The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - NBA All-Star Game, SNL 50th Anniversary, Rodgers Begged Jets To Keep Him, Kevin Durant’s Legacy

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “Breakfast Ball” on FS1! They start with the criticisms of the NBA and NBA All-Star game and why despite all the chatter, the league is in a great place from a business standpoint, why the ridiculousness of the all star game is actually an endearing quality but why they want to see more effort from the players (3:15).  They discuss the ever increasing number of three point shots translating to even more blowouts and why it diminishes the product during the regular season and why NIL could help with the development of domestic talent (9:00). They also break down why the NBA needs to be more comfortable with tweaking the rules to create the best television product like the NFL does (14:00), and why parity isn’t great for sports like baseball (23:45).  They debate the level of difficulty GM’s face when drafting NBA talent when NBA prospects have almost very little exposure to other top talent at the high school and college levels (34:00).   They pivot to the SNL 50th Anniversary special and discuss the massive cultural impact SNL has made on the world of comedy and the huge roster of A-list talent the show has incubated, and why the critics don’t appreciate the greatness that has come from SNL (50:00). Colin talks about why modern critics seek perfection and hopes it doesn’t cause artists to hesitate to take big swings (57:00).  They discuss Aaron Rodgers begging the Jets to stay and still being shown the door due to his ego and lack of self-awareness (1:11:00), and why it wouldn’t be crazy for the Giants to give up a first round pick for Matthew Stafford (1:14:00).  They discuss American’s reluctance to embrace change and why Democrats tend to be far more neurotic when they lose compared to Republicans and Danny suggests an under the radar candidate that could run in 2028 (1:20:00).   Finally, they discuss the two types of “artists” and why LeBron James is one type and Kevin Durant is the other, reflect on Durant’s legacy in the NBA and debate whether winning his rings from joining a stacked Warriors team diminishes that legacy (1:27:00).  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis'clock, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turn, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Our conversation with my friend Danny Parkins is presented by Uber Eats. You know I love them. Get game day deals all season long on Uber Eats. All right, here we go. Even though I am, yeah, on a little bit of a break, about a week break, 10 days. I thought, you know what, I got some time here.

Danny Parkins, co-host breakfast ball stops in. We do this about once a month, and we always just kind of spitball a variety of topics. So I'll start with this one. And it's an annual tradition. The All-Star game in the NBA is fairly unwatchable. It has been for most of the last half-decade. And, you know, people lament what is wrong with the league. I would say two things. First, All-Star games, except maybe baseballs are all kind of dying. We see all these teams every night, these players, there is no special. Ooh, a nationally guy faces an American league guy, you know, interleague play. The second thing, and I would defend the NBA here, and I've been critical of the league.

I think it's become a kind of a monotonous three-point shooting gallery. And that will end somewhere in the playoffs because mid-range games and situational basketball and get a bucket really becomes playoff basketball because much more half court. It's not on the treadmill. People are defending at a higher level. You just sometimes need a mid-range jumper to win the game. But the NBA, 11 years, $76 billion. Owners are happy, players are happy, commissioners happy.

It's not their responsibility if the broadcast partners overreached. So my take is a lot of the complainers don't like the NBA anyway. But the NBA, its owners, players, and employees should be overjoyed right now with a new contract. And the All-Star game is a raindrop in an 11-year rainstorm. It doesn't mean anything. So the All-Star game is a guilty sports pleasure of mine. Maybe my favorite childhood memory was I went to the All-Star game in Cleveland in 1997 with my dad when the NBA celebrated the 50 greatest play. players of all time. And unbelievable stories that came out of the weekend. It was just,

it was so cool for an 11-year-old kid to be able to experience all that in the height of Michael Jordan Mania, kid from Chicago. So I, I love the All-Star game. I love gambling on the dunk contest. I love the dunk contest. I loved Vince Carter. I loved Zach Levine against Aaron Gordon. I always said it was like my guilty pleasure, the celebrity, the pomp, the circumstance, the ridiculousness of it. And there was a social contract that existed between the players and the fans, those of us that did love it. It was ridiculous. It was silly. There was, you know, Shaq would try to cross someone up and pull up for three. We did not expect high-level basketball for four quarters. Go out and do your fun. Don't get injured.

We got all of it. But there was a social contract that basically then said, keep it close and give us 12 minutes of basketball. Give us 12 minutes at the end. and in 2020, they upheld that social contract. The NBA All-Star game in Chicago, it was right after Kobe Bryant died. Team Yonnas against Team LeBron, half the team was wearing Kobe's jersey number, half the guys were wearing Gianna's number. And I think because of that, they also did the Elam ending and maybe some of the history of Chicago mattered.

I have no idea. The game was 157, 155, and the fourth quarter was entertaining. that's all we want. Like, I don't think I'm asking for a lot that I hear these guys on all of their podcasts, including Draymons, he will talk about unbelievable pickup run that gets organized in L.A. in the off-season.

I see it on YouTube, Kevin Durant showing up at the Drew League or at Rucker Park and just bawling out with non-NBA players and trying and playing hard. So I don't think it is too much to ask. Does it matter? Does it affect the ratings or the drop in the bucket, as you call it? No. But somewhere along the way, the social contract was broken of just try for 12 minutes and manipulate the game to be close and play competitive pickup basketball. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask of gazillionaire athletes. I really don't. Some of what the NBA is going through, I always feel like, by the way, you get this in other businesses.

If something happens, it happens in threes. You know, and the NBA is going through a run of, ooh, ratings news isn't good. And the NBA All-Star game is bad and nobody is watching. And I think they're going through this. And I think a lot of it will be forgotten because I think the Knicks and the Celtics will play an unbelievable Eastern Conference Finals and nobody will care. And I think Luca and LeBron will connect and the Lakers will get to the Western Conference finals and nobody will care.

How much of this is, listen, it's just the league's always been driven by aesthetics. And right now, the aesthetics aren't good. The game's a little monotonous. The NBA All-Star game was ugly and boring. Some of this is just bad PR. It may not have no effect long term, but companies go through this. Nike's gone through it where just like bad comes in three. How much of it's that?

I think a lot of it. And but I think that there's like two separate conversations that are happening on parallel tracks that can coexist and feel like they are in conflict with each other, but are not. To your point, this happens to a lot of businesses and a lot of industries. The business of basketball is objectively very healthy. The players have guaranteed contracts. The talent is insane. The contracts are locked in. The Charlotte franchise just went for billions of dollars.

The league is healthy. That is the left parallel track. And then the right parallel track is those of us that watch, that love the NBA, can acknowledge regular season doesn't really matter. It's one of 82. Playoffs are a completely different sport. I just did the numbers on the show today on Breakfast Ball. There are five more threes being attempted this year than last year. And that's just just one year.

Now we're at 74.7 threes attempted per game on average. And do you know what that has led to? More blowouts, results that have been decided by 20 or more points than any other time in NBA history before the All-Star break. There have already been 168 NBA games that have been decided by 20 or more points. And that makes sense. You're taking a high variance shot. one team has a good shooting night, one team is a bad shooting night,

but three is worth more than two, so everyone is trying to hit threes. You have a hot night, the other team has a bad night. You get a blowout. That's not an entertaining product. So I feel like two things can be true. The product is healthy and the product is not at its best. Why are those two things necessarily in powerful? Listen, there are a lot of things.

