The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright: Tatum Was “Infuriating” In Game 2, Why Draymond Green “Gets Away” With Fouls, Cowboys Can’t Save George Pickens

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They start with the first American ever being named Pope and Colin asks Nick for his “Pope power rankings” (4:00), why it’s incredibly exciting to have an American pope (7:15), and why even agnostic people can lean on faith in a higher power during difficult times (9:00). Colin calls out Nick for looking like the Shroud of Turin, and they highlight their doppelgangers (15:30). They pivot to the NBA and Colin’s right/wrong takes on Jayson Tatum and the Celtics (28:00), why it would be really great for the league if the Knicks won the series (34:00), and why the underdogs have been winning (36:00). Nick provides a lengthy professional poker analogy to explain what’s happening to the Celtics and their 3 point shooting (38:00) and Colin compares them to the Miami Dolphins (45:00). They discuss why Draymond Green is given more leeway on technical fouls and physical play than any player ever, but also highlight his incredible value as a defender (54:00). They compare Draymond’s self awareness about the type of player he is to Shedeur Sanders lack of it. They argue Shedeur was never given an honest evaluation and point to the transactional nature of sports journalism as part of the reason for it (1:10:00). Finally, they pour cold water on the idea of the Dallas Cowboys being the team to make it “work” with George Pickens (1:21:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Terms apply. Again, create the account. The redeem code, C-O-L-I-N, 20 bucks off. Download the GameTime app today. Last minute, tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. All right, Nick Wright, we haven't talked in a while. I mean, I think the important thing to start with is the first American Pope. And I've got a question to you, because you're really good with rankings.

Is there a power rankings for Pope? How do you... Well, in my lifetime, John Paul II. I just feel like he was an all-timer. I also remember, because I grew up Catholic. Yeah. I remember it was a big deal. So I'm going to get this wrong, but there was some, maybe something happened where St. Patrick's Day maybe fell on a Friday during Lent.

There was something where it's like, oh, man, a bunch of Catholics want to eat meat this day, but it's a Friday, like a Friday, during Lint when you're only supposed to have fish. I just remember that he was like, I talked to God and this one time it's okay. And I was like, that guy's awesome. I was like, that's pretty sick. All right, he audibled. Again, I never know anything that I read on the internet these days,

but if it's true that this is our first ever Pope to have a spicy Twitter presence, I like that. I also do think that in the midst of this Knicks run, the fact that the Pope went to Villanova has to be a good sign. Well, I mean, right there, you know he's a culture guy. I mean, everybody that goes to Villanova is part of some sort of cool culture. I also, I got to tell you, I have probably over the last decade, maybe, you know,

I don't want to say I've become less patriotic, but maybe that's what it is. I'm not sure. it's like I've gotten less revved up. I feel like for most of us, people my age, were at like peak patriotism post 9-11. Like, do we need to sign up for the military? Like, I didn't get American flag tattoo, and then maybe it's just waned slightly since then.

I do have to say, when I heard them say American Pope, I was like, that is awesome. I was like, I didn't even know we were eligible. Like, for some reason, I thought, I was like, I didn't even know that was on the board. This guy went to Chicago, born in Chicago, went to Nova, now he's the Pope? That's pretty sick.

Well, you know, Canada didn't have a say. They're pissed off of us. Yeah, I mean, also, then I was reading more again. This is going to, I, I now feel like the people on Twitter I hate who are just, if you check their timeline over the last six years,

they've been an expert on everything. Right. From communicable diseases to election standards, to tariffs, to inflation. They just know everything about everything. So I don't claim to know a lot about this at all. But I did read in the bio. I'm like, hold on.

He got his big promotion was he got to recommend who got to be a cardinal and who didn't. And then this, the new pope is voted on by the Cardinals. So at least in my world, I'm like, well, all the guys voting kind of owe their jobs to him. He should have been way better than a hundred to one betting favor, like dog. Like he had an inside track. All these guys got to like him. So I think it's pretty cool. I'm excited for it.

No, I was actually into it today. And somebody on the staff had said, all these people showing up. And I said, guys, you have to remember, if you're a devout Catholic, I mean, this is, people get excited when the Patriots have a new coach. You don't think they're going to get excited for a new pope? Oh, yeah. I do think that particularly, the, the, The crowd is stunning and how emotional and moving it is for people. Remarkable.

And I think folks that aren't devoutly religious, it oddly, oddly, the best comp might be, like, the way we get worked up about, like, if your team wins a championship, like, we'll go to the parade. And it's not. I'm agnostic, and it was emotional to me. It's moving. seeing and I also do, I also think it's an interesting reminder again. As someone who's raised Catholic did, you know, First Communion, all that stuff. Hell, that's odd. Went to Catholic school until fifth grade.

It is a reminder of the, you know, when you see like how powerful the Catholic Church is, particularly in like Latin America and you see the different flags. And it is, I think it is. is a cool special thing. And I mean, there was not to get too like into, you know, world history, but there have been large stretches of human history when the most powerful person in the world was the Pope. Well, you know what I mean? Where that was the high, essentially the highest office in the land. Right. I don't know if that is necessarily still the case, but it is still, it's a heck of a thing. And I feel honestly in my, over the last.

six to seven years is that I think a lot of people look at religion for a grounding mechanism. You know, they don't necessarily read the Bible every day, but if they go through a crisis, they lose somebody in their family, it grounds them. It's a foundational, structural piece of their life. And I do think, you know, I told my wife this about a year ago. I said, people keep saying we're becoming less religious. I said, watch with AI. A.I. a lot of people don't know where it's going. You're going to be replaced. And I said, people are going to look for security and to get their feet on the ground.

The more fluidity and the more change in the world, the more people seek structure, almost as if when we're in wartime, ice cream sales go up. Comfort food goes up. Well, AI, you know, what's happening in the world with tech, but AI especially, I mean, there are people making predictions that, you know, 30% of jobs will be eliminated. I think during times like that, we have an interesting way as human beings to seeking the really important things, which is family, love, security, home, I think will become less mobile as a nation. People will feel disjointed if, you know, they're losing jobs. and, you know, they feel a sense of what's real and what's not and robots.

