The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright on Reese/Clark Fallout, Lamar Market, Bryce Young Debate

Episode Date: April 5, 2023

First, Colin explains why Iowa’s Caitlin Clark and LSU’s Angel Reese don’t need to be protected by the media following their Women’s National Championship Game confrontation. Then, First Things First co-host - and host of the What's Wright? podcast - Nick Wright joins Colin to discuss the fallout of the Reese/Clark trash talk, how the NBA can incentivize teams to stop shutting down stars down the regular season stretch, his biggest concern about likely NBA  #1 pick Victor Wembanyama, if Bryce Young’s size should concern NFL teams in the Draft, which QB needy teams should consider trading for Lamar Jackson, their take on a wild political week that saw former President Trump indicted, and if Andrew Wiggins returning to the Warriors makes them a title contender. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Hi, everybody, and welcome in to the Wednesday morning podcast. We bring Nick Wright on once a month, and he always delivers lifestyle, culture, basketball,

my buddy, just good takes. I want to start with some thoughts on Caitlin Clark, the Iowa basketball star, and Angel Reese, great player for the national champion LSU club. Sometimes social media is truth serum. People show you their lack of discipline by what they post. People show you their politics, their leanings. They show you their temper. I'm always amazed at people who think they're invisible on Twitter.

For the record, folks, we have 30 employees now and growing at the volume. I've literally not hired people because of how they act on social media. Watching the media on this Caitlin Clark Angel Rees situation was really striking. One of the reasons I think women's basketball is so much better today than 20 years ago is because it's feisty and there's a little trash talk and it's a little chippy and there's a little more physicality pushing. and shoving from time to time, that's the ultimate sign of growth because we've had that men's basketball forever.

Women's basketball, more than any sport in this country, has improved over 25 years. More young women are being encouraged to be athletes. It's always been cool, but a lot of people didn't get it and didn't encourage women. When you watch LSU and you watch Iowa, the people that rushed to Caitlin Clark's defense because of some taunting by Angel Reese, timeout. That's called one road trip for Patrick Beverly.

We don't rush to NBA men's defense. It's part of AAU. It's part of college basketball. It's part of now all basketball. Nobody took a swing. Nobody tried to physically intimidate Caitlin Clark. and let's stop there. Do you understand to get to the highest levels of any form of basketball, women's basketball?

Do you understand how tough you have to be, how resilient you have to be? Do you know how competitive Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese are? Since they picked up a basketball, people try to intimidate them, box them out, get chippy. That's called basketball. I watched Larry Bird trash talk and Gary Payton trash talk. If you really respect women, then allow them the same freedoms that we allow men. Verbal sparring is part of the sport. I watched Dr. J. and Larry Bird throw punches at each other.

It didn't end their careers. They were able to overcome it 10 minutes later. Caitlin Clark, when asked about Angel Reese, I'll read you the quote. We're competitive. We show her emotions in different way. She's tremendous. I have nothing but respect for. I love her game.

The way she rebound, scores the ball incredible. I'm a big fan of her. Stop pandering. She's okay. She's tough. She can handle it. Show the same respect you would. A guy playing basketball.

He can handle some trash talk. You know, years ago, I worked with. with somebody named Christine Leahy. She did the Herdline News Update. And she was in her mid-20s. And LeVar Ball came on the show and started, took some verbal shots at her. Didn't try to physically intimidate her, but took some verbal shots at her. And I didn't rush to her defense because she immediately landed two or three of her own verbal shots.

And I didn't want to make her look weak. I thought the ultimate sign of respect to either Jason McIntyre, Christine Leahy, Joy, Taylor is their equals. They can handle some sparring and trash talk. I mean, I have strong opinions about athletes. Can I not handle a strong athlete having an opinion about me? The point is, if you really respect women, then you have to respect them enough to understand they can handle it. Right? They can handle it. Caitlin Clark's fantastic. Angel Reese is fantastic. I don't want to hear about, well, when's the last time that you saw a winning team taunt a losing

player? Oh, I don't know, all throughout the college football season. I mean, are you kidding me in these rivalries? I remember Baker Mayfield grabbing his junk on the sideline. I got guys at the coin toss talking trash in college football. One of the most amazing parts of the women's final four. A little bit of chippiness. A little intimidation. People trying to get into each other's heads. Women's basketball is officially arrived.

They can defend themselves. Caitlin Clark's going to come back. She's going to be an all-American. Iowa will probably be one of the favorites to win the national champion. but to get to the top of even college sports, college baseball, college women's men's basketball, college football, college wrestling, it doesn't matter what it is. Do you know how tough and resilient you have to be as an athlete, a man or a woman? Show the women respect.

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Download the GameTime app last minute ticket deals. Lowest prices guaranteed. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's welcome in Nick Wright. You know him, you love him. First things first, what's right with Nick Wright? So I was saying in my six, seven-minute preamble to you is the ultimate respect to women is they can handle themselves. and that Caitlin Clark is not a lamb to be able to get to the highest level of any Division I sport, baseball, football, hockey, wrestling, women's basketball.

You've been mocked. You've been taunted. You've been boxed out. You've probably taken a punch. These women are feisty and they talk trash. And the ultimate respect isn't rushing to their defense. It's realizing they can handle themselves. She's nobody's underdog, Colin.

