The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Mike Vrabel on A.J. Brown Trade, Tannehill & Willis , Belichick Influence,

Episode Date: May 20, 2022

First, (3:00), Fake Questions, Real Answers, (3:00) including why more players aren’t speaking out in defense of Phil Mickelson, if Tom Brady is worth his massive broadcasting deal with Fox, if Nick Saban stepped over the in attacking Jimbo Fisher over NIL, if the USFL can survive, why today’s NBA is like the 70’s NBA, and how good USC can be with Jordan Addison. Then, Titans Head Coach Mike Vrabel and Colin discuss Bill Belichick’s influence on (20:00), when he gained Belichick’s trust (24:00), how being a former player is an advantage as a coach (25:00), if the NFL has gotten too pro-offense (27:00), why he wasn’t concerned about Ryan Tannehill’s comments about  mentoring Malik Willis (29:00), what he likes about Willis (30:00), what made Tedy Bruschi so special (34:00), when Derrick Henry became truly dominant (36:00), why he wasn’t interested in college head coaching jobs (38:00), why it was so hard to lose AJ Brown (41:00), and if he has a secret sauce to beating Tom Brady (47:00). Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herd  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.

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You can bet five or ten bucks in one 150 bucks or more. If you are new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app. Get started now. Sign up promo code Colin so they know we and I sent you. The Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandall Sportsbook. Hi, everybody, and welcome to our Friday podcast. It's time for fake questions, real answers. There's things I want to talk about, but don't want to wait for you to ask me.

Dear Colin, what do you make of Phil Mickelson not playing in the PGA Championship, even though he's a defending champ? Well, I think golf is better when Phil Mickelson plays. There are very few golfers in the world that have a brand. Tiger, Brooks Kepka, Phil Mickelson. What I do think is interesting, though, is if you're a public figure long enough in America, as a politician, a CEO, or an athlete, you will eventually step in it. I'm always interested once you do, what kind of support do you have. We always thought of Tiger Woods as sort of a solo act, but when he got into personal trouble,

His circle may be tight, but many people were there to support him. Tiger Woods made a lot of friends on the tour. He was fun, a guy's guy, and made everybody richer. When Phil Mickelson got into trouble with his comments about the PGA tour being a dictatorship, crickets. He withdrew from the Masters. He withdrew from this PGA championship. Where is allies?

Where is friends? where's his support system? It tells you a lot about a man, not when he steps in it. We all do as public figures. But do you have any support when you do? Phil doesn't. Dear Colin, you were vacationing in Italy.

Tom Brady, while you were there, signed a massive contract, $35 million a year at Fox. What do you make of it? Why, thank you. Italy was amazing. I was your typical Italian love-making machine. espresso, wine, pizza, my lucky wife.

What do I make of it? Listen, there's a lot of really good football analysts out there. Louis Riddick, he's been on our podcast, excellent. Chris Collinsworth, excellent. Tom Brady's different. Tom Brady is a brand. Fox is paying him a lot of money. I don't know the specific amount, but it's a lot.

It is, however, layered. He is not being paid just to be a football analyst. If you could pick one person in America to tie yourself to in regards to football, there's an argument to be made. It's Tom Brady with the NFL. He comes across by superstar standards as kind of wholesome, clean, family guy loves football, totally committed to things he loves. Listen, Brady will allow you to charge more for every commercial on a football broadcast. He will be used, I imagine, with advertisers, things we call in the advertising community the up-fronts. Tom Brady will drive revenue, just like he drove television ratings as a player.

I don't know how good he'll be. I was told this by somebody who would know, Brady is good at everything he wants to be good at, and it's really important for him to be a good broadcaster. But that's why you pay him a lot of money. He changes the temperature in every room he's in, and he's probably the best football ambassador in a country of 335 million people. Tom Brady, now at Fox. Dear Colin, what do you make in Nick Saban

and Jim Bo Fisher exchanging barbs on recruiting and the name, image, likeness situation. You know, they say this about Hollywood. There are certain positions in Hollywood where you need to get along with people. Like actors and actresses, if you have a long career, you'll be on lots of projects, working with lots of people. You're already viewed as important, highly compensated, and often a star. It's really important to get along with people. But when it comes to directors, you're dealing with the studio, budgets, and bottom lines.

