The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Cowboys “Circus”, Trouble Brewing For Bengals, Kevin Na On Golf’s Big Breakup

Episode Date: August 9, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to discuss expectations for J.J. McCarthy with the Vikings (2:45), why the Commanders NEED to pay Terry McLaurin (8:00), and whether things could get UGLY between the Bengals and Joe Burrow if they miss the playoffs again (15:30). Then, he’s joined by Cowboys reporter Matt Mosley from Cowboys training camp! They break down the circus surrounding the Micah Parsons contract situation (27:00) and preview what the Cowboys offense could look like with the addition of star WR George Pickens (29:00). Finally, Colin is joined by LIV Tour professional golfer Kevin Na! They begin with Kevin’s decision to make the move from the PGA Tour to the LIV Golf tour and how difficult of a decision it was (32:00)  They talk about the initial blowback players received for “defecting” from the PGA Tour and whether that has dissipated after some time (34:30). They discuss the evolution of Phil Mickelson over the years and Kevin offers nothing but high praise for the legend (36:00).  They highlight Bryson DeChambeau’s journey from heel to hero as he’s become a superstar on the tour (38:00), and discuss whether another golfer will ever be able to capture Tiger Wood’s larger than life persona in the world of golf (40:45). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. I'm going to still stick with my prediction. The J.J. McCarthy will, if he does have success, it's a little bit of a Brock Purdy thing. It's the coach. It's the left tackle. It's the weapons that will put him in a place that I think elevates him beyond what he would be with average personnel, average coach, or bad.

I don't think Brock Purdy is good enough to save a bad situation. But I think in the current situation with Trent Williams, Kittle, Jennings, Shanahan, McCaffrey, I think more than capable. I tend to think McCarthy is going to fall into that. I mean, left tackle, head coach. running back, tight end. I think J.J. McCarthy would have to be bad not to have some Brock Purdy-level success where, you know, he's not a physical specimen, but he can complete passes and move the chains. I do think, though, he, you know, Brock Purdy got to come in toward middle of the end of the year, right? So there was less pressure, and let's face it, when Jimmy Garoppolo shattered his ankle,

the expectations for Brock Purdy were zilch. I mean, I thought their season was over. And then the kid just started rattling off games. You know, for J.J. McCarthy, a little like Trey Lance when the 49ers drafted him, kind of like Caleb, but we didn't really believe in Iber Fluse. It's pretty rare that a guy that was drafted pretty high starts on a team that, what do you think is a fair expectation, anything less than the NFC championship game with their roster, their coaching staff? It's really, really high.

You know, it's not like 9 and 8 and some growing pains. You know, Justin Jefferson has some comments within the last week. You can just tell it's like our expectations here are high. And it's like this is a work in progress. Now, the good thing is you can get better, right? He might not be, same with Caleb, same with a lot of these guys, what they look like in September. They might look a lot better in November.

But it can go the other way too. It can break you. So if you have a couple tough games, how do you handle that adversity? That's really what all the NFL is, right, is handling the tough times to get to the better times. I was reading somebody in the athletic rank the coaching staffs. And I didn't disagree. He had Minnesota is the best coaching staff in the league. I think he had San Francisco with Kyle and Sala, too.

Are you talking the whole staff? Yeah, I mean, basically head coach, top two coordinators. He had Minnesota number one. And I think, and I've said this about Brock Purdy. I mean, literally, he got the keys to a Mercedes. You get Shanahan, McCaffrey, Trent Williams, at the time, Debo, I.U., Kittle. I mean, that's hard to mess up. I mean, if you're just capable, if you're quick above the shoulders,

which I think J.J. McCarthy, Brock Purdyar. I think they're smart guys. The downside to it is it's not, it's a hard eval. It's hard to evaluate somebody when they're, I mean, it would be like putting somebody with Charles Barkley, Shaq, and Ernie Johnson. It's hard to really say what Kenny Smith is, certainly capable, but his role on that show is to kind of poke the bear and just kind of have fun and be the straight man. And so it is hard to make it. It's an easy evaluation on Jaden Daniels last year. Oh shit. He's carrying a bad all line, a defensive coach, a one weapon offense. Wow. It's like Andrew Luck, either. Herbert's rookie year. Wow. This is impressive. I think JJ's

going to be a hard evaluation because how much of the success is based on, I mean, let's be honest. Last year in week 14, Sam Darnold was first or second an MVP. He was a bust going to Minnesota. So like now, I don't even know quite what to make of Darnold. What is Darnold? Well, I'm pretty high. I think Darnold, I think their team's going to be pretty good, you know, given health, the talent in Seattle. I would expect, you know, pretty high things for Sam, maybe not to throw 35 touchdowns, but to just be a solid player in the NFL moving forward. you know, be a guy that's on the good side of the top 15 of the quarterbacks, not, you know, somewhere between 22 and 32, like most people thought he just sucked. But one thing going back to Darnold, he said that change his career was not just Kyle believing him, but watching Brock Purdy operate.

