The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright Pt.1: Backwards Hats, Stand-Up Comedy, WNBA Will “Arrive” With Caitlin Clark, Cancel Culture

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Colin is joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They start by addressing the backlash to Colin’s  “backwards hat” take from J.J. Reddick and LeBron James (3:00). They talk about the history of the take and why it’s become a running bit, and why it shouldn’t be taken too seriously.  Then they address bad takes, and why “cancel culture” isn’t coming for comedians the way it did a few years ago (12:30), why Jerry Seinfeld’s comments were tone deaf, and they debate how it’s affecting the current era of comedy (19:00).  Finally, Colin explains why Caitlin Clark doesn’t need the media to protect her (27:30) and why the WNBA will finally “arrive” into more mainstream sports culture (34:00) Don’t forget to check back for part two of the conversation with Nick! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We were bringing it. But I might as well start with, I must start with a very serious topic, which is near and dear to me. How do you feel about this, that this is what you're going to be known for? Honest to God. How do you feel about it?

I mean, it's now gotten to, you know, LeBron. And shout out, we'll let you set it up at your podcast. You set it up, but go ahead. Well, LeBron reacted to it and JJ Reddick reacted to it. So this started years ago. I think it was Tony Romo. I was at the other place, ESPN.

And Tony Romo was doing something at the podium. And it's always been about the weekly Wednesday podium when you're a franchise quarterback. I don't care if you're any other position. I don't care about offseason. I care about the quarterback face of the franchise on a Wednesday podium looking like, you know, you're the face of the franchise. Because you are the coach on the field and the highest paid player usually. And so I said something about it. And Steve Spurrier was the college coach at South Carolina.

And in his weekly media session, he literally said in his Southern voice, you know, I was listening to a radio host, Colin Coward, say something here. And I really agreed with him. And, you know, he went on about it. He said, I kind of liked it. And I kind of agreed with it. And so I thought, see, I'm not that crazy. That's not a bad idea.

So then I did it a couple more times. Now, it's gotten a life of its own. Yeah. I think most people now, well, I shouldn't say that. I think a big chunk of people sort of get, I'm being theatrical and my outrage is somewhat manufactured. I don't love it. But it comes from a real opinion.

Yeah, yeah. You have, the further along it's gone, the more, I don't want to say ridiculous, but you, it's become a thing, which I'm totally here for. But the, and we've talked to this once before, and I'm going to reiterate the point and actually tie it back to today's thing, which is, even if people vehemently disagree with you on the specifics of backwards hat or forwards hat, everyone if they're being honest should be able to admit, we all have a backwards hat thing. That makes us judge people. Like there is there. So it can be as simple as, oh, that person who I thought was like a big time, you know, power broker. Oh, he doesn't match his belt to his shoes.

Like, oh, he's not as sophisticated as I thought. Or again, I'm just making that up. So here's what I found so funny about today. I don't really give a shit that JJ Reddick was wearing a backwards hat at all. You know what I, you know what happened today, though, that gave me another piece of evidence that said, I would not hire JJ Redick right now to be the head coach of Los Angeles Lakers. That he responded to the clip. That to me was far more damning than his hat.

It's like, buddy, you can't. Three days ago I saw you on the internet arguing with a San Francisco radio. producer, now you're watching clips of Howard talking about you, L-O-Ling it. Like, I just, I don't think you're going to go from that level of internet engagement, maybe even searching your own name, all that stuff that people do, by the way, and I'm not judging them for it, but I don't think it'd be healthy to do as the head coach of Los Angeles Lakers. And I don't think you'd turn it off in a week. So I don't care about the hat. I care that he reacted to the clip.

Like, I really do. And by the way, I wouldn't care at all if it was like a broadcaster. Like, just in his current job, react to whatever you want. But a different job we're talking about now, which, again, I don't think you would care about the backward tat if it's just he's the NBA announcer. But if it's like, oh, you're going to be the head coach of my team. So I get it. I actually get it.

Well, I mean, if you don't think appearance matters, your daughter's on the emergency table in a hospital and a surgeon. came in in a suit and they put his white or a blue robe over it or a backwards hat. What would you prefer? Or your pilot on a plane came in or he had his hat backwards, which would you prefer a turbulent night? Well, and so, and I also think, you know, LeBron responded with two pictures. And I wasn't sure who the first guy was. because the second guy's Jason Kidd.

And it's like, oh, he's done a great job. And it's like, yeah, but Jason Kidd also. And JJ has this going for him as well. Like, you know, former athlete. Former athlete turned coaches a little different, which is where I think JJ probably has more of a, you know, margin for error here. But the other guy was like, who is that?

