The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright on Rodgers Destinations, Media/Broadcasting, LeBron/Brady Similarities

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

First (3:00), Colin explains why CBS reportedly needed an ‘intervention’ with Tony Romo due to his lack of preparedness, and what Tom Brady and LeBron have in common. Then, First Things First co-host - and host of the What's Wright? podcast - Nick Wright joins Colin to discuss why Andy Reid continues ascending when Bill Belichick is declining (15:00), why Nick was cut from the Syracuse college radio station play-by-play team (21:00), how they both adapted as sports opinion broadcasting evolved (24:00), what separates Patrick Mahomes from all other NFL QB's (30:00), where Aaron Rodgers ends up next season if the Packers move on (37:00), what's behind the imbalance of elite QB's over the NFC (43:00), and why the public seems so nonplussed over LeBron breaking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s all-time scoring record (47:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. The volume. It's the Colin Coward podcast presented by Fandul. Super Bowl's here. No better place to get in on the action than Fandul. Awesome exclusive Super Bowl offers for both new and existing users.

FanDuel app is safe. You get paid fast. A lot of ways to play. The spread, the money line, team totals, players, props. A lot of stuff. Over unders. Jump into the action. Same game parlays are my favorite. Just use the promo code Colin and download the Fandual app today. Start making every moment more during Super Bowl 57. Hi, everybody and welcome to our Friday morning podcast. Nick Wright, we bring on Nick about once a month and it's always as funny and smart of 30 minutes as we have. I thought I'd rant for about 10 minutes on something that I normally wouldn't waste time on for radio or FS1. But, you know, this is why I have this podcast company. So I saw this story today and it's a story that's been simmering and been discussed a lot in the last two weeks on the interweb.

And it doesn't really mean anything because Tony Romo makes $17 million a year guaranteed. But Andrew Marshan on his podcast, a New York Post radio TV critic, media critic, had said that CBS was getting concerned about Tony Romo's sort of unconventional style, undisciplined style. And there's been slippage with Tony Romo. My takeaway was for no other reason than, because I don't talk a lot of media, but I've been doing this for 30 years. and I thought, this is an interesting thing, I think, for the audience.

It's kind of instructive. So when you get out of the NFL or NBA or any sport, but let's talk NFL and Tony Romo, who I think does a fine job, I've never already bought into the hype. I thought predicting plays was kind of silly and overrated. It doesn't mean anything. The media freaked out. I don't care. That's not why I watch you to predict plays.

I look for insight that I wouldn't get. Interviews, I wouldn't get information I wouldn't get elsewhere. So, and that's why I think Greg Olson, by the way, is crushing at Fox. So when you first get out of the league, your first year or two, you're generally the most familiar with the league. But the NFL, two things are happening. Number one, there's younger general managers in the NFL. And they are trading players without a concern.

And if you look at the average NFL career, which is about four years. years, the league turns over about every three to four years. So a guy like Romo can come out of football, have a real understanding of the personnel, the rosters, the coordinators, and then all a sudden some of those coordinators leave, go to different places, go to college football, the rosters turn over three or four years later, and you really have to do your homework. And the knock on Romo, and I'll get to this more in a second, is that he doesn't really put the time in. So networks get really, really frustrated when they pay you a fortune, they put you on their number one event and you're not prepared. So Romo makes $17 million a year.

That's been reported. And if you consider that Jim Nance talks for more than half of the broadcast, sideline reports, commercials, the game itself, we're almost probably talking for 25 minutes. Once a week, they want you to be really, really dialed in for that 25 minutes. I'm on the air 15 hours a week, ad-libbing with no game, just talking. You're going to make mistakes. Charles Barkley, by the way, doesn't follow half the league. When the Lakers made a acquisition or a trade recently for a wing from the Wizards, Shaq had never heard of

him. He covers the NBA. So Shaq, Barclay, television's entertainment. Harry Carey was a legend. He was drunk on the air at various times. But football is different. You get 20 million viewers. It really is the most important broadcast singular three and a half hours weekly for networks. And if they're paying you $17 million and you're talking about 20 minutes a week, they want you to be dialed in. I always had this theory that, and I used this for years, when I would interview people and I was going to hire them, if I had lunch or coffee with them, I always asked them if they loved golf. Oh, I love golf. Do you love golf? And if they said yes, I wouldn't hire them. Because I always had this theory that as guys age, many of them get addicted to golf. They're on PGATour.com. They're putting in

the backyard. They're thinking about it at work. They're scheduling a trip to Scotland. And they they lose sight of their other job. Romo wants to be on the tour. He literally wants to be on the tour. I mean, what's the first thing Aaron Rogers does in the offseason? He goes in golfs. He loves it. Both, by the way, great golfers, especially Romo. But I've always felt like Tony Romo is one of those guys, and we all have somebody in our social circle like this. They got the golf bug. He's had it for 15 years. Tony wants to be on the PGA tour, but he likes the paycheck of CBS. And I don't think he does a bad job. I think he's fine. I think initially Romo was overvalued with predicting plays.

