The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - NFL Schedule Reaction: 49ers Cakewalk Schedule, Chiefs BRUTAL Schedule, Caleb Williams Didn’t Want To Be A Bear

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the NFL schedule! They start with a ridiculously easy schedule for the 49ers (3:30) and debate whether that gives Brock Purdy leverage in contract negotiations and whether Kyle Shannahan has been too involved with drafting (6:45).  They highlight the Chiefs schedule as being particularly brutal due to their weak offensive line and the elite pass rushes they’ll face  (10:30) and the pressure NFC North teams will face (15:30).  They dive into the reports that Caleb Williams debated forcing his way out of Chicago drafting him (27:00) and why he’ll be better set up for success with Ben Johnson as head coach (33:30). Finally, they discuss what the Steelers will do at quarterback if Aaron Rodgers decides to retire (34:45) and why that franchise has stagnated in recent years (38:00) (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The volume. Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So you know, degree, cool, rush, deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula, and it did not go over well with their fans. So Degree's whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort.

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C. J. Stroud once. This is the weakest schedule in 15 years. The Atlanta Falcons had this schedule back in, no, I think it was 2015. It'd be 10 years. So it's the weakest schedule in a decade. And I'll throw this at you. I said, if I was John Lynch and looked at the schedule, I would sign Brock Purdy now because this schedule screams 12 and 5, 13, and 4. And right, now he's coming off losing season. So if you have any leverage, could I say, John, it's the next month to two? Yeah, I mean, I think his, we obviously have spent so much time talking about this. His whole thing is comparing himself to other guys. And these recent contracts of guys like Jordan Love who played eight games and got $175 million, Tua who got $160 million,

Trevor Lawrence, who got $200 million. Like, he does have a leg to stand on given that he's played well and been a part of a team that was in a Super Bowl. But my issue is like, that money's coming. Like he's getting the contract. We don't know exactly 150 million, 180 million, 130 million. I'm sure that's, you pay him, let's just say, conservatively, $50 million a year. Kyle is one of the highest paid coaches at $15 to $18 million a year. If I'm paying my head coach and my quarterback close to $70 million a year, at minimum, I don't care who else is on the team, because this roster is not as good as it was a couple years ago. I need double-digit wins.

I mean, we've seen it with the Rams the last couple years. They found a way as they retooled. I would say anything less than double-digit wins. I have supported Kyle thinking like, oh, he's on the hot seat. That was insane talk. But there is a contingent of those humans that exist. Kyle can rub some people the wrong way. I think he's a pretty elite coach.

He's proven that. But this is a big year for him. Again, I don't need 12, 13 wins. I don't think the roster is quite as good. But if the Ravens or the Bills or the Chiefs had this schedule, we'd be talking like, can they run the table? Ten wins minimum, I think is more than fair. And I think that is going to be the expectation, or things have gone really, really sour. Yeah, I said that.

If you gave Stafford, Borough, not Borough, because Cincinnati, I don't trust their front office and ownership. But if you gave Josh Allen, Lamar, Mahomes, and I think Stafford and McVeigh this, we would be talking about 13 or 14 wins. I mean, that's even Vegas would probably put the over under at 12 to 12 and a half. So, you know, I think one of the things that bothered me, John, I've said this, and this is my interpretation, I could tell when Bill Belichick took over drafting with the Patriots. He was drafting players who would plug immediate holes, often reaching for people. General managers tend to have a little bit of a longer vision. I can tell when Pete Carroll in Seattle, I could tell they were reaching on some players. And I'm like, that's not John Snyder. last couple of drafts when Johns controlled them have been excellent. I do feel like the last couple of years,

I felt like Kyle's had a lot of say in drafting. I find their drafts for the moment, not for the future. I, Ricky Pearsall, it's like you've got Jennings and Debo and Iyuk and Kiddell and McCaffrey. You've got enough pass catchers. That felt like a coach who wanted to replace Debo. That's what I see. I tend to be able to say, okay, I can tell that to coach's draft or a coach is putting pressure. I didn't like the Niners draft. I thought they didn't attack the offensive line, which is a huge issue. What did you view of their draft?