And I really do. I think religion, and I'm, again, I say this to somebody that's not religious, I think religion is making a bit of a comeback. Religion making a bit of a comeback. I do. I love that. So I have a lot of thoughts on this because so I, you know, this is the saying there's no atheist in a foxhole, right?

So, like, that is, that is to me, like, somewhat objectively true. So I'll just tell a anecdote from my personal life, or a couple, actually. So nine years ago, gosh, I think it was nine years ago. I got a call from one of my dad's friends. Yeah. that and it was one of those things where I'm like the moment I saw the name on the phone I was like well this had I don't know how I just like this is bad like this guy wouldn't call me and it's a night and you know what I mean the moment I got the call and he my dad had had a medical event and he and it

was out of nowhere and he said hey uh Nikki you got to come to the hospital and I said I'm like okay is my dad okay and he said, I don't know. And it was about a 15 minute drive from my apartment. This is when I was still in, so I'm set, I got it wrong. It wasn't nine years ago. I was still living in Kansas City. So 15 years ago, 12 years ago, whatever, maybe 12, 13 years ago. And, uh, and on the way to the hospital, I guess I was praying. I was, you know what I mean? I was, I was, I was talking to some, I was basically saying, like, please let my dad be okay. Like I, you know, I was doing a thing that a lot of people have done in those spots, which is like you're like making deals.

Yeah. Like if you let my dad be okay, all whatever. And I should have maybe led with this. My dad was, walked out of the hospital a day and a half later and is, you know, still with us now and doing great and still work and everything. So he was fine. But in that moment, I was like, you know, I've always said I'm, as an adult, I've always said I'm agnostic. but I sure didn't feel it in the then, like in that, and then

I'll tell one other much more contemporary, which is we had a, it's coming up on a year here in a couple months, we had a very, very close young family friend passed suddenly. It's really like the worst type of thing, seemingly totally healthy and just brain aneurysm, is done. And it was, I was very close with this person, but this was one of my wife's two best

friends in the entire world. And my wife is religious. And that is something that as a family, like, I don't think we're, we're not over it. And I think we're still, we're with her mother day before yesterday. Like, we're still kind of all processing it. But I think the only thing that is allowed my wife that allowed my wife to not like really break from it is her faith. Yeah. Is the fact that she believes like they're, you know, there, she still feels like she not talks to. I don't want to speak for her, but like can feel. Yeah.

Her friend Ashley and a presence and like that. And so all of that. And I found myself a little envious almost that like, wow. that is that's a pitch I don't have right is you know what I mean like I I I think that's really cool and also I see the real utility in it and I obviously and then I'll stop work every day with an incredibly religious person and brew and I think I've I've said to anyone who whenever people ask me about brew and then like if we actually have a real conversation always say he to me is the embodiment of what in an ideal world a religious person is,

which is never preachy, I've never seen him be judgmental, but always carries himself, even as a grown man, as if like, hey, I don't want to disappoint. Like, I have a standard to uphold. and I think it's for him the standard of the Lord and wants to help people. Yeah. And I find it so, I find it really, really endearing. Yeah. And so, yeah, the, I obviously didn't know we were going to talk about this,

but I love talking about this. I love talking about random stuff with you. And so that is, those are kind of my, my Pope takes. And there is an argument to be made as I, as you look at the camera, there is an argument to be made that I and I believe this. There's about a 6% chance. You are the shroud of Turin. You do have, there is like, it's somewhere between 6% and 8%.

So I got to, so I have to tell you something and maybe they can make this breakout video for social. And I wish, and maybe one of the producers can text it to you so you can say. see it. So there was a Star Wars character, that a Star Wars cartoon, and I tweeted about it at the time. It's, I, I'm not a Star Wars fan, so I can't remember it. But it would not be that hard to find. They made a Star Wars cartoon about a younger version of a famous older character. And that character, Colin, his likeness, was me. It was so me that. I'm, this part's going to be embarrassing. I did briefly talk to a lawyer like, hey, is this actionable if Disney is making a billion dollar thing?

And that's my face. It was unmistakably. Yeah, I'm watching it. It's right here. That, yes, that right there. So that, so that, that's a few years ago. There is a new, there is a new. there is a new movie out.

I've seen that. It's a Jesus movie. It's another cartoon. I don't know if they base the cartoon, the likeness of Jesus off that character or off me. But when I tell you, and see if the producers can send this to you, when I tell you that in the new Jesus cartoon movie that came out two months ago, if you didn't know anything and you just got a still image of it,

you would say, oh, someone drew a cartoon picture of Nick. And it is stunning that because I've now grown my hair and I guess the beard, and I guess in some depictions, Jesus must have a weird nose, that it, that there is that resemblance to how he is portrayed in modern media, and I'll tell you one funny story. I was at a casino in Paris, and I'm walking down the stairs. And it's a fancy casino, like with a dress code, like you've got to wear a suit or a tucks, whatever it is. And I'm walking down the stairs.

And one of the security is like, I know you. and I have a moment where I'm like, this is awesome. I'm like, we're at a highfalutin casino in Paris, and I'm out here getting recognized, like in my head. I'm like, this is sweet. This guy's got a thick accent. I don't even know how much English he speaks, and he watches first things first.

And I'm like, oh, I'm like, yeah, I do sports TV. And he's like, no, that's not it. And then he starts laughing. He's like, Jesus, that's where I know you from. It was just making fun of me. And I thought he was a viewer, but he was just making fun of me because of the hair. Yeah, but so that's that's that. See, the only likeness I've ever had in my life, and it was bizarre.

Here is, by the way, that new picture of you. Yeah, that, yes. Yeah, that one. That's, they got to do it. There's even a better one. but that's the movie. I mean, come on. Like, what's happening here?

