The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright Pt. 1, 2025: The Year Of Great NFL Coaching Openings?, Andy Reid Retirement Rumors, Reid>Belichick?, Mahomes BETTER Under Pressure

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

Colin is joined by Nick Wright, host of FS1’s “First Things First” for a special two-part pod. Colin and Nick look ahead to 2025 and the potentially great NFL coaching openings for teams with great quarterbacks and debate whether it might make sense for this year’s candidates to wait on taking a job (3:00). They weigh in on the rumors that Andy Reid could retire if the Chiefs win the Super Bowl (9:30) and whether Reid could surpass Belichick as the greatest coach of all time (19:00). They also debate whether Tom Brady could be viewed in 30 years the same way Bill Russell is… AN all-time great but also a product of his time and environment (29:30).  They also talk about how Patrick Mahomes elevates his game and plays BETTER in the biggest games, when other all-time greats did not (34:00). Don’t forget to check back for part 2 of the pod where Colin and Nick go WAY off the rails! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So there is a weird thing. And I've seen it in a lot of fields, but since we're sportscasters, we'll talk about this. And I saw it with Sean Payton, that Sean came to Fox and was really good. And I kept saying, and Sean and I would talk about, you know, his deal with Fox and the money. And we went to dinner once or twice. And it was really open. He's like, you know, what do you think I'm worth? And I'm like, listen, Sean, you're really good at.

at this. And I think you should stay at Fox. And I said, you know, if a perfect job comes open, go. But I said, here's what you're worth. You know, Fox has never lowballed people. Fox tends to pay very reasonable money. You're not, it's not, I mean, I worked at Disney where you argued over number two pencil. Fox has always been, I think, more reasonable in negotiations. Mine would have been quick and fast. And you don't get everything you want, but it's, you know, they're not, they're not going to hold you over a barrel on stuff. Right. It's a company. It's a corporation. And, you know, they want to win. But. And so when he took. And. And so, when he took. And then I knew he was going to take a job when I started texting him and he wouldn't return him.

And I thought, okay, he's now in a space. He can't talk to me. He's got to protect the new owner. And so then a couple days later, he took the Denver Broncos job. And I remember thinking, because we had talked about it, I didn't love that for him. Not that I think, I thought he would get the best out of Russell, but Russell's money, Mahomes twice a year, Herbert. I'm like, jumping into an act. adverse situation. Yeah, that's a lot of lifts here. And it's funny. I think this about Mike Vrable. So Vrable's name hasn't come up a lot. But I was writing this down today. My argument is Vrable. There's one great job because there's one really excellent quarterback who needs a coach, Chargers, Herbert. I'm going to throw these out to you. And I feel bad mentioning the names because these are employed people. So I'll just mention.

in the quarterback. It is possible, perhaps not probable, but in some cases, very possible, either an impulsive owner or a very hot seat situation, that next year, Derek Carr, Caleb Williams, Jalen Hertz, Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rogers, much lower-level Josh Allen, will need a new coach. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I don't, not remember a year. This year there's one. There's seven coaches that need to win, either division, multiple playoff games. And I thought to myself, Mike, next year, you know how usually you don't have many great candidates? This year we have like Harbaugh. Yeah. Barbaugh, Braille, Belichick, Ben Johnson. It's a good year for candidates. Next year is potentially a remarkable year for

openings. And your take on that, like, I, I think that's smart. Go ahead. I think McDermott would be on a very low. I think they like Sean, but I do think you can only lose so many playoff games to the same team. Yeah. I mean, I don't think McDermott's on the low end. I mean, they, this isn't Nick trolling the bills. They put a giant banner of the Lombardi trophy in their practice facility, and they started six and six. And then for the second straight year. So for the reason McDermott's not, you know, the reason he starts near the hot seat is four years in a row, they have gone into a playoff game either against Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow on a five,

six or seven game winning streak. The last two have been in their building and they've lost. So next year, they lose in the playoffs to Mahomesboro or now add Lamar to it. you can't just keep, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, I think that absolutely, I think he is, I think he starts the year on the hot seat. It's also why I think Siriani is going to be in a rough spot. What happened with Siriani from last year to this year?

Among other things, the coordinators left, right? I don't know. I know there was reports today. They're interviewing Ron Rivera. I would think the best coordinators might be apprehensive to go to Philly this offseason because it's like we might. we might we start the year on the hot seat. So the, I think it's a really unique point that if you are a guy who there are certain guys who,

if they don't strike while the iron's hot, they're not going to be a head coach, right? Or they're going to have to take a step back. Brable's not one of them. Rable, I think Belichick could find a far better job next year than Atlanta. I think Belichick's problem is, shouldn't say problem. He's like, I'm so much older. I don't want to sit a year out. You know what I mean?

