The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - OKC Thunder Are UNSTOPPABLE, Notre Dame’s Tone Deaf Complaints, Caleb Williams Comp? Shedeur Better Than Expected

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1. They start with the red-hot 24-1 Oklahoma City Thunder and why they are positioned to go on a 5+ year run of sustained success due to smart management & analytics rather than money like the Dodgers do in baseball (3:00). They debate whether the goal of parity is achievable and whether it’s good for sports (9:30). They discuss why the influx of Asian fans really helps the MLB but the international stars in the NBA doesn’t move the needle in the same way, and the varying importance of star players to their respective sports (13:00). They weigh in on Notre Dame’s complaints about being left out of the college football playoff despite not being a member of a conference and why the whining is not surprising (27:30). They also discuss how the playoff & conference realignment  has led to the death of bowl games and some great rivalries (34:00). They talk about why the “influencer” nature of Shedeur Sanders scared teams away from drafting him and why he’s proven to be much better than GM’s and scouts thought he’d be, but Danny cautions that it’s too soon to label him a franchise quarterback (40:30).  Finally, they  highlight the tremendous progress and improvement Caleb Williams has made in year two. Colin argues that his comp is a “shorter Josh Allen” and Danny counters with a “young Aaron Rodgers” (53:00) (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Volume. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is basically Santa this year. NFL games on Christmas Day streaming live. At one Eastern Cowboys Commanders, Dallas is suddenly red hot. Could play big for the NFC playoff picture. Then at 430, you've got the Lions struggling against the Vikings. That's Midwest Football Playoff Stakes. Two teams battling it out for the number one seed last year. Must win for Detroit. So watching holiday football is a tradition, the whole family

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They're coming. And they're going to come in different forms. When the Lakers dominated forever, it wasn't that they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Bus was cool. And the Laker girls were cool. And the weather in the winter and a winter league was great. And so people liked playing there. And then Pat Riley went to the Miami Heat.

And he sold the same thing. Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter and weather. So they won on weather, cool, not the most money. Duke basketball, one on resume and Mike Schohefsky. NIL, by the way, now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country. Is it unfair? There is no even. So Oklahoma City is not only 24 and 1, but analytically the best defensive team ever.

They are, I mean, they're blowing people out for two years. Now, the playoffs are different, right? but they're going to have three first-round picks this year and could win the lottery, could have the number one pick. And if you look at their eagulless roster, their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the deepest ever, they could have a five-year run. Their advantage has simply been they're smarter, the more efficient. And the new CBA, I would argue, is more punitive to ineffective GMs.

It punishes them more. I'll throw one more stat at you. In 1989, the richest people in the world had $1.3 trillion. They now have 17 times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The point is, you can't legislate fair or even, even socialism doesn't perfectly work. And that when I look at OKC and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers are an interesting dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money is their advantage and deferring payments. But it's watchable. OKC did it do analytics. It's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver wants everybody, he wants parody and I think it's idealistic. When the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis, skiing, women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender-free.

And that baseball and the NBA should both embrace the money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities. People want to live in certain cities. They don't want to live in Kansas City. They want to live in New York and L.A. and Boston and Chicago. And so when I watch Oklahoma City's dominance, I say, well, at least the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that it's money. At least it's captivating.

At least it's interesting. So I know you don't agree with that. I laid out my take is the NBA of all the pro leagues, everything is going up. NIL has made the rich richer, right? Everything's going up. Basketball's not because it's got parity. And nobody really truly wants parity, nor is it good for the business model. Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little bit of causation correlation there.

Like, you think that basketball's ratings are not going up because of parity? I think ratings were up in Kansas City for the Royals when they were good. They were down when they're bad. Generally speaking, my guess is the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. Right. That would be my guess, right? And so, like, do the Thunder have a fan base that is national or international? Obviously not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presti's genius, happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in L.A. and the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all of global sports, has for baseball? Of course not. But, like, if it would. flipped and the analytically brilliant thing that you call boring in basketball happened to be occurring for the Bulls or the Celtics or the necks? My guess is the ratings would be up. And if the thing that the team that like happens to have the best local TV deal in baseball

was a small market brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the ratings would be up that way. Like, I think it's, I think it's the Dodgers that is, it's captivating because it's the Dodgers and it's boring, quote unquote, to people because it's Oklahoma City, not necessarily, because dynasty, I agree with you. Dynasties, generally speaking, drive interest. Oh, yeah. The Patriots, the chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers, like, but the Spurs, when they were a dynasty, weren't slaying in a national TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't, I don't know that I agree that I think it's like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football where everything rates, right?

