The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Prime Cuts 6/26/21

Episode Date: June 26, 2021

The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. Colin rants about how Ben Simmons needs to be repurposed (:55), Tom Brady's real genius (2:50), and how the Sixers meltdown could actually be a good thing for the organization (6:00). Marcus Thompson of The Athletic tells us why Ben Simmons to the Warriors makes a lot of sense (8:55), Nick Wright of FS1's First Things First explains why we could see Zion with the Knicks sooner rather than later (22:25), and Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated and Fox Sports on the "sticky stuff" controversy in baseball (28:45). Plus, with the big changes happening in Dallas, we flash back to Colin's interview with Mark Cuban when he talked about what he learned from Dirk, and the mistakes he won't make with Luka (36:39). Make sure to follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor?

It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations, with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

You coming to bed, hon? Yep, honey, I'll be right there. Just got to turn out the light. Ow! Some things never change. Like your kids always leaving tiny toys on the floor. for you to step on. And Geico's saving folks lots of money on their car insurance.

Sweetie, I think I left the downstairs light on. Please don't make me go. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast. This week we have Marcus Thompson of The Athletic. He's great talking about why a Ben Simmons trade to the Warriors makes sense for both teams. Nick Wright, his take on why Zion could end up in New York

sooner, rather than, than later, even if he does sign an extension with the Pelicans. Tom Verducci, S.I. Fox Sports on baseball's sticky stuff controversy. And as the Mavericks are making big organizational changes, we revisit my interview with Mark Cuban from a few months ago, where he talks about what he learned from Dirk and the mistakes he won't make with Luca. Interesting stuff in hindsight. But first, my top takes of the week.

You know, people are bagging on Ben Simmons, justifiably so, because he can't shoot. that's sort of a problem. It is called basketball, not basketball. You got to put it in the hoop. It doesn't mean though Ben Simmons can't still be a force in this league, seriously. You know, there's a word out there that if you're about my age, you probably never even heard of until the 90s or early 2000s. In fact, it wasn't used until like the mid-80s.

The word was repurpose. And basically it means find a new purpose for something that's different from its original use. And I like what it implies. Like nothing is ever useless. just find another use, sometimes a better use for it. I mean, in sports, Julian Edelman was a quarterback, until Belichick made him a wide receiver. He repurposed him.

Dennis Sackersley, remember him, burned out, done with the Cubs. Manager Tony Laruso brought him to the A's, moved him to the bullpen. He's one of the greatest examples. He was repurposed. I mean, how many times have you seen an old car tire as a kid's tire swing? A lot of times we blame the player for not succeeding. And sometimes it is the player's fault. but every player needs a coach or a GM and a direction.

And for most guys, they come in as raw prospects. I mean, Ben Simmons is only 24. And even that's misleading because he barely played any college basketball. I mean, more people have probably seen Bigfoot than saw him play for LSU. He missed his first entire season with an injury. So the guy's basically three or four years into his career. Well, I mean, Trey Young, many people thought D'Andre Ate and Trey Young a year in we're just not going to work. So Ben Simmons isn't done at all. He needs to be repurposed as a point

forward or the Golden State Warriors big who can run the floor. There's a lot he can do. What he can't do is be relied on to hit jumpers. But repurpose him. Do a Dennis Eckersley. Something else on my mind. Tom Brady was on a show uninterrupted with Maverick Carter, LeBron James. It's the kind of LeBron Purdue show. And Brady was one of the guests this week. And it made news because he took a shot. Many believe at Jimmy Garoppolo. Brady was recounting when he left New England. One of the teams in the end that wasn't interested in him, he didn't say who it was. Many perceive it to be the Niners. He said, you know, late in the process, one of the teams wasn't interested in me. And I thought, you like that, mother effort? And the perception again is

