The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright Part 1: NBA Is Still Great…Just Not In January, Market Size MATTERS, Big NFL Draft Swings

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Colin is joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They start by talking about why the NBA is still fantastic, just not in January (3:00) and why the NBA needed to start pivoting to the younger generation of stars sooner than they have (8:00). They push back on the narrative that the size of a team’s market doesn’t matter (11:45), why LeBron was an outlier in being the only true “face of the league” playing in a small market (14:00) and why this Knicks playoff run is huge for the league (23:00). Nick explains why he can predict the Chiefs opponent in their home opener based on the size of their opponent’s brand and the narrative surrounding them (23:00). Colin offers his theory on why cap space isn’t as debilitating as advertised and why teams need to be confident in taking big swings, a la Atlanta drafting Michael Penix…but Nick pushes back (30:00).  Don’t forget to check back for part two of the conversation with Nick Wright! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Betts expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. All right. We do it every few weeks. Every couple of weeks and we love it. Nick Wright stops by for about an hour. We'll chop it up.

First things first, my friend, all that stuff. So I was going to start with this. I'm not a traditionalist. I didn't go to church as a kid. I'm agnostic. I grew up rurly. I wasn't in your classic suburb. My mom was British in a rural town where there was no British people, especially ones with strong accents.

And I've always been a bit of a loner. So I'm not a traditionalist. I don't cling to stuff, right? Okay. And so when the PAC 12, my favorite college football conference, or the Seattle Sonics left, I had people that were like, how are you not furious? And I said with the Pact 12, USC gets $30 million annually from the Pact 12 TV deal. They're going to get $85 million annually from the Big Ten.

If I can tell you, you're going to triple your income and do the exact same thing. You'd take the job. You wouldn't be loyal to the calendar or your boss. You take the job. So I am not a traditionalist. And so I can think two things at once. I can love something, but move off it instantly. And I think about this.

with the people who bang on the NBA. The NBA load management drives me fricking nuts. I think it's terrible business. I literally have made decisions in the regular season. I'm going to watch a game. And I'm like, oh, Janus isn't playing. I'm going to go have dinner with my wife or something.

That's correct. Yeah, I do it all the time. I'm like, oh, KD's not playing? Well, I'm not watching the Sun's game. So I always think, what about a kid that goes to two NBA games a year? And he's at that game. So it's funny. But I also, one of the things,

I don't like about the internet is that there's a lot of bad actors. It is okay to criticize the NBA for that. But know that Amazon's going to pay him a fortune, NBC and TNT are in a bidding war, and they're going to double the revenue the league brings in. And oh, by the way, the playoffs have been absolutely riveting, can't turn it off amazing. The playoffs have been electric. Electric. And by the way, this is the first round. This is the round you can look past. So my take on, I never mind people who are pushback, contrarian. But I do feel you and I are pretty honest about, yeah, I was either wrong or I can, I can literally think two things. Load management pisses me off and the NBA's great. It's just not great in January. Well, and things the,

there are the, everything has become, it feels so tribal. Yes. That you, it's, It is everything is the way a diehard fan of a specific sports team. The way a diehard fan of Alabama football, Roots for Alabama football, is basically how a huge percentage of people deal with every aspect of their life. I fucking love it. So everything about it is correct and anyone criticizing it is wrong, as opposed to any type of, I love this, didn't like this, this is good, this is bad. Anyone that acts as if the NBA, the folks who've been like NBA is dying, you know,

that is baby, you know, it's a step, it's obviously not true. Anybody though acting as if that there aren't aspects to the, the overwhelming, and what is about to be under the new TV deal, hundred million dollar a year contracts that complicate a lot of the day-to-day factors of the league they're being intellectually dishonest in my opinion. I also, I do think, and I maybe have mentioned this to you, I know I mentioned it on my pod, but I do think the NBA made a strategic error this season. So I'm going to tell a, I'm going to do a Colin Coward in a bit.

I'm going to give an anecdote or a story. It'll get there. So a guy who you know, I'm sure, Conor Shell. Yeah. So, you know, he used to be run, it was a big executive at ESPN, helped start 30 for 30s. Now he runs a company of his own. Oddly, his father and my mom worked together when I was a little kid. So I knew Connor as a little kid.

