The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Ohio State Buckeyes Beat Notre Dame To Win National Championship, Big Ten Has HUGE NIL Advantage Over SEC, Bears Hire Ben Johnson

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down Ohio State beating Notre Dame in the National Championship! They discuss the huge disparity in NIL money for the Big Ten compared to the SEC and why college football isn’t a fair fight due to the quality of talent and depth for teams that can pay to play and predict Texas will run away with the conference going forward (3:00).  They pivot to the NFL and react to the Bears hiring Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson and what it means for the future of #1 overall pick Caleb Williams (28:00) Finally, Colin predicts that Notre Dame will eventually end up in the Big Ten and talks about why parity in football is overrated (45:00).  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And after a great opening drive by Notre Dame, they could never duplicate it. And Ohio State, NIL should stand for not in our league. You can just, you know, listen, the number that matters now is 66,000. That's how many kids go to Ohio State. What does that matter? Because big 10 graduates don't stay. Lots of them don't stay in them. Midwest, not enough jobs. They go to the coast. They go make money and they pour it back into the

school. And so these gigantic Big Ten schools, they're not holding bake sales like Alabama and car washes like Auburn to afford the NIL. I mean, their fan bases, they've got a lot of Ohio State grads. I know two of them that are big funders of the NIL collective. And you watch that Offense, Sean? That offense is, I mean, and their offensive lines dinged up, they just got pros everywhere. I mean, it's just, I mean, Notre Dame is well coached, good defensively, cannot compete. Well, think about this. We got back-to-back years now, Michigan, Ohio State dominate and win the national championship, just full of NFL guys. When you look this year, Penn State is in the final four. Texas is now an SEC team, but come on. I mean, they've been there for 10 minutes.

Last year, Washington's in the final four. We know Oregon's not going away. I think when you look at the SEC, Alabama got there last year and Sabin's like, two days later, I'm out. So I think the, and listen, all these rulings are constantly coming out. It's a fluid situation.

But one thing we know not is ever going to go back to the way it was. More money, more funding, more cutting checks for these players. And not just Ohio State, I would say the Big Ten in general, Michigan. When I lived in Philadelphia and worked for the Eagles, usually local radio in a pro city, they talked to a lot of Penn State. Why? A lot of graduates live in that area. A lot of people went there and a lot of people watch the game. So I'm with you. I think the Big Ten have a huge advantage moving forward. Yeah. I mean, I have a place in Naples floor. It's a beautiful

beach community. Very, very high end. Sarasota Naples area. My wife introduced me to it. It's all Big Ten fans. And it, I mean, believe me, it is bad. Buckeye, Wolverine, Spartan, flags all over town. And let me just tell you, there is a lot of money in the Big Ten. Those graduates make a lot of money because I've been in Naples for about a decade now,

and I'm always amazed by it. I mean, it looks like Rodeo Drive downtown, and that is absolutely, you know, SEC fans go to what they call, I think they call it the Riviera, the Redneck Riviera or something. I've never been there. But then you go down to Sarasota,

in Naples, and that's a different level of money, and that is big 10 money. And I'll say this. A lot of people are pushing back and saying this is a one-off. No, it's not. You and I talked about this. Penn State, look at the size of these schools. Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan, Washington's a huge school. They're not, and those graduates, they leave a lot of times their area, and they're loyal. And the SEC schools, like when Alabama is, think about this, Nick Saban is one of the smartest coaches ever. Look how great of a coach he was.

NFL teams would fly down and look at how Alabama ran their program, including Belichick. Look how good of a broadcaster he is. Saban is, he's literally made game day feel huge. And everybody on that's talented. Reese, Pat, Herb Street, Howard. I mean, those guys are all talented. Nick is just makes it feel huge. Car dealerships, the way he has leveraged his career, just how smart this guy is. The first year the NIL opened up, Nick Saban

saw it and he got very nervous. I was told about Texas. He told his guys, we can't compete with Texas. That is oil money, it's tech money. Alabama cannot compete with Texas. He knew it. He sounded the alarms the first year. And if Saban, who's the smartest coach, arguably in college football, he's certainly on a short list, saw it coming. And he got the hell out. Nick could coach today if he wanted to. God, the guy, come and look at him on TV. He's just so magnetic and dynamic. Nick's a sharp dude. He knows the truth is that Georgia's got some money. Tennessee's got some money. I think the tide. Remember, Washington's in Seattle. They don't have a huge collective, but Jedfish can recruit. Last year was a rebuilding year. They're going to be closer to Oregon than

