and years ago, it was about probably 15 years ago, could have been a little bit longer. 15, 18 years ago, I went to a couple of the big shots at ESPN. And I said, if I was you, I would buy the UFC. And ESPN had a lot of East Coast people, a lot of baseball seamheads in management that just, you know, lived for the Yankees and Red Sox that thought that was much bigger than the NFL, anything else. And I said, I know it's not for you guys and from here. Vegas, L.A., but UFC is exploding. And they just didn't have, they just didn't have the stomach

for it. And I'm like, trust me, it's celebrities, it's high end, it's middle class, it's all classes, it's great. You've got, you've really got to, at the time, you could have purchased UFC, you know, pennies on the dollar. It eventually sold for $6 billion. I've talked about before. I've tried to twice buy into the MLS. I, um, I, I, back when it was $35 million a team, then it was $85 million a team. Now it's half a billion a billion dollars a team. MLS teams will be worth a billion dollars within five years. So my dad invested in the stock market. I've been in it since 1989. I like investing in stuff. I've missed. I've hit like anybody that's invested. But I was thinking about this today.

and many of you have a 401k, you've got a business. I think I really enjoy, you know, playing the stock market, and I have for a long time. And I was thinking if sports were a stock with this Jim Harbaugh story, you think to yourself, ooh, the Big Ten, oh, I don't know if this is good for the conference. The singular stock I would buy in sports in North America today is college football and specifically the Big Ten. I'll tell you why.

So Michigan, Penn State got twice the audience, just inches shy of twice the audience of the SEC game with Georgia this past week. And this is going to continue going forward, not because Harbaugh is controversial. So one of the things that Fox did this weekend, and it's really going to be the trend going forward, it's going to be the most popular conference of all time, is that the Big Ten by adding the West Coast, Seattle, Eugene, Los Angeles markets to the Midwest, Chicago, you know, Columbus, Ohio, Ann Arbor, Detroit markets. You already have the East Coast markets with Penn State, Philadelphia market, Rutgers, the New York, New Jersey market. You not only have three time zones represented, but the three biggest cities in those time zones, L.A., Chicago, home of Northwestern, and the Big Ten offices.

And, you know, Rutgers may not be, you know, a power, but, you know, it's the New York, New Jersey. market. That's much more attractive to advertisers than an Alabama-Oburn audience. The biggest money in this country is North. It's in Seattle, you know, Chicago, Boston, New York, Philadelphia. So advertisers are going to love this new conference. The biggest cities are now in each time zone represented, New York, Chicago, L.A., not to mention, you know, Detroit, Philadelphia. So, but by having three time zones in Fox City this weekend, it lets you stagger games. So at nine Pacific where I live, You could have the East Coast game. You could have Penn State hosting Oregon.

Pretty good game. In the next time zone, you could have Michigan hosting UCLA. And then late, late afternoon, you could have Ohio State in Seattle or in Oregon or at USC. And then in the late window, you could have Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA hosting another Big Ten team. Back to back, to back, to back, to back, multiple games. games that don't have to overlap with each other. And the SEC only have two time zones. And overwhelmingly, the conference is based in one time zone, the eastern time zone. And so you're going to have all these great games that are overlapped on top of each other. So the Big Ten is going to be going forward, starting next year, just game after game, week after week of high profile programs in affluent, wealthy, northern markets, biggest cities, L.A. market, Chicago market. Philly market, New York market. It's a huge advantage for advertisers, and it's a huge advantage for the conference. And, you know, the other thing is, I mean, this has always been, there's always

been big cities represented, Michigan, Detroit, Penn State, with Philadelphia, but now you're adding the Los Angeles market and the Seattle market. And the other thing that there's a big advantage here is Fox is the home of Big Ten football, the primary home. Well, Fox has a very football-centric network. So during the course of a college football season, they're going to promote the NFL college football and a little postseason baseball. ESPN has the SEC. They have far more sports to promote. They have a larger menu of sports to promote, which can dilute the promotion. The other thing that Fox has, which is a huge advantage, is Friday games. So it's Friday, three different time zones. Saturday. Bigger northern markets for advertisers. Over the next

