The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nuggets-Thunder Reaction, OKC-Timberwolves & Knicks-Pacers Predictions

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the NBA playoffs! They debate whether the Nuggets should blow it up and trade Jamal Murray following their playoff exit (3:30) and discuss the huge discrepancy between the east and the west (9:00). They dive into whether it’s over for the Celtics potential dynasty run after the injury to Jayson Tatum (17:30) and debate whether the Pacers are better than the Knicks (25:45). Finally, they highlight the importance of depth in the postseason (35:00) and why physicality is so important for playoff basketball (38:15) (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Well, we got a stinker in game seven at OKC, which I kind of had a vibe. In fact, I'm surprised it went seven. Gordon's injury. Even in the winning games, I felt like Yokic was just running out of gas. Jamal Murray provided very little Jason Timp hoops tonight. Yeah, I felt like, you know, they played their ass off early. But you know, from Caruso on Yokic to Murray's absence. I mean, Kaysen Wallace is hitting shot. Just like, okay, it's not going to be their day. I think I will say this.

I mean, Oklahoma's the day was favorite. I think we both liked them. I thought it would be a really good series. It was. I do think you kind of have to sort of, I mean, Christian Brown played a lot better. I think you do have to examine Jamal Murray. I just think in too many big games, he has injuries.

In too many big games, Jason, and I just don't feel like I'm getting it. He was never hyper athletic anyway. I don't know. I think it's time to shuffle the deck. If it was me, I would keep Gordon, Brown for his energy. I would keep, you know, Yokic, obviously. I'd move anything else.

I'd take any call. How far off am I? Well, I think that there's certainly going to be a pivot coming. I think that Michael Porter Jr. is the kind of player that I think they'll be almost certainly looking to move. They used to need him desperately as a weakside spacer in the context of Aaron Gordon as a non-shooter. But now with Aaron Gordon really coming together as just a super well-rounded, versatile role player on both ends of the floor, I think they can actually look to target more of a defensive-minded wing at that position instead of a guy like Michael Porter, Jr., is more of a shooter. I would stick with Jamal because I think there's a lot of value specifically with the continuity

with him in that matchup. This is a guy who's played two-man game with Yokic for over a half decade and he just has such a flow with him. I think there's a conversation to be had with Jamal as it pertains to his conditioning and it's routine now that he comes into camp out of shape and he basically plays his way into shape and then suddenly right before the all-star break he kind of starts to come together and then he'll look at, good in the playoffs just not as consistently good as he can be. I mean, Colin, as bad as he was tonight, he was absolutely brilliant in game six. Yeah. But it's one of those things where I think internally they're going to need more out of Jamal, but I certainly think a pivot's coming. I think

the pivot's going to center around a Michael Porter Jr. trade. That's the kind of piece that they need to upgrade. I think Jamal, I think Christian Brown, I think Aaron Gordon, I think Nicole Yokic. I think that's a championship four. I just think they need someone more along the lines of like a Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels type at the three than they need a Michael Porter Jr. They need to anchor this group with defense. They need to give themselves more athleticism and pop. You could feel the difference in the athleticism in this, especially in game seven tonight or today. Like they're in that beginning of the game is so funny on the broadcast. They show all the difference and experience. All those nuggets have played in like 20 game sevens combined. And there's like,

three on the OKC side. And they start the game and Denver goes up 21 to 10 and it literally feels like a classic young guy game seven. But then right at the end of the first quarter, Alex Crusoe checks in. They really up their ball pressure and man, did the wheels come off? It completely came off from there and they just were never able to regain control. And even Yokic to your point, especially in that late second quarter run that OKC went on right before the half. He just looked physically overwhelmed by how physical their guard. are. Yeah, no, it was like a 14 to 2 run and they were getting up the floor and I think, I think, I've said this before, I think the first round should be five games. I think it was, that's what it was,

MJ's era and I think the pace is faster. I think the athletes are bigger and stronger. I don't like the NFL going to 18 games eventually. I just, I think we should, I don't, that doesn't do it for me because I think athletes now are, they're training year round. You ask more, bodies break down. But I think, you know, I think we're going to end up, you know, we're ending up with really good coaching staffs with OKC, Minnesota, Indiana, and the Knicks. That's what we're ending up with. And I think, I think we're ending up with, I mean, between Halliburton and Jalen Brunson and SGA and, you know, I mean, Ant, obviously, I feel like the Eastern Conference feels much different than the Western Conference. In the Western Conference, I just

love the construct of the rosters. I mean, if you look at Minnesota, it should not be this good. Rudy Gobert's an offensive hole at times, Conley's six years past his prime, and is a superstar, a developing superstar. Julius Randall was never a good playoff performer and struggled the first month or two with the T-Wolves. But I see this roster, I see the athleticism, I see the size. Great GM came from Denver. And I see a staff that just gets everything out of its players that, like, coaches them hard. It's like almost like Spolstra.