Sometimes you need 20, 25% a-hole, like Quentin Tarantino or James Cameron, different sensibilities for people on the same movie set. That's the way I look at college football coaches. In the NFL, you're not recruiting players. In college, you are. You've got to be a salesman and get along with dad. and mom and the son. You've got to deal with boosters and administrators. I've said this before. Every great college football coach in my life has like 20 to 25 percent a whole. It doesn't mean they're corrupted people or horrible people, but Sabin and Jimbo Fisher have really healthy egos.

Got into a war of words publicly because that's what guys with egos do. They're both really exceptional, Sabin the best ever. But college football coaches are very, very, very very rare. In the NBA, it's a players league. In the NFL, it's a quarterback league. College football is a coach's sport, and it's the only sport that often makes money on an entire campus. You're the state's highest paid employer. Being a little authoritative, bulldozing certain administrators, donors, it's almost a commodity. Dear Colin, what do you make of the USFL ratings on NBC and Fox? They're getting like a million viewers a game. Yes, they are.

What's interesting about the USFL is players, young men, have virtually no power. And that's a good thing. Now, for all the wokesters on the internet, we want to enable and empower athletes at all costs. But when you're starting up a business, a professional league, and the WNBA did this about 20 years ago, you cannot give players power. What you need is capital, timing, luck, and the ability to pivot off stuff that works and stuff that doesn't work.

The USFL isn't going to make a ton of money. And for the USFL to survive, it needs two years of being able to pivot off stuff that immediately doesn't work. You know, they did a Harvard business study years ago. And when we think of Silicon Valley, we think of all the founders as young, brilliant people, 22, 23 years old. That's actually not true. The average age of founders in Silicon Valley isn't 25. Or 35. It's actually 45. Because if 25-year-olds are running your company, you're probably going to be in trouble. You need experience. You need people who have been there before. The USFL will work because the athletes in this situation have little to no power and no flexibility.

That's the only way a new sports league will work. For the record, the last sports league that was created that became something was the UFC. What do we often hear? Dana White has all the power. Dear Colin, people are saying these NBA playoffs are just like the 1970s NBA NBA. That's the weakest decade, at least the perception is, of the sport. Actually, it's funny, there are certain things that we say are bad or trouble that really aren't. I'll give you an example.

Air travel. All I ever see is media people complaining about it, people taking shots at it, ugly videos on the internet of people throwing tantrums on planes. Let's be honest, I just flew from 12 hours in the air. from Europe across the Atlantic, across America to LAX. I was served two meals. I saw a movie, an excellent documentary, had half a bottle of wine, some excellent chocolates. I got slippers and was able to sleep two hours as well.

I get treated better on an airline than I do at home. They were checking on me every 10 minutes. That's how I feel about the 1970s NBA. It got a bad reputation, but it gave us Dr. J and Walt Frazier and Jerry West playing alongside Wilk Chamberlain and Bill Walton and Misonics won a championship. It got such a bad reputation. It was a wonderful time. The problem with the league was the 70s, the revenue was terrible, and the commissioner was bad as well.

Once they got that right, the NBA was off and running. But the 1970s NBA gets a bad rap like our airlines. I grew up on it. I have wonderful memories. There were many memorable stars. We just didn't have any dynasties, and that's okay, too. Dear Colin, what do you make of Bolitnikov winner, Jordan Addison, Pittsburgh, Panthers Wide Receiver,

entering the transfer portal and landing at USC? Well, I'm glad you asked. What a fine university. You know, I always roll my eyes at fans who think, I think legendary college football and college basketball brands are done for good. We've seen Kentucky and Alabama. We've seen Notre Dame all struggle in the last 20 years. USC football too.

But big brands are really, really important, and they never die for good. And what they also do, and we saw this with Jim Harbaugh in Michigan, When the big brand in college basketball or football get the right star coach, they rebound within a season. Go look at Brady Hoax last year at Michigan and Jim Harbaugh's first year. And that was without the transfer portal and the name, image, and likeness power of USC. The Trojans are going to be really good, really quickly. There's three great teams in college football next year. Ohio State, Georgia, and Alabama.