Yeah. So I guess basketball and baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent. Well, I think, I guess my ultimate point is stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players want to play where they want to play. There's too many franchises. There's greed all over sports from the ownership position. And I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking.

The NBA's become, to me, kind of fear-based on this. Like, they want to tell you it's a player first league, but then they limit where players can go. Whoever drafts them, whatever, you know, morbid, boring, bad team drafts them, you are punished for ever wanting to go play where you'd want to live in the winter. You're punished, right? Like Sacramento, no player wants to live in Sacramento. Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City.

But you're punished economically if you're going, like, I'm going to go live in Miami or I'm going to go live in Chicago. You're punished. But if they didn't have those rules, is there any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win? Yeah, Oklahoma City is doing it now. Well, but no, but they had an advantage for Shea to resign. She was able to... He's a low ego, low publicity star. He doesn't care.

Like, he's a guy that would be like, yeah, I can make a little bit more money here. But it's so swayed. You can make so much more if you stay that what young man who grew up with average means is going to turn down $200 million. So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted. Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like drafts in general not being great for like labor and the workforce. I think that applies to all of the sports, right?

Like my, my brother-in-law graduates from Purdue computer engineering, and he had offers from different places, right? And he could choose. And he got to choose. And he chose very, he chose well. Like, you know, the kid works at Nvidia and like, it's gone well for him. But like, could have ended up at Hewitt Packard. would have been fine, but the dividends wouldn't be as good.

But so, yeah, like, he had options. He wasn't drafted to Nvidia. He chose Nvidia, right? So I obviously agree that that is anti-capitalistic, on American, all of those things. But I don't think that, I do think that sports would, in general, like, we can talk specific Dodgers, specific thunder, specific any point in time. I do think they, in general, would be less interesting. if the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA championship, the Dodgers and the Yankees won every World Series,

and on and on down the line. If only the big cities and only the big brands ever won, I do think it would be less interesting. We do like David and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative that's built. And I also would say, Janus's title in Milwaukee as just a basketball fan. Again, I'm watching all of them, right?

I'm watching all of them. I would argue that Janus, like, not all titles are created equal. I think we've talked about this, like in terms of how I view them. Like, Katie hates this argument, but I will contend that it is fair and logical. His titles, plural in Golden State, are not as impressive as Janus's singular title in Milwaukee. because KD, because the cap spiked in an abnormal way, and he joins a 73 win team that won before him and won after him. It's like, congratulations.

They had an owner who was willing to pay the tax, and it was aesthetically pleasing basketball and probably the best team in the history of the sport. Very cool. But Janus, 15th overall pick, skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee, signs three contract, extensions with team that drafts him. They build a new arena because of his popularity. And he has one of the great close-out NBA finals performances in the history of the

sport to bring one title to Milwaukee. To me, that is more like of a legendary title than Katie's titles, plural, in Golden State. And I don't know, I think that's kind of related to what you're talking about. I don't want to live in a sports world where Janus's title doesn't happen. I'm fine with Golden State having the dynasty. But I want Yonge's. Jokic to get his one. I want Janus to get his one. Like, I want both to exist. Here's a, um, something that somebody asked me the other day. All right. Why is it that the Asian influence actually seems to help baseball, but the international influence doesn't help the NBA. In fact, often you could argue hurts it. I have a theory behind this. It's, it's kind of one of those

think out loud, kind of think your way through it. So Otani and Yoshi, there's no question have helped baseball. This international flair helps baseball. It does very little. In fact, the international stars who are now MVP's in five or six straight years don't translate necessarily. And so I've thought about this. Can I throw this at you? always yeah because baseball like the NFL sells the team they sell the Cubs my daughter goes to a Cubs game she doesn't go i want to go watch Kyle Tucker she wants to experience Riggily and I bet you had a great time she had a great time yeah wrigley's undefeated the Cubs very defeated Riggily undefeated yeah it's it's somebody said this if Rigley was in Europe it would be like it would

you would go to it, be like, the Vatican. You've never been to Wrigley? Oh, it's over in Belfast. You've got to go. It's like one of, it's probably my favorite place in the world. I love Rickley. Yeah. So baseball sells the team.

