The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - 2022 Preseason Special with Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell ,Mary Kay Cabot, Mike Silver and Dave Wannstedt

Episode Date: August 27, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast 2022 Preseason Special.  We’re getting you ready for Week 1 with (3:00) rookie Vikings head coach Kevin O’Connell discussing how he was introduced to Sean McVay, McVay’s offensive influence, and why it’s important for him to connect with Kirk Cousins. Then, longtime Browns beat writer Mary Kay Cabot on why Kevin Stefanski is uniquely qualified to weather the nuclear Watson drama, what it’s like to cover the Watson beat as a woman, and if Baker Mayfield could have been the Browns starter under different circumstances. Next, longtime NFL writer - and host of the Open Mike podcast - Mike Silver joins Colin to discuss his article reporting Jimmy Garoppolo’s penchant for repeatedly “ghosting” the Niners in the offseason, if the Bucs could make a move for Jimmy G, why Tom Brady didn’t end up playing for Jon Gruden’s Raiders in 2020. Finally , former Bears & Dolphins HC and Cowboys DC Dave Wannstedt on if Kenny Pickett should be the Steelers Week 1 starter, if Tom Brady’s extended training camp leave could result in a slow start for the Bucs, if the Bears should pay Roquan Smith or trade him for assets, if Justin Fields will make it to a third year in Chicago. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Colin Coward Podcasts presented by Fandual Sportsbook. No better place to bet the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. There's a lot of reasons. It's America's number one sports book, incredibly easy to use, super safe, totally secure, super fast payouts in as quick as two hours.

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Please use the promo code Colin, C-O-L-N. Fandul Sportsbook app, sign up. It's Prime Cuts, baby. Best of the Colin Coward podcast. This week, our 2022 NFL pre-season. and special. We're getting you ready for week one with the Vikings rookie head coach, Kevin O'Connell. You know, he comes from the Sean McVeigh-Ram staff, former NFL player.

Meanwhile, nobody knows the Browns like Mary Kay Cabot. Messy transition. Baker to Deshawn Watson. She's got the inside. Plus, the volume's Mike Silver, broke a story on Jimmy G. Is there a dark horse looking that makes sense in Jimmy G's future? And how close was Brady? from becoming a raider.

Also, Dave Wonstat, Pittsburgh guy, no Chicago, too. What do the Bears do with unhappy linebacker, Roquan Smith? And Steelers, can he pick it week one? Should they start him? God, I love football. You know, Kevin, one of the reasons I've picked the Vikings is the most improved team in the league. And I said, listen, this is nothing against Mike Tomlin, Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, Mike Zimmer.

These are really good coaches. But there is something about offensive people. coaches and the sensibility and the fragility of quarterbacks. They make a lot of money and they get a lot of criticism. And I said, I don't know if Kirk ever had a guy that he could kind of feel like he could complain and it's okay to complain. You've quarterbacked. You know this.

Kind of the ups and downs of it. I mean, you have a bad Sunday. It lives with you. It is hard to get that out of your like system. And I've said, I think he needed an offensive coach. It's no criticism to anybody in this league. Russell Wilson and Pete struggled at the end. Belichick and Brady struggle.

There is something. So when you have your relationship with Kirk, when you sat down the first time, what did you guys address? How did you connect with him? Well, that's the word you just said at the very end. It's about connecting. I think this, I think offensive football in our league, I think it always has, but maybe more so than ever, runs through the quarterback position

and runs through the comfort of the quarterback position, not the play caller. You can have a bunch of stuff drawn up on the board that looks really great and try to put it in a game plan. But I think the quarterback ownership of not only the weekend and week out plan, but the comfort of being able to be themselves, you know, how they lead. Because I do think it's not a prerequisite to being. successful at this position in this league. But I think just like as a head coach,

just like what I try to do every single day, I think if your quarterback is authentically being himself and he's as talented as Kirk is and gains the respect of his teammates because they see how he works, they see how he prepares, they see all he wants to do deep down inside is when football games. I think my role as a coach and really is the offensive play caller

and coaches just really try to connect with him so much. that he's an extension of me and I can be an extension of him and I can learn kind of what makes him tick. And then ultimately what we do on Sundays is going to be about what he's comfortable with. I think those meetings, Colin, those one-offs, those Friday afternoons, those Saturday mornings, game plan set. I may have my likes. I may have my favorites of the week. But you know what, Colin, if they don't show up on his list and when we talk things out,

guess what plays aren't going to get called? They're going to be win and doubt. And by no means do we ask him to call the game or try to, you know, put everything together for us. But we lay out the plan. We give him repetition. We give him the intent. And then it's about, you know, finding that balance between what we think is the best way to attack an opponent, but also what we think is the best way to get him in a rhythm, keep him from getting hit,

and then ultimately allow himself to feel great throughout that game, the ebbs and flows. Because what you said is right, it's the hardest position in sports, both during a game after. a game, highs and lows of a season. We're just trying to create an environment for Kirk where he can be himself on a daily basis. He can lead our group and then ultimately preparing a way that when his best is required on Sundays, he'll be there for us time and time again. And you know what?

