The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Michigan Overpowers Washington, Penix & McCarthy Draft Stock, NFL Landing Spots For Harbaugh, NFL Playoffs

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” joins Colin to recap the national championship game between Michigan and Washington! They break down the way Michigan overpowered and strangled Washington in a game that was never as close as the score (3:30). They rate the draft stock of both Michael Penix Jr. (6:20) and J.J. McCarthy (20:30), and look at the best potential NFL jobs for Jim Harbaugh (13:30). They also do a quick look at the NFC playoff picture (29:00), and weigh in on Draymond Green following his multi-year extension with The Volume (42:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. Welcome in live on YouTube, part of the volume. John Middilkoff, former NFL scout with the Philadelphia Eagles. He does the three-and-out podcast. He joins me every Sunday night for an hour. And we just watched Michigan throttle Washington 3413. I was pulling for Washington for reasons because John had a lot of money on it, and I am from the Pacific Northwest.

But I had said with John and on FS-Wan and Fox Sports, radio, I thought Michigan really matched up with Washington well. I thought their secondary would clamp down. They'd get a pass rush. You saw it tonight. A recruiting does matter, and Michigan recruits at a higher level. You know, one of the limitations for Washington has always been. They are geographically jammed up in the corner. Washington, Oregon, Idaho do not have a lot of Division I players. They have to convince kids to come up to the rainy weather. Michigan, more centrally located, you know, and sometimes it's a little bit easier in the region they're into recruit. Oregon and Washington play at a very high level and sort of overcome some recruiting disadvantages. NIL certainly helps Oregon because of Phil Knight and his backing.

But my takeaway to start this game was that, listen, Michigan felt they could obviously, they were going to pound them a little bit on the run. Washington was aggressive, defensively got burned. But I think in the end, Washington averaged four yards of play, Michigan average 7.8, and they just negated Washington's firepower. Washington has thrown the ball on everybody for two years. And Michigan's corners and pass rush just took it away. And then you had a very limited Michael Pennix, who doesn't move particularly well,

and a run game that was never great all season. I just, I kind of felt like I knew who was going to win this thing about eight minutes into it. I had like a feeling like, yeah, they're just going to lean on Washington. That was my takeaway. Yeah, I mean, it was 1710 right at halftime, but it felt more like 30 to 3. I mean, it was, Washington was very, very lucky, which you felt like had some momentum because they were going in half. They were getting the ball, and then he immediately comes out and throws an interception. But in that third quarter, I mean, Michigan couldn't get anything going on offense.

They only gave them three points. So it was 20 to 10 going into the fourth quarter. But, you know, Michigan is about to set the record, many people believe, or players drafted. And it's not super high in talent. It's 15 to 17 guys that are going to get drafted. You know, a lot of guys, third, fourth, fifth round in show the night. Washington's talent NFL-wise is all the skill guys on offense

the receivers Adun's A, the other two guys, and the quarterback. Well, if I tell you the quarterback, I would say has one of the worst games you've ever seen him play that mattered, you know, not some of the Stanford or the random games against Oregon, against the big-time teams they've played Texas. He had, I'd give him like a C-minus tonight.

They have no chance. And then the other thing that really stood out is Washington's offensive line, you know, won the Joe Moore Award, was the bet they got worked. I mean, that guard center combination was getting shoved around, the physicality. You saw Harbaugh's team look like the good NFL teams. They're just good at every position.

They tackle well. And to me, the player of the game is Harbaugh's defensive coordinator, Jesse Minner, which I'm sure would go with him. He's a Raven guy to the NFL. What a performance by him. I mean, shutting down one of the more explosive offenses we've seen in recent memory. Yeah, I mean, you know, Pennix had an off game. I kind of look at it like it's not a random off game.

He got pressure, not a lot of space to move, and people weren't open. And so he was off because he was pressured. He was off because there just weren't a lot of openings. I mean, you and I both thought Washington matched up really well with Texas. I thought it was like, oh, that matches up. Texas weak in the secondary. Michigan's got NFL guys in the secondary. So, you know, Penick, you know, Penix was just throwing that ball.

It was sort of jump ball situations. And, I mean, Michael Penix is still going to get drafted very high. But you can see the concerns about him. He is sort of a statuesque thrower. He kind of lets it fly. He doesn't like to get hit. You saw a couple times when he had pressure. He didn't want to get popped.