Yankees. Now, players can help A-Rod in his prime to the Yankees sold out Tuesday, Wednesday games. Basketball is so player-driven. The league is so. much about the star is that most European players are not really interested coming over. So basketball's insistence to sell the star over the team going forward as the game gets more global and international is hurting them with ratings. Baseball sells the team.

Now, they love Otani, but it's not, I mean, Otani had a bad World Series. The ratings didn't go down. Otani, you know, if he's not pitching, you see him infrequently at the plate, is that the NFL and baseball going forward have an advantage. UFC has discovered this to a large degree. They need another John Jones and Connor McGregor. UFC is great, but they really, the stars like boxing, W.W.E. When Roman Raines didn't first hit, they're like, we need our Hulk Hogan. We need our Andre the Giant and that the international basketball player has no interest in being a big personality and the NBA has always leaned into personality over brand.

Yeah, I think that there's, I think, listen, baseball definitely sells the team. There's no question. They sell the team so much that a pretty consistent like 20 year or maybe 100 year criticism of baseball has been, why don't you market your stars more? But, you know, and they're like, we're doing okay. Like business, I always say about baseball, like, you can have $100 with a $100 bill. That's the NFL. Or you could have $100 with fives and singles, and that's baseball. Baseball is a booming, growing huge business.

They just make it from, we have a ton of inventory that a ton of people care about in a ton of places and then it all adds up. Whereas bucks, Falcons, 15 million people will watch. Right? And so there's a huge difference in just the point. popularity of the sports and how they make their money. The international, and so the NBA, obviously, burden magic, right? A little bit, Dr. Jay, but really since burden magic, it has been, wow, stars grew

the league's popularity exponentially. Jordan takes it to a level that they never thought of ever since then, star, star, star, star, star. And I don't, I think that's just the nature of the sport. Like, I don't think that is something that will ever change. I don't think basketball is dumb for, or the NBA is dumb for marketing its stars because you can go to a Dodgers game and see, it's rare, but you can see Otani go 0 for four or get shelled on the mound. You go to a Lakers game, LeBron's putting up 27, 9 and 8, and like it's, it is a bankable box office thing. But college basketball, Yukon women's, I turn it on because of the brand, Duke basketball, regardless of players. They're playing them on.

So in college basketball, men's and women's, I watch brand. It's the NBA I watch for the star. Yeah, but in college, the best players go play for the brand. Whereas in the NBA, LeBron gets drafted to Cleveland. Janus gets drafted to Milwaukee. So, like, they become the huge star in the NBA. And then, like, the psychoanalysis of a European player, not, like, Janus is in commercials. I happen to think Janus is actually.

I think of the European players, he is the best at your talking. He's funny. He's also been westernized. He now criticizes ownership. You know, he's us now, right? Right. Well, he gives incredible answers at press conferences. Yes.

Like, he really, like, thoughtful. He'll be critical to your point. He's had funny social media moments where he seems like relatable with his, with his kids on the court. I actually think, but he's not American, and it's Milwaukee and not as many people pay attention. But I do think if it was like Janus Jones, and he played for the Bulls.

He went to Duke. Yeah, yeah. I do think that he would be like, oh my God, Janice, he's going to carry the torch. He's the most popular player. So part of that's American, like, just like American bias that, you know, team. Yeah.

You know, it's just, I don't think it's, I think part of it's the European star and part of it's just, we root for Team USA, we root for the U.S. men's national team and all of that. And listen, I'm a Team USA basketball dork. Like, they got issues coming up. Like, they have to figure out some stuff because the last Olympic team still got bailed out by Stefan LeBron. I know. You know, like, and LeBron and Steph had the podcast two. weeks ago where they're like, hey, you're not going to play in 28, right? And LeBron was like, no. He's like, are you? And Steph's like, I don't think so. But like they'll be in their

mid-40s and we're asking that question. Like, I think Steph could probably still get buckets. So, you know, we have to figure that out. Like, who is the guy? Is it going to be Anthony Edwards? Like, is he going to be the face of American basketball? Is it going to be Cooper Flag? Is it, who is the next guy going to be? And. And this year at the All-Star game, Adam Silver is doing the like trying to channel the four nations, you know. Right. But the Americans got two teams. Like if it was just like eight Americans against eight international players, we'd get smoked.