And the thing that separated Brock Purdy immediately was not his height, was not his arm strength, it was all the intangible stuff, which he had built for four years at an, let's face it, when he got there, kind of an average. football program that him and Matt Campbell transitioned into a high-level football program where he was getting offered by USC. And the big reason was because of Brock Purdy. You know, I mean, let's face it, Mel Tucker got some big jobs because, you know, got a huge extension because of Kenneth Walker. Sometimes one or two individuals at not the top-tier programs can change the course of your career.

So Brock Purdy, his intangibles are a huge separating factor for why, you know, all the guys with the 49ers, coaches and players believe in them. And, you know, JJ, he's just going to have to prove it. You know, and it's going to have to be part of his repertoire. Are you getting there at 5 in the morning? Are you grinding Monday through Saturday? Because that's all these quarterbacks. That's all they talk about.

It's not just the grind on. Tom Brady's been talking about Mondays and Tuesdays for 15 years. So you and I both agree on this, that the Terry McLaurin situation in Washington is troubling. So I liked the Debo acquisition because he's a chess piece. And Cliff Kingsbury would be, you know, a play designer is good with chess pieces. But Debo is not as good consistently or as healthy consistently or as productive consistently as Terry McLaren. And Terry's been the guy that's been, I mean, because of where he was drafted, Terry hasn't gotten a huge payday yet. In fact, you could argue before Amaran St. Brown's contract that McLaren and Amaran St. Brown's contract that McLaren and Amaran

Brown with the most underpaid underpaid weapons in the league. So I actually get Terry McLaren saying, guys, like I have outperformed my contract fourfold. Debo is a guy that's not going to be a centerpiece, more of a chess

piece, struggles to stay healthy. No, no, no. I'm not doing any team favors on this. I kind of side with Terry McLaurin here. You. Belichick talked about this for a long time. The locker room dynamics and money, I mean, you're dealing with young people

who value themselves based on their contract relative to their peers. You know, it's hard with NFL contracts because it's convoluted because a signing bonus is pro-rated money. But basically, they make a very similar amount of actual cash going into their bank account, week one through 17 this year, Debo and Terry McLaren. Last time I checked, Terry McLaren had 13 touchdowns last year, and it was a massive reason that Jaden Daniels became a star. And if you're him, like, What about all the sweat equity when this franchise was a joke? Yes. I was the good guy doing the right thing.

You bring in this other guy who is the GM's guy, right, from the 49ers. But he peaked, you know, part of the reason Kyle got rid of him, and he's like chubby, wide receiver. When did you ever hear about that? Like, couldn't stay in shape. Got Moody's. Asked for trades before. Now he comes, and we're making similar money. These are human beings, right?

I totally understand, like, that's not really, I feel like a part of the reporting. It's not like, and Terry would come out and say, I'm. jealous or angry because, but you can't tell me that didn't play a part. You think I'm going to make the same amount of money as this guy. You know, we're both in contract years. Yet I've, this is my team, which I've been here from day one, you just bring in this guy. I also wonder if it showed him like, well, this administration, they weren't my people. So I better be pretty careful now. They're going to want me to lay it on the line now. But what if I get hurt and then I can't get a contract after this issue? They don't care. They'll just move on. Because white receivers,

this isn't, you know, tackle or defense event. It's not, it's a very, it's a pretty, it's a easy position to replace. Even if Debo fails, they could just draft a guy next year in the first round or the second round or hit on a guy in the fourth round. Who knows, maybe McCaffrey's brother becomes a 50-catch guy. It's an easy, you could argue it's the easiest position now to find. Oh, I can name off the top of my head, the Tank Dells and the Pukunakua's and the Amaran-Stan St. Browns. Rounds four, five, Jennings and San Francisco's, I think a seventh-round guy. Wide receivers easily. Now, it can be the most inflammable and bustable first round pick because they come in, you know, it's an ego position. They come in in the first round,