And in the NFL, if you go to a bad team, you're going to get popped. So you watch a Josh Allen on. on Sunday or Lamar, and they can throw, they can pass. Michael's going to sit in the pocket in the NFL like Tua, and he's going to throw the football. I think he's a bigger, stronger Tua, throws it up the sideline better than Tua. But that's sort of his comp. He's kind of a statuess thrower when he has time to throw. Does it hurt his draft stock? Certainly didn't help it. You're a former scout. I mean, you know, people are saying he'll drop out of the first round. I just, I think there's so much desperation for a quarterback. He may go down to 20, 25, but it doesn't

feel like you go mid-second, does it? No, I mean, maybe I'm a little biased, you know, living on the West Coast and rooting for them, and maybe I got a little over-excited for the Texas game because I like to ask my friends that are on teams that don't need a quarterback. So when they go into these schools, they have no agenda in evaluating the guy. And a couple of guys that are, you know, scouting directors had second-round grades on the guy. And, you know, a lot of people were pushing back against this top 10 talk after the Texas game because they go, he's an older player.

he's been banged up. Look at tonight. It looked a lot like some of those Oregon games where he's getting peppered and you go, God, is he going to be able to get up? Well, what happens when that's T.J. Watt or Fletcher Cox or Aaron Donald, those guys leaning on him all game long. So I understand the concerns. I'm bullish on him. I like him. Tonight is rough because the way you evaluate a player is against the best competition he plays. Right. So Oregon, Texas defensively is not. Right. So tonight would be the game that if you were feeling pretty good, about your second round grade, which I understand. Like, I understand the concerns, but I don't think you, you got to be careful in scouting

about overreacting to a performance like tonight because to me, he was really amped up early. He could never get into a rhythm and he was bad. I mean, guys have bad games, right? So I wouldn't write the guy off, but tonight is definitely going to be of concern in these draft meetings for these teams. Like you said, I would be, like, I don't see him falling out of the first round, all the character stuff. The medical is going to be a concern.

And when he goes to the combine, if anything, red flags with the knees, you know, just to wear and tear on the body. Because you draft a guy in the first round. It is about the second contract. Like, can the guy be an eight, nine year play? Do we feel comfortable about giving the guy a second contract? And I do think tonight brought up some fair questions. I still like the player, but tonight was a rough performance. Yeah, I mean, it was as I was watching the game, I said you have two contrasting styles,

a team that would prefer to throw, a team that would prefer to run, a West Coast Pac-12 team, a Big Ten team. Michigan made it look like a Big Ten game. Michigan made that game look like they wanted to make it look. McCarthy doesn't have to throw much, a couple of big throws to the tight end, take a lead, physically push Washington around. As Washington now heads into the conference, Michigan's like, okay, this is what we do. This is sort of what the kind of brand of football. I mean, Michigan doesn't have an elite receiver. Their tight ends, one of their more consistent pass catchers.

So I bet Michigan made it look like a Big Ten game. And you know the other thing that jumped out to me? And Michigan, for the record, is a very good tackling team. You pointed that out. You know, sometimes you have to watch a moment. You know, you can speculate and then you watch a moment. And I was like, I don't know, I think Harbaugh is going to come back to Michigan. As I watched that game,

and I watched the way Michigan played. I'm like, yeah, this would be the perfect time to leave. Like it was, I sat there and I'm like, he beat Washington, Alabama, Ohio State, Iowa, Penn State in a row. That's your last five games at Michigan. And you see his brother and you see the family. And I thought he's going to take his D.C. All these kids are leaving. And as I watched it, it's weird.

but it felt like his last game at Michigan. Does that sound crazy? Yeah, he's gone. I mean, I think he's definitely gone. And the one thing Jim Harbaugh has always done and was on full display tonight is his coaching staffs are so good. I remember going to a nine of practice when he was there,

and it was Vic Fangio, was a defensive coordinator who was with him at Stanford. Feels like he has a young superstar in this Jesse Minter guy that he got from his brother. Previously he had McDonald, that is now his brother's defensive coordinator. The Harbaugh's skills of accumulating, excellent assistance is an elite skill.

Because Jim is a CEO head coach. He's not calling the plays. He's a motivator. He's a program guy. That team felt like an NFL team today, the way they tackle, their physicality, their relentlessness. And listen, Washington's like a really good college team. That felt like we're good at everywhere.

