The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Prime Cuts 7/3/21

Episode Date: July 3, 2021

The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. Colin has takes on which college athletes would have made the most if NIL rules had changed earlier (:56), why Scottie Pippen got what he deserved with his new book (2:20), and his DM convo with Damian Lillard about leaving Portland (5:40). Legendary Bulls writer Sam Smith on the ups and downs of Scottie Pippen, the inaccuracies in "The Last Dance," and why Zach LaVine is better than Devin Booker (9:50). Chris Mannix on possible Ben Simmons trades, and why Kyrie Irving is not leaving Brooklyn (23:35). Plus New York broadcasting icon Michael Kay on his battles with Mike Francesa and Craig Carton, as well as his most interesting and disastrous interviews (36:20). Make sure to follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action!  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a hear, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

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This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast, really interesting week. Legendary Bulls writer Sam Smith, who wrote the great book The Jordan Rules, talks about the inaccuracies of The Last Dance, the documentary about MJ, driven by MJ, and the bizarre behavior of Scottie Pippen, he would know. Sports Illustrated senior writer Chris Mannix, insights on a possible Damian Lillard trade for Ben Simmons, and why Kyrie Irving is untradable. Plus, New York sports broadcaster Michael Kay,

voice of the Yankees, been hosting a talk radio show in New York for years, got a new book out, good dude, a lot of great stories, a lot of depth, but first my top takes of the week. If the new N-I-L rules, that's name-image-likeness rules, had always existed, give me a top-five athletes who would have cashed in the most. Well, I'll give you three. Tebow, Reggie Bush, Vince Young. The one name being thrown out that I roll my eyes at is Johnny Mansell.

Okay. Johnny Mansell plays for Texas A&M, which is about a quarter of the size of Texas in terms of overall fan base and about one-third the size of Oklahoma. Johnny Mansell was a blip. Those Aggie teams were never a threat to win the national championship. And they're barely, barely a regional brand. Texas is a national brand. USC is a national brand.

Florida is a southern brand. Texas A&M at best is a marginal state of Texas brand. It's not as big as the Cowboys. It's not as big as Texas. Oklahoma football. is bigger than Texas A&M in Texas. Don't believe me? Look at the players they sign over the last 20 years.

The best high schoolers have almost always leaned Oklahoma over Texas A&M. The kids in Texas who can play are telling you that. After that, it's all up for debate. But Tebow Bush, Vince Young, top three in any order. Scotty Pippin and Carmelo Anthony would make my first team all lack of self-awareness team. I covered Scotty for a couple of years. Scotty's really talented, a great athlete, but he just never had an understanding of how he was viewed. He was really athletic and really talented.

And one of the great defenders in the history of the league, great length, great quickness for his size, offensively a great slasher. But, you know, Scotty was always viewed as somebody who when he was briefly given the number one role for the Bulls after a year, he unraveled. Scotty was never emotionally, mentally a one. He was a two. He was a small town kid that Chicago is the big city and Michael was big enough for the room. Scotty wasn't. He was in a perfect role as a two from the interviews to running the team to a practice guy to somebody that you could rely on. He was always viewed as a great two. But Scotty always kind of wanted to be paid like a one and treated like a one. Now, many people have insinuated, well, Scotty had a bad contract.

He had a right to be mad. Nobody had a worse contract than Michael Jordan. Magic Johnson's first contract was 25 years, $25 million. Guys back then, a lot of stars had bad contracts. They made money, though. They started to make big money, obviously, with Jordan and Magic, with their shoes. But Scotty's always had a little bit of an axe to grind. And so when Jordan comes out with his 10-part documentary, and it kind of, you know,

marginalizes Scotty. I didn't think it did. I thought, you know, Scotty wasn't that interesting. He was just the second best player on a really fascinating team. Rodman was fascinating. The Steve Kerr Michael Jordan relationship where Michael punched him. Fascinating. The Michael Jerry Krause relationship. Fascinating. The Ku coach Pippen Jordan relationship. Fascinating. You know, I mean, Rodman was nuts. Scottie wasn't. Michael was a superstar off the court. Scotty wasn't. Scottie wasn't. Scottie was. just really good. And I think the documentary really is the ignition switch for years of an axe to grind and a feeling that, you know, I'm not viewed as I should be. When in fact, Scotty's viewed,

in my opinion, perfectly. Never ever could give him the number one role. In fact, Paul George, to me, is a more reliable one than, and he's viewed as wildly inconsistent, I would build around Paul George before I'd build around Scotty Pippin. Pippin went to Houston. He and Barclay couldn't stand each other. Scotty went to Portland. They didn't dial up plays for Scotty. I mean, Rashid Wallace would take the big shot.