Jimmy Garoppolo. The truth is the market was really small for Tom. There was about four teams that really wanted him. I was told the Chargers really wanted him. I know they did. That has been confirmed. And I know Tampa really wanted him. And the Colts kicked the tires. But let's not do revisionist history here. Tampa was the perfect spot for Tom. And he really chose that. Because what they needed was a right tackle and probably needed a little more of a running game. But Brady wouldn't be nearly successful in a lot of these other places. When he signed with Tampa, what was our first takeaway. God, all that's missing is a quarterback. If you put them on Philadelphia right now, if you put them on half this league's rosters, Tom would not have had this success. Tom's smartest

strength, much like Peyton Manning going to Denver, he saw himself as a missing piece. I mean, we said when Tom went to Tampa, shit, man, look at those wide receivers. Look at those tied ends. All they needs a right tackle. We knew their defense was good with Todd Bowles. Because the previous year before Tom got there. If you remember, post- Thanksgiving, the Buccaneers defense, right, number one in the NFL. So the credit goes to Tom Brady scouting the Buccaneers before he landed there. But Tom isn't the kind of athlete at this point where you put him behind a bad O line with average receivers. I mean, you really think he's going to change the Titans significantly? No. So it's almost like presidents never get credit for the crisis.

they avoid, you know? And there's a lot of little details presidents make and decisions, and they avoid economic disasters. You never get credit for the mistakes you avoid. You know, Brady gets credit for revitalizing his career, but his greatest asset was his knowledge of football and going to the right spot for him. You had an old Drew Breeze, rebuilding Carolina, up and down, hot and cold Atlanta, Tampa had the best offensive talent in the division. And we can argue now they had the best defensive talent in the division as well. Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl in Denver. He went to the place, a winnable division, Prima Holmes.

Philip Rivers was aging. Raiders were the Raiders. And he went to a really good defense. And they had a nice offensive line. So that's the strength of Manning and Brady. The dudes no personnel. and they went to spots that could protect them and elevate them as they could no longer carry a football team. I just finished watching the Sixers' debacle against Atlanta.

Never has a team had this much talent and been so hard to watch at the end of a basketball game than the Sixers. But, you know, I'll say something I said during the week on television. is that sometimes you need a really bad fight to realize it's time to get a divorce. And you really needed that ending and this series for the M.B.E. Simmons relationship to break. It just doesn't work. Simmons can't be on the floor. You know, M. B. can't stay healthy. And it's a bit of a turnover mess sometimes at the end of games and the half court set. It doesn't work. But they're so talented that you'll keep talking yourself into it. I compare it to a Hollywood relationship.

Oh, they're both beautiful. Oh, their careers are on fire. How does this marriage not work? Well, probably because, you know, they don't sacrifice or they're not committed to each other. And I feel like with Embedde and Simmons, it's just two ships passing in the night. Neither game works for the other. They don't like each other. It's well documented during the All-Star game.

Both made the All-Star game. They wouldn't fly together on a private jet. They don't like each other. The games don't fit. The personalities don't fit. But they're so gifted that you talk yourself into keeping them together for years and years. You needed this.

You needed to lose to a marginally talented Atlanta team. You needed to look ugly at the end of games. It's just a basketball team that's situationally when you have to take Ben Simmons off the floor, you know, Seth Curry becomes far more valuable than Ben Simmons at the end of games, especially if you're trailing by a few points. So I watched the Sixers and I think, hey, we had to break this thing up. This was not a championship team. Championship talent, but not championship chemistry.

And Doc Rivers will take a ton of heat for it because whenever a team loses games close, the coach takes the hit. You know, people killing Quinn Snyder because he didn't go small in the series against the Clippers ever. But the reality is his best player is Donovan Mitchell, and he was playing at about 80%. Well, so Mike Connolly's not healthy, Donovan Mitchell's hurt. you're not going to beat a Clipper team. Even with Kauai Leonard out, Paul George was virtually unguardable. Utah doesn't have the personnel.

So we tend to blame these coaches, and they're certainly imperfect. But the Philadelphia situation, how many coaches are we going to fire before we realize Simmons and Embed talented, it's a bad marriage? On the court, off the court, it just doesn't work. And you needed to lose this series. And the way they lost it was perfect. ugly, more talent had leads, and little young, Tray Young carries the Hawks to the Eastern Conference Finals.

All right, let's bring in my friend Marcus Thompson, Bay Area, a columnist for the athletic. He's written books on KD and about Steph Curry. Steph Curry Golden was the first time that I knew a lot about Marcus Thompson. I think he's so connected. He's got a great way of seeing the NBA. and we'd love to have them in the volume. We just can't afford him. Shit, guy is expensive.