five to six years, watch the Big Ten value explode, profile explode, television ratings explode. I was talking to an executive months ago about Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC added to the Big Ten. And he said, if sports were starting today, if you were creating a college football conference, you would literally create the Big Ten. you'd have like an LA, San Francisco, Seattle represented. In the Midwest, you'd want Chicago represented. And then in the east, you want Philly, Boston, New York, at least two of those three created. And he said, I mean, just think about this. He said, look at our presidential election.

Like what states will matter? Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania. He said, these are the discussed states. They decide our election. He goes, if you were starting today from scratch and creating a college football conference, you would create going forward what the Big Ten is. The economies, the cities, the discussion points, all different time zones. Listen, I love the SEC. You know, I even here out West, you know, I grew up watching Big East basketball when you had,

you know, Hoya Paranoia, John Thompson, Louis Carnacek at St. John's. I've never been a regional guy. I'll watch the best stuff. I didn't like Pac-12 basketball as a kid. I love the Big East. I've always loved SEC football. But I have found myself thinking about the choices I will make. And if you're giving me, people forget, Oregon and Washington aren't just good programs. They're much closer to Ohio State than they are Iowa or Michigan State or Nebraska. Washington's had a great coach four times. Don James, they won a national title. Rick New Heisle, they won Rose Bulls. Chris Peterson, they made the playoffs. Kaelin DeBore, they haven't lost in a year and a half.

Every time Oregon's had a great coach, Mike Bellotti with Jeff Tedford, number two in the country. Mike Bellotti with Chip Kelly, dominant. Chip Kelly with Mark Helfrich, National Championship game. Dan Lanning, top five, six team in the country. So Oregon and Washington are not just, you know, adding a better version of Michigan State or Iowa.

when they have the right coach, these are top 10 programs. USC eventually, a top 10 program. You know, Texas, Oklahoma are really, really good. Nobody would dispute that. But you could argue Texas is the most underachieving program in the country for the last 50 years. I love Texas, and I certainly would. And Oklahoma, is Brett Venables the right coach? We'll see.

We'll see. I think they're going to have some recruiting issues eventually in the SEC. But we'll see. But regardless of the hard-off thing, and I'm an SEC fan. Next year, if you're giving me Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, followed by Penn State, UCLA, I may watch parts of one SEC game, and I'm not in any way saying the SEC won't have good recruiting classes and good teams. That's not what I'm saying. Watch the profile shrink of the SEC.

Just go look at the Big Ten schedule as somebody who's not an SEC. are a Big Ten fan. You're me. You've moved all over the country. It's not close. It's not even close what games I'm going to watch. I've already looked at the schedule for the Big Ten and SEC. The Big Ten schedule is insane. You will not get me off Big Ten football next year. I don't say that because I work at Fox. I watch the SEC now. But it's going to change. This weekend, double the rating. Big Ten. It is going to change. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

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So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Dan Morgan's a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, for the record, intern for Mark Cuban while in law school. That's worth a podcast in itself. But I think the one thing, Dan, that jumped out to me, you know, there's always been sort of this presumption of innocence, and yet they suspended Harbaugh flying to the game. It almost felt punitive retribution for embarrassing the conference, retribution for embarrassing Michigan. It felt odd to me, but is it that strange? Is it, do you agree with that suspension? I personally do not agree with suspension. I'm kind of in the same camp that you are in, that he has been proven guilty before he had a chance