Steve Smith would take the big shot. Arvita Sabonis would take the big shot. Scotty was never a guy you dialed up the big shot for. I said it the other day on television. That Laker Blazer series, a seven-gamer in the Western Conference finals, Scotty was three for ten in the game and O for three in the fourth. You don't dial up plays for Scotty Pippin.

That was never his role. So he writes a book all about vengeance, vindictiveness, and it's boomerang. Come right back in his face. And that's what it should do. If you do anything in your life out of vindictiveness, don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you in the ass. And that's what Scott he did. And that's the result.

Chauncey Billups, new coach of the Blazers and the dame situation, he's unhappy. Let me start with that because a couple of weeks ago I was on social media and I had tweeted something and actually Damien Lillard DM'd me. Yes, Damien Lillard. I had talked about this on the TV show and I think we've had enough time now. We're removed from it far enough. I can talk about it. I'm not going to get into too many specifics, but what we discussed was Damien Lillard and his options. So in nine seasons, he's the Batman. They have not delivered a Robin. And this is where I side with players. LeBron James gave Cleveland seven years. They couldn't get him a second all-star. C.J. McCollum is a very nice player, but how many years

have people been screaming? Their skills are often duplicated. Obviously, Dames better, and they have not moved him. So I don't have a ton of sympathy when in eight or nine free agency periods and eight or nine drafts, you can't find a really solid second star for Dame. And I'm not saying it's easy. Mark Cuban now has going to going to have to do that with Luca. He's going to have to find a Robin, or in five years, four years, Luca will bolt. But this is the world we're in. Dame, when he and I briefly text back and forth, loves Portland, loves the people. But it's the reality. He's going to be, what is he, 31 in July, drafted by Portland in 2012. He wanted Jason Kidd. They went to the same high school

in Alameda. Didn't get him. It's Chauncey Billups. Now, I don't know. necessarily think players should be hiring coaches, but the reality is dames, as big a star as Portland has had since, you know, Clyde Drexler. He's going to have some pull. I mean, if Luca wants a coach, then Jason Kidd or Chauncee Billups would be your head coach. The Lakers think they have a shot at him. That's sort of Los Angeles delusion. The Los Angeles Lakers have players, KCP's a solid player, hot and cold. It's not what Portland wants. Kyle Kuzma, LeBron doesn't get a lot. with him. They'd love to move him. He's kind of expensive. It's not the kind of contract you can't move, but it's not necessarily team friendly, considering he disappears often in big spots for the Lakers.

You know, Dennis Schroeder's a guy that Lakers will probably resign him, but he's a difficult, difficult player, I'm told. Doesn't get along with a lot of people can be very difficult to coach, and Frank Vogel's finding that out. You could move Anthony Davis, but he's represented by clutch sports. That's LeBron, so they're not going to move him. don't think the Lakers have the pieces. You know, Dame works almost everywhere, not named Golden State. They've got Steph. He works everywhere, not named Atlanta with Trey Young. So you're not going to have problems moving, Dame. But I get it. You're at a place eight, nine years. They can't deliver a second star. This is where we're at. It's happened before. I love Portland. But, you know,

it's never even hosted an NBA All-Star game. They don't have enough hotel rooms. It's a small city. You know, in baseball parlance, it's a great AAA town. And there's a reality here that maybe Jason Kidd could have chosen between Portland and Dallas and chose Dallas. It's in the middle of the country. You have fewer hours in the air, no state tax. A lot of players love Dallas. Some players love Portland. But listen, it may have come down to that. And Jason Kidd has options. More than one team wanted Jason Kidd. That's where we stand today. But my guess is, Dame would have to force his way out of Portland to leave Portland. He is simply, like Steph Curry, too popular for a GM to move.

Portland's GM would probably be better served. Portland's owner would be better served if Dame came out and said, I want out. That would make it easier to move him. They'd lose some leverage. But Dame is so talented, you'd get a lot of nice things in return. Portland would get a ton of nice things in return. All right, here's Sam Smith, Bulls.com. Trib for years. The Jordan Rules, a great book. I've read it twice, New York Times bestseller.

So it seems like about once a year, Sam, I call you, or my guys call you, I say, okay, I got to bring in Sam Smith. We got to talk about this because the bulls that you covered are more fascinating, certainly than the bulls today. And 90% of the league, they were, I always said, I said today, it's like the Rolling Stones. If you did a documentary on them, there'd be the Keith Richards didn't show up to the concert. you know, there would be the Mick Jagger Keith fights. There would be, it's just a fascinating team that you covered. And I covered Scotty for two years in Portland. And I always felt he had a little bit of an ax to grind, but didn't, he would talk to you privately about it.

And then Michael does the documentary. And he's like, okay, the gloves are off. I'm going to write a book. Here we go. So I think, Sam, my gut feeling is it's an ill-advised book that he would not have written. if there wasn't a documentary. Am I right or wrong on that? Yes and no.