but by and large, it's, I just, I look at Terry McLaren and I try to personalize it. And I'm thinking, he's been a good guy. He's been productive. He was the star. He is, to a large degrees, the one thing you could build Jaden Daniels around, not the old line of the run game or tied end. I think you have to take care of him. And for the record, I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago, but you can pay two weapons now. And they're not paying a running back big money or a tight end. Like 10 years ago, the money was dispersed often more on the defense than offense. In New England, it was. I mean, Brady was taking cuts. In the NFL now, the Rams, like the Rams, the chiefs, they pay like one defensive player. So I'm okay paying two weapons. I'm okay

with T. Higgins and Jim R. Chase. I'm okay with it. Well, imagine if you're Terry two, so you look around and you go, listen, I'm not even comparing myself to, to Jamar Chase or C.D. Lamb or Justin Jefferson. But I'll just go, D.K. Metcalf, the next tier guys, who early on his career had, like, the greatest start ever. Last couple years have been weird. The guy gets penalties every game. And Seattle was like, yeah, we're kind of out of this business.

He said he asked for a trade. I think they were ready to pivot. Yeah. And he goes, well, he just gets $150 million and $60 million and guaranteed. And he's a question mark of, like, can you corral this guy? He's like a better version of some of these crazy guys. I am everything you would want, character, check all these boxes, and I produce. And I can't get, you guys won't even offer me anything.

So they want him, and it's the NFL, it's cutthroat. I totally understand it. But I think they want him just to play this season on the $15 million and then evaluate after that. Now, this isn't the NBA, right? When these guys ask for trades, like, you don't just, he's gone. Like, that's not how they're going to operate. And I think these guys know now that they'll get fined and they can't take them back so they show up so they don't get $50,000 a day. But they don't really have to do anything.

But is it worth having this guy who's kind of the heartbeat of your – one of the heartbees of your team team captain being mad and in a weird mood. Like the expectations for Washington, this is why it's hard. And all these coaches say what happened last year is kind of irrelevant this year because guys want to get paid, guys got injured. Some guys are gone. Like every team is – they had nothing but good vibes last year. Now this year it's like, oh. Yeah, no. And the other thing is this is not the NBA, where it's hard to name a player whose career was ended because of an injury.

It's the same in baseball. Outside of pitchers and arms, I mean, baseball careers can last forever. In football, it's just one shot to the knee and you're not the same wide receiver. So, like, I get the psychology of McLaurin's like, bro, I'm taking, I take hits at practice. Like, we can all name 10 pro football. careers that have been ended early because of injuries. It doesn't happen in basketball and baseball or hockey as much. So I get McLaurans, there's a certain insecurity about football players.

I get why they want to get paid. Totally. And I think they see it at training camp and we're numb to it as fans and coaches and GMs don't care. But you see guys every single day, so-and-so shattered his leg, so-and-so ripped his Achilles. A lot of times it's like the 75th man, so no one cares. Those players are standing there right in that drill and see the cart come at. And they knew that guy. Hell, it might be their buddy.

They might have been eating lunch with them. But he's on the practice squad. They've been hanging out with him for a couple of years. They see that cart leaving with his helmet. They go, his career could be over. And then a couple days later, he's waved injured. And so for every time that we see, well, because I always say this, most good players see the majority of their contract.

Like Russell Wilson is kind of an outlier. If you look at the landscape of the league, all the top players, because we haven't had catastrophic injury to a lot of the top players in recent years. They're seeing the guaranteed money and the non-guaranteed money of their contract. But it's just, I wouldn't take that risk if I were any of these guys either because all it takes is one guy fall in India and your career's done. Or you're just never the same and all of a sudden you go from a $20 million player to a veteran minimum guy. So Mike Brown's the old owner of the Bengals and he kind of lashed out and said, you know, the Trey Hendricks and stuff. You know, he goes, a lot of media makes good points, but a lot of media is just talking.

And I was thinking about it as I was flying from Rhode Island back to Chicago tonight. It is hard to have an A-level quarterback and miss the playoffs. 14 of the 32 teams make it. So 40% of the league makes it. Joe Burrow, there's an argument, was the most efficient quarterback in the league last year. It's much more than Mahomes. So there was an argument on a week-to-week basis, just efficiency. quarterback rating.

