The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Mike Silver on Saleh’s Colin Pushback, Brady Report Controversy, Trey Lance/Zach Wilson Futures

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

First, (3:00) Colin explains why the sale of the Suns shows the decline of the Lakers’ brand, why Bill Belichick rebuilding the Patriots into a contender is no sure thing, and why coaches pearl clutching over the idea of superstar CFB QB's making millions is ridiculous. Then, longtime NFL writer - and host of the Open Mike podcast - Mike Silver joins Colin to discuss Robert Saleh’s pushback against Colin’s criticism (13:00), how much more time Trey Lance gets to prove himself with the Niners (16:00), Silver’s response to Tom Brady refuting his report that Brady changed some Bucs game planning independent of the coaching staff (22:00), if the Niners overestimated Lance’s athleticism (28:00), if the Jets are ready to move on from Zach Wilson this offseason (35:00), if the Raiders will reboot by trading Derek Carr (44:00), and if the Jets rebuild is further ahead of the Giants (52:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action, and visit Cuts for the latest Fall fits! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi, everybody. Welcome in the OAS, interesting, contentious, antagonistic Mike Silver on the Niners is joining us in 10 minutes. So generally speaking, California teams are wealthy in the context of comparing them to other sports franchises. Stan Cronky owns the Rams. He's the first or second richest NFL only. the Dodgers have the biggest payroll in baseball. Could be 50 million annually more than any other team. But there are exceptions. Robert Sarver was forced to sell the Phoenix Suns.

Do you know who now is the poorest NBA owner? Take a second. Jeannie Bus. Lakers. The poorest NBA owner. Now, this has been one of my concerns all along. It's gone from a global brand to a national brand to now the Lakers are just an L.A. brand. The truth is, they're not even the most popular NBA team in terms of NBA ratings.

In California, the Warriors are. The Lakers organization is friends and family. It is an incredibly insular brand now instead of, creative and innovative and progressive. It's not the most popular basketball brand in the state of California. The Warriors are. In fact, I would argue it's not the most popular sports brand in Los Angeles. The Dodgers are.

The Dodgers draw 10,000 more fans per game than the second best attendance team in Major League baseball, which I think is the Yankees. So when Stan Cronky or wealthier owners, the Dodgers, can go past a tax threshold because they just want to win to huge advantage. The Lakers, they just don't have the net worth as an ownership group. And this is something I've harped on for a long time. LeBron has an international brand. His brand right now is better perceived.

than the Lakers brand. Now, he left the Cavaliers. They have no brand outside of Ohio. But isn't that interesting that in Los Angeles, all things considered, the Dodger owners among the richest, the Rams owners among the richest,

Steve Balmer-Clipper's owner, among the richest. He may be the richest. Jeannie Bus, smallest net worth among all NBA owners. This feels like a corner store and it was the world. biggest basketball brand 15, 20 years ago.

The Celtics and the Lakers were two big brands. The Celtics have kept up their end of the deal. Still wildly popular. Still move a television rating. Lots of young ascending players. Go look at the Lakers last 10 years. Take out the bubble year, which was a complete outlier for sports. Take out the bubble year.

Last 10 years, what are the Lakers? A bottom five win percentage NBA friends. franchise. There are people in Los Angeles that think I'm picking on them. I'm not. But they just literally don't know what they were doing. I was having a conversation with an NBA scout. And he was talking about to me the Lakers roster. And he's like, Colin, there are people on that roster that we, the team he worked for, used to work for. He said, we wouldn't even give a tryout to. Would not give a tryout to. So Sean McVeigh, after another loss on Monday Night Football, was quoted saying this year has really been, quote, humbling.

Listen, this isn't college football. The better you are, the worse your draft pick. The better you are, you win a Super Bowl, everybody wants to raise. Vaughn Miller wants more money. OBJ wants more money. Players leave. Here's all you have to know. Patrick Mahomes has never repeated as a Super Bowl champion.

It's okay. It's okay. The one thing the Rams have, Sean McVey is a great recruiter and Stan Cronkey is a very wealthy owner. And Los Angeles is very attractive to free agents. That's why Lincoln Riley can pitch and turn around USC so quickly. It's a great place. If you've got the guy willing to give you the sales pitch, Lincoln, Riley, Sean McVeigh, you're going to be fine. Now, Chip Kelly, who's a really smart coach, isn't much of a very smart coach.

recruiter isn't a sales pitch guy. Even he landed the nation's second best high school quarterback this week. So California, a wealthy owner, and somebody that can pitch the franchise, you're going to be fine. I mean, that's what I wonder about New England. When New England comes out and says their quarterback, Mack Jones can't throw a Hail Mary, doesn't have the arm to do it. When they throw 40% of their passes, no more than five yards down the field, the mess. The mess. message you're sending to the National Football League, the top receivers, the top tight ends, we don't respect or trust our quarterback. And Belichick's not exactly Zieg Ziegler as a salesman.