That's not why, you know, I mean, if you did it once in a while, it'd be great, but that's not why I'm watching you. But when you're only talking about 20 minutes a week on the biggest broadcast for a network where they pay billions of dollars annually, they want you to be dialed in. And I'm never going to criticize somebody because they slip a word up or, you know, mispronounce a name. live TV is really easy for people who've never done it. Romo and Jim Nance have producers in their ears and directors in their ears and they've got

action and they've got ads to read. It's not easy. But when I listen to Greg Olson, he sounds like he's been studying for that three hours for six days. Romo sounds like sometimes and he's entertaining. He's winging it. And again, I think Barclay and Shaq wing it. But the NFL is different.

And people love Barclay and Shaq. But it's the NBA. There's 82 games. It just doesn't matter. They're on the air for hours every week. Nobody's losing any sleep if they don't know something. I mean, again, they make fun of Barclay not knowing players in the NBA. But those NFL windows, man, those analyst jobs, those networks don't want to pay those guys $17 million a year.

So they sit there with a microscope and, you make a mistake or they think you're not putting in the work, they're going to leak stuff. This stuff gets out, by the way, Marshand said CBS attempted an intervention. That only gets out because CBS wants it out. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Romo's agent calls CBS and asks for CBS to release a statement denying the report. Wouldn't shock me. Before I get to Nick right, because we'll debate this story,

Nick has a belief that when LeBron James breaks Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's all-time NBA scoring record, that we really aren't giving it it's just due, that we're not giving it the momentous appreciation that it deserves. And I think it's not because we don't respect LeBron James. I've felt this with Brady and LeBron the last several years. I believe they've been so great for so long, there is fatigue. And part of Michael Jordan's popularity is that he left the sport and returned. So his career had multiple stories. College, Michael.

Early can't beat the Piston Celtics, Michael. Gets Pippin becomes the king. Baseball. Returns, loses to Orlando, eventually wins three more. Then breaks up, see ya, wizards. The book had multiple chapters. LeBron didn't have a college career. LeBron was great very quickly.

LeBron changed a couple teams, but he's been the best player arguably for 15 years in the league. There isn't this arc. These disappearances, baseball, return, different story arc in Chicago, battling constantly with his GM. Basically, LeBron's been great for 15 years. He's changed teams, but finals, finals, finals, finals, finals, finals, once he started getting to him, he went back to him for almost a decade straight.

And so there hasn't been a lot of swings to LeBron's career. Great early, great middle with titles, still great with one title with the dysfunctional Lakers. And so, and I felt this with Brady. Brady was great early. There was a gap when he didn't win championships. He was still great. And then he was great late in New England. And it was really great in Tampa.

And then he retires. Where are the swings, the story arcs? Brett Fav was problem early. Then he was great. Pushed out by Aaron. Goes to the Jets. Goes to the Vikings. You know, there's a lot of arcs.

There's a lot of different storylines. I think LeBron and Brady were so great early and so great often. The news cycle, we're always looking for the new thing, the exciting thing, the controversial thing. It's not intentional. It's the reality of, John, Morant, Zion Williamson, Josh Allen, it's new. Everybody likes new, the new restaurant in town, the new club. And I think when you're great early, great in the middle, great at the end, I mean, Tom Brady set two NFL records at 45 years old, past attempts and past completions. Is that, you know, it's like when Martin Scoressezi has a new movie, he was great early, he was great with Goodfellas.

He was great with the Irishman. Everything's great. It's like Spielberg. When wasn't he great? Everything he puts out is phenomenal. So we don't talk about him as much. Doesn't mean I don't think Spielberg is one of the most remarkable creative geniuses in the history of Hollywood. But when Quentin Tarantino came out, it was like he got 10 times to press.

He was new. He was unique, Pulp Fiction. Who is this guy? So not that anybody's a very very important. victim Brady LeBron Spielberg of their success, but the media gets bored, and I'm guilty of it too. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

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Visit 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. When I started in this business, opinion was rare. When I first started in this business, there was no national sports talk radio. Rome was the first to make it, and then now it's exploded. Opinion now dominates cable TV. Opinion is where the money is. I was a local sportscaster. And I had a fine career as a local sportscaster.

But when opinion became more influential driving revenue and ratings, my career exploded. I didn't get more talented. I got more opportunities. So Andy Reid entered this league when you could go. grab his receivers. His receivers could be crushed over the middle of the field. You could drive his quarterbacks into the turf. They were always hurt. And then it changed. Then the league, due to safety CTE safety regulations has now given all the rules, not to Belichick side, to Andy's side. And that Andy was always, always as good or better than Belichick.

But his industry was built against him. And now finally, there's even footing or advantage Andy. And he is separating from Belichick. Well, listen, I do think that where I'll give Belichick credit is, I do think he has a better grasp on the coaching minutiae that drives me nuts, the clock management, the challenge stuff in a way that Andy still struggles with at times. But holistically, I think it's 100% correct. And I had, on Thursday, I had Mahomes on the TV show. And I kept every time I talked about the chiefs being disrespected, the chief Super Bowl window, any of these things.