When you're with him and you get to talk to him, you know, if you got to, you know, know, know, know, know him in Portland, you know, he's very personable. So you find you get along with him well. And then these outrages come along every so often.

And you're like, you're like amazed. Like, where did that come from? But, you know, One thing I wanted to say about Scotty, because I was around them from when he came into the NBA, his entire career. I never run across an athlete or, you know, actor, whatever, you make these great comparisons, who has such a resilient ability to come off the mat from things that nobody would survive. You know, not only eight seconds, which gets discussed. It was your favorite migrate, you know, in the 1990 finals,

you know, seventh game of the conference finals sitting there with a towel over his head. It puts sort of the ultimate of quitting and comes back and there's a star of a championship team the next year. So, yeah, and there's so many outrages where I remember one great story if you have time. We were in Boston on a trip and Scotty goes off on Jerry Krause. I hate him. just bashing them. And so, you know, this is a newspaper you read before, you know, media, you know, Twitter, all that sort of stuff. So we get to Chicago to the next morning and there's TV trucks all over, because the media didn't travel back then, the TV and radio. And there's trucks

all over the place and TV and Scotty walks in and Mr. Phil, what's, you know, what's all the TV here? What's, did something happen? And Phil goes, well, no, they're here to see you. He said, well, why? He said, well, what we said last night? He's got to go, what I say? You know, like, what was the big deal? And it's always been like that, that he says, he does these, you know, sort of like, you know, Mark Twain, you know, better to keep your mouth closed and let him think you're the fool than open it and, you know, show otherwise. And Scott, he does and then just keeps going on. So, you know, right in the book, like you said, yeah.

Maybe it'd be ill-advised in thinking, you know, here he comes again, but knowing Scotty Pippen, you know, he'll do it and then get up off the mat again. We've all had that dream. Tie game, bottom of the ninth base is loaded. Well, on Fandall Sportsbook, you get more than one shot to swing for the fences because Fandall is letting you place your first bet risk-free. That's right. New users get up to $1,000 back in sight credit if your first bet. doesn't win. And it only gets better from there. Check out Fandul's new promo live every Tuesday, $5 Dinger Tuesdays. Place a $25 wager or more on any player to hit a home run on Tuesday and get a

$5 bonus inside credit for every home run hit in the game. Max $25. Make your MLB picks for the Fandul Sportsbook app. Same game parlay is preferred. Any local player you would place a 25 plus home run wager on this Tuesday to opt in to the promotion? My pick, Shohei Otani. There's a reason Fanduals Sportsbook is America's number one sportsbook. The app is simple to use. Great odds, all different betting markets, unique fun, bet types like same game parlay, which is great. Their same game, parley is fantastic. Always on promotions to let you get more action out of every game. And when you win, Fandual pays your winnings in as little as 24 hours. They do. Just download the Fandual Sportsbook app, sign up, promo code

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A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

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and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

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Asian size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by NITSA and the Ad Council. Let's go back to the last dance. I have said that I think it was it was Michael Jordan's view, and this is all documentaries. They're not journalism. Whoever the Documentarian is, it's their view of an event or a time period. I think mostly MJ's last dance, I remember the moments. It did have a Michael lean to it. Were there things in it, the last dance that Sam, you just take exception to and go, okay, that's a bunch of bullshit.

All right, that didn't happen. Were there? Because a lot of it was public. We knew about Kraus MJ. We knew a lot. But Sam, were there things in the last dance that, Forget Pimpa that you took exception to. People have asked me about it, obviously.

You have. And what I say, I said, it's one of those TV movies that you see on, and they put up a disclaimer and say, based on a true story. So, yeah, the story essentially is true. But a lot of elements were, and it's sort of for drama, like with the pizza thing in the Utah hotel. Right. With the, actually, he didn't have the flu.

what he really had, and nobody had ever said it, you know, I knew, we knew the doctors. He had altitude sickness, but it didn't sound cool enough. Now, I don't know why he changed it to make up the pizza, poison pizza thing, you know, because he got out, he sort of escaped with the flu. Everybody bought that. It sounded good, but they were up in Park City and kept traveling back and forth into the valley, you know, for practice, back and forth, back and forth. and the doctors around the team felt what he had was altitude sickness,

but it didn't sound like something Michael Jordan would have. The biggest thing was, and it's been the history that the Bulls broke up the team, that they forced this. And Jordan in the documentary says they should have given us, actually, and I know this, Jordan has since apologized to the Bulls and said, well, maybe I shouldn't have said that. But what happened, there's a lot of stuff that happened, you know, between the Bulls did offer contracts to everybody.