And I never really knew exactly what his dad did. And maybe I'm wrong. But as a little kid, what it was described to me as, he was in charge of long-term strategy. Meaning like when Sprint came out with a new phone, his job would be like, okay, when this phone is bordering on obsolete, how are we going to sell the last hundred of them? You know what I mean? Like long, long-term thinking. and I think the NBA needed someone in that role 18 months ago to say, guys, here is all of NBA history and ages of guys on their last playoff run. Is it on the board that we just had the final LeBron deep playoffs, Steph deep playoffs, Durant deep playoffs.

these guys. Is it possible, in fact, overwhelmingly likely that one, two, or all of them aren't going to be around when the calendar turns to May? If so, is it worthwhile for us to take a short-term regular season ratings hit by featuring the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Minnesota Timberwolves, these teams to prime the audience that this is where our league's going. And they didn't do that. Instead, it was Warriors, Lakers, Sons, these guys. So I do wonder if this second round of the playoffs, when you have Nuggets, Timberwolves,

and when you have Thunder, maybe Mavs, if people are going to see a ratings dip, it won't affect the new TV contract, all of that, but because the audience doesn't know, this is their league now. Colin, if the bucks lose this season, series. They're down three, two. And if the clippers lose this series, yeah, the oldest star player left in the playoffs. Lucas. No, not Luca. Kyrie is Kyrie, who's 30, just turned 32.

The everyone, everyone will be gone. Like, Joker, who's 28 or 29 will be like the third oldest star left. The clippers are all old guys. They're on the, I think, going to lose. The Lakers are already out. The Warriors didn't make it. The sons are out. The bucks are on the brink. Like, this is a massive storming of the gates of the 20-somethings, but everyone should have expected it when Kobe Bryant's last playoff game ever, he was 32, Michael Jordan was 35. Like, you guys don't play. People saw what LeBron did, so they thought Stefan Durant and Kauai and Paul George are going to do it. Nobody else is going to do it. Stephen KD already exceeded age expectation. So I think the NBA made a mistake there.

also think my favorite two months of the year are the NBA playoffs. My favorite 20 days of the year are my 20 NFL Sundays and my favorite two months of the year are the NBA playoffs. Yeah, I don't disagree. Last weekend, the NBA playoffs is the best non-NFL weekend of the year by far. I just I didn't leave my place the whole damn weekend. I thought it was just draft playoffs. Draft. It was so good. It was so good. No, and you know, the other thing is, um, the one thing about the NBA is, the one thing about the NBA. I know leagues wish it was true, but it's not. There's been this sense that, you know, market size doesn't matter because players can get rich in Oklahoma City or New Orleans. Right. Just like a guy in Boise can make more than everybody in New York if he has a deal with

McDonald's, like to produce their French fries, which for a long time was J.A. P. Simplot. That's a guy. Oh, I thought you were making that up. That's actually a guy. The guy in Idaho had the McDonald's contract or whatever. Okay, got it. For a long time, the richest guy in Boisey was richer than the richest guy in New York, right? So, but I'll push back on markets do matter. First, the players do want to play in your Miami's, your L.A.'s. It's a winter league.

There's a history. Players don't choose Milwaukee. The second thing, I'm going to go back to the first NBA game I remember watching. So when I was a little kid, I would cut out pictures. there was a board by my bedroom, almost styrofoam. My dad put up there. You could put needles and posters on it. And Elmore Smith was a 6-9 Lakers center.

And I started putting sports stuff up. I remember Elmore Smith was the first one I put up. And then there was overtime. He was a Lakers center back when the Lakers like pre-wilt and pre-all-this, yeah, I think. It was around that time or may have been post-wilt, pre-wit, whatever. So it would have been, for your age, it would have been post-wilt pre, Right. Yeah, go ahead. Showtime. It was like early 70s.

70s. Yeah. So I go back and I look at the biggest stars in the league. So when I first watch, it was either Jerry West or Wilt, Los Angeles. And then it was after that very quickly, Dr. J., Philadelphia. Yeah. And by the way, Dr. J. New Jersey in the ABA. You know, it might as well be in New York Metro. Okay. So it was Jerry West, L.A., Jerry and Wilt. It was Old Wilt. And then it was Dr. J. And then the league went through a little while there didn't really have a star. And then it was LA Magic Boston Bird, MJ Chicago, Shaq and Kobe, L.A., LeBron Outlier Cleveland, Jordan, Chicago, right? Steph, San Francisco. LeBron is the only face of the league in a small market. Now, Cleveland has always played bigger because they have such a rich history with all their sports.