After that, there's two or three other teams I really like, Clemson and Notre Dame. But after that, there's five or six or seven teams that can compete with virtually everybody, USC, Oregon, Utah, from the West are all in that group. The playoffs are here. You can make every game feel like Game 7 on Fandall Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA, Fandul's hooking you up free bets through the playoffs. Free bets. Doesn't matter if you're

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Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from Bats, basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Mike, what's interesting, I told the staff today, I said, why does it feel like Mike Vrable's been coaching for 20? years. Like, I can't remember the coach and with the Titans before you. And it's because, you know, the Ohio State. And then you were an assistant. And, you know, you're, you're one of these guys that is a very, um, young, older guy. You've been in the public consciousness forever. So you've only been there from 2018. If I said, you're 25 years, you know, National Football League and Ohio State 25 years. I think that's where I get. my mind goes.

If I said today, you coach against rookie head coach Mike Frable, where would today's coach work you on your first day coaching as a head coach in the league? Where have you really made a jump in your opinion? I think this, the comfort level of knowing that there's going to be so much uncertainty and you're not going to be able to control everything and you're going to have to just not worry about distractions and trying to avoid them. It's just how do we handle them?

It's just things are inevitable. I told, I scripted the rookie minicamp. I said, we're going to fumble three snaps, going to throw an interception. Lignment are going to run into each other because one's going to go to the right and the other one's going to go to the left. And you guys are going to run into each other. And all these things happened and they came back laughing after the first practice. I said, I feel like I kind of can script these practices. I know just to how they're going to go.

You know, Mike, it's, you know, some of Belichick's assistants haven't done well. You weren't a classic assistant. you went the college route and then came around. So when I've talked to some of the former Belichick assistants, Bill has such a presence and he's such an intellect that it's, you know, when you're in his presence, you feel like he's a little bit of a guru. I mean, you're trying to soak in all of it. And a lot of coaches have said you do a really bad impersonation of Belichick instead

of being yourself. And with you, you have such a strong presence. I don't think you fell into that. I think you're really, when I look at you, Mike Frable is Mike Frable. You're not, you're not going to be anybody else. And I, you know, your wife was a college athlete. You're a former pro football player for 14 years. Do you think because you had such a defined personality and presence, you have,

you soaked up some stuff from Belichick, but there's no imitating. I mean, absolutely, uh, soaked up a lot. But I think that my experience there was, was as a player with other great players. I mean, I've learned, I've really tried to take a lot from whether it be Teddy Bruske, William McGinnis, Rodney Harrison, experiences with Tom or any of the offensive players, the coaches, Romeo Cornell that I had in the NFL and then try to mold that, whether it be working for Bill O'Brien or even working for Urban and Ohio State, the conversations with Luke Thickle, Marcus Freeman.

I've tried to take all these different things and just say, be me, be myself. and react how I would react, but these are things that these guys are really good at. How can I use them to help me or help this team? You have to be really organized, right? Like every great coach I've known as organized. Were you an organized player? I don't. I mean, is what's ever behind me, if that's organized on the screen, back here,

I just make my notes back there because I'm not much of a computer. I kind of just stay organized up here. Do you, if I, if you, I'll give you a coach and you just tell me, a sentence, what you glean from that coach. If I say to you, Bill O'Brien, you were under, Bill O'Brien, what did you take from him? Authenticity. I remember him saying, the beauty of coaching is believe in something, have a philosophy, get the players to believe in it.

And there's going to be a million different ways, but you have to believe in it and you have to do it your way. Urban Meyer. Teaching. Urban was, it was, it was man. that you be a great teacher with these college players and also the connection. You know, I realize in college the connection that you have to have between a player, you get there and they're 17, 18 years old and, you know, they're spending a lot of time within. You're a father figure for most of those guys.

Belichick. Just being prepared, being prepared for different situations. Also being flexible and understanding that things are going to change. Things are going to constantly come up and you have to be willing to, change and adapt. See, now that surprises me. I look at Belichick and I think he's so prepared, he wouldn't have that dexterity or that ability to pivot in games.

Go back to your playing career with Bill. I mean, were there times, Mike, that you'd come to the sideline and Bill would say, screw it. We're just going to, things have changed. You know, I think that this has probably been out and probably been said. But, you know, people would say, hey, we're going to make some half-time adjustments. And Bill would say, well, if we're waiting until half-time adjustments, and Bill would say, well, if we're waiting until halftime, it's probably going to be too late.

Like, we better be making adjustments by the second or third series. Like, the game plan is already shown its hand. It's what they've practiced all week. You know, pretty much, that's what it's going to be the rest of the game. When did you gain his trust? When did Bill let you call things? I mean, I went in there. And again, this is such a unique situation.