Steve Kerr pointed this out, it wasn't that long ago, when he pointed out that AAU basketball is not helping the product. It's not. It's a, it's track suit Tony trying to, you know, make a livelihood of it. And the players don't benefit. And the European system is much better. That's part of it. I do think, I do think something that does help the NBA in the near future is the NIL will keep a lot of kids in college one more year. A kid can make four million bucks at Duke or Carolina. Why go to a crappy team? You know, live on a college campus. I think that'll help because the one thing the NFL has always realized and lean into is college football is free marketing. I've said this before. Like water's free medicine. College football is free marketing for the NFL. Adam Silver got into office and there was almost, they tried to marginalize college basketball. The players weren't getting paid. College football players don't get paid for three or four years and they get tackled. It's okay. I don't pay my interns on my show. That's just part of, you know, 16 to 20 years old or 19 years old. So I do think that will help the NBA. I think the

NBA, the quality of basketball is good. I think the league is making a lot of money. I think NBC probably out of somewhat desperation overshot the runway a little bit on that contract. I don't know how they make that work, but, you know, they're trying to make peacock grow against Amazon and Netflix and Disney and all that stuff. So, but that's not an NBA issue. I do think college basketball is an ally. March Madness. I mean, good God, Caitlin Clark comes into the WNBA. Her and Angel Reese are arguably the two most popular players. Right. I think you and I talked baseball before on the show and not to not to name drop, but Theo Epstein and I had a pretty good working relationship when he was in Chicago running the Cubs. And he's the smartest sports

executive I've ever talked to, for sure. But Brad Stevens would be a close second. And Brad Stevens is not going to give up his job right now. But I do think that there would be something that the NBA would benefit from, which, and Theo and I had this conversation on air and off there. When he ran the Cubs, his job was to exploit the rules in the interest of winning. His job was not to put the most entertaining product on the field. It was to win. So strikeouts were okay if you got a lot of walks and home runs.

three true outcome, and it was objectively not as entertaining of a product. The ball was in play less, there was more time between pitches, the games were interminably long, you would change pitchers, every batter, seven, eight, nine pitchers would get into a game per team, but that was what the numbers said gave them the best chance to win. The same thing has happened in basketball with three is worth more than two, but I bring up the baseball point was because who spearheaded all of the rules changes. Theo Epstein. As soon as he left the Cubs, he's like, well, I care about baseball.

So I'm going to close the loopholes that I exploited. Three batter minimum. Pitch clock. Bigger bases. Things to incentivize the things that he had. And if he gets a job running the Nashville expansion team or a Vegas, whoever, he will then go right back to exploiting the rules to try to win. So someone should get in the league office and try to figure out, because we've talked

about it before, I don't know if it's making threes worth four and twos worth three. I don't know if it's making dunks worth three. I don't know if it's expanding the courts and making the three point line 25 feet, 27 feet. I don't know what the solution is, but as long as three is 50% more than two and teams are trying to win, as long as those two things exist, you're not going to get less three-pointers in the game unless you change the rule or two or three. So that is just like the fundamental fact of the math. What's fascinating to me, and I've always really appreciated this, is that it takes baseball and even the NBA a while to make changes. The NFL, which is a

runaway leader in all these sports, is tweaking during Super Bowls. I mean, they have such an underdog spirit. I mean, they could so easily be arrogant like baseball and say for 20 years just, we're going to do World Series games at 8.50 p.m. Let's start them then. The Super Bowl is the opposite. They act like their division two hockey trying to get eyeballs. They will change rule.

And I think they'll change rules. I mean, the Super Bowl with the Eagles and the Patriots, they changed the catch rule in the Super Bowl, suddenly juggled things. It was six. It was a touchdown. It's like, well, right? No offseason needed. They just changed it.

So, and I think in the spirit, I've always defended the NFL. It's a really well-run league. The kickoff was fine. Boring, but fine. Tweeted it. PAT was fine. Boring. Tweeted.

The tush push, I think they will ultimately examine because it's just not good. It's just boring. And again, when people get all upset, why are you punishing us? It's just the way life works. I mean, the bottom line, if somebody takes an advantage and it hurts the quality of entertainment, leagues take it out. But I do think that when it comes to the NFL, we look at it and we go, well, it's popular because it's once a week. That helps. I'm not denying that.

But they have so pulled away from the other sports. And a lot of it, Danny, I think is they really appreciate we are a television product. They're really good at that. Yes. and they mess up and then they undo their mess up. Remember the NFC championship game with the Saints with the bad pass interference call? They made pass interference reviewable and I was like, oh, that's a terrible idea. And it was.

It was a terrible idea. But they walked it back basically immediately. So they like, they changed it too fast. And then they're like, oh, we overreacted. And then they changed it right back. And now listen, NFL players don't like their commissioner. They don't trust their owners. They don't have guaranteed contracts.

They kind of get ruled under an iron fist. And so there is a tradeoff to like, we're going to slow play some of these changes. We're going to empower players to have a voice in it and all that. The NFL does not care about any of that. They're like, no, no, no. You're doing it our way. These are the rules. And if you want to collectively bargain for less practice in July, go right ahead.

We care about television products. But no, the NFL is king for a ton of reasons, and I'm with you. That is one of them. Again, you and I have talked about this before. You've got an in-season tournament. They are changing the jerseys in the court. Change some rules. Just experiment with it.

It's okay. I know they counted the regular season for the standings, but it's okay. It's one of 82. Like, let's just see what it would look like for five games per team with no quarter. three. Let's just see it. I don't know what I don't know what will happen. Let's just see it. Let's let's explain. Four has always been 96 feet. Let's make it 106 feet and make the three point line 25 feet. Let's just let's just see it for two weeks.

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For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called,

Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it and Oh we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers

This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little Notepad Hey Jonas And offered it up as a potential title

For the podcast But thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guess s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it.

Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my GenX squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex?

Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with a new guy? That one's kind of hard, you know? Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to. try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public.

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reef. and finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows.

Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things I like about change is you get an answer, right? Like, even if it's the wrong answer, General Schwarzkopf, you know, the four-star or five-star general talked about that at one point. He said, make decisions just to figure out if it's right or wrong. Like, you, just inactivity, it's finger-pointing, it's guessing. Yes. And he was talking about that in regards to military, either exercises or more moves.

And I feel like sometimes, like, like when baseball, for instance, when fall, sold the regional sports networks. The Murdox sold it. It's one of the smartest moves in the history of television. It was literally worth half as much the next day and basically worth nothing a month later. So they made like $20 billion. But in a weird way, you look at it and think, man, it's really, it's really hurt the small market teams, Kansas City and Pittsburgh. What it did, though, it's separated small from big teams, and now the Yankees, the Mets, the Dodgers, the Houston, the Braves, if you're not good as a big market team, you're just poorly run or poorly owned, is that in the weird way, baseball just had a great two years, ratings up, attendance up,

and everybody's like, oh, though. And so, like, when you make moves and there's mergers and there's sales, there's a winner, there's a loser. But if you're baseball, if I'm Fox, I do not. care about Kansas City. What I care about is what... You and I disagree on this one. Because I do.