So our guys can also find, guys, find the picture of the Swiss World Cup goalie. I am not joking. It lasted for a year. I literally went online to see if there, it was like, is there family heritage? Because a lot of people will send me stuff. It was, it looked like me at 30. six years old. Exactly. So I got, so what'll surprise people that didn't know me when I first started with you almost, God, now it's been almost 10 years, believe it or not, I used to have

basically a shaved head. Yeah. And at that time, I also lived in Texas and I'm Italian. So when I tan, like my complexion gets kind of like more of like a olive. Yeah, you're Sicilian almost. Yeah. Right. So I got, and I used to not have the beard, just a goatee and a shaved head. I got Shaka Smart, the basketball coach, all the time. I got Shaka Smart, and then I got, there was an Ole Miss basketball player that everyone hated, that again, the producers could really put this together. Marshall Henderson.

I got Marshall Henderson and Shaka Smart a lot. But the thing is, the reason I, I, I, I get a lot is the same reason Scott Van Pelt gets a lot. Scott Van Pelt, it's like, shit, got bald guy glasses. They think it looks like Scott Van Pelt. For me, it's does your fit, is there anyone in the world who has a like a roller coaster nose and your facial hair and then they'll say I look like them? So I, there's a bunch of look likes.

I also still to this day sometimes, people see me and ask, and this one is not complimentary. because I get a bunch of not-companry ones. I get Manu Genobley. There was a guy named Frank Rebery, who was a French soccer player, who had a giant facial scar, and they still thought it was me. But Tom Green. Tom Green, again, I get a lot of bad ones. I'm just going to tell you, I've never,

there's never been like a traditionally handsome man that people are like, is that you? It's always someone that has what you would call some, unique facial features that they think I look like. Yeah, I don't get a lot of George Clooney either, pal, so we're even on that. The NBA 82 game grind is done. Now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs, love them.

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So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title. for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So I can't believe you're not starting with a Tatum victory lap. Okay. I can't believe it.

Well, okay. So there's two things where I don't think about this a lot. But I did think about it with Baker Mayfield is that because I'm older and I know I'm talking about younger athletes, I don't like to pick on them. And so I don't think people realize this. I was rooting for Baker Mayfield to eventually grow up and be great. And he has become that. And that makes me actually happy. Fans tend to think that it really bothers me when I'm wrong.

You know me well and it doesn't, you know this. Definitely not true. Yeah, as my wife said, I think you almost root to be really wrong occasionally. So I think that's not what gets me worked up. The things I think about are being too hard on young people, and I think about this a lot. So Westbrooks, this revelation that Westbrook can shoot threes is I've been, I've made sure it makes every show. Baker's emergence. And so here's funny.

I defended Tatum after game one. Yeah, and here's what I said. Here's my take. He is so collaborative. that he constantly beats people off the dribble. But collaborative Jason Tatum then pulls back and takes a worse shot. Because ingrained in this culture, three at all costs. It's ingrained.

Danny Aange, Brad Stevens, it's who they draft. It's who they acquire. It's who they trade for. And so Kobe and Michael would have fought that shit. regularly. He doesn't do that. He's a good kid. And so I defended him and I said, I've seen him beat people off the dribble and then pull back and shoot an off balance three. They're in his head. But so I'm defending him. And then in game two, he infuriated me. Two of his last three shots were fallaways. But I, and so,

I had to go back and just say today. Basically, I said, Jalen Brunson is work boots, and Jason Tatum is French leather loafers. If it's drizzly, you're best not to wear him. He's not built. He's not built for really intense, resilient moments. He's not. He literally, when he dumped it with 18 seconds left, you and I had the same reaction. Whoa.

We should not have that reaction. So agreed. So I have a, there's, there's two things that I want to talk about here. The first one is just a question for you because I don't, and this I think the audience is curious about. Did you, when you did the few months ago, close your eyes and think of magic, think of Michael, think of LeBron, think of Tatum. I know how, I know you're, you know, kind of your process. So I know that that I can kind of tell because I've been listening to you my whole adult life, but also because I now know you, I can I can tell when something is totally off the cuff or if that was like kind of the prepared rant that was then going to go somewhere. So I know you like you knew what you were going to say.

Did you have any idea when you did that? Did you think, oh, this is going to stick and resonate? because I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday, all over Twitter, when that game ends, people were just sending a screenshot of you with your eyes closed in that segment.

And then today, people who I'm pretty sure, not I'm pretty sure, I know it because they captioned the tweet with basically some of the lines of, I don't fucking like this guy, but he nailed this. Like, did you have, when you finished that or when you did that, did you feel like, oh, okay, everyone's going to get it? Or was, did it just kind of end up being a happy accident?

And then I have a second. I think that was just a very lucky, happy accident. So, as you know, I write notes down to remind me during a show. I don't do a script, but I, I, I, yellow, if somebody has a funny line, or if I think of something, I'll write it down. So I'm not necessarily sure. Outside of my opening rant, where I have lots of notes, it's, I get really dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. The start of my show, I usually have an absolute direction on where I'm going. So I'm not sure. And I never, ever, I have terrible instincts on what

pops and what doesn't. All these years, I have no idea. Stuff I think's brilliant. It's Crickets. So that's that's kind of what I thought. What I kind of thought was this is, this was planned. Like Colin knew where he was going, but it wasn't like this is going to cut through everything. But for some reason, not for some reason, I think it's because it was a point that when you did it, a lot of people were like, holy shit, he's right. Like I don't think there's nothing I can think of. So there's that. The other point, you and I today, right around the exact same time. It's so funny, because I'm doing my podcast for the volume right around the time your show goes on the air. So without knowing what you were going to say, and you obviously without knowing what I was going to say,

you and I made a very similar point, which is, for the sake of the sport, it's really important. the Knicks pull this all. Absolutely. Because we are in such a copycat sports world that, and by the way, it will probably be an overreaction. The way the Celtics play is probably the right way to play, and probably so much so that the league just needs to change some rules like baseball did in a lot of different ways to stem the tide. However,

I don't think the league is in a hurry to make massive rule changes. And I also think that if the Celtics get clocked by a team that couldn't beat a good team all year, and it's because they averaged 53s a game and just went cold, that a bunch of teams will just get cold feet and be like, screw that. Go down on the block. Let's go get some muscle. Take some midrangers. And the league is more interesting that way.