I know how hard it is if he's not or he hits that adversity that every NFL quarterback, no matter who you are, you hit throughout a season. I'm going to be the first guy standing there to let him know, hey, we're going to figure this out together. We're going to work through it. I'm going to be right there with you every step of the way. And I do think that offensive, defensive coaching, I just think that's my philosophy for our whole team. But I think it magnifies itself for our quarterback.

You know, it's so you have an offensive philosophy. And then, I mean, the Rams didn't have a coordinator for a couple of years before you got there. So they, they had to have really liked you. Right? So because I looked back here and they went, did they go 2019? Because you worked there, 20, 20, 20, 20. 20 to 2021, you were the offensive coordinator. So I'm not sure who was the OC before you.

I know different guys like Jedfish were working on the staff. But so McVeigh obviously had great trust in you. So you have this offensive philosophy. And then you work with McVe, this powerful sort of mind. So like how do you mesh like what you would do and then you move some Sean stuff in? I mean, is there anything you've had and you've said, shit, I'm bailing on that. I'm just taking Johns. I like that.

Oh, I mean, absolutely. I think that my offensive philosophy, it was one of those things, where I thought a lot of things, but then I got to experience kind of walking into a great offensive staff with some really good players in L.A., but a scheme that had been, you know, they've been running that scheme for three years by the time I got there with a lot of success early on. Then it was kind of like the league, you know, tried to do some things, different front mechanics, different personnel groups to try to talk, Sean, out of some of the things that they were doing

early on, mainly at the line of scrimmage, when they would go fast. And then really, I come in during the, you know, not, you know, break it all down to build it back up again, but just really through a process of which assessing how we can kind of, you know, kind of negate some of these advantages that people are trying to get by the tactics they're using to slow what we did down. and then just kind of, you know, the past game philosophy at its core, you know, concepts, how you read things, how you tie quarterback's feet and eyes together. I really felt like I was able to, you know, have an impact, have a role with that evolution that took place in 2020.

But then also, you know, be able to just learn and kind of intake everything that kind of had transpired for three years. And then just being around Sean as a play caller, how things get packaged together, how you make sure you've got answers for some things that can be catastrophic if you don't. Just how you put the quarterback at ease with providing a plan with those types of answers. I learned a lot. I took a lot from it. I learned a lot from being around a guy like Matthew Stafford last year,

seeing a veteran quarterback played 12 years and a lot of different offenses. Then he comes in, and in one year, you know, that evolution continued to go forward. and we figured out ways to push the ball down the field, new ways of running tempo and attacking, you know, keeping our attacking mindset, but maybe understanding we had a guy that, you know, we didn't want to put a governor on at the quarterback position because we knew we had Cooper and Robert and Higbee. We signed, you know, we've got Van Jefferson and Tyler, or, and, you know, obviously you signed to Sean Jackson. And then it's O'Dell Beckham. And it's, hey, this quarterback can make it all go. But we also still want to maintain our identity. and that was the really cool part is from day one watching that between Sean, myself, and Matthew.

You know, there was a lot of meetings that took place over the course of, you know, really a year there where, you know, my football philosophy changed, morphed, adapted, based upon a really high-level ball between Sean, myself and Matthew, and Matthew being at the driver's seat of all that was a really special year. It culminated with us winning a Super Bowl, but I think back calling on all those times, talking about plays and progressions and hey maybe i love something and the two of them were like no i don't think that's great this week or vice versa or maybe it was matthew and myself banging on the table for a play and sean saying easy now like this is why it's a no for me this week or this

is why i love it this week but ultimately nobody ever got hurt feelings everybody just continue to say you know what we trust one another and when that when it came time to kick off on sundays we had great plans and and like i circled back to on kirk uh you know player ownership and Matthew owning that thing from start to finish is what helped us not only have success, but overcome the adversity like I talked about that's going to come. We didn't win a game in November. We turned it over probably too much, put the defenses in tough spots. Then we had to circle back and kind of really figured out what we wanted to be late in the year

and go win nine out of our last 10 and hoist to Lombardi. So I learned so much through that experience, both the positives, but then also that adversity that really defined what I think that team was and really taught me a lot about the chair that I'm in now and how I can lead a football team moving forward. So I saw McVeigh dog cuss golf a few times. And I, listen, Stafford, there are a couple times I've seen him, if not confront, you know, go up to Matt and say,

who has the emotional discipline to handle anything Sean says? But what about those days when you have to be Kirk? Here's one of my knocks on Kirk. Let it rip. And yourceptions are okay. Like, let her rip. I do think, is it a fair criticism to say at some, sometimes Kirk can be a tad cautious. Is that fair?

I think it's all through the lens of, you know, getting all the information for whatever those decisions may be. I think Kurt's got a really good sense of situational football. He's constantly pushing us around here to have practice periods every single day where there's a situation involved. You know, what is it? It's two minute. It's third down. It's low red zone. Hey, we're in a no sack mentality right here. hey, I can be a little bit more aggressive. It is a two minute to go try to win a game. We're down.