Now, and listen, he's a brand and he knows, you know, how to handle himself. his love for Andy Reid popped off the screen. He said when I asked him, did it seem like the national media was ready to turn the page from the chiefs and love the bills or the Bengals or the Chargers prematurely? What he said was, I think as long as we have Andy Reid, we should be the favorites like that. And so he, that relationship there, Andy's, by the way,

not a young man anymore. Right. And no one, our mutual. friend Danny Parkins made this point. I think it was smart. He said no one is discussing. Is Andy Reed retiring if they win this Super Bowl? He's obviously dealt with personal tragedy. He's done it. He's a Hall of Fame or all these things. And what Danny's point was is, and it's because everyone's like, why would he retire? He is Patrick Mahomes. They're going to continue to dominate. He can climb. He's three wins away, Colin, from being fourth all time in

regular season wins. He's already now second all time in playoff wins. He's going to have a claim as the second greatest coach of this era of football. I think he already has that claim. And I think your point is, what if the chiefs win three of the next five and then he walks out the door, can you make the case? He's the best. Like, it's going to be interesting. It's at least going to be on the board. If he ends with four and Belichick has six, but especially if the Patriots never pop back up. Because I know what people, people can say, well, Andy Edma Holmes. Yes, but Andy made five conference championship games in Philadelphia without a Hall of Fame quarterback. With a good quarterback. Without an accurate quarterback. Correct. Yeah. I mean, make

McNabb was not a bad quarterback, but he was not a Hall of Fame level player. And he made five NFC championship games there. Might have been six. I think it's five. But it is interesting is that sometimes cultures change and opportunities present themselves. And people don't suddenly just get talented at 50. Let's be honest, you flourish in the opinion space. You could, you probably would.

wouldn't be as effective as a local sports anchor or a. I got caught from the Syracuse College radio station trying to do play by play. Because I couldn't, at W.A.R, before you can even try to do play by play, you have to do a 90 second sports update. Like, you know, they used to do on local radio stations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Colin, I came in twice a week, 90 minutes each time for three semesters, a year and a half, trying to get cleared to do 90 second sports updates at a college radio station. And then, God love him, the guy who's now the voice of the Las Vegas Raiders, Jason Horowitz, had to call me and was like, buddy, you're a second semester sophomore and you're not even to the first step.

we we got to you got to go you're not i got cut from my college radio station were you crushed oh i was i mean it's the whole reason i went there it's the whole reason i went there but i was fortunate in that i was already working on the talk show staff and i then just and i was kind of realizing like man i thought i wanted to do well growing up i thought i wanted to do play by play but what i wanted to do was color commentary i would watch the nba on nbc with with Costis and Walton and Steve Snapper Jones. And what I wanted to do was the color. But I didn't realize you can't do that unless you're a former player or former coach.

They're not hiring me to do color commentary. But then, you know, they did hire Dennis Miller briefly. Like they hired Hornheiser. So I was like, oh, maybe at some point. So no, I was, I was crushed. But it, I didn't, it made me fully pivot to talk show. And, you know, a little humble brag here. now at WAR, the talk show studio is named after me and my pictures on the wall.

I'm a Hall of Famer there. That's true story. Marv Albert, Bob Costas, Nick Wright are the three studios there. That's true. And so, but the point is, I'm not a great broadcaster. I have a, like a traditional broadcaster, you know what I mean? I can't read off a teleprompter. I'm not good at, like I have a nasal, but there is a specific thing I can do.

which is confidently argue, whether it's one-on-one with my wife or in front of a million people. Well, also, you're entertaining. In my preamble, I talked about this. Charles Barkley doesn't watch the league he broadcasts. He literally doesn't know 90% of the players. He's entertaining.

Nobody cares. He's wildly entertaining. The audience, they don't care. Nobody cares. It's the entertainment business that we're in. and you get extra credit for being right and smart and all these things. But what a lot of, I think, broadcasters don't understand is this. The perfect storm is entertaining, smart, funny, correct analysis, right?

That's like if you could check every box, that would be it. You can get away with, you can even thrive if you're with your picks always, being wrong with your analysis, always being off, as long as you're entertaining and captivating. If you, you could be right on every prediction, know the name of every player, and there's a few broadcasters, you and I both know we don't have name names that are like this, that are buttoned up on everything. And they're boring. But if you're, if you're boring and don't captivate the audience, you're drawn dead.

Yeah. You're just flatly drawn dead. Years ago, there was a guy named Pete Genesini at ESPN. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Really nice guy. And when I got to ESPN, they didn't, they weren't doing radio very well. And they brought in a guy named Bruce Gilbert to kind of fix Mike and Mike.