That's all I know. You know what I'm saying? It's about time I've been expensive in my life. You know how many times I've rolled myself out for $5 in the pack of an isleaders, you know? So I'm watching that Sixers stuff. By the way, as one of the guys on the staff said, Kevin Herder has never not been underestimated on any NBA floor he's ever entered. Kevin Herder and Trey Young oust Ben Simmons.

I mean, let's just, let's cut to the chase here. I said this on the herd this week. This is how it had to end for the Sixers because we keep talking ourselves into this, Marcus, because they're so talented and M.B. and Simmons that we just keep talking ourselves into it's going to work. It had to end this way, in my opinion. It had to be ugly. They had to lose leads.

We had to go, oh, shit, this just doesn't work. We can't keep firing coaches on this stuff. It's like a bad breakup, right? Like you need that real fight. So you can be like, yo, we don't, we don't need to be together.

I mean, it doesn't get worse than losing to Kevin Herder. Right? Like in on your, how do you lose three times on your own floor? I don't. It's unbelievable that this team wasn't able to at least get to the Eastern Conference finals in this year.

This year, you don't have to face Brooklyn, right? You kind of got a cakewalk to the finals. It's, yes. It's over. It's done.

Now we know it. You did it in front of Alan Iverson. That's what really hurts my heart. Alan Iverson had to sit there and watch that. You know, he dragged Aaron McKee and Eric Snow to the finals and these dudes got the better roster and lose it to the five seat. I mean,

pray for Alan Iverson tonight because this has hurt this heart. Well, a better roster. I mean, and I mean this, Atlanta, and I say this with all due respect, that is one of the. weakest rosters I've ever seen get to a conference final. And I love Trey Young, but think about this, Marcus. They got to an Eastern conference final, not only on the road, Trey Young had his worst shooting night in the playoffs. I mean, the fact that that that happened, I mean, one thing of Trey Young shot 17 to 26 and you're like, we lost, we give up, the

Wiz kid. Shit, he played poorly for all but about the last four minutes. But that's how you beat Philly, right? Stay close. They're going to all apart. So look, they tricked me a little bit. They tricked me a little bit. I must admit, when Embed, like, totally, like, wet the bed. It was a game five in Philly.

And it was like, oh, he was hurt. And I'm like, this team has, they don't have the clutch gene. Like, they don't have it. You don't come back from that. Then they do it. Then they go ahead and win game six. And it's like, all right, maybe this thing is settled. But no, you know what happened in game six?

They didn't get down to the end. It didn't come down to, we got to make plays over and over and over again in the crutch. And it happened to get tonight. So Trey was terrible. And then the game was close because Kevin Herder wouldn't stop hurting him. And next thing you know, now Philly's got to make plays. And they don't have the gene.

They don't have the gene. Nope. Joel and B does not have the gene. Ben Simmons, like, he doesn't even have the chemistry set to discover the gene. Like, Tobias Harris was bad. Like, they don't have the player. Meanwhile, Trey Young, three-foot, three-foot Sunday is making all kind of plays when they matter. Like, this, you got to break this up.

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But if you're considering getting in on the fun of sports gambling, I want to let you know about a great resource, the Action Network. The Action. Network is where fans go when they're ready. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the

athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont. Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. to look back at it on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. The bet smarter and turn a profit betting on sports. In fact, their free action network app, free, recently named the best app in sports betting. With the action app, you can, one, see the latest picks and articles from the Action Network gambling experts, too. Compare odds from different sports books. And three, track every bet you make, so you always know how your picks are doing. So if the game means more to you, download the free Action Network app and start betting smarter. It's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all-in-one commerce platform I love to start run and grow your business.

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Manage your day-to-day. Reach customers online with an ever-growing suite of channel integrations and apps. including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Pinterest, and more. More than a store, Shopify grows with you. Go to Shopify.com slash Colin, all lowercase. Shopify.com slash Colin for a free 14-day trial, full access at Shopify's entire suite of features. Shopify.com slash C-O-L-I-N.

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He was a little lost at times. Yeah, very lost. There were people saying he was a bust. I mean, there were people that were out on it because he was a dominant college player at Arizona. And I remember hearing people like scouts, they're like, I don't know, he's lost. And by the way, this is where Chris Paul is so great. He can cinch everything together. He's so smart.