I've come to the expectations now Kyle has admitted, like we don't value offensive linemen, unless we think you're like an all-time great. We'll pick a skill guy or definitely a defensive lineman, which I'm for. but they just don't draft offensive linemen, especially tackles. He's not going to draft a tackle in the third round, which I think is insane. I had a college scouting director because I was talking a lot about this too, during and before the draft, how different personnel departments work. He says, you can always tell when the coach is heavily involved because they treat the draft,

you can tell they're looking at the depth chart. You know, scouts in front offices aren't consumed with the depth chart because the depth chart to Kyle is week one against Seattle. You know, John Lynch, and these, like, Mikel Williams is a real pick, right? The kid from Georgia, that's a big picture pick that any team takes. That's not the depth chart, whether you had 10 defensive

ends or one, you have no problem picking him. But like you said, Ricky Pearsall, it's like, well, you know, this Iyuk thing's going sour, we're already turning on Debo, we might trade him right now or over the next year. That's a depth chart move. And I think that's where you get into trouble, you know,

there's a balance of need and big picture, but coaches are just Oh, Kyle's not worried about 2007, he's worried about this year trying to win 11 games and be in the playoffs. And I don't blame them. But that's why there's got to be a little separation between church and state.

You know, look at the Eagles, have the most powerful GM. Look how they've drafted. Then the coaching staff, coach the players. It's gone pretty well. Yeah, it's, so, and I also think there are things, I think Arizona is going to be a real team. I think Seattle's roster is really impressive. I think the Vikings will miss Sam Darnold.

And I think the Rams defense. I think it's the best young defense in the NFL. So I thought last year was a year where Arizona and the Rams overach – I mean, I thought the Rams overachieved a little. I thought Arizona wasn't quite there yet with a new coach. And I thought Seattle with Gino Smith had limitations at quarterback. I think the division's much better. It definitely is.

Yeah. I mean, so I just don't feel it. The schedule is – it's a save. I'll tell you that because I – I do think this, though, Colin, if you go, we do agree Kyle Shanahan has false of times is one of the better coaches in the NFL. Yes. Listen, Robert Sala, head coach, Jets, not an easy spot, a little over his head.

Most people view him as an excellent defensive coordinator. I don't know. I don't have the spreadsheet because it's not public. I would imagine Kyle and Robert Sala when you combine the head coach and defensive coordinator. Beside like Andy and Spags, there can't be a higher paid combination. This is a coaching league, right? Because you talk a lot about this, the margins are small. I think you've got to like your chances, even if you've got some now random players on the team.

Yeah. That they're offensive and defensive coordinator. The guys calling the place are really good. So I'm a little more bullish. Now, we're going to find out pretty quickly. Like, if they've whiffed on some picks, I don't care if you got Bill Walsh and Belichick in his prime. You can only do, this is the NFL. Like, you need some of these guys to become players.

So I want to talk about Kansas City. So when you have a dynasty, every dynasty's got a weak spot. Like when New England got into trouble was near the end of the second dynasty when they just didn't have enough receiver speed, when they couldn't separate. Tom had to play perfect. Nobody could get open. The famous sideline shot of him screaming, somebody get open. That was the hole in their dynasty outside of the Randy Moss years. You know, they weren't electric down the field.

It was more tight ends, run game, Tom's efficiency, Tom's 23 for 29. They just don't make mistakes. They beat you late. They were never electric except the Randy Moss years on the perimeter. Kansas City's weakness has been immature wide receivers and offensive line. When they've been blown out, and it's only happened a couple times, both in Super Bowls, they've had left tackle issues or offensive line depth problems. They're just missing good players.

