The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts: Chris Webber on AD Doubts, Bill Polian on Draft QB's, Deebo Contract w/ John Middlekauff

Episode Date: April 16, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, Colin’s top takes (3:00) on Baker Mayfield's recent podcast appearance slamming the Browns and critical fans, if Dodgers should have pulled Clayton Kershaw during a perfect game after 80 pitches, and how Ben Simmons could make an impact for Brooklyn in the playoffs. Then, (17:00) NBA Hall of Famer and 5-time All-Star Chris Webber explains why Patrick Beverley always gets under the skin of opponents, why it's not going to be easy for the Warriors to move off Klay for Jordan Poole, and why Anthony Davis can only be Robin, but never Batman. Next, (27:00) legendary Hall of Famer former Bills and Colts GM  Bill Polian examines the low wattage starpower in the draft, if Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis have franchise QB potential, and how he would have handled the Aaron Rodgers offseason drama. Finally, (38:00) 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff on if the Niners should extend Deebo Samuel, why it's apparent Shanahan has reservations about Trey Lance, and if the Packers should look to deal draft picks for DK Metcalf. Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith ruling. of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black. people listen to look back at it on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts the volume Colin coward podcast presented by fan dual sports book no better place to bet the action than on fan dual sports book during the football season there's a lot of reasons it's america's number one sports book incredibly easy to use super safe totally secure super fast payouts in as quick as two hours. You're not going to get that anywhere. Also, same game parlay bets, live betting. It's the best. Hey, if you're new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app. I did it in 15 seconds. Get started now. Sign up. Please use the promo code Colin so they know we sent you. Please use the promo code

Colin. C-O-L-I-N. Fandul Sportsbook app, sign up. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast. This week, Hall of Famer Chris Weber explained why he's not very high on Anthony Davis and shared what he thinks about Patrick Beverly's antics. Legendary NFL exec, Bill Pony and shared his insight and upcoming draft thoughts and why he doesn't like Aaron Rogers not showing up to minicamp. My buddy John Middlough, great stuff in the Jimmy G. Tray Lance situation, the D.K. Metcalf trade buzz, but first, my top takes of the week. So Baker Mayfield did an interview on a podcast, and he just sort of let it rip,

let it fly. At one point, he said, on the field, I'm a dickhead. That's never changed. He admits he's got a Napoleon syndrome. He says he felt disrespected by the Browns. And he says he'd like to go into somebody's office and boo them to see how they crumble. He admitted his critics also got to him. You know, Marshall McLuhan is a famous scholar of communications.

He famously said, the medium is. the message, meaning not so much what you say, but how you say it and where you choose to say it. Baker was Lakehouse with a bunch of buddies, host is there, camo hat, drinking a beer, very casual. It's very let it rip. This is where I think Baker Mayfield's personality has never been right to be a quarterback. My wife's an artist. I'm more the compartmentalizer, the observer. We have different personalities.

We make it work. But I will never be able to paint like her. And she won't be able to do certain things I can do. I think the greatest quarterbacks have talent, but their personalities match the position. Tom Brady obviously is a great example. So is Peyton Manning. Very calculated.

Obsessed with preparations. from the podium to a podcast to preparation, to the sidelines, to pre-snap. You'll see very brief emotional outbursts, a fist pump by Brady. Peyton Manning will occasionally bark at his center, but they're very much under control. Baker's personality is much more comedian, surfer, artist, highly emotional, let her rip. That, of course, is a big advantage in surfing or a comedian. You lean into your talent, don't overthink it, and just let it go. But the Russell Wilson's, the Peyton Mannings, the Tom Brady's, they understand being a franchise quarterback, everything has to be planned.

it's not a letter-ripped position. Jay Cutler, Cam Newton, Baker-Mayfield, sort of letter-rip personalities. Don't think before they speak. Often way too casual. It's one of my knocks on Drew Locke, the now Seahawk quarterback. I don't need to know Baker's got a Napoleon problem.