Burrow was the best quarterback in my league last year. But think about this, in an offensive league. And they didn't make the playoffs. They didn't make it. That's almost John impossible in the NFL in 2024-25. If you're quarterback, I mean, you don't even have to have a great quarterback. You can have a quarterback having a great year, Sam Darnold. You're going to win 13, 12, 13, 14 games.

They didn't make the playoffs. And the reason they didn't make the playoffs, so you say, well, it's the coach. Well, then fire it. Well, they won't do that because you'd have to pay out a couple of years of the contract. Is as we, so Trey Hendrickson, they literally, I think there are 30 second in quarterback pressures without Trey Hendrickson. Like, he is their pass rush. And they're, I mean, he's it. He's the pass rush.

And they're, I mean, listen, Philadelphia can get pressure on the quarterback with or without Jalen Carter. Jalen Carter is the game changer. He's like one of one, his body type, his quickness. Hendrickson's not great against the run, but he is their pass rush. But this is like the fourth straight year. There's a contract squabble here. There's third straight year. Do you think if Cincinnati doesn't make the playoffs again and will give Burrow another

great year because he's a great player, do you think Burrow would just say, just go scorched earth and say, because I do. I think Joe is bright, self-aware. You're starting to see him now do stuff in Paris in the off-season. He is so frustrated with the organization, he gets away from it. Like, he goes abroad. He's not going to stay in Ohio. I think they're the fascinating team.

If Cincinnati misses the playoffs, I think Joe Barone as representatives may get ugly. The problem is we've seen how Mike Brown operates in that scenario. He just tells you to kick rocks with Carson, Palmer. He's done it this offseason. He's done it in years past. I think they, like the Bears last year, it's like you should have fired Iber Flutes. You could have hired Mike Vrable and you're probably a playoff team and Caleb, no one, we're not even talking about it. He's just solid. Right? I just would have worked. And this offseason, the Chargers went through this forever.

Anthony Lynn, Mike McCoy, Brandon Staley, just hire a real coach. What did they finally do? Jim Harbaugh. Who does everyone bought stock in for the last two years? The Chargers. Why? Because they got a real coach. And this is a team. Imagine if they have a real coach. Imagine if they had fired Zach Taylor last year. Like, obviously the Bears being in Chicago is a hard job to pass up, especially they're going to pay you a lot of money. But to coach Joe Burrell? I mean, I'm sorry, like, you're kind of remembered on wins and losses, not just like, well, I coach the Bears. Well, if you lost, no one cares, right? No one's really talking about Matt Maggie, right? He would rather coach Joe Burrow than Mr. Trisky. So does, do they get Ben Johnson? Does Mike Vrable, like, hey, I want

that job over Drake. It's Joe Burrow. So I think that, it's hard to overcome this when you hire cheap coaches. And that's kind of, listen, Zach Taylor's probably a nice guy and, you know, solid NFL mind, but we're not talking John McVeigh, he's not super dynamic. The organization isn't super dynamic,

but you can overcome that. Like, no one ever said that about the Chargers until they got Jim Harbaugh. And then Jim Harba said, The list of you want me? I need X, Y, and Z, and now they're paying big money for all these people, and you feel good about them.

But the difference is the L.A. market and the deal that Dean Spanos has you know, like the dollar a year lease, is they are swimming in cash because the L.A. market drives so much revenue. Cincinnati doesn't. Their game day revenues near the bottom of the league. So Brown won't pay $15 million for a coach and $24 million for a staff. I don't think they'll pay half that. Whereas Spanos can go, listen, SOFI is a bank. SoFi is unbelievable. If they won't, Joe Burroughs got to ask out then soon, you know, or their team. good enough, they can overcome it. But if that's the case, they go 9 and 8 and they miss it again.

It's clear their coaching staff sucks. They fire them. And then next year, whoever the hot guy is, they end up with a third-tier guy. It's like, you've got to get out because this is, we've seen this song and dance. I saw Antonio Gates pointed Philip Rivers. Let's face it, I mean, they didn't exactly have the greatest coaches a lot of their prime. I mean, can you imagine if those two guys would have had a Sean McVe at Kyle Shanahan and Kevin O'Connell, who knows the way we talk about that run of like, I remember those four, out of the last seven years, the charges have been in the championship game and made a couple Super Bowls. And that's the difference of just like, oh, that one time Joe Burrow made the

Super Bowl. Or he's going competing to go to the Super Bowl every single year. So you would have to short the Browns, or excuse me, the Bengals, because usually an owner. He's old guy like Jerry. I've known a lot of older businessmen that usually don't become more open-minded in their mid-70s. That's not how it works. So this is not changing with the Brown family. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays, and firing off a few bets, all with Draft King's Sportsbook. As the season heats up, so do the bets. And Draft King Sportsbook has you covered. Home run props, odds boosts, whether you're chasing dingers, jumping in midgame, midgame bets are great.