So I look at this year, Joe Tuny was their best offensive linemen. He's not a replaceable guy. There's nobody in the draft close. They're now going left tackle for a guy that was a backup in San Francisco. This is, to me, the weakest O-line they've had entering a season. Can they make a move at the trade deadline? Certainly possible. But if you go look at their first 10 games, John, even the bad teams they play,

the Giants now have Abdul Carter, Dexter Lawrence, Tebowdo on the other side. The Raiders have Max Crosby. The Broncos, they're better than. Broncos led the NFL in Sacks. The Jaguars have a good defensive front. I'm just mentioning the games that look like wins. I looked at Kansas City schedule early,

and I'm like, they could have used some of those games late because, you know, it takes a while to create co-he. You don't replace Joe Tunney in the preseason. Like, you need snaps. I thought Kansas City schedule was about as tough as the league deals to a Andy Reid-Bea-Holmes pairing. Well, I also think it's easier on players to play, you know, games at noon in Kansas City than they have five of their first eight games are prime time, and they've got to go

to Brazil, which I understand the international, especially now with streaming. The Brazil thing, I don't quite get, Colin, going to Brazil. I don't quite understand that market. But I'll say this about the Chiefs. Their first-round draft pick would have been a top-10 pick. not torn his knee. Well, that's a pretty big red flag tore his knee, but assuming that he can come back, they did get a very, very talented guy in Josh Simmons that can play left tackle. Now, whether he's ready for the start, whether he goes on Pupp, time will tell. But that was not just this year,

but over the course of the next several years, they might have found their starting left tackle. The BYU kid that ultimately got benched and Tune had to move to left tackle, I think they plan on moving him to guard. So Andy Reid has a long history of mix and matching and figuring things out. I know you're high on the Chargers, and I am too. I'm a Jim Harbaugh Homer. Of course, they take a running back in the first round that'll end up being like a 1,400-yard rusher by a second year at the East Star. But I just can't. And I have been someone, and I know these guys personally. I've bet against them twice down in the last two years against the Ravens and the bills. And that was the playoffs and I've been burned. We saw last year, everyone was nitpicking them.

Week in, week out, they won every freaking game. Now, the big difference between them and the Patriots is Patriots benefited. Their division was pretty terrible. Like this version of the Bills team was not even close. Miami was a joke, right? Yeah. So their division, this division's really, really hard. I mean, Pete Carroll, if he's the worst, has the worst team in your division, like, that's a problem. But I think the chiefs, you know, we throw this, the word culture, I think sometimes gets thrown around too liberally.

It's real in Kansas City. Like, they're winning understanding. Listen, there's going to be a year when they don't make the Super Bowl and they get knocked out in the second round. But it's going to be hard. You're going to have to knock them out. And I'm picking them to win the division until they don't. Now, this is clearly, I would say, of the last five or six, you know, since the Mahomes era, going to be the most difficult.

But, you know, Colin, the Giants, week three at Jacksonville. Like, I get it. Sunday night, Monday night, big moment for those two against Liam Cohen and this Jackson Dart, maybe, Russell Wilson. Like, I'm just picking the chiefs in those games. Is there anything that, I mean, they have the Vikings back to, back in London. I don't like Minnesota like everybody else. I think they're a fourth place

team. Was there anything about the schedule that jumped out to you? I think when you look at, I lump Minnesota and Chicago in the same thing. I got 30 years of history. Green Bay every year, for the most part, is 10 plus wins, right? And the Lions now, I think, have established themselves.