She, listen, Angel Reese is awesome. Angel Reese is some of the people commenting like, oh, who is Angel Reese to Trash Talk? She was the fourth leading score. In that game, she also set the all-time record for double doubles in a season, was the first team All-American, was the MVP of the goddamn tournament. So Angel Reese, when they win the championship, is allowed to talk trash if she wants. Now, Caitlin Clark was the best player in the country. And I know for some people, because of Angel Reese's race and size, they looked at her talking trash, than Caitlin Clark talking trash.

It's nonsense. And Caitlin Clark didn't ask for anybody's protection. Caitlin Clark dished it out, knew she could take it, the whole thing. And what I find, so there is the reaction to the trash talk, which I know you talked about, we've talked to it everywhere. To me, there was, there were obviously an obvious massive racial component to who is and who is not allowed to trash talk. But then there is the what could have been absent of the trash talk, the bigger story, which is the success of this tournament.

And can women's basketball at the collegiate level become women's tennis, which is on par, if not at times, exceeded the interest in men's tennis? Because we as a country have shown we will watch. Women's sports, if it, there is, it's not an inherent sexism like we won't watch women's sports. What we need is to feel like we're watching the best product possible. And I feel like in tennis, the men's serves became so powerful that there wasn't serve and volley. Plus, then all of a sudden, Serena comes around and you have a massive American starts like a perfect storm.

It's like it's a better product. It's more entertaining all of it. women's college basketball is a better product than men's college basketball flatly. Because the things you need, which is consistency of roster, continuity, stars are there in the women's college game in a way they're not in the men's game. And I think women's college basketball can have a huge moment here because that LSU team scored 102 points in a regulation college basketball. game. San Diego State wasn't going to score 102 last night if they got a third half by themselves. No disrespect to San Diego State, but I guess that's a little disrespect to them.

There is just, it's a hell of a product. The shot making is awesome. And yes, we understand you're not going to get the same level of athleticism. You get for the men's game. But you can go to the NBA for that. And I like the attitudes. I like the personalities. I like the stories.

I really, my daughter, my youngest daughter, who's of my two daughters, the bigger sports fan, has asked me, you know, why don't I watch more women's sports? I've never had like the greatest answer for her. She's nine. And I was like, we can go to some WMBA games. But the WMBA versus the NBA,

one is just clearly from basketball-wise, a superior product. But the female college games were awesome. And here's the other part of it. I wonder if with NIL, Colin, if there's not way more money playing in college than going to the WMBA. I wonder if for Caitlin Clark, can she not make more money? Like, whatever her sponsors will be, wouldn't they prefer she be staying in college as long as possible? Because those ratings, they're going to get more viewers, more everything than at the WMBA level.

So I think that sport can really have a moment right now. I really do. Yeah. And I think the men's final four, the women blew out ratings, the men's was one of the least watch because you had underdogs and between the transfer portal in men's college basketball and the one in done culture. You can't name any starters. The average college fan this morning couldn't name two players for San Diego State and they were in the title game. So I, and I do think that doesn't, it doesn't come. completely puncture the NBA, but mobility.

Adam Silver's always been more concerned about it than I would. But I think one of the reasons the Warriors continue to get the best TV ratings and the Celtics are right behind them is because it's the same group of core group of guys for like six years. And that really matters. That's why Brooklyn had all these stars and terrible ratings. By the way, the Lakers last three years have had terrible ratings because the roster is constantly in flux.

Well, and the NBA does need to do a better job, in my opinion, of marketing its next generation. Steph's 35, LeBron's 38. You know what I mean? Durant's an old 34 because of the injuries. Like you're going to, you're really living ratings-wise off a group of players who should not still be X.

You know, they're very, the fact that LeBron's going on 20 years of super high level play and relevance, that's borrowed time. And now maybe they're going to to transfer that to Bronte, but that's a hell of a bet they're making. Well, the other thing, what can we take? Sometimes I will see a business out there with the volume we have over 30 employees now, but I'll see a smaller business and I'll say, oh, I like what they're doing. So I think you see this with big companies all the time.

They look and see what young ascending companies do. And what can the NBA take from college sports? Well, the quality isn't close, but the urgency is amazing. And if I was Adam Silver, you cannot have seven game first round series. If you're looking for upsets, which clearly, clearly the urgency and the sudden death nature of college men's basketball, some of these ratings in the early part of this tournament between no-name teams get huge numbers. So I think if you want to pass the baton from the veterans to the kids, you got to have some shorter series where sometimes a young team comes in with Hutzpah and Energy.

And upsets somebody. Memphis and upsets a really good team that now we know over time that young team in the NBA won't win for a series. But I do think the NBA playoffs could use more upsets. Or let me give because the counter to that will always be. how much more, how much benefit are we getting from less inventory of our most valuable time of year, which is postseason games, right? Someone give me an actual answer why of all sports, the NBA, has not gone to drafting your playoff opponent.