My concern for the Patriots is that whereas the Rams and New England are struggling, the Rams have a quarterback in Matt Stafford that has proven he can win not only playoff games but road playoff games. and a coach that's willing to pitch all the high qualities of Los Angeles, of California, of the ownership, of SOFI of the roster. Belichick views that as beneath him. Players don't want to play in cold weather anyway. They'll go to New England or Buffalo if they can get paid more. But when I look at the Patriots mess, the messaging to the rest of the league and free agents,

and this is why it's important. Free agents matter to New England because they can't draft and developed skill players. They can't do it 10 years. Gronks the last offensive pro bowler, they drafted and developed. So they've got to go to free agency. What's the sales pitch? We don't love our quarterback.

You'll have to take a pay cut because we won't go top of the market. It's culture and defense over offense. I never worry about USC or an Alabama when you hire a Sabin or a Brian Kelly at LSU or a Lincoln, Riley. or a Jim Harbaugh, those guys can make a pitch. You tell me in New England right now, I'm a wide receiver, and they have a terrible wide receiver room. You tell me, what is the pitch?

Mack Jones? You don't trust him. Matt Patricia's your offensive coordinator? Bill Belichick culture over paycheck? Give me the coach that is willing to sell a program, college or pro. You can turn it around quickly. Belichick, that is not his. vibe and players want to see the love. They want to be recruited. Even guys that are already

50 million plus net worth in the NFL, NBA, they want to be loved. You've got to show them the love. So college football coach Pat Narduzzi at Pittsburgh said on radio yesterday that two schools in college football have offered North Carolina quarterback Drake May, $5 million to transfer. Drake May is very good. Number one pick, pick, next. Next year in the draft will be Caleb Williams, USC quarterback barring an injury. Following year, Drake May, quarterback Carolina will be the number one draft pick. Six, four and a half, big arm moves, tremendous talent. He would be pick number two if he came out next year behind Caleb Williams.

Tremendous talent. The coach at Pitt says, it's only going to get worse. It's a sad, sad deal. What's sad about it? College football programs make $95 million a year at the top end and $45 to $55 million. at the middle to bottom end. What's sad about it? A superstar quarterback, the best in the program's history,

is not worth $5 million a year in the NIL era. What's sad about it? Coaches are making $10 million and they skip town every 15 minutes. For all these coaches, what's sad about it? A superstar college quarterback, and Drake May is a can't miss prospect. It appears. You tell me, Caleb Williams for USC from 4 and 8 to 11 and 2,

is not worth several million dollars a year? Los Angeles. California's got the fourth biggest economy in the world. Caleb Williams isn't worth $4 or $5 million? These coaches get fired and schools have to pay them $20 and $30 million to buy out their contract and they're not even good at their job. Why can't a college superstar quarterback make $4 to $5 million a year? Why not?

Most players aren't making that. 99% of players aren't making a dollar. They're not making anything. Yes, but a superstar quarterback's going to get paid. Average college football coaches make $4 million a year. Guys that get run out after three years and get paid off $15 to $20 million to buy out their contract aren't even good at their work. And it's a sad, sad deal that a superstar quarterback gets paid. Some of these coaches are out of touch.

All right, Mike Silver, host of Open Mike on the Volume, wearing the Volume merch. Haven't talked to Mike at a long time. I'm all fired up for this. And we've got to start with this. One of your interviews, I love this so much, I can't, I've got to talk about this. So one of your great interviews was with Robert Sala, very, you know, just dynamic, good looking, big energy, really authentic at the mic. Not a BS or just going to come up. So I was pretty harsh on him.

And I've never known if he's going to make it or not because I do worry about defensive coach with young quarterbacks. Matt Eber, Flues, Justin Fields. I worry about it. I see Doug Peterson, who I was begging to get a job in Jacksonville with Trevor. And Trevor pops, like explodes. I do think we're living in a time where if you can choose, if you have to flip a coin, take the offensive guy with the young quarterback. Be that as it may.

I'm not a fan of Zach Wilson. I've said before, I don't know if someone. is going to make it. But I didn't like when he blamed the media for being instant coffee, you know, overreactionary and impatient was Zach Wilson. My favorite part, though, is he's your guy and he reached out to you. You don't have to read all of it. But this is funny.

This is why I love doing what I do. And he said to you what? Well, he wanted me to pass along some messages to you. One is that he loves, he a long time. listener, big fan, thinks you're very insightful. He said, judgmental, but insightful. But yeah, he just wants you to know, I think I'll paraphrase. He doesn't want you to believe that he's some giant meathead. He, and he has some offensive background. He played offense through college. He started his coaching career on the offensive side. I will say this, Colin. So he brought Mike LaFleur

with him from the 49ers. And basically, Mike LaFlor and Mike McDaniel were there. Kyle was going to let him take one. Now, normally, when you have the second overall pick in a draft and you pick a quarterback, you sink or swim with that guy, right? Like, if Zach Wilson turns out to pop and be good, then he and Joe Douglas will be great. And if he doesn't, it's a tough road, right? What I'm trying to wrap my head around is that it's very,

possible that Kyle Shanahan and John Lidge will have traded three ones, possibly talked himself, talked himself, Kyle out of the guy he wanted. That's a whole other story. And we've had that conversation. But whatever, traded three ones and arrived at Tray Lance. It might be a bust, and they might get away with it because Rod Purdy is here bawling. And if that happens, When has it ever happened that because that's the kind of thing that you trade three ones and miss at three, you get fired, it sets the franchise back years. They're just cruising. Well, they have one advantage. They have so many elite players.