And then we figured it out. It's the guy who owns the jazz. Well, at some point, you like, you succeed out of, happy. Now all of a sudden, you never have to wear a suit. Like, I don't know if you watched the show Billions, but the main, I know it's fictional, but the main character Bobby Axelrod, who was the billionaire, he'd go to work. Everyone's wearing a suit. He's wearing a Metallica t-shirt because it's like, ah, I own the place I kind of can. Like, yes,

there is that element to it. But, um, but I love it. I think it is my, I mean, it is so funny that four times a year, I know, I'm like, oh, well, half of Colin's show is taking care of for no reason. And because there's always new people in the ecosystem, there are people who this is their first experience with you and backwards hat. And so they don't get any of, again, not that it's a joke, but that this has been a 20 year thing.

And those people replying are the best. They're like, this guy, you got, I mean, it is the best. And you don't have to explain the joke. Just let them go. It's the best. Yeah. It's, you know, I, as you know, I love football. I try never to take myself seriously. I think I laugh at myself all the time, but I do take my job seriously. But it is something now that's you know, it's got a life of its own. It didn't bother me that JJ Reddick responded because JJ was an outrage by it. He was laughing at it. Yes. Steve Kerr, before he became big,

was a hilariously funny, whip smart analyst. And, you know, a couple of years. years later, or a year later, he transitions from being kind of funny with Mike Breen to being a GM, the most serious job in the world. So I think, I think JJ's a really bright guy. And it doesn't bother me that people respond. But I do like, you know, I, I think if JJ walked up to me in a story, he'd be like, and I'd say the same thing, I'd be like, I really, I think you're really bright. I really like your work. And I think he'd probably laugh to. And this, to me, you know, I think about this all the time, is that my bones are, I think, a little bit in like breaking an occasional story, although I know what I am now. I'm a generalist. But I do think whether it's Nick Wright,

Stephen A. Smith, me, McAfee, whoever it is, Tony and Mike, you know, Wilbaum, Cornheiser, whoever it is shows should be a bit whimsical and fun. It is sports. Like, I don't watch outside of right near the election a lot of political coverage, because I, I think it's so exhausting and heavy and kind of mean-spirited. So I think it's, oh, I always think it's okay. Like your show, you do, you do, I wouldn't call them gabs, but you do, not gags, but you do, we do a lot of ridiculous things on the front end and back end of what I consider smart analysis. That's right.

Like today, we had you, you thankful, by the way, thank you for doing it. Wilde was out sick. So like the intro, we do next tiers, which is, you know, some people call them power rankings. We do different things. What, you know, ours is a little different flavor to it. But we're not reinventing the wheel here. It's ordering teams. But on the front end of it, we have this whole giant introduction about how big of a deal it is.

And Wilds couldn't do it. So we had you, the face of the network, come in just to do the intro and it's out. And then it's real analysis and then it's back to ridiculousness. I do think it's important in sports. to somebody else said this, by the way. This is not my thought, but they were smart. I wish I could give them credit. It is important to take sports seriously, but not yourself seriously.

That's right. Like, you got to give the audience. You can't act like the games don't matter because the people who are watching really care. I care. Like the games, you can't, but you can't take yourself. Like one thing that I appreciate about the way you do it is, You have no loyalty to a previous opinion. You're like, I've got new, I don't give you.

I got new information. I changed my mind. And people will get mad. They'll be like, but you can't. It's like, well, I just did. Screw you. What are you going to do about it? And so, like, I'm not going to act like what I said previously is gospel if I get new

information on a thing. And so, you know, I think some people have trouble. You know what I mean? Either taking it like it is life and death or just making a job. joke out of the whole thing, kind of trying to straddle that line. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you know, one of my favorite sayings I once heard in life. I really, I try to live by it. Outline your life in pencil, not pen. Shit changes when you get new information. Stockbrokers, doctors, pilots, comedians, like something culturally, some things you can talk about today and then not tomorrow.

That's right. Right. Like, comedians now, oh, I can't use that. term, that sentence, that word. Outline your comedy in pencil. You may have to shift because of some cultural changes. And again, if you're able to do that in life, you don't get angry much. You don't have a lot of grievance. I hear whenever I hear people say, you can't joke about this anymore. All right, change three words.

Who cares? I'm glad you said that. I thought Seinfeld's thing was such a cop-out. And it was so weird coming from him because, buddy, the co-creator of your show, Larry David, just finished a 20-year run of, I think, the funniest show ever that made every inappropriate,

risque, whether it was about race, sex, gender, anything. That joke there was, and it had never been more popular. You know what I mean? The idea that you, that all, All of a sudden, oh, man, you can't make good content because the woke mob is going to cancel you. It's just not true. And I think it's a great example.