Iowa going forward. Listen to this. USC's collective now is over 20 million. They've already spent 30 million for the next 18 months. They have to figure out how to pay all these bills. I think the SEC knows it. I think the smart people in that conference can see it before it's happened. But this year and last year, watch the games. There is a game. Notre Dame beat Georgia and controlled Georgia. They got one off the field tonight. Totally. I think, listen, you and I, and I turned into an SEC fan during the Sabin era, why was the best players? It was the best games. They still have the best talent. The reality now is when Kirby, back in the day, Bobby Bowden, Davos Sweeney, all the Southern coaches knocked on your door,

you were going to go to one of those schools. Now they just call your agent and say, hey, they're offering your 500 grand. We'll offer you $8.50 and some side cash that you want to pay taxes on. It's not a fair fight, and that's what this has turned into. It is strictly paid to play. It's why I laugh, like forever a great recruiter, obviously to become a great recruiter. You had to have a personality, but you also had to be at a program that offered you a lot, right? It might even could pay you a little under the table.

Now there's, we don't even, you know, beat around the bush on that. It's like, no, a great recruiter is someone that can offer me $800,000. I mean, the guy was the quarterback that was going to play for Brian Kelly Underwood, he was going to LSU. And then he ended up at Michigan, not because he loves Sharon Moore and Tom Brady and Dave Portnoy. Because they paid him like $12 to $15 million. Even Brian Kelly's like, yeah, we can't pay him that much. We don't have the money.

Look at Nebraska last year. Now, Kirby is... Look at Michigan State's boosters. One of them is the guy that owns... the calves, the other one's the guy that owns the sons. So it's like, it is going to be, they got the talent, but these big tent, Urban started it years ago, right, when he went from Florida to Ohio State said, we got to get in the South and recruit the players.

Well, now everyone knows that, but they can just cut the check. So I'm going to be, I think Texas, like you mentioned, Sabin, I didn't know that he said that, but I mean, he's got ears, eyes and a brain. I mean, it's not hard to figure out. I think A&M as well. I think the two Texas schools that are in the, SEC have a massive advantage financially. Because that's the world we're in. Can you pay the players or not the most? That's where they're going to go. Look at this. I was talking to, during the course

of this season, I was talking to a general manager. And he said, let me tell you who's going to be number one next year. Take quarterbacks out. He goes, Caleb Downs is going to be number one next year. He goes, that kid would start for every single NFL team as a sophomore in college. He goes, There's not an NFL team he wouldn't start for. And then I texted him. That was midseason. I texted him before this game. And he said, if, because it's a very weak draft, he said, if Jeremiah Smith, the receiver

for Ohio State and Caleb Downs were available, he's like, these quarterbacks are not good enough. He goes, Cam would probably go over those players because Tennessee needs a quarterback. He said, would they go two and three? He's like, these kids are, I mean, when you watch Jeremiah Smith and, and. And Caleb Depp, they don't even look like college players. It reminds me when Jamar Chase was at LSU. Like, it's sophomore year, you're like, okay, this is a pro receiver who would start.

He would make, he would start for every team in the NFL the year before he went and left LSU. You could argue, I mean, what's really going to separate are the top five or six programs because of the money. And obviously, Ohio State and Oregon are in clearly the top tier. Texas. And I would throw Texas A&M in there. I mean, they got a little. taste of being back this year of being good and being right there. They have unlimited money. That's the sport now. What happened to Michigan this year? They finally won a national championship.

Then they started getting embarrassed and they said, what do you need? What do we need? We don't want to do this ever again. So that's what, and listen, I started at Fresno State. That program wouldn't have existed. I don't know how they maintain it. The Logan Mankins, the Ryan Matthews, Washington State, how are they going to function moving forward? The moment you get a guy, Yeah, that guy might be a third rounder. Oh, he's a sophomore. Every school worth their salt in his DM saying, hey, how much you want. And they leave. They just automatically leave. What we saw last year with Austin Genti, I don't think we'll ever see again.

Even the head coach this year said it. He's like, he turned down seven figures to stay here and all we could offer almost $300,000. I mean, that's the world. One day I was at the gym probably a couple months ago and I look up and his first take is just on one of the big TVs and it's a kid. and I'm like, what's going on? I think Shannon and Stephen A were talking to him. And it's the number one basketball recruit. When I got home, I googled him.

He's going to BYU next year. It's like, it's not hard to figure out. The Mormons cut that kid a massive check. And that, listen, I have no problem with that. I mean, that's, in a weird way, that's what I would say the sport has always been, basketball and football, you know, financing these. I got no problem with it. But that is 100% the world we're living in now.