I mean, they have two elite linebackers, two elite safeties. They could move one and regain some draft capital. Everybody's looking for pass rushers. And, you know what I mean? So, you know, they could go get a bunch of, you know, they could say, listen, Hufunga's hitting it out of the park. We could move Jimmy Ward. So they do have the ability outside of the right side of their offensive line, center

right, not a lot of weaknesses with this franchise. They're even at wide receiver. Jennings is a seventh round pick. Elijah Mitchell at six. They've hit so many home runs. So my takeaway on the Trey Lance thing is you have to give it another camp in preseason. But here's what worries me. It's by the time next season starts, he's played four games in three years.

Mike, it's unprecedented. That's not enough games. Yeah, and juxtaposed against the guy who they took him at 262, so let's not go pretending like they thought he was the second coming of Tom Brady. But Brock Purdy to them had played a lot of games, right? became a starter his freshman year at Iowa State. And that showed in trading camp as Tray Lance was struggling with accuracy and maybe struggling with the weight of the situation. And Jimmy Garoppolo was off on his side field, you know, as a spectacle, just throwing, waiting to get traded,

it seemed. Brock Purdy was out there going against what's clearly the best defensive football with some swag to him. And, you know, the confidence jumped out at people. And I, and I I think that's one reason, along with how he's looked, that it's worked so well since he's come in. But he was experienced in a way that Traylads wasn't. So, yeah, I wrote a column for the San Francisco Chronicle recently about what's going to happen next year. Brady had just come to town. And, you know, there are really four people I was talking about. And that was Jimmy Garoppolo, who almost certainly will get paid and go elsewhere and have

the power to pick his next spot because they can't tag him, nor would they, I don't think. Trey Lance, who will still be under the rookie deal and you have so much invested in. Brock Purdy, obviously, a cheap second year of a rookie deal. And we'll see if he levels off, but has looked apart early on. And then possibly Tom Brady, who will be a free agent if he wants to keep playing. If they are interested in him as a bridge quarterback and he's interested, you could really keep Purdy and Lance around while you have Brady. And so I could see that.

I could also see a situation where if it goes as well as it seems to be going with Purdy, where they say, look, we're keeping the two young guys. We're going to have a competition in camp, but I would be shocked if Brock Purdy doesn't win that competition. No, this is not a knock on tray. If you look at what Kyle wants, he wanted Mack Jones accurate. He liked Kirk Cousins accurate. That shot. liked Matt Schaub. He doesn't like, he doesn't like guys that run out of his play. In fact, my

knock on him, my only knock on Kyle Shanahan, and this may be unfair, he can become beholden to his play sheet, is that he, I mean, he is so focused, like there are times I'm like, could you let Garapolo let it rip a little? We all know professional athletes care about what they look like. And as you know, I care about what I look like. Right now, I've been wearing a lot of of cuts clothing. I love this thing right now. Every cut shirt is designed to provide a perfectly tailored look. If you want a long sleeve Henley, no problem, a short sleeve crew neck, they've got it.

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I want to talk about Brady because Brady refuted your report that he changed Buckingier game plans. I've known you for a long time. One of the reasons I hired you, you're unbelievably connected and you don't bullshit. So I do think Brady's fascinating because you won't take, because you're not paying pretty or really

Tray Lance anything, and Tom won't take a max deal with this roster. And not, you know, there's just not a lot of money. Yeah. So I do. If I said to you, let's, before we get to refuting your report on Brady, I think it feels as his parents' age, 40, 60, 50, 50, I mean, where do you land on Brady in the Niners? I believe from talking to people there that he wants to come back at this point, although you never know. And I believe he's open to other situations.

We'll see if Sean Payton gets a job. There was that talk last year. But, you know, I know there was a real pull for him three years ago. And Kyle ultimately decided, you know what? I'm going to ride with Jimmy. We just got to the Super Bowl. Kyle has essentially admitted publicly that, well, you know, no. Knowing what we know now about Brady, you know, we were crazy and so was anyone else who didn't try to get him.