What happens in the playoffs? Who knows? But they're going to be a double-digit win team. When you look at the Bears and you look at Minnesota, because of the divisions that they drew this year in the rotation, it's hard. And the pressure, listen, this Caleb thing, I'm sure we'll talk about it. A lot of pressure on him, a lot of pressure on the Bears, a lot of pressure on McCarthy. And the pressure is not like on DJ Moore or Justin Jefferson. It's squarely on the

quarterback. And these games, like you said, you open, you open your NFL career at Chicago. Well, that's just, that's tough. And hell, you could argue the same thing on the flip side about at Caleb Williams, your first game with his new coach, Monday night. watching? These are just intense environments on these two quarterbacks. Now, Caleb has some seasoning. Like, JJ does not in terms of ever played a regular season game. But I think those two schedules for those two guys, not every team in this division can win 10 plus games. One of these teams is going to go eight or nine or worse, right? It's going to be one of those two teams. I don't know which one. Like, I know Kevin O'Connell can be a head coach. I love the Vikings

roster, but man, this guy's never started a regular season game. If you told me right now, he's a top 15 quarterback. I'd be like they'll win 10 or 11 games, no problem. But if you tell me it's Rocky, I don't care how you could have 10 Justin Jefferson's. If your quarterback plays overwhelmed, it's hard. I mean, we see it every year. Good teams and their quarterback plays poor. You're screwed.

And the Packers drafted a first round wide receiver. The Lions are stacked offensively. The Bears have spent a fortune on their offensive line. J.J. McCarthy is going to have to throw the ball 35 times. This is not a defensive defensive. This is not the AFC North. This is the NFC North, and it is going to be a track meet. And so that's my question with J.J. McCarthy.

I would feel differently if you were in a different division. But Detroit is stacked offensively with the best line in the league. You can say what you want about. Ben Johnson is going to be better with Caleb Williams and Mattiever Fluse, and Dolman and Tunney changed the offensive line. Yeah. And then, you know, Green Bay is Green Bay. they went and got another wide receiver,

which tells you, we're going to make this Jordan Love thing work. And it wasn't terrible last year. There was just some bumps. So my thing is McCarthy, who never threw the ball at Michigan, is going to be asked to throw the ball 40 times the game a lot because either they'll be trailing or they'll be in shootouts.

This is going to be a shootout division. So I just don't love them with that is the marquee to the movie. But do you feel comfortable? I mean, listen, we have a strong recent history of these young offensive coordinator, hitting the ground running and being stars. Some of them get overwhelmed historically in the league. Like Ben Johnson, it is, this is not an easy first job, right?

It's like solid with the jets. A lot of people are watching. There's a ton of hype. The Caleb stuff is already, even though it's weird, right? Everything we're talking about today in this article is based on something 18 months ago. It's not like he just said this yesterday, but still, I mean, this is something that carries with you. I think there's a ton of pressure on him because I would say the same thing about Caleb.

Like he's just going to outdule the LaFleur's offense and the Lions group. I mean, it's going to be hard. Like he's going to get in some shootouts. You know, he kind of freelanced. Now, he's more comfortable. He has a history. He is used to, I've been in shootouts. I can play like that.

JJ was not. I mean, JJ was on a team that, I mean, was the big Ohio State is always built like an SEC team. Like an SEC team with unlimited NFL players where they hand the ball off and they play defense. So, yeah. That's right. One of those two teams, I got to give it a little more time, but it's just not going to go as well as the hype because the expectations, I would say, for, I mean, for Minnesota, they have a, what do you think, a top six, seven roster in the NFL, minus the quarterback. I mean, they got one of the better teams in the NFL top to bottom.

Yeah. And I see the Bears have a pretty damn good roster, too. Oh, I totally think, I think Chicago's offensive, you go line, tight end receivers, and Ben Johnson, I just don't see. You know, I mean, go look at Hackett to Sean Payton. It was a touchdown to eight points a game. And I think Iber flus to Ben Johnson is probably somewhere between a field goal and six points a game. But here's the thing, though, Colin, and this is what I get back to with a coordinator. Ben with Detroit, who just became like Kyle Shanahan or McFey or whoever, all he had to worry about was the place, right?