There was a big vote, whether to keep him or not when I first got there. And it was like nine people voted five to four. Keep them. Wow. So Bruce Gilbert came in to fix them and hire somebody to replace. Horanizer, and that was the guy. And Pete's a really good guy and real smart guy. But we had a discussion one time. And he said, the number one thing at ESPN is to be informative. And I said, Pete, it's number two. I said, I've watched you either demote or get rid of really informative people. This company has never gotten rid of somebody that's funny on the air and entertaining. Ever. Ever. They may leave you. You don't get rid of them. I've watched you not promote people who are informative. I said, we radio, TV is the entertainment business.

Remember when Barbara Walters was a journalist? And she was doing 20-20 and she was doing sit-down cushy interviews with Johnny Carson and Steven Spielberg. That was the entertainment division. It was the highest rated thing she did. That's why Barbara Walters made a fortune, not because of her journalism. Because she would do these sit-down interviews that got massive ratings. And they were, that was part of the entertainment budget.

And so when I had this inter, this discussion with Pete, who again, this is not a criticism. And I just said, Pete, I'm watching what the company does. You promote really entertaining people. The messaging is be entertaining. Well, listen, and for me, that was, listen, that took me a long time to grasp on television. television because I'd figured out radio. I'd figured out how to do like the radio show exactly the way I needed to. And then when I got on TV, I think the first year maybe, I thought the job was to always have all the answers to have my, you know what I mean, to have the facts exactly right, to have to

never be wrong, you know what I mean, to always. And what? What? I've now done the show five and a half years. By a country mile, the most successful version of the show I've ever done is the one I'm doing right now, this moment with Wilds and Bruce Ard. It's the funniest. It's the funniest. And that's why. Now, I still, it's not like I have forgotten that info. I still have the info available to me, but I am not out there.

I used to approach the TV show with the perspective of, I have to prove how smart I am to the audience. every single day. And now I approach it as our entire goal is to put on a show that people smile while they're watching. You know what I mean? That people smile while they're watching and have a good time and that has enough meat to it to where it's not all empty calories. There's got to be the information. There's got to be the analysis. But there's also got to be a lot of bells and whistles and funny stuff and you know what I mean? Guys messing with each other. And that's what works. And you know what I mean? That took me a while to figure out because people, you know, when I first started,

they would say to me, the best version of you is when you're on with Colin. They're like, can you try to be more of that on first things first? And I think part of it, I was like, well, I get up for first things first at 3.30 in a moment. So I don't know. I'm not certain. But the other thing was, especially early in our relationship, and I still do it,

but especially early in our relationship, I was really, really trying to impress you. And I wanted to make you laugh. Like every time I came on, I was like, it's successful if I make Colin laugh. And I didn't.

I was too stupid to fucking realize I should just be trying to make the audience laugh too. Right. And I have to get out there and like, tell jokes, but the same, you know, and so the, but that was the best version of me at the time was because I wasn't trying. I felt like you knew I was smart. So I wasn't trying to prove it to you.

Right. So you know what I mean? So I could just kind of be the best version of myself. And that's what works. That's what works in this business. You go across the networks. I'll give credit to the other network, even though this show happens to be up against mine at one point.

A show that I think really works on the other network is NFL live. because those people like each other and they're fun together and they bust each other's chops and they have real info you know what i mean like that show whenever i i can't watch it because it's on the same time but the clips i'm like oh they're fun they're funny that works yeah that always will work people that are smart that know what they're talking about will always work well yeah and i don't watch that show but i know the people on it and they're likable and they're fun and um this this mug is from w a rar the radio station that cut me. That's so fun. They sent it to me. Hey, listen, you're fired. Here's a mug. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. So people think from time to time I don't like certain people. I don't like Russell Westbrook's half court game. He's probably a wonderful guy. It drives me crazy. I don't like the neediness of Aaron Rogers. I think he's a smart guy and a wonderful quarterback.

But I do think about it that if I ran into Aaron or Russell, they wouldn't like me, and I totally get that. Andy Dalton once ran into me, and I called him the beige water pistol for a decade. And he was really, really sweet. But Rogers is a fascinating person because he really does project a lot. He had another one this week. when he said, you know, apparently they're doing discussions. You know, I'm not involved, which is interesting. And I thought, it's interesting.

Aaron, you're so smart, but you lack a basic self-awareness that you are projecting constantly, passive-aggressively. And it's why, you know, I've said this about Aaron. We give too much credit to talent. what really separates Mahomes is his self-awareness. He's so effing good at the podium. He is such a good teammate. He almost never, ever compliments himself.

He goes, the talent thing, I think that Mahomes is gifted. But I think when I talked to Sean Payton, I went to dinner with him, spent four hours with him. Sean Payton told me that they flew in to Lubbock or whatever Godforsaken town he played college football in. Yeah, they wanted to draft him. But go ahead. After the workout, they brought in information they thought would overwhelm him and would take three days. Within two hours, he had digested it and was vomiting it out to them. He said it's the smartest player I'd ever interviewed.

We got on a plane. We told nobody we were there. And Sean said, it was the greatest quarterback I'd ever worked out or gone to a whiteboard. And that where Mahomes is underrated, his ability to consume information, see things, and let go with the ball instinctively is the greatest I've ever seen. I think Josh Allen has a stronger arm. I think Lamar is faster. I think Kyler Murray is almost more elusive. I think above the shoulders, Mahomes is almost a performance artist.