Oh, VEP was even more inappropriate. Yes. And so that's- Right. That's my point. So, like, Julia Leif Seinfeld goes and does VEP. Larry Leaves Seinfeld goes and does curb. Two of the most inappropriate, if you will, mainstream shows ever. They get between them 20 seasons, a million Emmys, wildly popular.

And then it's like, oh, you can't do it. Everyone, like, I don't, I think that's a cop out. I think it's a cop out. Be funny. Like the thing is, and we've talked about this before, I think, and I think it's a good lesson for broadcasters, particularly talk radio guys, because especially local talk radio, there is, you know, some train of thought, risk-a stuff,

whatever it is. But the rule's always been the same man. The riskier the joke, the funnier it better be. There is all, like, I, you know, a decade ago, uh, before he had, you know, some run-ins and, you know, kind of went out of the mainstream. Louis C.K. at the peak of his powers at on one of his specials, ends a special. I'm pretty sure, like, it's back to back to back punchlines of like kids dying because of a peanut allergy, slavery and something else.

And every joke kills. And it's like, okay, he actually can make fun of those things because the jokes work. What you can't do is make a totally insensitive or risque joke that is lowest common denominator

not funny. So like, yeah, you can still joke about really anything you want. You better just have the skill to pull it off. And if you don't, then maybe color between the lines we're going to get in trouble. But the best of the best can still say whatever they, basically whatever they want to say,

and the audience responds according, in my opinion. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

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Thank you for. incentives. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think John Mullaney's the funniest stand-up I've ever seen in my life. I think Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy, when I first saw them, I thought that's the funniest thing I've ever seen. And then there's a lot of like Chris Rocks and a lot of great Chappelle's my favorite ever. I just discovered John Mullaney six months ago.

I didn't know who he was. I guess I missed all that stuff. My wife flew me to Chicago to get seats A1 and two at the United Center to watch Malaney. She knows how much I love him. He absolutely killed. I've now seen all of his stuff. He's right now, like as we're recording this, doing a week of shows in L.A.

and he's brilliant. So, like, I was late to the party with him. He's absolutely great. By the way, good seats at a comedy show are a risky proposition, man, because you always risk about becoming a part of the act. Like, I guess with a special, it's different. You know what I mean? They're recording it.

But my wife and I go to a lot of, you know, one of the best things about New York City is, There's great live comedy every night. So she and I go a lot. And sometimes when we get there, the folks there know me. You know, I mean, I'm not trying to sound like an asshole, but sometimes they're like, oh, they're like, oh, do you want seats up front? I'm like, no. Do not like seats up front.

Don't want to become a part of the act because also particularly just, you know, getting started stand-up comics, there's, it's, there is no lower-hanging fruit than white guy, hot black girl. How long y'all been together? Oh, what's your story? Like, nope, not in. to it. I am sitting in the back and watching. I am not going to become a part of this show, but I love doing it. I love going. Yeah. David Spade will call me once a year and say, hey, I'm at the comedy store in Hermosa. You want to get tickets. And I'm always like, hey, if I see it, I don't, I'll be behind the pole in the back. Exactly right. Exactly.

Right. I want to be seen. No, I think I disagreed with Seinfeld on that. And, and I think Veep, Curbier enthusiasm, David Chappelle. I mean, that doesn't mean you won't get pushback on a transgender joke. You're going to get pushback on it. But Chappelle delivers at such a high level.

By the way, if it wasn't for his inappropriate personal behavior, Louis C.K. would still be a star. Right, that's the thing. So that's what's really bothered me. If we may, I don't know, we can... Yeah, take your time.

No, I just... I don't, I think there are a few instances and maybe a few years ago it was really at a fever pitch in a way that was brief and subsided. But I think there was, there has since been a conflation of cancellation and consequence. Like, I think that Louis C.K. did, it seems like, some really inappropriate stuff and paid some consequences.

That is not, oh, made a joke people didn't like and now they're pulling his stuff. The dude is a great actor. Kevin Spacey alleged to do, I've done some really inappropriate stuff and faced consequences. That is not

cancellation. That is a tale as old as time, which is you get caught doing illegal or nasty shit. You might get in trouble. cancelation is would have been if Chappelle, they were like, you're out. But they, it's not what happened. Chappelle told, you had told some jokes at the expense of the transgender community. Then I think got upset at how it was represented.

So doubled and tripled down. And by the way, still has specials. Still's on Netflix. So you know what I mean? There, there was pushback and there were certain people. And that's, you know what's also? always been allowed, I don't like you anymore because of something you said, I'm not watching you. And in fact, I'm going to tell my friends not to watch you. That's also not being canceled.