Now on Monday, what happens when your backup safety got a DUI on Tuesday? hey, this guy turns out he shattered his ankle. Like, you have all this other stuff coming. You can't just sit there and scheme plays nonstop, especially the first time head coach. And then when the game's going on, you got to manage the clock. You got a lot going on for the first time ever.

It's just a tougher transition. And that's where Kevin O'Connell, to me, has a big advantage. He is used to just being the play caller slash the boss. Like, there is a learning. If you told me, hey, John, you not only need to get all the content and record a podcast, We now need you to run the sales and the graphics and do some cuts. You need to do it. It'd be a curve for a couple months of me figuring out how to manage everything, right?

So that's, I'm always just hesitant when it comes to guys first time head coaches. Think how much easier. Pete Carroll, he's sitting in that desk. He's very comfortable in, you know, telling who, what to do when. Like, he's just done it before. So that's the only thing. And I'm not anti-Ben Johnson. I mean, what he did the last couple of years was awesome.

It is just a lot harder taking on a lot more responsible. and trying to maintain your boy genius kind of narrative the way everyone talks about. I'm like, The NBA 82 game grind is done. Now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs, love them. They're here. Time for drama, clutch moments.

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jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title. for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen she won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, Founding Partner, a partner, I-Heart women's sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, the Caleb thing is funny. So I went on Chicago radio a year ago before the draft. And I don't do a lot of local radio shows because I don't know who the people are. And, you know, you can get burned. But I knew I was going to move to Chicago. So I go on the Chicago radio station. I forget which one. And, and I say, you know, I'm being told that it's Caleb Williams would ideally, his dad would not want him to go to Chicago. but he's going to bite the bullet and he loves the city and he wants to be the first great bear's quarterback well i go off the air and somebody sends me something or a clip or something

they basically dogged my sources coward doesn't know anything well it comes out seth wickersham basically uh today came out and said yeah basically his dad didn't want him to go there he's got multiple quotes and i'm like well may have been that set and i had some of the same sources he had agents. Apparently, Seth had talked to his dad. There had been multiple agents. I didn't get it from Caleb's dad, but I did get it from people very close to Caleb. And so I think it was the same station, reached out and said, hey, you want to come back on and spike the football? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to pass on that. You know, I'm not bitter, but it's like, you know, if I give you that, if I give you the time, don't question my sources. You don't have to like my opinion, but, you know, I wouldn't go on and make stuff up. So, and the truth was, and I was thinking about this today. Didn't Caleb kind of come out or like some of his people right away after you said that and say it's kind of bad. Right. Yeah. Well, they said, we're good. We're good. Of course they did. They don't. And I, you know, like I knew the game. That's why I didn't react to that. I knew what was going on. I knew what I'd been told.

I knew it was the truth. Somebody who'd been good, never burned me. It was fourth or fifth time I'd gotten good information from somebody. But the point was, I didn't blame him. I said, Yeah, if my son was a quarterback, I wouldn't want them to play for the Bears. They've never had a 4,000-yard passer. That's literally impossible. That's like driving a car for your entire life and never having like a parking ticket or a speeding ticket. It's just going to happen. It's inevitable, right?

And so when the story came out today, my take is it just doesn't bother me. Like they looked into, you know, what could they do legally? And they said, yeah, the only way around it's just to do an L way and go public. and let's just not do it. But it doesn't bother me. We've got an Eli situation. We've got an Elway. And I think the bears are historically unique.

They've just never done that position, right? Does it bother you now that Seth Wickersham comes out and says, yeah, they thought about making a stink? No, I mean, ultimately, I don't really give a shit. But I would say this. I don't think it helps Caleb. And I always take the stance of, like, I never blame, you know, why. lives, parents, their relationship with a player is so much different than everyone else. Right? So they are so much closer to the sun emotionally. It doesn't bother me.