Especially if my goal is to catch Shula before I'm 77. Like I'm trying to coach now. So I think that is a really unique point. It's also why I thought, and it doesn't look like it now, I thought Harbaugh was going to go back to Michigan. Go back to Michigan, defend your national title, and then be not just be at the mercy of the chargers with the quarterback like you're saying next year three or four or five quarterbacks you know what I mean could need a head coach

so I think I think that is a really smart point it's also why if I were Ben Johnson I Ben Johnson kind of has to take a head coaching job right now because you're not not guaranteed that next year you're going to be the hot coordinator. Sometimes guys go from, oh, he's going to get a head coaching job to fire during the year. If things go sideways. But for Harbaugh, Brable, and in a different way, Belichick, I don't think that they should rush into it. Because you're right, when you look at the quarterbacks and the teams that could be available, it's incredible. Okay.

Let me throw another one at you. So I have made this argument before. So much of life is timing. So had the CTE scandal happened a decade earlier, today Andy Reid would be considered the greatest coach of all time and not Belichick. So once the NFL wrote a billion dollar check, it was at that moment that the league made some really clear distinctions on the kind of football they were going to allow. And it was much safer, much less hitting in practice. I mean, it's the knock now is that now starters don't play in the preseason. It is the safest the sport has ever been.

There are helmet developments happening, despite what happened in the freezing weathered Mahomes. The helmets will be elevated over time, practice schedules. I mean, offensive linemen just don't hit enough, arguably. That's why there's been an erosion, a regression, no line. had that happened 10 years earlier, that Andy Reid essentially had to work against the system. The system worked against Andy, and it worked in favor of Belichick and defensive coaches,

is that you could grab Andy's receivers. Receivers, you remember this barely, I lived through it, alligator arms. Receivers wouldn't go over the middle. Oh, yeah, I remember that. Absolutely. For my entire life until 12 years ago. and that if football that is allowed to be played now defensively, which completely, nobody can stop anybody at the end of the year.

The Niners defense, Chiefs flew through it last year. Eagles flew through it. Nobody can stop anybody. I mean, the Ravens went through the Niners defense, like a hot knife through butter. You can't stop anybody anymore. You can only hope that you can create pass rushes consistently and be good situationally because people are going to score on you. So to my point is Andy was hurt by the timing of the industry.

So I do hope Andy stays for another eight years. But he's not going to. He had a health scare. So here's another one. Andy and the Chiefs win a Super Bowl in a year in which they were doubted throughout by everybody but you or Chiefs fans. That Andy says, I've had health issues. This has been rough sometimes on my family. Mahomes is not going to get cheaper.

So I'll do it for Spags. I'll do it for Nagy and that Andy retires if they win the Super Bowl. And and this was floated by J-Mack today on Vrable because Vrable has a relationship with Andy and the Chiefs. And that, I guess, did he play for them? Braybill, yeah, he was in the Matt Castle trade. When Vrable, he was sent over when they traded for Castle. So just a thought, because the Chiefs historically have spent money on coaches. They don't go low budget.

So here's the thing. So Florio keeps floating the idea that Andy might retire. But Andy, when asked about it, keeps saying absolutely not. The fact that Andy dealt with a true tragedy when he was in Philadelphia with one of his sons at the facility didn't take a year off. Went right from Philly to Kansas City. A couple years ago for the Super Bowl, different type of tragedy. but another one of his sons kept going. I don't.

I think that Andy Reid, I would have to imagine while this year has been, like you said, challenging, working with Mahomes has to be the most fun part of his entire career up to this point. And if they win the Super Bowl, I would think the whole team would say, guys, wait a minute, for everyone,

forget the counting. the rings, forget everything. If we win it next year, all of us are now being talked about in a different way. I understand Belichick's got six. If Andy wins three in a row when no one in the history of football has done it, if Patrick wins three in a row. And that would, so I think that, and I'm not trying to right now be like, because they haven't won two in a row yet, but under the premise of if they win these next two games,

the stakes for all these guys on hold on a second. We can be the greatest team ever and have real legacy stakes attached to who we are and what we are. So I don't listen, maybe they would walk away or maybe he would walk away. But he seems to love it. He seems to really love it. So I'm not sure. I do find it. I thought Brable,

was maybe waiting to see if I'm shocked Philly Dallas Buffalo none of them open like it is I'll have to check if I'm right on this I think it's rare that not a single

