The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Michigan State HC Mel Tucker on Saban Influence, Transfer Portal, Harbaugh Rivalry

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

First, (3:00), Fake Questions, Real Answers, including what Kyler Murray got wrong in his Twitter attack on Colin, if KD and Kyrie really need coaching, if Jerry West should be raging mad about his Winning Time portrayal, if Deebo Samuel should force his way out of San Francisco, and what Netflix’s massive losses exposes about streaming. Then, Michigan State Head Coach Mel Tucker joins Colin to discuss what Nick Saban does better than any other coach (20:00), if the transfer portal has made coaching to much about recruiting (25:00), why it’s clear to him that football means less to Pac-12 schools (33:00), what he learned playing for Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin (36:00), the best high school football recruit he has ever seen in high school (46:00), if there is any reason to friendly with rival Jim Harbaugh (51:00), and what he immediately saw with Kenneth Walker III that sold him (54:00). Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herd    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. The Colin Coward podcast presented by Fandul Sportsbook, no better place to make every moment more than with Fandul. Basketball, football, they have awesome new and existing user promotions. It's easy to use. It's safe and secure. You can get your winnings back in two hours.

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This is going to be a really good one. Mel Tucker, Michigan State football coach, the craziness of the sport now with name image likeness, with the transfer portal as he spent all day on the phone recruiting. But first, fake questions, real answers. I've got things I want to talk about, but don't want to wait for you to ask me the question. Dear Colin, did you see that Arizona

quarterback, Kyler Murray called you out on Twitter. Well, yeah, I did, but I think Kyler Murray was confused about my five-minute rant on he and Aaron Rogers. What I said is, it's easier to build a culture as a head coach with certain athletes. Kyler Murray and Aaron Rogers, it's not impossible, but they are harder to build a culture around. They're wildly talented, kind of their own guys, have trust issues, can be kind of detached and aloof. These are my opinions. These are well-documented personality traits. Now, I would pay Kyler and I would pay Aaron Rogers. But Tim Duncan, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady are easier to build around. They lean into a

coach's culture. Kyler leans into Kyler and Aaron leans into Aaron. That makes it harder. I said this for years. I thought Mike Tomlin has built a very formidable culture. Sometimes Big Ben leaned into it. Sometimes he didn't. He didn't put the time in in the off season, that being Big Ben.

I don't worry about the work ethic by Kyler Murray. He insinuates in his Twitter post, He thinks I'm questioning his work ethic. No, not. I'm questioning some personality traits that are difficult. Listen, he was sort of a baseball guy. He was a football guy. He's been somebody as a smaller athlete who is absolutely and justifiably concerned about his health.

He wants the money now. I get it. Three years in a row, he's been better. And Arizona's getting better. But we all know this. We've all worked with people. Some people are salesmen. Some people are executives.

Some people can be bosses. People have personality traits. Kyler and Aaron's traits, personality-wise, are harder to build a cohesive culture around. Not impossible. Not impossible. I talked to Christian Kirk, former teammate of Kyler Murray yesterday. Now with Jacksonville, they've known each other since high school. They were tight.

But Larry Fitzgerald, A.J. Green, have both. come out and been fairly critical of Kyler. He got too much perhaps too soon. He's not always very verbal or communicative. It's not a criticism. It's a reality. Dear Colin, do you think Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving for the Brooklyn Nets deserve each other? Well, I don't know if they deserve each other, but this has to be said.

Two years ago, these guys went on a podcast with each other, and both were quoted saying, we don't really need a coach. Okay, that's delusional. Here's one thing, all dynasties, football, basketball, but let's state of football basketball. All dynasties have had in common. One thing. They've all had legendary coaches. Think about the NBA, the Showtime Lakers, Pat Riley, the warrior, Steve Kerr, the Bulls, Phil Jackson, the Spurs, Greg Popovich. Those are our four big dynasties. And that NFL. Go to the 70s, Chuck Knoll, Steelers. The Cowboys, Jimmy Johnson, the Niners, Bill Walsh, the Patriots, Bill Belichick, go to college basketball dynasties, UCLA, John Wooden, Duke, Carolina, Mike Chishefsky, Dean Smith. There's never an exception. The fact that KD. and