Really our only flaws are quarterback. How much can we rely on him? But he clearly has NFL potential. We can talk about him from an NFL standpoint. But, you know, Harbaugh has built teams like, this when he's been at his best where he's a heavyweight fighter and he comes in I mean what they have almost 180 yards rushing in the first quarter they hit him like mike Tyson right in the in the face and it felt like it really wobbled Washington and they were

never the same after they were just holding on by a thread and because harbos teams typically unless they're playing crappy opponents aren't going to score 60 points you're always going to be in the game especially they were bad on third down but the game was never close the score was close the game wasn't close yeah again Michigan averaged eight yards of play Washington And the game looked like Michigan wanted it to look like. It was a big 10 football game. One thing we were talking before you hopped on is I remember during the Super Bowl, Jim was very uncomfortable playing his brother because Jim likes to view the opponent as an enemy.

Yeah, that's right. So going to the AFC, if he goes to the Chargers or the Raiders, his mindset's going to be a good playoff team. Well, he's going to have to see the Ravens. Do you think that could maybe force him to be more interested in Washington, Atlanta, maybe take Tepper's call seriously to just avoid his brother? Because that family is a very tight-knit group. It felt like a Harbaugh family reunion there tonight. Well, I mean, his brother coaches in Baltimore, I could see Jim taking the Washington job.

I mean, it's just right across the river. Yeah, I mean, you know, there is a reality. the NFL, it's like you start looking at these playoff teams. There's just not a lot of bad quarterbacks. I mean, it's DAC and hurts. I mean, a low-end guy is Baker, and then it's Goff, and then it's Stafford. You know, C.J. Straub. Washington has the second pick, so he would be able to pick basically his quarterback beside Caleb Williams.

Well, you know he wouldn't take penics because he went against him and saw flaws. He's not going to get Caleb, although they may make a run and move up. depends on what, you know, Chicago, you know, I don't trust their front office. They may move down to second and take a boatload of picks. Yeah, I think that's an interesting point. I know the Chargers, Albert Breer has said this, and I've been told the same thing through my sources. The Chargers are very, they realize what's happening in the Los Angeles market. McVeigh, once again, over delivers.

Lincoln Riley is a name. LeBron. I mean, the Clippers have four stars. Look at what the Dodgers are bringing in. It's a really distracted market. And if you're not, you can't go with another coordinator. Dan Quinn's not going to move the interest meter in this town. Mike Rable, a little, Jim Harbaugh, a lot.

So, but you have new owners in Washington and they're wealthier than the Spanos family, who I don't think, I don't even think they're middle of the pack in NFL owner wealth. I think they're, you know, as Mark Cuban says, poor billionaire. poor billionaires club in pro sports. So, yeah, I mean, the Washington one's very, very interesting. I like Washington's talent. I think Sam Howell's a backup. But you could certainly, you know, that's an advantage. Jim Harbaugh may see that as a, hey, I don't have an incumbent. Sam Hal can start. And by November 1st, we're bringing the kid in, a Drake May. So I think it has to be considered. But I'll say it again, I really did feel watching this

game in the second half. I'm like, yeah, this is, this is it. This feels like it's it. Jim is coached on the West Coast and likes it, but the Harbaas, they kind of feel Midwest. They kind of, you know, it kind of feels like they're part of the country. So we know he's probably not going to Chicago because of the president and he don't get along. And by the way, Kaelin DeBore for Washington will be at the top of Michigan's list. I mean, that's the story that'll develop three or four days from now. Michigan is going to go after Washington's coach. Well, I talked about on the podcast today.

Look at Washington and connect the dots. Their owner, his last two coaches as a sixer owner, were Doc Rivers and Nick Nurse to championship level big names, very expensive. Bob Myers, when they had to go get a coach, what do you do? They went after Steve Kerr. What's he always done? Big game hunting in Golden State. Spielman, Rick, who I think is a pretty good GM. I think the guy should get a second chance to be a GM.

What does he like? Physical football. Mike Zimmer, right, the way they played in Minnesota all those years. Seems like Jim Harbaugh's his type guy. So I think you start connecting the dots. I didn't even think about that right down the road from each other in Baltimore. He could bring his parents. You get to be around both families.

Makes a lot of sense. But there was a lot of reporting day. Arthur Blanks, 81 years old. He's got a ton of money. He's going to go big game hunting. I think Harbaugh, you said it. yesterday when we were talking that he's not going to interview with 10 jobs, but there are going to be some of these owners that are going to be aggressive for them are going to be very aggressive.