You want the regular season to matter. If you are the one seat, if you are Denver, if you have earned. it. Once the field is set, you pick who you play. That would be a massive reward. And if you're the two seed, you get to pick next as opposed to what we're going to have happen, which is now all of a sudden you're going to have, I can't, it's going to be unbelievable to watch in these final 120 hours of the season. The Lakers have been fighting like hell to avoid the play in. And now, honest to God, I believe they might on the final day of the season be the sixth seed and risk falling back into the play-in to avoid moving up to the five where they have to play Phoenix. You know what I mean?

You're going to have the Lakers, Warriors, Clippers in like this staring contest of like who wants to play, like, who wants to guarantee they're not in the play in. but if you do that and the other two teams take the night off, you now all of a sudden, congrats you avoid the play. And here's Kevin and Devin Booker in round one. Let these teams draft their playoff opponent. It would, so let me get in the east, a team that I know you've liked historically, Boston.

Boston has been better than Philly. Boston has not over the course of the year been better than Milwaukee, but they did beat them twice by 40 points. You know what Boston's big reward for their season is going to be? Miami in round one. Congratulations, Boston. You know what I mean? Philly, who's been worse than them,

Philly's going to get a shell of a Brooklyn team. And it's like, okay, Mikhail Bridges is a nice player, but that's fine. That's absurd. It's ridiculous. And that would add intrigue, and it would add import to the regular season. And every first round series

would feel like a grudge match because the team would be like, you picked us? Why'd you pick us? Right. Why didn't you pick? So I wish they would do that. I've encouraged that for all across all sports, but nobody, the leagues don't want to do it. Well, I do think they're going to do a midseason tournament in the NBA.

I think what's happening, analytics, to be honest, do not always help sports. In baseball, it slowed the sport down, right? It was home runs. It was strikeouts. It was like, does anybody hit a single anymore? So they finally got rid of the end. And by the way, more singles, more stolen bases, more plays at the plate, more action. The ratings are up.

The games are better. More of everything. But I do think the NBA, the analytics are telling general managers rest your stars because this sport is so taxing. So in baseball, you go into a town and you hang out for four days. And a third of the team doesn't play. They're in the bullpen. But in basketball. in hockey and especially basketball because you're not on the ice for 45 seconds then off.

A player who's abnormally large anyway, right? Like a seven foot one guy who travels going to be harder for him regardless of the plane. So he's going to play 40 minutes, both ends, burn through 7,000 calories, get on a plane, land in a city at 4 in the morning, go to bed quickly, get up, shoot around. Frankly, have you seen old basketball players? they're all bent over. They all look like hell. So the analytics are telling you play stars less.

So even though this minimum number of games for awards sounds like on its face, it will solve it for a veteran player, he's not going to get a veteran guy. By the way, Yonis, he doesn't care about awards anymore. He wants to be healthy for the Celtics and the playoffs. Yeah, I don't know that there's a solve. It is because it's the constant conflict, between the GM and this cross sports, the GM slash head coach,

whose only incentive and obligation is winning. And ownership in the league who theoretically should, the only incentive should be, we're an entertainment product. How do we maximize our entertainment value? Like the only thing I could compare it to is the schedule. I live in New York City. The Broadway schedule is insane.

You get Mondays off, still do seven shows a week. They're two and a half hour shows, right? And a lot of these, there's a show I went to with my, you know, my daughter is a senior in high school. She's a theater major. It's what she wants to go into. Show called Funny Girl, the Fannie Bryce story. The main character, the star of it now is this girl from Glee, who is legitimately phenomenal. And the moment she signed up to do it, tickets through the roof.

They announced she's not doing Thursdays or whatever, but she's doing every other show they do. My guess is I can't prove this, but she probably would be slightly better if she was only doing three shows a week. But Broadway understands our entire purpose is entertainment. We're not competing. We are here to entertain the audience, therefore make money. So you are out there every single night. Can you imagine if you're not? If Broadway had the same type of thing in the NBA, it's like, well, you know, we've looked at it.

And she's really only going to be able to peak performance on three days a week. And we're not going to tell the audience any idea what three days those are going to be until they show up. You kill them. And so I don't know what this is. I don't know what the solve is. The NBA keeps trying to do it. But I don't think Adam Silver is quite a harsh enough hand to force it because he's in a partnership with the players. But this does go ahead, because I have a different question, but go ahead.

Well, because I don't think there is a solve and that's okay. NASCAR's audience is old. Every sport has a whole and a problem. NASCAR sport is old. How solvable is it? NFL's got a concussion issue. It's grown men tackling each other. It's not going away.

Baseball's got a pace issue and a lack of scarcity. There's a billion games. That's not going away. Hockey relevance. Gretzky helped a little briefly. College basketball, one and done culture. The truth is, the NBA problem, like every sport, cricket had a pace problem. Soccer, there's just so few elite players that if you get one and you face teams that don't have one, you just dominate for a decade.

So I don't feel bad for the NBA because I think you can. mitigate some of the issues, but every sport has an issue. This is really the primary one for the NBA, stars sitting. You won't completely solve it, but I think like concussions, less hitting in practice,

better helmets. It will take out about 30% of it. And for the record, if you give me 30% more stars playing, it won't be on talk shows. It won't be as big one year ago and it was never a topic. That's right. No, that's 100% correct.