Because again, I think that there is a breaking point of greed that you still have to put a good product out there. And like the World Series was great, no doubt. But I think that part of what makes the NFL awesome, maybe. be the number one thing. The number one thing is probably what you said. 18 game season, every game matters. That's probably the biggest thing. But like a 1B of that is that, what do you think? 28 of 32 teams when they report for training can't believe at the very least they can make the playoffs. Right, right, right, right. If the right thing bounces their way and they can. NFL's the league of hope. Ten, seven. Like, yeah, baseball is not. Like, baseball has

a serious problem in my opinion, where a third of the league has no chance, not only of being competitive, but of even like being relevant when school is out, when kids could go to the game. And then like, if you're Pittsburgh, okay, you got Paul Schemes, your chances of signing him are almost zero. So, like, I do think that the haves and have-nots of baseball has gotten too out of whack. I don't you and I just disagree. stars, big markets, TV ratings on the biggest games. I get all of that. And this is a juvenile argument. It's just lame that the Dodgers get everybody. Like, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, they get everybody because they happened to sign the last great RSN TV contract before the bubble

burst. And like, don't get me wrong. They're run exceptionally well and they're a good organization, maybe the best organization. But it's just, it flies in the first. face of competitive spirit that they just get everybody because they lucked into a television contract based on timing. So I, you and I will disagree on that. And there are moments, like for instance, I think you cannot legislate even. College football playoff proved it. You can invite more teams in. Notre Dame plays Indiana. Game was over in four minutes, right? Like, you know, no doubt, no doubt. There's always going to be a have-and-a- I mean, women's tennis my entire life.

There's been one or two tops globally. Serena, she's just going to win all the big tournaments mostly. And I think, you know, if you go look at the German soccer leagues, you can go look at English Premier League, the Italian Soccer League, the Italian Soccer League, Spanish Soccer League. It's always the same two teams. I mean, it just, I don't think, I think the reality of sports is we spend, I read this recently, somebody said the NBA worries about problems. that don't exist. Like they said, let's cut the length of quarters. It's like nobody's really, nobody can. Yeah, that's the best of. I think sometimes in sports, one of the things we really worry about

is we're too caught up on parity. There is no parity in the AFC. Josh Allen Mahomes and Lamar Jackson are going to keep winning their division because they have stable ownership and good enough coaches. And if Joe Brod didn't have the cheapest owner in sports, he'd be in that group, too. So the reality is, I mean, this year I predict almost, and I'll do it again next year. I can predict the AFC for the next four or five years. It's just easy. NFC is more of a who's hot, who's less injured.

But I think in baseball, the bigger danger when you have parity is ESPN's like dropping out of baseball. Like we're not interested. Apple contract was ridiculous. Roku thing was a mess. I mean, just nothing. if the big dogs are crushing, then the big network sign and then that filters down to some degree

to Kansas City or Cleveland. Yes, the problem is unfortunately, we used to call them rich hobbyists. The dream is that your team is owned by Steve Cohen who just doesn't care. he's like, I've got more billions than I can count. I do not care if I lose money on this baseball team.

This is an ego play. This is a vanity purchase. There are more billionaires than there are baseball teams. I want to own one and I want to win. That's the greatest thing ever for a fan. So revenue sharing exists in baseball. Yeah. The Yankees and the Red Sox and the Mets and the Dodgers,

they share money with the pirates and the rays and the twins or whatever. and what is very frustrating to owners and business executives of teams like the Yankees and the Cubs is like they don't spend the money. Like the pirates will just lay in the cut, take their revenue sharing money, and profit every year, as opposed to like reinvesting into the business, breaking even, and having your franchise value go up. that's at a minimum what should be required of these billionaire owners. Spend the money that is generated by your support on your product. That's the bigger issue.

It's not. Yeah. And that's a huge issue. There are bad. There are not that the big guys are eating. The big guys eat in college football, the AFC. The big dogs eat everywhere. What you have to do is force like a minimum payroll.

Like you very easily based on TV deals would know. a minimum payroll and it goes up 6 to 8% a year. That to me is the bigger issue. I say this all the time to the people critical, the Dodgers. Everybody can do what they're doing with that money. Everybody can push it down the road. I mean, it's not like the Yankees are going to go dry in the next 12 years. The Dodgers are saying, basically, we'll push it down the road. We'll give you the money. By the way, we'll do all-star teams. We'll win more. It'll help build our brand. We're always going to fill this stadium. So I guess I guess this is, my conservative side, my Republican side coming out, domination is unavoidable.

There are just people that are more driven, more willful, more aspirational, hungrier, meaner, whatever it is. Like, you just have to come to terms with it where this is not Evergreen State College, you know, where it's the whimsical, idealistic professors dot the campus. We're dealing with billionaires. And so some of them just have bigger egos and care more. And some of them are like, it's a toy. It's a toy to, you know, you know, at a convention they can brag. And so I've come to terms with, and maybe it's because I grew up in the Pacific Northwest

where I've lost my NBA team, my baseball team never competitive, and the Huskies are good when they have the perfect coach. I've just come to terms with you have to be satisfied. If you have good coaching, decent ownership, and you're viable, that may be as good as it's going to be because a third, no, a quarter of all these pro leagues

have expanded to cities that can't compete. Memphis can't compete with L.A., Boston, or New York, or Philly. They can't, and everybody in the league knows it, but those owners want to the expansion fee. There's definitely some truth to that. And to win in a market like that, it feels like you have to have lightnings. And it's one year. You have to draft Janus at 15. You know, it's like, oh, that's how Milwaukee got their title.

You drafted Janus at 15. Okay. congratulations or Oklahoma City and have the best executive in the sport who for some reason apparently is just not interested in leaving like say it's like no no no I'm good I'll just I'll just live and work in Oklahoma City when any team in the league if he was like I want to come work for you would give him a gazillion dollars and a penthouse apartment because he's clearly the best and he's No, no, no, I'm good here. So, like, Oklahoma City's got a shot as long as they've got that guy.

But yes, most teams have a real inequity. One of the things, I think being an NBA executive, so a lot of my contacts are NFL GMs and scouting directors. And so I don't think people understand, you know, SGA, nobody predicted this. Sorry, nobody did, right? He was a good player, but correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't people think like Kevin Knox was going to be the better NBA? Yeah, SGA was a very polarizing draft prospect.

Well, it's a real bad SGA. But what's amazing about NBA executives is that, you know, college football executive, if you take out like Ohio State, Bama, Georgia, most kids stay in school for four years. I get so many pieces of game footage in big. games. If you can't, I mean, if you're, take out the COVID quarterback year where it just screwed up everything. I mean, seriously, just take the Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Justin Fields, kid for the Jets. Yeah, just take that one. We were all desic. I mean, I remember that year, like Harbaugh basically shut down Michigan football. They were just egregiously bad. Belichick

said, screw this. I don't care. Take that out. The hit rate on quarterbacks has gone up noticeably over the last six or seven years. And that's the hardest position for me because so much of it's soul and toughness and leadership and intangible stuff, it's hard to quantify. But these NBA execs, I mean, you're going off nothing. I mean, you can't do high school. You get basically, you not only get like one year of college often, but the first 12 games are against like direct. schools. You may in your conference, he may only face one other NBA power forward the whole year. And oh, yeah, he's 19. Some players aren't emotionally equipped at that point. I'm amazed at the

hit rate in the NBA draft, which isn't very high. I think it's one of the things that we just don't understand. Like, if you said, what's the hardest thing to do for any executive in any sport? NBA general managers are drafting 18 and 19 year olds. You ever thought about that? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I think that what it is is that there is something to watching 10 guys on a basketball floor that isn't that overwhelming. Like you and I can go to a game, a high school game.