But they hadn't loved his take from 2019. You know, and now, you know, he's had a couple bad games now, including against them. But, and we just have this, you know, we've suspended disbelief and we just believe he's always going to be at this level until he's 100, right? Which is not going to happen. But, you know, there is some allure there, I think, on both sides. You know, first of all, the one part of my report about Brady that we haven't talked about that I know he's not refuting because we have the conversation very vividly is that he didn't shower after that game. He's back in front of family and friends. It rains. He plays a big,

long game, and he gets out of his jersey slowly and puts on his Tom Brady boxers and gets dressed and seemingly boards a cross-country flight. That's crazy rock star. stuff. Like that to me, I told him, I go, I think that's probably your most legendary thing in the last five years, maybe other than the Rams come back, you know, winning a Super Bowl. That's, so I was kind of obsessed with that. As far as the other thing, so I kind of put in late in my column as a throwaway that Brady has a meeting with the skill players on Saturdays, just him and them, no coaches and he kind of goes over the coach's you know script and okay you know on this one maybe you do this and just tweaks it some and everybody the skill players though and the coaches kind of

find out on game day um i was just when i put it in i was trying to illustrate just how much he has on his plate and i brought you know i did not discuss that with him in the time we had together after the game partly honestly because I was so obsessed with the shower thing. And partly because I just hadn't regarded it as a super significant thing when I heard it. But I think what happened is when it came out, it got taken by everyone, as this, and said to everything. And I think Todd Bowles and Byron Lefich, who also refuted it, probably thought,

it looks like we don't really coach. And Tom is the guy running things. And Tom maybe took it as it looks. like I'm going rogue. I didn't get the feeling that anybody was upset about this, that this is, you know, and imagine if Peyton Manning were still playing at a high level and he were at the same age as Tom or that age. Would you let Peyton Manning be heavily involved in tweaking the plays and telling play? Of, you know, of course you would. So I didn't think, you know, the way it was portrayed to me is like, this is a good thing. We have Tom Brady. He's giving heavy input and we're all on the

same page. So look, I stand by what I reported, but I do regret that I didn't get a chance to explicitly ask Tom about it. That's on me. Yeah. And by the way, I think what you said there is your takeaway was look at how much Tom has on his plate. Right. It wasn't an indictment of the character or work ethic of the coaches. It was an illustration of this thing's been a little bit of a tire fire and Tom's having to take control of it. I've had. I've done that in my career where I say something or I tell a story and people take it to be harsh when I'm just trying to illuminate something. So, I mean, I get it.

But it happened to be more than once. You know, so many things are interesting with the 49ers. Somebody was saying them to me recently and I apologize for anybody listening to the podcast. We were talking about this. It may have been Jason McIntyre said this on the show. only thing worse than making a draft mistake is doubling down on it. And what's interesting about Trey Lance is because of his lack of playing and aesthetically, he has struggled with accuracy.

I know this because I was told the Niners literally went and called a quarterback coach last year in preseason. I won't give his name away and said, all hands on deck. We got an issue here. So it was a real issue. Then we watched him play twice and we're like, oh. It is an issue. It's a little Zach Wilson.

He's missing layups. He's missing the easy stuff. And I don't think the Niners ask a ton of their quarterbacks. They really don't. It's kind of a Chris Paul. Get the ball to the shooter. Get the ball in the lane, right? You're not asking them to be Steph Curry and hit 32 footers off balance.

Like sometimes Kansas City or the Chargers or the bills ask their quarterback to be Superman. Right. So the question with Trey is, Purdy's accurate. Trey's not. What if they go to camp? There are times where Trey was accurate. It's that he wasn't consistently accurate.

And when it looked bad, it looked really bad. So here's what I would say on Trey. One thing that seems to me to be the case, and this is from talking to some people on the inside too, that athleticism that they believed they saw, you know, when you're running, circles around Montana State, that's cool. But it's not necessarily the same thing as doing it in the SEC, right?

I think they thought he could get outside a little bit more than what they encounter. And he's not. And like Josh Allen can do it. Lamar, heaven knows, and Justin Fields could do it, right? There are some people who can do it. And Josh played at a lower level, Wyoming, which is still higher than North Dakota. state. So people were like, why was Kyle running him inside when he got hurt? Why didn't he keep running him inside? I think he was running him inside because he couldn't get outside. And so if that's

the case, that's not on trade. That's a failure in the scouting process. I've always clung to the fact that he's very, very intelligent. And what Kyle does ask, what Kyle does ask is understand this very high concept thing we're doing and know how to get it to the right person. So that is, that's always been exciting to me. But if you have accuracy that's not there and you don't have crazy athleticism, they were excited about the deep ball. That's kind of gone away. But, you know, not with Trey, but I mean, with Jimmy and Brock Purdy,

it's less of a part of their offense than they intended. And they drafted a guy, Danny Gray, who really hasn't been on. the field. But, you know, look, your depiction of what they're doing is very accurate. And Robert Saul and I actually have had the conversation about how many elite players they have at many positions. And that allows you a lot of leeway in that situation. What I haven't seen from Purdy yet, I did see him go on the road. I did see him deal with a loud crowd in Seattle. I did see him play hurt, you know, on a short week. So all that's really, you know, uplifting. What I, what I need to see decks from Purdy is you're down 14 points in the fourth quarter or you are, you need to

really do something special with the ball, you know, on a deep out or something. And that, the game hinges on that. Yes. And will he, you know, no quarterback's perfect. And, you know, look, Jimmy Garapolo was playing at a pretty high level. If Jimmy Garapolo got down by 14 points in the playoffs this year, had he not gotten hurt and then through a pick, you know what would have happened. The world would say he's not good enough. You can only go so far with him. He can't with a big one. It's very possible that that could happen to Brock Purdy. And given where we are in the season, it's possible that could happen in Philadelphia or in the Super Bowl or, you know, when Tom Brady beats Dallas in the playoffs and then comes back to Lee.