There's always action to be had. So if you've never been on baseball before, it's really easy. Pick a guy to hit a home run. Hammer some live odds midgame. Or you can just ride with your team and hope for the best. No spreadsheets, just vibes and dingers. Here's something special for first-timers. New Draft King's customers, you know the rule.

Bet five bucks and get $150 in bonus bets instantly. So just download the Draft King Sportsbook app. Please use the code. You've got to use this code to get the deal. Colin, C-O-L-I-N. You've got $150 bucks. Bonus bets, betting just five. Only on Draft Kings.

The crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 877-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-6-7-369. In Connecticut, help is available for Problem gambling, call 888-7-8-8-9-77-7-7 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario.

New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name,

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I,

competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So just from afar, you know, you have to be careful about OTAs and mini camps and camps.

So the mica thing from afar feels like a circus, but when you're covering it, does it feel like a circus? Yeah. I mean, I, I'm not. I've seen a circus and it involved Terrell Owens and his arrival here and the cryo chamber or whatever he had, the barometric pressure that he brought out, all the weird stuff he had. That was circus-like. But yeah, this is, it's a circus from the outside and here because you have the star player out there. Yesterday I got out early to practice and watched him.

and he did not wear his team issued jersey, which Schadenheimer wanted him to wear. And then they went and talked to him and convinced him to put on his jersey. But I'm just, no matter what's happening in camp, it, it's like looms over everything. And so I have been at camp before when there's a big thing going on or a huge trade. I remember the Eagles beat the Cowboys to Oshamwa, you know, the big, the cornerback that not Omde Ocemoa one year, and boy, Jerry, beating over that deal because he was trying to get a deal. And that was all happening in real time,

and we watched it all happening. And this is a little bit like that, and that daily, we're spending as much time with our cameras and our eyes on Micah as we are, what's happening on the field. It's too bad because I think while Micah and Schottenheimer have really developed a nice rapport,

I feel like it's overshadowing. and somewhat undermining his whole operation? Well, I mean, lost in all of it is the fact that George Pickens, a really difficult guy to cover. I mean, he's a very gifted guy. Emotional, can be juvenile. But with C.D. Lam and George Pickens, just in terms of pure talent, those are tremendously gifted receivers. What are we getting from that side of the football, football-related, Dac, C.D. and Pickens? You know, I would say, and we had a good long visit with Pickens yesterday,

doing our Doomsday podcast with Ed Warder, and you talk about a guy who is in heaven. I mean, it's remarkable. And he and CD together, it's the best duo they've had in many years. You know, CD and Amari Cooper were together. I think there's the potential because now CD's older and he's become a superstar, and Pickens is in such a good headspace because he needed to get out of Pittsburgh. It's a contract year. It's just like the opposite of Micah's thing. Micah is just this, all this drama. George could not be happier, and he believes that he's in, you know, I know we go back and forth on what Dat Prescott is,

but what Dak Prescott is is way better than anything the Steelers have had the past three seasons. And so pick up to the oldest yesterday. He said, I'm going to go for 1,500 yards this season. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't doubt it. Because one thing they're trying to do is instead of just throwing fades and vertical routes and go routes, because they're hitting him on bubble screens, drags, crossers. And I even watched him yesterday. There was something the Cowboys did on a rub route to get CD open.