playoff team fires their coach I think recently I think most years there's been at least one playoff team that's like that's not good enough so I think some of these guys were waiting for a great job to open I am shocked that Dallas neither Dallas nor Philly fire

their coach. And I'm at least a little surprised that Buffalo didn't given who's available at coach. But that is, that is interesting. And that does become if any, if I guess I would say this, if the coach, because I think maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure Jim Harbaugh has a connection to Kansas. I'd have to look it up. I just remember, maybe his wife, I'm not sure. I just remember when I was doing radio in Kansas City and the Kansas football job came open, people thought Jim Harbaugh might take it. And it was because there was some connection there. But the reason I'm saying any of this is, I think if any of the candidates thought there was even a 10% chance that coaching Patrick Mahomes could be available in a couple weeks, I think everyone would be pausing what they're doing

and saying, hold on. Let's see if that one is available to me. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics

from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I was thinking about this just as you were talking about Andy Reid. Because I really do think Andy has an argument as in that Bill Walsh vein is, I think he really is one of the three or four seminal great coaches in my lifetime. He's aged so gracefully in terms of his intellect. And he takes, it's almost a joyful experience.

He'll text me in the offseason plays. he'll send me a piece of video. He goes, I'm running this. I'm not telling you when, but I'm running it. I mean, he's like a kid. So, nobody's ever, of all the 30 for 30s that haven't been made, the one, I think I've told you this before that's never been made that I would love to see it. Michael Jordan, the wizard years.

What a disaster it was. The players hated him. Nobody's ever made it. People forget what a mess it was. but I imagine Jordan has the ability to stop it and talk about it and others won't badmouth them. But those years disappear into the ether. REM was a band that I loved. And then they went off the rails, in my opinion, and started sounding different.

And I never listened to them again. But I still love REM. I don't hold it against them. The greatest actors have been in terrible movies. Marlon Brando was in, you know, six or seven classics. and six or seven awful movies, it's never held against him. Yet with Belichick, I cannot unsee the last four years in New England. He is completely tone deaf.

He can't draft. He, it's as if he has no understanding of offense. He can't draft it. He can't develop it. He can't hire it. And it really, it's making, I can't get rid of it. I can get rid of Jordan, bad movies. I don't punish actors, directors, stars.

I can't unsee what I've seen from Belichick in four years. I can't keep him in the Walsh vein. And if Andy reels off a couple more, So this is something you said, you said this for the first time before the Chiefs won last year. I remembered. It was when it looked like they really could, but they hadn't yet won.

I think it was maybe the week leading up to the Super Bowl, but you started to, I think, kind of soft launch the idea of could Andy Reid become the greatest coach of all time? And when you first said it, I think everyone's immediate reaction is that's ridiculous. Like, no. But what I don't think people recognize, and I'm just going to pull it up real quick, NFL head coaches wins wiki. I don't think people understand where he is right now on the wins list. because it is way higher than you think. So he has regular season and postseason combined.

So he's 24 plus 258. So he is at 282 total wins. He is fourth all time on that list. All right. He is probably not going to catch Bill, but he is he has got a real chance of finishing third all time

and passing George Howells, right? On just playoff wins, he could absolutely catch Bill. Bill's at 31. Andy is at 24. Isn't that incredible? That's it. It doesn't.

It's incredible. And so it's like, wait a minute. Then the other thing, because I had this graph, for first things first. We never used it. But it was Pete Carroll,

who's obviously in a different class. But Pete Carroll's record with Russell Wilson, without Russell Wilson. And it's like really, really, really, pardon me, really, really good, not good at all. Belichick with Brady, without Brady. Unbelievable.

And then below 500. Andy, with Mahomes, without Mahomes. And it's unbelievable. And then it's really damn good. Yes. So it is. And Donovan McNabb was good, not great.

He was good. Mike Vic post prison. What I love Michael was good. He had one great year, but how much of that was because of Andy? Was that, you know what I mean? Andy put his arms around him. Andy helped him. Oh, Michael Vic acknowledges it was because of Andy.

Absolutely. Alex Smith, the only section of his career that, that was highly successful was with Andy. So it's not that he had nobody's a quarterback. I'm not saying that. But he was able to win divisions, win playoff games, go to conference championships,

and go to a Super Bowl without a Hall of Fame quarterback. Did all of that. And then the moment he got the Hall of Fame quarterback, instantly, it was the most prolific offense in the history. of the league that first year. Yes. And so there is something to be set. And his dexterity, it's like the reason we look at Prince as one of the great musicians, his ability to, I mean, like classically play multiple instruments. That's why he separates from other even great

performers, his dexterity. And his ability, conference, division, quarterback to win everywhere. There is no way to separate Belichick's career other than Brady years, non-Bradie years. And those are increasingly not just mediocre. They're getting to be embarrassing out of touch. Right. And so and the other part of it that is just the truth of it. And every, some people don't like when someone makes this point or I make this point. But the opposite of it, like, sometimes the best way to understand if an argument is a legitimate one is imagine if the exact opposite happened, what your feelings would be.