It may be losing, but the Cleveland Browns are like the Cincinnati Reds, right? Like kind of a bedrock franchise. So that this idea that markets don't matter. And the reason I say this is the danger for the NBA and they've got their money is Denver, Minnesota, Oklahoma City, Indiana. That Jalen Brunson, with like a KD, we may not have a face of the league coming up. but they will become the franchise of the league. Oh, listen, people have been, the New York Knicks have not won a title since 1973. The New York Knicks have been to two finals in the last 50 years, and one of them, they got their heads handed to them in the lowest rated season ever, first season post-Jordan, lockout year, 50 games.

and yet they are over that same time frame, you know, top five most talked about team. You are seeing it right now. The fan base is rabid. You have a disproportionate amount of media members who care about the team or root for the team or whatever. They are dying for this team to matter, dying for it to matter in a way that is,

there are some similarities to like what the football media does with the Cowboys and what basketball media does with the Knicks, except the Cowboys at least in my lifetime, had a dynasty and have had multiple good teams with no great teams. The Knicks have only had a handful of good teams, no championships, and only really came close once ever in 94. And so I think your point on market size is multi-layered in a lot of ways.

I think that guys will always, young, rich, usually single guys are just also going to want to go pool places and live somewhere awesome. And again, I'm from Kansas City and I love Kansas City. But if I were 24 with 30 million, it would suck. Like, you know what I mean? It's, we're blessed that Mahomes was like, oh, buy a piece of the royals. my wife will buy a soccer team and you know what I mean, we'll just basically become king and queen of the city, or else you can outgrow.

Also, football, you don't have to be there as long as you have to be there during the year as basketball and baseball. I think this Knicks run is important for the league. I do think that. And I think there is. So do I. And I think that your point on if they were to get a Durant, And it wouldn't even have to...

The thing is this, Jalen Brunson scored 40 and three straight games. I did not... I'll tell you the... Nobody did. So I'll tell you a funny story. Let me turn this light on, see if my lighting is a little bit better. I know it's a little dark where I am. Sorry about that.

I should turn it on before. So I was at Philly Nicks game four in Philly. So, and I had... I was very fortunate. I had amazing seats. So I'm basically right between... the Knicks bench and the scorers table where they, uh,

and there's row one court side, row two court side feet on the wood, and then row AA, which is the first row that isn't feet on the wood. So that's where I am. In between the first and the second quarter, Rick Brunson, Jalen's dad,

who's a coach on the Knicks. Yeah. Sees me. And he's like, hey, you owe my son an apology. He's smiling when he says it. And I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, you know what I mean. You owe him an apology. And I think it was because when they signed him, because there's a clip that Nick's Twitter put out of everyone who was wrong about Jalen, when they sign him, I'm like, listen, he's a nice player. But if he's your third best, I think what I said was if he's your third best guy, you can win a title. If he's your second best guy, you can be good.

And if he's your best guy, you're not a good team. It was what I thought. Like, you know what I mean? The whole league did. Right. I don't think it was a terrible take. It ended up being. And so I'm like, I've already said I was wrong.

He was like, you need to say it on TV. And I'm like, buddy, I'm like, I had him fourth on my MVP ballot. Now, I don't actually have a ballot per se. But in my, when I list him on the show, and so he's like, he's like, oh, okay, cool, cool. But you know how I talk. I talk like this. this with my hands. He's kind of similar. His back is to the court. He has now walked like right to the scorers table and I've stood up to talk to him. So we're not like nose to nose, but we're leaning

in having, you know, a very friendly great conversation. Second court is about to start. One of the refs jogs over and pats him on the shoulder. It's like, hey, do we need to kick that guy out? thought he and I were arguing. And Rick, to his credit, started laughing. He's like, no, he's, I think he even said that's my buddy, which is nicer than I deserved. He was like, no, we're cool. And then the ref maybe recognize me and like, realize everything was fine. But in the moment, I was like, oh, man, that would have been the ultimate power move by him if he had said to the ref.