And the money is not going to be an issue for them. So these numbers are going to be really high. They're going to have no problem cutting an enormous check to just get the sit down. Like, Jim, we're prepared. We just want to get a yes from you. So Arthur Blank, Josh Harris, I think these people. So when we talk about the Spanos is for the first time, you know, really in the modern, they're going to have to, if they want to match these guys, because it's,

they do have the money if they want to match them, but their mentality is going to have to be aggression, which we could argue has not really ever been their thing, where Josh Harris is used to that, right? He's been in the NBA a lot where you've got to go big game hunting, clearly gets rid of Ron Rivera a lot, brings in Bob Myers. Like, this guy's very forward-thinking 2004, can Dean, and again, Mark Davis already has a relationship with Jim. And we talked about this. He's cut a $100 million check six years ago to John Gruden. So they're going to be four. or five teams willing to cut enormous amounts of money toward Jim, it's just going to be his preference. And I think Washington definitely has a lot to offer when you factor in the draft capital.

Yeah. And I think Jim, who is, you know, it's a big advantage wherever Jim goes. He's going to want some, you know, some personnel power. He's probably recruited Drake May. And so, you know, for him, it's like, who do I like more, Drake, May or Herbert? I mean, he may look at that and think, well, Herber's getting paid. I get four to five years of Drake May. I could see absolutely him saying, listen, I'm the third coach for Herbert. Like the first two didn't work.

If the kid's special, some of these guys should work. So, you know, I can, the Washington one's really interesting. And, you know, right now Jim lives in Ann Arbor and his, you know, mom and dad live right next door. So I think that's bigger than people think. I think the ability to have the Harbaugh's in D.C. in Baltimore. I think that's a real thing.

I could see that family saying, we don't want to make mom and dad fly out west, get on a plane, fly. They can just drive back and forth, get them a driver. They don't have to do all the D.C. driving. That's a real discussion. I can think that, see that family having. And again, Washington has the most cap space, the number two pick, a serviceable quarterback in Samuel. He's serviceable. No pressure to play him.

And again, I think their roster. is pretty solid. When everyone thought Alex Smith was one of the biggest busts of all time, Jim Harbaugh during the lockout convinced him to come back and immediately won games for a year and a half with him before he got that concussion. Look who he just won a national championship with. I mean, essentially a college game manager. Now, I know he has football, you know, NFL prospects, physical skills, but he doesn't play like that in college. So Jim doesn't look at it like, I need Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to win. That's not the way he's wired, the way he coaches football, because his mentality is we're going to build a dominant defense.

Washington has some players on defense, and he knows, like you said, recruited all these guys, they're going to have money to buy the guys. And offensively, it's in modern times a little bit of an archaic style, but it always works for Jim, right? It's worked for him for now 15 years. I'm, you know, McCarthy doesn't work for me. You know how like Russell Wilson got smaller quarterbacks drafted? the opposite, the inverse could be true, where a smaller quarterback fails and people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

When I watched McCarthy, he weighs about 200 pounds. Max? Yeah, Max. He just feels too slight. I watched Bryce Young, and I'm like, he just doesn't look the part. JJ McCarthy looks like a little taller version of Bryce Young, where he's just not thick through the hips. It's like he looks slight. Like he's going to have to really to get to 202.

You know, you start watching Josh Allen on Sunday night, and you start watching these star quarterbacks, like they carry 230, 235, Manning, Brady. Even Aaron Rogers is like 227, and he looks slender. So if you're battling to stay above 200 and he's athletic, but he's not hyperathletic, he's not Kyler Murray, he's not making people miss. I don't think McCarthy to me is like a third round quarterback. I don't really get it. Totally agree.

I mean, all this hype about him being a top 10 prospect is insanity to me. To me, he looks like a second day player for sure and a guy that can't play right away in the NFL. One, he hasn't been asked to play like that in college. Well, in the NFL, you have to make throws on third down, which they try to avoid at all costs. Look at the way they played tonight. They tried and they have, and you can make the argument, well, that's how they play. I think they're a little uncomfortable with having to lean on him. Where Washington's the opposite, they have to lean on their quarterback.

And as he's off, they're screwed. where they don't have to. But I'm with you. He obviously has a live arm and he's a good athlete, but to me, the frame, very thin and under no circumstances could I take him in the first round over what he's done in college. It doesn't mean he can't develop overtime. Ideally, to me, he's drafted on the second day, gets to kind of sit, get bigger,

and kind of progress. You know, Jimmy Garopp, a lot of players that get drafted on the second day, don't have to play right away. Maybe you go to a better situation and you get behind, you know, a guy that's already a starter. And you kind of work your way in. But let's talk about him being a high first round pick. I think that's a little bit of the media, you know, college football hype machine.

Yeah, I think we're going to have Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels feel like top 10. Bo Nicks will be somewhere like 11 to 16. I think I saw Bow play twice live. There's a little Drew Brees, high accuracy. He's athletic. He's pretty cut. He's more athletic than people think. but he doesn't feel like a top six-seven pick.