All right. I don't know where else you. you want to go. But when you're talking about college basketball and then resting guys, it brought me to something that I mentioned on TV today that I want your thoughts on. All right. So everyone saw the Victor Wimbunyama highlight the 7'5 Alien, did a step back three, missed it, went and got his own done, got his own putback done. I also saw a video of the pregame workout he does for his feet. He does like these foot stretch things to whatever to try to keep his feet healthy. And then I saw this quote from a Western Commerce General Manager

saying, we're all going to feel like idiots for not tanking for this guy. I am quietly very concerned. And my entirety, the entire reason for my concern is literally never have I ever seen someone taller than 7-3 not be ravaged by injuries. Ever. Not once. And this guy is going to be playing on the perimeter on that type of wear and tear. Colin, I don't care how far back we have to go. Ralph Samson, his feet killed him. Rick Smith, Arvita Sabonis, Yow Ming. Sam Bowie. And I don't know if he was seven, that's quite as tall. But yeah, Greg Oden, who wasn't quite as tall.

Durant even had the Jones fracture. And now seems to be breaking. down a little. Porzingus. Porzengis. All of them. Forget the super tall guys. You met Mnute Bowl and some of those guys that dealt with some tragic stuff. I,

everyone is talking that people like he would go number one in the draft if LeBron were in it. Guys. No he would. The thing is, I get it. If you tell me Wimbunyama is going to be healthy for 15 years, yeah, he's one of the three greatest prospects ever. maybe the best prospect ever, I don't know. But I have seen, I am so, when Chet was coming out, I was like,

yeah, the skinniest player I've ever seen. And we got Wilden Brew killed me for it on the show. I was like, skinny's player I've ever seen. He played one summer league game against LeBron. And we've never seen him yet since then. Wimby concerns me. Because when you're so tall, your agent is lying about your height in the other direction, alarm bells go off for me.

Because I don't know, man. I just, what makes him so special is what would terrify me. And here is the reason I was thinking about it. Have the pelicans helped or hurt Zion? I don't know. I know they've been as cautious as possible. He's played 120 games in four years. Maybe you can tell me if they were, you know, more old school with him,

he'd be out of the league by now. Hard time believing it. I think maybe that being so cautious with everything with him has not been the best for him, I can totally see the same thing happening with this kid. He comes into the league, has a little minor thing. They're like, oh, give it six weeks. Like, I don't know, it makes me nervous. It makes me nervous.

Yeah. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Yeah, we just recently came to terms with size matters for quarterbacks. I remember pushing back on Kyler Murray. And like, guys, he's significantly smaller

than Russell Wilson. Than anybody's ever been. And I remember very early, an all pro defensive linemen in the NFL, who I know played him. year one and said, brother, he's not going to be in this league seven years. He does not like to get hit. He goes, I hit him.

He wins. Does that worry you about Bryce? Absolutely. But I have another theory on that. So people were very uncomfortable. I didn't like Baker Mayfield. I said, as a one, he's too small. He's not that.

So we're coming to terms with Drew Brees was the outlier that size matters in quarterbacks. I said the same thing about Chet Holmgren. I said if I had one pick, I wouldn't take him. But Oklahoma City had so many picks of these such a physical unicorn, you owe it to yourself to take it. Take the flyer. I'm fine with it. I just, I don't like most or least biggest or smallest anything basically. Right. Yeah, I like that. And I know I can get burnt on it. But this is, and I'm curious what your theory on Bryce is. Because Bryce is clearly the best on film prospect. It's not even arguable.

But then I'm like, wait, they're saying he's thinner than Kyler. I don't know if I think he might be undraftable for me. Like he's so small. So I that it's too small like the biggest or the smallest just concerns me. I want to see someone else do it first. What's your theory on Bryce? Okay. Okay.

So my theory is you can't treat every investment like a 401K. So a 401k you put money into and never take it out until you retire. But you can also day trade stocks. You can buy stuff and sell it. You can flip houses. There's a lot of equities and there's a lot of investments that aren't built for long term. And those are also excellent investments. So not every quarterback you draft is built for 10 years.

But if Carolina said to themselves, listen, our doctors say you're going to get three really good years out of him. and by year four he'll deteriorate. To stabilize the organization, wouldn't you still take him? Oh, that's interesting. That it's just, okay, that's interesting. Yep. So what you don't want to be in the NFL is Indianapolis,

a wreck. But in that division, in the NFC, Frank Reich's a good coach. You bring him. And by the second year, you draft a quarterback in the sixth round, the third year you draft one in the fourth round, the fourth year you draft one,

in the second. The Patriots every other year drafted a quarterback with Brady. There's an argument to be made. You should draft a quarterback every year anyway. But if you believe Bryce is the best quarterback, and if you just got three years, which for any size is small, I mean, I think two is going into year four. Let's say realistically, Kyler gives you two more years and then retires and goes, I'm done. Well, you had Josh Rosen and everybody was getting fired and Kyler got you to the playoffs. And so it's like Chet Holmgren, if you told me, we're going to get four really good years from him.

40% of the first round of the NBA is a bust. Sure. Okay. So that's interesting. That if it's just you're looking at it as, and three years, I don't know if I'd spent it with just three years, I think that would concern me.