Oh, that's good. If Tom Brady went to Tampa and they were 3 and 13 and the next year, 4 and 12, and then he retired, would that be a plus or a minus for Bill's resume? that it would obviously be a plus. Now, it would be a little different because he was older. He'd be like, ah, you got old. But it would be a plus. It would be like, hey, Tom left there. They had two years prior, won the Super Bowl.

The previous year, they had won 11, 12 games and been in the playoffs. And then immediately fell, you know what I mean, fell apart. Instead, he left and immediately won the Super Bowl. And the next year, almost won league MVP and was in round two of the Super Bowl in a close, a tie game with a minute left. So, or round two of the plus, I should say. So that obviously hurts Bill a bit. Maybe it's not fair, but it is what it is that Tom was able to leave and have the highest

success one can have individually and team wise. One of Super Bowl came in second and MVP voting. When Tom left, Bill's team, it went from mediocre to downright awful in, in a very short period of time. And so that's a part, which is why I thought it was something, that it was going to be so important for Bill

to go coach the Cowboys or the Eagles, or the Bills, where he can then, even the score to a degree. Because it would then help Bill immensely. If the Cowboys hadn't been able to get over the hump for 30 years, he gets there and they do, then it's like, oh, okay, you know what I mean?

That was him. He just had problems. drafting players the last few years. And so it is a, it is a, at least an interesting idea. And here's the other thing that I would say. And this is why I think the count the rings stuff across sports, this is not a LeBron argument, but it touches it can be so foolish. Yes.

Yes. The count the rings. demands that we simply say both Brady and Belichick are the greatest of all time. But those rings are so, you understand what I mean? Like they both have a little Brady now is seven. But let's just say Brady retired right when the Patriots era ended, that he retired. And they count the rings thing demands that Phil and Michael and these things. But that then it almost creates an extra ring.

I know, I'm not describing this properly. but the Brady and Belichick's rings are intertwined, yet they both get 100% credit when compared to other quarterbacks or other coaches. There's no shared credit. And so if we're just doing count the rings, then it has to be the, you know what I mean? They're both the greatest of all time when I don't really feel that one. And I don't know which you can make an argument for who gets more credit. If it's Bill early, Brady, late, whatever it is. but is it more accurate to say that like Brady and Belichick between them have nine rings

that each coaching ring counts for a half, each player ring counts for one, and the real split is like five, four, or six, three, like it's weird. You know what I mean? They're both the greatest of all time when I don't really feel that way. And I don't know which you can make an argument for who gets more credited. It's Bill early, Brady late, whatever it is. But is it more accurate to say that, like, Brady and Belichick between them have nine rings, that each coaching ring counts for a half, each player ring counts for one.

And the real split is like five, four, or six, three, like, it's weird. How about this? What if in 30 years, 40 years, we view Brady? as Bill Russell. So we don't even argue that Russell is Michael Jordan. Kareem, we don't think he's nearly as good as modern players. Shack! But he's the most productive.

And in his era, he was a big, big man playing against often just smaller men. And the competition was very, very small. But he was part of the greatest Red Arbott. The biggest brand, the best roster. So in 30 to 40 years, as quarterbacks now run like Lamar and throw like Mahomes and are built like Josh Allen jumping over people, in 30 to 40 years when we see the next two other Mahomes, that we will look at Brady and just say, well, Kraft, Belichick, the culture, the bad division. He's the most productive player. and that it's not a slam. I don't need 30 years.

You don't, but I'm saying if Mahomes stacks three but doesn't get to get to the numbers. So that's my point. Exactly right. Like I already believe that Patrick Mahomes plays the position better than anyone's playing. He doesn't have the accolades to be able to call him the greatest ever. Yes. But he doesn't need seven, in my opinion. That's right.

I think that there is a level of let's be, let's be serious about what we're seeing. And with respect that what Brady did for 25 years, damn near is truly unbelievable, but also recognize. So this is something I did today that I think is instructive. And it's why the chiefs this year are so interesting. because theoretically, they could win a playoff game this year that Mahomes plays poorly. It hasn't happened, but they have a good enough defense that they theoretically could sustain. I don't think they can next week. But against Miami, for instance, if Mahom had played a terrible game, they could have won that game 10-7 because Miami wasn't doing anything.