I didn't start a game for four years. Had a conversation with him in a free agency. And he had referenced. plays that I had made in a preseason game. He's like, you remember that preseason game against Miami? He's like, that's what we're looking for. That's what we expect. You know, and I went up there with just, you know, a desire to try to be right and be perfect, which you know, you can't be. You can't try to play like that. And I think it was just something where as things started to go on the first or second year, playing different positions, I think he realized that. I think he valued that,

the versatility, the willingness to play special teams and really do whatever. Once you show them that, once you show any coach that, whether it's Bill Belichick or anybody, once you show them their willingness to do whatever you can to help the team win, you know, that's how you're in trust. You know, I was watching the NBA the other day and they were talking about how Jason Kidd in the huddle, being a former pro athlete, it's easier to sell your culture. It's easier to sell the moment. You know, Jason Kidd's had that ball with 32 seconds left so many times. And I look at you and Mike Tomlin, and you both have such a physical presence, that one of the things that's always remarkable about Tomlin, that he's never had a losing season, which is freaking ridiculous.

It is amazing. It's, I mean, and he's had some quarterback issues and some drama. Are there times, Mike, when you, you know, you're in a moment and you do feel like your playing days and your presence helps you in moments. You can sell things. I think that over the course of my career, I've been every one of those. those players that are sitting in that team meeting. I was a rookie who didn't know what he was doing. I was a player that changed positions midway through his second year. I was a free agent that

signed for less as a signing bonus than what he had when he got drafted. I was a veteran player with a good contract that was expected to produce and I was an aging veteran that got traded and went to a new team that had to try to help and be a leader. So through the course of that career, when I look in some of those guys' eyes, I'm like, yep, I was you, I was you, I was you. And I think that's what helps. You know, Mike, it's easier to be an offensive coach, right? Like we see what's happening to the sport. And some of these great defensive coaches, Bill, Pete Carroll, Vic Fangio's a hell of a coach, Mike Zimmer.

These are really good coaches. But, I mean, you can't coach like you could 12. years ago. There's stuff you can't do. Do you ever think to yourself, God, could you give me a break here? I mean, your team's really physical. Like, that's your stamp to me. Your teams are physical. But do you feel like sometimes the sport has teetered? Tom Brady does feels this way. It's teetered a little too offensive? I don't. I mean, I just, I don't really get caught up in that. I try to, I want to be comfortable enough to coach every position on our football team. That's my goal. When I walk around and I go into meetings, I'm in there to learn to help the players.

I don't want to walk into a meeting and not be able to say something that could help one of our players. So my goal is to learn enough to what we're doing in all three phases to be able to help in drills on the field. Like this phase two right now, this is my most favorite time of the season, of the off season. It's because we're working on technique, fundamentals, and conditioning. And sometimes when the season starts, you have 10 minutes for individual. Now we have 35 or 40 minutes. And this is when you can start to make strides and improvements. You're not focusing on so much plays, but it's the techniques and the details of playing

offensive line or playing outside lineback or a playing receiver. You know, Belichick's history was always making a team play left-handed. I see some of that with you, where I see you attack a team's weakness. Has there been a team in the last couple of years that you have faced? And, Mike, you thought to yourself, man, it may be a salary. They don't really have a flaw. Like they're really hard to coach against. I think that every single week.

I do. In this league, I believe that. If you don't play well, you are guaranteed to lose. I just, that's what I believe. That's how I try to coach. And if you play well, you give yourself a chance to win. We try to treat every week the same win or lose, whether it's a stretch where you go on the road.

And it's the Rams and the chiefs and this and that and the other thing. and our Buffalo and it's one after another, but you really just focus on that week and whatever you did last week doesn't matter. So I defended Ryan Tannahill when he, you know, he made kind of an average, he talked for a while and he made a small comment. And I said, give me a break.

He's 34. He just lost a huge playoff game. He got replaced, you know, they kind of bailed on him in Miami. He's fighting for his career. Give the guy a break. Like at the end of my career, if you, if they could,

draft the talk show host, I'll be fighting like Mad too. Were you surprised the blowback he got for a fairly innocuous comment on Malik Willis? There's not a whole lot going on in the NFL right now. So anything that gets said, you know, people are going to jump all over. I've touched on this. I know the type of teammate Ryan is. And all I can tell you is the first couple days have been been really cool having three great quarterbacks on our roster watching them help Malik.

at practice. He's invited the rookies over already. They've already been in his house. They've had dinner. It's going to be a good dynamic. I said I thought Malik was my favorite quarterback in the draft just because I thought his upside was huge. And there was intangibles about him.