We need a touchdown. What I've really challenged him with since I got here was to be the same guy, be the good decision maker. I would never, ever call a talented guy like Kirk, a game manager. But I think every great quarterback manages the game, if that makes sense. And a lot of that is managing risk or reward of the situation. What's the play call? What's the intent?

What's the look? you know, do we have that premier look to take a shot? And you know what? I'm okay with the result, to your point. I'm okay with the outcome, the result. If we, you know, we wait two quarters to take a shot to Justin Jefferson one-on-one in a certain coverage situation. And if that doesn't work out our way, the ball maybe bounces funny, I'm okay with that. What ultimately we're hoping for, and I think Kirk completely understands that is it's those situations where, hey, we don't pull the trigger, but why? Let's talk about it. Well, we've grown already immensely together just by having those one-on-one meetings. We meet a lot, just him and I, and we watch practice, and we watch games, and we watch old footage from him or the Rams or any other team, and we just absorb the situation. And there's a lot of what would you call here? There's a lot of, well, if I call this, would you be thinking about it like that? Right.

And don't forget about this column, the beauty of the coach, the quarterback system in our league is I can talk to him. when he's out there between the lines. And I could say a play call, you know, hey, we're running this, this, and this. Here's what I'm thinking here. And that can take a lot of that pressure off his plate because it's the head coach saying. And it's the head coach calling the play. And ultimately, we can live that situation. And more importantly, the result together.

And I think it's really important. Once you have the process of getting to that result is right, you can't really deal with the results negatively. at that point. You just got to deal with them together and say, you know what, that's exactly what we wanted. This is the shot to take. It didn't work out in our favor this time, but you know what, Colin, next time it's going to, if we just maintain what him and I continue to build together and forget the fact that we can rely on a lot of really talented players around him as well. And then knowing we've got a defense on the other side, we're going to ask them to pick us up from time to time. And that's how you play complimentary football, you know, which I learned from

one of the best coaches and maybe the best coach in the history of our game and coach Belichick. I mean, that complimentary nature to your team, just because you're an offensive head coach, I better be for sure invested in our defense, special teams, and really what makes it all go for our 53 guys out there. NFL kickoff is still a couple of weeks away, but you can get in on the action now on the Fandall's sports book with their NFL Super Win bonus. Right now, anybody who places at least a $50 Super Bowl winning bet gets $5 back for each. each win your team has during the regular season. Pretty cool. So what NFL Super Bowl bet would you make? Can the Rams repeat at plus 1100? Maybe you think it's Josh Allen and the bills

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LinkedIn jobs helps you find the candidates you want to talk to faster. Did you know every week nearly 40 million jobs seekers visit LinkedIn? 40 million. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash Colin. LinkedIn.com slash Colin. Post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack,

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fantine, Ryan Clark, Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free IHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. We should probably consider bringing Mary Kay Cabot full time to the volume, but she's already so employed by the plaindealer in Cleveland.com. She doesn't have room for us. She's also recently a finalist for the Bill Nunn Jr. Award, which goes to a

reporter who has a long and distinguished contribution to pro football. You know, Mary Kay, as I look at the schedule, the Browns do get, they get a hell of a scheduling break. So in the first several weeks, Carolina, okay, battle line could really struggle against the Brown's defensive front. Then it's the Jets. We don't even know if Zach Wilson plays or flacco. Then it's the Steelers.

We may have rookie Kenny Pickett on the field. Then it's the foul. Arkansas Marriota. Okay. Then you look two weeks later, it's New England, where Matt Patricia's calling offensive plays. It heats up in late October, early November. They get Miami at home.

Miami's got some push, but again, that's at home, warm weather Miami, cold weather, Cleveland. But to your point, it's about week 10, then you start facing the Josh Allen's and the Lamars and the Brady's. is I wonder if optimistically, like when you cover these guys, I could see Stefansky saying, God, if we could just get a 10 game suspension, if we could get to 12 and we could be near 500, because Cleveland faces a lot of young quarterbacks and dysfunctional offenses and rebuilding offensive lines. If, you know, you have to navigate when Baker was there, you were very early on this,

where Stafansky was, Baker was wearing him out. And you were pretty early on this. Like they were over him last year about week six, week seven. They have to be very supportive of Deshaun Watson. As you navigate this story, do you sense stress with Stefanski? Do you sense any of that in the building management executive Stefanski? I don't. And it's so hard to believe that, I know.

But he is built for this kind of thing. And I think that was one of the reasons why they hired him. I mean, he, you know, he grew up around sports. In fact, I mean, Ed Stefansky, who is, you know, was an NBA executive, his entire career. There's just something about Kevin Stefansky, even just for his age. I mean, he really is unflappable, and he's just a flatliner. And I do think that I think he's handling it all very well. Usually I can see those signs of distress on someone's face.