Coaches them hard, has no problem barking. But I feel like I'm getting every player's best game. And with Oklahoma City, like Sam Presti, I feel again, I just think there's just so much energy and so many guys that can do high end rotational players. So in the West, you can touch on this. I just think it's really good coaching, obviously two of the top four or five stars in ANSGA. But I think it's really good coaching, really good GMing, really nice rosters with a variety of options to throw at teams. Big, energy, youth, and just it just, there's so many levers for both coaches to pull in the West.

Yeah, you know, depth is the recurring theme that I see for sure in the sense that the pastors have three, four, five guys. that they lean on in substantial rolls off the bench. Same with Oklahoma City. Same with Minnesota. You're getting Nasree, Dante DeVincenzo, Nikiel Alexander Walker. These teams just have wave after wave of talent. And even with the Knicks, like, the Knicks don't have the depth in terms of like playing an eight or nine man rotation.

But Mitchell Robinson is like a legit sixth starter for them. And so is Deuce McBride. I think Deuce McBride's a very good backup guard. And so I think that's part of it. Having like a rock solid seven that you can count on, I think makes a big deal. deal. I mean, to your point, Colin, literally we got into the start of the second quarter. And David Adelman inexplicably leaves Yokic and Murray off the court at the same time. Yeah. We got to see a little bit of Denver's bench there for a minute. It wasn't pretty.

And so I think depth is a significant part of it. There is an interesting trend, Colin, towards offense and late playoff success. Two years ago, Denver is the first team that's not a defending champion that was not a top 10 defense to win the title. Last year, we had three top five or three top 10 offenses, two top 10 defenses. This year, all four teams in the final four are top 10 offenses, but only Oklahoma City and Minnesota are top 10 defenses, which I find really fascinating. The offensive side of the floor is becoming more important as the coaching staves and the defensive schematics have made it so that groups like that Denver group can actually defend pretty well when they're engaged and they're playing hard. And so what's really becoming

important is do you have the scoring talent to actually put the ball in the basket in these tight competitive environments? You know what's interesting? There's a real change in the league. And I think it's one Adam Silver, the commissioner, wanted. I don't think it's a coincidence that Halliburton and Brunson are high IQ, EQ floor generals. You know, five years ago, it was let's get three really good players together. And I think Adam Silver looked at that and just thought, that's not what we want here. Like, that's just eliminating half to 60 to 70% of the teams. And you're getting the basketball that Adam Silver wanted.

Physical playoff basketball, no dynasties, with multiple aprons. You know, you can't have a stacked roster. Even Boston, they cheated the code a little bit for a year. and then they looked really old this year. Like once we move off by Porzingis or a Horford or Drew Holiday, Boston's going to face what everybody else does, right? With new ownership.

So I think it's what the league wanted. And I got to tell you what I really like about it. I love point, you know, nothing against wings, MJ and Kobe, but I like point guard driven basketball. I love smart point guard play. I always love Chris Paul, where everybody gets touches. I went golf this morning very early in Burbs in Chicago

when we started talking about Jalen Brunson. We were all sports fans. And we were all like, yeah, I watched them at Villanova. I didn't see that. I watched them at Dallas. I didn't see that. But I think, you know how you and I talked about certain players when the league went three heavy, guys like Dwight Howard or Tristan Thompson?