I thought he was great at the podium, which I don't know if it matters to a coach. But I was like, Jesus, that kid's good. Like he knows how to answer stuff. And it felt really authentic. I didn't feel he was BS in me at the podium. Were there intangibles, not just to play? Were there things like that you looked at as a former player and thought, okay, you can bring that guy in our room?

Like, did that sell at all? I mean, I think that you love the play strength when you're talking about on the field, really like his demeanor, you know, already just with these rookies and handling the huddle. And it's a lot. I mean, the first couple of days is a lot. I mean, we're throwing plays at him. We're formations and motions. and cadence.

And, I mean, it's a lot. And then coming under center with, you know, it's no fault to him. They play in the shotgun. That's right. So we'll teach him how to go under center and run our offense. And when we're in the gun and we're doing those things. And every day he's gotten better.

You know, since last Friday, he's gotten better each and every day. And so it's just fun to coach. I don't, you know, it's the times I've seen little clips of you on YouTube, you're not a real barker, but you've got like a player's sense of humor. like you're a motivator. You know, you can be kind of a smart aleck with players. Like how do you view yourself as verbally with players? I mean, I have a relationship with all of them.

Sometimes that's a little better than others and the ones that want to chirp, I don't mind chirping because we have that type of relationship. You know, so it's good. I mean, you can't have that. You can't say those types of things if you don't have a connection or a relationship, right, it doesn't work. And so when Bill and I would do that and go back and forth, it was because we had something that was Bill.

I mean, we'd build a connection, been there for eight years. I mean, I remember one time about my third or fourth year, I did something wrong, and then I was mad. So I went over and I sat on the offensive side. And the defense is over there, and Bill was making adjustments. And I just went on the other side, and I was just going to pal it. And he came over and he said,

he looked like Terry Glenn sitting over here by yourself, because Terry was a wide receiver at that time. And I was sitting where the wide receivers were sitting. And I was like, point made, and I got up and I went out there and I walked back, you know, and I got on the defensive side. And you just kind of know, you know, you just kind of know what's the right thing to say at the right time. Was there a teammate you had as a player that, I mean, you were a big linebacker. Shit, they don't make linebackers like you, 6'4, 2's 50, who I was scared to death of.

Willie McGinnis and Richard Seymour. Why? When I got there, I had remembered being in college, and we used to watch highlights of Willie McGinnis when we were like sophomores at Ohio State. We're like, this is what we're going to be one day. And I'm like, no, we're never going to be like that. He looked like the fancy at USC. And, you know, our D-Line coach, like Bill Young used to put on like his highlights.

And we're like, we're not doing that. And then I go on play and then I'd get up there. And it was like, I wanted to do so well with the guys that had been there, right? Because Ted Johnson had been there. Teddy Bruske, Willie. And I was like the new guy coming in. And it was like, how's this guy going to be? And I wanted just to do so well.

And then we draft Seymour. And I get to play next to him. And he set me up for so many sacks. It was amazing. But Richard was just biggest, you know what I mean? Very similar to Jeff Simmons. You know what I mean? Just their stature and how physically strong they are.

You know, Bruskei barely got recruited. I remember Brucey in the pack 10. I think it was Pack 10, Mike. Right. He was an undersized lineman. It was like San Jose State. He played defensive end. He played Desert Swarm.

And I can remember in, he's one of the best defensive Pack 12 players I've ever seen in my life. And I remember thinking, I don't think he can play on Sundays. He's too small. So when you're with Brucey on the field, like he always felt undersized. In fact, when he worked at the ESPN, I was like, he brought a briefcase in one time. He was running marathons. And I was like, how the hell? I don't understand it.

What was it with Bruske? Well, I mean, I think that there was just an attitude. You know, I mean, there was just this part Filipino, part Italian that makes up a pretty vicious combination. And that's how I used to put it. You know, I mean, he had this bitterness to him and it was a toughness. But he was also very engaging. He was very flexible. You know what I mean?

Not only was he like, he had a great first. step when you looked at him back in Arizona. You know, he had this this power element, but he had this like gumbiness to him that he could like dip and move and bend. And, you know, he just, he's kind of made a lot of plays doing that. He did. Speaking of you, as the game has become more of a passing league, you're one of the exceptions where you're a power team and old school team.