There can be an NBA prospect at the high school game. And within what do you think? 90 seconds? We know who it is. I do think that there is something to the, because there are so many people play basketball and so few play in the NBA. And then even the guys that are in the NBA,

obviously there are guys that just ride the bench. Like to be a standout basketball player, you have to be so unbelievably good. And in football, it's like, oh, is that receiver the best deep ball receiver, but his offensive line sucked so his quarterback never had time for the deep ball routes to develop or did the quarterback not have an arm to get it to him? Like, for the receiver to produce on the deep ball, the line has to do its job, the quarterback has to do its job.

Like a lot of things have to happen. It's very difficult to isolate and evaluate. the individual performance within the concept of a team game. In basketball, it's not that difficult to be like, oh, that's the best athlete, that's the best shooter.

And then obviously you start separating degrees, but I think that that is a part of basketball that is just inherently easier to stop. Yeah, it's like one of these music shows. I'm not a music exact, but I can tell like three notes in with Carrie Underwood. You're like, oh, yeah, you could, that's on a label.

That you sell that. right right there's so i think so i think that there is and by the way also what two rounds of an NBA draft 30 teams 60 picks and like 15 per draft really do make it like the NBA draft is ridiculous like we're drafting an international guy where it's a draft in stash for contract rights in 2032 like it's like what is happening like But it's like there's all, there aren't, there are not enough good players because it is so hard to be as good as these NBA guys that you do really get to the point where you're drafting the fact. Which is why, by the way, though, that a guy like Presti is truly amazing. Like to be able to differentiate at that level and have hit after hit after hit after hit, even if they were top five picks, it is, he still picked the, I mean, he's still.

drafted James Hardin, but a lot of teams didn't. He still drafted Russell Westbrook. Teams didn't. He still took SGA. Teams didn't. Like, there's a team out there that took Markell Fultz over Jason Tatum. Like, you know what I mean? So even at the very top of the draft, teams do still mess up. So they deserve credit when they consistently get it right. But I think that that is the thing about basketball is that there is just a, there's an inherent, he's faster than everybody. He jumps higher than everybody. I saw Zach Levine when he was at Ballard High School in Washington State. I bet he was really good.

His sophomore or junior tape. Somebody said, there's this kid in Ballard. You know, I'm from the state of Washington. So I went on like YouTube or something. And I'm like, holy shit. This guy can hit threes. I mean, just insane hops. Just didn't even make, you know, like 38 inch vertical as 16, 17 year old.

What I think the harder part is. And you really never know this. I mean, you wouldn't know this unless you room with somebody in college. You don't know the personality. I don't think Zach Levine necessarily wins games. I think in a possession by possession late in game sequence, he does things that drive me nuts. But he's also productive. I think that's something that not even Sam Presti knows is does that talent manifest itself into being a great teammate, working hard, being great in circumstantial?

basketball. Like, that's where SGA is just a bucket. Like, it's just, whatever it is, his temperature lowers, like his heartbeat lowers. He's better. Whereas there are guys out there, Westbrook's a classic example. You have to draft him. He's just too talented. I'm not sure he's a winning player, but he is an audaciously gifted player. That's, some of that, I think, comes down to luck. Like, you know, it was obvious, like Kobe Bryant apparently had the best workout Jerry West had ever seen. Jason Tatum was another kid that very early on, he was way more mature than kids his age. Everybody was like, he just felt like a 32-year-old man when he was like 19 at Duke. But I do think there's a lot of these kids that you, you know, Jalen Green, I watched

him when he came in to Houston the first year. I'm like, yeah, he's talented, but he doesn't even understand how to play basketball. And then the second year, you're like, oh, okay. That part, I think it takes great coaching, good jamming. That's where a good organization can help a guy. No doubt. And so like just I'll just use a Chicago example. Like so Damar de Rosen is you know a chip off the Kobe Bryant block these legendary workouts, this great leader took guys under his wing, all that stuff. The Bulls drafted this kid Patrick Williams out of Florida State with the fourth overall pick. Crazy talented athletic three and the style wing has all the given God given ability in the world. And there was these big stories of like

man, this guy just floats and he's kind of aloof and like he doesn't. He doesn't. assert himself. So Damar was like, I'm going to take him under my wing. I'm bringing him out to California for an offseason. He's doing my three workouts a day. He's going through like Damar boot camp and he's going to come back a changed guy. And apparently he went, he did the workouts, and he came back and he was the same guy. Like he's doing like, it just, he's not an assertive guy. But he's so down to, he got, he signed a $90 million contract. Patrick Williams will probably make $200 million playing basketball and never really make an impact or be dominant in any way. Failure? I don't know. He made $200 million. He'll make $200 million. But you don't have it.

You don't have that dog thing. Zach Levine, unbelievably efficient offensive basketball player. He was an 18-year-old kid in Minnesota with nobody to like teach him how to be a pro. and then he went to Chicago where there was no one to really teach him about to be a pro. And he was like, I don't know, I'm making hundreds of millions of dollars. I signed the Supermax. I've won the dunk contest. I've been in the three point kind of this. I've got a $30 million house in L.A.

Like, life's pretty good if you're Zach Levine. Like, how much does he really need to change? Because he's not Kobe Bryant. You know, I think that there is just something too. These guys have, there's a little, they're all crazy talented. all make an insane amount of money. And then there's just that, like, psychotic gene that they don't all possess. And some organizations can scout it.

And some organizations can cultivate it. But most can't. And so that's the difference between the best and the other ones. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty. yeah pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwere writer Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the

challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court,

licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast.

How hard can it be with the Adamania Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive.

Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be?

I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now for our segment Hot Off the Press presented by our friends at Louisiana hot sauce. Bring the food at your party to a whole new level with the original Louisiana brand hot sauce. I put it on a pizza last night. It was great.

Bold, authentic flavor embodies the rich culinary tradition of Louisiana. The original Louisiana brand hot sauce perfect for those who demand great flavor with just the right amount of heat. I use it on my eggs. I put it on my sandwiches. I put it on my pizzas. I love it. Danny wants to talk about this, so I want to bring it up. So about a month ago, I read The New Yorker. And about one out of every three or four articles just sticks with me. Yes, it's very left-leaning, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It's just some of the best magazine writing ever. And so they have a Lauren Michaels article about last month or the month before. It was fascinating. So as a kid who grew up on Saturday Night Live, it was just, it was just.

I engulf myself. It takes about an hour to get through, but it is just a great read with a glass of bourbon next to a fireplace, and your mind is taking you to John Belushi and the Betty Murphy's and Dan Aykroyds, Chevy Chase. So they did their 50th. And again, I did not see it.