Right now he's interviewing for a job with every other GM in the league. Do you think they want a quarterback with a short guy complex? Do you think they want a quarterback who says he was bothered by the criticism and how to get off social? A quarterback who said, I'd like to go into fans, cubicles and boo them. He's showing weakness. He's showing an inability to control his emotions, that he doesn't have control of them. They control him.

Again, there's a reason certain people flourish in certain jobs. I talk to myself all day. I was meant to talk. It's what I do. I could never have been an artist. There are certain positions I just don't have the right emotional state for. I think Baker's talented, but he almost has a linebacker's personality, a wide receiver's personality, highly emotional, very casual, says the first thing that comes into his mind.

There are a lot of great jobs for that. Quarterback, in my opinion, it's not perfect. So there was a baseball situation yesterday that got people really worked up. Clayton Kershaw, perfect game. After 80 pitches, he was pulled. And this is something that's important. First of all, he's six months off surgery. He's an older pitcher.

He's very valuable of their World Series chances. It was under 40 degrees. Under 40 degrees. And this is an older pitcher now. Managing that arm in his health becomes really important. We know this in all sports. I totally understood why the Dodgers did it. Folks, sports are not just there.

Athletes are not just there for your personal enjoyment. Colin, there's only been 23 perfect games, and Clayton Kershaw only has one left arm. This franchise, the Dodgers, are favorites to win the World Series. The perfect game is like an award. It's cute. Kershaw's a Hall of Famer, first ballot, his legacy is set, got one World Series, would like to have more, over $100 million. in the bank. Okay. To win an award, throw a no hitter perfect game is wonderful. But Clayton Kershaw

totally understood the situation. Sports is not just there for your enjoyment. Big picture. If Clayton Kershaw is 24 and plays for the Mariners or A's with no shot to win a world championship, the Royals or the pirates, and he's a kid not coming off surgery, and it's game two. you go for it. But the bigger picture for the Dodgers is we're not risking an injury. I'll give you an example. Kevin Durant, remember years ago he got hurt. He came back in for the Warriors in the playoffs.

And there were going to be minute limitations. But he came back and he was on fire. And they stretched how many minutes he played. And he got hurt. Big picture should have pulled. them out earlier. You can't just go with an older, somewhat brittle athlete. You can't just go on current momentum. You have to go into games or series with pitch counts or minute limits. So yes, it drives you crazy. Kershah agreed to it, understood it. They have bigger goals here than

perfect games or no hitters. It's 38 degrees. He's just off surgery. And he's an older pitcher. One thought about the NBA playoffs. The playing game start Tuesday. The playoffs officially start Saturday. Obviously, the last year, the last year and a half has been really brutal for Ben Simmons. Didn't work in Philadelphia. Part of the Brooklyn trade disappears.

There are stories now, multiple sources saying he could play in the first round of the NBA playoffs. And I said this about two weeks ago. If Ben Simmons plays and never scores simply defends and distributes to Katie, Kyrie Irving, and the crew, I think Brooklyn can get to the Eastern Conference Finals against Milwaukee and give them fits. They'll beat Miami. I think they'd beat a Boston, easily beat a Chicago if they played him, Philadelphia as well. Ben Simmons' length, defense, and distribution. Forget scoring. If he's tentative in regards to shooting, his size, his length, his distribution,

the guy's got multiple gifts above the shoulders. Who knows what I get? Does he have any confidence? But, I mean, you don't even have to play in big minutes. If they got into a series with a Miami or a Boston and I could get eight minutes a half, out of him. Seriously. Put him on a Jason Tatum. Put him on a Jimmy Butler. The kid is 610 and incredibly long and is a willing defender. And knowing he's not there offensively, you know his distribution and his defense, you would be getting max effort from Ben Simmons. So that is a really,

really intriguing playoff story. Now, you say to yourself, what about the chemistry? Again, you don't even need to ask him to start. If he can be a lockdown defender in spots against the Jimmy Butler or Jason Tatum, eight minutes a half, I think that's the difference in those series. Very rarely do you go into a playoff series and you have the two best closures and lose that series? Their only problem in Brooklyn is length and depth and defense because Kyrie is an atrocious defender. In the NBA playing tournament, there are no sure things, except one. Bet at least $20 in same game parley's on Fandallis on Fandall Sportsbook, you'll get an instant bonus, win or lose.