He's he's prince. He is, he's, the world looks different. His dad was on, I'll mention second. I'm second Danny Parking shout out. But his dad was on Danny's radio show a couple days ago and said the bear, the reason Mahomes counted on his fingers when he scored a touchdown against the bears was because the bears told him, we're drafting you at three. and then they traded up for Trabisky and Mahomes was crushed because he really wanted to go to Chicago.

But in that same interview, and I'd never heard anyone say this, he said that Patrick has an idetic memory, which I just Googled what that meant. Identity. Yes. And that you can see something once and then always be able to pull it back, which I'd never heard someone say that about him. And maybe that's a dad, you know, embellishing about his kid. I don't know. But if that's true or something close to it and what, you know, you're saying Sean

Peyton told you, it does now all of a sudden you have like, so let me give you a, for instance, LeBron has the highest basketball IQ I've ever seen, plus kind of the perfect body for basketball. If it's like, hey, I want to play 20 years in the NBA. It's like, okay, you're going to have to be big enough to withstand injuries. You know what I mean? Tall enough. It's like, okay. So when check, check on like a brain thing and a body thing that leads you to this, right?

Mahomes has the physical gifts of like the crazy arm angle stuff and the arm strength from playing baseball. So that's like the physical stuff check. The memory thing that now we've had Sean Payton talk about, his dad talk about. his dad talk about it feels like we have contemporary evidence from seeing how he plays yep it's like oh there might have been like two genetic lottery things where it's like the in a same way that michael phelps like has the webbed fingers and toes it's like oh so it's like it's not just that you work so hard and all these things you also happen to be kind of blessed specifically for this type of greatness.

Yes. And so because there is an element with Patrick, and I think you want to talk Rogers, we can talk Rogers too, but with Patrick of he can, with the exception of like a three week stretch during last season, he can instantly figure out what the defense is doing and within a half adjust if need be. in a way that I've seen very few quarterbacks ever consistently be able to do. And the only one that I've seen be able to do it at this level is Manning. And Manning's problem, I think, problem is, listen, he's one of three best quarterbacks ever.

But for Peyton, what I think heard him a bit was he had that ability and almost couldn't turn it off to where if guys weren't where they were supposed to be, or guys through he didn't have the improvisational abilities that's right that Patrick has which are as good as anyone i've ever seen yeah as good as anyone i've ever seen what do you think's gonna happen with Aaron i think green bay ideally wants to send him to the raiders because with Peyton and Russ Herbert and Kellan Moore and Andy and mahomes he'll finish in the fourth place and so if Jordan Love is bumpy initially, which Aaron was in his first year, that, you know, Minnesota's not going 11 and 0 and 1 score games. Chicago's still awful and Detroit still Detroit,

although they're better. That I don't think they know quite yet what Jordan is, but if they can get another first round pick, address their tight-in situation, edge rusher, and get supplemental picks, right? That if, If the Jordan love situation's a little bumpy, Aaron's not crushing. Light in the world on fire.

Yeah. So, and I think, I think they want to move off. And I think this is why the Raiders right now are holding on a Derek car. The Raiders may be saying, the Raiders don't want to give up as much. I think Green Bay has leaked already publicly. All this stuff gets out, Nick, because somebody wants it out. Yeah. They've already leaked.

F. Aaron even said it. Well, they're talking about me. So Green Bay wants it out to the league, not Aaron. We are ready to move off him. Their takeaway is we don't know exactly know what Jordan Love is, but what we don't want is far of the Vikings good, at least for a year. Correct.

And listen, the Jets obviously won them. hired Hackett. Here's my, but I think Jets Raiders are obviously the leading contenders. Here's my question. Let's say Rogers does go to the AFC. Honest, honest question here. And then I'll give you the possibilities. Does that make Dak Prescott the second best quarterback in the NFC? Like, is Jalen won? And Jalen, by the way, I still think has some real question marks, but I give me credit for what he's done. Stafford. The problem for Stafford, though, is he's got an elbow and a spine injury and he's older.

Like, I mean, and even the year he won the Super Bowl, he led the league in picks and pick sixes. Like, and even if he is good, I think that team's not going to be good. Like, I was thinking about it, I was like, I mean, Kyler is a torn ACL is a pain in the ass and nobody seems like. Justin Fields is a great runner. We've seen nothing. Like, I was because I was just going down the list. of NFC quarterbacks because Jerry came out. I was like, we want Dak for the next 10 years. And I'm like, man, in the AFC, if Dak were your quarterback, you'd say we have to upgrade.

In the NFC, you say he might be the best quarterback left in the conference in a few months. It's crazy. It's crazy the level of discrepancy between quarterback talent and the two conferences. I mean, Trevor Lawrence, I think would be clearly the best quarterback in the NFC. and I don't know if he is top five in the AFC right now. Well, Mahomes would be, Alan would be. Burrow. Burrow would be. Herbert.