But you know what I like about them? Everybody always talks about positionless basketball because LeBron's the Swiss Army knife and Kevin Durant can do everything. But they're actually constructed like an 80s team. True point guard with a legitimate backup. So true. So Chris Paul only has to play 31 minutes. Two athletic wings, one old, Crowder, one young, a rim protector who can move. And then they have bench players.

And they have a star guard. If you look at how they're built, it's not positionless. Everybody's got a defined role. And for me, as a fan, I like watching them play. It feels almost like 80s and 90s basketball. They're not positionless. They all have it. They know exactly what they do and who they are.

And the beauty of it is they can switch up the style of play. For me, what makes them so appealing is the diversity. Like they can go half court. They can walk you down and midrange you to death, right? Or they could go small and just run. They got horses like bridges and Booker. Aitin is not slow. They can play that way.

Like, you know, styles make fights, right? They can contrast however you want to play. it's exciting to watch they've got and they've got you're right they're much more like the barkly sons right than the seven seconds or less nash sons right they're like just how they're how they're set up it is a very traditional even like the sizes right they don't have a player who's too small or too big for his position right like everybody's like the height they're supposed to be which is well the back court's perfect the back court's perfect so i have this distribution first veteran point guard who can score but he's a throwback he plays defense he yells

at people and he hits midrange he's like an 80s guard but we all know that devon bookers the true scoring guard so that's a perfect back court and he's like six five right like he's not little yeah and then you have a backup to the veteran point who can spell him for about 12 minutes a game so like if you go back to the 80s and in like the laker teams there was the norm nixon there was the byron Scott, there was the magic, there was the Cooper. You always had this role, and they all had roles. Cooper played defense, magic distributes. Nixon could shoot.

Like, you know, the whole positionless thing, I, nothing against it. But yeah, that's because LeBron and KD can do everything. But most players do one or two things exceptionally well. Like everybody's trying to make Janus a three-point shooter. Cut that shit out. He's a big. Like he is within six feet, he's unstoppable. Outside of it, let him shoot.

Like, let guys do what they do. right like he's pulling up with 20 seconds of the shot collect like please don't you stop that and that's you know uh aton right you don't see him dancing on the perimeter nope trying to chuck three he's trying to like he's like yo i'm six foot 11 and i'm a beast so you're about to get this work so there there's man look monnie uh monny williams is an old school guy right so you know they're getting a bit of that that feel and that vibe it's that is a very unique take they're They are old. They're an old school team.

This is like a, you know, Afro and butterfly collar type team. You know what I'm saying? Like they had throwback. It's like 80s night, 70s night in Phoenix every night. And the crowd is even throwback, right? Like they got the rocket situation going.

They're fighting in the crowd like a Raiders game. Like you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, this is actually a good throwback team. And look, they got the two best mid-range shooters in the game. And Chris Paul and Devin Booker. They are literally killing teams with jabs and body blows, right?

Like, just all game long. This is throwback. Kevin Jocelyn will be proud. You're incredibly tied in not only to the NBA, but the Warriors. And you start looking at the Ben Simmons situation. There have been a lot of rumors about, you know, Simmons could fit Golden State. They don't need his shooting. They need his defense.

They need his size because they can get small. And they can ship like Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, multiple picks. Do you buy that Simmons Warriors rumor at all? Yeah. I mean, I don't think they're into Simmons that much. I think there's a split. There are some people who are like, man, give me that much talent. I'll make it work. But I think the Draymond problem is a big concern. They already have a guy who's kind of like that, right? But Draymond is like a little bit, not a little bit. He's definitely more aggressive offensively. But he doesn't stick to three. You don't have to guard. You don't have to

guard him like that. So I think they're concerned about putting two of those guys together. I don't know. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free, IHartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. They pull the trigger, but at this point, look, Holland, the price ain't what it used to be. So it might be like, yo, I got this Mercedes for you for $500. It's like, who wouldn't take it? Right. At some point.

Right. Right? It's like, yo, I mean. No, I talked about this the other day. I said, Embed, once a big gets hurt, you better move him early. He's just going to lose market value every injury. Listen, I love Ambid. He's the closest thing I've seen to Shaq. But I'm not giving you a ton form. I'm baking in his injuries. I'm just going to say as a GM, brother, where do you want me to go on that?