So, okay, so we both sort of agree. I think we both agree Harbaugh's off to the NFL. I think you've convinced me, Washington could have a slight edge. You know, in that division, it's interesting, too. So in that division, I mean, you've got to think about everything, although Harbaugh wouldn't probably spend much time on this. Mike McCarthy, Nick Seriani, right? Dayball's defensive coordinator just quit.

I saw Wink Martindale. The Giants have a lot of issues. I was told, and I said this on the pod a month and a half ago, the coaches didn't like them. And I thought Dayball was really good last year, but they have had a lot of strife internally. And there was a lot of talk. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. Well, one of the best assets on the coaching staff was like, I'm out.

Quit, which is not normal. That's a huge red flag. He wasn't fired. He said, I want out. You know, so the day ball situation. And let's face it, offensively, they haven't really been explosive. They're tied to Daniel Jones. And now they lose their defensive coordinator.

They've been excellent on defense. I mean, last year they made the playoffs because it's not like they were scoring a lot of points. So I would say the Giants are very, very in flux. The Eagles, we've never seen a 10-and-1 team leak oil like them. And the Cowboys, you can feel the pressure building, right? Every playoff game, if something gets weird, Jerry's getting older, is liable to do something crazy. Even he didn't really give them the ringing endorsement. going into the playoffs, right?

We'll see what happens. So I, yeah, I think Washington, I still think the Raiders are, you know, the history of football means something to gym. You know, you get a blank slate. Like you said, the Chargers isn't necessarily a blank slate. You get Herber, but there is a lot of other stuff going on. And they have some cap space issues. You've got to move off some people there.

Washington's got the most cap space. There's a romance about the Raiders. I just seen so many coaches. fail there. After a while, it feels like there's a systemic problem beyond just like the helmet and the logo. Like Mark Davis is one of the poorest owners. And it's, it's, you know, they've made some bad decisions on personnel, head coaching GM. So I, I think I'd pass on that. Yeah, I would too. I just think Jim's crazy enough to be, to be connected there, which, which I believe. And I think it's fair to say, it wouldn't shock me if he doesn't even pick up David Tepper's call at this point.

That organization's got a lot of issues, a lot of questions, and it doesn't really feel like Bryce Young would be. I mean, Jim would have him by about five inches and 45 pounds. So it doesn't seem like he'd be that interested in that quarterback. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English Each episode we pick it here unpack what went down And try to make sense of how we survived it Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill Waxing all about crack in the 80s

To be clear, 84 is big to me Not just because of crack I'm down to talk about crack on day But just so y'all know At this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack So I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now

So Thank you for finishing that. incentives. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's spend five minutes on this. So the playoff bracket is out. We don't need to go game by game, but I do think it's interesting. The game that really jumps out to me is the Rams against the Lions. Sam Leporta is hurt, the remarkable rookie tied in for Detroit.

You know, I went through, I went through, coaching is so valuable. I went through the Rams and the Lions today on the show, and I kind of, I wrote down things that matter. Head coach, Rams Advantage, quarterback, Rams Advantage. I like their wide receivers, Pook and Cooper, wide receiver advantage. if Leporta's out, tight end advantage, O-line advantage,

especially left tackle. It's Detroit, but PFF has the Rams as like the 10th best offensive line, and they're pretty good, left guard over to the right tackle. Jackson's an undrafted left tackle. He's serviceable.

He's not great. They're going to draft the tackle very early, I've been told in the draft. You know, my gut feeling on that is the lion should win the game, but you talked about the injury report. Dan Campbell said today there's an outside shot Laporta plays. I know tight ends don't drive lines in Vegas,

but I felt like without LaPorta, I mean, here's the thing. The Rams weakness, they leak on the back end of the secondary. Well, nobody leaks like the Lions. So I just, I don't know. I just found myself today, the more I looked at that injury report, I'm like, God, that could have be a bit of a bit of, a coaching mismatch?