You were 6'4, 250. And I look at you and I think, God, they don't make a lot of linebackers like you. In today's game, where would you play? what would you do? How would you coach you? It would be a defensive end. I mean, I'd probably be, or maybe I'd be a past catching tight end. I'm not sure. You know, we are only, we're only able to get, you know, you have to take these defensive ends in college and make them outside linebackers.

And you've got to hope the inside linebackers that are in today's game in college can hold up, you know, but we've got some guys that, you know, aren't huge, but David Long and played a lot of football for us last year. and we're excited about where he's going to be next year. But he's not the biggest guy, but he plays fast. He plays physical. Zach Cunningham's not the biggest guy. But I think that they both play with a huge physical presence inside.

So we can only evaluate the guys that are coming out of college. And that's what it is. I didn't think Derek Henry was going to be a great pro, obviously wrong. He had an interesting career. He got drafted. And he didn't, I mean, he was kind of a rotational guy for a while. And then something popped, Mike. Take me back to his emergence from like sharing carries to being unstoppable.

Well, I think it got to be a decisiveness. You know what I mean? It's like when we were putting our scheme in, it was, you know, where do I fit? Where do I run? And, you know, I think finally just trust in the scheme, trust in the landmark. Not trying to read too much. I think sometimes you get in trouble at any position that if you try to see too much, you're trying to do too much.

And so I think he narrowed his focus. I think that he continued to work on a stiff arm in his second level. To me, that's the biggest thing is we've got to just continue to find ways to get him to the second level and hope that magic happens and it usually does. Who was the hardest running back you tackled? Adrian Peterson. Well, I mean, he was certainly there because I was older in my career. Jerome Bettis was alone.

when I had to know him. You know, I mean, Ladanian Tomlinson, young Lendany and Tomlinson, those guys, these are hard guys, priest Holmes, Ricky Williams, you know what I mean,

there's just no shortage of good backs. Linebacker today and linebacker in your day, you were hard-nosed. I mean, you were physical, really physical. Yeah. Do you,

is there anybody that you watch in this league? And you see yourself, little bit. No, I mean, I just, players get more, they get faster, they get more athletic and football is always going to be physical. I don't care what scheme you run. I mean, there's going to be a physical presence to, to play in this game. So, yeah, I mean, I'm not, I don't, I don't look and say, oh, that guy reminds me

and me. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to find out if we can get guys that can, that can help us win and play our style of football. There's a piece of video out there that you banged your head when you were in Ohio State and you were banging your head. Yeah, Corey Lindley, apparently, his helmet's a lot stronger than everybody else's helmet. They must have to grab Corey Lindsay and split my head open.

Did you ever think, like, I think you fit in the NFL, but you do have the physical presence to fit in college yet you could walk into a house and recruit kids. Was there over a moment that you thought, I want to be the Buckeye head coach? Forget the NFL thing. Yeah, I don't know if I ever thought it then. I just, after three years of being in college, spring was, spring was tough. You know what I mean? Having played and enjoying coaching and watching baseball, right, when the kids are playing baseball in the spring,

that was kind of like my time when I was playing. And so then when you go on the road for five days out of the week in spring and you're gone you miss pitches and strikes and home runs and all that stuff. It was like, man, maybe we ought to take this NFL look. We spent 14 years there. We kind of know the league. You know, let's see if we can do that. And Billy called when he got the job and everything kind of timed up.

College, it feels like a grind to me. It really does. And now they have recruiting. Recruiting has forced it to be a grind. And it's like, you know, urban you say, it's like recruiting is like shaving. If you take a day off, you're going to look like. like a bum. And you're just everybody, you're recruiting. I mean, I talked to a coach today, invited them to be on our, part of our internship program for training camp, the Bill Walsh program.

And I called him and I just said, hey, you know, excited to offer you the position. And he says, and I said, what's going on? He's like, man, we got three official visits today, tomorrow, Friday. Like, we got nine kids coming in, transfer portal. It's out of control. But, you know, we got to take them if they're looking to come to our place or they're going to go somewhere. I mean, it was like official visits. I'll make it, it's May and they're coming on an official visit. So it is year round. Yeah.

Were you a good recruiter? Yeah. Yeah, it was a good recruiter. Were you? What was your sell? Well, you're selling the Buckeyes. Yeah, it wasn't. When you coach at Ohio State, it's not very hard to recruit, you know.