I'll probably do some YouTubing. Again, on the internet, Tom Hanks got kind of, you know, hammered because apparently he did some MAGA thing. I don't know. What was your interpretation of it? So I loved it. And I was never, so I'm kind of obsessed with comedy. And I was actually never like lock in and watch SNL every week guy. But I got a few thoughts on this. Anyone who is complaining about that, show or criticizing that show, it strikes me as like so clueless and devoid of understanding of the entertainment business on any molecular level that you should have your rights to

criticize and have opinions on things stripped from you. It was a remarkable accomplishment. Just the sheer amount of talent in the room trying stuff. People are like, oh, that wasn't a funny sketch. It's sketch comedy. It's live sketch comedy. Like, bands get to rehearse songs and then perform them. Stand-up comedians get to rehearse material and then perform it. This is you get one shot to do it live. So they're not all going to be home runs.

They're not all going to be the iconic bits. So anybody who ever is like, that was a bad episode or that was a bad sketch, you are inherently missing the point. Like, it's not about. a hundred percent success rate. It's about shot attempts. It's about, you know, Lauren Michaels,

he's like, the show's never ready. It just, it's 1130. That's the ethos of the show. So I think that like that, like any criticism of it just strikes me as like not understanding what they are attempting to do.

And then the cultivation, like we just talk about Sam Presti. Like, what is even close? close in terms of an incubator of talent for second place to S&L. Maybe the Daily Show, like, their run is pretty remarkable of people that came through under John Stewart. It's pretty incredible. But like, the number of people over 50 years that became-

superstars, megastars, is, Lauren Michaels is like the great. greatest general manager in the history of general managers. I can't even think of anyone that is even close to him. And that should just carry such reverence. And I know people say, Will Ferrell would have been Will Ferrell even without S&L. Fine. Maybe the talent was there. But like, would the Blues Brothers have happened?

I don't know. They did a sketch. Belushi and Ackroy got together. Chris Rock couldn't get on the air for like three years until he created, I think, Nat X. Like many of the stars. But Larry David, Larry David famously was a writer,

couldn't get bits on, quit, then goes home, talks to his neighbor Kramer. He's like, just pretend like it never happened. Go in on Monday. He goes in on Monday,

pretends like it never happens, gets his job back, still doesn't really get anything on the air, leaves the show and creates Seinfeld and writes that bit into Seinfeld. Like, it is, they have misses. They didn't cast Jim Carrey. You know what I mean? They, they have misses.

But the sheer volume is incredible. And I just, when you watch, watch the Adam Sandler song, it was so good. It was so beautiful. And there is something to. and this isn't kissing your ass or whatever, I guess it is, but like, you're kind of like this. You are at the top of the mountain. You have success, companies, radio, TV, money, fame, and all of it. You could just retire to an island and stop, but you still do 200-something shows a year and are creative and churning out a bunch of stuff. Adam Sandler is worth a gazillion dollars. He's worth a gazillion dollars.

And so people are like, oh, he makes dumb movies. He also makes, like, there's probably no one comedically in my life more influential than Adam Sandler. His comedy albums were unbelievable. And then his first four comedies are Billy Madison, happy Gilmore, big daddy, and I'm blanking on another absolute mega one. Whatever it was. The Bob Barker, Golf. Yeah, happy Gilmore. If I didn't say happy Gilmore.

Yeah, happy Gilmore. He's just, it's an unbelievable thing. And I went and saw him do a stand-up show 18 months ago when he sold out the United Center. 15 new songs. They weren't all hits. But like, Adam Sandler, that means that that guy is grinding and writing 15 new songs. he doesn't need to be doing that. And are they all hits?

No. But his Chris Farley song is one of the most beautiful comedic things I've seen in the last 10 years. His phone wallet keys song, you think about it every time you look for your phone wallet and keys. Like that song at SNL 50 is going to resonate. His song that he did for his monologue after getting fired was iconic and has like a gazillion views on YouTube. I think these guys and women, obviously, are.

so 1% of 1% talented and still driven that any criticism, and I know I'm rambling, but it just, it really bothers me instead of just appreciating and marveling at the greatness. Remember, comedy critics like you appreciate the swings and even the misses. The people criticizing Saturday Night Live are, it's a lot of the don't get it crowd or the, they feel they're being marginalized. And then they have a right to an opinion. But I do think, I always think it's the silliest thing when, you know, in our business, the media critics, I just don't have a lot of time or patience for listening to a football broadcast and not liking what an announcer says in the third quarter on a fumble.

Do you understand how hard it is to say 300 things each 12 seconds and they all be brilliant? If you can hit 80%, you're just, you know, Troy Aikman, Troy Aikman hits on 70, 80%. That is as good as you. you can do. And he's been doing it for 20 years. He's great at it. And so it's, and I think one of the things about art, people forget this about Marlon Brando. Marlon Brando had, he had like seven legendary movies and all sorts of bombs. That's the spirit of being an artist. One of the, I mean, I think most comedians think Norm McDonald is one of the truest, most authentic stand-up acts of our lifetime. I mean, revered when he passed away. Like, it really, and I think Gary Shandling had that as well. Shandling, if you go look at Shandling's diary, he had so much self-doubt. Sometimes maybe it was

self-loathing, whatever it is, in therapy forever. And I think the great comedians, I mean, Will Ferrell, I've watched five or six of his movies. I think he's probably the most dynamic, even more so than Belushi. I think he's the most dynamic comedic presence on Saturday Night Live. And I think even his stuff, like people don't give the hot tub when he's a college professor. It's one of the grossest, cringiest things. And one of the, my wife and I used to talk in that language for about two years, which could not stop laughing. It was so gross and cringy. That doesn't even get talked about.

It's jeopardy. It's the cheerleader. So, and I think one of the things, what you appreciate about it is, I think, I think, I think, think what most writers who cover comedy, John Mullaney performed at the United Center. I read the next day, the newspaper article. A little too critical for my taste, but he took you through a journey of what it all meant and the rehab stories. I think comedy critics mostly land on your side, which you owe it to the industry to take just audacious swings. And I mean, Norm McDonald bombed regularly at the last thing. factory in La Jolla. It just all the time. Loved it. And he loved it.

And that's the act of it. And these people don't need to be doing it. But it's just in their blood. It's just like who they are. They love it. Remember when ESPN came out with ESPN, the phone, George Bodenheimer,

and it lost 50 million. And I defended George and I said, time out. If it would have hit, it would have been a $100 billion hit. It was a $50 million loss. That is, that's a rounding air. At that time, ESPN was making $8.5 billion annually. When you're an industry leader, when you're Will Ferrell or Jim Carrey in his prime, you owe it almost not just to yourself, to the industry to take big F and swings.

Amen. Amen. And so I just, I'm not, I'm not saying that there should be no consequences or that there aren't. I don't have my preferences or that bits don't miss or whatever. Like you said, everyone has a right to an opinion. But I just don't know how you could watch a three-hour show that opens with Sabrina Carpenter and Paul Simon, like bridging that level of time. And then goes into Steve Martin and John Mullaney doing a co-bottle. Then having Bill Murray sit at the weekend update desk and have Jerry Seinfeld and Julia Louis Dreyfus in the crowd with Larry David. And then watching Eddie Murphy do Tracy Morgan next to Tracy Morgan. It is so goddamn funny. And then just be like sitting there on your couch being like, not good enough.

It's just insane. It's an insane opinion to have. And I just, they should be revered. It should be revered. And I know it is. So this isn't like some sort of like wild stance that I'm taking. But there's just nothing else like it.