to prove his innocence just based on pressure from outside schools and whatnot in coaches and presidents, etc, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm kind of the same camp you are that this investigation hasn't properly flown the way it should have. All the information is not out yet and a decision was made. However, you know, did he do it? Did he know about what was going on? Did he direct what was going on? Those facts haven't come out yet. What do you expect from the hearings Friday in which Harbaugh says he might speak? So, you know, it really goes on to what does, you know, what does the conference bylaws say, you know, is it, if anything that happens under his watch, he's responsible for no matter what, and they have the evidence, you know, I could see a judge just saying, you know, we're talking about football here. I got a whole docket full of civil stuff that's got to get addressed and kick the can just denying to move on. Now, if there is an actual breach of contract or if, you know, the conference did kind of come to a decision without following their rulebook or, or their discretionary stuff,

then a judge might come in and say, no, you didn't play by the rules. This is a breach of contract and allow them to play. My gut is that the civil justice system isn't to get too involved here in football suspensions. But we have seen in the past where these conferences

and NCAA in general kind of think they are the end and be all rulemaker. And we've successfully have sued the NCAA in the past and have had decisions that they've made overturned. What is due, do, process for Harbaugh? So I think it really comes down, you know, to a full-on investigation of what took place, what did he know, what did that information lead to, you know, was it a rogue operator

that had, you know, non-employees that were going out and filming signals and he had no idea what was going on. I mean, I think it's tough to put him, you know, to be the person to punish for that. Now, I know we have all these different scenarios where they say it's a lack of institutional core of control. He's the head coach. But I mean, eventually you've got to say where does the line stop and start. But, you know, as far as

as what he could be facing, I mean, I think that the university has taken a position that they're going to back him completely. And they're going to kind of just take it on the head from the conference and then eventually the NCAA. Could Jim Harbaugh sue Big Ten football or Big Ten

conference? I think he, I mean, this is America and you know I'm a lawyer but anyone can sue anyone in America unfortunately that's just kind of the facts that it is so yeah could could have lawsuits them from this yes does he have claims to reputable harm I think that's what you know kind of main thing he was saying is it's going to cause reputable harm not only to the university if he doesn't coach or you know if they don't want a national championship or lose to whoever they lose to along the way because him not coaching what is that quantified to monetarily but in his kind of thing is too

is your label me as you know a cheater as a cheater as a someone that's spying on teams and using information, that's going to then hurt, you know, my chances of making money down the road. You know, I think if Jim Harborough is still in Michigan next year, he's obviously going to be making the same amount of money. If he's not in Michigan, he's probably making more money somewhere else. So, you know, the monetary damages might be tough for him to draw towards from a compensation base. But as far as, hey, you guys are defaming me.

You say, I'm a cheater. I'm not a cheater. Yeah, there could be a legitimate claim there. If you represented the University of Michigan, knowing that Harbaugh can bail if the action, if the punishment is highly severe, it's a weird space for Michigan. Would you caution the university to step gingerly? They are right now in complete, utter absolute support of Harbaugh. But all of a sudden he loses to Maryland and Ohio State. they get word from the NCAA that it's going to be more severe vacating wins multiple

year-long suspension how do you if you represented Michigan would you be a little concerned if Jim just I mean he doesn't have to be truthful exactly he could right he doesn't what's he held to if he's got a job in Chicago with the bears what does he care exactly you're representing Michigan your thoughts on that yeah so Michigan is definitely in kind of a tough spot because on one hand that they're trying to protect their national championship potential. They're trying to protect their wins they've already had. And they're also trying to protect making sure that if everything does go to plan, they can keep Jim Harborough as their head coach. Because I think if Michigan was joining in with the Big Ten right now and saying we agree with the suspension, it'd be a lot easier to see Jim Harbar in Chicago next year.

You know, or Vegas or Tampa or wherever else that needs a good offensive minded head coach. So they're kind of in a position where they want to support him. They want to make sure that he knows he's support him, I think, to kind of keep him on the Michigan path. But yeah, I definitely think that they run some risk, too, of if this investigation leads where it kind of looks like it's leading, which is if the NCAA finds in concert with the Big Ten and wins are vacated and, you know, bowl games are suspended and playoff breaches in the future or have to be missed, then Michigan's going to lose twice. You're very interested in the NIL.

