The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Carson Wentz on Colts Divorce, Mike Vrabel on AJ Brown Trade, Suns/CP3 Collapse with Ric Bucher

Episode Date: May 21, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, (3:00) Washington Commanders QB Carson Wentz  discusses reaction to Colts Owner Jim Irsay’s public criticism following the Week 18 loss to the lowly Jags, if Washington is his last chance prove himself as a franchise QB, and his first impressions of Washington star wideout Terry McLaurin. Then, (16:00) Titans Head Coach Mike Vrabel explains  Bill Belichick’s influence, when he gained Belichick’s trust, why he wasn’t concerned about Ryan Tannehill’s comments about  mentoring Malik Willis, what he likes about Willis (30:00), when Derrick Henry became truly dominant, and why it was so hard to lose AJ Brown. Finally, (28:00) NBA Insider Ric Bucher reacts to CP3 and the Suns Game 7 implosion against the Mavs, if they need to make significant offseason moves, if Golden State can be more effective guarding Luka, and if Giannis will win another title. Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two.

Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. The Volume. Colin Coward Podcasts presented by Fandual Sportsbook.

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Wilson Wentz on getting traded from the Colts, some newsmaking comments. Titans head coach Mike Vrable opens up about the AJ Brown trade that broke his heart, very personal. And Rick Buecker, we discussed the rough ending for the Sons and why they had it coming. Are you ever surprised how much you're discussed in the NFL? Honestly, I'm not really aware, usually. which is for me a great way to live, a great way to be. I usually find out about things that are going on

because people will reach out and say, hey, you're doing okay or hey, such and such said this or this. And I'm like, I really didn't want to know that. But, yeah, it kind of makes me laugh. It kind of is what it is. You know, I think I do with the best I can

in every situation that is put in front of me and try to make the most of it and enjoy the time. But yeah, it kind of makes me laugh a little bit sometimes the things that I hear and the things people send me. Well, you know, it's interesting because a lot of criticism, I get criticism. We're public figures. I don't care. The only stuff that would bother me would be personal stuff, right? And sometimes I think people have been too personal with you.

And I've said that I've defended you a lot in the air where I'm like, I don't know, big, strong athletic. I like him. But, you know, like when Jim Ursay says, hey, we made a mistake, I'm like, ow, ow, that's kind of pert. That hurts a little, right? I mean, it is what it is. You know, everyone's entitled their own opinion. You know, I thought last year was a really fun year. You know, I thought we did some incredible things.

Came up short at the end. Obviously, I struggled down the stretch there and timing was poor. But, yeah, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect that things unfold the way they did. And, you know, I thought things were in a pretty good place there. had awesome relationships with every single person in that building. Can't say enough good things about the people over there. And, yeah, kind of came out of left field.

You know, he's entitled to his own opinion. And, you know, he's entitled to do what he wants with his football team. You know, the NFL's tough. As you know, you played for a dominant college program. And in college, you line up a lot of times if you're at a top program. And you know on Saturday, like, you'd have to really screw up. In the NFL, the jets beat the Colts. or the Jets, excuse me, the Jets beat the Titans,

who were the number one seat in the AFC. People don't want to talk about that, but they want to talk about the Jags beating the Colts, but the Jets for, and if you watch that game, you're like, what is going on here? So did you think at one point, it's, by the way, the Colts have struggled with the Jags and Jackson Bill for the last half decade.

When people freaked out, Carson was a part of you thinking, hey, time out, you can Google, you can Google how we've been, done down here. Like, I'm not the only guy that's struggling, right? Yeah, I mean, honestly, it was just a real tough ending, you know, honestly. And then once rumors and reports are going around, I'm like, you know, talking to my agent out of these things real, what's going on. Like, honestly, it was, uh, kind of came out of left field. And, you know, you kind of just try not to think too much of it, you know, rumors and reports

are a big part of this business we're in. So you never know what's true and what's not. So try to not stress about it too much. But, yeah, it was a very unfortunate ending to the season. You know, not a good time to play poorly the way I did. And as a team, we struggled. But yeah, that's what's crazy about the league is, as you just said, anybody can beat anybody anytime step on that field. And, I mean, we had our work cut out for us the first time we played the Jaggs at home.