Kyrie tried to invalidate the need for coaching is nuts. I mean, Michael Jordan was not only the best player. coachable. Scotty Pippen was able to embrace the fact he would be the best Robin to a Batman in the league. In every field, the greats succeed by trying to push the limits, but they also succeed by knowing their limits and limitations. Katie and Kyrie don't get it. You need great coaches, not just great talent. Dear Colin, what do you make of Jerry West getting really upset over his portrayal in HBO's show Winning Time about the Lakers. What I make of it is,

Jerry demanding an apology and retraction will probably bring more eyeballs to the show. There's something called the Streisand effect. Barbara Streisand years ago saw pictures of her Malibu House, it's on a cliff, on the internet. So she was going to sue people

to have those pictures taken off the internet. Instead, the Streisand effect. When she tried to suppress something, more people went to the internet to find out where Barbara Streisand lived. So it's known now as the Streisand effect. Listen, when you're part of a Hollywood production, you do know this, right?

The bottom line is they're going to take your personality quirks or habits and then they're going to embellish them. I mean, Kareem was legendarily prickly and stoic. He's now prickly and stoic on HGH. Jerry Buss was a maverick and a bit of a playboy. He's like Hugh Hefter in this thing. And Jerry West was a bit of a hothead. So in the early episodes, they've made him appear to be a sociopath.

But by demanding an apology or a retraction, he'll drive more people to the show. Listen, it's Hollywood. They once did a movie about Jesus and embellished him. If you can embellish him, you can embellish an NBA executive. Chill out, Jerry. Dear Colin, Debo Samuel wants out of the 49ers. What could he learn from the careers of other NFL players? Well, with coaches, talk show hosts and quarterbacks, I don't think you should be driven by money.

Money can be in the back seat of the car, but I don't think it can be in the front seat. I'll explain that in a second. Wide receivers, you can put the money bag right next to you. We don't think less of Randy Moss for no Super Bowls or Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. Now, if I was Debo Samuel, I'd want to ensure if I'm traded, I go to a place with a great quarterback to remain relevant. Randy Moss going to New England remained relevant. He was irrelevant before he went there with the Raiders.

And as he left New England, he became less relevant. For a receiver, relevance equals money. Production equals money. So get to a quarterback that can elevate both. Receivers should mostly take the bag first. But let's get back to quarterbacks, coaches or talk show hosts. Quarterbacks and coaches' legacies are framed around championships. Dan Marino is more talented than Tom Brady or Joe Montana, but we don't talk about him.

No Super Bowls. Receivers, we still put Randy Moss top of the class, despite no rings. Talk show host similar to a quarterback. The platform you are on will overwhelmingly dictate your legacy. Don't get me wrong. Stewart. But when he left cable and went to streaming, he just had a show on a streaming platform, and it absolutely bombed. There's a reason Bill Maher has been relevant for 25 years. He's remained on HBO. There's a reason David Letterman remained relevant for 30 years. NBC, CBS, major platforms.

How about Chris Wallace? For years, noteworthy at Fox. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't. He decided to pivot to CNN Plus. Anybody seen Chris Wallace lately? CNN Plus is folded. That's why I tell broadcasters, money has to be in the backseat. Chase platforms, stability, and executives and bosses in the front seat of the car. If I'm Debo Samuel, go after the bag, but cross your fingers, you land with a really high-end quarterback at your next stop. Speaking of broadcasting, Colin. My question, what do you think of

Netflix losing 200,000 subscribers in the first quarter of this year? Well, I have streaming fatigue. When the pandemic hit, I signed up for everything because I was stuck inside for almost 18 months. The problem with binge viewing, and that's what streaming becomes, is I can watch an entire series on a Tuesday. But then I'm done with that series and done with Hulu or Netflix or Paramount. I'm done with them for another month.

On broadcast TV or cable, I get on the treadmill every day to watch my favorite sport show or favorite game or favorite political show. So I'm a regular consumer of cable because it's got me every day. What happened with streaming services and Netflix is a product of this,

is when the pandemic mostly ends, and you look at your monthly bill with all these streaming services, it's much higher now than it was with cable. And you're still watching cable much more than you're watching streaming. So I pay now more for the 13 streaming services I have than I do for my $132 a month in cable. and I get a lot more hours on cable and a lot more sports. Listen, Wall Street always invested in these companies for the long term. Netflix was losing money every year, but they were growing their subscription base.