Jordan would come back. And of course, they were getting, they were all free agents and were getting bigger offers. Scotty, particularly with Houston. And the Bulls accommodated that. Scotty's top deal was $38 million. They did a sign and trade to get him to 76. Now, of course, Houston regretted that because Scotty had back surgery again

after the 98th season. And that's when you saw him in Portland. He was no longer an athlete. That's why he couldn't do, you know, he was a facilitated completely. He couldn't make plays then like he could athletically with the Bulls. But what Jordan conveniently left out was during that lockout season in 97, 98, he cut his finger open on a cigar thing.

He had a surgery. So he wasn't going to be able to play that season. So this give us a chance to come back thing was like, what are you talking about? You couldn't play. So there was that. So there were a couple of things like that. But, you know, it's like, like I say, with a good movie, you know, a lot of time you're watching a good movie and you say, well, you think to yourself, that couldn't happen. But yeah, you want to let it go along because it's just a good drama.

And yeah, basically, we all knew that that story. That was the story. It was a chance for all of us to look back and appreciate it, you know, me included, because when you're going through it, you know, you didn't appreciate, not that I was there. but you probably didn't appreciate the Gettysburg Address as much as when you looked back on it. But at the time when he read those, you know, 20 minutes of words, you were thinking, all right, that's good, but I've heard better than that. You know, and then when you, you know, you think about it, say, hey, that's pretty cool. And so when it's every day and you're going to the next game and the next game and building the next story and can they, you know, you don't appreciate it as much. And so now, you know, 20, 30 years later to stand back and see it like we did.

So I wasn't going to quibble about some of the things that came up that, well, maybe not exactly. But, you know, for the story, it made a good story. Zach Levine, you watch him on a nightly basis. I don't. 27 a game yet has one of the lower winning percentages. I've said about Zach Levine, talents there doesn't feel like a winning basketball player, just a super talented basketball player. You tell me, you see him more than I do.

What's the story with him? Well, probably because I see him every game, you know, I'd be biased. But I think it's really unfair to judge a player as a failure to win because he hasn't won, which it would sound, you know, the circumstances of Zach. I mean, he came to a Minnesota team that was rebuilding, essentially, was starting over, you know, gets into his third year, wins, you know, done contests and all shows his athleticism. and then it gets traded to a team that again is starting over. So basically six of his first seven years, he was playing with teams trying to lose for draft picks. And so I don't know how you can necessarily,

I mean, you can, because we judge, we judge sort of in reverse. We say, well, let's see what happened, and then we'll tell you why it happened, rather than saying we think this will happen. We say, well, if he lost, he must be a loser. And I think he's a unique talent. Fortunately, this season, and at least you with the Bulls, has not been able to play with a Chris Paul.

I think Phoenix is the perfect example. Look at Devin Booker. Zach is way better than Devin Booker. He can do everything Devin Booker can and better. And he's bigger, and he's more athletic. And Devin Booker scored 70 or 80 points, but 70 points, whatever he got, and never was in a playoff game. And then what do you know? Chris Paul shows up and a guy who knows how to play,

This is the game, knows when it gets you the ball at the right spot. And you don't have to be carrying the ball over the place, making turnovers and things. You notice at the end of games, when Booker, when they give Booker to ball is a turnover, there's a bad isolation, is a bad shot. When Chris has the ball and he can score and get a position, that's what Zach needs. Yeah, he's not, you know, he's not Michael Jordan that you're going to give him the ball and he can finish every game without making mistakes. he's not a natural ball handler. He's good enough. You know, he's good enough to, you know, big ball screens or pick and roll and play

and make plays off the dribble, but not being as your primary guy against the defense. If the Bulls can get someone like that and it's hard to do, he can be what Devin Booker has become. Devin Booker was a loser. Now he's in the, you know, probably going to be in the finals or, you know, we'll see how a clip of serious goes. But, you know, Zach's, but he is a way better player than he's given credit for. And one thing is, it's like with Durand, too.

This is the most amazing recovery to be in the history of sports. He had the worst knee injury possible, ACL. I saw that happen with Derek Rose. And Derek, as good as he'd come back, is not the same physical player, doesn't go in the air like he did. Zach goes in the air like nobody in the AA. after an ACL, unheard of. Nobody's ever played like this after an ACL with that kind of athleticism on a, on a game-by-game basis.