Okay, so I want to throw something at you. I think you'll really like this. And I talked about this today. I said, why are we seeing so many underdogs win? Home teams lose. Why are there so many upsets? Yeah. Because of two things.

The use, the heavy use of three ball and analytics simultaneously as the NBA decides, we're going to make these the most physical playoffs ever. And so what has happened is the finesse teams. You know, the Warriors pre-Jimmy Butler didn't get to the line. The Celtics never get to the line. The finesse teams, the pretty teams, the teams that during a regular season walk into your arena, you're tired, they're not. They're young, deep, and can shoot.

Blow your doors off. Oklahoma City can do this. And then the league goes, hey, little curveball. It's now pro wrestling. And that rewards the Knicks. Draymond Butler and the Warriors, the T-Wolves against the Pretty Lakers, is that... It almost rewarded the rockets against the Warriors. They just couldn't score at all.

So the league, this is why I'm always, I call it Manilics, is baseball. Analytics are great in baseball and basketball for a long season. But in the playoffs, when a baseball manager will use starters out of the pen suddenly your analytics when you know a few years ago Justin Verlander is now pitching in the 8th

it's like okay that's not really a bullpen you manage differently in the postseason and in the NBA the league has gone yeah we're not blowing the whistle

well now you're rewarding the less skilled defensive might limited teams like the Warriors without Steph Steph leaves that Minnesota game

they were just as a effective because they just grabbed and pulled and held on it. And the Knicks are built for these kind of playoffs. So that's why I always call them analytics. I love analytics. But postseason comes down to we're not going to blow the whistle. We're going to let things slide. And by the way, this is why Villanova guys, this is why it's so fun.

Villanova guys all play defense, all were in close games. Kentucky had the personnel. Villanova had the soul. Villanova, even when they won national titles, they don't run through the tournament and beat the shit out of people. Kentucky did. Kansas does.

So these Villanova players go to three to four years. They've been playing defense, three-star guys, get to the NBA, overlooked. Then they go to Tibbs, who's like Jay Wright, defense, practice. So the Knicks are built

for a hyper-aggressive playoff format. And the Celtics are still good, but they're flawed with the change of officiating. So there's a million pieces of that. I want to jump on one, which is the giant sample versus the shorter sample and trusting the math, because something really interesting,

and you'll find this interesting because you're not a poker player. So one of the things I have found really interesting is a lot of people who clearly don't play poker are making the point that the Celtics are poker players, they're card counters, they're professional gamblers that know, listen, it's 60, 40 my way, and I make that bet enough times, I eventually profit. And that does actually apply in work for blackjack, where it is truly just, you know, you of a sample size of infinity if you want it.

And you know what? You can the, but poker is different because the way the actual best poker players work in a tournament format where there is escalating. So again, I'm going to have to explain a little about tournament poker, but I promise it will be worth it to the audience. Say there's a hundred players in a poker tournament.

Yeah. 80 and it costs $1,000 to get into it, so there's $100,000 in the prize pool. The first 85 people eliminated will get $0. Final 15 are the people who get money. Yes. And then if it was a hundred, again, $100,000 prize pool. That's how the World Series of poker works, right? Exactly right.

Except the numbers are bigger and it's more people. But it's the difference between tournament poker and a cash game. A cash game is I sit down with a certain amount of money. I can get up whenever I want, up or down, whatever. And then 15th place under this tournament would probably, you'd get $1,500, so you'd profit $500. First place, you get $35,000. Second place, you get 20, and you know what I mean?

It's tiered, but it is really rewards, like getting into first or second or third versus just barely getting into the money. Okay, that's how tournament poker works. at the beginning of a poker tournament, a professional player, if they know, all right, I have a 60% chance of winning this hand.

The money is we're both, you know, I can call your all-in pre-flop. I have X-ray vision. I know your cards. I'm a 60-40 favorite. Even though two out of five times, I'm going to lose. It's the beginning of the tournament.

I need to get chips. I have to call there. I call. And you take the risk. That's smart. That's the way they will play. If at the final table of that tournament, that professional player looks around and says,

I'm the best player here. I have a sizable skill advantage. Then that player no longer has any influence. in getting involved in 60-40 confrontations, even when they have the 60 percent, because they know, yeah, in the long run, all win, but this isn't a long run. This is a sample of one, and I have a two out of five chance of losing. I would rather lower the variance, play smaller pots, it grind you down to where I'm eventually an 8515 favorite.

So here's why I tell that whole story. The Celtics shouldn't be looking at this series like they're the best player at the table. And they have a better option than adding all this variance by bombing threes. They should be saying the last thing we want is a cold shooting night to cost us the game because we're better than you. The team that invented this strategy, the Houston Ruff. with under Daryl Morey did it because they were never the better team because they were trying to beat Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, and Clay Thompson. So they said, we want to get into 40, 60 battles, even if we're on the 40, because we're

going to win those almost half the time. The Celtics, this is my biggest criticism. They are approaching this series like they can't beat them straight up. They're approaching the series like they need luck in their favor. I wouldn't mind this if this were the first two games of the NBA finals against Oklahoma City. Because they might look at Oklahoma City and be like, man, they're better than us. So let's shake the snow globe and add some variance to it. The Knicks, they shouldn't have felt that way.

And their refusal, and here's the one other thing that I'm going to add to it. there is still an argument, play the way you play for at least the beginning of the game. In both of these games, they've had a 20-point lead. Yeah. Late. That is obviously the moment to be like, hey, it's not a long-run, large sample anymore. It's can we play a style of basketball that will give us the best chance to finish these next 15 minutes? Be very conservative investors.

Let's pull out tech stocks, buy bonds for the next eight minutes. That's right. There you go. So that's your version of it. It's the difference between how you are told to invest your retirement when you're 30 versus when you're 62. Right. Like those are different strategies.