$20. That's right. Not only do you get to enjoy the NBA's best duking it out for the right to advance to the playoffs, but Fandul's giving all customers a bonus for getting in on the action. Oh, and the more you bet, the bigger your bonus. Fan duel is an official partner of the NBA. Their app is safe, easy to use, and you'll get your winnings fast. New to the FanDule Sportsbook, we'll sign up today, promo code Colin, to make every moment more. So don't just watch the NBA playing tournament be part of it.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. Now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode

where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's bring in Chris Weber, the Hall of Famer, Fab Five, Five-time All-Star, number one pick, rookie the year, one of my favorite people. I get them about once a year, and I love it.

So I want to talk to you about Patrick Beverly. And I know it's a weird place to start. But, but, you know, Bill Lambere tackled people. Dennis Rodman was a pain in the ass. And, you know, as a Fab Five guy, as a Michigan guy, is that there is absolutely, in my opinion, room for Patrick Beverly. But what is the line, Chris, between. being physical and screwing with guys' knees, hurting them. Like, as a pro athlete, I don't know what the line is.

What is it with Patrick Beverly? What does he do that bothers you? And what are you okay with? Man, that's a great question. Thanks for having me along. I think, first, I think everybody would want to play with them and a quick, Bill Ambier story, one of my favorite players ever growing up in Detroit. And I used to love it.

He's one of the reasons why I love playing on the road and would do like this, the booze, the antics, he really taught us to embrace, you're going to get hated anyway. However, when I played against some true story, my first time in the NBA, going home, I knew the guy. I go up and get a rebound, tap it against the backboard to show how high it could jump and go down the court. You know, it was like an old trick. He catch and tap it. The next time I go up and I see him, he sticks his leg out and I twist my ankle. I think maybe 17 seconds or two minutes into the game, something like that.

And I was out probably six games. It's my rookie year. And so even though he's one of my favorite players, this is one of the dirtiest things that I've seen. So I did the game, I believe. I kind of take the game when he had Westbrook bump knees, like after a late timeout. I don't think that was dirty because I've seen players do that their whole careers.

Right. However, I think the answer is not saying anything and maybe take him on technical with a quick elbow. It's really easy if you don't get, caught up in the antics, especially in a two, three game series. It's really easy to shut them down because then they start looking like a little clownish. The only way they don't look like a clown is when they bring you into the argument, you have to try to figure out who's really, you know, acting, who's the bad actor in this. Yeah, no, that's what he did with Morris. He got

him worked up, he got into his head. Was there ever a guy in the league that was a talker with you and tried to reel you in? Not a talker because you couldn't get me that way. So if you wanted to slide under, the Collins brothers. I hated playing them. Nahara, Mattson. Any guy then that would flop smartly, use their brain, get in front of you. But I hated those guys because they got the benefit of the doubt. They're beating you up just as much and they're getting the benefit of doubt. And to me, those guys were, I'm going to say just as effective. They don't have the winning record of a Rodman. But in games, they're just as, you know, as effective as a Beverly as well. So, yeah, those guys, I used to hate playing with those guys.

A team that I find really interesting, Golden State. So Jordan Poole is now emerging as a star. Clay Thompson's not quite what he was off injury. And when Clay plays a lot of minutes, I think it hinders Jordan Poole. And I think everybody knows that on the roster. But Clay's your guy. Okay, Clay's your dude. You travel with him. You've probably gone to weddings. you get into a weird situation where everybody in the damn room is like, I should do Jordan Poole needs to play 42 minutes. Tell me how difficult that is when one of your guys, you know, he's eroding, he's not ascending, and here comes the young buck.