Levi's and rips out their souls and, you know, whatever it is. Well, the greatest come from behind quarterback ever statistically is Patrick Mahomes, and he's the best quarterback. The great quarterbacks can do two things. Score is irrelevant. Even with Aaron Rogers, top 10 quarterback ever, score is relevant. He's not as good from behind. Mahomes wins over 55% of the games he's trailed by 10 points.

That's historically makes no sense. Wow. The second thing great quarterbacks do is beat great teams. Two is a great example. Five and O against non-playoff teams, dragged against three playoff teams. Now he'll go home against Green Bay and he'll win a game because they'll probably won't make the playoffs. So I think with Pertie, your concerns are very real. He's playing with a lead and he's beating me.

So when you get to the playoffs, you're at Philadelphia. You trail. I remember saying this about Baker Mayfield. Baker Mayfield, when he had Nick Chubb and throwing on second and four, Baker Mayfield was really effective. Sure. Trailing, totally different quarterback. And like, it's interesting talking about the 49ers.

I'm really torn because I know how good they are, and I see how they're rolling and I've gotten healthier, and I feel that vibe, and I look at the NFC, and I'm thinking they should win that conference, in my opinion. Not a given, but that's there. But then if you really break it down, they've beaten two teams that currently have winning records. That's the Dolphins who are eight and six and the Chargers who are eight and six, beat the Seahawks who are seven and seven twice. They've lost to one team that currently has a winning record.

That's the Kansas City Chiefs. And it was not close. They got rolled. Now McCaffrey had just gotten there. They had some health issues. Charverius Ward wasn't right. but that was not a if that was a Super Bowl preview

we hope it wasn't because the Chiefs were way better that day so you know I want to make sure I don't get too ahead of myself on it but I saw your tweet the other night when I was working in Seattle with Brock Purdy and you know and I'm thinking yeah he might now I think the counterpoint to that would be even if Brock Perth

gets to the Super Bowl get ready for Hurdy versus Burrough Hurdy versus Ellen, Purdy versus Mahomes, Purdy versus Lamar. Like it's probably going to be one of those like, whoa. Doesn't mean he can't win with that team.

Okay, Mike Silver and I doing a lot of Niners talk. It's interesting. Let's go to Robert Saul and the Jets because of your relationship with him and the fact that he listens to my show, so I want to say something nice. So I've said this before. You don't have to win games.

For me to think you are a good coach, I have to see your footprint on the team. Very early was Sean McDermott. The defense got good by year two. Without the players he has now. Sean McVeigh, Year 1, Lincoln Riley, USC. Can't fix everything. Gough went from bust to he may make a Pro Bowl. where Mike McDaniel and Robert Sala have convinced me

the offense for the dolphins may be the most creative in the league and Sala's fingerprints are all over that defense. It is a, he has really done an amazing job. And some of that is, you know, Soss Gardner and Quentin Williams, I mean, some of these are just great players. But when I look at them, that's why I know Robert Sauter can coach. He, because I do think there are a lot of things that are out of your control. Look at McVeigh and the offensive line for the Rams this year.

There's nothing you can do. They've had 14 different offensive lines. They were uniquely healthy last year. They're uniquely unhealthy this year. But it does raise up something interesting with Sala. Is that whereas Daniel Jones, I don't see anything special. Zach Wilson's a little too cowboy for me, Johnny Mansell. But you can see the arm.

Like, you can see the feet. Yeah. The question becomes, because I think Sala is in no danger. I think everybody gets, he knows what he's doing. Shouldn't be, yeah. But we said this earlier. The only thing worse than making a mistake on a quarterback in the first round is doubling down on it. How long do you give Zach Wilson?

Because Mike White, my eyes tell me today, is a better NFL quarterback. And I think that's why they made the move, right? You don't want to make that move franchise building wise. You just don't want to make that move. Even if it's, we'll put the young guy out for a little bit. He can sit and watch and gather himself. That's not usually awesome. Like Patrick Mahomes didn't gather himself. Now, he was great from the start. But, you know, Tua had to sit and watch and gather himself. I don't think that's what fixed, too. I think it was Mike McDaniel. know it was Mike McDaniel coming in and giving them love and trading for Tyreek Hill and, you know, talking about the scheme that you, that you mentioned being so creative. But I just, you know, I do believe that they're at a point. And remember, they're not at full strength. They've had some pretty brutal injuries, you know, starting with Bechtin, who, you know, we don't know how big that was, but, you know, other injuries on the line, Elijah Vera Tucker, the running back, Breeze Hall, who would look so good.