You know, you can, he does have a little bit more, you know, salt and pepper in the beard now, but, but for the most part, you know, he seems, he seems okay to me. I mean, he just, you know, controls what he can. And I think it sets the right tone for the football team because most of the players are, you know, buying into that party line that, you know, we're going to go out there and we're going to win games. And, you know, a lot of coaches would not have been able to handle this the way that he has so far. You're a woman. You know the story on Deshaun Watson. It's predatory. It's, as Roger Goodell said, it's creepy. There's a preponderance of evidence. Let me just ask straight out. Covering him for you. What is it like? Well, there are a lot of challenges in covering this story. There are so many challenges because there are a lot of layers to it. You know, you really have to, you know, it's a minefield to walk through. It really is. And so I think, you know, anybody, covering it right now. I mean, it's basically almost a no-win situation, no matter what you try to say or do. And, you know, how we talk about players having to block out the noise. But you know, I've had to do that for a long time because of, you know, just Twitter and, you know, some baker stuff and all that kind of stuff. So I'm used to that.

But I'm really having to do it now, just like a lot of other people are too, because no matter what you tweet, no matter what you write, you're going to have a segment of the population that is going to come down really, really hard on you. It's difficult in many ways, just because, you know, just from a standpoint of, you know, you don't want to not give all due respect to the accusers. I mean, you really have to do that by the same token. You have to try to maintain some type of ability to cover the quarterback that is involved in this situation. And so it's just, it's, it's hard all the way around. And, and also, you know, a lot of

information is, it's hard to come by. I mean, we're kind of new to this story. There have been people that have covering this, have been covering this story out of Houston for a long, long time. And then, you know, he, he shows up on, on the Brown's doorstep in March. And, you know, you have to try to quickly develop relationships and sources and, and do the best you can with it. So it's been challenging from that standpoint. But more so than anything, it's been very difficult to just to walk that fine line down the middle of, you know, who's going to be, you know, hurt or upset by all of this. Does Baker Mayfield still have allies in the city? Yes, I would say so. Yeah, he does. I mean, a lot of people have jumped off the bandwagon, but I will tell you, we have been covering his practices

pretty much on a daily basis in Carolina for Cleveland.com. I mean, not in person or anything, but we kind of write about them each day. And there's some of the most well-read stories on the site every single day. So people still have an appetite for Baker Mayfield. Part of that might be because the Browns are playing him in the opener. Like, how can you have a better storyline than that from the Baker-Mayfield saga? It's really kind of uncanny. But, yes, so that's part of it.

But, yes, there are people here that really still feel for Baker-Macon. Well, I mean, listen, two-time walk-on, underdog quality. Cleveland's felt beat up, I think, for decades in sports by the national media, the reputation. There's a certain symmetry, I thought, with Baker and Cleveland. I just thought, I said this early. He was just too snarky. I always feel like you can't win the press conference as a quarterback. You just have to sometimes fall in the sword.

Baker always felt like he had to win the press conference. And some of that's just he's a young 25-year-old guy. He's a kid. And so part of me, I do think he'll win that job in Carolina. And I think it's a bad old line. So you know what I feel bad about Baker, Mary Kay, is a lot of times in life you get a great opportunity and you're not ready for it. And you never get a second great one. Lane Kiffin.

He just wasn't ready for the Raiders. in USC, but he's a really smart coach. He got a second opportunity in the SEC, and he's crushing. He's a great coach. Steve Sarkesian wasn't ready for the USC job, personal issues. He got a second opportunity. Where I feel bad for Baker is, I'm not sure he's ever going to get that offensive line or he's ever going to get Nick Chubb.

I mean, it was really, Mary Kaye. It was really built for a quarterback. It was almost the Niners offense. It was quarterback friendly, not quarterback. centric. And part of me thinks, oh, Baker, you had it. Those kind of offensive lines, because he didn't make any money, they don't exist. You can't go buy a right tackle, right? Right. And the ironic part about this whole thing, and I think about this sometimes, what would have happened if Baker Mayfield had not asked to be traded the day after, or the day

the Cleveland Browns went down to try to court Deshaun Watson? What if he would not have asked to be traded. Would he be still the starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns right now? You know, I mean, there's a world in which that's possible. And, you know, so I don't know, it's just weird the way that the whole thing worked out because at that point, you know, negotiations opened back up and they opened up those purse strings and they threw $230 million guaranteed at Deshaun Watson. And all of a sudden, the team that he had supposedly ruled out was his first choice and here he was. So I just have to wonder what would have happened. Mike Silver, now a member of the volume, host of Open Mike podcast. And I want to start

with a story that you wrote San Francisco Chronicle, Breaking News Story, that I didn't know. So when the Niners signed Jimmy Garoppolo to a contract, he disappeared for several weeks, if not several months. This was news to me. Did the Niners, because I always thought Jimmy was kind of a team guy, but did they have buyer's remorse after they couldn't get a hold of them for six weeks? Well, you know, you and I both have kids who are, you know, running with the cool crowd. So I think the term is ghosted.