And the Celtics approach of being like, we are going to play the fourth quarter of, of a playoff game, the exact style we would play the first quarter of a February game is just, that's not staying true to who you are. That's being ridiculous. Yes. That would be as if in the chiefs at their heyday of the, when Tyreek was there and everything, when they were just high flying and didn't have a good defense. If they, when they were up 10 in the fourth quarter of a playoff game, they're like,

bombs away, this is what we do. That's not smart. That's not staying true to who you are. That's why when the Miami Dolphins have Jalen Waddle and Tyree Kill, that works in September and October, but as the weather gets windy and cold and the all-the-best AFC teams play in lousy weather, what you really need to do, and this is a little bit of a flaw with Mike McDaniels, is what you really need to do is start to change your offense about Thanksgiving, because you're going to have to go to Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Buffalo. And so what happens is this is what we do.

We throw it down field. Will you have a small, modest, armed quarterback, and you're still trying, and then you try to pivot to, no, it's too late. And so it was always funny watching the dolphins, and I'm like, guys, you're falling in love with September and October football. This stuff works then. The NFL, think about this. name the last dome dynasty in the NFL.

Name the last warm weather dynasty. They don't exist. Marino never want to ring. Because eventually... You become a very warm weather offense. The chargers with Dan Fouts were electric. No trophy. So this is a sneaky,

important thing. And this is just random luck of the moment. as far as who's good. Because you're exactly right that the AFC, all the excellent teams are outdoor shitty weather. Yep.

So like, and I think that oddly, likely works against the Houston Texans ability to compete for championships in that they're not going, unless they get home field advantage throughout the playoffs, they're just not going to

be conditioned, playing in the AFC South and playing in a dome. The NFC is the opposite, and it is such a unique potential edge Philadelphia has. So if you're the Eagles, yep, and for the time being, now maybe Washington will get great, they were really good last year, and maybe the Giants will get great, maybe the Bears will get great, maybe the Packers will get great. So this all can change. But for the time being, for the Eagles last few years, Rams, Detroit, San Francisco, Dallas, whoever wins the South, Tampa. So they are in a spot where if we can get home field, whoever's coming here ain't built for this shit.

Right. So like in the AFC, home field matters a little less for the Chiefs, Bill's, Ravens, Cincinnati because it's like, all right. No matter what, this is going to be a pain in the ass tough. Like, we're all built our teams knowing that. The NFC, it's just how it turned where the lions are in a dome. And the Rams have, so that can change. But for the time being, it makes it to where, for Philadelphia specifically, home field advantage is wildly valuable.

Yeah. Wildly valuable. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news? news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy,

Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated. polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you content. and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Now it's time for power players brought to you by BMW, the ultimate driving machine. And today's power player is Shay Gilgis Alexander, who gave an electric performance in OKC's beat down to the Nuggets, SGA, 11 of 13 from the field and 11 of 11 from the line, leading the thunder with 34 points and 8 assists. What is that that sets apart these power players from the rest? Bottom line, it's their attention to detail, innovative playing styles, and a relentless drive for performing at the highest level.

The same goes for BMW I-X. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine electrified. So I want to throw something out here. It's, I want to go back to the NBA. And Draymond Green, obviously, part of the volume. And, you know, there's certainly an argument. I think he's the best defensive player ever. I mean, his ability to take Shengun out of games to give, I mean, to give Janus,

massive problems. Now, to give you the greatness of Yokic, he just waves the white flag on Yokic. It's just like, I can't do anything. Either could Anthony Davis, by the way. Anthony would hold him to 28. and Anthony was like, I played really good, and he did. So, I mean, Yonich is, I mean, Dremon gives Janus issues. He gives everybody issues.

But one of the brilliant things about Dremon, and I think it's purposeful and intentional, he moves the line. So it's almost like if you're a parent, you don't want to yell at your kids all the time. So the kid that's a little inappropriate is constantly, consciously or socially or subconsciously testing his parents what he can get away with. And at some time, at some point, you as a parent will be harder on the good-natured well-behaved kid who infrequently makes a mistake than the kid that's always in trouble. When I watched Draymond play, Mike Green pointed this out, Draymond has moved the line that he did something the other night where people on the air were defending him and I'm like, nobody would get away.

It's insane. And so I've said this for a long time. So listen, Dremond and I have a very... Complicated. Relationship is not even the right word, but it's complicated because I am very tight with a number of people who love Dremon Green,

who swear by Dremon Green, who and Dremon does not, you know, have a number of people. affinity for me, and I have been critical of him in the past. But everyone, people whose opinion I really trust and value say off the court, one of the best dudes ever. So it's a weird dynamic there. Simultaneously, I have said that I thought he should have won three straight defensive player of the year awards back when Kauai won two of them. And I do think he is one of the most brilliant defensive players of all time.

And I'm on the record that I thought he, not Clay, was the second most important person of the pre-KD Warriors. Totally agree. Totally agree. Here is the other piece of it. There is no player in NBA history who is given more leeway than, and this is an important qualifier, Draymond Green, after getting one tech. Sometimes I think the warriors are their most dangerous if Dremond gets a technical early.

And I know Dremont is his most devastating defensively when he has five fouls. Because if Dremont gets to five fouls, he does not foul out at six. He fouls out at nine. He gets three more off. Damn it. Like, we're going to let it go. And Draymond, with one technical, can follow the ref up and down the court doing anything, and a ref doesn't want to throw them out.

And so there is no question that the guys, the NBA refs do a, I think one of the things they need to do better about is guys who never complain get a quick, trigger on texts the one time they do. And guys who always whine and yell and complain, the refs seem to turn a deaf ear to. Oddly, it doesn't really feel like it applies to Luca. Because I think Luca actually really irritates the reps, because here's the difference between Luca and Dremont. Dremont is complaining or yelling about calls that go against him.

Luca is yelling about calls he does not get. And for some reason, I think refs are way more bothered by what Luca does than what Draymond. Yeah, Luca is saying, you missed it. Draymond is arguing, I appreciate the effort, but you went the wrong. I didn't do it. Right. Exactly. Draymond is saying I'm innocent. Luca is saying you're guilty. And so the refs seem to hate Luca. And with Draymond, they're like, ah, Draymond's being Draymond. But there is also, it's not just, it's not just on text. I'm going to tell, like, people can look up the game log and they will see it. It's a really, so Draymond right now has two flagrant foul points. Yes. four and you're suspended. That happened in in 2016.