You know, we squeaked it out in the end. And it's always a good team. That was a good defense last year. And they made our lives tough. they got us on that day. Carson, I've said this before about your style, but you remind me of a more talented Sam Darnold in that you're a physical player. And so, and you're a risk taker.

And I like my quarterback's to take risks. And I've said, you can coach players in and out of a lot. But if a guy is a risk taker, and it's sometimes, you know, risk taking reckless are really close. You know, they say love and hate are in the same envelope, right? I don't know. like I look at you and I think, this is who he is. So if you're not comfortable with his risks, then don't acquire him.

Like when you're making plays, do you have a off switch? Like, okay, turn the governor down here. This isn't going to work. Or you're just in the moment. You're going to do what you're going to do. And that's your style. Yeah. I mean, it's a fine line.

And it's one I've wrestled with since the moment I walked into that door in Philly. You know, shoot, that's how I played in college. You know, I try not to get in my head or, over sync thing. So I just, you know, with what I see, whatever's there, I let it rip. I pull the trigger. You know, there's times like plenty of times. I come in and watch film either that night or Monday morning. I'm like, shoot, that was dumb. And you get away with it. You get away with it plenty, you know, and you try and just, you know, let the positives outweigh, the negatives. And hopefully you look up at the end of the day and say, you know, there's some big plays to be made

here. So you never want to miss those. Never want to miss the ability to extend a play and find a guy open downfield or really changed the momentum of a game. but at the same time, you got to be smart. You got to be smart and try and limit those mistakes. And I think, you know, I've gone up and down in my six-year career on that front. And I've got to continue to learn, okay, when to say die, when to eat it, and when those plays are there to be made to be aggressive. Well, it's funny because when Jim, or say, freaked out, and that engineered all of it.

Listen, everybody else in this league flips burgers as a GM once told me, the owners make all the decisions, right? You had 27 TD, seven picks through for over 4,000 yards. 3,500 yards and had a 95 quarterback rating. That is a borderline Pro Bowl season. So then, you know, the fit hits the Shan in Indianapolis and everybody's going crazy. So there's three kind of quarterbacks in the NFL, franchise, backups, and bridges. And Troy Aikman said something, and I thought it was fair.

Troy said the other day, he said, I think this is his last shot to be in the franchise. guys. He's got the size, the arm, the talent. Do you view it as like, hey, man, this is it? Like, I got to get it done. I can't go to bridge. I'm not a backup. Do you feel like this is it? Yeah, I mean, I understand it from the outside world, you know, and I understand it from from everyone's perspective that they can call it that, call it that. But for me, it's, you know, I try to not put that much pressure on myself. You know, I'm extremely confident in what I can do and what I can bring to a team and how I can help elevate those around me. And so call it what you want.

Call me what you want. At the end of the day, I don't really care. I'm going to go out and hopefully play well and get my team in a position to win and win a lot of games. You have, I think, one of the better receivers in the league, Terry McLaurin, and I watched him at college at Ohio State. He's one of those guys that's almost a better pro than a college receiver. Have you worked with him, talk with him? What do you know about him?

Yeah, talk with him quite a bit. you know, been around him already into facility a handful of times and worked with him. Great dude. You know, I mean, everybody in that facility just raves about who he is as a guy and how he prepares and his work ethic and all of those things and kind of leadership that he brings to that kind of young receiving room. But he can play. He can play.

I remember his rookie year when we came here. I think he took like a slant and went like 80 on us. And I was on the other sideline. I think after the game, I said, boy, I'd love to throw you the ball. Never would have imagined it unfold like this just a couple of years later. But it's kind of funny to look back on kind of that moment and that game. And now obviously put on the tape and see what he's been doing in the last couple of years. It's pretty remarkable.

So I think we'll have some fun together. The playoffs are here. You can make every game feel like game seven on Fandall's Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Fandul's hooking you up free bets through the playoffs. Free bets. Doesn't matter if you're a new customer or already have an account. Be sure to check out the app. Exclusive weekly same game parlay promos.

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Visit 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got? Got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Mike, what's interesting, I told the staff today, I said, why does it feel like Mike Vrable's been coaching for 20 years? I can't remember the coaching with the Titans before you. And it's because, you know, the Ohio State. And then you were an assistant.