But they were spending billions a year, 8, 9, 10 billion a year in production costs. That's why a Netflix show, that's why an HBO show, the production levels are so much better than broadcast television. They're paying for better directors. They're paying for more cameras and better actors and better writers. Networks can't keep up. The problem, of course, is networks are leaner and more profitable. And these streaming services overpaying for everything were betting that as they grew this consumer base, eventually they would flourish with revenue. Here's a problem. The pandemic mostly ends. Subscribers have streaming fatigue.

Their bills have now ratcheted up. And as they leave, all these streaming services are left saying, Okay, we've got great quality, but we're still not making money, and now we're losing millions of subscribers. Wall Street has officially bailed. This is something privately. I had a conversation with a network president about two to three months ago. He said, I think, at least domestically, we have 100% or close to it, saturation with streaming subscribers, that the growth arc is now plateauing or slightly declining.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George but you got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A couple years ago, I was watching Colorado football.

They had made a change at head coach. And I didn't know who Mel Tucker. was. But I was sitting watching it with a buddy on a Saturday night, knocking down a beer or two. And I said, man, that dude's got a presence. Like, look at that guy. That guy was like you can play. Well, he did play at Wisconsin.

But I started noticing Colorado football that they were getting much more physical. And that's not really Colorado football's brand pre-Mel Tucker. So when he, after multiple pursuits by multiple schools, Michigan State was able to

pull him away. And I said, the air at the time I said, oh, yeah, this is going to work fast. This isn't going to take a long time. And then COVID hit. So Mel Tucker did what's virtually impossible. Two and five first year, 11 and two last year, really still dealing with a pandemic. So you coached under Sabin in 2015. And there are so many parts of being a coach. There is the development, the recruiting, the administrative, the operational, the practice coach, the in-game strategy. If I said to you, take something you took from Sabin that you literally believe he is the gold standard of blank.

What would it be? He is a gold standard for, that's a tough question because he's excellent across the board. That's the one thing that one of the things I love so much about him is that he's a to Z. but his attention to detail is extraordinary. I mean, it's extremely important

because, you know, there's a saying how you do some things is how you do everything. Everything that he does is detailed into the letter. He's crossing every T, he's dotting every eye. And that's his personal standpoint. and that's also the standard of his entire organization and everyone in it. It would be very easy in the SEC to have a random rogue booster pay a player. Yet at Alabama, they'd be on reproach.

We don't hear about that. And that's a rabid part of the country. You've been there where, you know, a car dealer, he just, he just wants to be part of the whole operation. And, you know, it just takes a $100 bill in a hand. Now, these days, you won't get in trouble for it currently. but what did he tell kids to listen these kids it's not like they have sometimes it's a Friday night and they want a piece of pizza they got a girlfriend they don't have the money how did he preach to kids about don't ruin this puppy don't bring the program down because

I know in college I could have used a Hyundai so many times yeah well I mean he preaches you know being responsible for your own self-determination you know, and doing things the right way and, you know, controlling what you can control and making good decisions, you know, and so, and it's all about the choices and decisions that you make, they create outcomes, and ultimately, you know, that determines whether you're going to be successful or not just not only on the field but off the field and not just here while you're in school, but beyond school and out in the real world. And so, you know, there's no short cuts to success.

There's no magic pill. And, you know, the good thing now, and it's been like this for a number of years, is that, as you know, when we're at school, we didn't, you know, if you're on full allow, you didn't have money. You didn't have pizza money. So there's cost of attendance now. And, you know, the Austin deal is $5980 or whatever. that's here or on the horizon with some schools in the very near future.

And so, you know, there's a, you know, room board, tuition fees, book, cost of attendance, you know, sometimes, you know, maybe eligible for a Pell Grant or things like that, and then the loss to money and then now with the name, you know, name, image, and likeness, and things like that. you know, kids do, you know, do have their opportunity to have some, some extra money in their pocket, which I think, you know, ultimately, in theory, it should, you know, really take the focus away somewhat from that part of it and where they can just keep the ninth thing to nine things, focus on school and getting a, and being the best football player you can be. Do you worry, Mel, because of the transfer portal, you've got to re-recruit some of your own kids.