I mean, I'm just telling you, this guy is the happiest guy in camp. like that. I came away from that George Pickens, Zerbue thinking, I have not, you know, T.O. is always brooding and weird. And again, I had a really rough relationship with him and all that. But this guy is just, beaming. Now, get it. Let's see how he is when they don't throw to him for a whole game or something like that. But right now, man, those connections look good. And what it's done, it's freed up whoever's going to be third wide receiver. Jalen Tolbert, Mingo. Jalen Brooks, like those guys now have less pressure on them. And like yesterday, two of those guys made like incredible circus catches. And I just think they have less pressure because they,

you have two stars and they can just go be, that's what Aikman always used to tell me, is that he cared more about the third receiver than he did the second receiver. And what it was is he just felt like with Alvin Harper and Michael, they paid so much attention that Kelvin Martin was his favorite guy because he knew he was always going to be open. So anyway, but I would say right now the receiving receivers plus the quarterback, that's a very positive thing about this camp. Well, the Live Tour makes it stop in Chicago, just part of the journey of Live and its unique style and its popularity.

And anybody that listens to me knows that I have supported the Live Tour from the beginning. I never loved the way the PGA Tour, which was officially a charity, treated some of its golfers. And I had said for years that Greg Normans and Phil Mickelson's had verbally come out and said they were disappointed. And so when they left, I supported them and still do. Kevin Knaw also made that decision. And, you know, when I defended live golfers, one of the things I said was, you know, these guys grew up wanting to be on the PTA tour. They dreamt of the U.S. Open and Pebble Beach and the Masters.

So this was a hard decision. A lot of people looked at the dollars and said, well, it's easy. No, when you have a dream and you land it, it's hard to separate you from that dream. Do you remember, Kevin, the day, the week, the car ride, when you and your family decided, I'm going to leave the PGA tour, and do you remember the emotional moment of that, the epiphany? Yes, I do. It was an uneasy decision. I thought about it for for weeks.

I discussed it with my team, my family. And I haven't had to talk with Jay Monaghan before I left. I literally called them, you know, when I had the offer and I had the contract. And I weighed a bunch of options. But at the time, there were some of the things that some of the players would have wanted to see changing the PGA tour, the direction of the PGA tour wanted to go. and none of those things were happening. And when the lead was forming and the offers were going out, and it was a great opportunity for me because I played the PGA tour for 19 years.

And I loved every minute of it. And I was grateful to be there. I enjoyed it. It was a great platform for me to play. And I'm grateful and thankful. But when this opportunity came along to play this team style with individual team, play around the world and at the same time

have some security not that I didn't with the PGA Tour I was pretty successful out there as well but it felt like it was a new challenge and it was exciting and a lot of the great names of the game of the golf were joining and I wanted to be a part of it I wanted to be a part of this new adventure

and that's the reason why I made the job you know I think they're initially in like any change in life there's animosity. People don't like change. In America, 40% of Americans never live outside of the area code they were born in. Isn't that crazy? So when there was change, I remember going on the air and saying, yeah, there's going to be some animosity. There's going to be some emotion with it. Do you think that's dissipated over the last year that that initial shock is now, well, I can watch to Shambo at this tournament, I can watch Kevin Nah here, is that there's a realization that

this is what's happening in all business. Yeah, I think in the beginning, you know, like you said, people are not comfortable with change. And when we were making this jump, you know, the PGA tour, a lot of the media, you know, they said it's not going to happen. They've got to fold in six months, four months, you know, it's never going to last. But we've, the league has proven that we're sticking around. And, you know, and when our players, you know, Brooks won a major, Bryson won a major, when, you know, playing live. And we're, and these guys are still playing well in major championship and showing good performance and watching us grow. They're starting to realize that we're not going, we're sticking around. And that's at the same time when the PG tour is

asking for investment from PIF, then, you know, all those, you know, attacks of, you know, towards the players that made the first jump is kind of it's been silenced a little bit I've always loved Phil Mickelson and I read a I don't think there's a book about him I don't think he loves the book but I loved him more when I read the book because he's so unapologetically

Phil Nicholson and there was a point in his life he probably he probably ate a little too much he was a little more obnoxious with tour members Mickleson's a character but what I love about him he leans into it now you're getting the older more mature wiser

Phil Mickelson have you watched him I guess have you seen the change in Phil in the last 20 years when you've been around him ever played with him played against him have you seen it?

Yeah I've seen skinny Phil shot pill gambling film drinking Phil but he's been nothing but great to me. The first time I played with him, I was 21 years old. We played in the final group. That's the first time I played in the final group at the Phoenix Open. He ended up winning the tournament. I finished second. And he's been nothing but great to him. You can always go to win, ask for any advice, whether it's golf game, life, anything, meeting you want. He would

give you his time, his sincerity. He's been nothing to create. I think he is the same way right now to all the younger kids out here. I think he's a great leader. Like whether, I don't, not obviously, you know, you can't please everybody. But a lot of the people out here respect him, and I personally respect him, and I'm a big fan of Phil. And I think what he's done for the game of golf, we had to be thankful for it. I was not mature enough at 22, 23 to be like a professional quarterback in the NFL, you know, the leader of a billion dollar franchise.