But if you're like, hey, this guy's going to give you his full rookie contract, his fifth year option and one franchise tag, and you're never going to have to give him the math. massive deal. And you're going to instantly be relevant, have the quarterback on the cheap deal. That's something I've never really considered that idea. But that I just, and by the way, and maybe he defies the odds. Maybe he is Drew Brees. And, you know, because he is so accurate

and seems like such a good kid, it just seems like so small in a big man's game. You mentioned to the Colts and you asked me on the show today about Lamar. Would you do? Peter King said that he believes that the Ravens would just give you Lamar straight up for the fourth pick. Would you do that if you were Indy? Just a four pick for Lamar Jackson. The number four overall pick, this year's draft, you give them that and you got to give Lamar a deal. Peter King says he thinks the Ravens would say yes to that. They wouldn't try to match.

They wouldn't. Fourth overall pick, Lamar straight up. If I'm in the idea, I would have. Yes, because. I think in the NFC, he would dominate. In the AFC, he'll make you very viable. And I also think that Indies in a situation now, we're at best, they're going to get the third best quarterback, unless somebody leaps them. Correct.

In a bad quarterback class or Lamar Jackson. And you just, and you can take a deep breath and say, we're off this damn treadmill. So I think the Lamar conversation has been so, I don't know that any conversation has ever frustrated me more. Because it seems like to me, obvious where he is as a player. He is clearly not a top five quarterback in football. Just clearly not. And I understand he wanted unanimous MVP. Get it.

I understand that some of the folks would be like, here are just his passing stats, not his rushing stats. I'm like, honestly, I can give a shit. I watch the games. I know he's not a great passer. I know he's not. Right. I know there are, you know, Mahomes, Burrow, Trevor, Herbert, Allen, those five guys

are better than him. I understand Justin Herbert doesn't. If Justin Herbert were, it's like, hey, you can have him for two first round picks. Somebody would offer him a contract by now. I know this to be true, right? There's those five guys. Right.

I also know that right now, if you're actually ranking quarterbacks going down the list, Dak Prescott's like 10th. And Dak, I think Lamar's better than Dak. You might say Dak's putting in Lamar, whatever it is. At worst, Lamar's the 10th best quarterback. So he's not one of the absolute no-brainers. He's still better than 20 starters. So, like, let's all take a deep breath.

Teams are so desperate for quarterbacks. You give Daniel Jones 40 million a year for four years. So is he perfect? No. Is he hurting himself by not having an agent? I think unquestionably, yes. Is it frustrating that he hasn't, the passing wise, he's actually awesome at some of the really hard stuff. It's the layups that he's not great at, has never gotten great at, and it's frustrating, sure.

but does it still seem baffling to me that a team like Detroit isn't like, hmm, we damn near me the playoffs with Jared Gough. We have extra first round picks. We're in the soft conference in a division that next year, the most established quarterback is going to be Kirk Cousins. Yeah, we'll pay Lamar Jackson and maybe go to the Super Bowl, even though he's not perfect. I do think there's something else.

So we both admit his unorthodox personal representation hurts and that the injuries really hurt. There is a third thing that an executive in the league told me about a year ago is that if you bring him in, you better go find a backup that works for him if he gets hurt. And it's a different offense than your typical offense. So you've got to make some real staff changes. And if he's a franchise guy, you've got to sign, you've got to bring in a whole new group. And it's almost like in our space. There's people that do play by play. And there's people that are analysts.

And then there's guys like you and I that are opinionists and generalists. Well, we don't work doing games or hosting a show, right? You have to bring in people who create topics for you and I. So Lamar is unique and that he's not your classic drop pass. but he's a better thrower than you think. He does have an injury issue. One of them kind of freaky in the pocket. But he's got such a dynamic style of which you should absolutely lean into that there is a,

okay, if we bring him in an indie, okay, Shane Steichen, what do you have to do to your staff to do this? And so now, I'm not saying there aren't a lot of things you can't do with Lamar. You can do with other quarterbacks. But he is such, listen, I talk to Sean Payton about. Russell Wilson when he was not the Broncos coach. And I said, what would you do? And he said, I'd get him back to playing basketball on grass. He goes, Russell's at his best playing basketball on grass. Well, that's not Drew Brees. Right. So you're literally bringing staff and people and

personnel that work with basketball on grass. So Lamar's that to a, I would say, an even hyper version of that. So he's a very, I guess what I'm saying is the downside to you need. is that you have to build people to support unique. Correct. And it's not as easy as conventional. That's why, listen, do I think the league as a whole doesn't want to do guaranteed deals? Obviously. Do I think the owners might be, you know, at the owner's meetings asking around?