It's like, man, you can't have them on the floor. it's almost like Adam Silver has moved basketball into Brunson and Halliburton, which is, it's not, you're not going to have the, you're going to have these rosters that aren't all star-studded. They're rotational players, they're role players. So intelligence, everybody getting touches, pacing becomes huge. Like I look at Brunson now and I'm like, I feel like the league's kind of built for him in Halliburton. It is, it's 28 points isn't necessary. It's when you don't have a top heavy roster, Jason,

and you actually have seven guys that can play eight guys, and you get them all touches, I don't know. I just, I watch the league and I don't feel like the Knicks and the Pacers are outliers. I'm like, no, like, they're my favorite two teams right now in the league to watch. I think you're absolutely on to something here, Colin. I think what we're seeing is offensive-minded stars that are able to create advantages, and then these deep rosters of talent living off of that advantage. Essentially, like, as the game has modernized,

there's a lot of really similar jobs on offense. Like, a backdoor cut is a backdoor cut regardless of what type of athlete you are. If you're attacking a closeout, it's the same for the Pacers as it is for the Knicks as it is for the Nuggets. If you're making reeds in a four on three slipping out of a ball screen because they put two on Brunson or they put two on Halliburton, it's the same reads in Golden State as it's, it is in Indiana as it is in New York. And so what happens is you can, as a GM, accumulate these types of talent, these two-way players that can attack closeouts, make reads, play defense, you know,

all that kind of stuff. And all it becomes is do you have a guy, a singular force that can constantly bring two to the ball or make the right reads to generate that first close-out? And then from there, it's a flow sport. It's all about the aggregate talent on the floor capitalizing on that advantage. but Tyreys Halliburton is succeeding because he's one of the best advantage creators in basketball. Brunson does it a little bit more of a lean towards scoring, but I mean, keep an eye on this series. In this matchup in particular, the Pacers have been able to hold Brunson scoring down a little bit by constantly putting two on the ball.

This will be a series where we're going to see a lot of Siaka, or excuse me, Ogen and O.GN and Obie and O'B and McHale Bridges and Josh Hart looking to make plays. It is a very interesting directional change for the league in this offensive theme that we're talking about. This is why guys like Luca are so valuable. This is why guys like Nicola Yokic are so valuable. When you have somebody that's like got to throw multiple pieces at this guy, all of a sudden, these really achievable roles appear for role players. And those are the kinds of guys that good GMs are picking up all over the league. To Sam Presti's credit, he's got like eight of these dudes that can defend multiple positions,

knock down a catch and shoot three, drive a close out, make a read, or grab a rebound. And so as a result, they just come flying in. It's like, oh, good job. You finished the J-dub in Dort phase. Here comes Case on Wallace and Alex Crusoe for your next shift. Have fun with that. They might actually be better at it. Yeah, no, and I like it.

I mean, I don't think, you know, I think the league would do better if it's OKC. Well, actually, Aunt Edwards probably. Ant against the Knicks would be really good to have Ant go for 42 in the garden. You know, it's fans always root for the home team. So in the next win, you know, the fans are going to say, we told you so. I think a really fascinating team, though, is the one that lost. And we see this a lot in the NBA, the end of dynasties. That's not the case because the Celtics were never a dynasty.

But I do feel like I felt when Denver won, I thought, oh, here come the Spurs. And then they weren't. And then I thought when the Celtics won, I thought, it was going to be like a three-year run. and then they weren't. And next year, obviously, without Tatum. Tatum is fine if he misses four games, two games. When he misses the season, you can just, it's just a different ball game because Jalen Brown can be a little hot and cold offensively.

You know, Boston, and again, there's so many smart front offices in the NBA, we both kind of agree they're going to get rid of some kind of expensive older guys. Do you think they'll go big game hunting in Boston? I don't think they'll go big game game hunting right away. I think it's got to be more of a big picture two year kind of window to make this sort of transition. Because like essentially you could take all of next year,

you own your own draft pick. So like you could be bad and that could lead into more talent coming in through the draft. There's the ability to offload, like older role players in hopes of bringing back younger role players. So like flip a Drew holiday to a team that needs a better player right away. Like for instance, like I would be calling Dallas and I would see what I could get for Drew Holiday.

Like, okay, we need a center. So they've got Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington. They, Cooper Flag is literally going to be playing the forward next to Anthony Davis, next to Derek Lively. Maybe we can turn Drew Holiday into PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford. Now I got a four and a five that could both start in this league that are 26 years old instead of 34 years old like Drew Holiday. I think those are the kinds of moves they'll be looking to make.

And then it's essentially going to be just asset accumulation in hopes of being able to pivot around Jason Tatum in that following season. But this is the challenge, Colin. I mean, the Raptors win, they lose Kauai, then they end up losing the next season, right? The Lakers win, but then Anthony Davis and LeBron get hurt. They make a tweak. They can't repeat. The bucks, they don't pay PJ Tucker.