I've heard this from a couple college basketball coaches that they just, they don't want to be salesman 24-7. They like coaching. They like developing. Are you worried with all these current changes that you'll literally just be recruiting 80% of your life? Now, you know it's part of it, but are you worried about the balance between, hey, man, I got into this thing to coach, not to sell all day? Well, coaching is a lifestyle. There's no doubt about it. It's not a job.

It's interwoven and everything that you do, family and otherwise. And Jim Trussell taught me a long time ago. I was at Ohio State within his first four years. And he told me you have to recruit your own players every day. That was then. That was like 2001. You're always selling your program. You're always looking to get more and more buy-in.

Every opportunity you have to interact with your player, with one of the players is an opportunity to sell your program, sell division, you know, sell the culture, cement the culture, hamletor culture, and influence the players in a positive way and get them to buy-in to something that's bigger than themselves and the buy-in to the team, knowing that if they help the team get what they want, then ultimately they'll get what they want individually. And so, you know, I've always been about recruiting players that are currently on the team.

I just think you have to do that. And so now there's there's no difference. Just, you know, if you have, if you want a specific answer, you have to ask a specific question. Like right now, I'm towards the end of these end of spring meetings with the players. we just finished spring ball this past Saturday. And so I've got guys in here from every 15 minutes from 8 to 5. And you ask them, are you happy here? You know, just straight up.

Are you happy here? And how are things going? Is this a place where you see where you're going to be able to be successful on the field and off the field? Are there any issues? Anything I need to know about? Anything I can do to help? And if there are issues, you know, let's talk about them. And that's legitimate, those legitimate questions asked.

I mean, and, because I mean, ultimately, we're responsible for these young men and their well-being. And we promised them that we're going to help them be successful on and off the field. And if they're not happy, you know, here, then, you know, is something that we can fix? Is there something, if there's some adjustments to be to be made? and know what is the cause and we got guys you know they're 18 17 years old and 22 years old here and so they're all at different stages of development i talked to a young man uh earlier today and i said hey there was this you know after the season there was all these rumors about you going to the portal and i talked to you about it and and and and and then i said you know what let's revisit that like what

the heck was going on you know you were freshmen you had a good year and and and i know you're you were injured, but, you know, ultimately he was a little homesick, you know. He was a little homesick, and he got injured, and he was, he thought it was a little detached from the team a little bit, and, you know, but he worked through it, and he's got his teammates, you know, helping through it and the coaches, and he worked with, and now he's in good, now he's in good shape, you know, he's fine, but, you know, if, I think, there'll be quite a few of us that have said when we're in college that we have some, may have some doubts about, you know, if we should be there or not, or maybe some, maybe thought about maybe going

home or going somewhere else. It's just, it's easily, it's readily available to them now, where back in the day, that wasn't really an option. This whole thing about you coached in the South, you're now a head coach in the Midwest, you played with Wisconsin, and you also coached in the Pakistan. 12. And I've said this before that I believe the SEC and the Big 10 are the two biggest conferences, largely because those areas of the country don't have as much pro sports. The Northeast, a zillion pro teams. West Coast, you know, L.A's got eight pro teams. And when people criticize the Pac-12, I'm like, there's a lot to do out here. We got a coach, we got beaches,

we got mountains, we got the NFL, we got the NBA. And I do think the one of the things the Big 10 really is really important. Is it big 10 football to me feels like as big as anything in the Midwest outside of maybe Packer football or something? Like it's as big as anything. You coached out west, you coached in the South and you coached now in the Midwest. Did you feel it out west that it just wasn't quite as intense? It was, I don't, I'm not sure.

I think it's, I think it's kind of maybe case by case. maybe it depends on the university and the history and the tradition of the school. But it wasn't a game that I coached in there that I didn't feel a sense of urgency. And I didn't feel like it wasn't important to everyone that was involved in the game on both sides and all of the alumni and all of the administration. them. Every game was, you know, it felt it was real and it was important. You know, but it has a different feel. Just like the SEC feels a little different than the Big Ten. You know, people always ask me, so, which one's better?