And, you know, you're one of these guys that is a very young, older guy. You've been in the public consciousness forever. So you've only been there from 2018. If I said to you. 25 years, you know, National Football League and Ohio State 25 years, I think that's where I get my mind going. If I said today, you coach against rookie head coach Mike Frable, where would today's coach work you on your first day coaching as a head coach in the league? Where have you really made a jump, in your opinion?

I think this, the comfort level of knowing that there's going to be so much uncertainty and you're not going to be able to control everything and you're going to have to just not worry about distractions and trying to avoid them. It's just how do we handle them? things are inevitable. I told, I scripted the rookie minicamp. I said, we're going to fumble three snaps, going to throw an interception.

Lignment are going to run into each other because one's going to go to the right and the other one's going to go to the left. You guys are going to run into each other. And all these things happened and they came back laughing after the first practice. I said, I feel like I kind of can script these practices. I know just to how they're going to go. You know, Mike, it's, you know, some of Belichick's assistants haven't done well. You weren't a classic assistant.

You went to college route. and then came around. So when I've talked to some of the former Belichick assistants, Bill has such a presence and he's such an intellect that it's, you know, when you're in his presence, you feel like he's a little bit of a guru. I mean, you're, you're trying to soak in all of it. And a lot of coaches have said, you do a really bad impersonation of Belichick instead of being yourself.

And with you, you have such a strong presence. I don't think you fell into that. I think you're really, when I look at you, Mike Frable is Mike Frable. You're not, you're not going to be anybody else. And I, you know, your wife was a college athlete. You're a former pro football player for 14 years. Do you think because you had such a defined personality and presence, you have, you soaked up some stuff from Belichick, but there's no imitating.

I mean, absolutely soaked up a lot. But I think that my experience there was, was as a player with other great players. I mean, I've learned I've really tried to take a lot from whether it be Teddy Bruske, William McGinnis, Rodney Harrison, experiences with Tom or any of the offensive players, the coaches, Romeo Cornell that I had in the NFL and then try to mold that, whether it be working for Bill O'Brien or even working for Urban and Ohio State, the conversations with Luke Thickle, Marcus Freeman. I've tried to take all these different things and just say, be me, be myself.

and react to how I would react, but these are things that these guys are really good at. How can I use them to help me or help this team? You have to be really organized, right? Like every great coach I've known is organized. Were you an organized player? I don't. I mean, is whatsoever behind me if that's organized on the screen.

Back here, I just make my notes back there because I'm not much of a computer. I kind of just stay organized up here. Do you, if I, if you, I'll give you a coach and you just tell me, a sentence, what you glean from that coach. If I say to you, Bill O'Brien, you were under. Bill O'Brien, what did you take from him? Authenticity.

I remember him saying, the beauty of coaching is believe in something, have a philosophy, get the players to believe in it. And there's going to be a million different ways, but you have to believe in it and you have to do it your way. Urban Meyer. Teaching. Urban was, it was, it was, it was, man. that you be a great teacher with these college players and also the connection.

You know, I realize in college the connection that you have to have between a player, you get there and they're 17, 18 years old and, you know, they're spending a lot of time within. You're a father figure for most of those guys. Belichick. Just being prepared, being prepared for different situations. Also being flexible and understanding that things are going to change, things are going to constantly come up and you have to be willing to, to, change and adapt.

See, now that surprises me. I look at Belichick and I think he's so prepared, he wouldn't have that dexterity or that ability to pivot in games. Go back to your playing career with Bill. I mean, were there times, Mike, that you'd come to the sideline and Bill would say, screw it. We're just going to, things have changed. You know, I think that this has probably been out and probably been said.

But, you know, people would say, hey, we're going to make some half-time adjustments. And Bill would say, well, if we're waiting until half-time adjustments, and Bill would say, well, if we're wait until halftime, but it's probably going to be too late. Like, we better be making adjustments by the second or third series. Like, the game plan is already shown its hand. It's what they've practiced all week. You know, pretty much that's what it's going to be the rest of the game. When did you gain his trust?

When did Bill let you call things? I mean, I went in there. And again, this is such a unique situation. I didn't start a game for four years. Had a conversation with him in a free agency. and he had referenced plays that I had made in a preseason game. He's like, you remember that preseason game against Miami? He's like, that's what we're looking for.