Smoked. Smoked. And so there's more American All-Stars, which is why there are two teams. But like the top would get absolutely run off the court. So the personality thing is definitely part of it. Also, it's just we need better American basketball players. Yeah. And I, and I, listen, I think the league's never been more skilled.

I mean, Charles Oakley couldn't play today. It's, that is a statement of fact. Like, the league has never been more skilled. I think it's the only league where, like, baseball is going to expand, it looks like. Yeah. You know, I'm like, eh. I don't know if I, I don't know. Like, I get it for money, but, like, I don't know.

know that there's definitively enough talent to feel... We already had two AAA teams last year, the A's and the White Sox. Right, right. Like, the NBA, there's enough talent. Like, there is flatly enough basketball players that... No question. We see it all the time. Like, a team's like, oh, man, we had four guys get hurt.

And then someone you've never heard of come in and drops 50, and you're like, what? Like, there is absolutely enough talent in the NBA to grow the sport a couple more markets, if and when they want to. Today's show brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. I just spent the weekend down in Hollywood, Florida, at an amazing facility. The holidays are here, and the sports schedule is packed, tighter than Santa's gift bag. Week 15, football, bowl games, NBA, college hoops, hockey, the whole sports sleigh is loaded. And on Hard Rock Bet, there's always something to unwrap and bet on. New customers can sign up, bet five bucks in any game.

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We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

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Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. So I've always been a fan of Notre Dame. I appreciate their academic, rigorous standards. I've put many, I always had kind of a rule. You know, if I were going to put on a college kid, where he went to school mattered. Like Notre Dame kids could come on and lecture you about physiology, right? So I always like Duke basketball dudes or Notre Dame football dudes. You're like, we're safe because I generally don't put 24-year-olds on the air because they get, you know, intimidated and they, you know, it's a big platform.

Notre Dame was always like the exception. You can put a Notre Dame guy on. I, you know, it's brilliant people sometimes lack self-awareness. Maybe they've been complimented. Maybe things have come easy. I was shocked by the lack of self-awareness. from an independent school saying, you know, we're just not getting the support of 21-year ACC member Miami, who, by the way, beat us. And I watched Pete Mavakwa, who by all accounts

has been a very good AD. And I was shocked. They were tone deaf to the fact that they lost head to head and that guys, the last time Notre Dame won a Natty, they were 25 independents. even BYU said, we're going to join a conference. I'll always root for Marcus Freeman. I think he's such a good guy. He's kind of the face to me of the coach as a college football. Like if it was Nick Saban for 10 years, I think Marcus Freeman's one of the faces. What did you make of their reaction from we're not going to the bowl to this is outrageous to we're being picked on as a semi-member of a conference?

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts. First of all, I, too, like, you grew up in Chicago, there's no college sport of note, you know? And so my dad and I used to like, he was just like, let's go to big games. Like, we just like going to sporting events together. So we would go to one Notre Dame game a year. My dad, just Catholic kid, poor, south side of Milwaukee, Midwest, his whole life. He just like, he really respected the brand. And so he showed me Rudy at a young age.

We'd go to games every year. Notre Dame's a, it's an impressive. place. It's also a little smug. Like, like, it just, it just is. Like, yeah, they're like, you know who roots for our team? Jesus. Like, like, like, seriously, like, touchdown Jesus overlooks the stadium and then you walk around that campus and it's not the only, like, religious figure statue that they have that's like doing, they're like, and that one looks like he's doing a first down signal, doesn't it? And it's like, they, they just kind of carry themselves. And by the way, that's not totally like, oh, it's the Ohio State University. Like, like, my,

I guess my point is tone deafness in college sports is not, that's just the latest example. Like, there are, there's, there, there's, there's so much money and so much arrogance and so much smugness. and Notre Dame is at the top of the list and has been, but like if I would have told you five years ago, Colin in the future, there's going to be a university that gets left out of a hypothetical playoff. And instead of going to a bowl game, they are going to cry about it and take their ball and go home.