It really isn't. Yeah, no, I felt like I did a nice job recruiting. I mean, the players that we were looking for and targeting. And, you know, you always lose a couple, but you get some too. There's housing bubbles. There's tech bubbles. There are stock market bubbles. And during the last six months, I've been joking on the air.

Like, we're in a wide receiver bubble. Tyree Kilgo goes for five picks. I remember when I was on the air and I'm like, the hell is that? Five picks. Randy Moss went for like a fourth to New England. England. And, you know, A.J. Brown, he's on the market. There's picks, stuff going on. Part of me is just, Mike thinks, okay, I like, I like my receivers, but God, you got to win the line of scrimmage. Did you look at this offseason a little bit, all these moves at

wide receiver and think, we've kind of lost our way on the value of it? Or do you, like, think the world's changing in this league? No, I mean, I don't know. I know that every situation is different and I know that everybody gets the same amount to spend and you know you have to make decisions you have to make tough decisions and so I don't know I don't know where the receiver market's going to end up I mean I know the good players deserve to be compensated and that's the nature of professional sports but you also have to work within a salary cap and you have to try to find a way to to continue to do what's best for the entire team and so I don't know I don't know where the market's going. I know that, you know, the salary cap's going to continue to go up,

specifically about AJ. You know, I think everybody knows my relationship with AJ and, you know, how much that meant to me. And I hope him and we've had conversations, you know, since he's been traded. It just, it makes you sick, right? Like, he's, yeah. I mean, you just, you have a personal side of this thing. When you try to do it, like we try to do it and make a connection and, you know, care about these guys off the field and making sure that they're healthy, you know, mentally and physically, yeah, there's a business side to it too. And that's what everybody, you know, you have to understand that. And if you put a lot into something and, you know, guys move on. You have to make cuts. You release guys. And so that's the hard part of it. But I don't want,

I'm not going to change the way that we coach. I don't want our coaches or myself or anybody here to change the connections that we try to make to teach them. A lot of young coaches, Mike, struggle to relinquish during a game, their side of the ball. I've seen a lot of coaches that's like, okay, this is my job, this is my last chance. I feel like when I watch you, you're kind of holistically teaching the whole unit. You bounce around. Like I would call it, this is a compliment of bounce around coach. You're always kind of, was that an easy thing?

your first year were you like manic about what timeout time out I want to control my space yeah no I mean I felt like that was how I wanted to do it you get you know I figure once you get hired as a head coach you've got one chance to do it and then so you better do it the way that you think is best and you try to hire good people let them do their job and and you try to manage the game and give suggestions and again I want to be good enough to say hey let's what do you think about this on special teams and then everybody made a big deal where it was joked about when when When I said, are you going to call the defense or the offense? At any point in time, you get to call whatever play you want.

You're the head coach, right? It was a joke, but it was like, seriously, if I want to run a fake punt, run a fake punt if it doesn't work, it's on, you know, everything that doesn't work is on me. That's how it goes. I'm okay with that. So I try to give input. I try to help and, you know, respect the play caller

and try to make those suggestions in enough time that they can make a call. and so that it doesn't affect the team. Finally, Tom's last game in New England, you coached against him and beat him with this pick six. All the years you practice against him, was there, I mean, obviously the answer is yes. There are things that you just instinctively know about Tom because you practiced against them every damn day.

There is no secret sauce, but are there little things you felt like, okay, I saw this a thousand times. at practice. This makes Tom uncomfortable. Anything? Well, it was more or less just the and I told this analogy

when we went up there in the playoffs. It was the line from the movie Catch Me If You Can't when the dad says to the son, you know why the Yankees always win and the kid goes because they have Mickey Mantle and the dad says no because everybody's always

staring at the pinstripes. And the point was don't look over there and see it as Tom Brady and be like, oh, my gosh, how many banners? It was like, just go play our game. Here's what we know about them. They're going to mix tempo or he's going to go, you know. So that was the biggest point that I could probably take about playing against, you know, Tom and Patriots at that point in time.

I think his arm strength, I honestly feel his release is faster. That's the weirdest thing. Like, it's weird. Wasn't there a movie where the kid like had attendance surgery or something like the rookie of the year and he was like a little kid and he was like throwing 95. I think Tom had that surgery apparently. No. Hey, Mike, I appreciate it.

You're a busy guy. Thank you for talking to us. I really appreciate it. Enjoy the conversation. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrathie.

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