You're not going to, you're not doing guaranteed. We're not going down there. You know, the Brown screwed us. We're not going further. Sure. So do I think there is that level of collusion if you, sure. But as I said before, if Trevor Lawrence were done with his contract franchise tagged, and for the whole league, it was like, Trevor was like, hey, I want a fully guaranteed deal

and it's going to cost two first round picks. Five of these teams would have said, I don't care who gets mad at me. I'm doing it. So part of the reason there hasn't been a hot Lamar market is because of the things that you're talking about. There are some limitations, and it is not simple. but there is still a massive instant upside, particularly for an NFC team, where going into next year, the best quarterback in the conference, I think Jalen Hertz has earned that, but he's only shown

to us for one year. And then after that, it's Kurt and not sorry, it's Stafford coming off an injury or DAC or whomever. We have no idea. Right. And so that part of it is, it is, and I, my theory on. that is, I think most of these teams are waiting until after the draft because if we sign Lamar, we're going to be better. So our pick in the future years will be worse than the

pick this year. So might as well, spend our, you know, use our pick this year. And then the two first round picks we'd have to give up are going to be in the 20s or whatever it is. I also think when I saw the report that the Patriots were shopping Mac Jones, that I'd keep an eye on Belichick and Lamar in that regard. I'm glad you brought that up. So it's interesting. And I'm going to use our business again as a comp. So you were given a shot at FS1 and you have succeeded.

But it does matter that you've had success as your first big syndicated cable opportunity. If you would have failed, there's a chance you would have never gotten a second opportunity. Yeah, for sure. Right. Same for me at ESPN Radio. If I tank, I'm my career's. I go back to doing local radio. There's a big gap between local and where I've ascended to.

So Mac Jones, I defend, I disagree with Eric Mangini on this. So Belichick is still pissed off that Mac Jones sought help outside of the building last year when they gave him Joe Judge as a quarterback coach and Matt Patricia as a coordinator. And I thought, had I gone to ESPN? Because in the NFL, Drew Breeze is an outlier. You bomb in the first one, star quarterback. you don't get a second chance mostly. Right.

So, and this isn't Deshawn Watson who did star in Houston had personal issues. But we knew he could play. So had I gone to ESPN replacing Tony Cornizer? And they would have given me a sales guy to help with content, not taking it seriously. And I bitch to my boss and he wouldn't listen. My only out would have been to leak it to the press what a shit show management was. So I told Manjini, I understand there's this sense that, well, Mac Jones, he's not allowed at this point in his career. And my takeaway is time out, time out, time out.

His career is three years. You F it up. He's going to be viewed as insignificant and people will never give him a franchise job again. So they literally, Belichick takes this big wild, zany swing. Max's like, the hell are you doing? I'm a quarterback. Nobody else has to deal with this and he starts leaking shit, right? He's losing the locker room.

So the Matt Jones situation is interesting is that I kind of, I thought of my ESPN days. I thought, the hell do you do if this iconic coach is effing you? Yeah, okay. So I hear you. Let me give the counterpoint to that because you're right that if you had failed at ESPN, your career goes differently or whatever. But I also know enough about the business. know enough of where you were when you got that job, you were not quite Mac Jones.

You were closer at that point to Joe Burrow. You were going to get a huge opportunity somewhere and had massive success in a bunch of places. Listen, I said for, I'm not trying to be humble here because I said for years before you knew me that I was the second best radio guy in the country. I was 27 years old saying it, saying second only to you. So I always believed I was extraordinary. But I was just kind of doing okay ratings-wise in Houston when I got the shot at FS1. I was not the first overall pick, just like Mac wasn't. And so if you are Bill Belichick in this example, and I am Mack Jones,

and you say, I, Colin Coward, successful for 20 years, I want you to come work with me. Trust me, Nick. I know it might not make a lot of sense to you, but I need you to follow this. And my first year doing it, I overachieved. And my second year, you're like, I want to try some new things. And I'm out there trademarking my name, doing the gritty after segments. and I'm like, man, fuck this old man. He doesn't know anything.

I got my career to think about. You might be like, your career exists because of me, asshole. What do you do it? And when I put you on the bench and I had someone else host and Zappy, all of our ratings went up. So maybe you need to go work somewhere else and see how that works for you. So I understand that Mac maybe was frustrated. I also understand Belichick may be thinking, buddy, you can't throw the ball 35 yards in the air.

I can't trust you to throw a Hail Mary. So did I maybe make a mistake with having the special teams coach and the astrophysicist be your offensive coordinator? Sure. Do I need you constantly showing up my coaches, throwing things, yelling at people when you have not been part of the solution? and the thing that really hurts Mac, and there's the point I keep making on the show, the Patriots had two games last year where they scored 28 points. They were the two Bailey Zappie starts.

It's not like those games. Josh McDaniels came back for a cameo appearance. It was the same staff as the same everything. And so I also think Belichick knows, well, he should know, even if Mac reaches his full potential, will it be a day in his life, Mac Jones is better than. Mahomes, Alan, Burrow, Herbert, Lamar if he stays, Trevor Lawrence.

Now we're at six in his conference. Deshawn, if Deshawn ever comes back, who knows, you know, comes back to where he was. You know, there's Russell Wilson. There's Aaron Rogers. There's Tua. Guys who all, they're upside that they have shown in their careers. There is a possibility.

his best case scenario is eighth best quarterback in his own conference. I'd be looking for an upgrade. You know what I mean? If I were Bill and maybe Mac wants it. I don't think Mac is a special talent. All right. So I could be wrong on that. I just,

I've never watched him. I've been like, wow, that guy's got it. I've never thought that. That was good pushback. You probably won that one. Well,

that's just because I called you Belichick and I was Mac Jones in that scenario. that's easy to win the debate. I just play to people's ego. Never lose them. So you have been, by the way, you're in New York City. I don't know if you could hear the pro-Trump. Can I tell you something interesting real quick about that? New York is fascinating in this regard.