He ghosted them. If I'm going to have to check with my kids to make sure I'm saying that right. But yeah, Colin, so let's go back to 20. 2017, they make the trade for Jimmy at the deadline, which surprised a lot of people. And they hadn't done a lot of thought beforehand. And, you know, Belichick called Kyle. They did the deal for a two. And then he came in and won those last five games after they were already eliminated. And they were calling him Jimmy Jesus and chanting MVP at Levi's. And so they paid him. And he was for a minute, the highest paid. player in football. And I covered that press conference for NFL network. We carried it live. It was a ray of sunshine for a franchise that it had a rough few years, you know, with the Harbaugh firing and then Tom Sula and Chip Kelly. And they were all fired up. And then, yeah, the way it was told to be by several members of that coaching staff, then he just kind of stopped communicating for

weeks and weeks. And that is not normal behavior for a franchise quarterback, let alone one that you just, you know, made the highest paid guy in football. So that kind of caught them off guard. So I don't want to say Jimmy's not a team guy. He's very, very well liked in a locker room. He's a very likable guy. He's a tough player. And he, you know, played through injuries last year and almost got them to a Super Bowl. But it definitely frustrated his bosses. And it happened again that next off season after, you know, he had suffered the knee injury that wiped out most of 2018. It happened again after 2019 when he had a 10-point lead midway through the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. And the only time that it didn't happen was 2020 when they

drafted Trey Lance after making the train. Then Jimmy, I kept hearing what a great offseason he was having. That was code for he's here and he's engaged. And he, you know, and he did have a really impressive season last year given the injuries he fought through. But then somewhat predictably, after last season ended with the NFC championship gave defeat, he not only stopped communicating, but he went and got his shoulder taken care of on his throwing arm, which they were not in the loop about that decision and then their efforts to trade him were short-circuited largely because of that. Not that he didn't need the surgery, but just the frustration returned. But at this point, they had already kind of psychically moved on to Tray Lance anyway.

Yeah, I mean, I can see people listening to this and saying, so what? You get it. It's like, no, you're not a franchise quarterback, right? You have a regular job. Like, franchise quarterback, you'd prefer not being ghosted for something. seven to eight to nine weeks. I mean, that's... Yeah, and it's... And, you know, these are voluntary activities, but the job of quarterback is considered very different in the NFL,

and that's one reason why they're paid what they're, you know, what they're paid. And, you know, we saw with Kyler Murray, right? There was the infamous clause in his contract that seemed to indicate that his employers don't believe he can be counted on for sure to do outside studying. And you and I talked about that. We talked about Ben Ruff. Berger and how he wasn't a big study earlier his career. So it could be a very sensitive issue.

These guys can care deeply. They can prepare intensely. They can be very tough. But there are different degrees of obsession. And, you know, Peyton Manning, you know, probably tried to use every free second he could to figure out a way to get an edge. Yeah, Aaron Rogers this offseason had all these new receivers. So there was a very valid reason for him to want to get with them timing-wise and start establishing that connection. And he chose to, you know, by his own account, trip.

And I'm joking around. I went to Cal. I'm not judging. But, you know, Aaron Rogers decided not to spend a bunch of time doing that in the off-season. And he may be good enough to get away with that. Tom Brady, you know, hit a point in New England where he wanted to be in L.A. in the off-season. And he wasn't around much. So you can overcome it.

But usually the stories of being overcome usually have to do with guys who are first ballot Hall of Fame level talents. And not guys like Jimmy who are in that next tier or the one below. You know, it's interesting. I said Garoppolo and Tampa makes a lot of sense. I don't think Tom wants to be in Tampa this year. Offensive line is all beat up. He's worked with Garoppolo before. There's no longer a threat.

He's leaving the second the season. seasons over. Garopolo's an accurate distributor on a team with lots of really nice receiving weapons. Now, you've got to look at the salary cap, but you start looking around the league. Teams either have their guy, are going to be drafting their guy, Seattle, Atlanta, or are giving a young guy one more year. Jets, you know, Giants. Tampa. Mike, Tampa feels right to me.

that's interesting i mean i think the giants want them and their cap is so leveraged at least in their perception because i think the cap can always be manipulated but i think the giant's perspective is yeah we think he's better than daniel jones we would rather have him now but you know it costs even even if you reduce the 24 million which i think you would have to it would be tough for us cap lines and then i think the other thing with some of these teams is you think, yeah, we could maybe prop it up with Jimmy and go seven and 10, eight, nine this year and, you know, think we're better than we really are. Oh, we could just take our lumps now. And as you said, draft the next guy a year from now. Although that logic is always tough because the NFL is so

ephemeral that you think you have more time usually than you actually do when you, you know, go through rough patches. Unless you work for Mike Brown. And I don't even say that pejoratively. good for Mike Brown for sticking with Zach Taylor longer than many owners would have and given them that third year and getting rewarded with the Super Bowl. But yeah, at Tampa, that's interesting. I mean, I think about Jimmy. I'd be all ears on that one. You know, and listen, I don't, you know, Tom's a medical marvel that at this age he is

doing what he's done. And I've been expecting for years and years and years for a drop off to happen. and for it to be pretty precipitous the way it was with Peyton and the way we've seen it be with others. And he freakishly defies it year after year. But I also don't subscribe to the weird logic out there that people seem to have. He will play forever. Next year. Watch where he goes when he's 46.