You get one for a flagrant one. You get two for a flagrant two. In Warriors Rockets game seven early on, Dremont got fouled and then swiped his hand and hit, I think it was Fred, it would definitely, it was Fred Van Vleet. And the refs went and reviewed it. And they said, foul on Fred Van Vleet,

and then dead ball technical on Dremond for hitting him in the face. With the justification being, it can't be a flagrant because the play was over, technically, over by a quarter of a second, so it's a technical. The very next game played in the NBA, Yokic got fouled by Lou Dort, and Yokic hit him in the head. and the refs went and reviewed it, and they said, foul on Lou Dordt, flagrant on Joker. And I'm like, that is the exact thing that Drey-Mund, literally the exact thing, and it was a different rule interpretation.

And that was, I know it in my bones, because the refs were aware, oh, shit, Dremont is a, if we give him this flagrant, then on his next flagrant, which he is guaranteed to get at some point, he'll be suspended for a game. let's just give him a technical. And so listen, if you can get away with it, it's smart. He can get away with it. And when Draymond, there was just a, I should have pulled it. There was an amazing graphic today.

One of those little dot charts where it was players since the two-minute report has existed, players who have benefited the most. And it was like a Mahomes, one of the ones, one of the, the NFL quarterback charts like where there's like a whole bunch of dots here on this line and then right here's Mahomes through five years or whatever where he breaks the chart. It was Draymond that not a, by three standard deviations, no player has had more calls where the two minute report says, yeah, that should have been a foul on them and we missed it. than Draymond.

He has mind melded the rafts into, I'm such a great defender, I probably didn't foul him and gets away with all of it. And I give him credit because it's the only way to, the only way a guy with his shooting ability, his height, his limited athleticism could become a first ballot hall of famer is playing this way. And he did it. He's done it. It's like the great salesman who's not great on the details.

And, you know, like, and after one. while as his boss, you're like, well, you know, at some point, he is so good at this, I will acknowledge I will eat that. Yeah. And I think Draymond is so good and is so respected for his defense that I think that's just natural. I just think that's why we don't have, you know, in baseball, you do need a robot behind the plate. But in basketball, it's like, I always say officiating basketball, is officiating past interference in the NFL.

You could call double. But here's the other thing. Have I ever told you my Jerry Sloan story? So for a year, you know how I love theories? So for years, I could never figure out why the Utah Jazz in that 10-year Stockton-Malone run. We're such an average road team. I'm like, I mean, the Celtics now are better on the road than at home. All great teams are good on the road, excellent at home.

The jazz were great at home and kind of 500-ish regularly on the road. I could never figure it out. And then John Ireland, voice of the Lakers night, were talking one night. And he goes, do you remember Jerry Sloan is a player? And Sloan was like this inartistic bully. He was a foul machine. He was a tough guy. He and Bobby Jones.

They were like in fights when the NBA in the 70s would like allow it. It was just games weren't televised. The league was much rougher. So officials who never want to call every foul, especially in a raucous home environment, kind of gave the jazz a little bit of a home pass. They were the most aggressive, handsy team. And then on the road, it's about six, five or six different calls a game, especially late, you're getting flagged for that. And that's just the way officials are. Because the proximity of fans to floor is so close.

And so this jazz team, which was so handsy, that was Jerry, that was, by the way, Stockton, some say's the dirtiest player ever. Dirty's player ever. Okay. Hornacek was a grabber. Bologne was always late. Along with the elbows. Yeah, of course. So they're the one team where they would go on the road and about six times a game.

they would get, the other team got into the bonus. And I was like, oh, I hate that I couldn't figure that out. So there is something to be said about there. And you're not mentioning this. Draymond gets even more latitude at home. Oh, yeah. No. And it's what you can get away with is what you can get away with.

And I just, the thing that I, I, who was I talking about this? Oh, this was a Shador Sanders take I had, but I'll give it to you because it applies to Draymond kind of loosely, but we go it wherever on the show. So one of the greatest, in my opinion, one of the greatest radio shows in America, and it has now been on, you'll be more impressed by this than anyone. For 23 years running in the same market is a show called The Church Aladdin. And it's on, it used to be on an alternative rock station. It's now on a regular rock station. Doesn't matter. They, their frequency just changed.

But it's been this dude, Laslo and his buddy slim fast. I was their sports guy for years. And Lasz, I'm going to tell a real, you know, quick tangent, people like it. Laslo is, to me, he was one of my mentors in radio and just also one of the coolest stories ever. he was from Detroit an alcoholic drug addict went to the Navy I think got kicked out of the Navy

because of those two things I just mentioned I don't again I might get the story something wrong kind of was always a mess always did radio and then got sober started this state and is like a wild liberal on the radio in Kansas City Missouri where when he started his show

every single day, he would start his show by saying it has been X amount of days since George W. Bush declared mission accomplished in Iraq and then went on. And he's on the air to this day because he's so talented and I think it's the funniest show in America. So say all that. So when I first started in radio, they were down the hall. They had actually just come back from Seattle where they used to be simulcast in Seattle and Kansas. and and Laslo said to me. He was like, listen, man, and this wasn't his original theory, but he was the first person I had heard it from.

I'm like 24. He's like, you got to know what type of horse you are for this company. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, there's three horses in radio. He's like, there's the money horse, there's the show horse, and there's the workhorse. He's like, and you're going to screw up if you don't know which horse you are. Like, okay.