I know people with Oklahoma, I was hearing a long time ago that his dad's a lot. That's part of college sports. You deal a lot with the parents. In the pros, nobody wants to hear from mom or dad. Not a soul. We're paying Caleb, $40 million guaranteed. Let's throw 30 touchdowns. And I think his comments sometimes, like, you know, he's trying to be a supportive dad. No one has any issue with that. Jaden Daniels' mom forces all the flusies to stay away from her son. Well, guess what? Her son's playing really well in football.

She doesn't talk anything about his professional life. It's all personal stuff. This guy comes out and makes comments about the CBA is unconstitutional, the rookie wage scale. Well, why do they create a rookie wage scale? because guys like Jamarcus Russell were scamming the league where the veterans weren't getting the money. So Caleb, you know, if that rookie wage scale hadn't been, so when you make comments like that, people kind of look side-eyed. Listen, and the other thing that really comes through is Ryan Poles is quoted in there like, we're taking you, buddy, so get ready. Like this, you talk about this a lot.

Player empowerment, the NFL doesn't really roll like that. I would say this if you're Ryan Poles. Like, you know, Adam Peters, do you think Adam Peters right now would trade Jaden Daniels for Caleb Williams? in the situation. And here's the other thing. A lot of Caleb's, Caleb wasn't making these comments about the CBA or going to the UFL, it's coming from his dad. But all these comments get aggregated. And a lot of the players in the league see this. And they're like, who does this kid think he is? And I just think it adds pressure. And again, this is, I would be more worked up if these comments came last week or two weeks ago. This was last January, February, before he got into the NFL. But I'm sorry, it just does not help his situation. It adds pressure. It just has a lot of craziness to this situation. New coach, and they get to start fresh. But I just think that, like, we just need to calm down and just win some games and throw some touchdowns before you start. Remember last year the equity talk?

We want in on the franchise. You're going to go to the UFL and sit out of year. You're like, give me a break. You know, and again, this is his dad. Caleb's not saying I'm going to the UFL. And at the end of the day, all these comments didn't come true. He just allowed, he went to the Bears. And they were not wrong about the coaching staff.

I mean, that was a disaster, which we all knew coming in. But I think sometimes with a very aggressive parent like this, and I haven't seen a quote from Caleb's dad since he got in the league, you got to be careful about saying some of this stuff because your son has to cash those checks on the field. So I just think if you're the Bears, you're like, oh my God, when you see this come out. Because again, didn't he write a book on a bunch of quarters?

And this is the thing that gets cut. And this is, you know, the headlines going viral, getting just sent around. I'm telling you, Adam Peters goes to bed, like, God, my cornerbacks, just no issues, no problems. And it's just sometimes it's your family. But, man, this is, you just don't want to deal with any of this, especially when you're not making plays. I mean, it did not go well. Yeah, the, I think he's set up for success now. I mean, we were talking about it in the show today.

Tua and Jared Gough had bad. first years and bad relationships with coaches, or at least coaches that didn't get them. I do think there's more good offensive coaching than ever before in the league. And your second or third team, Gino Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker-Mayfield, you know, Baker got Liam Cohen and McVeigh after Freddie Kitchens. Like it does sometimes take a while. It used to be if your first place didn't work, there just weren't that many great offensive coaches in the league and they weren't leaving places where they were located.

Now, guys, it's a much more mobile society. There's good offensive coaches. If you have one or two good years at a place, you're a head coach if you're an offensive coach. So you can actually have a hiccup in your first stop and maybe your second and maybe get a third shot. So I think that boughs well for Caleb. Like a Jared Goff, I didn't think he stood a chance last year. I think it's much more set up to succeed. You know, we talk a lot, Aaron Rogers, and I know it's tiring.

but, and I really don't care where he goes. If he retired, great. If he goes to Pittsburgh, fine. They're a third place team. I don't really care. And he has some personal drama situation in his life, so I can have some sympathy for that. I don't really care.