Oh, my God. You're three in Miami, age 48, like at some point, it's, you know, he's going to either get hurt or it's going to fall off quickly. And I also believe, as I think, you know, you've certainly heard this in the past where people say, once a guy starts thinking about retiring, or not mentioning it, you're in football, you're kind of like already retired. Well, he did it and came back. And now we don't know why he missed training camp. But, you know, maybe, as you said, he's already mentally kind of half out the door and working for Fox for lots and lots of money. Yeah, I don't know why he's gone.

My guess is he retired. He promised his family 10 days in Costa Rica or Big Sky Montana. And, you know, your wife and the kids, you don't break promises. That ends up being a longer season than you anticipate. I was shocked because when the story came out that Tom Brady was shopping for a mansion in Las Vegas, I said on the air, it doesn't fit his brand. Why would you want to go play Mahomes twice a year? I didn't buy it at all. Dana White has instructed us, it happened, and it was close.

Were you surprised by that? No, I mean, I knew that they had thought about it. And my perception or my reported perception of what was going on with the Raiders in each of those two off seasons, the one before Brady went to Tampa and then the next one, when Russell Wilson had put them on his list of potential trade suitors, is that ownership was driving the let's get a stop. push that Mark Davis had kind of reached a point with Derek Carr that he wasn't feeling it. He had this new stadium in Vegas that was getting set to open, though it turned out there'd be no fans that first year. But he was all fired up. Like, we can have Tom Brady in this new stadium.

And then the next year, we can have Russell Wilson in this new stadium. And that Gruden and his assistants were, though Gruden certainly wasn't a car. you know, cheerleader, he had come to realize, like, look, this guy's really smart. He's pretty good. And, you know, we think we can get better if we could just get, you know, functional on defense and get him another weapon. So I think it does check out to me that I had heard the thing about Brady looking for houses in Vegas kind of secondhand.

I don't know if that was true. And by the way, Brady could have been looking for a house in Vegas as his Vegas house. You know, anyway, who knows? I do know that it was talked about by the Raiders. I do know that ownership was into the idea of having a star. I believe that Gruden, who is kind of known for telling everyone, you're my guy, you're my guy, you're my guy, you're my guy until they're not. I believe it's possible.

Gruden kind of at least let it get back to Brady's camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're my guy. And then one push gave his stuff, decided, you know, we're going to keep Derek Carr. And in fairness, I think the 40-nighters did the same thing. in a less celebrated way, and that may well have been his first choice that the 49ers thought about it and said, look, we just went to the Super Bowl with Jimmy. We've got this team we think can win now. Brady is very, very old.

Again, he's defying medical science and knowing what we know now, you would have taken that. But I think they thought, what if we do this? And then the whole chemistry collapses. And Brady turns out to be too old or too hurt. and we short-circuited our Super Bowl window or we closed our Super Bowl window prematurely. So in the end, the 49ers made that save decision.

The chargers were all in, by the way. They were totally all in. But one common thing I heard from 49er and Raider people during that time and Stents is that when they looked at the tape of Brady in 2019, they thought he was descending. They thought the arm's strength wasn't quite what it was. Right. And in retrospect, some of the same people have said to me,

well, maybe we should have paid more attention to who his receivers were because he definitely wasn't descending, but it looked like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, search learn the hard way and listen now. Dave Wanstatt, the former Bears and Dolphins head coach.

This is an interesting week. So I said this the other day on Kenny Pickett, you're a Pittsburgh guy. I said he's 24. four-year starter enters a stable organization that may have found the steel in the draft at wide receiver with George Pickens. Those are big advantages that most rookie quarterbacks don't get. They usually have a new coach, Kyler Murray did.

They don't get Mike Tomlin. They don't get the Rooney's. They don't get that stability. They don't get that roster. 24 played his college games in that stadium. Four years starting. Dave, those are huge advantages other college quarterbacks don't have. So my takeaway is listen.

Let's find out if he can be. play. Just put him out there. By the way, you get a break because Deshawn's not going to play until week 13. So I want to know by the end of this year, because next year there's going to be six quarterbacks in the first round. They're calling it one of the biggest quarterback years ever. I want to know by January. Can the kid play or not? But this is not a Kyler-Marie situation where he was a one-year college starter entering complete dysfunction. Same with Burrow. To me, you got to start him. I want to see live bullets. This kid's 24, Dave. You can't

babysit him to me. You know what? I agree with what the Steelers doing now, and I kind of disagree with you a little bit for two reasons. Number one, the age does not bother me. The Steelers, you know, he's in a situation where they expect to win a playoff game or Super Bowl this year. That's the goals.