Because I've coached LSU, Alabama, and Georgia, you know, which one's better? Is it, is it the SEC? Is that better? Is it the Big Ten? you know, and they're different. They just have, I don't think one's better or worse, it just has a different feel. But, you know, I would agree with, you know, I'm from Cleveland. And, you know, we, you know, we're diehard, you know, Browns, you know, Indians, calves, you know, and, you know, municipal stadium back in the day, you know, never leave early, no matter, no matter what, how cold it is. you know, before there was a dog pound, you know, it was, I mean, it was rugged down there. You know, you catch the bus down there.

It would be snowing and everything and, you know, just, you just grow up with in Ohio. I can't even, I can't remember making a conscious decision as a kid to play football. I don't think there was ever a decision like, hey, dad, I want to play football. Like, that was just what you're going to do, period. I mean, it's not even a, it was not even a thought that you're not going to play football. If you're a boy back in the day, you know, and you grow up in Ohio and Cleveland, you're going to play, you're going to play football. You're going to play football, basketball, and baseball, period. Maybe run track.

That's what it is. And so that's the culture here. And like here at Michigan State, like football is important. I mean, like, it's important to everyone. It's important to a lot of people. Like, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's what people look forward to year round. I mean, even like, as soon as the, as soon as the peace bowl is over, you know, can't wait till next season, coach.

Can't wait until next season. I mean, can't wait for recruiting. How are we doing their recruiting? You know, this is going to be great for recruiting. I mean, it just, it just never stops, man. It's like it's a topic of discussion. And that's what I'm used to. That's what I grew up with.

And I love it. I mean, I love it. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. When was the day you decided, I'm going to be a football coach, not just a player? Ooh, it was sometime in like 97. I started my first coaching position was. here at Michigan State as a graduate assistant with Nick Saban in 1997. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was my first job, 97 and 98. It was, it was myself, Brian Polion,

Chuck Bulla, Ted Alexson, who works for a catapult. And then the following year, my second year, Brian Davel came in. And yeah, and then this our undergrad student helper, like coach, or whatever, was Adam Gase. He was an undergrad, yeah, he was an undergrad student here, helping us break down film and do stuff like that. And then when we went to LSU and I went to LSU and we brought him there as a GA, and then his career, you know, took off from there. And so, but in 97, I think that's when I decided,

because I volunteered a little bit of my high school after I got out of Wisconsin. I went and volunteered a little bit. I was working, LaBelle's volunteer. I really like coaching. And Coach Saban recruited me when I was in high school when he was a head coach at Toledo. And so I wanted to get into coaching. And so I called Coach Saban up and told him I wanted to get in. And he hired me as a GA.

My dad stayed in touch with him when he was with the Browns. My dad would write him letters to tell him how I was doing at Wisconsin. would always ride him back that type of guy he is. So he remembered me, obviously. My dad played a Tledo. He remembered me from recruiting. And so he hired me here in 97. So it was sometime, you know, maybe, you know, five, six months before I got here.

And it was that I decided I wanted to coach. So your first coach was Sabin. Did you think instantly, man, these coaches are crazy. Did you, I mean, what did you think? I mean, that's your first experience? Yeah, that was my, well, you know, so, okay, I played at West, I was in Barry I was in Arizona's first recruiting class in Wisconsin. Oh, wow.

Yeah, 1990. So, I mean, it was Bill Callahan. Bill Callahan was there. Brad Childers was there. Jay Norville was there. I mean, those guys. And so, I mean, those were some rugged guys. John Palermo, I mean, Jim Hoover, and those guys were some rugged, you hard-nosed dudes.

By the way, Mel. people don't realize, Wisconsin was terrible when you got there. Yeah, we were one in ten my freshman year. But it's weird because the guys on that team, like Troy Vincent was on that team, he was one of my best friends, Chris Ballard was on that team. Really? Yeah, Chris Ballard, Todd Orlando was on that team. Daryl Beville was on that team.

Joe Rudolph. All these guys are coaching in football, Dura Sharp, commission of slack. All those guys were on that team. When Barry was selling you on this is what we're going to be Did you ever because he turned it around year three or four They were really Were you shocked Wisconsin didn't win forever for 20 years?