Herbert. Lawrence. Lamar, maybe. Deshawn, let's see if he ever gets it back. Where it's seven. Listen. I mean, there's. It's crazy.

Tanna Hill goes to Carolina tomorrow. He's no worse than third. I know. That's what's insane. I mean, too. I don't know if two is going to play again. I don't think he's that great. He would be in the discussion over there.

I mean, it is, it is bananas. Like, it's such a discrepancy. I feel like the NFL, like, has to behind the scenes be like talking about, like, what do we do here? Because we can't, we need to find a way to get. Now, I think they're probably thrilled. Chicago got the number one pick, but the problem in Chicago is not going to take a quarterback. Are they calling the Bears like, you have to trade that pick to an NFC team?

Well, you can't have it. No, it's crazy. Networks in the last several years. Remember when, because the AFCs always had the smaller markets except Boston. The NFCs always had the bigger markets. St. Louis became Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, Dallas, Dallas, Atlanta. whereas the AFC has got a lot of Cincinnati's. Kansas City, Jacksonville.

All right. And so for several years ago, Fox started losing occasional games to CBS. And the league said, we're going to even it out. Now they're still doing that. But Fox will probably get an increased number of NFC games. Yeah, because you need, it's a quarterback. League. And they didn't mean for it to happen this way. Right. But like I know this much, they need Caleb Williams to the NFC. Yeah. They need that. Listen, for years and years,

I, you know how I love theories in figuring stuff out, the jigsaw puzzle of sports. For 20 years, I couldn't figure it out. Why the F is the Western Conference always better than the Eastern conference. And I could not. I mean, I had weather theories. The West has better weather. Players don't like these eastern turbulent flights, cold weather, off a plane. Because Miami gets good players. So I thought, well, maybe it's a weather thing. And then Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban said something to me one time. And he said, the West has way better general managers outside of Miami.

That's why Miami engineers better trades. They've got a great general manager. And by the way, and then Boston got good with Danny Hange, who now moves west. And that sometimes it's just. So the truth is, the AFC has had better GMs make better picks on quarterbacks. By the way, Howie Roseman, great GM, found Jalen Hertz in the second round. Less need went and engineered a deal to get Matt Stafford. The AFC is hit on more of the quarterback picks, better GMing.

And I also think that there was, you had, Brady obviously went to the NFC. Rogers was there, Brees was there, and it was kind of being propped up by these old, the last three years, by these much older quarterbacks, two of which have now retired and one might be leaving the conference. Yeah, and it puts him in a really rough spot,

a really rough spot. Like, you know who they really would like to be a star is Trey Lance? You know what I mean? Like, God, because they spent that draft pick on him. Like, hey, It's a tough spot, man. If Mack Jones is a nine-er quarterback, they beat Philadelphia potentially. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Because he's just a distributor. The knock on tray is he's not accurate. That's why Shanahan, like Kirk Cousins, like Matt Ryan, preferred Mac Jones. It was almost your worst nightmare because you know if he wasn't a ram, he might have ended up being a nineer, Baker Mayfield. Do you imagine if that was Baker Mayfield coming to the rescue in that game instead of Josh Johnson, cutting up the Philadelphia Eagles going to the Super Bowl would have been legendary.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, untrower. filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm going to throw something at you. Yep. When Quentin Tarantino came on the scene, it's all anybody talked about for two years. Spielberg has done far more, far longer. But it wasn't new and shiny and fun. that we're not dissing LeBron or Brady or Spielberg

but we like the new stuff we like the new restaurant, the new nightclub the new Jha Morant, Zion Williamson, Josh Allen, who you've accurately said we like him more than his game produces and that I think LeBron was great early, great middle, great late. He's never had the

story arcs going to baseball like MJ, the fight with his GM, the no, couldn't win without Pippin, then had Pippin. And then he left for baseball. And then he came back. And then he lost to Orlando. Michael's career had so many different chapters. LeBron Spielberg, Brady, great early, great middle, great late.

What's there to say? Well, I think there's that. I also think that when it, the, so I don't know if you saw this, But when people hear or see this, it'll be, I think, on February 3rd is when this will come out. Your former employer is doing across all shows tomorrow, because tomorrow is 2.3-23, Michael Jordan tributes. And if you, I understand the timing on the calendar, but you also can't convince me that's not some editorial decisions by phone. who are heavily invested in Michael Jordan remaining the gold standard for everything, that we are going to be potentially a day away from LeBron breaking Kareem's record.

And we're going to have wall-to-wall Michael Jordan coverage. I mean, give me a goddamn break. And so there is, I think there has been so much of our sports logic. forever has been, I shouldn't say forever, the last 30 years, has not been based on what is objectively the best, but has been based on what is objectively the most similar to Michael Jordan's arc that we have, we've perverted so many arguments. Like Tim Duncan was a more successful, more impactful, more winning, more everything than Kobe Bryant. But when you say Tim Duncan was better than Kobe, it breaks some people's brains because they're not judging who's better.