Different than Kyle Murray, obviously, going to Arizona, new coach, franchise, all the things you mentioned. Here's what happens. If you start a rookie quarterback, in my opinion, and he struggles, you have a real chance to, I don't want to say lose the locker room, but have the locker room question you as a head coach, as a general manager, as an owner. So the best situation for Kenny right now, and I talk to people back there every week, is, you know, Mitch Chubisky, they're not going to have to change one thing when Kenny Pickett

becomes the quarterback. Him and Chubisky are very similar. They're athletes. They can both make plays on the move. They're about the same size, same strength. So the offensive package that Matt Canada puts in, Kenny fits that mold perfectly. So I think that's a big advantage. You put Pickett in there. He struggles early. He struggles early as rookie quarterbacks do. now you put him on the bench, you may ruin that kid, particularly in that town in Pittsburgh. I mean, so Mitch, let Mitch get in there. I think Mitch will win for him, and Kenny is going to get his opportunity.

Mason Rudolph is the guy that's out, in my opinion. You know, he's in that city, he's had his opportunity. It hasn't worked out for whatever reasons. That's the guy that they'll play some, and they got to get him on tape and try to move him on. But it's going to be Tribisky. I have no questions. And then picket's going to be the guy.

No, you know, that's going to happen. But I think it'll work itself on. And the way the Steelers work, they do nothing by knee-jerk reaction. So one good preseason game, you know, and I know the crowd, I was, I was, I thought, I shot a little message out to Kenny after the game. When he came in at Pittsburgh Stadium, you know, up there, it was unbelievable. It was like a playoff mentality. The fans love them, but the Roonies know that.

They're going to take it one step at a time. It's going to be Chubisky, and then Pickett will give his opportunity soon enough. They are not concerned about the age because the guy's never been hurt. He's healthy. He's tough. No problem. So you've had connections to Tampa for years. I don't think it's a big deal.

But Brady decided I'm just taking 14 days off here in the middle of camp. Now, I said this today. Mike Evans is hurt. Chris Godwin is hurt. Russell Gage is hurt. They lost their center for the year. Tristan Worf's got hurt. Tyler Johnson got hurt.

So I'm saying to myself, well, shit, the receivers are all hurt. Why have Brady come in and work with guys he's not going to work with in the regular season? But there are people that say, this is odd. It's a two-week break. And Dave, I look at it. He retired. And I think he made promises to his family. I think he told Giselle and the kids, guys, we're going to take, you guys, you kids are getting older.

You're not going to want to go on vacations with dad. We're going to go on a three-week vacation. and I think when he unretired, my guess is Giselle said, time out, time out, you promised us. Do you think, that's my guess, do you think it would be disruptive if your star quarterback said, guys, I'm going to be gone for 14 days in camp? Yes, I do, except it's Tom Brady. I've never had Tom Brady. I agree with you, Colin.

I think this was all set up during retirement. You know, Todd Bowles is a very honest person. He came out right from the get-go. and said, we have known about this for weeks or months. This is all part of the plan. So, you know, Tampa's not concerned. They're not really changing anything. In fact, if they change anything on offense, to be honest with you, it's going to be

because of Tom's influence. You know, he's not going to go show up back there. And all of a sudden, Byron Leffridge, the offensive coordinator or the head coach Tom Bowles is going to say, you know, I don't really like these four or five plays. These are out. Dang, that's not going to happen. where Bruce, you know, was an offensive guy. Todd Bowles is staying away from it.

So if anything changes, it's going to be because Tom Brady wants it to change for the offense. So I don't see that being a problem whatsoever. And you know he's staying in shape, I mean, and doing all those things. His poor kids, he's probably wearing them out catching footballs. Can you imagine how many balls they're catching a day? That's it. Listen, I know you love your linebackers and Roquan Smith is really good. But I said this the other day.

Years ago, the Golden State Warriors had a player named Monta Ellis. He was very, very good. He was their best player. But he wasn't a great shooter. And the league was pivoting to shooting, three-point shooting. And so they decided to let Monta Ellis go. He had a market and he was their best athlete. But he'd been there a few years and he wasn't generating enough wins.

And so they went with Curry because he was the next, he's what was happening to basketball. ball. Ellis was an all-star. Alice was their best player. He was not a shooter. The game is changing. Roquan Smith is not getting wins for you. Outside of Moody, they don't have a dependable number two receiver. Their offensive line with the Bears isn't very good. And Justin Fields has to work. This can't fail. Again. And I look at Chicago's history. I can't name their top five receivers. I can name their top five linebackers, but the world's changing. I've had general managers tell me, you simply can't pay big money for a linebacker unless it's Ray Lewis or maybe Darius Leonard because he gets the ball back. And in Chicago right now, I look at Roquan Smith and he wants

big money and I'm like, I like him a lot. And he may be the second best player, first best player on the team. But if you could get a star receiver for him or a left tackle with Justin Fields, wouldn't you have to consider it? You would have to consider it. And I'm not sure where the numbers are that, but a couple points in defense of what the bears are doing. I was up there and I had a long talk with Matt Eversluse, the defense coordinator, or the head coach now. And they are going from a three four to a four three. And it's a four three.