And the sheer volume of swings, it almost doesn't matter how many hits or misses they have. It's just the sheer volume. I think artists are different than us. I think they have different brain types than accountants. I don't want my accountant taking LSD. I understand that may be part. Iowasca is absolutely part of Judd Apatow's voyage.

Absolutely. I mean. Neil Brennan, co-creator of Chappelle Show, absolutely. I mean, he talks about ayahuasca all the time. Three mics, unbelievably brilliant special. Blocks, incredible follow-up special. Like, yeah, I'm glad that that guy does hallucinogenic drugs. Yeah. I'm really glad. Like, it's, it's led to some pretty incredible comedic discoveries and breakthroughs. What, what, I think, I almost, I wish people could appreciate people. This idea. idea of perfection. I was doing a podcast yesterday for a friend. And he asked me about my show.

And I said, you know, I said, my goal isn't perfection. It's perspective. I'm not looking to be perfect. I'm taking swings. I think I just owe it to the audience to be entertaining and have, you know, Aaron Rogers is going to the Rams and Stafford's going to the Giants. And I think this is better than a 50-50 shot. If you and I talked about that at the bar, people would lean in. Like, Really? That's fascinating. That's interesting. And so I think, and maybe this has happened my entire life, or maybe I just hope that artists aren't dissuaded from doing great work because the criticism now is so urgent, it's so vile, and it's so accessible. And it's like, folks, you don't understand. Like I went and watched John Mullady in Chicago, Sebastian Manacowsko. Those nights, are one-offs. I mean, I, my wife bought me seats to John Mullaney.

I will remember that until I die. It was that, that good of a show. And, um, don't dissuade artists from taking swings. I think that's, this goes back to the very,

the very point is, you know, I wish Jim Carrey would do more. I wish he wasn't so reclusive. I wish he would do more. Of course. I mean, in,

in, in 19, 1994, Jim Carrey gave us dumb and dumber Ace Ventura and the mask. One year, it's the most incredible comedic year ever. And then he's just like, yeah, I'm, I'm going to do the Truman show. I'm going to do Man on the Mood. And by the way, both awesome. Man on the Mood, if you haven't seen the documentary,

Jim and Andy, or whatever the documentary is called about how Jim Carrey like immersed himself in becoming Andy Kaufman, that is 90 minutes well spent. Talk about creative genius and artist. But yeah, these guys, and by the way, like, we were talking about the ratings of the NBA. The ratings of SNL are still remarkable. Like, for Saturday night, like, that thing, I haven't seen it yet. Maybe they're out. I probably could have figured it out.

my guess is that will be the most watched thing on American television in 2025 that isn't football. Like some football will beat it, but my guess is that SNL 50 will outrate any World Series game, any political speech, any NBA finals game, college football national championship will beat it. Obviously, a bunch of NFL will beat it. But my guess is that that rating will be the best. biggest non-football event of the year. And for them to still have that kind of cultural influence 50 years in, is just insane.

Just insane. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we? How do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the time. podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an acapella band with

their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it.

Join me on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my GenX squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate mid-librous. most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex?

Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard, no. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam?

It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends, stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some

playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you

going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business, brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Cowherd podcast. If you want to enjoy life's simple pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single barrel bourbon, you're getting over a century of craftsmanship

packed into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. You know, I thought, I know we've talked about this before, but speaking of artists, I think if you took any NFL quarterback and said he was more artist, I think, you know, he was more it would be Aaron Rogers. Aaron's very unique. And I tend to believe that people make mistakes, but most NFL reporters are very, very good. So I'm going to trust the NFL reporter who broke this story that basically Aaron begged the Jets to keep him. And it's interesting because I think we both acknowledge Aaron's smart. You know, he's a bright guy, better than average intelligence. But he's had two franchises catch him off guard letting him go. And it's an interesting thing with Aaron.

Generally, these two things coincide. Intelligence and self-awareness. And we think Aaron's smart. And twice, he's knocked on the door of the franchise. And they're like, they do the Vegas dealer. Yeah, we're out. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What I find interesting about Aaron, if this story is true that he begged to stay, is that he doesn't get. Like, he doesn't get his brand. And it's like, Aaron, you're not some dullard. You're not a dim bulb. You're a lot of work.

And you're not nearly as good as you used to be. This, whether you're a talk show host or a quarterback, never ends well. When I read that, he was begging to stay or he really wanted to stay. part of it to me was sad. It's like, Aaron, how do you not get this? Does that land anyway for you? So I don't. So Albert Breer then reported that Aaron wanted to stay,

wanted an indicator that he wants to keep playing, but that he was not, he did not present it like that he was begging. Rogers doesn't strike me as a guy that would get down on one knee and beg the New York Jets for employment. So I didn't buy the behind the paywall New York Post story that said it was like a man walking himself to the gallows and referencing ayahuasca. It was like very New York postage. And so I was like, I took it with a little bit of a grain assault. What I do think is true is that Rogers probably went to that meeting and stated his case. I was heard at the beginning of the year.

I played much better at the end of the year. And what's your plan? If not, me, then who? And they probably don't have a great answer for that right now. So I bet he stated his case. I still struggle to find a team that makes more sense for Rogers than Pittsburgh. People keep saying Minnesota,

aren't they going to try J.J. McCarthy? Yeah, they are. They traded up in the first. first round to draft it. And if they think that they got a great season seasons out of Kirk Cousins, and then a great season out of Sam Darnold, I would have to imagine that they think

that the guy that they picked, they can get a great season out of for very cheap. It's time to look at this week's tastiest matchup brought to you by Uber Eats. I'm going to quickly segue to this. I don't want to spend too much time on Aaron. So there was a story that Jason McIntyre deserves

credit. He talked about it like four days before anybody else did, Stafford to the Giants. And I made two calls on it, and it was a real thing. It's, it's, now, Stafford may just want a new deal and an influx of money from the Rams. That's probably it. The idea of going from Stan Cronky and Sean McVeigh and indoor football to the Giants facing Philadelphia twice a year and Jane Daniels does not feel appealing to me, just chaos to non-chaos. The Rams are a really well-run ship. But it was interesting. So when I proposed that, It was amazing.

And again, it's fans. So how many people said, you cannot give up a first round pick for Matt Stafford? And I'm like, time out. You definitely can. It is a weak draft. You've been unwatchable for a decade. Like, you're the GM of the Giants.

I press you into a corner. What would you give up for Matt Stafford in a weak draft? Yeah. I mean, I would try to. make it next year's first round pick. You got to give up some. I'm not going to let you get away with that. You got to give me something this year. Yeah. Then, I mean, listen, I still think Stafford's an arguably top five quarterback in the NFL. I think

there's a big, I think there's a big four. And then like Matt Stafford, everyone was immediately like, Jaden Daniels is the best quarterback in the NFC. And I was like, I don't know, I think I'll still take the 35-year-old dunk slinger. Like, to win a game tomorrow. I'll, I'll take, I'll, I'll, I'll, still take Stafford over Jaden Daniels, though Jaden's amazing. So yeah, I think that if the Rams were open for business, they would get a first-round pick for Matt Stafford. Even at his age.

Even though you'd have to redo the deal. Like, he's just too damn good in a league now that is all about the quarterback. Yeah, and it's the type of thing that you don't go into it blind. Like, his agent would be given permission to talk to the team. Hey, are you playing? You're not retiring next year, right? No, you're playing multiple years? Okay, cool.