That's what we expect. And I went up there with just a desire to try to be right and be perfect, which you can't be. You can't try to play like that. And I think it was just something where as things started to go on, the first or second year, playing different positions. I think he realized that. I think he valued that.

the versatility, the willingness to play special teams and really do whatever. Once you show them that, once you show any coach that, whether it's Bill Belichick or anybody, once you show them their willingness to do whatever you can to help the team win, you know, that's how you're in trust. So I defended Ryan Tannahill when he, you know, he made kind of an average. He talked for a while and he made a small comment. And I said, give me a break. He's 34.

He just lost a huge playoff game. He got replaced, you know, they kind of bailed on him. in Miami. He's fighting for his career. Give the guy a break. Like at the end of my career, if they could draft a talk show host, I'll be fighting like mad too. Were you surprised the blowback he got for a fairly innocuous comment on Malik Willis? There's not a whole lot going on in the NFL right now. So anything that gets said, you know, people are going to jump all over. I've touched on this. I know the type of teammate Ryan is. And all I'm like, can tell you is the first couple days have been been really cool having three great

quarterbacks on our roster watching them help Malik at practice. He's invited the rookies over already. They've already been in his house. They've had dinner. It's going to be a good dynamic. I said I thought Malik was my favorite quarterback in the draft just because I thought his upside was huge. And there was intangibles about him.

I thought he was great at the podium, which I don't know if it matters to a coach. but I was like, Jesus, that kid's good. Like, he knows how to answer stuff. And it felt really authentic. I didn't feel he was BS and me at the podium. Were there intangibles, not just to play? Were there things like that you looked at as a former player and thought, okay, that you can bring that guy in our room?

Like, did that sell you at all? I mean, I think that you love the play strength when you're talking about on the field, really like his demeanor, you know, already just with these rookies and handling the huddle. And it's a lot. I mean, the first couple of days is a lot. I mean, we're throwing plays at them. We're formations and motions and cadence. I mean, it's a lot.

And then coming under center with, you know, it's no fault to him. They play in the shotgun. That's right. So we'll teach him how to go under center and run our offense. And when we're in the gun and we're doing those things. And every day he's gotten better. You know, since last Friday, he's gotten better each and every day. So it's just fun to coach.

I didn't think Derek Henry was going to be a great pro. Obviously wrong. He had an interesting career. He got drafted and he didn't, I mean, he was kind of a rotational guy for a while. And then something popped, Mike. Take me back to his emergence from like sharing carries to being unstoppable. Well, I think it got to be a decisiveness. You know what I mean? It's like when we were putting our scheme in, it was, you know, where do I fit? Where do I run? And, you know, I think finally just trust in the scheme, trust in the landmark, not trying to read too much. I think sometimes you get in trouble in any position that you try to see too much, you're trying to do too much.

And so I think he narrowed his focus. I think that he continued to work on a stiff arm in his second level. To me, that's the biggest thing is we've got to just continue to find ways to get him to the second level and hope that magic happens and it usually does. Who was the hardest running back you tackled? Adrian Peterson. Well, I mean, he was certainly there because I was older in my career. Jerome Bettis was alone when I got to know it.

We played him. You know, I mean, Ladanian Tom, young Lendan Tamlinson, those guys, those are hard guys, priest homes, Ricky Williams, you know what I mean? There's just no shortage of good backs. There's housing bubbles. There's tech bubbles. There are stock market bubbles. And during the last six months, I've been joking on the air, like we're in a wide receiver bubble.

Tyreek Hill goes for five picks. I remember when I was on the air and I'm like, the hell is that. Five picks. Randy Moss went for like a fourth to New England. And, you know, A.J. Brown, he's on the market. There's picks, stuff going on. Part of me is just Mike thinks, okay, I like, I like my receivers, but, God, you got to win the line of scrimmage. Did you look at this off season a little bit?

all these moves at wide receiver and think, we've kind of lost our way on the value of it, or do you think the world's changing in this league? No, I mean, I don't know. I know that every situation is different, and I know that everybody gets the same amount to spend. And, you know, you have to make decisions. You have to make tough decisions.