That if you were in the league and worked in the league, if he just retired, how would Pittsburgh view him if they were caught off guard? I just don't think they had many other options. Like I don't think that they are losing a bunch of sleep over the situation, which sounds crazy. But we have a pretty good sample size now knowing that they think they could get around, I don't know, somehow not having, attempting to get a Joe Burrow, a Lamar Jackson, just drafting quarterbacks year and year out. But at this point in time, Colin, it's May 15th. I mean, what are we doing here?

I mean, I think they have to at least have come to grips with like everything's kind of on the table here. They cannot for a very old school organization. I saw a quote from, I don't think he's the Papa Rooney. He's like the 60-year-old Rooney that said, you know, we don't love playing at night late in the season. It's like, well, that usually means you're good. It comes with the territory. You think Andy Reid wants to play all these night games? No, but it comes with being the Chiefs.

You're the Pittsburgh Steelers. I just think they have gotten to this position where, and it's hard. I mean, look at the Saints. Drew Breeze retires and they're just going through quarterbacks. They try to Derek, that failed. Now they're in this weird position with a 28-year-old rookie. It's not like an easy solution, but they've shown their true colors of like, their organizational philosophy is run the ball and play defense.

That is, Bruce Ariens, when Rothesberger was turning into a star, the Rooney family was not happy with them throwing the ball so much. That was when they were winning the Super Bowl. You know, the organizational philosophy does not start with Mike Tomlin. It starts with the Rooney family. play D run the ball I mean look they draft that running back who I like the Iowa kid and they draft

defensive tackle in the first they've been doing the same thing since well before I was alive and I think they're going to be doing it well after Tomlin's gone one day so I think whether Roger shows up or whether they have Mason Rudolph hands the ball to Caleb Johnson and they try to stuff the run with

Harmon and T.J. Watt like that's how they're going to play which is insane but you could argue even if he shows up they're going to be Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson in some of these teams? So it's the bills. What are we even talking about? They are kind of stuck.

They're like the better version of the post-Paeton, Drewberry Saints, but it still doesn't get you anywhere. And it leads actually to a lot more animosity where it's like, what are we doing? Like, how often are we celebrating? He's never had a losing season.

Yes, we know. He's really good coach. But like, if the organization, we don't pick or go after young quarterbacks, why don't just draft a quarterback every year in the top couple rounds, just until you figure it out when you're in this position. You've got to take some swings.

Let's just resign Mason Rudolph and trade for this. It's like, this is not going to work, guys. Well, just the fact they keep going back to Mason Rudolph. I mean, it tells you they're just uncomfortable with risk offensively. Well, they tried last year, right? Which was a little out of there. They're like, we'll get these two guys. And it ended and you could tell like that wasn't really our thing.

You know, Russell, big personality, fields, got some limitations. but ideally probably not a starter for us. They didn't like that. And I give them credit for trying what they tried. They punted on Kenny Pickett. And clearly they're like, we're not doing that thing again. Too many people talking about their, but now they're waiting on Aaron Rogers.

I don't know. They're in just a weird space for a franchise that, I mean, what would you say in your lifetime? One of the better run American sports franchises in America? I thought until maybe 12 years ago, I thought you could argue they were the best overall franchise most of my life. I started watching football

1972, but from like 1974, 74, 75, until maybe 10 to 12 years ago, I thought they were in the argument with the Patriots. Patriots had down years, the Brady years, but I mean, they were just like well-run. And now they're, it's, I always find this is fascinating to me. Old, successful people that can't age well.

And it's just really, really weird to me when you, like, when you see Bobby Knight, I'm not going to do the one and done. Why not? Do you just want to win games? Like, I don't get it. Or Belichick, Matt Patricia is the offensive coordinator. Bill, you're smarter than that. What are you doing? Like, it's fascinating to be that all the people in the building in Pittsburgh. And they can't get the offensive line right. They can't get quarterback right. And they're not, I mean, like, Kenny Pickett, I guess was a swing, but it's like, I just, it's not that hard. I think sometimes I underestimate the gap between like Sean McVeigh. I did this the other day. The Steelers are the opposite of the Rams. The Rams spend money on a young, progressive offensive coach. The Steelers on an old defensive coach. One team has made the playoffs like seven of the last eight years.