You guys are not on a team necessarily, although you are, the Ironheads on the Lib Tour now. But Bryson DeShambo is a fascinating guy. I didn't love him when he came out. I didn't like it. You know, the 13 pieces of bacon, the nine protein shakes. I'm like, this feels like he's selling me something. It's too obnoxious. He pivoted over the last two years.

I find him incredibly likable now. And I go back to, well, he was young. He was a good looking, big testosterone. Have you noticed his personality? He feels a little humbled, a little more, a little wiser. But I find him now incredibly likable. And I didn't four years ago. I always joke to him.

I was nice to him before you became a big star. And before you were likeable. I always liked him from Bay One. You know, I remember talking to him before when he wasn't playing so good. And, you know, when he was doing the side straddle and I'll come talk to him about on the putting, bringing into what his theories were. And I played with him in a QBE team play, a shark shootout. What year was this?

I can't even remember, 2017 or 18, whatever it was, we teamed up, we finished third. And I got to know him pretty well then how he played the game and what his, you know, all these calculations that he made. And it was fascinating. I mean, he would calculate puts off the green from what the fairies were running at Stim. And then from the green on to the hole, that how many. many feet that is in that stamp and you would with the slope and you would say this putts playing 47 feet and he hit it like perfect speed or make it and it was incredible um but um i think

people got to know him and watched and mature and grow up and and became this likable um interesting character um and we need more characters like that in the golf game whether you like him or not and i think most people do like him um he's he's an interesting guy and what he's done with his body and his game, the transformation that he's gone through. It's incredible and he's an incredibly talented player. I always enjoyed my conversations with him. But look, you know, when you're 21, 22 and you're a millionaire, you know, you think you have world by, it's, you know, it's a little bit of growing.

Sure. I bet that was the same way when I was championed. I turned pro at 17 and got on the tour when I was 20, you know, when you're 20 and, but you need a little bit of that to make it. So I think if you kind of look at that and get to understand the guy and get to understand the players, I mean, we're no, we're much better than football and other sports. I mean, we're much more mature and more well-behaved, I'd say. But it's, I think we watched him grow up. There's a legendary piece of footage. I'm talking to Kevin Naa about you and Tiger Woods when your speed play after you hit the put and he does the same thing. Tiger, there's only two athletes in my lifetime, Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, that literally changed how I watched TV. I would cancel stuff on a Sunday to watch Tiger Woods.

Yeah. Do you think that was it, you know, it was sort of, it wasn't obviously pre-Internet, but it was pre-Tic-Tac. Golf felt, those games felt, those tournaments with Tiger, it just felt like otherworldly. You think golf will ever have that again? Yeah, I think so. I think Bryson is as closest to the, you know, the excitement. I think Rory's pretty exciting. I think Roms pretty exciting.

And Joaquin's becoming that player as well. I think there's different characters of the game that bring that kind of energy. Obviously, Tiger was, you know, his dominating in his, you know, his power and it's blowing the field away. And, you know, even though he's four back with nine to play, you're like, oh, he's going to win. You know, he's going to go on this crazy run. And I remember watching as a kid and I'm, I mean, you know, being a fan of Tiger, it's incredible. I mean, but I think there are characters that can follow his footsteps or become maybe not that Tiger Woods icon level, but, you know, up close to that level.

And we can have three or four guys kind of equal Tiger, you know what I mean? But I think golf has become more entertaining, more exciting than before. Back in 90s, I grew up. watching golf, you know, in the 90s, you know. And, you know, I became a pro in the early 2000. And I played all these with these guys on a senior tour that's playing now. And I think golf has become more entertaining. I mean, there's more characters of the game. I mean, you got, you know, Bryce and that bombs in cuts corners. You got rovary also, you know, Scotty Shuffa getting arrested. I mean, there's, I think it's entertaining. I mean, you know, we have some John. They, you know,

the, you know, the former John Deleys of the guys right now, look, I think golf isn't a good place, except this division. I think once we find a way to get the players back together more often, I think golf has got to go up another level. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it out. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. week my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know.

I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments set to find Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.