So I didn't live here. When was the Super Bowl here? A decade ago? I don't know. I was here for the game, but I didn't live here, obviously. I was doing local radio. Houston. And we came and did the Super Bowl. And every, all the New Yorkers, now maybe that's because the actual games in Jersey. I don't know. That's what I didn't know. But they were like,

yeah, you can't tell the games going on. It doesn't. It's not Super Bowl week. It's just a week in New York City. Man, when I tell you that every part of today in New York City felt like every other day I've been in New York City. Now, I wasn't, I'm sure, At the courthouse, it felt like a big thing. But, and then the surrounding few block area. But there is a weird part. And it kind of today to me, and I'm not a New Yorker. I mean, I've lived here six and a half years now, but it's not where I'm from.

You know, I'm from Kansas City. That it did feel kind of cool that you're in a city that has so much going on with so many people. that an unprecedented historic political criminal event thing is happening 30 blocks a 12 minute bike ride from where I was

and there was no sign of it there was you know what I mean there was there was nothing New York's a weird place like that like that just the city just keeps moving no matter what's going on anywhere else in the city when you're a city the size of New York

in L.A. The only thing people generally suffer from simultaneously is horrific weather. Yeah. We were, we were all in L.A. going, okay, it's 28 straight days of rain. Where's the art?

It's insane, right? Like, and New York's had, you know, like blizzards and that kind of stuff. No, the Trump stuff is,

you know, I saw 60 minutes did an interview, which, by the way, they've interviewed terrorists. So I would not schedule, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green.

Taylor Green. The MTG. I would not have. But they've interviewed terrorists. So it's sometimes you have to shine the light on ignorance. But my takeaway is the ratings were down like 35%. So 60 Minutes took a controversial stand and it backfired. And the truth is she's not interesting.

I mean, for 60 minutes to lose 30% of their audience is that even though you could take a very popular polarizing figure like Tucker Carlson and he may win cable. If you introduced him at Yankee Stadium, he would be booed out of the stadium. Yeah, of course. Is that Twitter is not real life. Social media is not. And either is cable television. Is that what creates clicks?

Most people don't want to watch wildly polarizing figures and are not rooting for him. And Trump, if you're, You're still clinging to Trump. Democrats aren't. Statistically, independents aren't, moderates aren't. And a lot of Republicans aren't. But if you go to Twitter, you think, oh, he's been reborn. The Biden team is praying he's who they face.

See, so it's, so this is a fascinating political thing. And this is where I think, and this is where maybe I'm glad I'm not in this business. Because sometimes I feel like I'd be good in politics, want to run. for office. My wife tells me I'm not allowed to run for office. I also feel then sometimes I'm like, I'm so glad I'm not involved in it. But it is a tough line to walk from some of the folks. So the Lincoln Project, for example, has gotten a lot of, I think, deserved criticism lately for trying to walk these two lines simultaneously. Trump is, a unique threat to American democracy, our way of life, unique in a way no politician we've

ever had, has ever been. Walking that line and also pretty clearly walking that line, God, we hope he gets the nomination because he'll be easier to beat. Like, well, hold on. Like, wait, wait a minute. Just wait a second here because I might also think he would be easier to beat than Desantis. just now, the more stories I read about how DeSantis eats chocolate pudding and treats people, maybe he's not ready for the national stage either.

I'm not certain. But you can't, I don't think you can say, you can simultaneously say this one guy is going to wreck the country forever. Also, we want him to come as close as he can to the presidency, so the guy we want to win wins. That strikes me as a little contradictory. in certain ways. Can I say something about the 60 Minutes thing? So this was where I thought the preemptive criticism was insane and then despite being insane ended up being correct.

I thought the same thing you thought when they were like, we're interviewing Marjorie Taylor Green. And everyone's like, how could you give her a platform? How dare you? I thought the same thing. I'm like, didn't Mike Wallace talk to the Ayatola? What, didn't I see that thing? I was sitting there.

I'm like, and isn't that? that considered like the greatest like one of the greatest television journalism moments ever i'm so i'm thinking i'm like everybody calmed down and before you criticizing something before you see it the idea of great journalism is shining a light you know what i mean like i would i there's a lot of horrible figures that i would really like to see an interview with assuming we are it is going to be done in my eyes properly And then this lady said, you know, she's asked, you know, why do you call Democrats pedophiles? And she's like, well, essentially, because they are.

And the response is, wow. And then they move on. And I'm like, oh, the critics were right. You totally, you're like, what are you doing? Like, if you're going to do it, if you're going to do one of these interviews with someone. And again, this is not, I know you have a ton of, a ton of yours of this, of all. political stripes. So I am, this is not an attack on conservatives. It is an attack on Marjorie Taylor Green. If you think Marjorie Taylor Green should be the next vice president of the United States,

you're not going to like me because I think you're fucking crazy. So like that, if you're going to interview someone in of that extreme, you have to be ready for it to be confrontational enough that they leave, that they're like, you know, angry, pissed off and walk out. It can't be that at the end of it, you like smile and shake hands. In my, you know what I mean? In my opinion. And if you go to the other side of it, if there was a Democratic politician who had raised a significant prominence as she has, whose their platform was, if you have over $200 million

in the bank, we should come to your house and burn you. That you know what? That person, we should, you should treat like a lunatic and you should excoriate. but it doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to them. So I was disappointed because I thought everyone criticizing the fact that they were doing the interview was wrong. But then the interview ended up, they didn't, I didn't think they did a great job with it. But I don't know. Yeah, no, 60 Minutes had terrorists on.