And it's really separating at the top. I mean, think about your guy Lane, Ole Miss this year. They break the bank and then they don't even make the playoffs. Are they less likely to keep breaking the bank when you don't have results? Yeah. And I also think this is coaches will get poached. You know, a prime example is, John, it's harder to fire a college basketball coach because he can go to his boosters, his donors, and his A.D.

And go, I've made the tournament 12 straight years. Okay. you can't get rid of Sark. If Sark makes the playoff, and he will, 10 to the next 11 years, you're not going to get rid of him if he can win a game or two here and there. And my point being is, so these coaches now are going to make enormous money, like better than NFL money for a lot of these guys. Can the SEC schools pay for that? I mean, let's just say tomorrow. Let's say one of the coaches in the Big Ten doesn't work. Ryan Day's fine. Ryan Franklin's guy. I mean, most of the guys are fine. But let's say, for instance, a school goes and offers Lane Kiffin

a job. And in the Big Ten, they say, here's $12 million. Can an SEC school fund their collective and pay the football head coach, not the staff, $20 million. This is going to funnel down to the coaches. Now, a lot of these guys are sudden guys. They've been giving up their money, Colin. Brian Kelly gave a million dollars to help fund the collective. Did you see that story? A couple like a month ago. He gave a million dollars of his own salary to the collective. Why? Because L.S. Do you think you have to do that at Ohio State? But no, it's hard for him to say I'm making $9.5 million in the collective were a little short. And then you start getting heat when Underwood goes to Michigan. It's like, well, I got to give in a little bit. That's, to me, was a pretty big red flag for

LSU. He had to give a million dollars of a salary. So if you telling me that, I didn't hear that story. So Sabin's saying, get me out of here. Brian Kelly giving up a million. Listen, for years and years, the SEC, and it was just on everybody knew it. They were paying kids through the churches. But I'm talking paying a kid $100,000, $1,000.50. That is doesn't even, I mean, it just doesn't even compete. And I think, I'll just say it now.

The SEC may never get worse than the second best conference. but if the Big Ten truly cares going forward, they will control college football going forward. And, you know, for the record, Michigan won last year, Ohio State won this year. You see, Penn State, outside of Carter, and that tight end returns everybody. Penn State, and they're going to be back Drew Aller.

Penn State next year loses a great tied end and a great, then these are first-round players, but Michigan next year, Washington, Ohio State. Oregon. Oregon's still really good. Like the Big Ten, this was a little bit of a down year.

Let's be honest. Michigan and a rebuild. Washington in a rebuild. Caleb William leaves. USC in a rebuild. All those teams should be better next year. Well, the other thing is, and you mentioned Michigan State with their big boosters. I mean, I'm sure you agree.

I think Jonathan Smith's a stud, and this is the worst team he's going to have coach in there. So they will be better. I mean, he's a high-level coach. Nebraska funneling it in a bunch of money. I think the problem for the SEC is for about 15 years in the Sabin era and when other teams would kind of match them

like LSU on a given year, obviously Georgia at the end. Clemson was basically, as my buddy Phil Savage used to tell me, they were in their heyday, in SEC school playing an ACC schedule, but they had SEC players. Well, their backups, right,

when you start training camp, and you don't know who at the time of freshman or sophomore, who's going to kind of separate you just let them battle it out. And then the one guy that wins the job ends up being the first round pick. Well, his backup is still a fourth rounder.

And if that guy gets injured, you know, in the seventh game of the season, your backup's still a fourth rounder. Well, now that guy goes, I'm out. And all these other programs are lined up to take him. And he's like, well, I might as well make the same amount of money and go start than be a backup. That was their biggest advantage, I always thought, is they're too deep.

was the last, like right at the beginning of the NIL, right before the NIL, when Kirby was basically turned Georgia into Alabama, he went too deep with like, my first rounder is my starter and my backup is a second rounder. Good luck touching me. And you didn't. Well, we saw this year they were a shell of themselves. And it's going to be difficult to just maintain that dominance because they do have the talent in the region. But these other schools just, we got technology now, can just send you the offer contract on docket. sign. I was like, here's the money, buddy. You want to come? And what do you think their parents and agents are clearly saying? Ohio State's been doing it since Urban got there. But then

Harbaugh started getting involved. We know Oregon's going to keep funneling out of the SEC in the South. Really, Mario started that. Penn State, like the one thing you say, all those guys going back at Penn State, one thing James Franklin is, is a great recruiter. But if you give him money, his energy and his effort, I do think Texas is going to run the SEC moving forward. So do I. I mean, listen, I see a fair fight. Yeah, SEC fans can say what they want. They kept saying, Bama is in big trouble.