Can it screw with chemistry? So I heard you today. And I hope that for fans sake, you know, I love it when you go off on tangents or rabbit holes. And I hope that you really go down the rabbit hole of the draft pick does not mean as much. in big cities anymore and you're so right. You need to really go down that rabbit hole. I'm sure your researchers can get you a lot of.

L.A. didn't get shocked. You know, they didn't draft shack. So I totally, you know, agree with you on that. However, I don't know if I can answer this question and not be sentimental, and I think that's the problem that Clay gives. They are a dynasty.

They were a dynasty. You're right in every way, but I'm just adding the motion which you're going to have to take an effect for fans and other things, especially if you don't win one. And you're betting on Poole, who is going to be great. But, you know, you would do that to Clay, and he's not yet a full year in. You know, he, this dynasty never got a chance to win once we saw a team get hurt or Katie get hurt.

You know, this unfinished business. He's, you know, of course, Dr. Maim of the last, you know, vestiges of that. So if you are right, I would not. want to be part of that. I was in Detroit again, Pistons fan, when we had a parade. And I think the next day,

and Rick Morris said, oh, thank you for helping me lose all this weight. I love you. And like three days later, he was traded for, I believe Mark McGuire. And I mean,

as a Pistons fan, and we won, but I was just hurting that. And I would not want to be the man that trading played Thompson. Because if it, what works? Like,

does anything but the championship works? And if not, I think keeping him around Still trying to win a championship may be the best, but I do think that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, listen, this is all, it's a relationship business. I mean, the truth is, Steph Curry has made the owner a billion dollars easily. In value of franchise, in marketing sales, you do sometimes have to go to your star and say, hey, man, this is a go either way decision. I mean, I think.

I got to get more for him, though. I got to get more. And I think you said Anthony Davis earlier, I'm not, I'm not taking him. I don't, you know, I'm not taking him for play, for the community, because it is relationship. So if we're going to do that, we got to go, we got to go get maybe Bill and someone else and give up our picks because I really believe you on that. But I just don't think, you know, we're going to have to go for a super, superstar because that's who I believe he would. I still believe he has two years left of that. So let's go to that.

Let's pivot to the Lakers. That I'm, I think people tell you who they are. I think it was Maya Angelou who said that. People tell you who they are. Believe them. So when AD came in out of shape off the bubble championship, I mean, LeBron is sitting there thinking timeout. I'm obsessed with this sport.

Dude, I just need you to be in shape as a pro athlete. I would have moved off him there by low, sell high. Now, with the injuries, this is who he is. He's showing you who he is. He's not a workout fiend. He's not really a leader. He's he's hella talented, but he's hurt increasingly more. What was your feeling when you were in the game about athletes that get hurt?

Is it bad form to move off them? Or did you always feel like, hey man, some dudes, they just, they can't give you 82. I mean, how to, as a pro athlete, how do you view that? Yeah. And I was plagued by injuries or like ankle injuries, things like that. So AD's last injury, you can tell like it wasn't his fault, you know, like Curry suffered injuries. But I think, you know, if you're going to get injured, I want to know what guy will work is, you know, tail off to come back the fastest. So then I have to take your work ethic into a cut.

And so I do think some guys is unfair. And then I do think as an athlete, you work out a lot so that you can feel confident that you won't have those breakdowns. And then you look at guys that don't work out and you say, see, that's why. And so it's not even the injuries. You know, I just go back to the previous memory of anybody playing with the bar. That's how I judge plays. Because I know it's a different day and you can win championships. And I think, you know, my generation should kind of admire the fact that you can go play with friends and free agency.

But at the same time, you know, watching a guy like Dirk, even though he won a championship, but you knew he was a winner even before if he would have never won one because of how you knew he put Dallas on his back. And you could trust that. He just needed help. I never felt that way with AD that he just needed help. I felt that he could be that missing piece for someone else, but that no one else could be that. And I don't know when he's proven that.