So my take is Leslie Stahl probably wasn't the person that should have been assigned to the story. Correct. That's how I feel. Having seen it, I didn't say. think that beforehand but having seen it yeah i feel like some you need sometimes you need confrontational journalists yes and something like that the you but there should i don't think it should just be we'll never talk to this person and pretend it's one thing to be like we don't want to give a platform to someone who doesn't have one you know what i mean like some uh some right white supremacist twitter troll

yeah why give them a platform this person yes is a prominent member of the United States Congress. Right. They have a platform. They're ignoring them is not going to make them go away. Very good, Nick Wright. That was, boy, that was 50 minutes of fun. I have some questions here.

There's no need. This was better. You want to ask them? Okay. No. All right. By the way, just real quick, so we don't have to end on politics? Just three minutes here before I, right now this moment.

Do you have a lien headed into the NBA playoffs? I'm going to say Boston matches up with Milwaukee, but somehow I think when given equal rest, I don't think the last game Celtics bucks is fair. They'd come off a wild shootout. Drew Holiday went from 51 points to six. I'll say Milwaukee and seven over Boston gets to the NBA finals. Wiggins is in shape, but he's not in game shape. Sacramento is actually a really, good first round matchup for them because they know Mike Brown's tendency is the coach. Their deep at guard can throw a lot at Deeran Fox.

No experience against the most experienced playoff team. So I do think, and the travel for an old team like the Warriors, the travel's a bus ride. There's some, there's some unique. That's what Draymond said. Draymond said he likes that matchup because of the travel. Yeah. So it's unique.

If they get Sacramento, And Wiggins gives you 16 and Kaminga gives you another 20. I think they escape that. Phoenix in the first round and Wiggins is just not ready to play 28 minutes. I don't think they can do it. Because as Steve Kerr said Wiggins is in shape, but he's not in game shape. And by the way, big difference. Big difference between game shape and NBA playoff second round game shape.

So I think if they get Sacramento and Wiggins can kind of play his way into. game shape for about a 10-day stretch. And then the second round, then I think they would be ready. They're so deep at guard. Second round, be Memphis. Yes. And that would be a blood war. Yeah.

And also, I don't think Phoenix, again, Chris Paul is on the precipice of kind of going off that cliff. I mean, you've got Peyton, Devengenzo, Clay, Pool, Steph. It is the deepest guard group. I think in a, I don't remember a guard group. Now, they have no front court scoring without Wiggins. but I think they're built to really beat Sacramento. I don't know if Draymond's game works against Yokic.

It kind of doesn't, right? He's a little flummox by him. So I guess my thing is there's a way for the Warriors to get there, but it has to be specific teams. The Clippers, but maybe with Paul George, not at 100%. Chris Paul struggles in a series Phoenix. But I think if Boston or Milwaukee gets to the final, they'll beat probably... They'll be the champion.

And it'll probably be Denver. Okay. I don't, listen, I got to see the man. I would be very surprised if Denver gets passed round two. Very surprised. And listen, the Warriors, Lakers, or Clippers could be the eight seat. Any one of them. And any one of them could bounce them Denver in round one.

my son on podcast today said to me, would the Warriors winning be the worst thing for your career, Nick's career, because I've written them off again. And I said, absolutely not. And this is what I want you to take on. Then we can go. I said, I think the worst thing for my career would actually be the Lakers winning.

And he couldn't understand why. And I said, I think if we're talking long, like what is long term the best for me, I think LeBron becoming, I think it becoming the popular opinion, the majority opinion that LeBron's the greatest player ever is actually bad for me. I think that if that debate, if it's everyone's like, it's like, it'll be like two days of like, wow, Nick was right. Good for him. and then on to the next thing.

Like it's in my interest for the LeBron Jordan debate to stretch on as long as possible. And LeBron winning the championship in the finals MVP this year, at least moves that to a coin flip in the eyes of most people. And it really changes the math on that in a way that that's what's interesting. If the Lakers were to win the title this year, then anyone that says I'm not just counting the race, and the LeBron Jordan thing is not only just counting the rings, but the ring count would now just be one one ahead.

Because every other thing, it would be like, okay, who played longer, who's more, all these other things. So while it would feel great in the moment, I actually think long term was, it would be, it would not be, because that is the opinion people still to this day on the street. The number one thing people say to me is, do you really believe LeBron's better than Jordan? And if everyone believes LeBron's better than Jordan, I don't know how much that hurts me. I'm not sure.

You disappear into the broadcasting ether. It's like, oh, Nick, Nick's, oh, the guy who agrees with everyone on the homes and everyone on LeBron, good for him. That was my thing. All right, I love you, college. See you, buddy. The volume.

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