LSU is in big trouble, big trouble. Georgia, because they're close to Atlanta, there's some big boosters there. But remember, Atlanta's got the Braves, the Falcons. I mean, they've got, you know, they've got a lot of things happening in Atlanta. It's a very splintered market. Yeah, I think we're talking when we say trouble, right?

The day of going 12 and O and winning that is you still might win eight, nine games, but you're never going to be what probably we've seen in the past. Oh, yeah. I don't even think, I mean, that's not even a take. That's not a hot take. I mean, the SEC, the days of running it are over back-to-back years. And again, I'll say it again. Ohio State next year, Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs, the two best players in the college

football next year are both back. And, you know, I mean, and now you're going to, how you think the recruiting is going to go, transfer portal is going to go off this win. I mean, the players, listen, man, those star players, they watch what Ohio State is tonight. It's a factory up there. They're rolling. It looks like Ryan Day and Chip Kelly. I mean, I thought the game plan tonight for Ohio State looked like a pro game plan.

I mean, the way, if you watch the game plan tonight for Ohio State, those first two drives, it was so Chip Kelly. Let's build up Will Howard's confidence, easy completions, get the ball to the playmaker. It was just, I mean, I watched enough Chip. Kelly games. And I'm like, oh, this is a clinic. This is Chip Kelly, who probably doesn't think Will Howard's an elite player, but within the system, he can get those 12-yard and incompletions. He's accurate. Notre Dame never made Will Howard uncomfortable. I mean, he just, and this is a beat-up old line. I mean, he was, Will Howard was sitting back there at one point. I don't know what, he was six for six, seven for seven on third down. Notre Dame just couldn't make him uncomfortable.

I would say this. If you've watched Chip Kelly since Oregon, if he's busting explosive, runs, you got no shot. And the moment they start hitting big runs, you're in trouble, especially with the firepower they have to throw the ball, because then what are you going to do? Stack the box and let them exploit you. And say what you want about Will Howard. I questioned it coming into this playoff run. Colin, in the first half, he was 14 at 15 for two touchdowns.

And he's just, you remove the Texas game, which was a difficult just endeavor for him, given how good Texas is on defense. he was dominant in the three matches against Tennessee, which has NFL personnel on defense. Obviously, Oregon is loaded with NFL players. And tonight, just national championship Notre Dame to come out. He's played really, he's made himself some money. I'm not saying he's going to get drafted in the second day, but I think he's getting drafted somewhere between the fourth to the sixth round.

Versatile player throws a good ball. I think the kid at Syracuse, Kyle McCord and Will Howard are going to get drafted late third, fourth, early fifth round, both big, strong, sturdy kids who throw a nice ball with velocity. They'll be fine. I think McCord, if he has a good, you know, this post-season before the draft process, could go on the second day of the draft. Where I think Will Howard, just because he throws more of a pure bowl,

just from the pocket. I looked at him on YouTube today. He throws a really nice, yeah. And you know how these quarterback coaches are, these offensive coordinators are, when you're just sitting out there. I think there's just an element to Will Howard. And I would say the same about Riley Leonard. They're just kind of good football players.

I don't know how good they would look just in a, just shorts, T-shirts, throwing routes on air in front of the head coach. I mean, they're not exactly throwing it like Josh Allen out there. And they're good runners, but they're not running. You know, what Riley Leonard does,

and it's fun to watch is that, does that translate to the NFL just running over guys? That's hard. And that's, that's, but, Listen, he grew on me over this run. He's clearly a high-level guy. And I think both of them are going to be loved by once the coaches get into the draft process because they're clearly like just high-level kids.

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Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

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The Chicago Bears hired Ben Johnson. the story had leaked. There was a lot of rumors that Ben Johnson, the coordinator for the lion's offensive coordinator, was going to go to the Raiders. That was probably Ben Johnson's people leaking it. So it looked like he was going to the Raiders because they couldn't quite get everything they wanted. He won't be able to choose, I imagine, his own general manager. When the story came out, I said this today on TV, when the story came out of the Raiders and Ben Johnson, I'm like, bro, that's the worst opening. I don't like it at all. I will say this. About a week ago, Caleb Williams said, I didn't think it was subtle. I'd like an offensive coach. Remember he said,