He's a wonderful talent, but, you know, I'm just looking, you know, and he hit some big shots with the brunt. I get that, but, you know, we're talking about him being an alpha, and I don't know when that's worked. So I'm not as high on injury or not being the number, being the number one guy if LeBron's not on the team. The Brons on the team, he could be number one in two, but if not, I'm not high. Bill Pollyan was the GM for the Bills during their 90s Super Bowl run. He also built the Colts into a Super Bowl winner, Super Bowl 41.

Work for the Panthers as well. He's one of the smartest personnel people I've ever met. He knows I think that. And he is now joining us on our Colin Coward podcast on a Friday. So it's interesting, Bill. When I look at a draft, it's not more or less interesting to me based on the players. I like the process, the architecture of it. I like the construct of an NFL team and building it.

I don't really, the players, it's almost like college sports. You know, when I watch Duke and Mike Shoshchewski, the players come and go. It's the arena. It's the coach. It's his system. It's his offense. So this is being called sort of a low wattage, a low star draft in your history of doing all these drafts. Does this compare to any draft that you recall?

You know, that's an interesting question. It could very well have been 2000. I don't think there. there was a lot of star power in 2000. And Star Power is really defined as franchise-type quarterbacks. That's really what it's all about. I mean, when you think about all of the rush people that are in this draft, there are guys that are going to play in the league for a long time and be stars.

But the quarterbacks aren't there, and as a result, it doesn't have quite the buzz that it would otherwise. Here's what worries me about Kenny Pickett. his biggest year was his last year. He had a turnover problem in college. I'm not obsessed with hand size, but it was a Jared Goff issue. And he had a problem securing the football. Kenny has a hand size issue. I think he is big enough, athletic enough, not a huge arm, not a big plus plus arm. But I do worry that by the end of his college career, you know, he's like a 23 year old, 24 year old kid playing with a lot of 20 year olds. and and I don't see a lot of it.

I see capable. Is that fair? No, I think it's a little unfair because what happened was he got a really good receiver his last year at Pitt. And he connected with that guy. And he got better coaching. He got a more pro-style approach to the game as opposed to simply. pure spread. And so everything fit together for him.

So I wouldn't hold the previous years against him. He's growing and developing. And he fulfills virtually every bill parcells Axiom, which is, you know, one of which is to play 30 games. Right. The arm strength is okay. It's not great, but it's okay. and that's all you need as long as you're accurate and you can process. And it looks as though he processes well.

He's athletic enough to make plays with his feet and to move out of the pocket and certainly to move within the pocket. And he's got, I don't believe that he lacks the it factor. I think he's got it. He led Pitt from behind on a number of occasions this past year. he beat a pretty good North Carolina team in the bowl game. He's got the it factor, I think. So he's going to play, you know, how good will he be? I think any quarterback's only as good as the people around him.

I would point you to Alabama's young man last year, who many of the same people, people were saying the very same thing about, who is the most successful rookie quarterback this year, the young man from Alabama. So, you know, I think he'll play and be pretty good. When Josh Allen came in from Wyoming, I had talked to somebody who said he made a mistake evaluating him. He said, I should have taken his greatest moments and consider those more than I did his overall play. Because when you watch his NFL career, you see a lot of his greater moments.

And those were sensational. but I didn't take into consideration. He wasn't as refined. Well, he was going to get better coaching in the pros. So when I watch Malik Willis drives the ball, big, trunky, thick athlete, sounds like a good kid. He may not have the most refined tape, but there are moments on it that are, wow. How do you judge him the more raw prospect? Well, first of all, he's six feet tall, and that's worrisome.

short quarterbacks, you know, Doug Flutie and Drew Brees are the exceptions, not the rule. So that's difficult to begin with. Secondly, the arm strength part of it is, you know, it's good. It's good to have a strong arm, but that's not what wins in the league. It's processing and the ability to be accurate with the ball. And now he comes in as a guy who essentially does, makes his living with his legs. He does spectacular things. My question is, can he do winning things?