Chris Middleton gets hurt. They can't repeat. The Warriors, Jordan Poole and. Andrew Wiggins both fall back to what they're normally like. The nuggets, they can't pay Bruce Brown and they can't pay Contavius Caldwell Pope. Suddenly they are second-tier contender. The Celtics, these windows look long, but OKC is going to have to pay all these guys. Right.

And it's only a matter of time before suddenly it's Shay and J. Dub and some lesser level talent around them. And all of a sudden, it's going to be a harder game. The NBA 82 game grind is done. Now the real fun begins. NBA playoffs. Love them. They're here. Time for drama, clutch moments. Steph Curry, LeBron, jaw-dropping plays, I can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting, Draft King's Sportsbook has you covered. They're the official sports

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And this is another shift, which I think is great for basketball. I think with the NIL, more players will stay an extra year in college or go to college. So I do think when they enter the league, they're more ready to play. I mean, we've had a lot of Jalen Greens over the last 10 years, like guys that are talented, but you just see in three years, you know, like get some polish. But if you play, you know, for Bill's self or Hurley for even one year, and maybe two. I'm not saying you're a Villanova guy,

but you're ready to play in the league. And I do think the growth and explosion of NIL money actually helps the NBA. I think Adam Silver's always known. There's, you know, it's a little bit of a liability. First of all, you want more tape on a player, so fewer players are busts. Like, NFL GMs have such an advantage.

They've got three and four years of tape, and you're kind of guessing, because college basketball coaches often control the offense. So you're like, is he a good decision maker? What am I getting? But you're going to get a couple years of tape. So you have a better evaluation. And I think you're going to get more mature players.

They're just more refined because I think college coaching and the college environment. We talked about this March Madness, you know, conference championships. Those are intense NBA feeling like environment. So I actually think basketball is in a really good place. I think, you know, baseball right now. was so lobsided, you know, where it's just like Dodgers are throwing out like eight all-star level players. They're going through massive injuries and it doesn't matter. But I think basketball is in a really good place. And I think, you know, I think when you start looking at the market,

I don't think markets have the levers they used to. Like I like watching OKC play. I'm fine with it. And I'm, I've been kind of market sensitive in my life. As a broadcaster, I always kind of looked for the bigger, more interesting markets. But I don't know. I like watching Indiana. I like, I like, okay, see, I don't have a problem with. So I'm, you know, I think the league would, you know, we all know, if New York faced Ant, it would probably be the win. I will say this. Part of me thinks Minnesota, you know, they always say styles make fights.

Like, I've gone to a lot of boxing matches and I have to watch two rounds to get really comfortable. I'm not sure. I don't have strong senses on the series. I like the experience of Minnesota. and the coaching staff, I think Oklahoma City should win, but I'm not sure. And I think Indiana is better than the Knicks. I just think they have more depth. I think, let's talk about that.

I think Indiana and Carlisle has more lineups to throw at you. He's got a little more dexterity. That's my interpretation, you. Yeah, they are, they have like, different dudes that could go for 20 plus points on any given night. And they are, they play with such pace and they play with such energy. The reason why I like the matchup with the Pacers versus the Knicks, they, the Pacers don't have a single player in this postseason call and it's averaging over 35 minutes per game. Wow. On the Knicks, Mikhail Bridges and Ojan,

and Obie are both averaging over 40. Yeah. All five starters are over 35 minutes per game. They lean on a whole lot of the heavy minutes for their core five guys. What the pacers do, as you've seen so many times already in this postseason, is you got them, you got them. You're up 13. You're up 14. And you feel like you're in good shape. But the problem is, is like they make one layup and then they pick you up full court again. And then they do it again. And they do it again. And every time you turn it over, they run it down your throat again. And they play with so much pace and so much energy. And they literally never let go of the rope. In the Knicks, as we've seen a ton of times in the Piston series and even in the Celtic series, they can have really sloppy nights where they get

undisciplined. And I think they'll pay the price against Indiana in this matchup with that. Also, like to your point, I think the Pacers are just playing really good basketball right now. They're peeking at the tail end of the season. They've been going to, they've been playing like this for the last couple months, really. They've been really cooking at this level. Tyrese Halliburton is playing every bit as well as Jalen Brunson just in a different way because he's more of like a Steve Nash than he is a legit on-ball scoring guard. Seacum is, is, is, is, is, has a lot of similarities to OG and Obie. Aaron Neesmith is literally averaging

15 points a game in this postseason and he's knocking every three down off the game. He's shoot over 50% on open threes in this postseason run. Andrew Nemhart is just a playoff gamer who can do a little bit of everything. Miles Turner is shooting like 45% on threes in this postseason.