I also think these playoff games, you know, the way it's one and done, all of a sudden the Rams, you're up 17 to 10, that place gets tight, Dan Campbell gets tight, he gets a little overaggressive sometimes. You can see that thing unraveling. The other thing, what gets with Jared Gough? Pressure. Now, he's a much better quarterback in a dome, in a controlled environment, no weather, but if they can hit him and what are the Rams, you know, Aaron Donald's going to be bringing

it. The young pass rusher, they drafted in the mid-rounds from Wake Forest is pretty good. So they can jet, Rahim Morris is, you know, a guy that's going to be interviewing all over the league. He's a really good defensive coordinator. That Laporte injury, he's not Rob Grinkowski or he can play at 70%. Like as an inline blocker, he's an athletic, he's a Kelsey type. So that is a devastating injury for them. Because to me, if they were fully healthy, you go, listen, the Rams probably top to bottom have a little, or excuse me, the Lions have more talent. Yeah. This guy is an elite player. I mean, he is a premium tied in. That's a devastating injury. So I got. to go with McVeigh and the Rams, which is sad because the Lions have had a remarkable season. It's only the second time in 90 years, Colin, they've won 12 games. I mean, Niners won 12 games like five times in the last decade. They've won it twice in 90 years. Yeah, and I do think, to your point, I mean, McVeigh, I mean, the Packers in Houston

are playing with House money because they got in. But, I mean, this was a rebuild year for McVeigh. So they're going to come in with a ton of energy. I mean, you know what's interesting. If you go look at the Rams season, the most impressive moment to me, Baltimore's off a buy, early start East Coast, they go out there and outplay them. And their leaky special teams lose the game. I watch Baltimore crush the Niners, crush Miami, crush Seattle, crush Detroit. And then I watch the Rams go out there and line up with them physically.

And it's like, okay, that's not an illusion. that loss to Baltimore. I remember after that game, I'm thinking, oh, this is all real. This is absolutely real. And then a couple weeks later, Baltimore hammers the Niners. It happens occasionally where you'll watch a playoff run

and you'll go back and go, oh, God, yeah, of course. And I look at that Rams lost to Baltimore, and I think, just look who Baltimore has manhandled in the last two months. Well, the Rams have a quarterback that when he's on is can go toe to toe with Mahomes, Josh Allen Lamar. Right. The 49ers can't say that.

He's not that talented. And Matt Stafford in that game, the rain was pumping and it was pouring on and he was elite. The other thing is their wide receivers are really physical. A lot like 49ers. They're willing to go over the middle, take hits. They break tackles. And it was on full display. I mean, Puka is truly one of the better rookie stories in recent memory.

I mean, he is an elite player. So if they beat, you know, the Lions, then they would play the 49ers, assuming the Packers lose. Now, I would take, I would pick the 49ers going into that game, but the Rams are going to feel comfortable, a team that they've seen a lot, that they've beat before in a massive game. There would be a lot of pressure. You know, the Niners would be favored, but they would have a ton of momentum going into that game because they've had to keep playing, right? Hell, they just, they rolled out Wentz, who they resurrected from the dead. So they have, it's cool to see that Sean, you know, turn down that money. He belongs in coaching.

Clearly he's reinvigorated now saying I'm coming back for 24. It kind of feels like he's on a year to year basis. But he's got to feel pretty good about his squad-headed in the playoffs. And let's face it, if they just win a playoff game on the road, what a remarkable season from Sean McFay. Because we all define guys over their championship years. But really, you build a resume. Like Andy Reid built a resume for 15 years every year going to the playoffs, winning games. when guys were hurt, when he had to go with a backup quarterback,

what Sean McVeigh's done this year with random young guys and some of his old core guys is one of the better stories of the year. Yeah. And I think, you know, that's the thing. As, again, Michigan thumps Washington. And I look at Harbaugh, who is, and Jed Fish was on my show today, the Arizona coach. And he said, Jim's the most competitive coach I've ever work with. I think Jim, I think John Harbaugh, he wants to face McVeigh.

He wants to face Andy Reed. He may not want to face his brother, but I mean, he's proven. Ryan Day is considered an elite college coach, and Jim's got his way with him, right? Kalin DeBoer is considered the best young coach in college football. Jim completely stifled their game plan with an NFL receiver and three NFL quarterback, three NFL receivers. I think Jim looks around college football and thinks, okay, I beat Sabin this year. I own Ryan Day, Kalin DeBoer, whatever. He's a competitive guy, John.

I think he wants to go after McVeigh. He proved he can beat Pete Carroll. He wants to go after Andy Reed, McVeigh. And if you're competitive, I think it's the next logical step. He's proved, I mean, God, and just what a fitting way. Saban, check, the rising star, Kalen DeBoer, check, Ryan Day, check. Like, it's just perfect. And let's face it, in the Big Ten, even with these teams coming in, half his games, he's the heavy favorite in him.