And those are two different categories. Right. Two different completely categories. So I have questions there. I have questions there. Now, his coach, Hugh Fries, to my knowledge, hasn't had any NFL experience, made a statement that I saw which says he doesn't know what he doesn't know, meaning the young man doesn't yet know what he doesn't know. And that's true of every rookie quarterback. But the other thing you have to keep in mind is that he's making a big jump up and level of competition.

Liberty is below the level of the mid-American. This isn't Ben Rutherspurger coming in here, you know, who dominated the mid-America. So there's that. So to me, there are some questions here. And I think but for the rookie salary cap and the 50-year option, I don't think I'd consider him as a first-rounder. but because of the rookie cap and because of the fifth year option, he is probably worth taking a chance on because if you hit on him, you got him for four years at a low salary and five years at a reasonable salary.

And if you don't hit, if he doesn't do well, then all you've lost is a first round draft choice. And that's not insignificant, but it's not the end of the world. Quarterbacks mean more than ever. They're more compensated than ever. They have more power and leverage than ever. And now many are demanding mobility. It's a new time.

It's almost a international soccer star feel, NBA superstar feel, not quite there yet. But with the Aaron Rogers situation, I mean, he called out the franchise. He's tried to humiliate the franchise. He's not going to show up to one of his camps, even though they may have young receivers they just drafted. He's not going to show up. He'll do talk shows, game shows. And I think to myself, boy, I almost wonder if Green Bay would be better with an owner who could get on the phone and bark at him a little bit and say, hey, pal, you know, but they don't have that in Green Bay. The other day, Mark Murphy said he doesn't have a three-year contract. He's got three one-year contracts. And I thought, I don't know if he's going to be there for three years. I mean, where is your line in the sand on not having leverage with a star?

being publicly humiliated by a star, having him not being accommodating. I mean, some of this stuff I look at and think, man, I know he's talented, Bill, but this is a lot. I mean, you go out and take shots at the organization. You can do it with no owner, but it's a lot to deal with. I know, like Debo, he's talented, but how would you have handled this? Well, Mark Murphy is not only a very smart guy, but a former player. And so he understands the chemistry of the locker room.

He understands what the trigger man does for you. He understands the dynamic that that guy brings to the team. And, you know, you stretch that rubber band as far as you can stretch it in order to win. Now, in Aaron's case, what was shocking to me was he had to know that Devante was leaving. He did. He had to know it. And yet he still took the money, knowing that he was going to be bereft of his number one received. So that tells you, common sense tells you it had to be about the money.

That's what it was about, not getting me a team, not let me put. put my stamp on the offense, not let me bring Tommy Clements as good as Tommy is, but let me get my contract on here. So there's nothing wrong with that. Every player should do that. But to do it in a disruptive way is really stretching that rubber band. And now not showing up at mini-camp after you've gotten all this money and the off-season program, after you've got and all this money. That one, you know, even Mark probably has difficulty with that. As mature as he is and as experienced as he is, it's one of the people I respect most

to this business, it's got a stick in his craw. And they would in mind. I mean, owner or no owner, I think I'd sit down and say, listen, we need to get some things straight here. Yeah. All right, let's bring him on, my buddy, John Middlough, former NFL Scout, also host a three and out and the go-low golf pod on the volume. So I want to go because you're so connected to the Niners to the Debo-Samuel deal.

I said this the other day, having been in the media for 25 years, one of the annoying things about the younger media, because I think most people work very hard and I encourage and I root for them and I'm going to hire some of them. But there's this sort of just pay everybody. You know, pay DAC, pay Zieg. Well, now the Cowboys, you see what happens when you pay a running back two years early. the cowboys are bailing water. Dak, he's a B plus quarterback.

You see what happens when you pay guys like that. So the Debo Samuel is, oh, you got to pay him. And my takeaway is A, his style will not age well, period. Secondly, Shanahan leans into that style. Third, Kiddell is already sort of a weathered player. So do I want Kiddell and D.B.? to be my two highest paid offensive guys, and I said this,

go look at the Rams best players. They're always available. Jalen Ramsey, Matt Stafford, Aaron Donald, Cooper Cup, Bobby Wagner. Always available. Trent Williams's been hurt. Garoppel's been hurt. DiBoh's been hurt.