I'd like a leader of men, vague, doesn't mean anything. And then I'd like an offensive coach I could grow with. That would be nice. And I think that was kind of like, guys, I'm not going to demand anything. I'm not going to be publicly difficult. Get me an offensive coach. And that tells you, and this was what Brady said about Belichick in the documentary, and I've heard enough of Brady behind the scenes on Belichick saying, listen, Bill just didn't even know our terminology. It's not a criticism of Bill. They live in a different world. I mean, look at Bill's offensive drafting. Look at Tomlin's offensive lines and run game. They just don't know. We talked about this yesterday. Damico Ryan's not calling a time out for Houston. Like defensive coach, it's a different language. And I,

And I just, I think Ben Johnson will get the best out of Caleb Williams. That may not be Jaden Daniels. He may never throw like Michael Pennix. But I think he'll get the best out of Caleb. And at this point, if you can get him right and all of a sudden in three, four years, you're working on a second contract by Chicago bear quarterback standards, John, that's a win. Today is a day to celebrate if you're a Bears fan. You got the guy that every one of these teams with an opening would have hired.

Maybe not counting the Cowboys, not quite sure what's going on down there. But all the other teams, the Raiders wanted him. He wouldn't interview with the Jets. They'd hire him yesterday. Obviously, the Jags wanted him. This is a, I was thinking about it today. You know, Sean McVeigh, when he got hired and Kevin O'Connell weren't as famous, definitely Sean, as they've become.

And same with Kevin O'Connell. I would say it's kind of Josh McDaniels, Kyle Shanahan. You know, when Mark Davis hired Josh McDaniels, that was a pretty big deal. Definitely when Ballard tried. And when the Niners hired Kyle Shanahan, this young guy dominating on offense felt like this guy's a star. And a lot of people were interested in them. That's what they got today. And they got, they essentially, Tom Brady wanted someone and he chose the Bears.

Now, I told you last night, even if Tom Brady wants you and is a great salesman and you like Tom Brady and I don't blame you, I'd want to work with Tom Brady, too, if I was Ben Johnson. He doesn't live in Vegas. and, you know, the partner that bought in from the VC firm, he's in New York. You're still going into the building every day, even if you get to hire your own GM and Mark Davis is there every day. Like, that's a fact. So unless Tom was going to sell his compound in Florida and South Florida and come to Vegas, like, it's great, Tom. You can text them all the time.

It's not the same as, you know, when John Elway ran the Broncos, he was there. So I always thought that was a little weird. Now, I understood Ben Johnson talking, Ben Johnson's 38 years old. Tom Brady talking Tom Brady's like talking to. a football Jesus. So I would imagine he took him seriously, but, you know, he just, when you coach in a division, think how well he knows the personnel on this team. And think how comfortably he is, too, he's been hesitant to take one of these jobs. Look at last year. I mean, that Washington job was a pretty damn good opportunity. And a lot of people thought about it. Obviously, they've exceeded

expectations, but it's like, you've got a young GM that knows what he's doing. You've got the second overall pick. You've got a new owner. And he's like, no. And I think he was unsure. Well, now he takes the Bears job, which I think we all agree. He's a little weird still with Kevin Warren and Ryan Poles, but he knows the lions like the back of his hand, regardless of whoever they hire as a defensive coordinator when Glenn leaves. The Vikings and the Packers, he's been playing against for years. So he knows the players, he knows the coaches. And obviously he knows this team well. So I think there's a comfort level of just staying in the division for a young guy that's been hesitant. You know, some guys are just, I want the job, I want the job. Shaw McVeigh, Kyle Shane,

They were just right. Josh McDaniels way back in the day. This guy really took his time, which is, I would say rare in a profession that's full of like alpha ambition. There's just no holding it back, which I respect. But this is, there's going to be a lot of, this is a unique for, you know, there would have been no pressure with the Raiders, right, the first year or so. There's pressure here. You can't win five or six games and everyone's, you don't have to win 12, but you got to be in the wild card mix next year with this roster, don't you? Yeah, I think so let me push back on this. Here's what worries me about Ben Johnson. Number one, it's a big lift. It's a dysfunctional organization. Culture changers never whiff.

They may not win Super Bowls, but the Pete Carrolls, the Mike Vrabbles, the Jim Harbaugh's, like Dan Campbell. They come in, they change the culture. You can eventually find good coordinators. Yeah. Coordinators, however, often miss badly. And there is a little, think about coordinators. who were highly recommended. Brady recommended Josh McDaniels. Peyton Manning heavily promoted Adam Gase, and they didn't work. Both were a little quirky. I mean, Josh McDaniels was offered the Colts job,

accepted, and then did a U-turn and left it. Very quirky. Ben Johnson, mid-flight, I don't want the job. Adam Gase, Peyton Manning, adored him, loved him, promoted him, disaster, weird, press conference, odd guy. Ben Johnson is a little quirky. He's got a little Adam Gase and a little Josh McDaniel.