I think he's just truly remarkable player about, you know, about to burst through. And hopefully he gets a chance, you know, he made the Olympic team. Let's get into it with Chris Mannix, my buddy. Mannix is a senior writer for Sports Illustrated. We hired him at the volume. His boxing podcast, Boxing with Chris Manix, drops every Friday. So let's bring him in. Damian Lillard, who about two weeks ago, DM me. I sent out a tweet regarding him. And he DM me and we went back and forth. And, you know, he was just, he was very cool about it. He was just sort of exploring his options. He loves Portland. He liked everything about Portland. But, you know, one of the things I kept saying is, hey, man, you go eight years at a place and they can't get you a second star. I never had. have a problem with anybody moving. I can do radio TV for 40 years. You got about 12 and then you

start falling apart. And I look at this situation and that C.J. McCollum is a nice player, but he duplicates much of what Dame does. And there have been people, myself included, saying for three years, get wing scoring. You've got to get better on the wing. I mean, especially now that LeBron at Kauai Leonard or West. And I don't feel a ton of pity for Portland. Like they've run this thing back like three, four. four or five years, Chris. And even though, I mean, so your first, your takeaway on that. And second, I think you can get a load for Dame.

I think a lot of guys want to play with him. Well, look, there's a couple things that I've been kind of feeling about this. One is, you know, if Damien Lillard wants to leave, he owes Portland nothing. Like he has given them everything he's had for what the last nine years. And, you know, their failures do not fall on his shoulders. Their failures fall on a lack of talent around him, inconsistent play around him, a myriad other reasons. And look, every passing day, that loss of the Nuggets just feels worse and worse. Like, that's a Nuggets team that had the doors blown off them by Phoenix.

And the Blazers lose in six games. So you can't really look at this Blazers team after that and say, right, well, the return of Zach Hollins is going to make all the difference with that group. It's just not. Now, like, I kind of take some issue, and again, I reiterate, like, Dame has the right to kind of push his way out, but how it's kind of being handled, it reminds me almost like a guy breaking up with a girl for the first time. Like, he doesn't know how to do it. Like, he's sort of doing it in this, this, this sort of ham-handed way where, you know, it's, he's speaking to Chris Haynes about I want Jason kid when he's never kind of done stuff like that gone public about, you know, personnel, coach, whatever in the past.

You know, Haynes recently wrote, you know, Haynes and obviously and Dana have a great relationship. This is, yeah, to me, anyway, it feels like it's all coming from him. Like, and it's, it's like, you know, taking issue with some of the stuff people are saying about him on social media. Well, I mean, who cares what people on Instagram and Twitter say about you? I mean, you can't let that represent the fan base at large. It just feels like Dame kind of sees what we see, Colin, that it's kind of over in Portland. And he's in his early 30s and he could stay there.

He's under contract through 2025, make a lot of money, you know, cement himself as the greatest blazer of all time, or he can move on and try to work with the Blazers to finding a trade partner. Now, I happen to think that's the best thing for both sides. Like, I understand the guy's incredibly popular and sells tickets and makes you. relevant in a national way, but is it really worth like three more years of first or at best second round playoff exits? Like we don't look at this Blazers team and say even with them a column deal that would put them above Utah or Phoenix or the Lakers or the Clippers.

Teams are going to be there for the next four years, not to mention the teams behind them that are coming up very quickly. Is it really worth all that? Like Portland, I think you're right, could get a haul for Damien Lillard. I mean, you deal with the right team. And all it takes is one. and ask Sam Presti that. All it takes is one team to go crazy and you get a haul and a half back for them.

You know, you can start to rebuild this franchise in the way you have to do it. I mean, I just, I just, I think, I think both these sides kind of know what has to happen, but neither one seems to know how to do it at this point. They seem to, they seem to be very confused as to how to make this split actually happen. And hopefully they can get on the same page in the next couple of months and, and everybody can win with the results. You know, it's funny. A lot of people on the, you know, the internet are making the Lakers look like a viable option.

And, you know, there's two things that jump out to me and I've said this. I don't think they have anything to give unless they wanted to move off Anthony Davis. And because of clutch sports, they won't do that yet. Nobody wants nothing against KCP, nothing against, you know, Dennis Schrooter is very difficult. I've heard he's been difficult to coach. Cusma, LeBron and Cusma don't even, their body language is horrible. LeBron likes Caruso, but it feels like he could bail on anybody else. So I don't think they have a lot of pieces.

But I, the one thing that is interesting when you look at Portland, Dame's a good guy, he could work everywhere. Most of the teams that have, the assets are Western teams. And I'm sorry, I'm going to have a hard time, Damon, come back to burn me. Is there an Eastern team? I mean, obviously, Portland ideally would like to move him out, you know, of the time zone. Is there a team that works for you? When it comes to Lillard, I mean, you could deal with Philadelphia and talk to Ben Simmons. because if you're making a deal like this,

you can't do it for like a Bradley Beal-centered package or something like that. You have to, if you're going to get another superstar back, it's got to be a superstar under contract for the foreseeable future. And Ben Simmons, despite his warts, is still a perennial all-star who is under contract as long as the name is through 2025.