They are just, everyone's playing super well. They go like eight, nine deep. They never stop coming at you. I have a feeling this is the last thing I'll say about it. It kind of reminds me, Colin, of the the Golden State Warriors back in the day where they play such a unique style that there's like this shock and awe phase at the beginning of each series where it's like you're used to playing a certain type of team and then all of a sudden

here come the Warriors and they're running Stefan Clay through a million screens and it's just bizarre and they catch you off guard and they go up to O in the series and all of a sudden you're fighting upstream. The Pacers jumped the Cavs in game one. And I know Garland didn't play. That's a good Cavs team that was at home. They got punched in the mouth by the Pacers because they just, they were not ready for the way they play.

And the same thing happened to the bucks in the first round. So, like, I look at it as a kind of series where Indiana probably steals game one. And then New York is fighting upstream against a deeper team that never stops playing hard, that never plays their main guys big minutes. And I just think it's going to be too much for them to overcome. I do think that Knicks have a chance, but I would make the Pacers a decent favorite. Well, I think my take is if the games are close late, I love New York shot-making ability. I think they're really good.

I think they're very physical. They're well coached. They make shots. They're totally unselfish, but it's Brunson's team. I think if you told me there were three, you know, three 12-point games in the series, I'd take Indiana. Indiana can wear you out. But I think those, I think my, of the entire playoffs, if I had one kind of, wow, it was Jalen Brunson and the Nick shot making. in multiple games against the Celtics, a good defensive team.

Like, wow. And it really, Jason, it really made me look at the Knicks differently through a different prism. I really felt all year, go get Janus, go get Durant, you need a big piece. And I'm like, no, not really. I think you need a piece. I don't think it's a huge piece. I thought bridges, oh, gee, is just big and physical. And again, the league now is said, we're going to let guys like, oh, the league's

stylistically is playing right into what the Knicks do. I think they need, I think they need, you know, Kant doesn't defend Mitchell Robinson, you don't trust offensively. I feel like if you could morph and get a, you could get, listen, didn't we talk about this last? It was Isaiah Hartnstein, Colin. That's exactly.

It was Isaiah Hartinstein. That's right. They should have just made some sort of salary dumping trade with Julius if that's what they were going to do and just picked up Hartnstein because he would literally be perfect as the two-way folkrum for this team. Yeah, no. He is, that's exactly right.

But I don't look at the Knicks as needing a big swing. And a credit to the front office, the executive suite, which was impatient for years. The Knicks have made, like, Mikhail Bridges, I like the move. And then halfway through the season, I'm like, that's a lot of first for Michael Bridges. And then you're watching the playoffs, you're like, oh, shit, no, this works. He's a really, really good player. And he fits their culture. Yeah, the Knicks, it came together in the right way for them late in the season.

It started with a couple of different things. And mostly it comes down to me, the conversation we were having earlier, which is all season long when I watched the Knicks, I'm like, why are they bad on defense? They've got three really good, they've got three really good defenders on the floor all season. And by the way, like, Mikhail Bridges wasn't very good on defense this season. You know, Brunson and Kat were abysmal most of the season on defense. in this postseason, Mikhail has turned into one of the better point of attack guys in the league.

O'G and Anobie's literally been flying around like Prime Kauai making plays. And Jalen Brunson, outside of game five against Boston, has been very good defensively in this playoff run. And so what's happening is they're leveraging a higher level out of themselves defensively. And they've been a great offense all year long. And so it's really coming together in that way.

I just worry, to me, I just think the paces are a little bit better. I just think they're a little bit better on defense. They have a better rim protector. They're a little bit better on offense. They're a little bit deeper. That, to me, is what it comes down to. When you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey, whether

it's rye whiskey or single barrel bourbon. You're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. Well, think about this. That's why the T-Wolves beat the Lakers. And, I mean, that's really it. That's why the T-Wools beat the Warriors. I mean, if you say, well, they're deeper, that's why OKC beat Denver.