You'd be like Notre Dame. You know, like it's just kind of. And by the way, like they like it. Like Duke basketball, they kind of like, it's part of their DNA to be like a little smug and like, we're a little better than you. And so I wasn't surprised.

Like you, I was turned off by it. And this is one I also know that you will disagree with me on. I will add it to the list of things where I just, everyone says this is awesome for college football, the playoff, because we get more games. And it gets decided on the field. And I know the ratings are huge. And I know this makes me argue against more football.

So I know that this is, I'm upstream without a paddle here. But like Indiana beat Ohio State in football. The ultimate basketball school beats the ultimate football school for the Big Ten championship to become the number one team in the country. And I watch your show every day as I get ready to do my show. And that made herd line news. And you spent a lot of time talking about how too long. loss, ninth ranked Notre Dame, did they get snubbed for two loss, 10th ranked Miami, who Miami beat? Now, to your credit, you argued, no, they're being ridiculous. But like,

have we lost the plot a little bit that we are focusing on the ninth and 10th ranked team instead of the teams at the top? To me, like, it is just what is awesome about college football. And there's many things. But I loved, I loved that the regular season in college football mattered even more than the regular season in the NFL. Every game mattered. And last year, Ohio State, Michigan, in my world, should have been an elimination game for Ohio State. Because if Michigan can beat Ohio State and Ohio State can fall to eight and be the eight seed and then make it to the tournament and win it, okay, congrats for your national championship. But then I personally care a little less about Ohio State Michigan.

I know that's at sacrilege to say, and I know that'll never be the case for Ohio State fans, and I know it'll never be the case for Michigan fans. But like, if that's not an elimination game in that spot, it objectively means less to the casual person. And so it's like, I just, I felt like, Indiana got lost in the shuffle, and I felt like people were debating things that a two-loss team didn't get a chance to be the 10 seed in the playoff. I'm not there yet in my college football brain to care about that. And now for our next segment, whiskey business. Yes, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Colin Coward podcast. So from Little League all the way to the English Premier League. The regular season is simply a preamble until the championship.

Yeah. What you're arguing is, I want this one sport to really have a great regular season, but the rest of it's sort of nonsense. It'll be nonsense. The bowl games, we'll just end it with these arbitrary weird bowl games that nobody goes to. And my take is, in sports, we all know, and it doesn't necessarily take too much away from the regular season, that we sort of know. there's those great NBA regular season games on Saturday night at Celtics Lakers, LeBron and Jason Tatum, and I love those games.

But in every sport, including Little League, eighth grade girls volleyball, there's a regular season, and then you decide in the playoffs, and all the time in the regular season, the underdog beats a big person, and the underdog, that's their moment in the sun. My problem with bowl college football was always, we cared too much about the regular season and then punted on these weird, unattended bowl games. So it was like finally, Fox and the SPN said, it's an $8 billion industry with a lot. It's a movie with a horrible ending.

We just want to make the ending better to the movie. Yeah, and again, that is a, that is what happened. And I get that it was going to happen. Do you think they're going to go to 16? Are they going to go to 32? I don't think they'll go to 32. I'm very comfortable with 12. I wouldn't put Tulane in. I don't buy into James Madison. I think that's just nonsense. I just think it makes everybody feel good. It's a neat story. It's not the truth. But fine. I'm not going to lose any sleep. In March Madness, it works because there's 68 teams. And it's basketball. You can play a game on a Thursday and then a game on a Saturday. Right. Right. I think it's faster. I would have rather seen Vanderbilt in Texas. But,