This is not a nine-year player. This may not be a four-year player. Facts, yeah. I'm not, I think the price is. is dropping. I think the price is dropping, not just because, like, you got the injuries with him B, you got the fact that he just didn't close, and this is not the first time. He didn't close out Atlanta. And wherever he goes, you know, he's a guy who's going to want the ball. Ben Simmons stock way down, right? You got to, you can't play him at the end of games. Though I wonder, if he hung out with Clay, would this be an issue? Clay would have him shooting free throws at 80% Ray. Hang with Clay

is a life solution. Clay right now is swimming in the Bay Area in the literal bay. Put Ben Simmons with Clay for an offseason. I bet you we shoot 80% from Free their life. Well, also, Simmons can give you 19 to 22 a game as long as you don't have a dominating

big clogging it up. That's fine. That's why he's perfect. That's why he's perfect. You got Clay, you got Steph, you got Dremont, and they're pushing it. He's incredible in transition. You're not asking him to do this and also it's not clashing with the big guy who needs to be posted unless you know somehow Steve Kerr decides that you know we're going to turn James Wiseman into Joelle and B but I don't think

that's happening at all but I think Simmons is a is a is a fit in a sense that he can play the warrior's style and you don't need a shooting I just wouldn't give up a lot for him after what we you saw. Now it's like I got some used Air Jordans and you know what I'm saying? Maybe Wiggins right like I give Wiggins and Wiseman. That's

a lot. That was the price before. What was the price for James Harden? It was like a pick or Okay how about Wiggins Wiseman and you give me your first round pick? I get the Sixers number one pick but I'll give you Wiggins Wiseman and Simmons. I get

Simmons. I do that. Did you know Amazon provides ways of working that fit your lifestyle? They know you value your time outside of work, juggling family, school, friends, or other activities. That's why they offer a variety of shifts that work for you. There are full-time, part-time, and even temporary opportunities that can work with your schedule, with great starting pay and sign-on bonuses. If you want a career that fits and adapts to your lifestyle, head to Amazon.com slash apply. Amazon is a proud, equal opportunity employer.

And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.

And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size.

Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nets and Nets. and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination.

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. All righty, my buddy Nick Wright, host, First Things First, FS1s joining us. So, you know what I always think is funny, Nick, is that, and I've watched a lot of people do this to their careers in radio and television. Like, they have a flaw, and they just don't correct it. And, I mean, there's no perfect broadcaster, but they'll, like, some people just don't have a great voice or their, you know, whatever, there's a deficiency. But there are people that are really talented, but they keep making the same mistake over. over and over and over and over. And like, with Ben Simmons, you're like, dude,

this is not this difficult. It's a free throw. It's free. It's a free throw. I'm always shocked when the solution is easy. It's not like we're asking him to be quick or ad vertical. It's like it's a free throw. It is unguarded. What do you make of that? Well, I think it, I listen, he, I talked someone close to Ben after game five when he said whatever, whichever game he said, yeah, I was in my own head. It's mental. And the person said, yeah, he shouldn't have said that because now that's out there. Now that's in the universe.

Now people are talking about it being mental. That the advice was, no, just say you had a bad shooting night. But the thing is this. It was 100% in his head. It is 100% mental. and that has to be, at least to me, Colin, a massive concern. It's why it's not free. It's why it's not easy because he is thinking so hard

and you saw it on the play that Embedde said turned the game, Colin. Where he said, well, what turned the game was we could have gotten two points and we got one point and they scored the next time down. He had a dunk, but he was so afraid of going to the line that he you pass the ball and then that's that. Compare that to Janus, who they're counting. One, two, three. He's airballing, free throws. And he just kept attacking and ended up making seven in a row in the biggest game of his life.

If my career was only going to be 14 years and I was tied, financially tied to my first job for four years. And I didn't even grow up poor. I didn't grow up rich, but I didn't grow up poor. Many professional athletes don't grow up with a ton of money, right? And I got 14 years to make it. And I get drafted by a mess of a franchise that couldn't get Chris Paul or Anthony Davis right. Zion's going to be on his third coach in three years. This is where I always sided with pro athletes.

I would be fucking impossible to deal with. One of the reasons, even if I sign a contract and don't love it, you know, I'll be out in two and a half, three years. I can go somewhere else if I was ever unhappy. I don't blame Zion. The Pelicans are a mess. They're owned by a football owner, who, by the way, they run a hell of a football operation. They run a real bad basketball operation. There was a story by Tom Haberstro or somebody that they're probably the most likely relocation franchise.