So they've had some impact injuries. I think that team is good enough now that you can't afford to play a guy that you hope is going to become your franchise quarterback. And the other thing is the locker room, at some point the players know, and that's not okay. Like you think Dwayne Brown,

who's there at the end of his career or some of these guys want to hear that like, well, maybe in a couple of years, this will be great for the Jets. They're like, dude, I'm out there, you know, trying to win right now. Great point. Mike White's better right now.

And the other thing is I think, you know, it's New York. Everything's amplified. There were rumblings that in the locker room it wasn't going great with Zach Wilson. You saw some players act out after that game, that last one he started before now. And then Zach Wilson said something really stupid that was a layup. He missed a layup at the microphone, right? He's a very young guy. I shuddered to think how I would have been on the microphone.

microphone at that age. But, you know, a layup is, hey, Zach, do you think, do you feel like you let your teammates down in this game? And you go, yeah, of course, it starts with me. I'm the quarterback. I need to play better. We all need to play better. We're a team. But I, I'm the quarterback. I need to lead. I need to, you know, play better than I did today. That's a layup. And when your answer is like, not me, if you were already struggling in the locker room, that hurts you, Sala saw that, put it all together, and was like, okay, we can't, you know, no more playtime. We're trying to win a game now. And I don't think Robert Saul looks at Mike White. I haven't had this conversation with him, but I don't believe he looks at Mike White and

goes, hey, that's my, you know, that's my Joe Montana. I think he's just like, this guy's better now. And if we blew that pick, it's going to be hard to survive it, but we're going to have to figure that out after the season or maybe he'll mature and get better. And you're right. you do see, you know, we haven't seen it as much with Lance, but we've barely seen Lance. We've seen it with Trevor Lawrence now, and we kind of, you know, and he had a rough, very, very rough first year. Mac Jones, we thought we saw something, and then he got Patricia judged, which is a whole other, you know, situation. And, you know, Davis Mills, we've seen a little, and that's not going great. Justin Fields, I got to tell you, he may not be perfect,

and all that. I've seen something. I've seen something. What I worry about, Jalen Hertz hurt, Lamar hurt, Trey Lance got hurt running. Now,

Matt Stafford's also hurt. Josh Allen would be hurt, but he's 6-6-2-60. That helps. Yeah, so I do worry that these hyper-athletic quarterbacks who can all throw,

you know, many, Justin Fields doesn't have a good old line. Lamar doesn't have good receiving quarterbacks. A Kyler may not have a good coach, that when you're hyper athletic, by the way, Josh Allen doesn't have a consistent run game or offensive line, that when you're hyper athletic and things aren't going well, high school and college, your makeup is I'm out, I'm moving. So I don't think Justin Fields would run nearly as much if he had legitimate receivers in an old line. Right, and the threat of it would make it even easier for him to have open guys.

I think the other point is over time, like I'm not concerned about Josh Allen right now, getting hurt as much as I am. But, you know, Cam Newton had a short career. You know, Ben Rafflesberger had to change because it built up, you know, all those extending plays. He had to get rid of the ball, you know, much more quickly toward the end. But you know, you look at how Cam Newton's career went and you're like, he was, the MVP, he was at a high level. Nobody wanted to tackle him.

He's so big and athletic. But when it started to go, it went. And so I just, if I'm the bills, I'm like, okay, Josh, when we need you to do one of those things to win an important game or do something, I get it. But my number one priority with Josh Allen would be figure out a way to not rely on that. Because over time, you just don't want it. Yeah, big Ben and Cam Newton. You don't feel those. And, you know, it's almost like...

Steve Young had a short career, right? You know, and I covered that. And Steve Young's impulse was get out and go. Now, Mike Shanahan came in as the offensive coordinator and really crafted a guy who would sit back and read more. and he threw six touchdowns at the Super Bowl and, you know, whatever. But, you know, he had a short career too. So I think it doesn't be, by the way, the bills would take a short career of what they have now. He's incredible.

But you'd rather have it be longer. This week's gold medal performance goes to a team who will see a quick turnaround next year. Despite being eliminated from the playoffs, the Rams future is still pretty bright. They have a star quarterback. Matt Stafford announced he's coming back. Cooper Cups coming back. Sean McVeigh's a great salesman, and L.A. recruits itself for free agents. Ask Lincoln, Riley, and USC.

The Rams aren't a bad franchise or a bad team. They were just dealt a lot of bad luck with injuries. They'll be back soon. This week's gold medal performance is sponsored by legacy precious metals. We're living in tough economic times with soaring grocery prices, high inflation, unstable stock market. You really want to gamble with your investments? I trust legacy precious metals with gold and precious metal investments.

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I said this the other day. It doesn't matter. You're employed by multiple people. Metal Arc Media, me, Bally, San Francisco Chronicle. You have four employers. So you could have more. And one boss who's down the hall over there. She's getting ready for Christmas.