He's like, the money horse is the guy who's always going to have a job because all the big clients love him. He's like the car dealerships his buddy and this guy. And so he does all the reads because they all love him. He's safe. He's like the show horse is the guy who they want to be able to put on the billboard the name. We got. He's like he's usually like someone who does, you know, a former athlete or does local TV and he feels like a celebrity. he's like none of the advertisers know who the hell you are and nobody knows your name he's like

that just leaves the workhorse he's like and that's what it sounds like you're going to keep your job because you're going to work harder than everybody do you need me to pick up that shift i can do this i can do that i you're also going to work you're going to know everything like that's your path man and honest to god it's one of the most important kind of conversations I ever had in my career because I was like, okay, that's who I'm going to be. And he was telling me this. He's like, you think you're the show horse. You think like you're a big name. He's like, but you're not. Maybe one day you will be, but you're not. And I was going to say this because Draymond recognized early on, I'm the workhorse. I've got to do the dirty work. I've got to do all this.

But the more interesting part of it is the Shador thing, which is Shador fell in the draft. Because he thought he was a show horse and teams were looking at him as are you a workhorse? And he thought, I'm Shador Sanders. I'm interviewing you. I've got all these people competing for my services. And they looked at it as, you're Shador Sanders. Are you going to pick up this mistake we put in the film? Are you going to know the playbook?

Are you going to do this? And if you don't know the job you're applying for, how do you nail the interview? you. And so I think that is like a really, it's a really something I've just carried with me forever, like poignant piece of advice, which is, it doesn't so much matter how you view yourself. It matters in an employment setting. It matters how your employer or potential employer views you. And are you representing that? Are you, you know, and so that I think was Shador's biggest mistake is he didn't know what job he was interviewing for, and he didn't know who he was to these teams. Well, and I'll throw something at you. One of the things why we didn't get an honest read,

because clearly Pittsburgh never viewed him. They viewed him as Kenny Pickett. Daniel Jeremiah said that when his intel was that they viewed him is a little better than Kenny Pickett as a prospect. Well, Kenny Pickett by the two GMs, two of the GMs in the league that I really respect, one of them with a couple trophies viewed Kenny Pickett as a top to middle of the third quarterback. And that's exactly what he is. He's a backup and an occasional starter if somebody gets hurt, which is his role potentially in Cleveland. I don't think he'll be there long, but that's his current role. So the reason that Chadour didn't get an honest evaluation is because Dion Sanders knows so many people in the NFL. And he's worked at many broadcast companies and nobody wanted to be honest. This is what I've always said about bullies and Dion is not a bully. The downside to being forceful and intimidating and a bully is you actually get lied to by everybody in your life. Because nobody wants confrontation. People don't like it.

Your wife doesn't. Your kids don't. So the big brash bully, the top sales guy, the egomaniac, Bobby Knight in his prime. never got an honest opinion because he intimidated people. So you're much better having relationships where you ask questions. You don't always have an opinion where people feel free to criticize you. And that that will give you a more honest appraisal of who you truly are and what you need to accomplish.

Bullies get lied to more than anybody, although they think they're always demanding and getting the truth. The exact opposite is true. They have visions of, they're deluded to a degree because they're always being told, yes, you're right and absolutely in all. So the other group that never gets an honest appraisal are superstars and celebrities. You know, nobody ever, nobody ever told George Clooney in his prime, yeah, you're not really, it's not working for me on this because he was so big you didn't want to piss him. and his, you know, it's like Leonardo DiCaprio in his prime. Don't offend him. That won't go well.

And so being a superstar. Dion's like a superstar. I mean, he's doing commercials with Nick Sabin, and he's a 500 coach of Colorado. That's all you need to know, right? So, so I think that's what Hurt Shadour is nobody just came out and just said, and by the way, Arch Manning may get a little bit of this too. is that people are, nobody's going to come out and say, I got to be honest. He couldn't beat out Quinn yours.

There's a reason. He's, he's okay. So I, oh, well, that's, well, that's a, that's a, I've just assumed Archmanning is a guaranteed top five pick. But I, so, but that, but I don't know as much about college football as you. And I'm not even saying that's what you're saying. Here's the other thing, the Shador thing revealed to me. And it's not that I needed it revealed. I, it was, it, it shined a light on.

We have traded as a sports public, true insiders for instant transactional gratification. We, we have valued who is going to have this thing that was going to be announced by the team in 90 minutes in way first over what is actual informational journalism, which is somebody said this, and again, I wish I could quote them, but I can't. Journalism is publishing or uncovering information that otherwise would not get out there. That's what it is. like, this story would remain hidden or fact or whatever it is. Don Van Nata did a lot of that.

Like Seth Wickersham, we know the people who've done it in sports. Simply being the first to say this player is signing with this team, when that player signing with that team was going to become public knowledge no matter what, is a different, I'm not saying it's not journalism. It's a different thing. But that is the thing that we, in the general public, seemingly value because that is the thing that people get paid for and get famous for as reporters. The only way to these days do that job really well is to have everyone like you, which is why

in modern sports journalism. Every draft pick is great. Every surgery is ahead of schedule. Every MRI was better than expected. And everything is positive. Every single thing is positive. And so note the fact that none of our insiders said, I've talked to 15 teams and 12 of them don't have Shador in their top 50.

Like, nobody had this. Nobody had, like it was, it went from, is he going to be the first pick to, okay, it'll be Cam Ward, but then, you know, Shador, Giants Browns to, oh shit. he might slide to the Saints. And then by draft day, it was, wow. What does it mean for Aaron Rogers? Because Chador could maybe be there at 21 and they could draft him. The entirety of the NFL world, nobody had.

He'll be very fortunate if he is taken with the Browns or Giant second pick. Not one person. and by the way, I'm not, I obviously didn't have it, I'm going to act like I had it, but I'm an insider. And so I found that really telling that, man, what information are we actually getting? Like what, what is the real, real? And are the guys who actually have the real information? Like, well, I know the truth here, but it's not worth it because it'll piss it. the wrong relationships, agents, teams, whatever off. And so I also think that what is so

stunning about this and this last thing I'll say, because I know now we're a month old on it, it is shocking that Dion didn't have the information either. That nobody privately told Dion. That's right. That's the downside like a bully of being a beloved superstar. You don't get the truth. Hey, man, you're like, listen, maybe they're all wrong. But the league has real questions over whether or not your son's a starter. So you got to tell him he's got to blow their socks off in this. Because Dion is whatever anyone thinks of Dion, he's obviously a loving, devoted father. That's undeniable.