They're judging who remind you more of Michael Jordan. I'm old enough to remember, as are you, that when Tom Brady, before he got to seven rings, after the Seattle Super Bowl, when he had four rings and then two Super Bowl losses, there were people that argued Joe Montana's four. rings were better than Brady's four rings because Montana never lost a Super Bowl, which is objectively idiotic because it just means he didn't get there. But the reason that was the case was because we had already decided that Jordan's 6 and 0 was better than Karim's 6 and 4, which never made any sense. Objectively speaking, that same logic would dictate, by the way, that Patrick Mahomes actually, if he loses in the week, that logic dictates, you know, it was bad for him to have this legendary performance on one leg and beat the Bengals.

Would have been better to just lose that game because loss is pre-championship round don't hurt you. But loss is in the championship round do. So much of it is about protecting the narrative. And I think the LeBron, if we wanted to tell the LeBron story the same way people want to tell the Michael Jordan story, the story of overcoming incompetent coaching at various steps, overcoming incompetent teammates, of having no true like basketball training. He's come straight out of high school as opposed to having Dean Smith. Instead of coming from a great two-parent household, he had one parent, incredibly poor, and that one parent dealt with their own issues. All of that could be part of the legend.

But since the guy's been 27, a huge part of the story surrounding him has been discrediting what he's accomplished because people want to protect Jordan. I truly believe that. Yeah. And I think we're still seeing it. Can I throw this in? This is engineered by Michael, who remains a grudgeholder and incredibly petty. And the reason he okayed use of certain footage to ESPN, because after LeBron beat the Warriors,

there were real discussions that LeBron's better than MJ. And MJ suddenly. The next day. The next. He okayed it the day after the break. Yep. And now, as LeBron gets ready to. set the record. This is not coincidental. Michael is petty. He's a grudge holder. He still holds a

grudge to Isaiah Thomas. Who the F cares anymore about that? So Charles Barkley, who used to be his best friend. It's the, and it is just, I don't think. And, and but the other part of it, forget the Michael part of it. The other part of it is on the media writ large for just deciding what we are and are not going to treat with importance. I made this point on the TV show, but I didn't make it to you. I think you'll agree with me. There was far more day by day, breathless coverage of Steph Curry breaking the three point record last year than there has been about LeBron breaking the all-time points record. Last night, or Wednesday night, LeBron passed four and five in the all-time assist rankings.

Nobody cares. So he's going to be top four in assists. The day he becomes number one in points. And it feels like it has been a sub-story. Go ahead. No, you know, Nick, one of the things I've noticed by the media, I never blame fans. It's short for Fanatic for having favorites.

That's why they're great. But one of the things I've noticed, I remember Jerry Seinfeld was asked, it was like two years ago. And he was asked about the media and the COVID coverage and people and their opinions. And, you know, I remember reading somewhere, Jerry Seinfeld said, well, maybe the media should do a better job. And I do believe the media can be condescending. They have agendas. I see it in the coverage about our careers where it's.

So I only can judge based on information I have and stuff that. written about our careers, radio TV. What's it like for politicians? What's it like for star athletes? So I don't think. And what's funny is, um, Jordan basically refused to talk to Sports Illustrated because of a cover. Jordan won't talk to Isaiah Thomas for Charles Barkley.

He's petty. LeBron James may call out certain people, but LeBron has been the most of, available NBA star outside of maybe magic of my life. He is every night, local broadcasts, regional. Correct. Every night. And he doesn't do the big sit down interviews anymore except for maybe once a year unless

it's with his own company. You know, he has his own production company. So he does stuff with him, which makes sense. But I mean, talking all the time. and it's just, it is incredibly frustrating to me. And the other thing that is also frustrating to me is that none of us, myself included, none of us thought it was possible for him to be in year 20 playing like this.

Year 19 and 20, he's averaging 30 points, 36 minutes per game, better than 50% shooting. None of us thought it was possible. And yet almost nobody has stopped to appreciate it. We didn't think it was possible and then we instantly started taking it for granted. And they're like, oh, they're not winning enough. Which is true except for the fact that this is an unbelievable stat. When LeBron's on the court, Colin, the Lakers have a better net rating than Milwaukee. When he's off the court, they have a worse net rating than the Hornets.

So with the teammates around him, when he plays, they are A1 contenders. When he goes to the bench, they're a bottom three team. And I mean, that's an indictment on the general managing and on the roster construction, but it's not an indictment on LeBron. The other night I went to dinner with my daughter. And I was at the bar at Craigs in West Hollywood. Oh, that's where you and I went. Yeah.

I think. Isn't that where you and I went? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And so the Nett Celtics first quarter was on and it was about 10 feet away from me and the sound was down and I was watching it and it was like, you know, 4619 or something. Yeah. And, you know, I didn't hear what was happening. But it is really interesting that, and I made this point today on FS1.

Stafford left to the Rams because they had a better coach and a better roster. It was about winning. Peyton went to the Broncos. Go back and look at that roster. It was about winning. Tom left New England because he saw the league pivoting to offense. They literally in New England could not draft or develop a singular wide receiver. Last year in Foxborough, the cameras caught him one game screaming at receivers.