We all have that. loss. Yes. Yeah. So I've always said, your value is ultimately decided on an open market. The media critics can like you or not like you. You're on the open market. And I said this about the Raiders and Derek Carr. It may be time, I think you can make a valid argument that the Raiders can move off him because they've got some holes. And I think you can get a first and a fifth or a first and a fourth for him. Maybe it's a second and a fourth. I don't know. But I also, think Derek would have a very dynamic market. I think if you put him in New York with that defense and, and Brees Hall, hello. That's a playoff team. So it's interesting. You can be two things

at once. Have an excellent market and the Raiders need to rebuild. He's not a dead cap hit. And Will Levis has a big arm. Josh McDaniels, look what he did to Mack Jones year one. Look what's happened to him since he left. What do you make of Carr, the Raiders? Because I can see, Mike, them saying, we like him. But if we can get a second one and a second three, because I think they already have two, five, multiple sixes, what do you make of the Raiders situation? Yeah, that's a great point. And I'm going to see them in a couple weeks, and I'll have a stronger opinion. But, you know, I think here's why that makes sense. Number one, the owner was, the owner had the wandering eye for years. on Kari Wanner Russell Wilson.

You know, he was he was just kind of like, hey, can we get a superstar for the move to Vegas? I think they paid enough guys around him that you could benefit from a situation where your quarterback is on a rookie deal at first, right? Because you paid Waller, you paid Renfro, you paid Devante now. Devante came there because of Derek Carr.

So you've got to deal with the politics. of that. But you paid Crosby, as you should, you know, you paint Chandler Jones, maybe you wish you hadn't, although you do now, after that one play. But yeah, so I think that's it. And I do think Derek Carr would have a big market. And by the way, Garapolo is a bridge quarterback would be on the table for Josh, depending on how he feels about him. I think this is what I would say about Derek Carr. He's very intelligent. You know, you could definitely win with him. He's not going to elevate you the way Mahomes does. Who can? But the sneaky thing about Derek Carr that people don't really talk about is his clutch performance metrics are, and maybe I know this more because I covered

a lot of Raider games when he was in Oakland. He's got a lot of comfort behind victories. Clutch wins, fourth quarter. It's not an anomaly. His numbers are very, very close to the top since he's been in the league. And I have to go look that up again. There's different ways to measure it. But he's a guy who can take you back when you're down at the end and lead that game winning drive.

So yeah, I think he'd have a real market. You know, some new guys are going to come into the league and Jimmy's out there. But really, it's not like we have this. crazy abundance of, you know, front-line quarterbacks. And he would probably be the most attractive free agent on the market other than, you know, in recent years, other than Russell who was kind of an anomaly. That's right. And Brady, who was an anomaly, he'd probably be the guy that got the most interest.

Well, this year, Kirk Cousins has seven fourth quarter wins, like come from behind. why? Because when you get to year 8 and 9, Brady talked about this years ago, he's like, I've seen every defense. Derek Carr and Kirk Cousins have trailed in a lot of games late. Yeah. You know, situationally, my game. Cars numbers have

always, it's weird. Like, if you look back, even when they're not good, the teams he's on, his, a lot of his wins were come from behind in the fourth quarter. Kind of wish I had the numbers in front of me. But, yeah, no, you're right. And he's in a stage where he's seen it. And he's, you know,

nobody is going to ever say Derek Carr doesn't process it fast or Derek Carr doesn't have a grasp of the game. And also, you know, he, talk about franchise quarterbacks. Like, he's going to take it really seriously. He's not going to, he's not going to screw that. So I thought Joe Douglas, I think his last two drafts for the Jets have been really strong. You're really like Breece Hall star, Gardner star, a couple of these wide receivers, really special. Yeah, Elijah Vera Tucker, a really good pick. Yeah. Best Offensive linemen in U.S. He's had in eight years, ten years.

If they have another good draft with Derek Carr and that division, that to me is a team that goes toe to toe to with Buffalo. I really believe that because Joe Douglas is the secret sauce here. Those last two drafts, that draft last year for the Jets, that was one of the best. I think I said it at the time. I don't sure have ever seen a team, first four picks, all be starters and all potentially high-end starters. So the Giants are a rebuild. I mean, their O-line are receiving Corom S. Like the Jets have to clean up their own line and get the quarterback in the free agent market.

But the Jets have a lot of stars. They're not paying anything to yet, nothing. And they have like a three-year runway on them. Yeah, the Jets, I mean, that division is going to be tough because I think McDaniel is here to stay as a force. And I know the bills are set up. I don't think the Patriots are particularly set up to thrive, but that's another topic. Try not to kick them when they're down. And they should be down right now because, you know, when you pride yourself on your players always knowing what to do in situational football.

And in fairness to Bill, he earned that. They practice those things. And they go over arcane situations. So I know Belichick's head has to be exploding. But, man, that's probably. If they don't make the playoffs, that may well be the reason, right? That's right. And it was insane.

And two players did something insane. And honestly, Bill did something kind of weird by calling a draw play in the first place. And then saying, I didn't think my quarterback could throw it that far. Then take a knee, right? I mean, I just don't see, do you really think Romande Stevens is going to score on a draw from your own 30 or whatever? Or 40, no. So, okay, he's not going to score. you've got time for one play.