I know Josh. I like Josh. But when McVeigh got the job and you watched his first press conference, like guys thought he was cool, women thought he was hot. Like, it was like, whoa, what are we watching? This guy ain't McVeigh as a personality, not even close. No, no. And that's my thing.

There's a little quirky to him, a little odd to him. his personality, he's a little reticent, he's a little withdrawn. So I'm not saying he can't work, but I'm saying if you told me he was going to be McVeigh or closer to Adam Gase or Josh McDaniel, based on what I've seen of his personality, it's the latter to. Yeah, to me, he's not McVeigh personality. You know, Kyle can be a little weird. Yeah, he can.

The difference though with Kyle is when the 49ers hired him, 17, he had been a coordinator for going on close to 10 years at multiple spots. He'd been in Cleveland. He'd been in Atlanta. He'd been with his dad. He'd been at Houston. So he had seen it all for a guy that was 37, 38 years old. He was very... And his dad was a legendary coach. Yeah. He'd been around football's whole life, but even just his own experience as a coordinator, four different teams, seen it all, and got to go to a place that was a disaster, no expectations with John Lynch, who hadn't been a GM, but anyone who's ever met John Lynch, he ain't kind of. fail at anything. He's like a Steve Kerr. Like put him in a position, it will succeed, and they got to ease into it. This is not that situation. I actually think he's, I've been watching his press conference this year. I think he's kind of gained more confidence in himself. I think if you watch him in his first couple years, he was kind of just kind of whispered. He was just not confident. I think he's definitely gained some confidence. But think about the two people running this organization now. A first time head coach who just for a couple of years was almost

scared of taking that role. and a GM who's under 40 and has felt at times to be a little over his head. Former offensive linemen, but he drafts like he's a wide receiver. It's a little bizarre in an organization that's not pretty dysfunctional. Say what you want about Dan Campbell. We're going to learn a lot about him moving forward without the coordinators. Dan Campbell ain't scared of shit. Parcells, Peyton, they want that guy right next to him.

So he's Taylor-Mate, like Dan Campbell would walk right into the Bears and they would be better. This is, everyone's going to be looking at you. Starting with the quarterback who's got some issues right now. And that's the elephant in the room, too, because there's, like, the pressure of saving Caleb, right? And the added, you know, gasoline on this fire is the Jaden Daniels phenomenon, right? So it's like, that plays a part in it. It's like, well, the guy that we passed on is at Washington becoming one of the greatest players we've ever seen. And if Drake May starts to look incredible, these are the things.

It's a very hard. Now, I just read before we hopped on, he got $13 million a year. So financially, he's in a different stratosphere. he was already a multi-millionaire, but now he gets a five-year, a $13 million contract. Dennis Allen, that's a good first hire. A mature, good defensive coordinator,

has been a head coach, perfectly suited to be a number two. Like, that's a high-level hire. And their defense is going to be good. But it's, I say this all the time. Like, as an offensive coordinator, when someone gets a DUI on defense, Ben Johnson's ever had to deal with that in Detroit.

Dan did. You know, when the special teamer gets in a fight on the sideline, that's not Ben's problem. when James and Williams gets in trouble. Dan and the GM deal with that, you just figure out who's next on the roster. All that stuff is now on your desk when you're used to just draw on the place. It's a, there's a lot on your plate being a head coach with stuff that has nothing to do with the game. Well, and that's why one of the advantages McVeigh had, not only is he a sharp guy, but golf was low maintenance. Like golf was just, I mean, like one of the things that was really tough for Matt LaFleur, first job,

Aaron's not low maintenance. It makes it harder. So, you know, it's when you start looking at this, a guy like a Vrable, you know, older coaches Harbaugh, they can deal sort of with, you know, the veteran quarterback with an ego. But if you start looking around, I was thinking about this. Drake May, quiet kid, Jaden Daniels, quiet kid, Justin Herbert, quiet kid. You start looking around at these guys, Josh Allen, total team. guy. I didn't even put Bo Nix and Panics pretty low-key guys. Yeah, I mean, Lamar Jackson is like, and you know something? Mahomes family, maybe a little quirky. Mahomes is like a dude. You could go have beers with Mahomes tonight. One of the things you start looking at, one of the criticisms of Caleb was he's emotional, like he's got his stuff. I don't know if that is true. I like him. But you start looking at it. You have poor owners, disconnect. Kevin Warren's political, Ryan Poles Young. Caleb is not Jaden Daniels the personality. He was the first NIL star, the first $5 million a year NIL star. And Chicago's got a very loud, fairly

relentless media, which all the teams in Chicago stink, so they're just angry and tough. I think the Chicago job is hard. I think they should be happy they have Ben Johnson. But I said he, would have been my second choice. McCarthy is dealt with Jerry, Aaron Rogers, a meddling owner, no owner, big brands. McCarthy was my choice, but I know he's not sexy. And I know Ben is, but McCarthy would not have failed. I could see Ben Johnson after about two years going, the hell did I get myself into? To me, I understand if you're in the Bears, you have to take this swing, because you're just hoping that this is some version of LaFleur, O'Connell, McVeigh, Kyle, if he's closer to Mike McDaniel, you're in trouble, given your division.