I mean, the depth thing, when you allow this level of physicality, it wears players out even more. And I think you're seeing that depth really, in my entire life, there was always two things that were true about the playoffs. It was more physical, and depth was overrated. You know, you play eight, you trust seven. And it's like, oh, no, it's more physical and depth has been huge. I don't remember a year. Well, we all know veterans tend to be kids. That's kind of a given.

But I don't remember a year to me where it was like one of the first punches is, well, they just have, they have more levers. And I think Indiana and O KC probably should win the series because of it. I mean, when Denver won the title, we didn't think. I mean, they had KCP or Bruce Brown. We didn't think depth. Yokic at the time was a poor defender. We didn't think about, we just thought, listen, they have the best player.

They were hitting on all cylinders. They had enough good guys off the bench. Depth matters. And I don't remember ever in my life being this big of a factor in the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the physicality plays a big role. I think you're right. I think that the depth is giving you the ability to withstand physicality.

I mean, ultimately, like Denver, Denver blew this series. in game four and game five, when they had fourth quarter leads and all their stars looked exhausted down the stretch while the thunder stars looked fresh and they were able to make plays. The younger, more athletic, deeper team just came on strong late in the game. I think the second thing that the physicality has done, which has actually been pretty interesting, is, do you remember Colin over the previous few years how we just had so many blowouts where it just felt like teams would go back and forth, like blowing each other out? And I think one of the things that the increased physicality is done is it's made it really

difficult to shoot threes because everyone's legs are cooked. And like even in this game seven you see like no no one's stepping like there's a whole lot of games where teams are shooting 20% from three and it's just a blood bath and I think that's dragging the games down into like everything's finishing every every

you're looking at the clock and it's 93 to 93 with eight minutes left and it's causing for a lot of great games. This is a great point because um and I and I think you're right on because I was talking about this the air day as we were preparing for a show I'm like man just there's a lot of bad three-point shooting nights.

And I couldn't quite pinpoint it. But again, I think when you get into push-push-push basketball and it's just leaning on each other, teams are tired and it brings the offense down. And I think that's a great point. In fact, what it also creates is when you're not hitting threes, you tend to, you realize that the coaching staff knows it longer the series goes. you start shooting fewer. One of the things I never liked about three-point shots is you can box out all you want. The rebounds are long and weird and you can't. And so you can have great position.

But when you're playing a more, you know, a more physical game inside the arc, you run like traditional fast breaks. You get, you know, a four-foot caram. You get it, the outlet. So the aesthetic of the fast break, like OKC did it. six, seven times over a five-minute stretch. Oh, it looked like old playoff. It looked like old college, high school, old 70s NBA fast break.

Here's the point card. Two guys in the wings fill in. A guy's backpedaling. Finish with dunks. Three-point shooting's so weird. To me, I don't like the idea of you miss. And a ball caram's 20 feet out to the corner. It stops play.

You come back up. I think I really do. This is a cliche, but it looks. It's giving me a little bit of a confidence. college feel and a little bit of an old NBA feel. And I've said this for years. I like the layered basketball more than three-point shooting basketball. And I think your point's great, is that the more, you know, the unintended benefit, I don't know if they thought about this, but the more physicality, the lousier three-point shooting, and the less you scheme up three-point shooting, you're scheming up

baskets. It feels like to me. No, absolutely. I think, I think in general, it's a better version of what old basketball looked like. It's physical, it's ugly, but you have the impressive skill level that we have in the modern NBA. And so it's kind of given us the best of both worlds. But I'm super excited for OKC Minnesota. I'm with you in the sense that I have almost no feel for it, because Minnesota was a team that was much better than their regular season looked. If you talk to any Timberwolves fan all season, they were like, we just weren't playing as hard on defense as we did last year. Minnesota is a little bit. Minnesota has some more veteran guys than you'd think, like Julius is a vet, Rudy Gober's a vet, Mike Conley's a vet.

Like they're, they've got some guys that have been around for a little while. And so they just kind of took it easy through the season. Oklahoma City, everybody not named Caruso in their rotation is 26 or younger. They've just been going crazy all 82 games. And so there are two, there are two teams that I think OKC is probably not as good as they're, they looked in the season. Minnesota is better than they looked in the regular season. Two great defenses, both anchored by both rim protection with,

Chet and Rudy Gobert and two big looks with Nas Reid as well as Isaiah Hartenstein, elite on ball guard with size that can shoot over the top. Like, Ant and Shea, just which one of them makes more jumpers over the top? Huge part of this series, because guess what? There's not going to be a lot at the rim for either team in the series. Roll player shooting. We just watched Lou Dort and Kaysan Wallace and Alis Caruso take a bunch of threes. It's going to be Jaden McDaniels.