Yeah. And as long as they have a guarantee that Matt Stafford would sign a contract extension, rework the deal to your point, and play multiple years, I do think that he would get a first round pick. He's awesome. He's awesome. I don't really get why the Rams would want to be out of the Matt Stafford business, though. Like, I watched your segment.

And like, I personally would put up with his wife saying goofy things. Well, he's Matt Stafford. I think what the Rams are looking at, some of that public Cooper Cup, Stafford, the Rams felt a bit bullied in social media. The wife, Cooper Cup. It's like, guys, we're really good, we're really good owners. We're good people here. Don't go public. So I think that's part of it.

I think the other thing you have to look at is take Stafford out. Who are the pocket quarterbacks that you really think can win a Super Bowl over the next 10 years? Gough, and that's mostly because the O-line really. of Detroit. The O line is so suffocating. It could move the ball against Philadelphia's D-line. The truth is, I think, and they're also looking at, Matt wants four years. They give him two. So I think it's, they want Matt Stafford. But I do think rent a quarterback for a year, because next year's quarterback class is much better, is Aaron Rogers. I think Aaron, if you go to Aaron's last 10 games in New York with at that point, arguably the worst coaching staff, not in

Chicago in the league. It was the worst coaching staff. And he put up like really decent numbers the last 10 games. My take is with McVeigh, if you could hold those numbers for a year, two-year deal, we drafted quarterback. And I also think Aaron has been humbled. I think I think he'd come, live in Malibu and be like, this is a gift. I'm taking this gift. Oh, listen, I have no issue with understanding why Aaron Rogers would want to play in L.A. for Sean McVey. That's not a leap.

My thing is if I'm Sean McVeigh, I think Matt Stafford is better than Aaron Rogers. Yes, he is. At this stage, I just don't get why the Rams would want to be out of the Stafford business to get into the Rogers business. Like, if

Matt Stafford forced a trade or retired or whatever, then like, okay, we can have that conversation. But I just, I get to me, all these teams that people are throwing out for Rogers, like the Niders, the Vikings, the Rams, it's like, yeah, that all sounds great for Aaron. I think it's much more likely that it's going to be like Vegas, Tennessee, nobody. Like I think that that's where it's going to be like, is he going to just play to play and grind out six wins? or I don't believe that a Super Bowl contender is calling Aaron Rogers.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I don't believe that a Super Bowl contender is ready for him. That was this week's tastiest matchup. Brought to you by Uber Eats has the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Uber Eats has the best, absolute best game day deals all season long. I use it every Sunday. Order now for game day. So I'm going to throw something out at you. And this, I haven't fully baked this idea, but it's just interesting.

Oh, it's best. So I was with my wife for four days, an undisclosed location. And we were just talking about a bunch of stuff. And I said, this was my theory. I said, you know, Americans don't like change. 40% of Americans never leave their zip code. And they don't like sudden change. I said, so what Trump and Musk are doing, it may play well to the wealthy, to the status of the top of the Republican Party. But for most of them, Americans, they don't like change. It's just too much, too soon, too fast. We don't like change. I've moved all over the country. I'm comfortable. I think I'm an outlier. I have nobody else in my family likes it. Nobody in my sister's family likes it. Or my wife's family likes it. People don't like change. So we're going through a lot of change. And I think eventually you do too much of it. And people, it's a turnoff. But I said, I said, I've been watching now for several months since the inauguration and since the win. I dropped. And I said, you would think the Democrats lost by

12 million votes and didn't get a state. And I'll throw a theory at you. I told my wife, driving back, I said, on average, usually the Democrats have more women than Republicans, generally, more African Americans, more kids who are bullied, more gay, lesbian, less, being more people that have needed assistance. And I said, those people, when they lose, are more prone to believe the sky is falling. I said, when conservatives lose, they're like, all right, we just need a better candidate. You know, let's face it, most of us grew up, conservatives were everybody's rich dad was a conservative, right? That's kind of the way it worked. And so I said, if you listen over the last two months to Democrats, you would think, forget the electoral college, you would have thought it was Walter Mondale.

You would think that literally it was a 13 million vote difference. And I said, because I think Democrats, if you look at the base of the Democratic Party, it is often people who have had real struggles, not that Republicans haven't. But there are women have not been as much power as men have. Minorities have not been in power. And that Democrats are overthinking it. If they got a really dynamic, vibrant candidate in two years, it would change everything. And you'd be like, we are number one. This is the party of genius.

And that people when they lose an election, Democrats when they lose the election, are just inherently more negative and neurotic about it than conservatives. I think that that tracks. I know a lot of Democrats who are pretty neurotic. Yeah, you're talking to one of them. Yeah, I think that that tracks completely across the board. And listen, I don't know. I spend an above average amount of time online.

I assume this is your soft launch for your candidacy. Because isn't that you, America just needs to know you? You just need to be like a rich, radical centrist. that gives hot sports tanks and then all of a sudden, you're in, right? Let's go. Forget Stephen A. Smith. No.

Colin Coward, 28. Bring analogies to the White House. I have no interest in it. But one of the reasons I love this podcast is I just throw these half-baked ideas out. And I told my wife, I said, Jesus, eventually all these changes are going to scare some people off. And they're going to go back to moderates or left. They're just, this is too much activity.

for most Americans. They don't like it. A lot of Americans who are being displaced. Maybe conservatives. They're not all liberals at USAID. Yeah, the story of like,

I voted for Trump and now I lost my job. Like, yeah, no shit. Like, do people, like, I'm not saying, like, you deserve it. That's not my point at all. My point was like,

he doesn't strike me as someone that's like doing this with like a fine piece. combed. It is like, the point is chaos and disruption and throwing so much stuff against the wall that it's like a moving target and what am I supposed to focus on. And that's the point of it. He's not, he's not really making a bunch of discernments of like this person and this government agency happened to vote for me. Like, there was just a story I was just reading that was like, they had to undo some firings because it was a bunch of people who worked at like a nuclear test site. They're like, we can't fire the safety guy at the nuclear test. Good. I'm glad. glad that you caught that one. So, so yeah, I'm not, I'm not interested in this next wave of stories of like, I voted for Donald Trump and then I lost my job. Like, he doesn't give a shit. He won. He, he won. Yeah. So just my whole theory is basically Democrats, yeah, they struggle. They're, they tend to be introspective. They tend to be a little more insecure. A lot of their life backgrounds, they weren't in

control. So when you, when you lose more control, it is really off-putting and it throws you, into this dark hole of despair. Yeah, and listen, I mean, it's talking politics is whatever, but I'll do it with you, you brought it up. Democrats try to be all things to all people. Got a very wide net. You know what I mean? Like LGBT, minority, women's rights,

all incredibly valuable worthwhile causes. It's a little bit more complicated when there's two teams and you're trying to be like the thing to all things to all people and the other side's just like I don't know let's just bulldoze the whole thing

like you know that's like an overly simplistic reductive way of looking at it but like yeah they could probably just be like we just need a better candidate and Democrats are like who did we offend and who's the Joe Rogan of the left

and like they're out should we have done call her daddy it's like shut up just get a better candidate Just get a better candidate. That's exactly my point. We come all the way around and that's it. Just get a better candidate and you'll be fine.