The business of college football is changing now. I think it's going to grow. The Big Ten now has L.A. market, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Detroit. It's got the biggest markets in each of the three biggest time zones. But the NIL, the money's going to just keep pouring in the TV money. now players are being compensated. What do you think the NIL looks like in five years, 10 years? Will it look like just slight variations of what we have now?

I worry about paying high school players. That just feels dirty to me. What do you think the NIL looks like in five years? So, I mean, the NIL, I think it's going to look a lot more of the same, hopefully more rules and regulations, and there's not more guessing on what can be done and what can't be done. But I think what you're seeing shape up right now, as far as these collectives go,

I think it's to be a lot more of those in the future of, hey, let's bundle all our boosters together and pay kids, you know, that way instead of trying to go out, these one-off deals from, you know, a power aid or a big-time car dealer

in that one area to pay the player. You know, we've seen that more and more than more. We do deals of all sizes with NIL. So we've done deals with low-level softball play. and we've done deals with, you know, lottery picks and basketball and, you know, top five picks and the NFL draft. So we've kind of seen how it all shapes out.

And, you know, a lot of what drives it are the agents and the agents are kind of coming in tune to it too because they know they want to have players that get deals and that's what's going to sign them at an early time. But right now in Michigan, for instance, you know, they're selling a Michigan versus everybody's shirts. All proceeds are going to NIL players. This is going on with Jim Harborough. So all the fan base, you know, 10 million fans are now galvanized to buy these shirts. Hundreds of $1,000 are pouring in. And those are being distributed directly to the players, you know.

So they're obviously winning when that's happened. So anytime you can have an opportunity to get the money to the players to the actual students in a clean, legitimate way, I think that's what's going to kind of favor because, you know, we see it with an offensive guard isn't going to get the same looks that the quarterback gets at Kentucky. Now, we try to do a good deal of spreading the wealth out along the, as far as the players go. And, you know, at Kentucky basketball, we do a whole team deal where the walk-on gets paid as much as a lottery picks.

So there is some of that that goes on in the sport. But I think in the future it's to be more money, more dollars, and it's super competitive. I think you're going to see coaches like Jim Harborough and, you know, Nick Saban that don't want to compete in that type of environment where they might say, hey, you know, I had my run. We did my, we did the old school way now NFL or, you know, saving will probably keep doing NIL deal because he has one of the big. Mercedes dealers ships in the country. But as far as doing it with the players, I think you're going to have a new

style of coach, a new style of system, it's going to be heavily collective bases. And you're going to see these one-off deals where, you know, the right players will be making seven figures every year. And I know you said it kind of seems dirty in high school, but I think that's definitely the path that's headed where you're going to see a, you know, a phenom basketball player. You know, we see it now with overtime elite and elsewhere. These kids are getting half a million bucks at 14, 15 years old. Finally, let's pivot back to Michigan. What do you think transpires and how long will it take?

So I think, you know, what I would like to see happen, I would like to see Michigan be able to finish the season off cleanly, whatever it happens, happens, and then let the penalties rain down after. Do they get stripped after they win, you know, let that fall, you know, land where it lands and then figure out. What do I think happens, though? I think that on Friday that Harborough will give a galvanizing speech, he'll make his points, but a judge is probably going to not make too many decisions.

It's going to let the conference make their decisions if he wants to bring another suit later. That might happen, but I think that most likely he doesn't finish coaching the regular season with Michigan. We'll see what happens in that Ohio State game. Obviously, a lot of implications for the national title on that. But I think the NCAA might come in before the playoffs and make their decision too. I know they said they were going to have a decision by the end of the fall. So the national championship, you know, that happens next year. So, I mean, I can see a decision being made.

I could see him potentially, you know, if they're going to hold the coaches responsible no matter what, even if he had no idea or gave no direction. It could end bad for Drew Hallboro, but I'm hoping it doesn't. And I'm a Gator fan saying that. Dan Morgan, managing partner, Morgan and Morgan. Thanks, Dan. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me on. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert.

Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.