Kittles been hurt. I don't think it's a slam dunk. I would struggle to pay Debo Samuel. Well, I think on the big picture there with the Rams and the Niners, philosophically, they play a little differently, right? The Rams are more spread it out, throw it around.

Kyle Shanahan, which is ironic, because when you think young coaches in football, you think throw it around the yard, score a bunch of points, Lincoln Riley, Sean McVeigh.

Kyle is much more like Jim Harbaugh, wants to ugly the game and have a war zone. And it separated the Niners. You know, their two playoff runs, two of the last three years,

because they come in like a heavyweight fighter, Mike Tyson and teams aren't ready for it. That's right. But they lose guys, when it's a little off, you lose these Devin, Harbaugh,

you know, Navaral Bowman, And you potty, guys shattering ankles and legs. Yep. It's happened a little bit. Kyle Shanahan's running backs drop like flies. Yes. His dads did too because he will just hammer the run until the cows come home.

But I think what complicates Debo is the guys that got paid, if you're just sitting in Debo shoes, you go, I just carried the franchise of the playoffs. And he's not totally wrong. That's right. We all witnessed it. You don't need to be, whether you're young or old, we watched it happen. But all the guys that got paid, Stefan Diggs, has dominated for multiple franchises.

Tyree Kill and Devante Adams are going to be Hall of Famers on their resume. They've been doing it now for a half decade. Debo had a 10-game stretch. In 2020, Colin, that was a weird year. COVID. They didn't have off-season. He didn't play. Showed up out of shape, too.

Now, they like him. He's a good guy. But it's like, that's on his resume. So it's like, well, Debo, we love you. You're a team leader, your team captain. But, you know, I can't give you 70 guarantee. Now, and he's offended when you offer him 50. But, like, based on your resume, you'll,

only have a one year of being a dominant player and your best attribute, you're not catching a hundred balls, you're running back basically, right? And what do we say with running backs? Can't give him a second contract or a big contract. But this guy, he's a, you know, his personality, people love him. He's such a great player. You can't get rid of them. They're in a weird spot. Now, is he going to hold out? Is he going to do what these players do now to hold in? Right. T.J. Watt did that last year where you show up to be a good guy, but you don't, because I, I, I, I, If I was Debo's agent, I wouldn't allow him to take another live rep for the Niners in practice or a game. Right.

There's just too much. The contracts now are too big. Even if we sign a quote unquote team friendly deal, we got to sign the deal before we do it, which is a problem because the Niners are breaking in this new quarterback. They're just in a weird spot with this individual player who's a huge part of everything they do. You know, it is interesting on the Trey Lance front. I don't like his delivery. I like him. I like his athleticism.

He does have a power arm. It doesn't look good at all. I contend they would have moved off Garoppolo already if they absolutely knew he was the guy. So that leads me to the obvious question. You're tied in here. They have reservations about Trey Lance, right? Yeah, I think these next two months, you know, when they're on the field, now, granted, it's just shorts and T-shirts, but just his command of the offense, is running the offense. I mean, Kyle, again, for a younger guy, is really an old soul.

He's much more like his dad, like Bill, very old. He would easily play again with Jimmy Garoplo if he. He doesn't think Trey's ready. But Trey's going to get the shot because Jimmy, even though he's technically still on the team, is injured, can't throw. It's all Trey. So this offseason, I would imagine Kyle's going to throw the kitchen sink at him, everything he learned last year, and just evaluate the two months of him running all the drills with all the reps. And if he feels good going into the summer, now granted, you know, football, you're not in helmets and pads. The game's way different.

But I do think he'll either, he'll feel better or he'll have his reservations and then Jimmy might stay. I want to go to the NFL draft because generally, I'm pretty wonky on it. I love it. It's a weak draft. It's a bunch of, you know, it feels like the first couple of rounds are a lot of second round, late first round players. Even the guys I like, you know, I think Aiden Hutchison is going to be a really nice player.