And it's just not the same. I mean, he's up 25 to nothing to half over the majority of the Big Ten opponents. In the NFL, I don't care who you're playing. You can play a random five-win team on a give. You play the Arizona Cardinals this year down the stretch. You got a tough game. So the level of competition is clearly so much higher in the NFL. And the coaching from an intellectual level, it's less about the motivation and more out there.

thinking you, more out scheming you, more putting players, making personnel moves. And let's face it, Jim thrived at that with the 49ers. I mean, really did. His disastrous year was 8 and 8. You know, people like, oh, he got running out of town. It wasn't that bad. How many coaches this year would have died to go 8 and 8? So Jim's ceiling, or excuse me, his floor is just so high.

And I'm telling you, his ability to build a coaching staff because he knows. Like he's not, he's not Mr. Scheme guy, like his brother. And what do they hang their hat on, having the best and the brightest? And they do a good job. We talked about this with Belichick, being so insulated with only the guys he's known from when they were 22. They will take young guys who maybe are 30 or 30 that have been somewhere else and then mold them. He did it with Jed Fish. He's done it with Sharon Moore.

He's doing it now with mentor. Harbaugh's the same way. And they develop coaches really, really well. Think how many guys get jobs. Like this is the difference between like I've always said about Andy Reid and Belichick. All his assistants go on and have some semblance of a success. A lot of them have a lot of success. and it's because he's open-minded to bringing guys on.

Same thing with the Harbaugh brothers. They're willing to talk and meet with anyone, not just because, well, you didn't work in this system. Well, are you good coach? Do you have qualities that I like? And I think Jim, I would look for his coaching staff. Like, if you told me next year, whatever job he has, that team's obviously had a bad year previously.

They're immediately competitive. I'd bet on it. I'd hammer the over of whoever he takes, I'll tell you that much. So the parents issue, you know, close to John. And they're clearly getting older, right? Absolutely getting older. Doesn't have to face his brother. And if you look at the NFC right now, there's not a lot of great young quarterbacks.

I mean, Jim looks out there and sees, you know, Josh Allen and Mahomes and Burrough and Lamar. You look over the NFC. I mean, it's, I mean, Stafford's great. but he's got probably two great years left after this one. It's a lot of, you know, it could be really, I mean, if he gets one of the two, he gets Drake May, somebody else in the NFC gets Caleb Williams. For all we know, for the next five years, those are the two best young quarterbacks in the NFC. Next year, this year's draft, it's going to be a great class, you know, in 2024.

The following year's not supposed to be as good. It's kind of a bit of a dip year. So, well, I'm just, congrats to Michigan. Who would you like more if I told you that Drake May goes to Harbaugh in Washington and Caleb goes with Iberflus and Getzi in Chicago? Who do you think is better right away? I'd probably bet on Drake May having more success immediately because of the country. Certainly in year one. Yeah, yeah.

I think, yeah, in year one, it would be Drake May. And I do, I don't think it could be underscored is that, you know, Sam Howell, a let you, you're going to be no pressure year one, right? Doesn't make any money. It doesn't matter. But it also allows you to go into camp with a pro. And again, Sam Howell with Ron Rivera is not Sam Hal with Jim Hardball. He's going to be a better version, the best version of himself.

And, you know, Jim, I could see him plan them until mid-November around Thanksgiving and say, okay, we're not going to win the Super Bowl here. All right, kid, we've shorted up the O line. You got some protection. Washington's got receivers, a couple back. I like. There's a lot about Washington. You know, I watched Washington a couple times earlier this year.

I think if they beat in Denver, they played with Philadelphia, and I'm like, they just need a better quarterback and a better coach. Like I was talking on a Seattle radio station this morning. I said, if you gave Pete Carroll right now, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen with that roster, you're going to the Super Bowl. It's like you get the quarterback right. It's amazing how it just, it just erraters. your flaws. I mean, I still contend after Stefan Diggs, Buffalo's offense is not that talented.

No, not at all. You watch it with Josh. You're like, what a big play offense this is. Totally. I'm just glad Jim, I remember as a kid, you know, I grew up around a lot of Joe Montana lifers, and they always kind of, I felt had it out for Steve, and you could feel it when they finally got the monkey off his back and Gary Plummer and he won that Super Bowl because he was a championship level player. and it just took him a little longer. To me, Jim Harbaugh's been a championship level coach. You know, just didn't happen at 48 years old, but happened at 60. And I'm just glad people don't talk to him about him as a guy. Andy Reid was that way for a long time. It's like, do you watch this guy, coach?