In fact, yeah, you know, why you're getting kicked out? Because three years ago, you were wrong about my kid. Now you're out of here. That doesn't really answer. It doesn't really answer your question. But yes, the Knicks being great. It's also why, here's another kind of spin off to that take. How awful are Brooklyn Nets fans? You had the, you had Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, James Hardin. No one cared. No one in the city cared. Like it was like the Knicks have one guy and a team that plays so hard. And they are infiltrating Philadelphia.

The tickets are $600 to get in. The Nets were on deep playoff runs against Janus. And people are like, do I want to go to Barclays in Brooklyn? It's unbelievable. Well, you know what it is? It shows you the power of brand. It's the Clippers Lakers. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

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We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

The late John Madden, Eric Shanks has brought this up before. You know, John Madden was the only football broadcaster of note that literally moved a rating. Now, sports gambling now moves ratings. People don't leave bad games. You can see it. So we know that if you're, if you have money on games and as the rollout of legalized gambling happens in America, it's helping television. People have more vested. Financially, they stay in games.

But John Madden was the first and maybe only broadcaster to do that. And he always had a theory. Say the game out loud. Does it sound like a big game? And he said, when you say Packers-Niners, oh, that's got to be a big football game. They could both be four and six. It feels like a big.

The New York Knicks have always felt big, even when they stunk the last 20 years. If the Knicks, here's all you need to know, Jordan goes there, Kobe goes there. it felt big to them. They could be 12 games under 500. Michael Jordan and Kobe, it was like, I'm going to New York.

I'm going to put on a show. So New York just is. It just feels big. 100%. So speaking of that branding, this is unrelated, but you want to play a game real quick. Sure.

So the Chiefs host, obviously, the opening game of the year. So we know who their eight opponents are. I did a thing on the air today where I said, I bet I think I know what game the NFL is going to put there. So let me tell you who the opponents are and see where you land on it.

For the open. For the Thursday night, first game of the year. Last year was Chiefs Lions, right? So your eight possible opponents are obviously Chargers, Raiders, Broncos, your three divisional opponents. your NFC opponents are a buck saints and your AFC non-divisional opponents are Ravens, Texans, Bengals. Now let me give you one piece of info. NFL's been doing this, Super Bowl champion hosts for, you know, the opener for 20 years.

Only once have they made it a divisional matchup. So the NFL kind of tells us they tend not to because Chiefs Chargers like Harbauls opener or whatever. Well, that's what I, my first guess was the last time we saw Jim coach, he won the national championship at Michigan. Yeah. I thought, Mahomes and Michigan's brand, I would guess Chargers. But if the NFL doesn't want to do divisional, because again, 19 of 20 years, they've gone non-divisional. So if it's not, because I think the charges one is interesting. So give you the non-divisional teams again.

Okay. Bucks, Saints, Texans, Bengals, Raiders. last year it was Chiefs Lions. I think it's going to be Texans. Yes. Me too. So do you want to say why you think it or you want to hear from me? Well, because the Lions were the team.

It was a good story. Losing team looks like they're going to be really good. So you got the champions and this ascending young team with this brand that's well known. The Texans dysfunctional, they pop up. There's a sense they're ascending brand. And also, the Lions won that game. So that game is so big for the Lions and so big for the Texans, there's a possible upset in week one. And so this is, in wrestling, I think, I don't know what the parlance is, but sometimes when they're trying to make someone a star, they make sure they have a game against the established star.

And, you know, and that's how they get over. So I think that, I think bucks and saints are basically impossible. There's no chance that's the opening game. Obviously, Raiders, Broncos are not going to happen. There's no quarterback. Chargers would work, but it's divisional. So now we're down to three, in my opinion. Ravens, Bengals, Texans.

The reason I said, I don't think they'll do Ravens, is because if the season starts with the Ravens, having added Derek Henry, you know, coming off this great year, losing to the Chiefs again, it's, going to kind of make the AFC feel like, all right. You know what I mean? Like, if the chiefs start the year beating Baltimore, then how many games in a row would they have to lose before people are like they're in trouble? You know what I mean? So I don't think it's going to be Baltimore. Joe Burrow, unfortunately, multiple years now, has been dinged heading into the first week of the year.