Like, you got to hope he's one of those four. There was another quirky guy was Mike McDaniels. The media loved him. He was quirky. Quirky doesn't necessarily work in this league. I would say the one, at least the way he coaches, he is a physical, like a run game-oriented guy. The question is, is that Dan forcing him to do that because of the personnel that he supplies

them with? because a lot of times, like, I don't think Dan's calling double passes to James and Williams down 10. I don't know if that's. He's inclined to do that. I have no problem with taking the swing. I always say this about a draft pick high. Like, take the guy with the traits because if it does work out, you get Josh Allen, rather than thinking you can get a high floor guy like Mack Jones and Kenny Pickett,

they are just as likely to bust, so you might as well swing for the fences. But, like, if you tell me Pete Carroll gets the Raider job and Mike McCarthy gets the Jets job, Like, we have a pretty good idea. Those guys just know what they're doing. And, like, you do have Caleb Williams, so you could have made the argument of just hire Mike McCarthy. He can get the train on the tracks. And maybe within a year, it would be nine wins. That was my argument.

Mike would get the train on the tracks guaranteed. This could be, you know, an Iber Fluse version all over again. It 100% could because. I don't think it will. But I will say this. I do think there's a gays. Josh McDaniel, there's a feel that he's a little different personality-wise. He's not corporate.

He's kind of his own dude. I think the thing that makes me nervous is the alignment in the organization. You know, he pulls, is polls fighting for his job. You got Kevin Warren doing who knows what. The stadium situations, a big elephant in the room with the organization. Like, they haven't really made progress. They pulled out of the suburbs. You know that area better than me.

I just read these articles. but that's kind of up in the air. You got Kevin Warren who really likes to be involved in football, but when it goes bad, like he's not sitting there at the dais next to the coach. You just got an owner who, did you see the reports today that he was very uncomfortable cutting these checks? It's like, guys, the going rate for these coaches is now $10 to $13 million. You get $450 million from the league based on the media rights deal.

This is not a fickle business. You're in these guaranteed contracts of billions of dollars. If you are worried over the difference of, well, I'm used to paying guys $7 or $8 million to now we have to pay a guy 12 or 13, that's hard to operate that way as an organization. It really is. And this team, the McCaskies, their kids are running it, feel a little like they got no clue what they're doing. And the problem is they entrust, you know, before it was Ted Phillips, now it's Kevin Warren, these people that play such a huge role because these guys,

aren't that comfortable in business besides just saying no. Like the one thing you get with Robert Kraft or you get with Jeffrey Lurie, they're very comfortable in a negotiation over billions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, Kraft negotiates the TV deal for the NFL. He's like, he's the go-to owner. So the some of these owners, and this is what I've always respected about Mark Davis. He doesn't have anywhere near the money the bears have. He was cutting a hundred million dollar. He was taking big swings on coaches because he knew. If I get this right, we'll win. He just always gets it wrong. And this is like, it feels like this is what the media pressured them to do.

So they did it. And you can't, no one's really going to say anything negative. Like we can nitpick them, but everyone wanted this guy. But in a couple years, I just worry, you know, Caleb, the holding onto the ball, Sean Payton's a big believer that's not a coachable attribute out of a player. You can improve, we've seen now, you can improve accuracy. But the holding on to the ball is a major concern. And you saw it with Sam Darnel.

He's always had it. And then it kind of creep back up in the biggest moment. It's almost like a golf swing. It's just muscle memory in a pressure pack spot. It's just something to keep an eye on. How did he coached Jared Guff? Snap, get rid of the ball. Snap, get rid of the ball.

They were not holding the ball long. That's not the offense he coached. So that's an interesting dynamic. The offense Caleb ran with Lincoln is a lot different than the offense. I watch Ben Johnson coached with Jared Guff. No question. All right. We gave you about 35 minutes.