I'm good. I'm fine with it. I think people look at the Boise State teams, like Chris Peterson, where they had 11 NFL people and they go, well, they beat Oklahoma. It's like, okay, that was that team could have beaten anybody. It was Chris Peterson and Boise State was an NFL factory. Yeah. So I, I, listen, college football is a little inartistic. It's very turbulent. It's weird. But it's always felt like boxing where it's, it's, I always say it's the Wild Wild Wild West, like the territorial. governors you had in the Wild Wild West. Those are the commissioners now. Everybody, every territory for itself. And it's like, no, we need like a Dana White. Like we need a Roger Goodell. So I am willing to be less engaged, although I'm not, but I'm willing to care a little less about Auburn, Alabama, if I get a great ending to the movie. And I think that that's totally reasonable. But like, to your point, like James Madison, Oregon is,

they're, you know, they're three touchdown plus underdogs in that game. And it's a playoff game. Like that kind of feels like a bowl game that I didn't care about once upon a time. And the bull game, I mean, my wife went to Clemson. She's like, oh, they're playing at Yankee Stadium. They're playing in the Pennstripe Bowl. You got to get us tickets to that. It's like, okay.

Like, you know, so, so we're going to go see Clemson Penn State at Yankee Stadium. And it'll probably be sold out with all those. fans there. So like, I agree with you. the bowl games didn't matter. I definitely agree that at the end, this, it feels more like a true process to crown a champion. It's undeniable that it's good TV and good

business and it works. I just, I, the other thing that doesn't sit great with me, and I've heard you address this and like Notre Dame's not going to play USC. Oklahoma's like Oklahoma can't play Oklahoma State anymore.

There's just, the conferences are so big and there's not divisions anymore. So even if you're in a conference, you don't get to play everybody in your conference to tell me truly who was the best. Like it's just because we have to get into this conference to have a better shot at a playoff, to get a better shot at a bid, to get a bigger. It's just, college football is messy and regional and rivalry and irrational. Like, I want Oklahoma to play Oklahoma State. I want Kansas to play Missouri. I want like, I want that stuff to matter for that sport. And I'll get there, but I don't, I don't love that this stuff has led to that stuff ending. Yeah. And it's, it's been very quick and generally when things, very quick.

Yeah, it's like, it's like I, it's not perfectly analogous, but it's like AI or the pandemic. The world changed overnight. Job displacement. Wear a mask. College football in a year went from paying a players the death penalty to celebrating it and marketing it and bidding. wars over a junior in high school. Right. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? And USC has to play Rutgers in volleyball. USC plays Rutgers, but not Notre Dame.

I'm like, are you sure? Like, are we positive? That's what we want. Like, it just, and you're, and you're right. Like, it all changed real fast. And it's real fast. I still, you've got me, right? Like, I'm not your issue.

Like, I'm going to watch big games. I'm going to gamble on it. I understand the business side of it, and I am entertained still, obviously, by any football game that you put on television with a point spread. But it's just, I don't know. It's a lot fast,

and I'm very interested where the dust settles in a decade and how this is all going to settle into it. When you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey, whether it's rye whiskey or single barrel bourbon. You're getting over a century of craft Pacted into every bottle, hop on over to greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. So, you know, I was looking over the topics they gave us today.

Here's one that's really interesting to me. So certainly I understood the Tim Tebow fascination because he was winning all the time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah. The Shadur thing is weird because he came from a small program, didn't win a ton in college. There was no religious connection. And I said he reminds me of Lamello Ball. He's the first quarterback influencer where he's really popular in places I don't go. I go to TV.

He's popular on IG or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff. And I think the Dylan Gabriel early success is. very explainable. Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. He was more ready than Shadur. He also played in more of a pro-system at Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado. So Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. When he walked into that camp for the Brown, Stefanski's like, oh, this kid's unbelievable on the whiteboard. He's unbelievable. But over the course of time, Shadur's talents grader, which I've always argued. And over the course of time, Shadur ramped up, got a lot of practices, and everybody went, that's the better guy.

So I don't think there was anything other than more experienced college guy from a greater NFL ready program had a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But through it all, what we aren't talking about is Soudure does appear to be better than everybody in the NFL thought because he was a fifth round quarterback. And Greg Kossel came on my show this week and went, yeah, the film said he was excellent. And lost in all of this is the most important position in the sport. And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise quarterback in Cleveland. And he'll be free for the next four years.