Yeah. And he just, he didn't have the information. That's right. Think about that. Think of how many friends he has in the NFL and not a single person. I'm telling you, Arch Manning, be very careful. The Mannings are American football royalty. Now, I will say there's a little less, they've got their own egos, but Dion's always been over the top.

You know, he's been, he's on, sure, almost at times a wrestling heel. Like he loves to, you know, and the Manning's, you know, with Arch, he's been backing up Quinn Ewers, who he's clearly better than, and they never transferred. I mean, so they've handled it with grace. and I think that's the Manning's brand. But this really does go back to bullies and superstars. You'd think they'd get the inside info. They're lied to more than everybody else. You know who you don't lie to?

Your cranky neighbor, who you don't love, but you're going to tell them, don't mow the grass at 6 o'clock on a Saturday. You're going to give them a real honest, cranky opinion. The people that you don't have anything to lose, like just people that you don't adore. You're always willing to say, bro, that's not going to work. Don't do that. Correct.

That's hard to say to a Manning or a Dion Sanders. It's hard. Yeah, that's right. That's really interesting. Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to them is the right thing to do. So, you know, degree cool rush deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula, and it did not go over well with their fans. So degrees, the whole thing is it turns up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort.

And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring the original formula back. One guy even started an online petition. And degree listened. They admitted they effed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp, and fresh. It's back in Walmart, Target, and other stores now for under $4.

There's a reason it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people were not happy when it changed. So if you've never tried it, it might be a good time to see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart, Target, and try the OG degree cool rush for yourself. You know, finally, you got to bless Dallas Cowboy fans' heart. They're so excited for George Pickens, and I was saying this today. When Kyle Shanahan said, I can't make Tray Lance work, I made Matt Schaubb a pro bowler, rock pretty I got him to a Super Bowl, Garoppolo I got to a Super Bowl,

I can't make Tray Lance work. And the Cowboys were like, ooh. here's a fourth round pick. Okay. When Warren Buffett says, be careful with Bitcoin. I'm careful with Bitcoin. When Mike Tomlin says about a receiver,

listen, I can't make it work. Chase Claypool, A, B, Martavius Bryant. I mean, the list goes on. Deontay Johnson. If Mike Tomlin, who is two things,

great motivator and incredibly patient with immature players. When Mike says, yeah, guys, I'm out. But Jerry, this is a personality trait. Jerry loves to save. He loves to give people jobs that need him, Chan Galey, Mike McCarthy, Jason Garrett, Brian Schottenheimer. They feel like Jerry is saving it. He's giving him job that's not available.

McCarthy couldn't get interviews. Parcells and Jimmy Johnson didn't need him that wore Jimmy out. Dak Prescott, fourth round. He loves, hey, Tony Romo, undrafted. Cowboys never draft quarterbacks in the first round. They don't need Jerry. So when he goes and gets George Pickens, the reputation is out. Basically, Tomlin, I'm out.

Jerry's like, I'm here. I'll make it work. I think this is Jerry's wildcatting oil days where he would hunt for gems. And I think that is literally his mindset with coaches and sometimes draft picks and players is that he feels like pickens. He's the rest of the league is out. I am in. And I don't think long term.

I think that's why the cowboys are where the cowboys are currently. in the NFL. I think that George Pickens is one of the more overrated players in the whole league. And the reason I feel that way is because I think certain football fans, this is one of my favorite and kind of relatively newest take, which is talent has become wildly overrated. and particularly in the NFL. Obviously, you need a requisite level of talent that goes without saying. However, this idea that talent is some cure-all when this guy has been a pain in the ass every step of his football life.

It is why he fell on the draft. It is why you were hearing rumors about him being available. during his second year, during his third year. He was traded here. It is the, he, it's, you know, when you are potentially trying to get a contract in the offseason and your team is in the middle of a losing streak and you show up to the Christmas Day game against the Kansas City Chiefs 90 minutes before kickoff, you show up three hours before your TV show, Colin.

You have 220 of them a year. He's got 17 football games. And you're just not a serious person and you're not going to contribute to winning the way your talent says you should. And so there's that. There is also the fact that trading a third round pick for a player with one year left on his contract means you probably should give him a contract extension. The only thing worse, in my opinion, than trading a third round pick for one year of George Pickens than letting him be a free agent, is giving that guy 50 million guaranteed. So the Cowboys put themselves in a position where it's no win. Do we pay this guy early when he has never, he's never been the top 10 in the NFL of anything?

he's like his career numbers are pedestrian. He's never outpaced. His production has never outpaced his targets. Right. And he quits on routes, which quarterbacks despise. Right. He puts on routes and is a million, it gets a million problems there. So you can't pay them.

But the other thing you shouldn't do as a smart franchise is keep trading these mid-round picks for rentals. And so I, two years ago, Colin, the Chiefs ended up winning the Super Bowl, but two years ago when the Chiefs had nothing but drops everywhere and the receivers couldn't do anything. Pickens was available then. And Wilde and Brew couldn't believe me. I was like, I don't want him. I was like, the Chiefs already are on thin ice with Cadarius Tony. Like they, you know, and they got, they got, the Chiefs traded for Cadarius Tony. They gave up a fifth round pick.

he had three years left on his deal. And that's still, listen, he had the amazing part return of the Super Bowl, but he's still ultimately can't get right guys can't get right. And so I, I'm not a Pickens guy. I also think he's a somewhat overrated player. And I also think for, if Mike Tomlin had a hard time keeping him inside the lines, Brian Schottenheimer in his first year as a head coach, how much of Brian Schottenheimer's time is going to be about Micah's podcast

and whatever the hell George Pickens did? A lot of it is the answer. Yeah, if a rehab center's like, we're done. Yeah, we're out of here. Exactly what. It's insane. Nick Ryan. Great hour, buddy.

Great to see you. Talk to you soon, Colin. Blending Weiss's signature dynamic storytelling with a high-octane, world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. Catch action-pack, live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on Vice TV. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people

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This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions.

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