That to me is the only Eastern Conference team that makes, well, I mean, you know, what, as I think about it now with the Eastern Congress, like Boston could could find a way to get there. Like, you know, would you rather have Jalen Brown or Ben Simmons, like as a centerpiece of a deal? Well, Jalen Brown, Jalen Brown is much more coachable. Yeah. He is, he'll give you a healing, I think. Well, he also, he plays defense. I mean, Ben plays great defense can't shoot. Jalen's really molded himself into a nice 22 point a game. What he averaged this year, 24? He was right around, he was in the 20s. And one thing I mean, living in Boston, I've covered him a lot. Like, you know, he's,

he improves every single year. Like this was his best year. And he just, the way this guy works, I can easily see him becoming 25, 26 points per game, 40% three point shooter. That's not nothing. Like that's a real asset who at 24 years old under contract, which is manageable by the way,

for I think at least the next three years, you could build around him. Boston, as we've noted many times in the past, protect his draft picks like they're their kids. You know, so they've got all their assets there at their disposal, some decent young players, not great, but decent young players, you can throw on that mix. There's somebody I think that could make a run at Damien Lillard.

I fundamentally believe that Hardin and Kevin Durant work great together and it could win a championship with a good bench. I think what the sons have been able to do because of Cameron Payne is play Chris 31 minutes. And it's a really healthy, energized Chris Paul at the end of games. You know, you're getting into a situation when you have. have no bench and the warriors ran into this. You know, you're just playing your starters 40 plus minutes in these grueling series. And I think Harden Durant and a steady, strong bench where Kevin can play 33, Harden 34, that's a championship team to me, especially coming out of the east. And I got to tell you, when I saw the Kyrie Irving trade rumor or talk, I thought, that's the guy

that worries me. He's erratic. He's erratic physically. He can be erratic emotionally. You know, I always joke, if any of your friend said the earth is flat, you'd be just done calling them. I know it was a joke, but there's part of me that thinks it's sort of Kyrie. He's kind of out there. And I don't know, there's always a taker for somebody of his skill level, but I did kind of buy into it. Part of that, I read that and I thought, God, we saw Hardin really grew this year. His distribution was terrific. I thought he was really, I mean, I was always, you know, I knew he was a great offensive player, Chris, but I always kind of, I thought he was too ball-centric. He looked worn down in the playoffs, hard to play with, didn't give you much of an effort on the

defensive end. And then I watched this year and I'm like, no, I'm in. I like him. I think the Kyrie Irving rumors, I think there's got to be something to it. It does make a little sense, right? Well, regardless of it makes sense, it is absolutely not going to happen. Like, for But the first thing I thought of when I saw those rumors pop was the... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. The incredibly uncomfortable conversation, Sean Mark's going to have to have with Kyrie,

because every GM, like, I've had these phone calls with GMs after I've written something about, you know, a trade talk that was taking place. Like, dude, now I got to call this guy and tell him we're not doing it. And say, like, like, we still love you. There's just media being media. Don't worry about it. Put it out of your mind. So I would imagine Sean Marks had to have that conversation with Kyrie Irving.

Even if you believe that, like you're saying, that Kyrie, a package that you get back for Kyrie makes you a better team overall, nobody's going to require Kyrie Irving. Like, unless Kyrie comes out and says, I want to be a team X, nobody's going to trade for. We saw what happens in those situations when Kyrie is unhappy. It's called the Boston Celtics of 2018-19. Nobody's bringing that guy in if he doesn't want to be there because he's going to let it be known that he doesn't want to be there. It's going to bleed out one way or the other.

And if you're trying to build something, you can't, I don't think you can bring in a player that's not all in on your particular situation. I just, to me, it's highly improbable that something like that could ever come to fruition for that reason. that's amazing that a top five finisher in the league is so toxic he's untradable i don't even remember anything i mean because i mean again we don't have there there's nothing there's no crime committed it's just i mean you know i mean chri's flaky he's a little too erratic for me

i could never build around him but that's amazing so your your takeaway is he is just off limits nobody because i look at miami and i think they need size. Could they go bam out of bayou? They're done with Tyler Hero, put them off the bench for Karee. Like I think, oh, that works. And you're, to use zero chance. You would have to, it have to be a discussion with Kairi Irving. But if it's, if it's a Miami, you'd have to go to him and say, look, Miami's made as an offer. We think it makes our team better. But do you want to go there? Like, do you want to play there? Because Miami's, believe it. My God, Miami would have zero tolerance for any Kari antics. Like that's a zero tolerance of team as they get.

you'd have to be in consultation with Kyrie Irving. And I can't think of too many teams that he would want to go to at this point. He signed with Brooklyn because of it's near his hometown. And he wants to play with Kevin Durant. Like they remain very close friends. So I just, I just can't envision a scenario where the Nets just seek something like, get the other team to make a deal, which is, I think, more difficult to come together. and just unilaterally deal Kyrie.