That is just how human beings work. I saw this play. It sucked. That's not canceling the play. That's saying you didn't like it. And so I'm not going to act as if there wasn't a fever pitch at one point in time. Like, I get this person out, get that person out. But that was brief and subsided. But there should be consequences for bad behavior. And so I don't, I thought, I think that there was a, a overstatement of how many people get canceled for this, that, or the third. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I didn't actually see that in my lived experiences. Yeah. And I think artists realize actors, musicians, comedians, I think if you're not stepping in it occasionally or, or missing, then you're not expanding your art. Like, I'm, I'm not an artist, but I do think I go with a blank page for three hours, 60 hours a month live, unscripted.

And if I step into it twice a year, okay, like, all right. It's exactly how I feel. Yeah, like my takeaway has always been, I mean, I just think about this. So I just tried to watch the Seinfeld movie, liked about the first 15 minutes. You had all these really smart comedians. Was this Pop-Tart or whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like Gaffigan and Seinfeld and Man, I can't.

Sebastian Menacowosco. Oh, Manascollo, yep. Yeah, yeah. And just really, really talented people. They had a year to work on this. It was not good. So I'm not going to lose sleep if I have a bad segment. Right.

And they had 60 people writing for the movie, right? So my take, and Will Ferrell, who's brilliant, Anchorman, Elth, has had bomb after bomb. It doesn't matter. So my takeaway is if you are a comedian, a writer, an artist, if you don't have a bad concert, if you're not expanding your art. A comedian, Richard Pryor, probably had horrible shows and was mean-spirited. That's why he's viewed as the most brilliant comedian ever.

So I think that's what worries me when you have an avalanche and artists. And I think there was a really small window in that. I think there was. No, I think there was. I'm not going to act like it didn't exist. and I do think there was a thirst. I think there all of a sudden was a time where folks who had felt like they never had real power, all of a sudden had it, and seemed to be like out for scouts. Like what you know what I mean?

And retro, like, Chappelle did a whole thing where he's like talking about the audience, talking about the audience, like trying to go back in his archives to find something he said. And no, so I'm not going to act like it never happened. But that, not only did it subside, I think now it's swung in the other direction where any type of like, it's common courtesy, like maybe don't use that word. They're like, you woke pussy. Like what it's like, okay. Like, I don't know, man. Like it just seems like it's just polite.

Like I'm not. And so I just, I don't think we were that the time. of where, you know, the, you say the wrong, the wrong word accidentally. And it's like, well, you lost your job. This. And I'll use, I think a good example of it is a guy I've known for a long time, not well, but I've known him. I'm sure you know him too.

Greg Doyle, who had the really, the writer for at least no of him, had the unfortunate and awkward moment at the Caitlin Clark Press conference. And did he have consequences yet? It turns out he's been suspended two weeks. weeks. Do those feel a little harsh to me? Sure. But did he lose his job? Did he, you know what I mean? Was it was a, and to me, that was honestly less about like a PC thing and more about the newspaper, wanting to make sure it maintains its relationship with the team that is now the hot team in town because they got Caitlin Clark and showing they take it seriously. Like, I just think,

I don't have, I don't go on the air worried. Like, oh boy, if I say the wrong thing here, it's going to be, you know, there's, they're going to be at the gates demanding that I'm, that I'm run out of media. Like I just, and I'm live, like you, I'm live every day. Yeah. Can I, let me throw something at you with Caitlin Clark. It's not really a pet pee, but it's something the media does with regularity is that they protect people who don't need protecting.

and it actually, I think it's disrespectful. It's okay to, I'll give you two. It's okay to say Aunt Edwards reminds you me of MJ. He doesn't need protecting. He leans into it, the shrug. Stop. I wouldn't have suspended Greg Doyle, although I thought it was really weird.

It was weird, but it's one of those things. Ask yourself this. Yeah, go ahead. If her name was Kevin. Clark. Right. Would we have suspended him? No.

And so that, no. Caitlin doesn't need our protection. She is a strong, defiant, tough. I mean, watch her in games.

She is tough. So I, so I, the, on the Greg thing, like, I also, I think my reaction to that was

colored by the fact that I do know Greg. And I know like he's a well-meaning, kind of awkward. Like, you know what I mean? If you've been around him, you can see,

oh, that wasn't spoke. wasn't trying to be creepy. He's just, I think, well-meaning, but a little awkward at times. And that's what came across. That's what I thought. I know him a little. I thought the same thing.