To me, that's unbelievable. I have all of the respect in the world for Greg Kosell. I watched every throw that he had against Tennessee. And he was great. I thought that he made some really impressive throws. I thought the throw to Injoku for the touchdown. I thought the throw to Fanon for the two-point conversion. I thought he dumped it off some where it felt like he felt pressure

and had pretty good just like awareness around him. I thought there was a lot of impressive things in that game against Tennessee. I still think it's a little soon to say that he is a franchise quarterback for not beating the Titans. Like, it's just like he, he didn't be. I'm getting a little excited. He didn't be the worst team in the league. And now you've got him as Cleveland starter for the next four years. I think that's a little premature because the game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore,

he looked not like an NFL player. The game against his only road game this year is against the Raiders, maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other than Tennessee. And he was 11 for 20. for 200 yards, and he had a 66-yard touchdown, but 65 of that was yak. It was a dump-off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle. And the Niners game, he was not good. And so, like, let's see, because the Bears defense is not very good, but they lead the league

and takeaways. And also the Bears have a stacked roster like Denver does. Shadour has a bad roster, and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving core. like really bad receiving core. Yes, and a coach who seemingly doesn't like him. So like, yeah, I, I, should doer has been better than I thought he was going to be. But like, can we see how he plays when it's going to be five degrees below zero on the windchill against the number one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like, I just, it's a little early for me to say that if Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not taking a quarterback.

And if they- I would take Mendoza. over him. And I would take Dante Moore. But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback for the next four years. Like if they take Mendoza, he doesn't play another game for Cleveland. Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're going to get to Mendoza.

I think Cleveland's two talent. They're going to win another game. I would take Mendoza over it. That's not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think, is a pro bowler very quickly. Yeah. And listen, Shadour, I cannot imagine. Because think about what NFL teams have overlooked.

Like, how? Because 32 teams passed on him at least four times, and some teams like five or six times. And he was the most accurate college quarterback ever. And his father is one of the greatest athletes this country has ever produced. Top five. So, right. So, like, I don't believe it was a conspiracy. I think there was real red flags there.

And I just, I want to, I need to, like, actions, right? The NFL's actions said Shedorf Sanders is not an NFL quarterback. His actions against Tennessee are saying, no, no, no, no, I absolutely am. So now I think it's actually interesting. I think that prior to this, a lot of people were acting completely foolish. And it was like, they weren't wanting to, like, confirm their, it was confirmation bias of how they felt about him going into the draft. and like, you know, Mel Kiper on draft night, I think, shifted, like shaped a lot of narratives and fame and people are tight with Dion.

And I think there's a lot of factors at play here. But I will admit, like, now it's interesting. Like, now it, to me, now it is, all right, show what you can do. And I can't wait for to explain it. But like, next year, Deshaun Watson's on that roster. No, gross. I agree with you. But the owner of the Browns was at Deshawn Watson's wedding this offseason.

I know. And executed the worst trade in NFL history and gave him a contract that apparently made him a pariah among all of his billionaire friends because they were all pissed that he gave him a fully guaranteed deal. I'm thinking he might be a little invested in that working out too. So there's going to be, Shadur will have to be great the rest of this year for him to enter next. year, not in a quarterback competition with a $230 million guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick. Maybe not a first round pick, maybe not a top five pick. But I think he's going to have to be great to not be in a serious quarterback competition next year. This product contains nicotine.

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Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, Nick? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say,

Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some essence.

The SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. So if you look at year two, Josh Allen and Caleb Williams, the members are literally the same. Oh, I've looked. It might be my screensaver. So Josh Allen did get better, and I think Caleb will. Overlooked in all of this is Buffalo has the worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh is throwing to tight ends, much easier throw. So his completion percentage now is like, whoa, look at Drew Breeze.

Look at 6'6 Drew Breeze. No, Josh is still a playmaker. He's probably closer to a 65, 66% if he was throwing the ball down the field, which, by the way, Mahomes is to a Rice or Xavier worthy, he's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid, Haas. Yeah, Knox, yeah. Knox. I mean, last week, Gabe Davis, who they brought back, had two catches.