Colin, you've covered him. Kyrie would strike me as the kind of guy. I'd be like, you know what? I retire. Like, that's what he got to, he might. Like, it might be like, I'm done. I don't need basketball.

I'm going to go, you know, do whatever it is I do when I disappear off the map, you know, go travel the world and do stuff like that. That's the kind of guy he might, he might turn out being at that point. So it's just, to me, there are too many issues to unravel before you could do a deal like that. Learning to ski, keep in mind these helpful tips.

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Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. His name is Michael Kay, longtime play-by-play voice of the Yankees on the Yes Network. talk show host ESPN New York Radio in the highly competitive and volatile afternoon slot and host of the Emmy winning Center Stage, also on the Yes Network. He's got a book called Center Stage, my most fascinating interviews from Arod to Jay-Z. So I grew up in the West Coast, Michael, and the West Coast, for whatever reasons, is not as combative. It's not Philadelphia. It's not New York. You do talk radio, you make a nice living, and you go on with your day. And so And then I go to ESPN and I turn it on.

And it's host firing at each other. There's a rancor. There's an angst to it. And in that, you have stayed sort of above ground as kind of a more likable, relatable family guy. Are there times you think, what the fuck is wrong with this business? What is going on? It's, it's so weird, Colin, because when my show was battling Mike Francesa, it was covered in the newspapers and the tabloids like it was a beat. I mean, there was a guy who covered

that. I mean, the ratings, the weeklies. Imagine the weeklies covered. And there was a lot of pressure. So you finally like vanquish the king and you feel like, well, that's over now. And now they bring in somebody else, Craig Carton, who's a very talented guy and the war start all over again. And the thing that makes it difficult and you work for ESPN. I mean, it's owned by Disney. And I also work for the Yankees. And there's a certain decorum you have to have where you can't really get that down in the gutter when your competition is able to. Now, I still have confidence that will ultimately prevail, but, you know, your hands are tied a little bit. No, when I came over to Fox, they told me in their pitch.

They said, you're not an ESPN guy. You're a Fox guy. They're like, you're not, they're like, it's not that you work at ESPN, but you're more of a Fox guy. You feel more West Coast, a little loose, a little bit of a loose cannon. And I didn't take that as, you know, that wasn't a criticism. I was like, I can do both, whatever. It doesn't. It's interesting.

I'll say this. And one of the reasons I started this podcast company, because I said it's a more authentic version of me. I could just talk to you like this at a bar at your house, my house, whatever. My takeaway in Francesa was always, it's almost a Trumpian thing, where if you listen to my show and you've listened to it enough to know that some of it's tongue and cheek, a big portion of it. You know, it's theatrical.

I'm over the time. top sometimes. Now, that doesn't mean I'm not serious, Michael, and I'll do a probing interview, but my show is a lot of, you know, it's fun, it's light. Francesa has this Trumpian quality where he thinks, and it's very odd, that everything he talks about from presidential debates to Medicare should be taken as fact. And at first, I thought it was a bit. Ten years ago, I thought this is a bit. And like the Al-Alabukerky moment. And I'm like, it's not a bit. It, he's a very, I don't know him. I've met him once.

He's a very, a Trumpian is the word I use because Trump just bullshets people constantly and pretends he's an expert and really knows very little. Did you, was the rancor and the animosity with Franceser real between you two? Toward the end it was because I think as we crept closer, because he was there for 30 years and he was on top. And, you know, the thing that angered me is he talked down about us. and he would call us the peace shooter. And you know, ESPN in New York.

I mean, ESPN is such a monolith. The radio wasn't that ultra important. They care, but it's not an FAN, it's FAN, and that's all they do. And then he started talking down to us. And then when the Yes Network dropped him on the simulcast and put me on, he said the only reason I did that is they could control me. And then you're talking about my ethics and morals, and that really angered me.

and there was a real animosity there. It got nasty. And when we finally beat him, I mean, I got to tell you, I've had a lot of good feelings in my life, some off the radio, some off TV. That's up there. I mean, I felt great. Well, you should. Craig Carton's another guy I only met twice. I'll tell you a Craig Carton story.

Please. And it's funny. So about five or six years ago before he had his really rough situation, right, a really, really important. executive had asked me, what do you think of Craig Carton? They were, they were thinking of a TV show, a TV radio show. And again, I'm not real intuitive on stuff like this. I said, I think he'd be a blast to hang out with. I think he's probably got a big heart. But I don't know if I'd ever trust Craig Carton. And about a year and a half later, his life unraveled. I think he's, I really, I like Craig's talent. I think he's sort of.

of a chem trail of narcissism. And, you know, he, you know how everybody has a side hustle? I think his life sometimes feels like a side hustle. But I do think he has a heart of gold. I think he can do really wonderful things. And I think he does deep down have remorse. What do you make of him? Because I don't think there's ever been a radio personality like him, maybe in the country.