Are you, what else could happen? He could fumble and they could scoop and score. That's not good. He could get concussed. That's probably bad. So one of your other players could get hurt, not good. He could ridiculously lateral it to a guy. Well, that's kind of not good.

That guy could then run backwards like 12 yards and then throw across his body to the middle of the field behind him to Mac Jones. and then Chandler Jones could catch that ball in stride, and as I say in my ballet column that hasn't come out yet, but I'll give you a preview, run over him like a semi running over a pillow, and then proceed to the end zone and win the game. So that's on Bill too.

But yeah, the Jets are in a good spot. And the Giants, I don't know how. I know Brian Dayball should be at the very forefront of the coach of the year conversation. And I know Wake Martindale, the defensive coordinator should be, in my opinion, one of the very top guys in the head coaching cycle because he did this in Baltimore most years too. And he's had injuries. And you look at their stats, not just total defense, but all the quarterback hits and third down and all these different stats, they are higher than they should be based on the talent level. Oh, no.

I mean, the Giants literally can play one way. to win can never get in it can't forget a shootout if it's in the 20s they're in danger the fact that dable is and i know that robert solace said i'm judgmental but i don't think brian jr i don't think daniel jones is it i didn't like him in college i don't like him in the pros he's a backup he's a really good backup yeah i mean he's like a top three backup but that's what he feels i can't build around daniel jones i I just can't. I am equally judgmental when it comes to Daniel Jones, and I'm trying to be less judgmental in my, you know, in my older age.

But I would agree with you. And I, all I can tell you is not just Daniel Jones. I looked at that team and thought, that team's got a hard time winning, you know, three, four games, maybe day ball, give them a little bump. And let's say when they were four and one, I texted a lot of people in that building. And I was like, I don't understand. And they were like, we don't really understand. understand either, man. Like, this is beyond what we thought could happen. So give those players and

those coaches a lot of credit. And Joe Shane, I mean, whatever they did, they're eight, five, and one, and they're probably going to make the playoffs. And if they don't, oh, no, I mean, still a success story. It's a weapons league. It's a quarterback weapons league. They have a backup and no weapons and they may make the playoffs it's insane they have sequoan i mean bless them you know revive sequo and yeah and like i again martin dale like you look at that defense okay well timidot we saw what he can do in this last game obviously letter williams is is a good player um and you know they got some guys like i kind of know who they are they're pretty good but like ask a fan like if you and i were sitting having a burger at your awesome place in her

Mosa, and someone walked in, and they were like, oh, hey, Colin, I love your show, blah, blah, blah. And we got into a conversation with him or her, and we said, hey, by the way, you follow football? Yeah, I follow football. You play fantasy? Yeah. What do you think of the New York Giants? I don't know. Could you name four players on that defense?

And if you're correct, we will give you free beer at this beer hall for life. I think they would say I cannot. That's right. No, it's, yeah, coach of the year, Dayball's top three. And I think Shanahan has to be in that conversation with three quarterbacks. Absolutely.

Shanahan, because he's winning more. Also, the guy at Minnesota. Yes. Situationally. Can't win eight one possession games or 10 one possession games. I defended Kevin O'Connell when people were freaking out before the greatest comeback in NFL history

last week, I said they have a negative point differential. They're the worst 10 and 3 team ever. I'm like, that's amazing that they're 10 and 3. That's a testament to Kevin O'Connell and those players. If they're, you know, you should be celebrating them. And then

yeah, of course, Nick Siriani is going to get attention when you're 13 or 1, you know, it's hard not to. But we should ask Michael Parsons about that because I know he wasn't a fan of Jaylen Hertz as MVP, he might not love the Nick Siriani coach of the year campaign either. Mike Silver, this has been absolutely great.

Can I read you one? I just got a text and I checked it while we were on the air because I saw the initials about 20 minutes ago. The text is from Robert Sala and it says, Cowherd, give a response to my message question mark. So he was following up. And I'm going to text him back now and I'm going to say, yes, he did. And it will be on this podcast.

And like the rest of America, I'm sure the head coach of the Jets will be tuning in and with great interest. No, I'm not. Here on the volume. I'm not. I've said 10 times on the air. I can see his impact all over that team. But when he, when he pushes back. on the, you know, listen, I don't mind being ripped.

I get ripped, but the critics don't like me, fan, whatever. I like, I'm, I get it. But I think it's unfair because Robert benched him. I didn't bend Zach Wilson, Robert did. And he pissed Robert off in a press conference, not me. You didn't draft him? You didn't bench him. You did not, yeah, you did not monitor his press conference.

But, and look, man, I'm, now I'm all about the quarterback revival story. You mentioned Daniel Jones, Gino Smith, Jimmy this year, who saw that coming, Zach Wilson, Tua. Like, it's there, man. Maybe there's a quarterback revival story for Zach Wilson, and this will just make it all of the more dramatic.

Great talking to you, buddy. Right on. Thank you. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green show. I brought Dremon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest. S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

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