Somebody get open. Separate. So Tom actually went to dysfunctional Tampa to win more. he had control of the offense and offensive coach and weapons. Russell Wilson went to Denver for the right reasons. It just didn't work out. They had better players. But let me criticize the NBA for this.

Kevin Durant left winning to go play with a friend. LeBron left four straight finals for business. Kyrie left winning to be the man and Melo left winning in Denver, which he did a lot of for a city. And that one of the reasons I think fans really like the NFL is because the players feel like all they care about is winning, not being the man, not playing with friends. If Mahomes left the chief to the Jets to play with a friend, he would be laughed out of the league. It would be insane because your chances of winning is that when players talk about, you know, KD, you're a casual. I'm like, dude, sometimes you guys treat winning casually.

Well, can I push back on that? Sure, please. Okay. So Durant, though, also left Oklahoma City purely for winning and got crushed for it. You didn't. I'll give you credit, you didn't, but in the bigger picture, got crushed for it. LeBron left Cleveland to go to Miami. Yes, with friends.

Yes, weather, yes, all that. But also to win, went back to Cleveland. and won. And yes, going to Los Angeles, there were a lot of side benefits to it, but he believed he could win there, and he did. So, you know what I mean? It's not like LeBron's gone anywhere and not I think the distinction I would draw is this. I think the true NBA superstars either, you know, sometimes correctly and sometimes incorrectly believe where I go, we will win. So I might as well go to a city I want to be in. I might as well play with my friend because I am going to be the reason that winning that, you know, that winning happens. So I should be able to do it, you know,

wherever I want to do it. I also think I think that there's, I think the NBA has a few significant kind of structural issues. Yeah. That I, I don't have the immediate fix to. But one of them, if you do want kind of a more spread out stars and you do want the stars to have less leverage actually, I do think that one of the problems they have is the capped individual max contracts puts a lot like teams can't offer more. They, they're actually not being, I talked to a GM once and I was like, why do you think these teams, you know, kind of count out to the certain players sometimes? And he goes, well, he goes, you know, for the true superstars, they're all underpaid.

And so you have to pay them in extra stuff, either influence or how you treat them or all these things. He goes, if, you know, if a guy's worth 70 million, if you're paying him 70 million, oddly enough, his argument was you actually have more control because it's like, hey, we paid you your actual market value. We expect to get X, Y, and Z. But when the guy's worth $70 million and you're capped out at paying him 35, and then he's like, I don't want to play him back to backs. And I want my buddies to be able to ride on the team flight these things. It's like, well, damn it, we can only offer you what everyone can offer you.

So whoever says yes to it is then going to get, you know what I mean? It's going to sometimes get the free agency decision. So I actually think, sorry about that. I actually think oddly that individual player cap has caused a lot of these issues. because everyone's offering the same amount and it also makes it to where you can't just say, hold on, I want to offer Janus $80 million and see if he can turn it down. And if you do that, then there wouldn't be super team. So I think that's one of the issues, but I don't think that's changing at any point.

All right, buddy, that's 45 minutes. That's more than we could have ever asked for. Nick Wright, co-hosts First Things First. Also, he has his podcast, What's Right with Nick Wright. You, Bruce Arr and Kevin Wilds are so infinitely likable in the chemistry. So Jason McIntyre, who's now in my show, I feel very lucky. I've had Joy and McIntyre back-to-back. Both make me laugh.

And McIntyre, we had a really, we had in our highest-rated month in January ever. I saw that. Congratulations. Yeah. Thanks. And it, which is kind of cool because FS1 and every other cable networks lost 30% of their subs over the last six years. So it doesn't make any sense. And you know, Jason asked me about two weeks ago. He says like, what do you think we're doing really well? Why? And I said, because we like each other. And because people just want to hang out. They're not sitting there with a notepad. Oh, oh, he made a mistake. Oh, people want to feel like your people they'd hang out with. And when I watch your guy's show,

it looks like if you gave each of you a cocktail and a bar stool, it's literally shit talking among friends and it's terrific. Well, that's very, very kind of you. We obviously are very fortunate to have you as, you know, couldn't ask for a better lead in. I am a hell of a lead in. It's a hell of a lead in. And so that's been wonderful.

And by the way, I'm not, listen, I don't have access to the data. but in your highest rated month, I would imagine your highest rated segments were Tuesdays around 1 p.m. Eastern when I come on with you. I mean, just power pack 15 minutes.

But the show's been a ton of fun. And we, the podcast I do with my son. Yes. As of a couple days ago, hit 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. We've been doing it less than a year. So that's pretty dope as well.

And I, so I appreciate that. And I can't wait. I fly in on Wednesday to Arizona. So as soon as I land, I'm going to come see you because you got a little shindig going. So I'm going to try to make it before it closes up shop. Yep, the volume party in downtown Phoenix.

As always, buddy, it's great seeing you. You too. Talk to you later, come. The volume. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope.

Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Casey McGrady, make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed human.