I think, Colin, that he is tremendously talented. I mean, he really knows how to push buttons as a radio. He knows that to agitate, instigate, and that's all pretty good when you're taking phone calls and trying to keep an audience. I think that he will say anything to get ratings, and I believe that he has remorse about what happened. And we had him on the air. When he got fired from FAN and everything came crumbling down, we had him on for an hour on an interview. And I thought he was very forthright and humble and all that. And then he called me up and said, would you like to?

I'd like to have lunch with you before I go, you know, away. So we had about an hour and a half lunch, and I think he's, you know, as you said, he's great guy to hang with. He's really funny. He's very clever. He's very bright. And now I don't listen to a show because I run up against him. People tell me, well, he says the worst things about you.

Oh, he can't feel like that about me because I've never given him a reason. I never, I never go at him on the air, never refer to him on the air. But he does say things about me. And to me, that's a part of the fight that I don't like. I'm not going to get down in the dirt. Not at my age. I've been around it too long. And I do work for like two Tiffany brands that would probably frown on it anyway.

But Craig is a very aggressive guy on the air. And that's who he is. Yeah. And a very aggressive guy in real life as well. The only time I've ever done an interview that I recall that I couldn't air was Lawrence Taylor. I thought he was on something. I knew he was on something. I just couldn't air it.

I don't do many pre-taped interviews. I did one. And I just turned to my staff and I'm like, that can't go on the air. You had a similar feel with Mike Tyson. Tyson was two hours late. And when you're running a television show, time is money. They're cameramen. There's a lot of staff.

You're renting out studios and things like that. Showed up two hours late and showed up with two buddies. Then they were paired into his dressing room. And they were there for about an hour. And from underneath the door, you smelled skunk pot. So they were getting high. And then he comes out and he was feeling it. You could tell.

You can see his eyes. But, you know, time is money. Let's do the interview. Colin, I'll tell you what. He sat there. And for over an hour, he either started weeping, laughing uproariously, happy, sad. I thought he was going to hit me at one point.

Everybody in the audience was sitting on the edge of their seat. Sitting on the edge of their seat, it was so raw and so visceral. And I found this out only three weeks ago. It's not in the book because I found it out three weeks ago. So the show ends and you leave the show and you go, wow, that was something because he let it all out. The show airs on yes and a guy who's watching the show by the name of Spike Lee. He watches the entire show, picks up the phone, calls up Tyson and goes, that's a one-man Broadway show, what you just did.

And that was the start of Tyson on Broadway. That's crazy. Isn't that unbelievable? And, you know, my complaint to spike, how about a little something for the effort? I wasn't in it. You know, interviewing is funny. I had a rough one with Jim Harbaugh. Then I had to end it. Jim was just, Jim's on the spectrum a little and he was just not in the mood.

And I could be on the spectrum a little and I could sense it was just going nowhere and I ended it. Did you ever have to end it or stop production? God, if you didn't stop with Tyson, it doesn't sound like anything would stop it. But was there ever a moment you thought, Jesus, this is awful? The worst, we've got 240 interviews in 20 years and there's 35 in the book. And the worst one ever was Dennis Quaid, the actor. So he was promoting the movie The Rookie. You remember the teacher who became a pitcher for the Tampa Bay, Jim Moore? Yeah.

So he shows up at the studio. And I guess he thought it was like a Regis and Kelly thing where eight minutes and he's out. And he's told it's an hour. And he's chapped, which I don't understand how his people, his handlers, wouldn't have told them that. So he sits down on the chair. the chair and he's not ready to play. And I'm asking him questions. So it's an eight segment show and this is the first two segments. Every answer, Colin is yes, no, yes, no. Oh, God. So after the

second segment, we go to commercial and I lean over and said, hey, listen, the show's an hour. You can't speed it up. I got thousands of questions. You're going to look bad. I'm not. It's up to you how you want this to go. And like he was stunned that somebody would talk to him like that. You know, he's a big star. And he picked it up a little bit. And because, again, time is money and we're a regional sports network. You can't just throw the interview away.

We ran it. But it was not our proudest moment. It was not his prodice moment. That was the toughest one. Of all the interviews we ever did, I'd say that was the only bad one that I'd say. And maybe I blame myself because I see him on the Tonight Show or on Kimmel. and Colbert, and he's a great guest. But maybe he's a great guest in eight-minute segments,

but for an hour, he wasn't ready to play. That wraps it up for the week. We're heading into another big week here at the volume. Make sure to subscribe and follow us at the volume sports on Twitter and Instagram. The volume. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your valent.

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Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast is. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and hosts Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have any with, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit are armored?

It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down. and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.