No I wasn't shocked because Because I knew I knew a guy I met a guy through the play for the Browns I forget his last name, but he played in Wisconsin. And I was introduced to him, and they had it going one day. McLean was there. He played for Dave McLean.

They had it going there. And so they told me all about it. They had guys like Nate Odoms and guys like that there. So I knew that there was a history there. And when I went on my visit there, Donna Shalala was the, was the chancellor at the time and she's from cleveland so so she kind of we kind of bonded and it took me to a hockey game now i've never been to a live hockey game because at that time hockey was they were a big man on campus in madison at the time they ran i mean it was all hockey

at that time because football was so down and uh i go in there and the people are going crazy and they got the beer gardens going sieb Sim, sieb, sieb, I mean, the place is going nuts. And I'm saying, I'm saying, if they're doing this for hockey, football gets going here, the thing's going to be rocking. I mean, this was before a jump around. This was before to jump around. This was, this was like, there was, we didn't have mirrors in the wait room.

There was nothing. But, you know, Barry had just, Alvey had just come from Notre Dame. Yeah. You know, and then he, you know, he had, he was Nebraska guy. you know, he was a championship coach. I mean, there was no doubt about it. I mean, you talk to Barry Alvarez. I mean, you know right away, and this guy is like, he's different.

I mean, he's different than, than the coaches. And so, but the key to it was that, that, the key to it was that he, they were great recruiters, and they always recruited better players than us every year. Really? The guy, the class that came in after us, they were better than us. The class that came in, they were always better, you know. And I see that now as a coach. I see that now as a coach when you go in and you get the job and depending on when you get it.

And then you got kids already committed. You can't just, you got to keep those guys committed and then try to get a couple more before the signing date. Then you go to the next class, you know. And I was recruited late by Barry. He got the job. I was kind of, I was committed to Air Force Academy. I mean, I was committed late and, you know, my route. You know, it was my roommate was, you know, I think he, I think my roommate, one of my roommates

kind of walked on and then earned it. They put him on Scottson during camp and he ended up being a star nose guard. But, but the years after that, like Terrell Fletcher, second round pick, you know, running back. We helped recruit Terrell. You know, those guys came in, came in after us, man, Lee De Ramis and all those guys. And they were better than us, man. And he recruited over top of us and they ended up, you know, having a. having a good football team, man,

to recruit him. You had Nick Saban and Barry Alvarez as mentors. Those are both top 10. I've said this before. What Barry Alvarez has done in a state with virtually no high school football players, maybe eight recruitable players a year. I mean, only Oregon does that.

Oregon and Wisconsin are it. That's it. Like, you don't have players in state. Now, Oregon's done it largely due to Phil Knight's commitment to the university. Wisconsin's done. because of Barry Alvarez, either coaching or hiring good coaches. I mean, to me, Barry has sort of a Bill Snyder, remember Bill Snyder, Kansas State where

that thing wasn't necessarily built to be dominant in football. And like, to be, Barry is almost power of personality. Like, he's just so, he's such a big presence, right? I know. I know. Yeah, he's, we were scared of Barry. Like, we thought he was in a mob. Like, you know, he was just, Alvey was just, he was just so.

cool man like he and uh i remember he pulled up one time because you know he he had a shirt you know he had a umbundle but he had a gold chain on you know underneath and everything he i remember one time he pulled up he had a he had a white Cadillac with a red rag top and the gold rims on there man like he was just a cool guy man and uh but he would he had he had presence he was tough i mean he was hard nose i mean damn mccarnie was on that staff i mean those guys were and those guys were just they were just just rugged guys and practice were hard, workouts were hard. I mean, everything was, but, you know, he, you know, he had a formula. It was like, like, you know, you know how to win in Nebraska. You know, you know how to win in Notre Dame. You know, they had, you know, guys from Iowa,

that step, you know, you know how to win at Iowa. This is how we're going to win at Wisconsin. You know, and Pat Richter was the AD, you know, he was a Wisconsin guy, the Rose Bowl guy, you know, back in the day. So they had the alignment, you know, Donna Shalela, Pat Richter, Barry Arrez, you know, got the donors lined up. And this is the formula. It's how we win here. This is our formula. You know, this is what we're going to do.