So I, to me, I don't know if you agree, the quarterback Mount Rushmore of the, you know, Super Bowl era, not counting Unitas and stuff, is, Manning, Montana, Brady, and Mahomes. I think those are the four best quarterbacks. Manning, Montana, Brady, and Mahomes. A lot of people want Elway close. He's looking up at the mountain. He's scaling it. Yeah, I think Elway and Marino are the next two, but to me, those are the four.

Those are the four best quarterbacks that I've seen and their resume. Brady, Montana, Manning Mahomes. Yes. So here's what is so interesting about the four. the three non-mohomans. They all, for their first and for Brady and Montana, their second, no, for both of them, for all three of them, for their first and second rings, in the playoffs, the year they won the ring, had at least one,

and for two of them, multiple downright awful playoff games. and they were able to win despite it. You know what I mean? Brady didn't have an awesome playoff game until his second Super Bowl victory. Peyton, who is as great of a football players I've ever seen, the year they won the ring in the playoffs, he had three touchdown seven picks, never had a 90 passer rating. Montana in the NFC championship game for ring number two had, I think two picks,

zero touchdowns, a 60 rating, but his team shut out the bears. Like, he's allowed zero points. Mahomes has never won a single, like, he's never been able to be bad in the playoffs and they win. Now, he's only ever been. Numbers are insane. And insane without us, the only bad game is the Super Bowl against Tampa, which if you watched it, you know he wasn't the problem, but say he was, he was, say he was bad that game.

They get blown out. And so the, the fact that all. the other guys while they were stacking those first rings were able to have, oh, I don't have it tonight, bail me out is a very unique thing or not a unique thing. That's the almost the same thing. Like this interesting thing about Peyton Manning is both of his playoff runs that ended in a Super Bowl, he was bad, the entirety of both post seasons. His best playoff runs, they just didn't win it. You know what I mean? They, they, they, they, he had, he had way, better years, but the years he actually won the ring.

The 06 goal, he had three touchdown, seven picks for the playoffs. That was at his peak, and they won the championships, so nobody cares. Yeah, he was a little bit, I think people sometimes forget. He was a little bit, as Bill Pony and called him a teeth clencher. He could get a little worked up. Yes. He could get some anxiety, which Mahomes has none of it, which I asked Mitchell Schwartz about on FS1 today.

I said, did you see it early, that Mahomes almost plays backyard football in the biggest games. It's almost like a race car driver whose heartbeat doesn't go up in a corner. Usually, you know, if you go up against the wall, it's more dangerous. And it's like, you know, these race car drivers, like it'd be like your heart, your rate not changing at all during a crash. That's literal. So I don't know if we've talked to this before or not, but during the famous 13 seconds game against the bills two years ago. Yeah. He had one of those whoop things or something that monitors his heart rate. Maybe we've talked about this. His heart rate

only went up when Buffalo had the ball. So when he got the ball, he was calm. But when it was out of his control, he got anxious. When he's like on the sideline, I might not get it back. That's when his heart rate spiked. As soon as it was

okay, it's on me again, he calmed. Yeah, Peyton was that's the, the only reason Peyton Manning is not the greatest quarterback ever is like when I look at athletes basketball and football baseball is a little different but I'm sure the the greatest of the great are awesome in the regular season and somehow get a touch better in the postseason that's Michael LeBron shack yeah and that's damn near the list like if you actually look at the numbers Akeem

there's not many. Isaiah was the greats are able to maintain, Yokic, by the way, are able to maintain the same level. That's what called. Derek Jeter's classic.

I mean, he hit this. He's the same player. It's same player. Kobe, if you look at the numbers, you know what I mean? He doesn't get worse. He's not afraid, but there's a lot. The,

and then guys, well, Peyton was the third category. Get a little worse. Just a little worse. By the way, and people get mad at me, but just look up the numbers, it's also true for Steph.

Steph's just a touch work. You know what I mean? Not just a touch. And so that, when you're talking about the all-time legends, that is an important factor. If Peyton could have just,

he didn't have to get better. Brady got better. You know what I mean? As he got older, at least. Mahomes gets better, which is mind-boggling. If Peyton could have just maintained, he'd be unimpeachable. And listen, I think I still think he's, I still, I think it's Brady, Mahomes, Peyton, Montana in that order.

I think it's one through four. I know a lot of Montana people get bad. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest. SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars.

related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.