And so I don't know. I don't know where the receiver market's going to end up. I mean, I know the good players deserve to be compensated. And that's the nature of professional sports. But you also have to work within a salary cap and you have to try to find a way to continue to do what's best for the entire team. And so I don't know. I don't know where the market's going.

I know that, you know, the salary cap is going to continue to go up specifically about AJ. You know, I think everybody knows my relationship with AJ and, you know, how much that meant to me. And I hope him and we've had conversations. you know, since he's been traded. It just, it makes you sick, right? Like he's, yeah. I mean, you just, you have a personal side of this thing. When you try to do it like we try to do it and make a connection and, you know,

care about these guys off the field and making sure that they're, they're healthy, you know, mentally and physically, yeah, there's a business side to it too. And that's what everybody, you know, you have to understand that. And I, and if you put a lot into something and, you know, you got. Guys move on. You have to make cuts. You release guys. So that's the hard part of it. But I don't want to, I'm not going to change the way that we coach. I don't want our coaches or myself or anybody here to change the connections that we try to make to teach them. Without further ado, I'm going to bring in Rick Buecker.

I don't even know what to make a Phoenix. They look tight. Chris Paul and effective. What do you even make of what you saw? Well, I believe this game was lost two games ago. I honestly believe that when Devin Booker and Chris Paul, it was a little bit like the LeBron James, Dwayne Wade mocking Dirk Novitsky. They were, everything was rolling for Phoenix, and they were going at Dirk one-on-one, and they were laughing at him. This is Luca Dotsich, who was a European MVP, who has played in front of him. crowds, with fireworks going off in the stands, with people taking their lighters and heating coins and then throwing them at you while you're playing with an absolute mushroom cloud of cigarette smoke covering over the arena.

And crowds where I've experienced it, like, you start finding anything to put in your ears, like paper or anything to try to dull the noise. So you take that, his experience that, there's no, there's no situation that's going to phase Luca Dantzich. And then you basically clown him. You're asking for it. And you're asking for it from a Luca Dantzich with a Jason kid who is also of the same mentality.

If you insult him, he's going to find a way to make you pay. And he did with Luca basically by saying, okay. Okay, Luca, you know what? Every opportunity you get, we're having you go at Chris Paul. We're going to have you go at Devin Booker, but you're going to have to bring us something to the defense event. They clowns you because they were going at you one-on-one up 20, 25. Right. You've got to give me something the entire way.

And Luca responded. The Dallas Mavericks collectively responded. And the Phoenix Suns, basically were the bully. And they got punched back. And they didn't know what to do with it. I still can't get over the lack of offense. I mean, Booker, you know, it's interesting with Devin. I like him a lot.

He doesn't create a shot really very well. I mean, Devin needs a screen. Devin needs help. You know, people make these comparisons. Luca doesn't. Luca doesn't need help. He doesn't need any. John Morant doesn't need help.

Steph Curry doesn't need help. Booker's not super twitchy quick. he needs something and it was really apparent in the first half in game seven. Devon just couldn't even get good looks, a fallaway. It was, I mean, he was smiled as I said that, but he doesn't really create his own shot. He's a great shooter. I don't know that he's a, well, I don't want to say he's not a great score, but what they did is they made him play in a crowd where he had to make decisions. And ideally what he would have done is drawn that crowd and created for others.

He doesn't have that at all. So, and he's and it was uncomfortable for him. I mean, you can literally see he was, he started thinking. And as soon as he's thinking, game over. Chris Paul is the one that if you try to double him, he's going to kill you because he's, he can distribute. He can find, he can get other guys involved. I thought it was brilliant on Jason Kidd's part.

to say, we're going to make Devin Booker be a playmaker. We're not going to let him be a scorer. We're going to make him be a playmaker. And Devin doesn't have that in his game. I mean, face it, it's basically taking the sons back to what they were before Chris Paul showed up. Because Chris Paul is the one who became the orchestrator of everything. And for whatever reason, Chris Paul, you know, whether it's fatigue, whether it's age, whatever, he also, he just. But with Chris's age.

It feels like Phoenix is athletic, but they need another score. You can't bring this team back. It feels like they have to add a piece offensively. Do they have to move somebody? Yeah, I don't want to overreact because I also believe that this was just a really bad matchup for them. Luke, like they don't have like this next series with Memphis, I mean, excuse me, with Warriors in Dallas, is going to be really interesting. because Draymond Green is the kind of defender you want to put on Luca Donchage. Right.