But if you had never met him, you might be like, what the hell is wrong? You know what I mean? Who is this guy? So there's the context of it. I, so with Caitlin, I think it's happened in a different way as far as protecting when she didn't need protecting. The world, you know, when it, I shouldn't say the world. a big portion of the population really turned on Angel Reese

in last year's title game because she taunted Caitlin and there and that there was now there was a lot of racial dynamics there she's big she's bigger than Caitlin she's black it's a lot of things led to Angel Reese being the villain but the fact of the matter is Caitlin Clark was not bothered by it because Caitlin Clark's a badass and was like you know what I'll

do it back to you and I'll get you back. But there was some like, you know, because she was a woman, because she was a white woman, there were a lot of things where people were trying to, you know, put on the capes and rush to go save her when she didn't need the saving. Flatly didn't need the saving. Like, and so I, yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a, go ahead. I think the media is well-meaning with Caitlin. But it is a very regular occurrence of protecting people who don't need to be protecting. And the ultimate respect for women's athletes is that Serena is Roger Federer's equal emotionally and in her sport. She's his equal. We don't protect Roger. Serena's remarkable. She's the greatest tennis player I've ever seen. She's the most

dominant tennis player. I mean, I've been watching since Chris Everett, Billy Jean King. I've never seen man or woman. There's no question. Not even close. That's right. And that is, you know, so when we, when during the NCAA tournament, all of a sudden the women's conversation turned to the goat of women's sports in a weird, or the goat of women's tennis, in a weird way, I was like, this is a profound moment in the trajectory of women's sports, because it is now popular enough that we are going to have the dumbest conversations about it. You know what I mean? Like, the, the, who's the goat of this is the dumbest? But it is also.

gets people riled up, people have opinions. And in my whole career leading up to that, we would only be talking about women's sports in such like a bespoke way. It wouldn't be that. But now it's just like sports. Like, hey, is she the best? Is she going to suck as a rookie?

Like, it's just regular, stupid sports talk. Like, I think that what I'm really interested, now I happen to think Caitlin is going to immediately be awesome in the WMB. Yeah, same. If she's not, I think it will be patronizing and insulting if people don't rip her. I know that sounds ridiculous. But if you come into the, like, if you, in men's sports, if you are this supernova and you come in

supernova and you come in and fall flat, nobody's putting nobody's treating you like a high school Apply. Like, you know, they are, and so there is a level of like, this sounds silly, but equality of criticism that I think that, that I do think now is going to come to the WMBA. Like, I do, I don't, I don't think it's going to be a direct straight, linear growth, but I do think they now have enough star power that it is going to be a topic. Like, I think Caitlin, how well she does, is going to be on our show. Isn't it the ultimate sign of respect?

They say that's about people in Boston. When a Boston guy pitches your shit, you're part of the club. Yes, that's right. Exactly right. No, that's right. When you don't, and I think this is if we can, you know, again, meander further. I think this is probably something, I don't know this, obviously, but I'm a smart guy. I bet it's true.

I think it's probably something women outside of sports deal with as a hurdle to their growth in male dominated businesses in executive spaces, which is the guys feel comfortable going out for drinks and busting chops with the other guys, which creates a camaraderie and a relationship and a, you know what I mean, a kinship outside of work. And I'm sure there's a lot of women like, man, I get left out of that because, you know, they're trying to be polite or, you know, whatever it is. But it actually prevents my ability to really be fully included and to potentially move up the way people move up through relationships. Yeah, I think you use the word patronizing. I think the WNBA will arrive.

I mean, it only had 700,000 people watch the WNBA finals. That's not as good as the UFL. It will arrive this year. Yep. And it will arrive because the discussions will be authentic and critical, not flowery and protective. And I'm looking forward to it. I've said this.

I think I told my audience this today is I always think fewer games is better. And I don't love the NFL going to 17 games and very quickly 18. But I think they will get a second by week. which is fair and the players will love. But here's how I view it. So July and August are dead. That's the vacation time for us. So the football season now will be Labor Day to President's weekend.

We'll do a week talking about it. We'll take a vacation all come back on March 3rd into March Madness and Free Agency quickly into the draft, into the NBA playoffs. So my take is, if you. You can give me, if the WNBA becomes a topic, and I think it will be with Caitlin Clark, you're expanding my football. I now get a new topic. So I'm rooting for Caitlin Clark because selfishly, if I get 8 to 12 on slow days or days I have opening, not in the middle of the NFL season, you're giving me Caitlin Clark topics.

I try to get Candace Parker on my show today. I am for it. The volume. Thanks for listening to Part 1 of the conversation with Nick. Don't forget to check back for part two. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and, friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced

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It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.