We're going to get big linemen. We're going to run the football. You know, Bill Callahan, get the zone scheme going. We're going to make sure we've got a couple backs. We're going to hammer it. And we're going to play solid defense. And we're going to get after it. That's how we do here.

And it's the same formula. It just, it just, it just, it just, doesn't it's the same thing and if you you know you try to that's how you do it there that's what works make sure to check out the draymond green show i brought draymond green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports unique perspective understands behind the rope also chops up with guests like gary peyton zach levine tracy mcgrady make sure download the draymond green show wherever you get your podcast only on the volume podcast network.

You know, think about this. You've been at schools not known as NFL factories, Wisconsin and Colorado. And then you've been at Alabama, Georgia, you know, these legendary LSU, these legendary factories in all year years of recruiting. Every single day of recruiting. Give me the best high school football player you have ever seen. Whether you got them or not, you literally left the game and went, He is an absolute NFL top 10 pick. Oh, man, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a good one.

That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a good one because, uh, well, um, I'll throw one. Did you see Julio Jones in high school? No, I, I didn't, I did not see, I didn't see who, Julio Jones in high school. I did see film with LeBron James when, before he stopped playing, uh, football. Oh, tell me that. What was that like? We were sitting in a recruiting meeting at Ohio State, and we put the film on.

And let me say, hey, put this kid in. They put the film on, put the tape in there. And we said, oh, my God, that guy is amazing. He said, don't worry about him. Don't worry about him. He'll be the first-row out pick basketball. NBA guy. He's not going to be playing football.

Really? It was LeBron. But I tell you what, I saw, I know, I know Ted again. junior since I was like since he was like eight years old. Speed receiver. Yeah, and

he was like the number one corner in the country coming out because he was like a kind of a wildcat type quarterback. Before he was Wildcat at a Cleveland Glenville. He played for his dad. And when I saw him play, he was at that time the fastest

football player that I've seen on the field. Now he he got drafted. I think he was a top 10 pick. And he ended up playing like 11, 12, 13 years in the league. I mean, he just retired, I think, a year ago, you know. Yeah. But in terms of just looking out there and seeing a player, he said, man, that's,

that guy's incredible. But I just so happened at high school to play against Robert Smith a couple times. Oh, the Buckeye back? Yeah, he went to Euclitt high school. We put playing in the Euclid. And in terms of just being on the field, I mean, seeing that, that dude was one of the, he's one of the best football players I've ever seen. I've actually played against some really good players.

And I've seen some really, some really good high school players. I mean, because we had a lot of first-round picks at Ohio State when I was there. Yeah. And, I mean, I tell you what, And all those guys, when you see them in the, you see those guys in high school, all those first round guys, you know, you know right away. You do. You know right away to the first round. I remember being in Jacksonville.

And I remember being in Jacksonville and Jack Dorillo coming in to the office one day and saying, man, there's this kid at Yuli. This is his kid because his son, Luke was playing football and Jack was going to the games. And he come back and said, this is this huge. huge kid down to Yule or whatever. You end up being Derek Henry, man. It was Derek. Because when we were on the table, I'm like, man, look at that kid's huge. Look at that guy.

He's like somebody's dad out there. Years and years later, I look back, I look back and say, man, that was Derek Henry because he was on the team, you know, he won the Hizman in 15 when I went to Alabama. I'm seeing him and I'm like putting two and two. I said, you're, that's, you're the same. That's the same kid I was watching. Like, you back in high school playing against Luke Del Rio's team. That is funny.

So Harbaugh and you is interesting. Big presence, played the game. Can you be friends with the coach at Michigan? You can't be too close of friends, right? You can't golf with the coach at Michigan. I think it's tough. I think it's tough. Yeah.