It's going to be Julius Randall, Nakeel Alexander Walker, Dante Devencenzhenzo. I do think there's a real, like, veteran experience advantage for Minnesota. Yes, yes. But Oklahoma City also has home court advantage, and they're probably just a little bit deeper, a little bit faster. So it's, it's, that's going to be a fun one, Colin. And what, what, like, if we had to have the new guard for a playoff quarter,

final four, these are pretty interesting series. The Knicks and Pacers kind of hate each other. They've played each other in the, playoffs before. Shaver's aunt is literally the battle of the two best guards in the league right now. I think this is going to be an entertaining quarter or semi-final.

All right. Jason Timph, hoops tonight. A little shorter version as we get ready for the conference finals. I'm just going to watch the front. I'm going to take Indiana and OKC just because of depth and the coaching options. I don't

feel great conviction. I feel I feel a I think this is Ant's moment. Ants knocked a lot of good guys out of the playoffs. I mean, you start looking the last two years. Ant has knocked a lot of legends out of the playoffs. But it's not just an SGA thing. When you're watching them annihilate Denver in transition

and in the paint, I'm like, Jesus, it's just a 10 player, I mean, 10 rotation. That's just unheard of. I think I lean slightly towards Minnesota right now. I think the thing I keep coming down to is J. Dub. And again, I'm going to watch a bunch of film and I'll make my pick when I do my series preview tomorrow morning. But J. Dub was super inconsistent in this series. Julius Randall's been fantastic in this postseason run.

Jesus. I even think I trust. I think I trust Nas Reid more to score the ball than Chet in terms of over the top shooting and stuff. I think I think I trust Minnesota's experience. I'm leaning just slightly that way at this point in time. Yeah, Randall's been a revelation. And I think, it was funny, I talked to Chris Finch off the air about him. I said, well, what do you make of this?

He's like, he'll get there. He's not there yet. This was like three months ago. He's like, he's going to get there. But we're asking him to do other stuff. He's become a much better distributor. I mean, his assist numbers are up. So it's like, and he's hitting three point shop.

So, yeah, it's funny, two nicks. The shot making of Jalen Brunson and, And really a revelation in Julius Randall are my two sort of, wow. I can remember when Julius Randall was a Laker. It was becoming a three-ball league. And I can remember going to a Laker game saying, God, this guy's just a bit. He's a house. Like this guy is, his body is like a 38-year-old man.

And thinking to myself, and I remember the Lakers were cool on him because he didn't shoot three. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm getting like 18 and 8. He defends. He's always got a smile on his face. I'm like, God, if he's not an NBA player, like, what is the league? Remember when they said Zach Eady wouldn't fit? And you're like, no, no, Zach Eadie's fine in the NBA.

Like, I remember going to a Laker game watching him and thinking, dude, he's, you know, he's just really consistent, his energy is great. You know what I mean? Just like he just, he wasn't a pretty player. He was really old school. So I always love when a guy's coachable and coaches coach hard. I think Minnesota's done that with a couple of players like they. They coach hard, and the players are like they digest it, they consume it.

And it's, I don't know. I think that, you know, when Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving said, we don't need a coach, I'm like, guys, really, come on, give me a break. Like the great players all want great coaching. Come on. Yeah, the Julius Randall piece, too, he's just so physically imposing. Like, he's a much better athlete than he gets credit for. I mean, I know LeBron was 40, but he kind of kicked LeBron's butt athletically in that series a few times.

Like he ultimately that's to me what makes him a good playoff player. I thought his playoff struggles originally were a little overblown because he was just injured. He was like either playing through an injury or had just returned from an injury and was clearly out of rhythm. He had a long runway this year and was playing great right when he, like he was playing great when he got to the postseason. And he's a decent passer who legitimately can battle for position and make little short jump shots in the lane. That is going to help an NBA team in the playoffs. He just has a skill set that's kind of built for this environment. I actually think he's defended really well in this postseason.

And the one guy that I was really worried about him defensively was Steph Curry. And he got out of that matchup because of an injury. So it worked out pretty fine for him. First time in NBA history, we will have seven different champions in a seven year stretch. And I'm here for it. Jason Timph hoops tonight as always. Thanks, buddy. Good to see you, Colin.

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