That was their go-to. Yeah. So I think lost in Caleb Williams, or under-discussed, not lost, is the fact that he may have made two of the best throws of the season last week. Yeah, the one to Zakias and that. the one to commit. Yeah. I mean, the one in the end zone is you, it's almost an optical illusion when you watch it

in real time. If you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't make sense how he got there. I was watching it. I was watching it with Nick and I was like, tell me if I'm being a prisoner of the moment, but like he has the best arm in the NFL. I think he does. Right. Like it's, it doesn't, obviously that doesn't mean you're the best. Throwing it hard is not a bit like, like to throw with velocity and accuracy on the move like that is just it's preposterous it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's the it's him josh allen it's it's a short list of guys so i guess this is my point i think he's a shorter

josh allen i think that's his comp i think he's a six one josh allen everybody's like well what is this everybody has a comp and i'm like i said it today in the herd i'm like yes comp is josh allen like there is no ceiling for him if i told you best arm never gets hurt, those very few interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner right now in the league at quarterback now that Lamar has scaled back. It's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And you think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a shorter Josh Allen. I really do. So I still think, I still think it's Aaron Rogers. I just, the, the shorter Josh Allen is just going to be tough for me because so much of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear.

Like you know what I mean? He people bounce off him like Ben Rafflesberger. He will truck people. Not that Caleb's not willing to truck people he has. Because he's Caleb's 6-1, but he's strong. Like he's like 6-1-235. Like he's pretty, he's pretty beefy. 2-30, whatever it is.

But like Rogers was 6-2 and Caleb, maybe this, is also just following everything the guy's said since he's been a pro. Like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers is his favorite player ever. And what to me, one of the greatest quarterback seasons, like on like the short list in NFL history is Rogers's 2011 season when he had 45 touchdowns and six picks. Because if you look at that season, it was like, it wasn't a Brady surgical. I'm just never throwing a risky play and we're going to have 10, 12, 14 play drives.

It was like he's top three in yards per attempt. Like he was chucking the ball down the field and making big throws, but also not turning it over. Like they were like deep ball throws that weren't risky. It was it's crazy stuff. And I think that's what Caleb can be. Like when he really dials it in, he wants to use that arm and throw it. it all over the place, but he doesn't throw picks. And so that is, I still think the absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive assassin

who doesn't turn the ball over. And his mobility and escapability is crazy because like Josh Allen can run, but he's not like pure wedding out of, you know, like Caleb Williams looks like, I, I want to want Chicago to nickname him the one. He looks like Neo and the Matrix. He's like dodging bullets. He was sacked 68 times last year. And people said I was a homer for this opinion, but I stand by it.

I actually thought he had pretty good pocket presence last year. Like, it's an insane thing to say for a guy who took up, had a top five sacked season in NFL history. Well, Ben Johnson, first thing he did, Jonah Jackson, Drew Dalman, Joe Tooney. It wasn't Caleb, it was the line. Yeah, and like it was, and he was, he was trying to make plays. Like, it wasn't like he was dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he didn't see it coming. It was like, the team sucks.

It's a 10-game losing streak. I have three play callers, my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around me, and I'm trying to make plays. And he would get, he would get, he would get that. Now, some of it was on him. he held the ball too long. I think the number that, I think it was on a Monday night football broadcast,

and it blew my mind. He took like 28 sacks last year, where he held the ball for five or more seconds. That should be impossible. I don't think Peyton Manning did it in his career. And so, like, he's definitely learned, and Ben Johnson has helped him, but he is an escape artist back there.

And sometimes it'll lead to a sack that was 17 yards instead of eight yards. sometimes, but he's really cut down on that this year. The completion percentage is way too low. He doesn't seem to see it quite quick enough. That's right. The throw he missed to commit was open. He saw it late and underthrew it. Terrible combination, and it was a game-ending interception.

But, like, I am convinced that there is a superstar there and that there is an MVP there. And I think Ben Johnson's going to get there. I think we've seen it before. Like the, Mahomes, it was his first year starting, which made it so special, but it was his second year in Andy Reed system. Like, we've seen the,

even if it's third year in the league, but it's the second year in the system. Like second year in the system is when you can have the mastery of it. Like, I think Caleb's going to be a very trendy MVP pick next year. Like, I think he's going to have a monster season next year with Ben Johnson. and then we'll see what that means for the rest of this year. Danny Parkins, first things first. The volume.

Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starting. For Bander. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know.

is somebody coming after me. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode,

we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches the toughest players and the moments that define Roland Garris. Genschen win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubb's tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. This is an IHart podcast.

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