There's different types of four three defenses. They are in the mold of what we did at Dallas. I did at Miami, Chicago. They are in the mold of what Tony Dungey and Lovie Sliff did. And when you look, when I go back. and I say, okay, Derek Brooks, in that defense, they are not a blitz team. This is the team that's going to play a lot of different coverages, rush four, and your linebackers better make a lot of tackles.

And Derek Brooks was invaluable for Tampa Bay. Zach Thomas was invaluable for us at Miami. Lance Briggs, Brian Urlacker, were invaluable to the Bears. all the same scheme. So I think you've got to look at the scheme, and you mentioned Darius Leonard. I mean, take a look at Damari Davis. Take a look at Fred Warner.

Take a look at some of the top linebackers right now, and you compare Roquan Smith to these guys, and he's got more tackles than him. I mean, the guy averaged over 100 tackles as old. He's 25 years old. The Bears have a hundred, they will have a hundred million dollars in cap space next year. So if it's bizarre, I'm on board with you, Colin.

If you came in and said, this guy's asking for more money than any linebacker in the league, Bob, on and on and on, then, hey, okay, what can we get for the guy? Let's investigate it. But if we're trying, if he's being reasonable with us, he was in a charity event last week here in Chicago. You know, he's, what do they call the term, in-house, hold on, or whatever the term is. Yeah. You know, whatever that means.

So he's in all the meetings. He's working on. shape. He knows the defense. You know, none of those things bother me. The guys attended charity events around the city. In my opinion, I would do everything I could to get this thing done unless the numbers were absurd.

If they're not, this guy in this scheme of defense makes a huge difference. Because he never comes off the field. He plays to run. He plays the pass. He can blitz. He's got numbers to support. toward everything.

And you compare them with those top guys, in my opinion, he's right there, talent-wise, and production-wise, with all of them. So I would take it to the last straw, is what I'm saying. Yeah, I have my concerns with fields. They have one receiver I like Moody, nice, tight-in, decent backs, but an offensive line that's ranked in the bottom six or seven in the league. I think Detroit's going to be better. Minnesota's going to be better because Kirk Cousins will feel supported.

Green Bay is probably not as good. I don't see light at the end of the tunnel for Chicago. Sell me on what you see. Well, I'll tell you, I had a long talk with Ryan Poole, as a general manager. And we were talking about the cap space that they're going to have, all the draft picks that they're going to have. We will know, and this is going to be a quarterback-friendly offense.

I mean, they're going to give Justin Fields. You know, it may not be the high in-scores offense. I mean, they're going to have to play great defense, but they're going to run the ball and they're going to move him in the pocket, misdirection plays. I mean, they're going to have enough stuff to give him chance to make plays, which he didn't do last year, and they're going to protect them if they got to keep seven guys in the block.

They're going to do everything they can to protect them. By week eight, if we have a conversation, we'll both be in agreeance. It's going to be one of those things where 50 guys in a bar see something. It's probably that way, regardless of what anybody else thinks, you know. And so I think by mid-season, you know, 50 people down here on this street, Michigan Avenue, and a bar, they're going to, we're all going to be on the same page if Justin Fields is the future or not. Yeah, I don't think, you know, Dave, I used to be one of these, give a guy three years. But now with all the seven-on-seven camps, these kids come out, they're ready to play.

Like, I'll give you two years. The timeline I use, I'll give you a year of starting. Yeah. In the second year by Thanksgiving, I'm going to have private conversations with me. my GM and my owner, and I'm going to know. I really feel like I'm not going to give you. I used to be a believer in 48 starts. I'm kind of a believer in 24.

Like I'll know it 24. Like Daniel Jones, listen, he's not accurate enough. He's just not accurate enough. And, you know, Gettelman didn't surround him with much. But I always contend that teams know sooner than they let on. I was told this years ago by an agent. a company decides to fire you a year before they tell you is what would you have to see with Justin Fields that concerned you? Like what was something you go to the GM at Thanksgiving and go, shit, we got a problem here.

The only thing I saw coming back from Ohio State, and I've said this on the air here, you know, the guy in two years starting Ohio State, he was sacked 52 times. You know, 26 sacks a game or whatever it was. you know, and it was over 50, I think it was 52. And I want to see, the biggest thing I want to see, I'm worried about it, is accuracy or speed or I want to see them make the decision and get the ball out quick, you know, and help protect yourself. That's what I got to see. I got to see a quick decision and the ball coming out.

And the style of offense can help that. No question about that. And but that's the one thing that bothered me a little bit because, you know, guys that they got blocking at Ohio State. They're as big as this door. And some of the people that are blocking. So that's a lot of sacks for whatever reason. When you're a balanced offense, they were running the ball. So we got to eliminate those sacks. And the quarterback has as much to do with getting sacked and it's the offensive line. I mean, you've got to get rid of that thing and make a quick decision. That's what I want to see.

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