Like, I side with him. Like, what I hope is this, Nick, players have always had two revenue streams, the stars, shoes and basketball. They now have a third social media. I think if he goes to a Knicks or a Lakers, he can make the money up in shoes and social media, and it's really not that big of a loss. Well, yeah, I think financially he could make it even. The thing is this, what they've got the rookies buy financially is the risk. He would have to basically take a massive risk for a year and assuming nothing traumatic injury-wise happens.

Then by the end of his career, he does probably make the money. But it is, and Marcus Thompson, who you talk to, I actually heard him make this point. Or he was on a podcast where somebody made this point. I think it's a good one, which is part of, you mentioned these guys don't grow, a lot of guys don't grow a ton of money, right? And he made the point. There is some social pressure from your peer group of friends at home if it comes out in the public.

Like, really? You turned down $150 million. You said no to that. Like, sign the contract. Just go ahead and maybe you just sign to take the money. So I understand that part of it. And I also understand why we've never seen our guy on his rookie contract turned down the max extension.

But somebody eventually will. And your point on New Orleans, it would really bother me if I knew my team owner that we are the second most important team they own. Like what? Like that would bother me. I don't think I'd love that as a pro athlete. And I also wouldn't love the history. I think New Orleans is an awesome city.

I also, you know, previously have said, I think David Griffin's a good GM. I don't think he's done a, I don't think the Sam Van Gundy hire was a great one. We'll see how the moves work. But I, here's where I think it's going to thread the needle, Colin. And this is where I think NBA guys,

the true superstars really have the leverage. I think guys can sign the contract. to lock in the money and then still leave. Like we've never seen an NBA team willing to be like, no. You're under, James Hardin was under contract for two more years. He had one press conference. Like, I got to get out of here. They traded him in four days to the exact place you wanted to go to.

So like, I think Zion and Luca can sign the deals and the team still know it's year to year. Because the moment they really want out, we're going to have to get them out. So I think that's what happens. I think Zion, he's played two years for the Pelicans. I would say, I think he will play at least five years for the Pelicans. Anthony Davis played seven. You know, LeBron played seven. I think he'll play at least five and evaluate then.

But they got a lot of work to do, man. They got a lot of work to do just to be a second round playoff team, much less a championship contender. Well, when there was a baseball topic, I called two people. Bob Costas or Tom Verducci, and since we had Codagh, and since we had Kossis, we would have taken Verducci ahead of Bob, obviously. But Tom is joining us,

Sports Illustrated senior baseball writer, reporter for Fox Baseball and Major League Baseball, three-time national sports writer of the year. He is the premier baseball writer, in my opinion, in the last 10, 15 years, minimum. And Tom's joining us. So let's get to the sticky stuff controversy because you've been somebody who's been willing,

if you hear stuff, that's not necessarily great news for the sport. To be honest about it and up front, you talked very early on the steroids. When did you hear about TAC? Was it last year? Was it around a batting cage? Did you read about it?

When did you hear about it? Well, Con, you've got to go back a few years to find out about the whole suntan lotion and rosin combo that was going on. Yes. That was probably, I wanted to go, you know, even maybe six, seven years ago, started hearing about that.

And if you watched the game, you saw guys playing at night with their arms lathered with suntan lotion and they're going to it after every pitch, right? So that's when I first realized there's something going on here besides just, you know, grabbing the rosin bag and using some sweat or licking your fingers to put something on the baseball. But it was really in the last, I want to say, three to four years that you started seeing ridiculous spin rates because we started tracking those in 2015. So now we had actual data besides what we were watching to say there's something. really interesting, if not fishy going on here. And then after talking to pitchers, pitching coaches and whatnot, you realize that they're now chasing spin rate more than they're chasing velocity.