The Steelers haven't won a playoff game. in like eight years or something. You know, one team spends no money on defense. One leads the league in spending on defense. One never takes a chance on character guys. Like they just, they don't put them on their draft board. One makes a living off that. It's, it's almost if I can't quite figure the Steelers out.

They want character, but nobody's had more divas and high maintenance, offensive guys, than the Steelers. They want to win, but then they don't take care of the number one position. Like, I just, I find them, I feel like there's a messaging issue in the building. And like Omar Khan, my sources don't consider him like a great general manager. Yeah, I know that, what was his name, Colbert, the former GM, I think was really, really, highly thought of in NFL circles by personnel people. I think people would say that they've dropped off, you know, in terms of that. just the group, Con, and his group relative to Colbert,

I would say the other thing is, you know, once the Ravens moved to Baltimore and Ozzie, and DeCosta was with him the whole time, they had, you know, during the 2000, now they had really good teams, but they basically played the Steelers every year. They became their rival. And they copied the way they did things,

like toughness, hardcore guys, playing in any environment, toughest team in the league. And now over the last decade plus, it's like, we do it better than you. So we had a front row seat. It's like you're our main competition in business. We know exactly how you do things.

Yet we're a little more open-minded and progressive to the way that we scout coach, however, and we've now lapped you. Because that's what it feels like the Ravens are running circles around them. And hell, the Ravens can't even get over the hump in the playoffs, but they're in a different universe than the Steelers. And then the Bengals, listen, a lot of people make fun of them, but they've hit on some players over the years and getting Joe Burrow changed that franchise. regardless how weird and rinky dink it can feel sometimes. But I do think the Ravens kind of getting their blueprint and then modernizing it, like the Internet version, has really hurt. If the Ravens were a little bit more of just a regular run-of-the-mill, you know, 10-11 win team,

but they just have become a dominant NFL team, especially with Lamar, it has made the Steelers look a lot worse. I mean, look, anyone could have had Derek Henry, right? They got him for $8 million. Boom, he goes there. He runs for whatever, almost 2,000 yards, and they give him an extension. It's like, God, no-brainer.

It's like, shouldn't the Steelers have been all over a guy like that? I mean, they were kicking Najee Harris to the curb. And I just think that the Steelers are just kind of in this weird spot. They're too well run, and they, you know, Mike Tom is too high level of a guy. They're never going to suck. Like, they're never going to have a season where it's like, oh, this is the year they drafted six.

That's just not going to happen. But drafting 16th to 20th every year is not a great place. to be either. Because they're doing it basically every year for what, a decade plus. They haven't won a playoff game since they beat Kansas City in the second round. I think that was Rathusberger, Antonio Brown, and Levy on Bell. Were their star offensive players? That's a long time ago, Colin. Yeah, well, last 16 years, Ravens, including playoffs, have won the most games in that division.

And that was about, I think Steve Boshadie bought the franchise 20 plus years ago, but it took them a few years to get it right. And to your point, I think they copied the Steelers model a little bit. I mean, in that cold weather part of the country, there are certain absolutes. Like, you have to be able to run the football. You have to play really good defense. You better have good offensive lines. You're not going to be throwing the ball down the field.

In fact, I could argue before Zay Flowers, I didn't think Baltimore drafted wide receivers particularly well. They drafted everything else exceptionally well. The Steelers draft wide receivers exceptionally well, but they've had a lot of misses on the offensive line and quarterbacks. other spaces. So it is a weird franchise. Okay, this is just a little bit of a little bit of schedule talk. And that's good. Enjoy it. Have a good weekend, everybody. See you. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs,

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