I'm not saying it's not possible. Because, you know, I just think it depends on your kind of your background because, you know, they're, you know, I was told that Woody Hayes and Bo Schenbeck were with your fans. They were? That's what I was told. I think they might have had history together and Miami will hire all creditory coaches and things like that. But, you know, it's, sometimes you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, you know, with coaches in terms of their relationships. But with this the rivalry, the way it is, and us not really, us really not having, like coming from the same tree,

or we've been on a staff together, you know, things like that. Not, you know, I think it's kind of hard because, you know, there's no reason to be friends. Right. There's no reason to do that. There's no, what redeeming the value would there be to sort of afford some type of friendship, you know, right here in the state, you know. So it's kind of just not there. It's not, you know, there's some guys like, you know, like Lane Kiff and I work with and Mario Cressball, I work with him.

And, you know, Dan Lannning, I work with Dan and Billy Maycare. I work with Billy, you know, Beams, Beamer, you know, work with Beams. So, you know, Sam Pittman, great friends with Sam. He's doing a great job of Arkansas. So, you know, obviously, like, if we were, you know, in the same conference or whatever, we would be some type of friendship there, you know, because, you know, we know each other. We work together. Right.

Mel, it's been a pleasure. Good luck to you. Kenneth Walker, by the way, took me about three carries to tell Kenneth Walker who's going to play in the league. when you spotted him, did you know instantly he was going to be that profoundly productive at Michigan State? Well, when you see it, when you saw his film, the weight, he's like, man, this guy can play. This guy's a back. Like, you can see it. But then when he got here, when he got here, the strength coaches were saying, hey, man, this guy's coming in the weight room.

And he's like, he's that guy, like, in the weight room. Like, he's coming in, like, working. He's strong. He's explosive. He's, like, off the charts, like, in our weight room. Like he is he's like top of the elite in our weight room. So then we go on the film. We start doing drills in the conditioning program.

And you see us, you see it. Now you see him up in person. And you see him in person, you like, okay, it's, he is what we thought we were. Then you start putting, then you put the ball in his hand and no one can tackle the guy. He said, okay, we got one. Like he's, he's that guy. You got to remember, like that whole class of guys we brought in with him, the high school guys and the in the transfers, all those guys. You know, we recruit those guys off like this off of Zoom.

We didn't, we couldn't see those guys until they got here. The first time that we like saw those guys is we're like we're checking them in the house and shaking her hands saying, hey, nice to meet you. Finally in person. A whole class of guy. We brought like 30-something guys in with those. on Zoom calls on FaceTime. He's a home run. He's a home run. Yeah, tell me about it.

After the first game, the North Western game, the locker room, I think we gave him the game ball. And he tells me, say, hey, coach, hey, thanks for taking a chance on me. I'm like, thanks for taking a chance on us, man, you're the best back in the country. I'm saying, this kind of the best running back in the country, like, period, point blank. You know, it was like, it was no, it's like a no brainer. It's like automatic. I mean, like, we did people.

People didn't know because it was everything was closed like our practice and all that. The media wasn't at practice and things like that, you know, because of COVID and some of those things. It was just kind of, we would just come out of COVID. It was like, no one really knew except us. Like we knew. And so if people were asking like, like how's the running back position, how they said, well, yeah, we got some, you know, the guys looking pretty good. We're going to be. And we go to Northwestern game in the first place, like 75 yards out of the grill.

And everybody's a style. I'm like, he would say that every day, man, like every single day. Can't talk with a guy. I know. He led the country in yards after contact. Yeah. Hips.

Everything. You can see. That's a guy. You can see the weight room on the field. That's weight room. You know, all the NFL guys are calling me and asking me, you know, as it's getting out to nitty-gritty, is there anything? We don't know about this guy like there's got to be something wrong with this guy like it. What is it? Is he have some baggage? How is he with his teammates? How is he with the academic? He's clean. I mean, he's that guy. It's him. It's right there. There's no there's nothing else. It's all right there. I mean, it's rare that you get a guy like that. He's just a clean guy on the field, off the field. He's humble. And he's, he, he's, he, he,

And he's a fierce competitor. And he's a baller. He's a straight baller. Mel, it's been absolutely great, man. It's been great for me. Thanks, thanks for having me.

You're one of my favorites, man. I mean, like you're, I'm pinching myself right now. Oh, no. No, man, we're the first,

in fact, we had a list of college coaches and I said, get me Mel Tucker. We need to promote this guy. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

All right, Mel. Good luck to you. Yeah, thank you so much. Go green. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

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Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me,

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