That was mind-blowing concept to me because we've always been in love with the radar gun, right? The guy throws hard, he's hard to hit. But they figured out that actually spin rate has a greater effect on limiting hitting than velocity. And now because they have slow, high-speed cameras, they can figure out all the spin rates, and how to generate that to maximum purpose. And that's why I started making these combinations of pine tar, diet Coke,

melting pint tar down, all kinds of scientific things going on to maximize spin rates. And I'm saying this is going on, Colin. This has been going on even in the minor leagues, systematically in organizations. So I would say the last two to three years is when I started hearing that this had jumped really from maybe a few guys to something that was industry-wide. So after the Astro scandal and, of course, the steroid scandal predated that, it's pretty obvious that baseball, once this started getting talked about in mainstream media, they jumped on it. You love to figure this out in the offseason. It looks aesthetically pretty choppy to frisk guys during a game. The optics are not great. The other day I said I compared it to the NFL catch rule where guys made catches. They'd go to super slow-mo. The ball would move a lot. little in the elbow crease and you'd say no catch. It looked really bad. It's obviously a catch. And Roger Goodell had come on my radio show and

acknowledged. It's bad television. It looks bad. So is it fair to say Manfred was, if you knew about it three years ago, other players knew about it probably three and a half years ago, was baseball reticent to get involved, slow? Because it kind of feels like now they're being reactive in the middle of a season and kind of it's clunky as they make it up as they go. Right. But I think you have to rewind the tape here because go back to preseason 2020 when MLB really did know that there was a lot more than just a few guys doing something to baseball. So they sent out a memo. It was Chris Young at the time, vice president of baseball operations for MLB, to all the clubs addressed to all the managers and general managers, essentially saying knock it off.

here's the rule that's in the books and there is a rule that you can't have it on your possession. Obviously, you can't put it on a baseball. It was a warning to the players to knock it off. But there was really no enforcement to it, right? So behavior is not going to change without enforcement. Right. Then this year they sent another memo out. And they said, oh, and we're also going to have monitors down at the field to see that nothing fishy is going on.

We are going to take samples of baseballs out of the game and look at what. on them and figure out what you're putting on baseballs. And we're going to monitor your individual spin rate because it really shouldn't change that much, not by going up three, four, 500 RPMs is what we've seen. That was another case where MLB is trying to get players to change their behavior on their own. And they didn't. So now they went past the warning phase, the evidentiary phase to finally the enforcement phase. And they gave them a few weeks here to make the adjustment, right? Because the word went out there early in June. June, they gave two or three weeks to say, we're not going to start enforcing this,

but here's our time now to start cleaning things up and make the adjustment. So I do not buy the argument that this was dropped on the players out of the blue midseason. Oh, my goodness, we can't change. No, you've been warned for two years to knock it off. And it's like your kids disciplining them, right? You threaten them with a curfew, but until you actually do it, it doesn't have any effect. So it took now the enforcement phase to start to change behavior. And I agree with you, Colin. It's not a great look. They're trying to do it as unobtrusively as they can, but there's no other way around it. It is uptrusive. But it needs to be done. There's a certain amount of theater to it, sort of like TSA at the airport. It just has to be done. And there's going to be one time where someone's going to be foolish enough to be caught. But it's more about making sure that now there's an enforcement phase to this. And that changes behavior, not just a warning.

All right, Tom, what I'm about to say, you cover baseball intensely. So this is going to sound ridiculous, and you can take shots at me. But what Sho Hay Otani is doing is Babe Ruthian. He throws 100 and leads baseball and homers. Now, throughout the course of my life, there have been athletes, Dave Winfield, who really could have played multiple sports. I mean, Will Chamberlain basketball, multiple sports. We know LeBron was Allstate in Ohio as a football player.

That's understood. But to throw it 100 and to lead baseball in home runs, that is Ruthian. Give me the players, Tom, since you've covered baseball. I mean, nobody's doing it, but you thought it could get into that sphere in that, because I can't think of anybody. No, it's zero. First of all, I go back to Bo Jackson when he was playing baseball, right? Amazing athlete.

There was nobody on the field who looked like Bo Jackson. But I wouldn't say his skill set, you know, as far as high average hitter, was really extraordinary. This is what's amazing about Otani. He's a great athlete. And yet his skill set in multiple phases of the game is elite, elite hitter, elite runner, elite pitcher. We have not seen this since Babe Ruth. This is the most underappreciated story in baseball. Easily.