You can play a bigger guy. He's clever. He knows how to play angles. I'll be very interested to see how that matchup, how that matchup goes. The sons just don't have that kind of guy. Macau Bridges, for as good a defender as he is, Luke just can body him down. Yeah. DeAndre Aiton is not quick enough to stay in front of him.

Chris Paul is not big enough. Right. It's just they didn't have that one guy and they lit the fire under Luca. I mean, again, I will go back to it. They were going along and Luca was playing at a certain level. And then they just said, they mocked him. And he was like, oh, no, you're not doing that. And he just took him apart.

You know, Luca has, I mean, when you think of the greatest, last 20, 25 years, the great scores, Michael Kobe, Kevin Durant, a LeBron. could be, but I don't think him as you're, he's a little a typical for a score because he's such a great distributor. None of them shoot like Luca

and his body he's so thick. He's not going to have Durant's injury issues. I said this about a year ago. I could see him being the all-time leading score in the NBA by the time. He's like 33 years old.

I mean, he's, he is just the best score on the planet. I'm not even sure. There's nothing quite like him. I mean, it's interesting. Here's my only concern. He's not quick in his scoring. So he needs to body you.

And God, that can wear you out over a career. Because, you know, he doesn't fly past anybody. So every move, Rick, is a lot of work. Hercie, jerky, banging. I yeah well there's a trade-off though I mean you're right but he also he scores efficiently like he can bang you to the mid-range and then step back and hit his shot he can he can score in so many different ways I don't so there's a trade-off there the problem that the mavericks have the bigger problem as I see is your point about he can't score fast like they don't

he generally is not going to get up and down. They shot the three ball well, but if they have to play from behind, they're a different team. They can't score in bunches because that's not, that's not him at his best. And I felt sort of the same. By the way,

I'm in the same condition as you are. I took a red eye to the East Coast on Friday, Friday night for Saturday, and I'm still recovering from that. So I know the feeling. But, no, Dodgich is, again, so much of the playoffs is matchups. Yeah. This was not ultimately ended up not being a good matchup for the Phoenix Suns.

I dare say that if they had gotten somehow managed to get past Dallas, like, I would have liked them against the Phoenix Suns. I think it would have been a completely different, different setup. Now I'm really curious to see whether the Dallas Mavericks can replicate this. Yeah, I think the Warriors are a tough matchup because Wiggins is now the league's best four. Clay, I mean, they're really an intriguing team on nights where pools playing well. It's Steph, it's pool, it's clay, it's Wiggins, you know. And they also, they're so small, but the league's getting small. I mean, let's be honest about it.

The league's getting really small. Dantz is playing five. Giannis is playing five. You have point centers now, essentially. I think Golden State's a handful. First of all, Spencer didn't what he was on fire. With Spencer, I feel like Spencer's the kind of guy. You get about two games like that a series.

You know what I mean? And that's not a knock on him, but he's a B. It's true. And the A's, Luca gives you that game, six games. So I just, I think Golden State, you know them better than I do. But I think they're a, I also think you could throw Draymond at him. You could throw Kuminga at him. You could throw, you know what I mean?

Like, you could just throw more bodies than Fiat. Because Kaminga is 6, 7, 220, you wouldn't put him on for a long stretch. But between Draymond and him, it's a tough matchup. And I think Luca could have an off game or two. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have an answer because you're right. Caminga, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green. You could rotate those guys on to Dachich and you're going to give him a tougher challenge than the Phoenix Suns were able to do with Chris Paul and Mikhail Bridges. None of those guys work.

None of them fit. Jay Crowder, none of those guys can bother Dantzich once he figures you out. But there's also Jalen Brunson. You know, they have other playmakers. And I really, I have to kind of sit back and think about who I like going into this series because the warriors are not the warriors of old. Clay Thompson had a great game six. But for the most part, he's not Clay Thompson anymore. Steph Curry.