He's also coming off that surgery. I think they want that to be like later in the year marquee. then you have the Texans who if they lose, no one's going to write them off. If they win, it's a catapult. It features, it's the NFL kind of being like telling you, hey, this is the team to watch. C.J. Stroud, all of it, they weren't on national TV at all last year. So I just, I know it sounds weird. I feel almost convinced it's going to be Chiefs Texans to open the NFL season.

It just makes the most sense. And I think what you said is the NBA didn't do this. The NFL is doing it. Here's the next potential star. Meet them. Right. Or the next, they did with the Lions last year. Yeah.

They told America, the Lions hadn't even made the playoffs. They told America, you need to take this team seriously. Like this is a, and they won. And right. And they ended up winning. It was an electric game and all of it. So one of my favorite things to do. I don't think I'm a contrarian, but I think what I am, and this is probably not a good quality, I'm a bit of a cynic.

I'm agnostic, I'm not real religious, prove it to me, I want data. But I don't go off into the weeds. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But one of the things I hear all the time, and I just, I really led with it today. And I just felt so strongly about it. Probably shouldn't have been in my opening block, but I felt strongly about it, is there's this thing out there. I'm a big believer you have to take big swings in life if you're confident in yourself because A, if it lands, it changes your life. Yep.

And if it doesn't, yeah, you refinance your mortgage, you figure out, you know, if you make a big, if you miss on something in real estate. You can recover. You'll recover. If you really have confidence in your intellect, your stability and your ascension as a human being, you're fine. So there's always this talk about, oh, dead cap. that dead cap money is a killer. The Rams were 80 million over the cap last year and made the playoffs and were a bad call on Puka Nakua from making the NFC championship. Why? McVeigh's great. Stafford's great. Tom Brady was a $35 million dead hit for the bucks last year. They made the playoffs.

Aaron Rogers was a $40 million dead cap hit for the Packers. They routed the Cowboys and gave the Niners, a real battle on the way to the NFC championship. Philadelphia, 2021, the Carson Wentz contract. Ooh, how punitive. No, no, they drafted Jalen Hertz and they've been just fine. Is that there's this myth. Oh, the Kirk Cousins contract. If Bow Nicks can play, Denver's fine.

They're absolutely fine because they drafted. Are you talking about the Russell Wilson contract right now? So you look at it. Oh, my God. But if Bo Nix can play, he's essentially free for four years. And I think he will work. He completed 77% of his college passes against like the best PAC 12 has been in my lifetime. So my point is there are, and I say this, Atlanta, this is why I defended Atlanta.

Atlanta said, what you don't want to be is last year, the Vikings had to make a trade to get Josh Dobbs. Atlanta's going, listen, Ritter was terrible, Cousins is the best on the market. at eight, we think we can get a quarterback. But we don't know. And by the time they got to eight, they did get calls from other people. And they thought, screw it. What if Kurt comes back and he's okay?

And by Thanksgiving, we're like, Penix is way better in practice. So my take was it is viewed as terrible. But it's a heavily weighted contract early. If you had to move off Kirk after a year and Pennix is great, that's the that's like rich people complaining about taxes that is the best problem to have in the NFL well so okay so i i understand what you're saying but i actually don't i think that what you said at the beginning is the opposite of what they did i don't look at this as a big swing i look at

this as the ultimate hedge i look at this as a team that post matt ryan has been in quarterback hell and said never again, never again. And instead of, in my opinion, giving yourself the best chance to be great, you lowered your ceiling because you wanted to make sure the floor didn't bottom out because to use both, you had two massive assets, your cap space and the eighth pick.

They used them both on the same spot where only one guy can play. So if you really, and I don't think here's the other, other thing. Because I am a bit of a contract nerd as far as the fact that they structured Kirk's contract the way they did where instead of guaranteeing the salary, they put it in signing bonus, you could have given the same amount of guaranteed money, but made it easier to trade him in a year. And they gave him a fucking no trade clause. So I don't think when they signed him seven weeks ago, they thought they were drafting a quarterback.

And if you really had the courage of your convictions in pinnics, now maybe you're worried he's not going to be there. I don't think a lot of people thought panics wasn't going to be there at eight, then use that money to make the rest of your team better. I just, I think Atlanta was so scarred by Desmond Ritter that they're like, we're never going through that again. Thanks for listening to Part 1 of the Conversation with Nick. Don't forget to check back for part two. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced game. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. Space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.