Yeah. Yeah. And in two years, they'll probably run Hillary. Oh, Jesus. Oh, boy. Okay. You could cut that. I want to end it on this.

I made the argument. There are two types of artists. Gordon Ramsey. J. Z. LeBron, where there's artistic interpretation or artistic talent, but they're very good businessman. They can compartmentalize. And then there's the artist on the other side who is just all artist and cancels the tour and Sue's Ticketmaster and is, you know, it can struggle with bandmates. And then there's, you know, the other side. There's two types of artists. And that LeBron is very much in the Gordon Ramsey, Jay-Z, Bono, Mick Jagger. I'm not a businessman. Kevin Durant is

sort of the wandering artist, independent to a fault. It's not about championships. It's about being the best you. And in a way, I think he somewhat tanked his career because at 30, there was an argument. He was better than LeBron. And now he's viewed as somebody who just can make baskets and that's about it. You're the thought, where do you, how do you, because I really love watching KD and I think he's such a unique all-time player. I've argued if you did a one-on-one tournament in league history, I'd take him over Michael. I think he's unstoppable at 6-11, just literally unstoppable.

Michael would miss just, if it was make it, take it, Mike would miss once and Durant would just keep scoring. How do you view Durant? Yeah, Durant is one of the greatest offensive. players in the history of the sport, like a true basketball genius in terms of putting the ball in the hole, right? Like that's the objective of the game. There are very few people in the history of the sport whose offensive arsenal you would

take over him. I agree with him that too much of basketball discourse has become rings culture dominant. That we talk basketball basically three ways. We talk about rings and championships, transactions, trades, free agency, guys forcing their way out, the disgruntled superstar. And then the social media drama beef stuff. We're not doing a lot of like how a team defends the pick and roll, right? That's not like a lot of mainstream basketball conversation. So like that media criticism I think is a valid one and he decries it.

but there is also just some truth that not all rings are created equal. That guy didn't have any rings. And then he did a thing that is allowed that you could say that we bear some responsibility for because we said if you don't win a ring, you're Charles Barkley or you're Dan Marino and we mock you for it. And then we moved the goalpost on him and then we mocked him for what he did. But joining up with that Warriors team was weak. It was just, it just flew in the face of. competitiveness. It goes back to my Dodgers point from earlier. I understand why it happens.

I get that it's a have and a have not world. It doesn't mean that I have to like it. Yannis's one in Milwaukee means a hell of a lot more than Durant's two in Golden State. Sorry. It just does. And so if Durant would have won in Oklahoma City, we would look at him so different. even if he just had the one. We would look at him as Joker or Janus, these guys that were singular entity forces of nature who didn't have the institutional advantage of the historic franchise and the warm weather market and the free agent destination

and built the team the quote-unquote right way. And his legacy would be beyond reproach. It would be perfect. if he would have won in Oklahoma City. But as soon as he went to Golden State and won these titles that felt cheap and that they flew in the face of competitive spirit, tanked his legacy, okay. He would hate that phrase, but I can't really have a problem with it because it was a move that just flew in the face of competitiveness. Okay, but let me throw this. Let me be devil's.

It did feel fair. Let me be a devil's advocate. Does it feel fair? Let's say you're an Ohio sports fan. You're like, man, that is so weak what Kevin Durant did. And I would be like, oh, Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith and all your great players, don't they go to where they'll have a competitive advantage over Purdue? Like, the NIL is not just the money grab for the best players.

It's like, I want to go to a team that's already stacked. No doubt. And I don't have much of an argument against it, except in the history of the NBA, that's not what we celebrated. Like, it turned the heat into supervillains. And there was a historic pay jump in that CBA that at that offseason one time, every team in the league could afford a max player. And he just chose, so you choose the 70 win team?

Like, it just, it was, again, this is a reductive. It's just lame. You know what? It's just lame. I always felt Kevin Durant, people preached to him loyalty. And he watched the Sonics moved Oklahoma City. So in the back, so in the back of his mind was, This is all about the green.

And then when Russell Westbrook would eat up the shot clock and get him the ball late, and the organization actually Westbrook was, you know, the better athlete. They weren't going to bail on Westbrook. And I think some of it I defend Kevin because I think he went, okay, I got drafted by Seattle. Now I'm playing in Oklahoma City. And you have a point card who can't get me the ball. until the end of the shot clock. And so if I'm going to move,

I'm not moving to a crappy team and a crappy city. I'm going to the bay, Joe Lacob, and Steph Curry. Yeah, again, I get it. And the team was an unfair cheat code. And he won and he got his rings. But it would have meant more

if he would have won in Brooklyn or Phoenix or Oklahoma City. I don't make the rules. I just enforce them. Man. I do. I mean, right? Every title is not the same.

You agree with that. Yeah, I mean, the Lakers COVID title doesn't feel like the Celtics last year. Yeah, but also, like, I just, in terms of, Yanis's Milwaukee title is a call it, this call, again, immature. That is a pure title drafted by the team, 15th overall. Chris Middleton is the running mate, and he has one of the three greatest game seven, you know, championship close-out performances ever in NBA history where he drops 50 and he wins a title.

That one thing is more sports pure than LeBron in the Heat. Doesn't mean LeBron and the Heat isn't a better team, doesn't mean it wasn't more exciting, doesn't mean it wasn't better business, doesn't mean I would not want to go to South Beach and play with my friends. But, like, Janus's title in Milwaukee is just, it's special. It just means a little bit more in history. Jokers in Denver, it just means a little bit more. That's fair.

I just, I just, I just, I think we all kind of know that. We just, you know, we don't, we don't like to admit it. It doesn't feel fair. Well, that's why. But we all, I think. But we just know it to be true. Yeah, I think if the Knicks won, being able to make a deal and really steal Jalen Brunson is make a deal, a risky deal to get Carl Anthony Towns, and then McAle Bridges and give up a lot.

I do think like the Knicks title would, I don't think they match up well with Boston at all. Boston offensively just attacks Carl Anthony Towns and Brunson. But I think one of the reasons that the Knicks are so likable is that, you know, Carl Anthony Towns has had a lot of failures and Jalen Brunson's a Nova guy, a second rounder. I think there is value to, there are certain teams that are much easier to root for.

And I don't think the Healds or most Laker teams are terribly easy to root for. LeBron's Cleveland title means more than his L.A. title or his Miami titles. We all know that. We all just know that to be true. And there's a reason for it. hometown kid, he was an underdog in the finals, led both teams and all five.

I mean, that's the greatest NBA finals performance ever. I would make the argument that that is the most impressive NBA title ever, the one that LeBron won in Cleveland over Goldman's. Funny thing about, there's a ranking. The funny thing about that finalist, six of those games were blowouts, and then game seven was magical. Game seven was magical. It's like, it's like an average movie. with a great 12 minutes to cap it off.

No doubt, but the accomplishment was amazing. What the trophy represented was like, holy shit. Like he went home, he won, he won as an underdog, he beat the super team, he led in all five categories. It was unbelievable. It was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in sports. Danny Parkins, breakfast ball. We fired through an hour, hour, hour 15. We gave you a little bit of everything. We kind of go all over the board, but I sometimes. I just need this. It's therapeutic. I love it. I love talking with you. I love picking your brain. Good stuff, man.

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