John Midlakov, congrats to the Ohio State Buckeyes, NIL, not in our league. I think the Big Ten going forward will be the programs and the conference of note. I think Texas and Georgia and LSU and Alabama will always be viable. But I think John and I have kind of believe this, that these massive Big Ten universities and these boosters donors and these alumni bases in the Big Ten are actually. affluent. They're all over the globe, and they love their Big Ten sports. So, um, would you include, would you include Notre Dame in that, in that Big Ten region? I think Notre Dame is going to end up in the Big Ten. I think they really do. I think eventually, I think academically, they match the Big Ten. Yeah. I think eventually they go like AFC, NFC, right? The SEC, ACC kind of merge.

Notre Dame, maybe a Stanford kind of merged in the Big Ten, and you get two major conferences. and you play each other for the playoffs, Super Bowl. I mean, isn't that where we're headed? Well, that's what the networks wanted. That's what ESPN and Fox had in mind was, let's make this more like the NFL. We pay the players, two major conferences. You can let a couple schools in from the ACC and the Big 12 or a Mountain West. It was going to be qualifiers and negotiations.

They're going to extend this to 14 teams. My guess, they're going to tweak it here very quickly. So 14 teams will allow two ACCCs and a couple of. of Big 12s or a Mountain West. You're going to get people. You're going to have to run the table or be very, very exceptional. I can see a Utah. You know, it's a very proud program, Utah, going like, you know, 10 and 1 and getting in in Clemson. But this is the future of college football. And you can complain all you want. You know, let me, let me end it with this. So nobody wants in America. and the last thing Trump followers want is socialism.

But the NFL is pretty close to it. You know, there's a salary cap. You know, if you're good, you draft later. They try to keep it even. And yet we've had back-to-back dynasties, chiefs and patriots. The Dodgers have pulled away. SEC and the Big Ten, they'll pull away. In individual sports, tennis, you know, F1, you have dominance.

We are so terrified. of, I mean, the NBA, I told Adam Silver this when I had him on, you guys worried too much about dynasties. And my takeaway, in the 1970s, you didn't have a dynasty. And it was, the league was in trouble. The minute the 80s arrived in the 90s and you had dynasties, the ratings exploded, is that there's about 5% of the world that's really great at what they do, either it's quarterbacks or college basketball coaches and were so terrified. Like, everybody thought that expanding college football to more teams was more fair. No, it's really heightened what we already knew. There's about five brands annually with a chance. And we're just shifting from southern brands

to northern brands. But in the end, this is really, if anything else, it's been, it's really highlighted a truth because now we're seeing, you know, these teams like SMU or a Boise State forced in the first round to play them and eventually on the road. So the gap now, a lot of times you'd argue yourself into, I think, I think Hawaii. Remember that Hawaii team could play with George. And then they meet and then they meet and you're like crap. Well, now we're going to get four of those a year. And so everybody is looking, you know, we're not a country. We don't even like the word socialism. NFL does the best job at it. Dynasties and greatness. there's just very few people.

It could be Wall Street or Main Street that are great. And you're seeing the Chiefs. You know, I mean, Buffalo and the Chiefs are going to be dominating the AFC until those two quarterbacks are out of their prime. And Ohio State, and I can tell you right now, there's five college football programs. They're going to win a majority of the programs titles over the next 10 years. Easily. I'll never forget that Hawaii left tackle.

I don't think he touched the Georgia pass rusher all night long. The guy was around him. I think it was called Brennan RIP. You thought it was going to get murdered about a quarter in. You're like he's going to get hurt. That was, that looked like JV versus varsity. Yeah. And so I like where we're at, but I'm never trying to talk myself into parody.

It doesn't exist in any business I've ever been in. Hell, podcasting started. And it was within three years of podcasting, separation. legalized gambling, fandle draft kings, very quickly separated. It's just, you know, AI. There's going to be four companies that control the rest of our lives. So once you don't have, once you don't try to talk yourself into the impossible, ultimate parity, you'll be much happier.

And college football, it's still the big dogs. I don't think any, now, nobody will go undefeated anymore. You're not going to get 16 and 0, forget it. But Ohio State is going to win. several Maddies over the last decade, over the next decade. Yeah, it pains me to say, but they're definitely not going to go away. I was thinking about today, this is the fourth time in five years that the bills, Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes, are meeting either in the second or the championship game.

And the Eagles, who have been to the playoffs four straight years with Jalen, they're hosting their second NFC championship game in three years. So it's like, yeah, the usual suspects here. And the Washington came out of nowhere, truly remarkable. They might be here a lot if this guy is really this good. They're going nowhere. John Middlakov, his podcast three and out. Good talking to you, buddy.

See you, Colin. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

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