And I don't know how long, maybe since Babe Ruth 100 years ago. Let me put this, let me put this in context for you. This year, Otani is hitting the baseball harder than Juan Soto. He is throwing the baseball harder than Walker Bueller. And I mean, it's crazy. And he's running faster than Brett Gardner. So he's doing things out of baseball field that we literally, haven't seen in a hundred years. And it's amazing. Mark Cuban's one of those guys that's fascinating.

I frankly, I think Donald Trump opened the door for celebrities to run for president. And I would be a huge fan of Mark Cuban. I don't have to agree with every candidate on every issue. I really don't. That's not how I think. I'm an independent. I go left socially, fiscally right. But I think Cuban would be a fascinating candidate if he put himself out in the first. Frey, and he is joining us now. So, Mark, we've talked a lot of times about different stuff, and we talk sports and business, and I'm a guy that's fascinated with business, and you know a lot more of it than I do. And you always respond to, you placate me when I email you with my stupid questions.

I'm going to throw this at you, that I'm a big fan of mobility. It's the only reason I've had success in my life. I have moved for commerce. The NBA, I am a huge proponent of player mobility. I support all players with mobility. Owners can move franchises, GMs, coaches, move players can too. But yet you and Dirk were together 21 years. It's the greatest, longest relationship for any player and a team.

Could I make the argument that player mobility, which there's less of in the NFL, is not always a good thing for your sport? It's great for the summertime ratings. It's more difficult during the season. There's no question about it because, you know, continuity, corporate knowledge is always a good thing for a team. So there's definitely challenges there.

And it creates a lot of Ajeda as well. You know, when you have a great player, every team stresses about, and fan-based stresses about, you know, will you lose them? And so, you know, the minute you find out somebody's great, you start working really hard to make them successful. Do you use Dirk's career at all as a template for Luca? What did you learn to do and maybe not to do? I learned a lot more what not to do, you know, and some things to do.

I mean, one of the most important things is I don't think I fully appreciated Dirk while he was playing, you know, because it was all new to me and I was getting into the whole, you know, experience of having a team and enjoying it and, you know, 20 years ago. And so I don't think I fully, fully register of me just on the excellence I was seen in front of my eyes for so many years. And I won't make that same mistake with Luca. And in terms of keeping Luca for the next 21 or actually 25 years, you know, with the way medicine and science is going, you start, you know, you start building those types of relationships now because this is a relationship business. And, you know, I have to understand the goals of every player and some I can help come true and some I can't. But, you know, the underpinning is winning. It's really hard to leave a team that is doing really well and winning. From the outside, Mark, they look like different.

I'll just throw my opinion out, and you can tell me if I'm wrong. They look like different people. Luca's a little feistier. Luca was greater, younger. Luca has perhaps more domestic star appeal. That's what it looks like to me. He's a little more mature early. That's what I see.

Is that harder to manage, do you think? No, it's different simply because, you know, even when I got to the Mavs and Dirk had been a year and a half in Dallas by then, there were still language challenges for Dirk. You know, you know, he, German was his first, second, and third language, and he had to learn English. He knew some from school, but he wasn't comfortable with it. He wasn't comfortable expressing himself, you know, and because of that, I think he held back, whereas Luca is completely confident. He speaks multiple languages like it's nothing, Spanish, Serbian, Slovenian, English, you know,

and, you know, maybe every now and then I'll miss a word. But so that allows him to be much more confident than Dirk was. And then just generally, you know, while they both have that. same burning desire to be the best. I think Dirk, Luca, Luca and Dirk are similar in that whether there's kids, hospitals, people in need, they both are there, right? There's no question. You don't have to ask them. You don't have to force them. They voluntarily want to help. That's a strong similarity. But I do think Luca is just a little bit more outgoing at the same age. And maybe a lot that has to do with social media. You know, who knows what Dirk would have been

like if he had 10 million Instagram followers or, you know, Dirk dancing and was on TikTok, you know, it could be a whole different ballgame. But social media definitely has an impact because remember, Luca was a star in Europe and he had a big following there. And so that made a big difference as well. That wraps it up for the week. We're heading into another big week here at the volume.

Make sure to subscribe and follow us at the volume sports on Twitter and Instagram. The volume. Becoming a magician takes thousands of hours. Right, Ashley? Oh, I'm not a magician. I'm a design specialist at the container store. But you transform closets and pantries. Well, I turn your most frustrating spaces into ones you love.

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Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy. guy not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to and learn. Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but

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