I was watching that game with a couple buddies. And they were like, what's wrong with Steph? And I was like, he's lost like a quarter. step. And so he doesn't get the same airspace on his three. And he doesn't get to the rim to be able to finish in the same way. It's just he was always working with a very small margin and maximizing it. And now the margin has shrunk even more. So you have to have Jordan Poole going. You have to have, you have to have clay giving you some semblance. Draymond Green has to be good. But like, and Wiggins has to be efficient.

And you're talking about guys in Wiggins and Poole who just have never been on this, on this, they've never been on the stage before. That's right. So they're kind of figuring it out. So I don't have an answer for you yet on exactly what kind of series we're going to get. I just, I hope we get a long one because it's going to be intriguing. Yeah, I don't think we have a great team in the West. And I don't think we have one in the East because we have Miami and Boston now. I think I like Boston in seven.

But I want to go to Milwaukee. I've always kind of felt with Milwaukee. I said this last year is I think they could win three titles in six years. They feel like the Spurs. I was reading Jeff Perlman's book when I was in Italy, three-ring circus, Kobe, Shack, and Phil. And the amount of chaos, animosity, angst for all those years. And yet they won three straight. And if Caram Malone's healthy, they may be win four straight.

Because they were so gifted. Like the Warriors with Durant, they were so gifted. Look at all the chaos with Jordans, Bulls, Jerry Krause, Phil Rodman. The truly great teams know they're great. There's lots of egos. But they just out-talent you. Milwaukee's like San Antonio. They can't win three straight.

They're not that gifted. They've got to have all the guys healthy. They need a break. And I looked at it and as I watched that Boston series, I thought they're just not good enough without Chris Middleton to end up in the finals. I mean, in the last six years, I could be wrong on this, but I think they've been eliminated four times neither the first of the second round.

Because things didn't work out. They made a conference finals and lost and then they made the finals and won. But I look at Milwaukee and I'm like, listen, they're going to win another championship probably. Yeah. But all of our champions are not equal. There's the Dirk Mavericks. And I kind of feel like this is a poor man's spurs where you've got a dominant big, a strong culture, a couple other really nice players.

You know, Manu Tony, it's Drew, it's Middleton, nice players. But they're not special without middle. You take one of them out and they're a team. they're just a team. Well, it's the challenge too, and fans hate to hear this, but you're in Milwaukee, you're in San Antonio. That's like, it's, you know, you're not going to get Gary Payton and Carl Malone and guys who will join the Lakers to make a run, Horace Graham.

Like, that's not happening for the most part in Milwaukee or San Antonio. You're just going to get good guys who are at the end of their career. the David Wests are going to go there and say, hey, I don't have a ring yet, and I can spend a year in Milwaukee or San Antonio trying to win one. I do, look, I think Janice is going to win a couple more championships. And it's going, and I think he can be better. What we saw against the Celtics is that he reverted a little bit as soon as the mid-range job. jumper wasn't working. And he couldn't score efficiently in that in the mid, uh, in the, uh, in, in the mid post, um, at a slower pace. And he desperately, they desperately needed

that with that Chris Missile, Middleton. That's ultimately what they missed is that Chris Middleton would, would give you some of that. And so, and then they need to get more athletic. Like Pat Connitton, Grace and Allen, like all those guys got exposed. Grace and Allen was terrified on the court. Yes. Yes. He was, he's Duncan Robinson, basically. Like, great regular season. We're going to get you threes. You can hit them. And now we get it where, oh, they're targeting you at the defensive end. And they're not going to let you have a wide open three. You're going to have to put the ball on the floor. Now what can you do? And that's just a guy unravels. So they definitely have some work to do, have to do on this roster.

And now I'll be interested to see where this Boston Celtics team goes because I think there is such a value in winning a championship and understanding what it takes. That's what kind of surprised me with how Milwaukee unraveled as this series went on. Yeah. Like a lot of their, they were self-inflicted wounds. Like they were getting behind early and turning the ball over and missing. missing open threes when they needed one. Like that, when you want a championship, that's not supposed to have. Bobby Portis, you're not supposed to go off the rails.

Oh, God. Game 7. And he was. Liability. You know, if you ever wondered, God, Bobby's such a, he's a really nice player. Why is he bounced around the way that he has? Yeah. Now, now you know.

You get to find out. And the pressures raised, then you find out what the true character of guys are. And he just, he lost it. Volume. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady.

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