I don't think he's Chase Young. I don't think he's a Bosa. I don't think he's T.J. Watt. And here, I was saying this to a friend the other day, a lot of bad teams and bad front offices. have multiple first round picks. I know. So take me into the, as a former NFL scout,

so the Packers have two firsts at the end of the, of the round, late firsts. They have no number one or number two receiver. Randall Cobb is probably a four. Alan Lazards of four. Amari Rogers, the slot kid from Clemson, is a fairly weak three. He was like a return guy last year. Metcalf solves a lot of issues. He's like Des Bryant.

He scores a lot. You don't have to love his routes. He's a freak. There's nobody like him. He's a little like Javon Kirste when he came in. There was nothing else like him on the market. Kind of like T.O. when he was young.

It just doesn't look like any other wordsaber. That's right. And D.K. Minnesota Vikings weaknesses. Their corners. I don't think it's a bear's strength or a lion's strength. So he could really eat up that conference more so perhaps than even the conference NFC. West.

Would you move picks to get D.K. Mattcalfe. knowing you'd have to pay him a fortune in a year? Yeah, I mean, I think the people I've talked about or talked to in the league, once those guys got, once like Tyreek got traded and Devante got traded, would you do the same thing for D.K. Metcalf? And the question is, like, the one thing with Devante, right, elite character and elite production.

Tyreek, you know, for the most part has been when he plays, like there is no question about his competitiveness. Yeah. He's been, I mean, they've been the best team in the league for basically four years running, and he's been their second best player. So you just, you know you've seen him at the biggest moments. I think there are question marks about DK. The diva just once you pay him 20, it was not to be 20 million a month ago.

Now you know that number probably even higher. He's got 29 touchdowns in three years. He's produced at a really high level. He's very Des Bryant. Jason Garrett told me this one. He said you don't have to love his temperament or the fact that he doesn't run every route. He scores touchdowns. And that's a lot.

A lot. And that's MECF. He gets to the end zone a lot. Yeah. because his speed is elite. I just go back to John Schneider. And isn't the point of being a GM? Ultimately, the Russell divorce had to happen.

Isn't the point of being a GMM drafting guys in the second, third round, and landing guys like DK and then keeping them in his prime? Like, wouldn't you just want to keep him until you figure out your quarterback situation? But ultimately, whether Pete leaves in a year or whatever, and you get a, like John's got a pretty good chance probably of getting another coach, you would say. And he knows him really well. If he's willing to get off of him, wouldn't that be a pretty big red flag? because for the most part, Seattle always extended their core suite players.

Now, they broke up with them pretty poorly as we've seen Bobby Wagner, Sherman. Ends weird, but they always got second contracts. And D.Ks earned it, right? Now, you know, Drew Locke, if you want to give them a chance to succeed, the other thing with John Snyder is he's always been out of it. And I agree with them is they never have 32 players on their draft board that are worthy of a first round pick. That's why historically when they were good, they always traded out in the first round. because it's like, well, I'm drafting 27th,

but I'm going to take a guy that I don't view as a first rounder, then I pay first round money. So he always traded back or for players. Now, it didn't always work out, but I understood the logic. Right. So part of trading Russell this year, which made sense for him probably, is I get a sweet high pick. So even if I do trade back a couple spots to acquire another second,

I'm still picking at 14 or 18, or I want to stay at whatever there, at 9, right of 10. Right. So he's, to me, he's got a lot of wiggle room to really improve his team and still, quote, quote, be competitive. I don't think Drew Locke's any good, but do they end up with Baker Mayfield? You know, which kind of feels like that's the only place that Baker's going to end up. And then, you know, Baker's just solid.

They have some talent around them. You know, maybe they could be somewhat competitive, right? At the volume sports, Twitter, Instagram, go to our YouTube page. At the volume sports, subscribe. The volume. Make sure to check out the Dremon Green show. I brought Dremon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope.

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