I mean, he's better than 98% of coaches ever. It's like he's going to be, he's going to get over the hump. And now Jim has a chance if he goes to the pros to, you know, join a small company of guys that have won on both levels, right? That's a pretty special group to be sitting at the table with. John Middlkoff, former NFL Scout, he's got a podcast three and out, so valuable to our podcast company, The Volume, which is just smoking Shannon Sharp, John, Jason Tim, Draymond Green. We've got just 520 is a new one, Daniel Cormier, the fantasy pros, love where we're at. Just keep listening. When are you going to have Kat Williams on your podcast?

You know, that thing. Oh, my God. I had people come up to me that I didn't even, I didn't even, I mean, I got people that went to the volume in the last week that I don't even think they knew what the volume was like a week ago. It was just crazy. Shannon's been such a, you know, we're very lucky we just signed Raymond Green. And, you know, it's, we can talk about this because that's what the podcast is for. Social media has really created an environment. It's an avalanche and everybody wants to jump on the avalanche and bury people. But nobody wants to jump on the avalanche and bury people. But nobody wants to. wants to grab a shovel and help people that have been rolled over in the avalanche. And when Draymond Green, it is, he told the story today, and it's absolutely true, we were in his house getting ready to sign the, we were negotiating the contract for over a year. We were in his house.

My staff was when Adam Silver called and suspended him. We're in his house. And I, we call, we said, hey, man, you want us to announce it today? that you sign with the volume, we're not going anywhere. We got our shovels here, man. Don't worry. We got your back. And I'll get pushed back for that, which I couldn't give a rip. But the point being is we live in this world now where if something goes sideways, somebody steps in it, you, me, Draymond. And Draymond's the first to admit, man, I had to get some help. I was really wrong. I did something really inappropriate. That I'm, this is a talent first company,

because I've been on the air for 30 years, and it's like, we all step in it. I'm not, we all step in it. Draymond's incredibly coachable. And he also acknowledges, I made a huge mistake, I apologize. So I love having him. People wouldn't have believed, I'm glad Draymond told the story. People would not have believed that we were in his damn house. And Adam calls and says you're suspended.

And he's like, oh, brother. And we're like, we got your back, man. Don't worry about it. We understand it. Listen, and the other thing I've always said, you know this is a warriors guy. So in hockey, if you have a great player, like a, like a Gretzky, you have a, you have a protector. You've got somebody that's on the ice. They're somewhere getting his getting on maybe the B or the C line, but somebody around to protect him.

Most great teams have a physical presence. The Pistons had several. If you took Draymond out of the warriors, and Steve Kerr has told him. a friend of mine who had covered the team. Draymond's so elevated practice, like this team got, you know, baskets came so easy for the warriors in the dynasty. They could get a little, a little sloppy. You know, there was sort of a globe-trotter element to this team behind the backs.

You're like, when points come easy, it's different if you're a team that's built on defense. When you're a team built on threes, points come easy that Draymond was such a catalyst, at practice to stay on guy's ass that Kerr, you know, he was there. He's like, I've been with Michael. Like, Michael, when you start winning these titles one after another, Michael held everybody accountable on a Tuesday practice against the bad Denver team. And so, you know, it's easy to dump on Draymond, but outside of his staff, he's the soul of that franchise. Sports sometimes needs to have a little crazy in them. You know, this is not peewee sports. This is not your typical office setting in an insurance company.

I remember talking to John Lynch one time. And I said, do you think they would have kicked you out of the NFL? This is a guy that's viewed as like super high character, Mr. President, everyone loves him. He used to kill people. I mean, he couldn't play today. And the sports that I grew up on, fights left and right in baseball. I mean, it's just, this isn't, I think sometimes social media magnifies this stuff.

Now, listen, Draymond, the hit in the Phoenix game was obviously over the top. But like the NBA I grew up on, I mean, they were all out brawls all the time. Just Google basketball in the 90s, not that long ago. And that was celebrated. You needed those guys. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan. Not everyone can be Barry Sanders. That's part of the deal.

I think sometimes a lot of people try to input their own situation in their own life in the sporting world. And it's just completely different. You don't get MFed by your boss on a day. basis like you do from a coach in sport. So it's, I like to have some crazy guys on my team, whether it's a podcast network or whether it's on my sport team. So good stuff. We knocked out about 45 minutes. John Middilkoff, listen to him at the volume 3 and out. Appreciate it, John. Nick writes on the show, I'm talking to him tomorrow, so that'll be released Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. And thanks everybody for hanging with us. Michigan 3413 earned that championship.

guest Harbaugh-Jettison's college off to the NFL. If he comes back, don't have a problem with that either. He's great for college football. John, we'll talk soon. See you, Colin. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

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